Some Thoughts on Jordan Hamilton vs. OU

I think I know sports more than most. I get that the majority of us here are in the 95th percentile or higher. While not the biggest X’s and O’s guy basketball wise, I feel confident in my statement that Jordan isn’t unsynchronizing our offensive plan. He’s a scorer trying to score while the rest of the team is either mishandling the ball, missing lay ups or deferring. Is he a net positive? No. Is he THE problem? Hell no.

His deficiencies defensively are troublesome. Maybe we should sub Gideon him up correctly.

Nobody, should ever mention him transferring again. It’s scary when I have to be the voice of reason.

Gideon in to line him up correctly. 4 hours in on the boozing, with 8 to go.

Having not paid too much attention to the threads that have occurred during the games on this site, I am stunned by the notion of anyone suggestion that Jordan transfer, as magnus has suggested. Is that true? I mean, anyone wanting him to transfer should be flogged. But the sad truth is that it won’t matter whatsoever. Jordan will transfer by his own choice after the year if I had to wager on it.

I’ve only seen Jordan mentioned as a transfer by his choice.

See my comment in the Post-Mortem. I’m not sure what you mean by Coach Fran “frothing at the mouth”—is this a good thing or a bad thing? Anyways, I’m of the opinion that of all the talking heads out there, Coach Fran knows the most about Texas (and Big XII) basketball. Well, actually Bob Knight probably knows the most, he’s just incoherent or rambling about it most of the time.

Anyways, I’m basing this on memory, planning to completely wipe the second half from my brain. What I recall Fran saying is that Jordan is the most dynamic scorer Texas has (agree), but there are times when he absolutely refuses to pass the ball (also agree). Fran’s base for this is coaching him up at something (Jordan classic?), so he’s got a good idea of what Hamilton can and can’t do. If I recall correctly, Fran also loves the Doge, having done a substantial amount of foreign scouting back in his older ESPN days.

Anyways, if you meant frothing at the mouth as a bad thing, I didn’t see it.

I also agree with you. Until the final couple minutes of the second half, when it became apparent that Bradley was gassed and Damion’s confidence was shot, Jordan did a great job playing within the context of the offense. His 3 ball when we were down 5 (I think?) was a good shot and would have been huge if it went in. Sometimes that’s just the way the ball bounces.

I didn’t think you answered this in the thread, but what’s up with Barnes sticking with Jai the entire second half? Why didn’t Brown get more run to “play through his mistakes,” a la Hamilton? Lucas was getting straight up owned on D by Cade freakin’ Davis, and contributing nothing on the offensive end.

If this team were having some fun and playing with a lot of confidence, everybody would be shooting better. Funny, that.

This team is tighter than a HenryJames catamite.

Most competent high school and college coaches will tell you that they want their players to play defense first. If you don’t work hard on the defensive end of the court you will not play. That might explain why he is obviously in the dog house. Barnes is trying to send him a message that will benefit both the student athlete and the team in the long run.

Scipio, please explain further.

Jordan will be transferring to the D league before he transfers to another Div 1 college. Don’t we want to keep him happy to try and get his little bro to come here in a few years?

jc, everytime Hamilton took a shot Frashilla (sp) hammered him for it, even if it was a good one. The coup de gras was openly stating that he didn’t know if he could coach Jordan Hamilton because he shot so much. I like Fran too, but I think he was over the top when it comes to Hamilton.

Trips, I usually love almost everything you write, but in this case I almost unilaterally disagree with everything you said (other than that Hamilton is a horrendous defensive player). Fran knows more about Texas basketball than anybody else in the country not on the staff (and judging by how well they’ve been doing, maybe more than them also). He is already a huge Barnes fan and UT advocate, so for him to spend that much time lambasting one of our players shows how an already biased observer saw the situation and still was disgusted. Jordan was flat-out selfish in that game and he didn’t give a shit whether we won or lost. His slot selection was worse than I could have dreamed, and he was one of the many culprits at the top of the list in the “Who can miss the most lay ups?” contest.

He most certainly was NOT the only reason we lost, but I feel like a lot of your defense of him is based off of your running dispute over JH with iPowers?

Jordan Hamilton was motivated by Kevin being at the OK lite game he wanted to shine for KD.

 I am a fan of Jordan and also Dog have been since Dog arrived at UT. They have regressed IMO as players.

3-15 looks bad I agree with you,but I counted 4 bad shots and 1-2 borderline shots because Jordan shot real early in the shot clock without one pass being made. Any open shot that Jordan takes is a good one if 10-15 seconds off the clock and after a couple of passes. This keeps most of the team involved touching the ball.
I also was yelling at Fran due to his comments about Jordan.
If Jordan was to transfer it would be a huge blow to this program imo, hope it does not happen.

