Discipline

As Yogi Berra says, “Think! How the hell are you gonna think and hit at the same time?”

Good stuff, Chris. I think Tech might be able to do some damage against UT with some of their isolation packages.

I see a couple of three step drops with Crab going through the seam going for big yardage due to inexperience.

Additionally, you’d better hope we don’t give Mack a case of the claps.

CA, you failed to meet your bear/cub/trout quota and have been reassigned to siberia. Hava a good life and watch out for the polar bears.

Who are our pros in the secondary? The starters I see are Chykie and Earl. The Backups I see playing in the pros are Aaron Williams and Curtis Brown. I think Blake Gideon is limited athletically and Deon Beasley has been a disappointment.

You specifically used all of those bear analogies to spite me, didn’t you? Damn you.

I’m pretty sure it was Palmer that got beat on that touchdown. Cu. Brown was on the outside covering Bryant if I’m not mistaken. But maybe I am.

It was Palmer.

Yeah. He has really played below expectations the past couple games. If he isn’t 100% I see no reason to not give Aaron Williams some time.

In Palmer’s defense, we left him manned up with no safeties in the middle of the field. They had vacated to double Bryant and Pettigrew.
 
That’s a throw most QBs can make on Eric Berry, much less Ryan Palmer.

Nobody throws on Eric Berry. Nobody.

All I saw was a 3. Guess it was 13.

OK, instead of a rookie mistake, he just is terrible.

They’re having a “Best Costume” contest at the Halloween party I’m going to. I have a pair of bear-paw slippers, complete with fake claws, that I’ll wear.

I’m going as “The Bearfoot Contestant”.

I hope you start a blog and steven comments on it.

Dang. That was a great pic of a man fighting a grizzly with a knife.

“Who are our pros in the secondary? The starters I see are Chykie and Earl. The Backups I see playing in the pros are Aaron Williams and Curtis Brown. I think Blake Gideon is limited athletically and Deon Beasley has been a disappointment.”-Groundhog Day

 Both Browns, Aaron Williams, Earl Thomas, Scott, and Wells all have pro potential. Earl Thomas is prob the only one without pro size, but his freakish athletic ability can make up for it(see Bob Sanders!).

People still disrespecting Gideon because he is white. Where have you seen this “limited athleticism”?

P,

I hear you on Ben Wells but he is buried deep on depth chart. Maybe there is something going on that we don’t know about.

Hookah,

Blake has played well this year. He is a very smart player and can hit, but he was abused in the Okie State game and I think his upside from here on out is limited. Only time will tell. He is certainly no Michael Griffin.

Blake won’t be the first freshman starter to be abused nor the last. You are right only time will tell but (as Hookah says above) this growing mantra of “limited athleticism” does smell.

On the TD pass on Palmer we were not specifically doubling Pettigrew and Bryant. We were simply playing man under cover two. This gave us the option two provide help if a jump ball to either was tossed. It was actually a very good call. Where we got beat on the play is Palmer lost his, or never had, inside leverage making it impossible for the safety to help while allowing the receiver to use his body to shield Palmer from the ball.

We are not by design surrendering the middle of the field because the leverage on the slots should eliminate the inside release. Norton is locked on the back as he should be… i.e not Pettigrew or a WR. The line is playing with two 9’s a 3 tech, and a nose. Norton is positioned over the bubble just as he should be and shifts over the back as the cadence commences. He locked on the back in man there was no reason for him to stay in the middle and drop back and play the QB’s eyes unless the back stayed in to block.

In theory we had two free safeties on that play. It was a good play call against our coverage but two things stick out, Palmer, as mentioned before, lost his inside leverage and Earl Thomas is in no mans land. Thomas peddled himself out of position to make a play on either dig route. He should be playing off the Qb’s eyes which appear to be looking at the slot guy the whole way.

