The U: 30 for 30

Little Miss Muffett sat on a tuffett with her legs spread wide…..

Awesome was Alonzo Highsmith making the Boz pee his pants at the coin toss. That was gold.

Scip —

I agree with all of your points and loved the documentary. It showed how Howard Schnellenberger’s willingness to go in and recruit in the hard-core, all black ghettos of an urban city, which just so happened to be a place with an intense football culture, Miami.

The basic premise that much of the negative press was due to the unfamiliarity of the general sports population with urban black culture at the time is a good one. The U really got rolling before rap was mainstream, for example. And it’s a fair point. It’s also true that the Miami concept of recruiting tremendous athletes from disadvantaged urban surroundings was the wave of the future and is the model that all of the major college football programs now employ, more or less.

I also enjoyed the anecdotes about the fraternity of the former players and the self-policing you discuss. That is the very essence of team, and played no small part in their long run at the top. Frankly, the program’s fall-off has as much to do with other schools catching up to recruiting urban schools as anything else IMO. Just a great documentary.

Also, enjoyed Torretta passing his teammates in the hallway wearing ski mask to go steal stereos. That has to be an experience. You automatically eliminate yourself as the team leader in that environment.

I’ll have what Bernie Kosar’s having

Drunk Bernie Kosar rocks. Blades was also a favorite. That guy doesn’t even realize he’s a thug.

Oh yeah, Drunk Kosar was amazing. What kind of carpet is that guy selling these days anyway? He looked like Gil from the Simpsons.

That was Walsh, ded.

Walsh, then. It didn’t matter as long as it wasn’t a native.

I’m with you Scip. I thought it was TV gold. I though Cohen did a bad ass job. I’ve read some other boards and a lot of people are pissed that he didn’t do justice to the scandals and shennanigans running rampid throughout the program. I think that would have made the show boring. He didn’t exactly ingnore/hide it or even necessarily justify it, more like he tried to put you in the time and place and let the players and story tell itself.

Scip – Didn’t The Orgeron have a pretty big influence at The U? The audience is poorer for his lack of involvement in the show.

Luther Campbell’s “non-admission” of paying players was priceless.

Otis Redding?

Yeah, sorry… can’t go there with you. You won’t catch me watching this celebration of trash.

I was in undergrad for the end of the McWilliams tenure, and even if the Cotton Bowl wasn’t such a painful memory, I simply can’t celebrate what Miami did to college football from a cultural standpoint. They’re analogous to Muhammad Ali. Whatever advances they brought to their respective sports from a skill standpoint is more than offset by the damage they did to sport in general and the broader culture. They won their championships… congratulations… now they can be forgotten.

I’m sure Michael Vick had some real top shelf pit buils, too.

“Jamelle, Come out and play”

“We’re the boss”

Six Shooters, George Jefferson dance, celebratory flips, wanting to fight murderers and drug dealers in night clubs, comparing a football game to Pearl Harbor. This movie was pure entertainment.

This was the same director who did “Cocaine Cowboys” which was about the explosion of the cocaine trade in South Florida in the late 70’s and early 80’s

Randal Hill’s attempt to evade blame for running up the tunnel was priceless.

My snark aside, that 1991 Cotton Bowl was enormous it what it put in motion…

- It almost ended us as a legitimate program
- It probably was the final nail in the SWC coffin
- It definitely ended the Cotton Bowl as a legitimate Big 4 game
- It was, I believe, a real catalyst for the system that would eventually become the BCS. People knew watching that game that there was no way you could eliminate Miami as the best team in the country.
— It obviously showed there was an upper limit to what people would tolerate in terms of unsportsmanlike behavior and personal fouls. If that game was played the same way today, it would have garnered 350 yards in penalties.

As far as the Hurricanes team itself, I’m on the same page with so many others – ambivalent. I loved how they played like they were having a ball, and I loved how they completely stuck it to so many snobby, hypocritical institutions like Notre Dame, Nebraska and Oklahoma. They definitely punched and clawed and knifed and taunted us into the late 20th century, and thank God for that: Without it, Vince Young never even considers the Horns.

I love how they brought so much focus to the players and away from the Legendary Old White Coach paradigm.

But with so little control from the top, it was bound to go bad and the bullshit and criminality really was unforgivable. The Miami administration had no idea how to handle such a huge phenomenon and the coaching staff was either incapable of doing anything about it or just didn’t care (in Erickson’s case: Both).

