Sooner Tragic

Great stuff all around.
 
OU has some interesting games coming up and I’ll be watching them very intently.

Now tell us how you really feel.

But can we trust Gypsy Strippers? Because my internet girlfriend from Romania seems legit.

“Impacted”

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Gotta disagree with you about rooting for OU when they played Tech last year. It was our only hope. Baylor nearly pulled it off for us. Thats the only time I’ve ever rooted for them and hopefully the last. Point is, I’ll root for OU if it means Texas could win the Big 12 south, play for the Big 12 championship, and have a legitimate shot to play in a MNC.

We must have the most emotional, simpering, insecure fanbase in all of sports outside of Boston for this to be happening already.

Bah, you’re five years behind the times. That was pre-2004.

As an MU fan I was very happy Maclin left because he had nothing but downside ahead of him. Maclin wanted to stay and Pinkel tells him he has to go now . Contrast that with Pelini who flies up to Oregon to recruit a sure fire top 10 pick in Suh to stay. He had to have learned that trick from Stoops.

The guaranteed money thrown at top picks today makes it insane to stay in school. For $30m Bradford could have recreated college in a few years if he had to. Plus, how different is the NFL from college, really? The money is a lot larger, the women are hotter so why stay?

Unfortunately, bad career decisions resulting in personal loss of millions will continue to be made by otherwise smart athletes, in OU and elsewhere. The next round of Stoops recruits will not learn from the mistakes being made right now by their predecessors. An athlete does not make career decisions the same way, say, an MBA grad does. The world of an athlete is romanticized in our society, and the very best among them are regarded with feelings ranging from admiration to adulation all the way to worship. The best of them hear the call to be courageous, to be selfless, to be heroic. When you’re a kid, and the hopes of your peers, your school, your state are all pinned on you, and everyone is begging you to stay, it becomes easier to tell yourself that you will not be selling out to the NFL, that you’re here because you love football, that you’ll stay until you can’t, because that’s what you are, a selfless hero, a savior. In the heat of a game, Jordan Shipley is not thinking about how his next catch will earn him that much more in the NFL. He is there with a warrior’s mentality, to succeed, to defeat, to conquer. Anyway, it is the mythology that we create around these players that deceive them, that make them give too much.

• FAAAAARRTT**

Turning down NFL millions to return to OU begins to make more sense when you remember where these guys come from. For those who grew up where Bradford (OKC), Gresham (Ardmore) and McCoy (OKC) did, merely playing for OU is considered taking up residence in Valhalla. Playing a key role on a championship team there means the beer is delivered by eager celestial concubines. It may seem meager to us as outsiders when compared to a shot at national fame and much larger fortune than being “taken care of for life” north of the Red River. However, it is hard to overstate the stature of that program in the state.

As for Williams who is from Longview, well, he is an offensive lineman. And, with apologies to those hailing from there, have you spent much time in Longview?

I still find it amusing that OU played for a NC in 2004 over an udefeated Auburn team who beat the defending NC LSU team led by Nick Saban as well as other SEC foes. The media was fooled in 2004 by Sooner propaganda and they fell for the same trap in 08.

The only reason to go to Dallas this year is to find the parties where girls romance each other.

Venables and Stoops are well known negative recruiters and habitual liars. The injury to Bradford was pretty similar to what happened to Stephen McGee last year early in the season. It took McGee until the Texas game to even try to play again and he was not 100%, and he never should have taken the field last yield as it jeorpardized his pro future. Fortunately he didn’t get hurt in the Texas game, but there wasn’t much upside other than playing in a rivalry game 1 more time. If Bradford somehow see’s the light he won’t play again this year. McGee was fine by the time the combine rolled around did reasonably well there. I thought it was pretty funny lately when Jackson Jeffcoat struck the Sooners from his list because they contacted him during a dead period. His parents theorized that if the coach doesn’t follow the rules he can’t be trusted. I don’t think the sooners will be down for long, but since it is a zero sum game it helps my Aggies if bloom goes off the Stoops rose.

Thanks for the responses, guys.