In my opinion you will see a lot of two shell this week, obviously trying to create pressure with the front four, whether we be in Dime or Nickel packages. The key will be route recognition by the younger guys… One of my coaches in college happened to be a grad assistant and student assistant at UT and said they would begin breaking down Tech film two weeks before the game due to the amount of formations and personnel packages that they run. With all the smoke and mirrors though you can only run so many route combinations. The young guys need to remember (as you stated) for every under there is an over and for every out there is an in. Find the receiver in your zone and get to him, don’t watch the QB or he will pick us a part.

Thanks, Fico. Excellent contribution. I had assumed what the empty middle was about rather than actually go back and look at it, as you clearly did.
 
Nice contribution.

“We are not by design surrendering the middle of the field because the leverage on the slots should eliminate the inside release.”

Yes, which was what was disappointing. He had safety help if Bollin turned to the corner or ran anything other than an inside break and he still got beat.

It’s those little things that matter.

Also, you cannot convince me that both safeties weren’t told specifically to watch Bryant and Pettigrew first and foremost.

8 Straight and Hookah,

I go by what I see. I have never said that jordan shipley lacks athleticism because he is white. In fact, his athleticism is very underrated. He will be a pro player and a long one at that. Quan Cosby while he has great hands and is an integral part of this team should not be returning kickoffs as he lacks the burst of speed to do so. I think Gideon lacks the true upside that some others on our roster possess. I think he can hit, but coverage will never be his true strength. I liken him to a Marcus Griffin but he probably possesses better instincts. Again, only time will tell. There is also no doubt from what I’ve witnessed this year that Aaron Williams has unbelievable talent with a nasty streak to go along with it. We need to find a place in the secondary for him. The same goes for Keenan Robinson at LB.

I am gonna have to come to Groundhog Day’s defense on this one. I think I have stated this at some point before.

 Thomas has shown the ability to explode to a ball in the air.

 Chykie has shown that he can get beat on a couple occasions, but had the speed to recover and make a play on the ball.

 Curtis did last game vs Dez Bryant, although he did get beat a couple times.

 AW made a great play on a ball against Arkansas.

 Gideon is the only guy that I can’t recall making a play on a ball when it was just him, and the receiver. So I see where Groundhog is coming from. It has nothing to do with race. Maybe he just hasn’t gotten his feet under him yet. I am not sure. I just know when I watch the games over and over, he just doesn’t pop off the screen. What I mean by that, for example, is this……….

 When Gresham caught that pass on the busted coverage, and Palmer streaked down the field, and hit him just as he crossed the goal line I asked myself, “Who was that!” Palmer showed me he could run there, just as Thomas did on the deep ball he picked off with a diving catch.

 Once again, this has nothing to do with race. The guy is a freshman, so that all may come. I am just saying I haven’t seen it yet.

“Yes, which was what was disappointing. He had safety help if Bollin turned to the corner or ran anything other than an inside break and he still got beat.

It’s those little things that matter."

 A CB’s dream is when they are told to squat on a route because they have help over top. That is when most INTs come. You would think Palmer, the vet, would be licking his chops.

I agree with p. Though I’d also add that we’re not just talking speed, but ball skills. Blake has adequate speed for Cover 2.
 
As for Gideon’s upside, it may not be as limited as you think Groundhog. Blake’s weight has actually fallen to around 190 or so and he’s a true freshman. He strikes me as someone who will be fanatical in the weight room and on the track. I expect him to carry 205-210 with an increase in speed. At that weight some of those nice little pops will turn into knockouts and he can create real value.

“The guy is a freshman, so that all may come.”

“At that weight some of those nice little pops will turn into knockouts and he can create real value.”

Well put. I don’t disagree with the analyst. He may not be a Michael Griffin at this stage but who knows where he will be in three years. I wouldn’t bet against Gideon. Ask Henry Melton what a few years of development did for him.

P: For a play on the ball by Gideon, try the Arkansas game @ 5:03 in the 2nd.

As for Gideon generally, I think it’s conceded all around that he gets the game as well as any and can hit; the crux of the biscuit is the adequacy of his speed.