You nailed is Scip — although being older I can’t quite look at it with a wry smile.

Basically Howard Schnellenberger ( and Jimmy Johnson) realized before just about anyone else that the NCAA had decided to finally admit that college football was really a minor league farm system, and that an SMU death penalty was never being used again.

That game was also the cause of my first arrest. I quit watching after the first half because it was ugly, and spent the second half tossing firecrackers in mail slots. I washed a lot of police cars for that. I was in the 7th grade.

I loved it and I wish I was alive during the The U’s heyday. Great analysis of what made The U elite. Not many people know that Irvin was one of the hardest players to every play in the NFL. His work ethic was legendary and their work ethic and skill was legendary. Their scheme and playing style was so far advanced it wasn’t funny. Every team they played was running the triple option and relying on the fumblerooskie to get big plays. They had average quarterbacks win Heisman’s because they were the only team with athletes who actually tried to throw the ball. Gino Torreta won a Heisman for Christ sake.

I don’t really see Miami ever getting back to being what they were. They might be able to make a run every now and then, but to be a consistent national champion contender is not possible. Their facilities suck ass, and the whole aura and swagger of Miami doesn’t exist anymore.

Maybe stab a teammate in the neck with scissors if he gets lippy.

This is at once hilarious and absolutely true. Great read, Scip.

I remember that Cotton Bowl very clearly.

I was struck by the audacity of the Miami team. They came into a situation that many teams would have found intimidating—a virtual home game for State U in a big, football crazed state. They were completely unfazed, laughed at it even, and were dominant from the opening play.

Hate/love really captures it. I hated the thug persona but loved their passion and commitment and envied it—wished our team played that way. It would take 15 years but we eventually did with Vince.

the director of the piece was a Miami apologist but he didn’t hold back on the discussions of criminality, scandal, bounties, and wrongdoing

Meh. He held back in that he explained it away because the players were poor, so they were excused from stealing car stereos.

I thought the whole thing was one-sided. Mocking the school president for wanting to make the school better academically or Butch Davis being demonically portrayed for his desire to make the team more disciplined was just pandering to U fans. That’s not a documentary. It’s a commercial.

By the way, I saw Alonzo Highsmith box in person once. He is about nine times bigger now.

Phenom -
 
He let the players speak for themselves. Do you need a voice over from Wilford Brimley saying, “This is very wrong and indicative of some of the more damaging mores and folkways found in inner-city culture.”
 
He let them hang themselves. If the viewer can’t make a moral judgement without a caption, then the viewer is a moral infant. And there are viewers that are. There was a guy on Hornfans with a “the players did what they had to do to eat” take which was amusing.
 
As far as one-sidedness, it’s intent was clearly to represent a singular point of view. That is permissible for a documentary.

I think it would have been great to have Wilford Brimley read Luther Campbell’s lines.

And Floyd the Barber read Bernie Kosar’s lines, though that would have been redundant.

Well there are probably some former players with the diabeetus right now.

One of my all time favorite Luther Campbell (or was it Fresh Kid Ice?) drops was “forget the salad, just eat my meat.”

Indeed.

Another great read reliving football history. A lot of words can be written about that period, but if I were to add two more, it would be Jimmy Johnson. The full Miami Hurricane effect peaked during his era from ‘84-’88. I had the same mixed fascination with Miami as a part of a larger 80’s cultural phenomenon, but by the time Johnson left, I recognized that he was a very gifted coach of players and knew the magic would follow him to the next level. It’s takes a rare person to be able to have fun in support of that intense of a culturo-emotional edge while honing it into football domination. Johnson had it.

It was Fresh Kid Ice.

Shake it, don’t break it, it your momma 9 months to make it

I was at that game. It was cold and miserable and the drive from Houston took 7 hours because of the ice. Plus I got shot at a rest stop. (that’s a different story)

The “Shock the Nation” talk had us all flying high and I didn’t have any inkling about what was about to happen to the team. I was prepared for a loss but not for that kind of Ike Turner beating.

When they knocked our kick returner out you could feel all the longhorn fans simultaneously clench and throw up a little in their mouths. It wouldn’t have been so bad if the team didn’t do it too.