Groundhog—

You’re crossing up 2003 and 2004. 2003 was OU being blown out by KSU, then playing LSU in the Sugar while USC played Iowa in the Rose. 2004 was undefeated USC vs. undefeated OU while undefeated Auburn watched from the sidelines. I know because I used to confuse the two seasons myself.

hopefulhorn—

You make a great point about the whole social structure in the land of joad. I’ve been to Longview and you make a good point there as well.

FriedRice—

While I agree that this will continue to occur, it doesn’t make it any less delicious to rip on it now.

hughakston—

I agree with everything you typed, including the take on Pelini. The Stoops coaching tree is strong, selfish, and widespread. Suh could be anywhere but Lincoln right now with millions in his bank account.

bigdukesix—

Pre-VY, I complained as loudly as anyone, and I don’t regret it. I will attest that things are different now, including how I see things regarding this program. A national title can do that for you, I suppose.

probablymaybe—

As I posted then and repeated now, there is nothing good to come of rooting for them. I linked an article in which I gave a number of ways in which we could make the title game even with an OU loss to Tech. And they were right. As was the concept that the worst thing that can possibly happen when rooting for OU probably will occur.

panchoclaus—

Using “impacted” in verbal form for “impact” has been debated and approved by the dictionary boards and is considered standard use since early last century. I do commend you on your English skills, however, sir.

misterloki—

I think you should not only trust the Internet girlfriend, but pay for her to move over here and settle down. Good luck.

CTJ,

No, I didn’t confuse the years but you make another great point. OU snowed the voters in 03 as well when USC should have been playing LSU in the Sugar after OU was blown out by KSU in the Big 12 CG. How did I forget that?

If you go back to 04, the big 12 was somewhat weak and they barely got by a number of teams (namely Okie State and A#M). Their d no longer had Tommie Harris, etc. Adrian Peterson covered up numerous holes on that team and if UT had exhibited any guts in 04 we would have beaten them. OU should have not played USC ahead of that Auburn team. A team that defeated the defending National Champions in a slug fest.

My point is, OU continues to snow the media with outrageous propaganda.

Yeah, I am not sure what I was thinking in regard to your original. I must have glanced and misread it. I agree with your point completely, in any event.

ctj, what makes you think that Stoops convinced any of these players to return to OU. You post lie after lie after lie, and finally your lies become fact. At least in your feeble mind. Stoops has always advised players that project in the first round to take the money. That is how he advised Tommie Harris. That was also his advice to AD. Bradford stated that there were several reasons for his return. Among those advisers was Bill Parcells. He told Sam to gain more weight. He also told him that a QB needed forty starts in college to be ready for the NFL. Sam has 28 at that point. McCoy promised his mother that he would graduate. She died his freshman year from cancer. Apparently, he intends to keep his promise. Trent Williams was projected second round. He wanted first round money that was usually reserved for LT’s. So, he returned and requested a move to the left side. BTW, he played the left side his entire career prior to OU. Gresham has never detailed his reasons for returning to my knowledge but I am sure that Bob Stoops did not trick him into staying.

You mentioned Ricky Williams. He had nothing to gain but he returned for another year. You were excited. Isn’t that nice. Did you call him out as being stupid??? Did you call out Mack for openly and publicly recruiting him to stay. Mack knew he could be injured but he was also crucial for Mack’s first year success. Did Mack really care about Rick Williams and his future or was Mack more concerned about Mack Brown’s future? So, he arranged the Hicks payoff to keep Ricky around. Tell me again about how almost all Class A baseball players batting ,238 get a major league contract and 250k bonus.

Great stuff, CTJ.

The Bradford and Gresham injuries will have a big impact on players from all over making these decisions in subsequent years. Lots of agents licking their lips.

interesting question about Big Game Bob on the Forum over at Boomer and Sooner:

http://barkingcarnival.fantake.com/forums/topic.php?id=72

soonerspy—

In regard to how we know Stoops talked to them about coming back, well, apply Occam’s Razor. That rule doesn’t always work, but it sure works a lot. The simplest answer here is that he did speak with them and implore a return.

Look at the alternatives:

1) He completely ignored them and went out of his way to avoid a discussion on the subject with them.

2) He pushed them to go pro and told them that that was their best decision and then they ignored him.

