Blogpoll RoundTable: Week 6

I mentioned this earlier and am still in shock over it…I fractured my scapula end of June this year. End of September (3 months) Doc finally gave me the "ok" to play golf…GOLF!! Stoops is a turd and recruits should be able to see this.

Flipping the lens, does another OU loss — 4/5 to Texas, 0/5 in the last five BCS bowls — permanently establish Big Game Bob as an overrated, overpaid coach disguised as an asshole?</strong

Barry Switzer entered the 1982 game with an overall record of 90-13-3, two national championships and eight Big 8 titles.

And if Marcus Dupree didn’t play the one game he was recruited for, Swtizer would have never gotten the chance to win anothe NC or oversee the demilitarized zone that was the OU dorm.

Switzer had lost four out of five of these games to Fred Akers, and a loss in 1982 would have fried his ass — and he knew it.

Good stuff, srr50. You know Stoops would sell his first born for a win on Saturday.

Great stuff. Some Dallas writer wrote an article about how RRR ticket sales were down since OU had a couple losses. But you are right, this game is arguably as big or bigger for both teams than it would be if both were undefeated.

If both were undefeated and Texas lost (bye bye conf championship), at least it would have been to a top 3 team. As it stands with OU down a bit , the path clear to the Big 12 championship and Pasadena, which doesn’t happen that often, Colt and Shipley seniors, etc., Texas must win.

If both were undefeated and Texas won, at least OU would still have a shot at the MNC, would have beaten two ranked nonconference teams already, and OU would still have 6 conf titles in the last ten or so years. As it stands, Stoops will really be on the hot seat for dropping 4 of 5 to UT if he loses. Not quite as must win for OU, but would really turn up the heat. Imagine the excuses, lies, and finger pointing we’d hear for the next year!

“Virginia lost to William & Mary. Not the school but to two motivated kids named William and Mary.” Genius.

srr50 – So with a Texas win, NEXT year is a must win for Stoops?

I have to admit the Marcus Dupree story was new to me. I just went and read the SI vault from 6/20/83 – on the falling out with Switzer. There’s just not enough disgust to go around. For example “On the other hand, if the Sooners do go 12-0, Switzer could be excused for thinking maybe everyone will get off his back about things like insider trading, delayed cable TV rights, a few pieces of stationary and his inalienable right to party as he wishes.”

I said it several years ago and I still say it. Reverse RRR results 2000-04 and BigGame would have been thumbing his way back to Norman.
The Marcus Dupree factor is what scares me about this weekend. Texas seems to find a way to help an OU coach in need.

Thoughts-

1. Mack Brown has been a great success at Texas in every metric except conference titles.

2. The Sooners emphasize how important conference titles are, because that’s what they have. Mark Richt shows the fallacy of that thinking. He has conference titles, in the toughest conference of all, and has won a lot of games. He hasn’t had that magic season that makes him bullet-proof for years, and he’s coming up against that ten year itch that kills so many coaching careers of the marginally successful.

3. A Texas win does not guarantee the Big 12 title, let alone a MNC. It does hurt OU, though, which is worth a lot.

how does this year’s Texas/OU game define Mack Brown’s legacy?"
It doesn’t. OU could very well finish 7-5 with losses to Tech and Nebraska (both road games). This team was crippled by injuries early in the season, and Sam Bradford has exactly no one to throw to. Beating OU at this point is like finally having sex with the hottest girl in your high school…30 years later when she’s wildly unattractive due to a life of alcohol, abusive relationships, and bleached hair. It’s cool, in a novelty sort of way, but it’s not the true victory of which you always dreamed.

“Mack Brown has been a great success at Texas in every metric except conference titles. The Sooners emphasize how important conference titles are, because that’s what they have.”
REWORDED:
“The Longhorns minimize how important conference titles are because that’s what they do not have.” OR “The Longhorns emphasize 10 win seasons that resulted in trips to non-BCS bowl games because that’s what they have.”
Accentuate the positive, baby. That’s the just the nature of modern PR. I won’t knock Texas for it, and you’re a fool to knock OU for it.

“Who neeeds to win a big game more: Bob Stoops, Jim Tressel, or Mark Richt?”
From a nationwide perspective: Stoops. Big Game Bob has become no-game Bob in the eyes of most casual fans and the media.
From a fanbase/hot seat perspective: Richt. Stoops at least has the whole “unprecedented 3rd straight Big 12 title” claim. Richt is currently the 3rd best coach in the SEC (if that) and falling.

“should [the loser of the Florida-Alabama game] get a chance to play again in January for a national championship?”
ABSOLUTELY NOT. It’s one thing to advocate for a rematch when the game was early in the season. Teams change and improve as the year goes on. But there’s no logical reason for a rematch of the last game of the year for each team prior to the title game.