Yeah, I got to the stadium at about 9 AM and engaged in a screaming contest with the Miami fans who were also there – sitting across the stadium. I think our seats were just about the worst in the stadium – upper deck corner.

I remember Stan Thomas was actually the only guy who didn’t seem outmatched. He fought the whole game and threw a couple of guys out of bounds on one play.

I liked the documentary because it reminded me why I rooted for the Canes before the 91 Cotton Bowl – their battles with ND and PSU for example. Kosar was priceless, and Steve Walsh was funny. Highsmith was good, but Irvin did bring it home.

The one glaring omission was the Deuce Davenport incident.

Lamar Thomas delivered my favorite line.

We weren’t worried about the game. We already knew we would win. I was worried how I was going to manage my women after the game.

Alas, I went to that game. Was a student at UT at the time. We road-tripped up at 5 in the morning after partying on New Year’s Eve. It was so cold at the game. And so humiliating too. One of the worst football experiences of my life. Luckily, my other team, Washington, killed Iowa in the Rose Bowl, which we listened to on the somber drive home.

Now that i think about it, getting to play all their huge bowl games at their home stadium is kind of taken for granted (lost all their bowl games between 84 Neb win and 88 OU win, both wins in Orange Bowl; losing to PSU in Phoenix, losing to Bama in NO). I couldn’t imagine playing all of our big games, including national title games at DKR.

I was too young to remember that cotton bowl but it sounds like the two 50 pt blowouts to OU. honestly, the first NC game that I remember watching was the Bama/Miami Sugar Bowl where Miami got slaughtered so really the only dominant Canes team I knew was the Butch Davis-created 2000-2002 teams.

A lot of the show was pretty much what I expected, one interesting thing I learned was how Howard left Miami. What the hell did he do after his USFL deal fell through and how big of an idiot did he look like back then? What were his circumstances leading up to him taking and then quickly leaving the OU job? Wasn’t he a drunk? He looks 10 times better now than he did 25 years ago.

Interesting that they had vilma and magahee and shockey on there and then they just ripped into the Butch Davis era. Only Shockey really fit into that Thug U phenomenon.

The Deuce Davenport incident from Sports Illustrated.

Forgot to mention that my friend was yelling stuff about the Dallas Carter armed robbery ring. Unfortunately Jessie Armstead’s Dad and a bunch of DC kids were sitting in front of us. We almost started a brawl or more likely a one-sided beatdown.

“I hated the thug persona but loved their passion and commitment and envied it–wished our team played that way. It would take 15 years but we eventually did with Vince.”

Vince was as sportsmanlike a player as I’ve seen in watching 40 years of college football. Clapping tacklers on the shoulder, making them laugh … re-think your summary.

Of course, if in your elliptical sentence structure, you meant: it = passion, then nevermind, sorry.

Scip, I found it entertaining, but not instructive. A bunch of old guys talking about how they liked being bad… whatever.

I liked Goodfellas.

Depravity, whether it’s Jimmy Johnson’s or Barry Switzer’s, remains depravity. It comes, it goes, and other than the feeling of unease that’s left behind, it leaves no real lasting imprint.

I often wonder what would have happened had Schnellenberger stayed. Something tells me he would’ve botched things eventually. He had stumbled onto the key ingredient(local talent) but that 83 team was by no means “gangsta.” Johnson, having grown up poor in Port Arthur and after learning a thing or two from Satan(aka Switzer), turned out to be a ridiculously genius hire. Not that he couldn’t have succeeded elsewhere, but he took the small hole in the wall Schnellie had made and literally drove a truck thru it.

The 91 Cotton Bowl – ouch. Miami simply made everything about UT look stupid that day – the team, the band, the fans, even Bevo. The odd thing is, we were still kind of in that game up til the pick 6 early in the 3rd quarter. We had come from behind quite a few times that year, so 19-3 didn’t seem insurmountable. Of course the final score might just as well have been 100-3, at least that’s what it felt like walking out the Cotton Bowl that day.

Two things came to mind.