Trips ,what is this shit. "Thoughts without cussing a blue streak and we’ll refrain from putting you on HenryJames’ email list.
Is this a PC comment? Did you not jump the shark a few games back. Is the pressure being put on you by the power brokers? Marketing ? Just asking

Yes, we’ve heard from our copious advertisers. We’re in discussions with Howard Stern about a satellite radio show.

“but I feel like a lot of your defense of him is based off of your running dispute over JH with iPowers? "
Thats a crazy ass statement ! Jordan is a huge talent that is not responding well to Barnes great O scheme.
I am surprised that Jordan has some confidence in his ability to hoop. As we have seen this team is a completly disorganized “TEAM” if you can call it that.

People have opinons of guys just like Dog was shit until we as fans start paying attention to what Barnes was asking of him to do. Now Dog is playing to Barnes but not to his ability to be outstanding.
Trips is usually right on when he talking about basketball , players and most strippers , not so right about all the trim he ropes.
 Not trying to defend trips but ipowers was pushing for better approval rating for his son,Shawn. While both have similar skill sets Jordan is better right now.

Hey there Sailor,
“Howard Stern about a satellite radio show.”
Really Howard Stern does not know shit about basketball. He still thinks Basketball is some Aztec sport played with a human head for giggles.

Blake, that’s cool, reasonable people can disagree. I just wanted to point out that good things happen when he’s driving the basketball and JH even passes the ball at times. In fact, I’ll say he had a better shot selection game against ou than he did against OSU.

Sky, I was joking about the cussing thing. That comment about Howard Stern was fucking funny.

It would be better for the horns to work for a good shot early in the shot clock and shoot the 3’s later in the shot clock. I’d like to see Jordan driving more because he handles well, finishes well, and dishes well. He is also a big guy who can get his shot off inside.

If Dex is in the game, I’d like for the O to be inside out.

Having said that, 15 shots/game sounds about right for Jordan. I like to watch the guy shoot when it is a rhythm shot.

Great thoughts Kafka. Agree 100%.

Agree 100% Trips. We needed more people driving to the paint throwing up shots, if only to exploit our advantages on the interior, which we were doing a poor job utilizing through our half court offense (as usual). No, Jordan didn’t play that well, but yes, he was helpful.

The play that exemplified Jordan’s shortcomings, to me, was in the first half. He got the ball at the wing with James in the low post area and somebody else (don’t remember) in the high post. James went to the baseline/corner area. This left Jordan three options:
1. Feed the high post.
2. Drive hard to the basket and possibly hit James trailing when his man gives help on the drive.
3. Pass back to the point to reset the offense.

What he did instead is dribble around the 3 point line towards James. This cut off any chance he had to get the ball to the high post and eliminated any chance to drive as he manufactured a double team for himself. Granted, James did not react appropriately (should have cut baseline to try and draw his defender off the double team or give Jordan an easy pass with a chance to score). In James’s defense, however, this was way outside the normal offense. After the inevitable turnover Jordan reacted like James was at fault.

I could usually tell when a JH shot wasn’t going to fall before it left his fingers because it wasn’t in the flow. That includes “good” shots.

Again, this goes to having fun and relaxing, for him and the team.

You know, if we hit 2/3 of our freethrows nobody gives a shit about JH’s shot selection.

OK, we care, but not nearly as much.

I don’t think that Jordan Hamilton’s shot selection was the reason we lost.

But, Kafka, I strenuously object to calling him a good finisher. He is possibly the worst 6’7" two guard type finisher that I have ever seen. He doesn’t leap. He shoots one handed runners and floater despite nearly always having a size advantage on his defender. He never takes the ball to the rim.

I have little issue with the throwing up decent range shots to get our rebounders opportunites. I have been praying for Doge to do the same thing all year.

But, runners and floaters are categorically bad shots for 6’7" guys. He needs to stop and pull up or take it to the rim and go to the foul line. Right now, he plays lazy and weak in all phases of the game.

While I don’t think Jordan lost us the game, it did hurt the come back effort when we inserted him in the game just as Avery had gone on a little run. I don’t know that AB saw the basketball the rest of the way after that. We needed to feed the hot hand there.

The only consolation for this is that it will keep him at Texas next year.

Also, I think alot of Frashilla’s commentary was a reaction to Barnes reacting like a felt up 16 year old every time Jordan quick triggered it.

General,

Every now and then Jordan stuffs it (when he gets a running start). It would be nice if he could dunk more often but the reality is that he is not that great at quick leaping. What he does have is a nice touch on those short shots and the ability to get those shots off. Augustin was a great finisher and he never dunked it once. If Jordan gets fouled, he shoots .727 at the line in Big 12 play. He also has an excellent ability to get into the paint off the dribble. I would like to see him fake the 3 much more often to get his defender into the air and then drive into the paint.