Pick the game that glistens like no other on your remaining schedule. Why does it shine for thee?
Oklahoma @ Nebraska. Ndamukong Suh vs. the Oklahoma OL in Lincoln. This is shaping up to look like Mad Dog vs. the Golden Corral Sunday buffet.

“ABSOLUTELY NOT. It’s one thing to advocate for a rematch when the game was early in the season. Teams change and improve as the year goes on. But there’s no logical reason for a rematch of the last game of the year for each team prior to the title game.”

But it was OK for the LOSER of a lesser conference championship game make it to the National Championship? LSU 21, OU 14.

how does this year’s Texas/OU game define Mack Brown’s legacy?

No one cares about conference championships. Bragging about winning conference championships is like Kimbo Slice bragging about how many pillow fights he’s won.

It’s all about the MNC’s. And It’s not sour grapes. I readily respect any coach who’s won more MNC’s, but not a coach with more conference championships. If Mack wins the big one this year and then retires, he will forever be better than Stoops.

“"The Longhorns minimize how important conference titles are because that’s what they do not have." OR "The Longhorns emphasize 10 win seasons that resulted in trips to non-BCS bowl games because that’s what they have."
Accentuate the positive, baby. That’s the just the nature of modern PR. I won’t knock Texas for it, and you’re a fool to knock OU for it.”

Sure. I could have finished the thought- Conference championships are the only metric where Brown comes up short. Bowl wins are the only metric where Stoops comes up short.

There are lots of metrics for coaches- and all are related to winning. There are wins, rivalry wins, big game wins, conference championships, division championships, bowl wins (some better than others), and MNCs. Mack is fine in most. I don’t think many people realize that over his last 14 seasons he has gone 140 – 29. To put that in perspective, Stoops is 118 – 26 over the last 11 years, and has to go 22 – 3 to match the pace brown is on. Mack is doing fine and has no need to apologize.

It seems like the MNC is the biggest metric. Bo Schembechler was one hell of a coach, but I wonder how many people think Vince Dooley was “greater”, despite a poorer winning % and fewer conference championships because he got that MNC and Bo didn’t.

The MNC alone doesn’t do it. Danny Ford, Johnny Majors…they won a MNC each, but aren’t considered great. They don’t have enough of the other stuff.

If Brown were to win another MNC, he will go in the books as one of the gratest coaches, even if he never gets another conference championship. If Stoops wins another, he won’t have to win anothr bowl game.

“Flipping the lens, does another OU loss — 4/5 to Texas, 0/5 in the last five BCS bowls — permanently establish Big Game Bob as an overrated, overpaid coach disguised as an asshole?”

Whaddaya mean, “diguised”? He’s a very genuine asshole.

And no, losing this year to Texas will not further harm Medium-Game’s reputation. His otocephalic lower-facial area will quiver as his eyes fill with the ghosts of a season lost, while he pompously invokes his “No Excuses!” mantra right before launching into a recitation (much like NateHeupel’s) of all the the injuries the poor, downtrodden, misunderstood Schoonerites have suffered. And the media will buy it, just as voters have given his teams free post-season passes despite Bob’s now-established haplessness in big bowl games.

• * *

SEC Rematch?
Not if there’s any undefeated team — and I include Boise St and the Natti in that mix. If you had your shot and couldn’t do it, a team that’s run the table over any kind of even semi-decent schedule deserves their shot. After all, as ol’ Medium-Game has proven (and ’Bama re-proved last year), sometimes the non-BCS darkhorsey types are worthy opponents even for established BCS powers.

• * *

October Upset
Is ND over USC an upset? I have a weird feeling about this one (and Clausen will earn some well-deserved Heisman run, not to mention a special nod from Touchdown Jesus, if he can pull it off).

• * *

Texas-OU and Mack’s Legacy
Mack needs this game and a conference title, only to show that he can do it “without Vince”. (Last year should have proven that, but systemic idiocy prevented it.) I realize there are all sorts of good counter-arguments to the “without Vince” issue, but let’s face it: We all know Mack has but a single conference title in his career. A single NC I could understand, but a right or wrong a coach has to have more than one conf title to be perceived as among the elite. (He also needs to not shit the bed in big bowl after big bowl, but that’s blowU’s problem, not ours.)

BEHorn, if someone were to break Shipley’s kneecap with a crowbar in Austin, OU would go from being a 3 point dog to a 1.5 point favorite, and I think OU would win by at least 10. Without Shipley, the Texas offense is Colt McCoy and 10 null entities.

magnus, I never said it was okay. Ever. But let’s face it: EVERYONE knew that no matter what the outcome of that game, OU was going to the BCS title game. And why did you post the score like it was some sort of smackdown? 21-14 in a default home game for LSU?
(Side Rant: The Cotton Bowl needs to be the 5th BCS game.