First, I remember watching the Bama vs. Miami Sugar Bowl (national championship game) in 1992. Bama came out and lined-up all 11 players on defense at the line of scrimmage and literally dared Miami to try to run by them. Miami couldn’t. After George Teague made the play of the game by running down Lamar Thomas (remember him?) and stripping the ball from him while shoving him to the ground, I remember thinking to myself that the Miami era is finally over. The aura was gone. Somebody else stood up to the bullies and said “I bet you can’t”. Bama realized that putting a defense full of great African-American athletes was a path to success, and that you didn’t need all the theatrics that go with it to be badass. Miami was done. Florida State, Nebraska, and others would emulate Bama in the 1990s and load their defenses with African-American uber athletes and win multiple national championships. The formula had been solved.

Second, I found it disturbingly pathetic that a bunch of 40-something former mediocre players still revel in their days at Miami. Not Irvin, or Highsmith, or Walsh, etc…but listening to guys like Lamar Thomas (NFL nobody), Randall Hill (NFL nobody), Bernard Clark (NFL nobody), and Mel Bratton go on and on about the Canes wildness on and off the field, and are so unapologetic and proud of it all 20 years later in life. When should we expect these guys to mature? when are they going to learn that stealing radios, selling drugs, beating people up, hanging out at the clubs, etc…were all really fun things to do at, say, age 19-21, but that at some point you do grow-up and get beyond it. Listening to Hill, Thomas, Clark, Bratton, etc…made me think of Uncle Rico and living out his high school exploits well into his adult years. Sad, pathetic, and even moreso that these guys attended a university. Maybe thats what I take most from it, that these guys actually didn’t “get it” after four years of college, and that being football thug mercenarios is all that any of these guys could ever amount to in life. Such a waste.

Y’all are a bunch of bitches. So, we hate OU but embrace this culture? Ridiculous. Fuck Miami and their crack induced antics. Were they talented? Of course, but we’re the fan base that can’t stand a Ramonce Taylor type. No, they’re cunts, always will be. I don’t care how talented they were or mesmerized you are.

“Second, I found it disturbingly pathetic that a bunch of 40-something former mediocre players still revel in their days at Miami.”

I admit I’m no Miami fan, but I’m 40-something and still revelling in UT football, and I wasn’t a player – mediocre or otherwise. I don’t fault the ex-Canes for their Glory Days moments, especially when they’re essentially just mugging for Billy Corben’s camera (which is a lot of what they were up to back in the proverbial “day”).

Magnus — “y’all”? Narrow that scope just a hair, if you please; or at least read my depravity post directly comparing Miami to Switzer’s OU team. There is no difference, at all, between the two — other than that blowU’s cheating had a much more direct effect on our beloved Horns than Miami’s did.

BE, I’ll narrow it a red cunt hair. You posted yours while I was still thinking about whether or not I wanted to call out the collective as “bitches.” We’re on the same page. Hypocrisy is running rampant on this post.

By the way, while I have your attention….fucking phenomenal post earlier on the UT/Notre Dame Estadio match up. One of the best comments on here in a while.

Deal on the red cunt hair, magnus. I don’t often take issue with the BC bloggers, who I generally find to be very well-informed, thoughtful, smart writers, but (kudos out of the way) it’s ridiculous not to see Miami and blowU as cut from exactly the same ski mask — errr, cloth.

And thanks for the nod on the Estadio post …

Great piece, Scip. I loved the documentary and I hate Miami. It was a great bit of film because there has never been and probably never will be again a team like the U from early 80s-early 90s. I wish the former Ags of the long forgotten Wrecking Crew were calling up the current band of shitheads and getting in their ear about a legacy they have to uphold. Name another program besides Miami that has that type of fraternity feel from its alums.

Sloppy Kosar rebuking Notre Dame for not being good Christians was some stellar, drunken Catholic on Catholic crime. As the offspring of Notre Dame grads, I was thoroughly entertained. It was like any family reunion for me.

Michael Irvin is nails.

I’m with you Magnus. Fuck a bunch of thug ghetto monkeys – black, white, or otherwise. That whole mindset is why the NFL will never hold my interest like college ball does. The fact that, with lesser genes, a fool that would be nothing more than an inmate or a piece of shit bringing a neighborhood down, is rewarded with millions and looked up to by many, just pisses me off. Don’t get me wrong, I wish our O-line had a harder edge this year, but supporting a team that has a few guys that play like pussies and supporting a team culture that makes anyone with a reasonable set of morals vomit, are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

‘"Faggot ass Longhorns, bitch ass faggot bitches, y’all gonna get whooped!" And she was right. We were. She was a Dallas native, but identified with the Canes.’

