Umm, Yes, Carolina is real good

Where does this Carolina team rank all-time, Trips?
 
I don’t mean their seasonal body of work necessarily – I mean the healthy Ty Lawson led UNC team that just played six games in the NCAA Tournament and whipped everyone.
 
Pretty high up there, in my estimation.

There is a reason that everyone thought they were going to go undefeated this year despite tough competition throughout their schedule. Everyone is seeing that reason tonight. I agree they are pretty high up there. Although I don’t think they are as good as the last UNC national title team.

Tyler Hansbrough is the Tim Tebow of college basketball. Fortunately for North Carolina, Ty Lawson is the Percy Harvin.

Yep, my guesses the night before flying to Vegas for the first weekend of the tourney finally bit me. Had MSU won, I’d be a winner in my bracket after picking all Elite 8 teams, and I’d have won $766. Oh well, someone that picked the title game correctly (MSU vs UNC) won it, so I can dig that.

Yeah, they are pretty good.

Trips – I jokingly remarked to my brother that I hated March Madness because you have teams who have magical games (MSU over UCONN) and then you end up with the wheelbarrow full of shit like tonight.

On paper, how would the UCONN / UNC tilt have played out?

REALLY good.

Sailor:

To reach the NCAA Tournament semi-finals, Michigan State beat the Pac 10 Tournament Champion, the Big 12 regular season champion, and #1 seed and Big East Tournament Champion, Louisville. In the semi-final, Michigan State didn’t shoot particularly well and attempted 13 fewer free throws than UConn. Michign State defeated the Huskies because it fought them to a standstill on the boards, outran them down the floor, and pestered them relentlessly on defense.

Michigan State may not have been the second best collection of talent in the tournament, but it was clearly the second best team. And to suggest that metaphysics were required for such a team to reach the finals, and to suggest by implication that UNC might have caught a break by playing such a team before the largest partisan crowd in NCAA history is asinine.

Have Ty Lawson and Sherron Collins ever been seen in the same room together?

Saw on the ESPN Bottom Line this AM that the ‘96 Kentucky team is the only to have beaten their opponents by a larger overall margin than this year’s UNC squad.

I would like to have seen this Carolina team go against a lineup of Dexter Pittman, Kevin Durant, DJ Augustin, Damion James, and AJ Abrams.

Sigh …

Question to the other callers: how is it that teams like UConn, UNC, and Duke get good to great players to stay in school for three or four years and we watch guys come and go? We always seem one piece short.

Thanks, I’ll hang up and listen.

Because as good as their players are, ours are twice as good and NBA ready…nobody on UNC, Duke, or UConn compares with Augustin and Durant. It’s not the same universe.

ummmm
maybe that’s true of Durant, but he was a once in a generation talent.

That
’96 UK team had even more depth, amazingly, than this Carolina team. Their 2nd unit could have made a nice tourney run. I think UK would have won that one.

Soldier -

They beat the Pac 10 tourney champion? Holy shit – I hadn’t realized this. Thems some bona fides.

Seriously, not disparaging MSU at all. I think they were playing great ball and are a very good team and they won the games that matter. They deserved to be there.

All I am saying is I feel like if they play UCONN 10 times, they lose seven. I think they shot the ball far better than they normally do during this tourney stretch.

I just feel like a UCONN/UNC match up would have been a much better game, one I would have liked to see. The minute MSU beat UCONN, I knew UNC was going to easily win their next two games, which they did.

Is that asinine?

No it’s not assinine, Sailor. I posted pre-final four that MSU and Nova had done as much as they could.

MSU managed to catch a troubled UCONN team, but there was no way anyone was going to win the title but UNC or UCONN. They just have much better players than MSU or Nova. I know once in a blue moon some average team will win it, but it doesn’t happen but once every 10-20 years. Great players win in college basketball. UCONN and UNC had the great players, one of them was going to win.