Do either of those come across as plausible by the comparison of him talking to them, and having other folks talk to them, in an effort to influence them to return, which, by the way, benefits him directly?

The history of this guy’s behavior gives enough evidence to find it easier to assume that he did what was in his best interest instead of what benefited others more.

That question might have been intentionally naive, but you’d have to be willfully oblivious to look at the set of points presented here and in your own mind to come out the other side of the discussion as believing that he did not play a role in them returning. The world isn’t a procedural court of law. What do your eyes and instincts tell you?

In regard to Bradford, his dad was public in the winter about thinking it a good idea for the guy to go pro.

Your complaining about Ricky WIlliams and the implied transgression with HIcks might even be worth entertaining as far as a discussion if you weren’t a sooner calling it into question. You guys don’t seem to get this, but the rest of the world views you as a pathetic joke when it comes to integrity, playing within the rules, etc. You’ve never won anything without cheating. The entire concept of your state and school mascot is that of cheating. The government, no less.

Sell stupid somewhere else. We realize you have plenty of it to pass around, so try the NFL boards or something, that way you can converse with fans of other professional franchises as well.

Great post, CTJ.

Speaking of the OU hype machine. Did anyone notice how “great” that world beater Dominique Franks looked this past weekend? That secondary looks awfully weak. Outside of the DL and Travis Lewis this OU team has a lot weaknesses. The game at Miami could get ugly in a hurry and all of a sudden Baylor looks like an interesting game.

Soonerspy,

OU is lucky to have McCoy as a student athlete. He seems like a great kid who values a degree and loves his home state university. For that, I hope he stays healthy throughout this season. It’s also possible that he chose to improve his status from late first rounder to top 10 pick as he was awfully inconsistent last year due to nagging injuries. However, he played a hell of a game against Florida.

But I have no idea why Gresham came back as he was a force all year and most certainly would have been the first tight end taken in last year’s draft. I certainly liked him a lot better than Pettigrew because of the matchup problems he created with that size and speed. He had nothing to gain by staying and I look forward to what he has to say about his OU days after he leaves Norman. We’ve certainly heard from the Tommie Harris’ and the Malcolm Kellys of the world regarding their time at OU.

I guess the premise that sooners work off of is the same as that of their collection of coaches and administrators: Lie, lie, lie, and when you’re caught, lie some more. While that may work with the NCAA and it’s toothless enforcement arm, we the people of the court of public opinion, and those capable of doing basic Internet research and remembering back 8 months, do not have to believe or acknowledge your pathetic bullshit as anything but the lies that they are.

You called me a liar above, soonerspy, and then you asked for proof. Well, courtesy of Trips Left from a forum thread, who did the work before I had to, here is a breakdown of just some simple data backing up the concept that Stoops talked these guys into coming back. But don’t let facts get in your way while you bluster about hoping no one notices the truth.

Enjoy:

#
Trips Right Administrator

Posted 9 hours ago 63.76.139.12 Edit Delete Undelete

Stoops was pitching Bradford to come back. He wasn’t advising him or asking him to weigh the pros and cons, he was flat out manipulating the kid. Check out this reasoned reponse to legitimate question before Bradfords announcement.

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/bob-stoops/

Tebow, a junior, and Bradford, a sophomore, were asked about the N.F.L. on Saturday night and gave wait-and-see answers. Oklahoma Coach Bob Stoops, however, went on a diatribe that could have melted Mel Kiper’s hair gel.

"You don’t know that," Stoops said sternly to a reporter who said that Bradford projected high in the N.F.L. draft. "Those people who are projecting that have no idea about that. You guys are making something that isn’t there unless you have got a draft projection back that I didn’t. O.K.? So you’re going on speculation that rarely is correct. If he’s a top-five guy, he ought to go. If he isn’t, he’ll be a top-five guy at some point in his career. At least that’s my belief. There’s a big difference. He still has a lot he’ll improve and mature and physically grow and mentally handling everything. There’s so much that people don’t talk about that throw those projections around that don’t take into consideration."
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Trips Right Administrator

Posted 9 hours ago 63.76.139.12 Edit Delete Undelete

And this gem.

http://www.tulsabeacon.com/?p=1304

"We are pleased that these players are returning to our program," said OU head coach Bob Stoops.