If that is ever the mindset I have to have to identify with the Longhorns, then I would rather not.

Well…. bob, sorry you got shot at a rest stop. Hope that doesn’t mean it was with a gun, but it sounds like it does.

It also sounds like you were able to continue on to the game. It was bad from the time we left the locker room. I, for one, am used to bid, bad Texas boys standing up to anyone. We lost it when Miami began the in-your-face, chest bumping as we came out of the tunnel. It was downhill from there.

Scipio, you are abosolutely correct. It forced us to change so that we could once again hold our own on the national stage… chest bumps or no chest bumps, intimidation or not, bad boys or not.

Hook ’em!!

Wow, you kind of lost me with “ghetto monkeys.” I mean, you couldn’t have come up with something else? I’ll tell you what, don’t bring my name into your post.

You need to take a cultural sensitivity class or something. I abhor PC nonsense, but damn Hornsince….

Magnus – I tried to make the point that the culture, not race, was what I was talking about. I was a military brat and had the good fortune of going to some really shit schools in Mississippi and California. Through dumb decisions of my own, I spent time I would like to forget in some of Texas’ less than stellar neighborhoods. Whether white, black, mexican, vietnamese, or otherwise, the mentality is all the same. It’s primitive. It’s like being around a pack of wild animals. The “thug life” is an instinct driven culture that has very little place for humanity and even less for morality. I guess wolves would have been a less offensive, but I kind of like wolves.

I apologize if that came off racist, was not my intent. But if someone is acting like a primitive piece of shit, that’s how I’m going to call it.

Also, Dude, ghetto monkey is not the preferred nomenclature. African-American, please.

Can a nigga get a table dance? shake it up shake it up whooooooo! shake that thing!

Loved it. Loved Uncle Luke. Loved Howard Schnellenberger’s moustache and his leave behind pipe. Loved Jimmy Johnson’s hair product. Loved Dennis Erickson’s complete and utter lack of control.

Whither Warren Sapp during that thing? He was notably absent, like Randy Jackson from the Jacksons reality show.

If you like gettin’ pussy say, “Hell, Fuck Yeah!”

It’s a lot easier to deal with now that it’s over.

mickscal, one year at the St. Patty’s Day Parade in Dallas, the Baby Dolls’ float was playing that song and had a bunch of couches set up on the trailer. They would grab people off the streets and give them lap dances on the float. This was great until some 12-year old kid jumped up there. The stripper snatched him and proceeds to grind on the young man’s crouch, when Mother Bear realizes what is going on. The parade line starts moving again and we’re watching in amazement as this mom chases her young child on a float getting a lap dance down Greenville Ave………while the dad is running just a few steps behind mom with a camcorder and a big fucking smile on his face. The background music was perfect for this scene. My #1 favorite parade memory.

I thought you only went to parades in Oak Lawn.

I found the Rocky V reference abhorrent.

I thought it was an entertaining documentary, if only because most of the events in it predated my awareness of college football (I was 10 in 1984) and it was interesting to see some of the older games and players now that I am older and have a bit more appreciation for the context.

So what if it was biased? As Scip said, that’s the prerogative of the filmmaker and it’s stuff that happened 20-25 years ago. The game has changed and we’re not going back to that sort of thuggery and that’s probably all the judgment they need at this point.

I do have to agree, however, that I came away from the whole thing with a little bit of disgust at some of those 40 year old men talking tough to the camera without an ounce of remorse or maturity. Some of them, especially the guys who had a bit of success in the NFL, seemed to have a bit of perspective, but most of those guys were just pathetic, with the tattoos and excuses and all.

You can say that they were just mugging for the camera, but remember, Lamar Thomas got his ass fired from his TV job a couple of years ago for being so enthusiastic during the big FIU-Miami brawl. As near as I could tell he was being sincere.

“Sloppy Kosar rebuking Notre Dame for not being good Christians was some stellar, drunken Catholic on Catholic crime.”

There is no way Bernie Kosar is Catholic.