From what I’ve seen of him, he’s got very respectable straight-line speed, even in the context of this uber-athletic backfield. He’s run down so many explosive plays from behind this year that I wouldn’t want to go back and count ‘em all. Granted, he’s a safety and that’s a big part of his job description, but he’s running with the other horses in this defensive backfield to get to the ball carrier on all of those explosive plays, and he’s the one making the stops, so it certainly doesn’t appear to me that he lacks overall speed. In that regard, I think the comparison to Marcus Griffin is not well-taken. Watching Marcus trail the ball carrier into the end zone on explosive plays last year was painfully routine.

The real question in terms of his speed is his acceleration out of the break. Honestly, I’d have to agree that I’ve yet to see him tear the soles out of his shoes with a break on the ball, but I’m not sure his role in the scheme puts him in that position as often as the other DBs. I know they’ve started referring to the safeties as left and right, but I don’t see them playing mirror-image roles. I halfway suspect the conversation went something like this: “Gideon, I’m cutting these other hosses loose, and you’re my last line of defense. If an explosive play scores, I’m going to blame you. Then I’m going to kill you.”

Gideon keeps the plays in front of him as well as any young safety I’ve ever seen, and that makes him the perfect fit in the aggressive, athletic defensive backfield we’ve got.

Now, that’s not to say that I necessarily believe he has inadequate acceleration and closing speed. The notion that he’s just a smart guy with marginal athleticism is not really borne out by his play. He’s simply around the ball too much for a guy whose only tool is savvy. Also, go back and watch his break on the screen play in the first quarter of the FAU game @ 12:13. That’s not the play of a guy with questionable acceleration. Does he close like Michael Huff? Of course not. Does he close like a very good D-1 safety. Yeah, I think he does.

Finally, I like Scipio’s last hypothetical. Gideon’s got the frame to carry 210 and maintain his speed, and at that size he should scare the dog shit out of any rational human unfortunate enough to pull a crossing route in front of him. And not because Gideon’s got a good handle on Xs and Os, but because he’s liable to get there on time and sever said receiver’s spine when he arrives.

P,

This wasn’t necessarily a situation for Palmer to squat on the route… in this particular coverage when on the inside receiver, Palmer must maintain his leverage especially when he is playing off like he is. He is playing off so that he and the corner will be on different levels if they try to pick Bryant free.

I digress…the reason he must maintain his leverage and play his man and not squat on the route is due to the fact that the corner should be paying with outside leverage (ideally funneling the receivers to Earl Thomas). If Bryant were to go inside to the post and #8 outside to the corner with Palmer squatting waiting for the inside cut of #8 you would have Thomas having to make a guess leaving Bryant and or #8 wide open at the post or in the corner.

Now if by squat you mean being conscious and ready for inside cut by maintaining leverage then I agree with you. In man coverage especially around the goal area leverage because the most important factor as you can be beat before the ball is even snapped… as was Palmer on this play.

Fico:

Thomas was focusing on doubling Bryant. Muschamp made the point several times after the game that he was always providing safety help on Bryant to prevent the big play.

Gideon was covering Pettigrew, right? Gideon was lined up even with Pettigrew. If the LB on that side was focusing on the TB (as you said), there was nobody else to cover Pettigrew.

Gundy simply recognized that the safeties were going to focus on Bryant and Pettigrew (safe bet). This left Palmer 1 on 1 with a tall receiver. This was an extreme mismatch (look at the picture to see how tiny Palmer looks compared to the guy he is covering).

OSU was going to complete that easy pass 90% of the time. Even if Palmer is able to get in front of the receiver, OSU just tosses it over his head. The only help that Palmer was going to get might be from an LB dropping back and tipping the pass.

Fico,

 “Now if by squat you mean being conscious and ready for inside cut by maintaining leverage then I agree with you.”