For all the upsets in the tourney, the team that wins the title is the team with 3-5 NBA players on its roster. If James comes back, that could be us next year.

Sailor:

Pardon me for confronting your supposition with facts.

“I think they shot the ball far better than they normally do during this tourney stretch.”

For the sesason, Michigan State shot 45% from the field and 35% beyond the 3 point line.

Against Kansas, MSU shot 39% and 33%.

Against UL: 46% & 50%. (At their seasonal 3 point rate, they still win
                   by half a dozen).

And more to the point of your post, against UConn, MSU shot 43% and 31%.

And to answer your question, yes, it is asinine to maintain a position which is propped up by supposition contrary to the best available evidence in an effort to retrieve an untenable bias, and it is particularly so when written in a smug and condescending tone. It is the same toxic brew of sophisticated horseshit and hubris which the coaches employed to elevate Oklahoma above Texas in the BCS poll which preceeded the Big XII Championship Game.

Re: stats – Fair enough, Soldier. That was slothful on my part. It did seem that they shot the ball a bit better. They sure as shit couldn’t throw it in the lake last night.

At any rate all I’m trying to say is that I think UCONN / UNC would have been a better game. I thought UCONN’s front line hosses might have been an interesting counterpoint to UNC.

Sailor:

I happily concede that point.

Supposition or not, UNC was a bad bad matchup for Michigan State. MSU has little athletic size and exactly 1 player that is a threat to defeat perimeter pressure and get to the goal. The result, the Spartans were unable to compete on the glass to close out possessions on defense, and other than Kalin Lucas, Sparty couldn’t hurt Carolina’s gambling pressure by getting to the rack.

Not coincidentally, matchups were the reason MSU was able to beat KU. Walton was the perfect cover for taking the Jayhawk’s catalyst, Sherron Collins out of the equation and thereby shutting off any easy offense KU would enjoy. The UCONN win was very impressive.

As for UNC, the one team that could have given UNC a run was Louisville. They were big, deep, and athletic enough inside to be able to compete and get a stalemate on the glass. They also had a number of skilled wings and guards to punish Carolina’s m2m pressure, and the Louisville press would have served to slow down UNC’s ability to break off of makes. It would have also been interesting to see the toll the press would have taken on Lawson, the Heels’ only true ballhandler. On the flip side, Louisville’s such a mediocre shooting team that they were destined to lose to somebody. Kind of like Texas in that respect.

As for UCONN, it would have been a better game to be sure, but without Dyson in the lineup, it would have been tough for the Huskies to dictate tempo enough to allow Thabeet and Adrien to stay in the game. MSU ran UCONN out of the gym, Carolina probably would have as well.

Trips:

You wrote, “As for UCONN, it would have been a better game to be sure,………” and followed that with this sentence, “MSU ran UCONN out of the gym, Carolina probably would have as well.”

You see the problem here. You maintain that Carolina would have likely run UConn out of the gym immeditely after having written that UConn/Carolina would have been, without question, a better game than MSU/Carolilna.

Perhaps the problem is that we interpret the terms “better game” and " run out of the gym" or the terms “to be sure” and “probably” in a different way.

Otherwise, I wouldn’t take issue with anything you wrote. Your knowledge of the game is vastly superior to my own (trust me on this). I do have a question though, and would appreciate instruction on the matter if you can spare the time.

I have long been under the impression that teams whose default position is unremitting full court pressure are highly susceptible to being taken advantage of by teams that run the floor competently and with authority, because once the press is broken, the floor is spread to open the way for a break opportunity.

A national semi-final game (I think) between Houston and Louisville (either ‘83 or ’84) left this impression on me. Time and again Houston broke the Cardinals’ press and then punished their audacity for having imposed it with thunderous slams at the other end by Young, Anders, Drexler and Olajuwon.

Now the question, and I will gladly sit back and be instructed.

Is it your opinion that Carolina could do to Pitino’s press what Houston did to Crum’s, and if so, would that alter your overall assessment of the Louisville/Carolina matchup?