As for the hand-wringing from Magnus and the old white guy peanut gallery — come off it. The emergence of Miami’s football team was a culturally relevant event — you can like or bemoan it, but it happened. The documentary was not about pointing fingers and calling out individual players — it was a fairly nuanced show about a program that was unique at the time. And very different from Switzer at blowU. Switzer was not recruiting underprivileged guys from downtrodden neighborhoods in Norman. You don’t have to like the players, you can abhor their behavior on the field, but complaining about the documentary because it didn’t contain enough puritanical condemnation is the real bitch-move — not to mention intellectually dishonest. Go watch it again. That’s not what it’s about — it’s about a program, some neighborhoods, and real cultural changes in college football. .

Lamar Thomas got his ass fired from his TV job a couple of years ago for being so enthusiastic during the big FIU-Miami brawl. As near as I could tell he was being sincere.

Oh yeah… forgot about that. Of course, he was sincere. That was the problem.

“As for the hand-wringing from Magnus and the old white guy peanut gallery — come off it. "

Count me in as one of the ‘old white guy’ crowd who considers Miami’s contribution to college football to be a mixed bag. Good on the evolution of in-game strategies, the filter-down of pro-style concepts to the college level and the use & devleopment of athletes more effectively on the field; bad on the blind eye turned to player conduct on and off the field. Miami may have been a football machine on the field, but they operated effectively as a street gang off.

“You don’t have to like the players, you can abhor their behavior on the field, but complaining about the documentary because it didn’t contain enough puritanical condemnation is the real bitch-move — not to mention intellectually dishonest.”

You’re projecting and confusing rejection of Miami’s thuggery with complaints about the documentary itself. Make up your mind.

We all have to have our standards (or lack thereof). I guess I’ll be a “bitch” with principles who refuses to endorse or applaud Miami’s legacy of thuggish behavior – it’s pretty clear where you stand as well.

Najeh is a fucking liar. That piece of shit knows he left me in that closet.

“You’re projecting and confusing rejection of Miami’s thuggery with complaints about the documentary itself. Make up your mind. "

Wrong. I am not defending the players or their behavior. Just saying that the documentary shouldn’t be condemned for insufficiently condemning the players.

I don’t applaud “thuggish” behavior from anyone, including football players. But I don’t think that was the focus of the documentary.

“Wrong. I am not defending the players or their behavior. Just saying that the documentary shouldn’t be condemned for insufficiently condemning the players.”

A distinction without a difference in light of your other comments in here.

But hey, it’s the internet, and I can be unaccountably puritanical, old, white, and all that other uncool shit.

On the mismatch of UT vs. Miami in that Cotton Bowl, the example of teams & programs headed in different directions could not have been displayed more aptly than in that game.

The parochial description of UT is spot-on; importantly, there were plenty of issues with player discipline and other problems going on with the UT program at the time as well. Not quite Miami-bad, but significantly worse than what we’re used to under Mack Brown.

The problem was that we were a middling team on the field with a fair number of players with a sense of entitlement and a lack of commitment to achieving excellence on the field. And no accountability. That attitude filtered down from the laziness on the coaching staff, starting at the top with David McWilliams.

Don’t get me wrong – I think McW was/is a good man and wanted to do well, but he was presiding over what was at the time a has-been program in a dying conference that was too married to the old ways to see what needed to change.

Willie Williams just missed his era at the U, poor guy.

Those Miami teams were skilled and talented, without question. However, the university sold its soul to field those fuckers. Eternal hate burns in my heart for Miami.

Ghost – re this: “complaining about the documentary because it didn’t contain enough puritanical condemnation is the real bitch-move — not to mention intellectually dishonest.”

You know, I was going to be more politic, but I won’t be. Your comment is just stupid. I don’t care whether there was any condemnation in the documentary. I really don’t even care that much about the Canes program. They were very successful for a 10-year-period employing unsustainable methods, just like any number of other outlaw programs over the years (Bud Wilkinson at blowU, Switzer at blowU). What’s “intellectually dishonest” is pretending that there was a whole lot more to it than that. “Get fast black guys” was a transformation from the 1970s, not from the Canes program in the 80s.

And as for this – “Switzer was not recruiting underprivileged guys from downtrodden neighborhoods in Norman.” So what? If Switzer had taken his “underprivileged guys” from downtrodden neighborhoods in Norman, rather than Texas, then everything north of the Red River would have been just hunky-dory? Right.

Just because someone doesn’t automatically sign on to the weren’t-they-cool? zeitgeist doesn’t prove anything, and certainly not the “bitch move” “intellectual dishonesty” you think it does.