Taylor, Brown already should go down as one of the greatest coaches. I know you’re all high on Muschamp, but I don’t know if he’s got Mack’s insane ability to run a program like UT and run the unique Texas alum network with utterly perfect aplomb. Brown’s only knock is Greg Davis, and I’m convinced that Davis has some sort of serious blackmail info on Brown. There’s no other explanation.

Nate-

The Cotton Bowl or the Cotton Bowl at the new Death Star?

“I readily respect any coach who’s won more MNC’s, but not a coach with more conference championships.”

You got high standards, man. What is your definition of “respect”?

NateHeupel,

Didn’t mean it as a smackdown, just a reminder for those that read this what year it was. In fact if that game went 5 more minutes, your team wins.

If there is different levels of OU Hell, like white-flame being where Switzer goes, then I hope you end up in the lesser of all OU Hells, barely smoldering Hell. You’re a logical dude. Proof of that is the shit you catch from fellow OU fans for being realistic.

Nate – don’t write about breaking Shipley’s kneecap with a crowbar, or the next thing we know Switzer will show up in Austin on the same flight as Tonya Harding.

While I don’t entirely agree with your point — OU’s offense isn’t much better as it currently stands, and your QB is potentially delicate — I do understand it. And like magnus, I too hope you’re only consigned to barely-smoldering OU hell.

.

SimonOnSports for the Blogpoll Roundtable

There is no way that a team that doesn’t win its own conference, and loses head to head on a neutral field will ever get a second shot at the same team the very next game, it just won’t happen. No matter what conference , no matter how good the game, the team is out.
Just ask Michigan , they lost on the road in the last minute in one of the best games I’ve seen to Ohio St in 06 and they couldn’t even get in the discussion, heck Bama was 12-0 when they played florida last year and didn’t even come close. If there is a 13-0 Texas it’s not even a discussion. If there are only one loss teams… then its going to go to USC because they lost early without their QB on the road.

Travis, nate, and BE,

I agree it’s a ridiculous scenario. I threw the question out there because I’m seeing that outcome thrown out there as a plausible event by talking heads on TV and idiots on message boards. Even some SEC homers for Bama and Florida acknowledge and embrace the possibility.

Taylor brings up a good point about how beating OU doesn’t guarantee a Big 12 Title and a berth in Pasadena. But I look back to ctj’s1984 BYU post about the path of least resistance. Beating OU certainly clears our biggest hurdle. Okie State is hardly the opponent we thought it was heading into the season and KU and Mizzou have the kind of defenses this year that make Greg Davis look good.

Assuming we clear those hurdles and puddlejump A&M, our defense would absolutely buttfuck Zac Lee in Dallas. We can neutralize Suh with our dink and dunk passing game. Sure, Tanner and Hall would probably get flung into Colt just after release but I think we have at least a 2 second window to operate.

Beat OU and the red carpet unfolds. What other teams do from here on out is irrelevant — It’s Texas vs FloriBama unless the team that wins the SEC championship game drops one before then in conference play.

Simon,

If you think Mack Brown’s legacy will have any connotation with the word ‘whiner’ then you need to get out of Storrs at bit more. I’ll forgive the misconception due to your proximity to Bristol.

I know you really just want to talk about the Texas/UConn game in January. We’re game for that too.

Vash – “KU and Mizzou have the kind of defenses this year that make Greg Davis look good.”

So did Colorado.

Also, while I am not given to the “media conspiracy” school of thought, it seems pretty clear that the ESPN guys are more apt to talk up the SEC now that they have a multi-billion dollar commitment to the success of that league. “Rematch” conversations make for (moderately) entertaining TV, and so far Bama and FL have probably looked better on balance than the rest of college football.

And there’s no harm in the “rematch” blather. We’re not talking journalism here, just ESPN editorializing.

Vash – "KU and Mizzou have the kind of defenses this year that make Greg Davis look good."

So did Colorado.

True, but there is a pointed difference in our offensive gameplanning and execution pre and post-OU.

http://www.andthevalleyshook.com/2009/10/14/1085276/roundtable-3

My response to the Roundtable.

Our responses to these great questions… nice work, BC!

http://overthepylon.net/2009/10/14/blogpoll-roundtable-3/

http://www.buffs.tv/archives/2009/10/17/finally-another-roundtable.html

Here is the response from Buffs.tv, GO BUFFS!

if you want to see the list of my favorite games for 2009 check out my blog

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