Soldier, my statement was based more on UCONN’s ability to compete on the glass than their ability to control tempo. If you can’t do either, as Michigan State showed Monday, then you have no shot against a team like the Heels. But to answer your question, yes UCONN’s big men would have struggled to get up and down with UNC. Sorry for the hyperbole.

To answer your last question, I would say, that depends. If Pitino went quick trap for 94 feet for all 40 minutes without varying his pressure, then yes, I think Carolina’s athletes who have high basketball IQ’s would have sliced through the press and finished against it with impugnity. It’s what got Tom Davis’ Iowa teams in trouble and Arkansas’ 40 minutes of hell teams in trouble as well. When these full court pressure squads were matched with equally competent athletes and basketball players, they’d get crushed. Remember Todd Day and Lee Mayberry’s Pig team that got run out of the gym against Vegas? I think it was the game Day took a poke at Larry Johnson. Nice basketball IQ. Problem for the pigs was that it wasn’t in their nature to back off and play softer pressure to control tempo. I think Vegas dropped triple digits on them playing basically 6 guys. Six NBA players, but six guys nonetheless.

But back to your question, the ‘Ville vs. UNC matchup would have been a battle for tempo. The Cardiinals would have wanted a Big East style game, and the Heels would have wanted the game played in the 80’s.

Pitino’s strategy would have probably been to press the Heels with soft trapping three quarter court pressure for most of the game based on the premise of your last question. In other words the quick trap on the inbounds pass on the inbounds that leaves the wide open fast break finishes you alluded to would have been fewer and farther between. Pitino would have likely then backed his token pressure with some zone after UNC crossed half court to slow tempo even more. As a change up Louisville could ratchet up the pressure when Lawson went to the bench, or just as another way to keep the Heels honest after makes, and hopefully cause the Heels to devote more resources to get the ball inbounded which would hopefully make players like Green, Thompson, and Hansbrough pause to recognize what press offense they were in before getting out in the break.

There would have been other nuances to mess with Carolina and their tempo like trapping out of the zone to stay, in Muschamp parlance, multiple.

So, let’s say the Cardinals get the game into the 60’s or 70’s, the big elephant in the room for Louisville is their inability to knock down perimeter shots consistently. And that certainly would have cost them against UNC. Louisville is used to stealing possessions to make up for its lack of shooting by outrebounding you or turning you over. Neither was likely going to happen in a Championship game. Which would have left the Cardinals a shooter’s chance to win the National Championship had everything else been a stalemate.

Thanks for the response. I’d love to see you around more often especially on basketball threads. You pose some good, thought provoking questions and I would say you know the game a little better than you think.

Got it Trips. Thanks a lot. The lesson on full court pressure strategy is the single best explanation on the workings of basketball that I have ever encountered. If this were pay site, I would galdly pay for access.

At the risk of trying your patience, I have another question based on another unsophisticated premise.

It is my impression that this Carolina team is the equal of any since it became common pracctice for underclassmen to go pro very early. I base that view on the premise that this Carolina team could play any other team any type of game it cared to trot out. You want to run? Meet Misters Lawson, Ellington, & Green, You want to bang down low? Let me introduce you to to Misters Hansbro, Davis & Thompson. You want half court offense? Try Hansbro on the low block with Lawson slashing through the lane and Elllington and Green floating about or running around screens on the perimeter while Davis and/or Thompson wait around to clean up any misses. When they were fully focussed and motivted, as they were during the tournament, their defense could match speed with speed on the break, and in the half court, pester the wings, disrupt passing lanes, and shut down driving lanes with Davis and/or Thompson inside. In short, after Dyson went down in February, I didn’t see any team that could match up with Carolina if Lawson were healthy and serving as the engine on offense, meaning that any matchup in the finals was very likely to be a wheelbarrow full of shit.

In the light of all this, your assessmet that only Louisville could have given Carolina a game, and even at that it would have had no better than a shooter’s chance, makes perfect sense.