BE —

I always respect your posts and input, even when we disagree. On this we disagree.

For laughs, feel free to ask any Cotton Bowl Committee members who were around in ’91 about that week; pre-rehab Dennis Erickson and that staff made Leach look like junior high drinkers. That was a wild, wild group, and the self-policing could only last so long.

As a shits & giggles exercise, I’ve always been curious how the ‘90 A&M squad matches up against Miami if we convert that 2 point conversion in Austin. I’ve got to think Davie would have schemed slightly better, but it might not have mattered.

Ghost – fair enough. (How do you feel about whether “San Diego” means “whale’s vagina”?)

No, that, that can’t be right…

It’s interesting, seeing these guys older and wiser, many of them richer, which has an impact. But we’re also seeing the ones who survived. My impression of the Canes at the time was that they were an dangerous animal that needed to be shot. Fortunately, some of them were.

And now we can admire what’s left: an old dog that ain’t gonna bite much.

One other thing that I’m noodling from this documentary:

Does anyone else buy the notion (more than one of them mentioned it) that they were insulted by the whole notion of the “Cotton” Bowl? I can’t remember which one said it, but one of them commented (as they were shown getting off the plane) that they got bolls of cotton in their swag bags and they were pissed off and thought it was condescending and racist.

On the one hand I see it as fairly ignorant given the fiber content of t-shirts literally on their backs, but on the other hand, I can see how someone ignorant might see it that way and be pissed off by the notion.

From Bowfinger:

“Why don’t you try some Shakespeare?”

E. Murphy: “SHAKESPEARE? Like shake a speare? What am I a spear chucker? You saying I’m a spear chucker?”

Or something like that.

“I’ve always been curious how the ‘90 A&M squad matches up against Miami”

If this had happened the “U” would be known as Bucky’s Bitches..

bizzle, pretty sure Texas had already clinched the SWC.

yes they did. atm had lost 1 and tied 1 going into game against undefeated Texas.

atm would have burned more clock with 75 consecutive draw plays up the middle and therefore given up less points to miami. 27-0 or so final score.

The U was a mixed bag, for me. On the one hand, it was fascinating to watch the perfect storm of untapped talent, braggadocio, hip-hop lifestyle come together in a city like Miami.

However, I didn’t find the show all that cohesive. It seemed to jump around quite a bit and a lot of their player interviews were from guys that were still in high school or junior high during the eras they were showing. The player culture is the defining characteristic of The U, and I was hoping they’d talk a bit more about that (all the NFL players returning to Coral Gables every summer).

I don’t think the subject matter would have suffered by capturing both sides of the story. If anything, it made me discount the director’s point-of-view more since it was so pro-Miami.

As much as it pains me to be so nerdy, I (am horrified to say) did see a lot of parallels between the late 80’s early 90’s Miami players and the Fremen from the book Dune.

Bear with me.

The idea in the book is that these people live in such a hard environment that they are essentially badaces just waiting to be unleashed by the right person (Howard Schneffehh…Schnellenn…whatever), and end up taking out all kinds of traditional powers because of their badassery.

I always thought Dune was a portend for the Iraq War.

However, I didn’t find the show all that cohesive. It seemed to jump around quite a bit and a lot of their player interviews were from guys that were still in high school or junior high during the eras they were showing.

I noticed that, too.

It went well with pictures of the Orange Bowl being torn down in 2008 being overlaid with discussion of Butch Davis as coach 10 years earlier.

“It went well with pictures of the Orange Bowl being torn down in 2008 being overlaid with discussion of Butch Davis as coach 10 years earlier.”

Heavy-handed symbolism, my man.

The one part that pissed me off was how they tried to make the ’Canes the ones who brought a city “closer” and “united the community.” The film makers and even the players bought the notion that ’Canes had a bigger purpose and bigger impact than the on the football field. Just laughable and dumb.

trkhorn,
“he took the small hole in the wall Schnellie had made and literally drove a truck thru it.”

…..NO HE DID NOT! Please don’t use literally when you mean figuratively. thanks.

Does anyone else buy the notion (more than one of them mentioned it) that they were insulted by the whole notion of the "Cotton" Bowl? I can’t remember which one said it, but one of them commented (as they were shown getting off the plane) that they got bolls of cotton in their swag bags and they were pissed off and thought it was condescending and racist.