"They understand the value of gaining another year of experience and improving their position in the draft along with the value of either finishing their degree or being within a few hours of completing it," said Stoops.

Stoops said the average career in the NFL is only 3.5 years.

"I think they all see the value in another year’s experience improving their draft position," Stoops said. "Every time you improved five spots, eight spots, ten spots, if you improve a round, you have three or four times your money. That’s a factor.

He talked about the differences in salary between a second or third round pick and a late round pick; a first round pick and a second or third round pick and being picked in the top half of the first round versus the bottom half of the first round.

"They all want to take care of their parents, they want to be able to take care of their family," Stoops said.

"The second and third round money you’re going to be able to take care of yourself and that’s about it. First round, you’re talking about taking care of yourself and some other people. They want to solidify those positions and be in as strong a position as they can be when they enter the draft.

"So, when you do it that way and you jump draft positions forward, you really make a more significant amount of money and you’re more experienced and prepared for that atmosphere. So they see the value in that, and I appreciate those guys.

"I also think our players recognize the opportunities we have as a program to pursue more championships and that’s something that means a lot to all of us."

Players who stay in college for four years almost always improve their draft status, barring injuries.

"It’s a lot harder to cut a first-round pick," Stoops said

Groundhog,

I hate OU. I mean I really hate those inbred skunk pelt trading banjo players.

But in 2004, OU absolutely deserved to play in the BCS bowl over Auburn. The Big 12 was not down. In fact the Big 12 South was loaded — Texas was #6, aggy was #22, Tech was #23, Okie State was #32 (rankings before bowl games when the champ game participants were decided).

Okie played a nonconference schedule of UH, Bowling Green (ranked 36th in AP), and Oregon. Auburn played a nonconference of Louisiana Monroe, Citadel, and La Tech. Per Sagarin, OU’s SOS was the 13th toughest. Auburn’s was the 60th toughest.

So Mobilehoma deserved to go over Auburn.

OU had by far the best win by killing us that year.

CloseToJumping, Saul Alinsky would be proud:

Rule 5: Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. It’s hard to counterattack ridicule, and it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage.

-Rules for Radicals

Saul Alinsky? Really?

It may seem meager to us as outsiders when compared to a shot at national fame and much larger fortune than being "taken care of for life" north of the Red River. However, it is hard to overstate the stature of that program in the state.

That seemed to work out pretty well for Billy Sims. I think NFL money will provide a better life than the occasional free 3.2 beer and a reserved bed at the Tulsa Salvation Army shelter.

Randy,

You make good points, but it’s possible that Auburn was the better team that year and anyone who goes through the SEC undefeated is a special team as it doesn’t happen very often. Also, if you look at those scores, it’s obvious there were some weaknesses on defense which were really exposed in the Orange Bowl.

Also, Randy, and I hope this doesn’t happen but could Texas be this year’s Auburn because our OOC schedule is so embarrassing? What if Florida, USC, and Texas finish the season undefeated? USC plays two tough OOC opponents in Notre Dame and Ohio State plus the pac 10. Texas needs Oregon to lose to Utah and Purdue. They also need Oregon State to get a beat down by Cincinnati and Georgia to beat Arizona State.

The above scenario is possible but Florida finishing undefeated is no given as recent history has shown and that team will miss Percy Harvin more than people think. Texas needs to run the table.

CTJ,

You nailed all three premises. This was timely, spot on and should be required reading not just for Longhorn fans but all fans of CFB, not to mention mothers of recruits.

Regarding item #3, it was abuntantly clear then as it is now, that the BS responses from both sides of BS’s mouth regarding his stars draft status back in the Spring were a blatant indication of his willingness to manipulate his own players for his personal benefit and to keep the toothless hoards in the “Land of Joad” (apologies ctj but I’m going to use that one for a while) appeased. Oops! – now it backfired, time for plan B, which not so coincidentally involves more lying just like plan A, only now its about how great Landry Jones is, the OL will surely come together, Gresham’s not out for the seasson!, first game jitters, blah, blah blah.