If all this is so, then this Carolina team was very like the Islander teams of the early 80’s. They could outskate skating teams and then beat them up in the corners or outmuscle teams that liked to grind it out and then outskate them down the ice.

All of which leads to my question, which is the question Scipio led off with in the comments. Where does this Carolina team rank all-time Trips?

I’d rank them right up there with the ‘96 Kentucky squad and the back to back Duke teams. The 1990 UNLV team is the best team I’ve seen in the last 20 years and in my opinion, they are on another planet in the 3 point shot era.

As for best Carolina teams I think this was the best TEAM since Perkins/Jordan 1982 UNC squad. The 2009 squad had more experienced talent than Marvin Williams’ squad. This year’s team would have handled Roy’s first team because they were a better “team”.

The most talented Carolina team since the Jordan/Perkins club was a team that didn’t even win a tilte, the 1993-94 version of the Tar Heels. They returned a core group of 4 that had just won a championship and the Heels recruited so lights out that year that they could have fielded two teams that would have made deep tourney runs.

The Heels started a pair of 7-0 seniors Eric Montross and Kevin Salvodori. Salvadori’s entitled starting spot was just plain stupid in my opinion and I’ll get to that later. Small forward was athletic senior Brian Reese. The backcourt was made up of returning National Championship tandem Donald Williams and Derrick Phelps. Keep in mind that aside from Salvodori, the entire starting lineup from their 92 championship year returned intact. Evidently George Lynch was the straw that stirred the drink because this club went 28-7 and lost in the second round vs. Boston College. Probably because Donald Williams was hurt, but still, this team oozed talent and had no business losing early in the tourney.

Getting back to stupid, here was the second 5 that UNC could have run out there and probably advanced passed the second round. Who would have replaced Kevin Salvadori on your club?

PF Rasheed Wallace, SF Jerry Stackhouse, SG Dante “no socks” Calabria, PG Jeff McInnis, 7-2 Center Serge Zwikker. Yikes.

Again, this team didn’t perform mainly because the “2nd team” would often throttle the first team in practice. That’s tough on team chemistry. If Smith makes Wallace the starter at forward early on and quells the young guns’ micro rebellion, it’s my contention that the Heels go back to back even without Donald Williams. Their talent was undeniable.

Thanks Trips.

George Lynch was a great college player.

Trips,

Do you think that Balbay, if he can improve his shot a little bit, could become a Phelps type player? Great defender who could penetrate.

I would say this team is much less talented than the 05 team also.

But, as far as disparate parts being synchronized perfectly to make a machine whose performance is greater than the sum of said parts, I agree with Trips that this is the best teams since the early 80s.

In other words, these guys really fit together well.

anonymous, sure he can. Look at who Phelps was surrounded by. We might be able to come close and it might free up Doge to do some things. He needs a J at some point though.

I need a J when I watch him shoot free throws. That or some Mescaline. Kind of a theme today.

My question is whether or not this years UNC team was better than either of the two teams in last years championship game? UNC was very impressive in the tournament, but I do think it was a pretty down year overall for talent in the NCAA as a whole.

This championship team (plus Ginyard) got bitch slapped last year by one of at least two teams that were better than them.

Balls,

This championship team didn’t get bitch slapped by anybody. It lost 4 games by a combined total of 16 points. I could stop right there, but I’ve got more to say.

To begin with, maintaining that this year’s Carolina team is last year’s Carolina team, but missing Ginyard, is factually incorrect. In terms of significant constituent parts, this year’s Tar Heels are last year’s Tar Heels minus Ginyard minus Stephenson (and Thomas if you want to quibble) plus Davis plus Frasor. If Davis were to declare for this year’s draft, he would defiitely go first round, might very well be a lottery pick, and might well be a top five pick. He is very, very good. Thomas started ahead of Davis, but in the two tournament games in which teams actually contested Carolina, Davis played more minutes. Trading Stephenson for Davis was a major upgrade to the Carolina roster.