Yeah, that’s when I realized how much the average SAT score went down at Miami when they recruited those guys.

“I see it as fairly ignorant given the fiber content of t-shirts literally on their backs”

-That is how you use it

I thought it played like a U of M TV commercial. Fact is the PSU’s, OU’s and ND’s gave Miami everything they wanted on the field and more back then. The 1990 Horns were a mediocre team that was lucky to have made it that far. Beating them was no great accomplishment. College football is cyclical and Miami caught UT at just the right time. I’d love for them to schedule Miami now.

Miami won 4 MNCs in one decade, Walker. Miami owned the college landscape.

Yes they did … they were the college-football equivalent of strip-mining.

But they were only the best team in two of those years. 1983 and 1991 were gifts from the pollsters and pre-BCS bowl scheduling. Not that this disputes the fact that they were the dominant program of that stretch.

The funny thing is that most computer systems state that they were the best team in 1990.

Who was better than they were in ’91, or was that the year they were co-champs with Washington?

3 of the 4 were won in their home stadium. Nebraska or UT would beaten the 83 Miami team handily at home. Jimmy Johnson was/is a great football mind and the teams of the late 80’s early 90’s were great. Any more dominant than OU in the mid seventees, Nebraska in the mid ninetees, Texas in the late 60’s, Alabama in the late 70’s or USC this decade?? Hardly. They’re one of more than ten great college football dynasties of the 20th century who happened to benefit greatly from a weak conference and playing their title games at home. “The greatest team of all time”. Please.

Yeah, ’91 was the U-Dub split. I remember SI did a write-up for a fake game and had Washington winning, so you KNOW they were better. That UW team was great though, Warren Moon at qb, Lawyer Milloy roaming the secondary, or something.

Walker, spare me the bullshit. I happen to not like Miami, but their domination of the college football landscape was undeniable.
 
Where do you think Texas played for 3 of its 4 MNCs? Yes, the Cotton Bowl. In front of home crowds. And SEC teams played for theirs in the Sugar. And USC in the Rose. Welcome to college football.
 
Miami has 5 AP national titles over a twenty year span, four in a ten year span. And they emerged from nothing. That’s crazy. Trying to poor mouth it is silly.
 
No one said they were “The greatest team of all time.” Go tilt at straw men elsewhere.

“The greatest team of alltime”. Thats what one of their former players said in the documentary which, lets face it, was a piece of propaganda. It also said that Miami played for NCs 8 times in a that time period. They apparently didnt fair nearly as well away from their home stadium(not a stadium 200 miles away) in title games. Also they “emerged from nothing” the same way Florida State and Florida did, two other programs that did basically nothing prior to 1980. This is what naturally happened as the population in Florida grew. I enjoy your writing Scipio Tex. You have greater insight in to Longhorn football than just about any of the major paper sports writers covering the horns. I just dont happen to buy the Miami hype machine. Stick that team in the SEC and they win half that number of NCs. A great team? Certainly. Better than the run Florida or USC has had this decade? Nope.

I think warren moon played at washington in the 70’s, or something. So long ago he might have been the first black starting qb in the Pac 10….

ballrific -
 
Warren Moon was in ’78 or so.
 
The first black Pac 10 QB I can think of would be Vince Evans from USC. Mid 1970s.

Warren Moon played at The Men’s Club. I know that.

Ballrific, that was more a play on the fact that their weren’t any big NFL stars on that team, and Moon and Milloy had the two biggest impacts in the league, atleast off the top of my head. The 91 team was led by Emtmann, Greg Ray, and Mario Bailey if memory serves.

Here’s a list of qb’s. Quite impressive, atleast collegiately. The 91 team was qb’d by Billie Joe Hobert and Mark Brunell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Huskies_starting_quarterbacks

I’m pretty sure Vince Evans is still on the Raiders roster.

The first black Pac 10 QB I can think of would be Vince Evans from USC. Mid 1970s.

I think that NFL Hall of Fame DB Willie Wood was the first African-American QB in the Pac 10.

Wood was the USC starter back in 1959 when they had an incredible offensive line with the McKeever twins (Mike & Marlin) and Ron Mix. He was a running QB, and went undrafted.

Green Bay signed him as a free agent, Vince Lombardi turned him into a free safety and he was an All-Pro five times, played in the first two Super Bowls.

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