I, like most Longhorn fans, feel badly for good kids/players like Bradford and Gresham and wish them well. But this isn’t about them. It’s about that lying, headphone throwing Narcissist and his visor toting staff that will do or say anything to feed the monster in Norman. I.E. “Don’t worry Mrs. FiveStar Recruits Mother, we’ll coach him up and send him to the NFL (now muttering) unless of course we need him to turn down millions in the NFL and play injured to save our asses.”

Aggy and OU are our main competition for recruits… if we lose out on a bluechipper, 8 out of 10 times its to one of those two schools. If they do poorly… we get more recruits. We get more recruits…. WE win more and they lose more…

This is the current cycle that aggy is in that has prevented them from competing on a regular basis. OU COULD begin said cycle if they lose a bunch this year.

In summary, NEVER ROOT FOR OU.

Agree with Sooner spy that Bradford had a number of legit reasons for coming back. I’m sure he couldn’t have anticipated all the problems on the O-line, but knew it would be weaker.

Gresham I don’t understand.

monkeywrench:

I think Alinsky’s intent was to use ridicule as a means of squelching the opposition and putting them on the defensive. The use of facts, support or justification is not critical – it’s an emotion-driven tactic.

Contrast that with observations that are rooted in logic, supported by analysis and backed by facts, quotes, statements, etc. that are taken completely in context and, preferably, from the subject of the observation. For an example, see what CTJ and Trips put together.

So, where do Baylor & OU play this year?

A&M’s starting to lose recruits to Tech and, yes, Baylor. A&M is probably still one of the main competitions for UT recruits, but they’re starting to get beat by other programs, too.

Baylor is at Norman the week before OU-TX.

I’m going to venture that CTJ really enjoyed writing this article. His Bob Stoops voodoo doll has to be in shreds by now.

CTJ,

All points pitch perfect except for using the Ny Times blog as proof of anything. They still employ the likes of Thayer Evans and therefore cannot be trusted, much like the Blow U coaching staff.

Suh is on record as saying that the only reason he returned was to restore the family’s honor. Cf. the 2008 SOTU:

“The other tackle is Ndamukong Suh, whose name in the Ngema tribe in Cameroon means ‘I’ll move aside. Take the open grasslands.’”

During Pelini’s visit, they turned the lights low and chanted ritual curses on Henry James and his offspring.

But what is Stoops motive for playing up his team? It seems to me if he downplays them he wouldn’t get the backlash from the media and fans when it comes crumbling down, and if they play better than advertised he comes out smelling like roses.

The bottom line is if the team knows Bradford is out for the year, they’ll mail it in. This is why Stoops keeps obfuscating.

Apparently, the lockerroom at halftime of the BYU game was like a morgue. No one stood up and tried rally the troops which isn’t surprising because ou’s really good at playing from ahead and keeping an edge. Knock ’em in the mouth and they fold like a bunch of frontrunners. Think Mike Tyson.

Posted on shaggybevo by an Okie State fan that said he got it from a Sooner:

“But what is Stoops motive for playing up his team?”

Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt.

Yeah, as someone said, you gotta consider that Oklahoma is a pit of a State, and that football program of theirs is, bar none, the best thing they have going. I can see kids growing up having wet dreams about going there and putting on the red longjohns, and when the time comes to leave, they can’t bring themselves to do it. That’s one of the reasons why they don’t want to leave. Of course, the other reasons you can chalk up to them being Oklahomans (is that what they’re called?), and as such, aren’t very bright folks.

Don’t be so down on ridicule. From this side of the RRR, rather than merely pointing out stupidity, I would much rather point AND laugh at it.

Like that bumper sticker says, “Tact is for People Who Are Not Smart Enough to be Sarcastic”

I hear the greatest center in sooner history broke hand today..

That should read broke his hand today.

Unless you’re from Oklahoma, in which case the way you wrote it the first time makes more sense.

Not from oklahoma. Every time I post sober something like this happens..

I will only add – don’t lump all the guys who coached under BS or his dad into the same class. I know of at least one college coach from that tree who told me this winter that Bradford was a damned idiot for staying at OU.

True Longhorns should demonstrate class. This is not a classy article, particularly the dig on Dan Cody. Clinical depression is not something to make fun of.