You might downgrade the importance of Frasor’s return (actually, you seem to be completely ignorant of it), but consider the facts. He is a competent point guard who started his freshman year when Carolina upset Duke at Cameron Indoor. In his sophomore year, he gave way to Lawson without a whimper. There’s value in that gesture. He’s an irritating little fucker on defense and has a knack for coming up big when least expected and most needed (in the first half against Duke at Cameron indoor this year, his 3’s kept Carolina in the game). He is adept at running the fast break and has an uncanny ability to anticipate, track, and then capture long rebounds and loose balls (7 rebounds against Villanova in about 20 minutes of playing time). Most importantly, though, Frasor’s return allowed Lawson to grab a breather without the Carolina half court offense going spastic. I could go on about Frasor, but will leave it at that.

Ginyard was missed during the regular season. He started largely because he was willing and able to play-get-in your face defense. He filled a wing nicely on the break, but was no force in the half court offfense. Defensisvely, there was really nothing he could do that Green and Ellington couldn’t when they felt like it, as they demonstrated in the tournament. (OK, maybe that last little bit includes more than a touch of hyperbole to make my point). In short, although Frasor and Ginyard bring different things to the table, Frasor’s return did a lot to offset the loss of Ginyard.

The second problem with your conclusion is analytical in nature. It is the unspoken assumption that the quallity of a team is nothing more than the sum of the physical talents of its constituent parts. If you want to make that argument, fine. I’ll leave the task of demolishing it to someone else, but it’s absolutely the last thing I would expect to be coming out of someone who follows Longhorn football.

Soldier, great points. And to your last point specifically, UNC’s 93-94 team was probably the most talented collection of players 1-10 that college basketball has seen in decades. And they lost 7 games including an early 2nd round exit.

The 2009 Tar Heels were great because they were not only talented, but they meshed well together. Hell, their 3rd and somtimes 4th option Hansbrough was a player of the year candidate and had no problem deferring to more talented players on the team. Contrast that unselfishness with Rasheed Wallace’s malignancy in 1993.

I still think this team pails in comparison to 2001 Duke, 2004 UConn, and 2005 UNC. All those teams had more talent than this UNC team…

Duke 2001-Battier, J. Williams, Dunleavy, Boozer
UConn 2004-Ben Gordon, Emeka Okafor, Charlie Villanueva
UNC 2005-Marvin Williams, Sean May, Rashad McCants, Ray Felton, Rayshawn Terry

In fact, not only were they talented, but they also had upperclassmen leaders. So, this now negates not only UNC 2009’s usual talent advantage, but also their experience advantage. Potentially even more important is the balance that all three of those teams display. Michigan State relies so much on their guards and had no interior defense for the Big Three inside of UNC. Those guys don’t score against Okafor and Villanueva and have a much harder time against the more athletic/talented bigs of Duke and UNC ’05.

Also, I found the defense of Frasor funny. Personally I think you are grasping at straws, Soldier, for a point about 2009 UNC that essentially makes itself because we already know how great they were. IMHO, Frasor is an absolutely horrible college basketball player. He lucks his way in to rebounds and can’t guard higher-level players such as Kalin Lucas. I agree that UNC 2009 is a fantastic “team,” like you guys say. But if you are talking about who will win, I have to disagree.

Just my two cents, fire away :)

Balls,

This championship team didn’t get bitch slapped by anybody. It lost 4 games by a combined total of 16 points. I could stop right there, but I’ve got more to say.

To begin with, maintaining that this year’s Carolina team is last year’s Carolina team, but missing Ginyard, is factually incorrect. In terms of its significant constituent parts, this year’s Tar Heels are last year’s Tar Heels minus Ginyard minus Stephenson (and Thomas if you want to quibble) plus Davis plus Frasor. If Davis were to declare for this year’s draft, he would defiitely go first round, might very well be a lottery pick, and might well be a top five pick. He is very, very good. Thomas started ahead of Davis, but in the two tournament games in which teams actually contested Carolina, Davis played more minutes. (Thompson’s foul trouble may have had something to do with that in the Nova game, but not against LSU). Trading Stephenson for Davis was like trading a solid plough horse in exchnge for a thoroughbred.