 That is exactly what I am talking about. In order to maintain the inside, you must aggressively “cut off” the receiver. If you play your man honestly while giving him a cushion on the 10 yard line, you are gonna get beat every time, and that is exactly what happened to Palmer. Thus the “squatting” reference. In my opinion it is easier to sit on the inside, and force a throw to the outside, than to give away an inside throw. The inside throw is easier, and affords a flat powerful delivery, that a DB is hard-pressed to defend. The outside throw can be recovered on, and is the kind of throw that you have to feather in there, especially from such a short distance. This affords the DB with speed a fighting chance to knock it away.

  So, in my honest opinion, the only way to gain leverage on a route that short is by alignment. So you “squat” on the inside, making the QB feel uncomfortable about taking a chance throwing there. The same principle as denying the ball in basketball. The proper D for that situation is for both guys to take hard inside technique, with Thomas sitting over top directly between them. Force them to go vertical for a completion. In this case both DBs allowed the receiver to take the underneath route.

P:
BTW, I remember that play you are talking about where Palmer flew across the field to chop down huge Gresham. It was an amazing play. I was asking, “Who is that guy?”.

Gideon hasn’t actually wowed me, either. I have assumed it is because I am not watching him closely enough. Sometimes the guy you don’t notice is taking care of business.

Re: Palmer coverage on the TD play, Palmer was on the outside, right? I wish I could see the video but I’m guessing that Palmer’s guy cut behind Bryant and Bryant picked off Palmer partially so that Palmer never had a chance to take away the inside route.

Fico:
On second thought, I realize that it is possible that Thomas was supposed to double Palmer’s guy (I’d have to see the video again to know for sure) but I would bet that he did not realize it (he was nowhere close).

The vast majority of the game Muschamp had one safety dedicated to Bryant.

Maybe because the field was so short at that point, Muschamp might have switched up coverage. Counter intuitive but possible. Since Thomas was nowhere close to covering Palmer’s receiver, I’m pretty sure he did not get the memo.

Speaking of communications foulups, no huddle offenses not only make it difficult to substitute but sometimes even make it difficult to change the defensive assignments.

If you try to change the assignments right before the ball is snapped, you run the risk of having to defend while you are still have not completed physically moving into the correct position.

I watch Muschamp and Akina on the sidelines and they are yelling like crazy to communicate with their guys on the field. But if the field is noisy (like it is at a home game when the opposition has the ball), it has to be super difficult to hear what the DC is saying.

On offense, I noticed that GD has portable electric signs which flash numbers (and of course everybody else uses body language). Either way, it is a visually based communication system.

Maybe some of the “screwups” by safeties are really just communications issues between the DC and the field.

Kafka,

 The video is up top.

 Both Palmer and Brown are playing inside technique by alignment, with Thomas sitting a little further inside on the hash. At the snap #8 drives Palmer into a backpedal, then snaps of a post at the 5 yard mark. Palmer tries to maintain inside position, but it is too late! Game…..set….match.

 The only way to win on a play like this is to literally SIT on the the receivers inside at the goal line. You have to force the play in front of you(2 yards short of the goal line), or behind you(forcing Zac to feather something soft over top). Palmer’s backpedal is what killed him. Force him to have to flatten out his route a little earlier. With this little space to work in, if he goes vertical Zac will have little time to deliver the football behind Palmer, barring some acrobatic catch. There is just not a lot of room to see a guy open, and deliver the football before a DB can recover, or the back of the endzone is upon you. The last thing you can do is give up any easy pitch and catch. Make him have to drop one softly down the hatch.

A fine example of that play is slight overthrow to Chase Coffman, where Thomas undercut him, and Daniel tried to feather one over top of an outstretched Thomas, but it was a little too tall for Coffman. In stark contrast Thomas was behind Coffman on a post, and even though he was there, and tried his best to get to the ball, Coffman established position and got it.

 I am a firm believer in forcing a QB to make the most difficult throw in every situation you find yourself in. If your opponent is on the far right hash, you flood that side of the formation, and single the guy on the far left. Press cover with aggressive inside technique, and tell your DB to bail at the snap. It your opponent is gonna complete anything it will have to be a deep out…… the hardest throw in football…… because he isn’t getting inside, and since you are bailing at the snap, he isn’t beating you deep.