You might downgrade the importance of Frasor’s return (actually, you seem to be completely ignorant of it despite the fact that he played 23 minutes in the title game) , but consider the facts. He is a competent point guard who started his freshman year when Carolina upset Duke at Cameron Indoor. In his sophomore year, he gave way to Lawson without a whimper. There’s value in that gesture. He’s an irritating little fucker on defense and has a knack for coming up big when least expected and most needed (in the first half against Duke at Cameron indoor this year, his 3’s kept Carolina in the game). He is adept at running the fast break and has an uncanny ability to anticipate, track, and then capture long rebounds and loose balls (7 rebounds against Villanova in about 20 minutes of playing time). Most importantly, though, Frasor’s return allowed Lawson to grab a breather without the Carolina half court offense going into spasms. I could go on about Frasor, but will leave it at that.

Ginyard was missed during the regular season. He started largely because he was willing and able to play-get-in your face defense. He filled a wing nicely on the break, but was no force in the half court offfense. Defensisvely, there was really nothing he could do that Green and Ellington couldn’t when they felt like it, as they demonstrated in the tournament. (OK, maybe that last bit includes more than a touch of hyperbole to make my point). Don’t get me wrong, Ginyard is a valuable player, but despite the fact that Frasor brought different things to the table, his return did lot to make up for Ginyard’s absence.

The second problem with your conclusion is analytical in nature. It is the unspoken assumption that the quallity of a team is nothing more than the sum of the physical talents which comprise it. If you want to make that argument, fine. I’ll leave the task of demolishing it to someone else . But that proposition is absolutely the last thing I would expect to come from someone who follows Longhorn football.

Hey guys, I don’t know what in the hell happened with the 2nd post. I thought I had left the original unposted and went to play tennis, then came back to edit and post what I had written. What I had written was still in the box. My apologies.

GHG90,

The arguments we have made for the quality of this UNC team relative to other teams are the kind of arguments that could be wrong about as easily as they could be right. And I admit right readily that you may well have drawn the correct conclusion.

Also, I didn’t actually defend Frasor but rather described his contributions to the team as I see them. You may have found that description to be funny, but Roy Williams would not; otherewise, he would never have played Frasor 23 minutes in the title game. Pardon me if I value Williams’ opinion above yours.

Not a problem, but Frasor only played because UNC has no depth at the guard position due to Graves and Ginyard both being injured. Otherwise, Frasor doesn’t sniff the court…

GHG90,
                                                                                                          If it makes you happy to think that Graves or Ginyard would have manned the point when Lawson sat for a blow, then who am I to argue?

Just incidentally, Graves was suspended from playing for unspecified reasons after the first Maryland game, but if it makes you happy to think that he was injured, then who am I to argue?
                                                                                                              GHG90, I would advise you to ignore this paragraph. It is intended for readers who wished to be informed of the facts, not for those who wish to wallow in their biases, and it might therefore make you unhappy. In the first 7 games of the season, before Graves was suspended, Frasor sniffed a little over 17 minutes of court time per game. His coaches named him defensive player of the game 5 times during that stretch.

GHG90, it’s safe to read again. Respond all you please, but I do not plan to reply. It is, quite clearly, a waste of my time.

@Soldier of Orange:

“If Davis were to declare for this year’s draft, he would defiitely go first round, might very well be a lottery pick, and might well be a top five pick. He is very, very good.”

I stopped reading your reply right there. I haven’t laughed that hard in awhile, assuming that was your mission in writing that.

Davis is projected to go #5 in the draft if he left early by Chad Ford of ESPN.

Not sure why you are getting all in a tiff, Orange. I guess you just expect everyone to agree with you. For your information, in case you actually, IDK, watched UNC this year, Frasor was NOT UNC’s backup PG. That would be Larry Drew III. Thanks for the personal attack, though!

And what the hell are you talking about with my supposed “biases?” What a dumb comment…

And you really think I care how many times Frasor was named defensive player of the game? UNC’s WEAKNESS is defense, so one guy playing defense is a huge deal? Wow…just wow. Oh, and BTW since you didn’t know, Ginyard played PG last year when Lawson was out and did a HELL of a lot better job than Frasor did when he has tried to play it for the ’Heels over the years.

You need to tone down the attitude, buddy. Don’t know what your fascination is with Frasor, but there’s no reason to insult others because of it…

@dick:

Davis is a talent, no doubt. If you want to believe Chad Ford, go for it-let me know how that works out for your point.

Just in case anyone still thinks the domination by UNC this year means as much in years prior:

If you look at the final KenPom rankings for this year and compare them to prior years, you’ll see something interesting that tends to reinforce the impression that this was a “down” year in college basketball. His PYTHAG rating combines adjusted offense and adjusted defense to provide an overall rating for a team. If you look at the top Pythag rating for each of the last four years and then at the top 10th, 20th and 30th teams, here’s what you’ll see:

YEAR 1st 10th 20th 30th
2009 .9770 .9508 .9238 .8900
2008 .9916 .9657 .9487 .9269
2007 .9860 .9645 .9453 .9354
2006 .9737 .9458 .9162 .8750

The underlined entries indicate the strongest showing for that ranking slot among the four years.

It comes as no surprise to Jayhawk fans that KU last year posted the strongest overall rating of any team for the past four years. The fact that last year’s 10th and 20th best teams were statistically stronger than the 10th and 20th best teams in any of the other years also seems to validate the general impression that last year was a particularly competitive year among top (ranked) teams. The fact that last year’s 30th best team was statistically stronger than this year’s 20th best team seems to validate the general impression that this year was weaker at the top. In fact, you have to go all the way to the 160th ranked teams for the two years before the lines cross and you start seeing the 2009 teams rate higher than the 2008 teams. In other words, the average to really good teams last year were much stronger than the average to really good teams this year. However, the bad to really bad teams this year were better than last year’s bad to really bad teams.

Don’t let the Tarholes, Fox Sportsters, Dick Vitales or darksiders try to convince you otherwise.

Balls,

I know you didn’t address this comment to me, but I resent being lumped, by implication, with the Tarholes (Tarholes ?), Fox Sportsters, Dick Vitales, and darksiders of the world. Well, maybe not the darksiders.

Assuming that the methods and assumptions employed to generate the KenPom rankings are valid (and believe me, I would be among the last people on Earth to be able to tell whether they were or not), I concede the point that last year’s Kansas team was superior to this year’s Carolina team (since I don’t know how a .0146 difference in the rankings translates into point differentials, though, I coudn’t say by how much).

However, that wasn’t the point of the comment I addressed to you. It was in comments which I addressed to Trips that I delineated the reasons I thought this Carolina team the equal of any other college team with one caveat, a point I now concede subject to the conditions stated above.

Since you didn’t finish reading the comments I addressed to you, allow me to point out that what I took issue with in your post was the following equation:

(Carolina 09 = Carolina 08 – Ginyard), that and the statement that last year’s Kansas team bitchslapped this year’s Carolina team. Both contentions are manifestly false. I should have just written that at the time and saved myself a lot of trouble. Perhaps I did go somewhat overboard on Davis. Try this instead: “If Davis were to declare for this year’s draft, he would likely go in the first round, have an outside shot at being a lottery pick, and if really bad franchise hired Pat Forde to be its GM, could conceivbly be a top five pick.”

And although I have found the last few exchanges to be somewhat tiresome, if my comments have brought even the least bit of laughter into the world, it’s been well worth the effort!