It’s real simple. Barnes needs to straight up bitch slap anyone who takes a shot in our half court offense not named Avery Bradley or Dexter Pittman.

Unfortunately, you are right. I wish you weren’t. It would be nice to think that we could actually get a good shoot in a half court set, but the fact of the matter is we can’t with any regularity.

As noted above, the only guys that can get one are Bradley and Dex. Problem is that we can’t get the ball to Dex and if we do Mason and Balbay’s men just triple him since, apparently, the NCAA has mandated that Dex only play with those two on the floor to make it fair for everyone.

Bradley is just too damn passive. Once you go passive for Barnes, you rarely come out of it.
Hamilton has just said to hell with it all. It would be great to get a happy medium between the two, but that would require coaching.

I would still like to see Hamilton and Bradley more out up top. They can handle, the defense has to extend on them. This would open up so much for everyone, but it would require creativity and that doesn’t seem to be a strong suit. Hamilton and Bradley rarely turn it over on drives unlike everyone else on the team. Hamilton’s TOs come off the break and from the outside when he doesn’t know wtf he is supposed to do with the ball.

The belief of our fans that Jordan doesn’t handle or pass well is a myth. His assist/To is much better than Brown, James and Johnson.

The fact of the matter is that we were a better team on Saturday with JH on the floor than we were with him on the bench even with the 3-15. Sad, but true.

Jordan’s handles are fine. A good or even solid finisher, he is not. He, Bradley, and JCB all seem to have te same problems with finishing. They lack upper body strength and try to make the impossible shot instead of the simple layups off the backboard or a dunk. We make our layups OR our free throws and we win that game comfortably, it’s that simple.

I agree about the lack of finish. But, JCB was a very good finisher the first 10 games. Bradley was one of the best finishers in the country as a h.s. senior. JH is a legit 6-8, how hard can it be for him to finish? Why are they so bad? It is not just a strength issue. Nobody on the entire team can close out layups or short js. Balbay does not lack strength or explosiveness, yet the next layup he finishes will be the first in his last 15.

The layups and the FT problems are not the players. It is Barnes. Avery Bradley was a 77% FT shooter in high school. He is shooting 47%. Forty Seven fucking percent. That does not happen if the coach doesn’t get in their head. As a Barnes fan and supporter it pains me to say it, but he has absolutely destroyed this team by crushing the souls of the individuals.

We can sit here and say, “If we make layups and FTs…” But, unless Barnes gets the hell away from the players, we aren’t going to make layups and FTs. It is all on him at this point.

To add more ammo to Barton’s point, this from the Dallas Morning News yesterday:

Not too long ago, a former Lenoir-Rhyne College guard showed it wasn’t that hard. With his players watching, Barnes drained 25 of 25.

“He was like, ‘Even I can make free throws,’ " freshman Jordan Hamilton said. “I thought it kind of made the guys feel bad.”

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/columnists/ccarlton/stories/020810dnspocarlton.385ffc0.html

" Kafka, I strenuously object to calling him a good finisher. He is possibly the worst 6′7″ two guard type finisher that I have ever seen. He doesn’t leap. He shoots one handed runners and floater despite nearly always having a size advantage on his defender. He never takes the ball to the rim."

Exactly. I have never seen a guy that big who consistently goes to the rim as if he is going to get his shot blocked.

Anybody know where can find shot charts for the horns?

The horns are having a harder time finishing in Big 12 play mostly because they are being defended better, i.e. the competition is better. It is harder to finish when your shot is contested and you are getting bumped in the body. You start focusing more on just getting your shot off and no longer concentrate completely on making the shot.

Jordan is listed at 6’7", not 6’8". Most likely he is less than 6’7". My experience is that it is much easier to dunk if you can get at least a one step run up before dunking. To just stand there and leap up and dunk it in traffic from a stand still is way, way tougher. Let us not pretend that Jordan is a leaper.

There is a reason that you see so many big guys shoot jump hooks from in close, even though it is a much tougher shot than a layup: you have confidence that you can get your shot off. The jump hook would be a great shot for Jordan to master. I understand why Jordan sometimes ends up shooting a 3 foot shot rather than a dunk.

A shot chart could persuade me otherwise but for now it looks to me that Jordan has a nice touch on those short shots.

JCB has trouble finishing inside against good competition because he is not big or explosive (dunking the ball is not an option). His main goals inside are to dish or draw a foul. That is completely realistic.

Balbay has not missed 15 straight layups.

Brown, Bradley, and Jordan actually have completely different situations for finishing inside. I explained above why Brown has problems finishing: he has the handle to get inside but not the size or explosiveness to get his shot off. Bradley has the opposite problem: he has the explosiveness to dunk but hasn’t shown the handle to get inside. Jordan has the handle to get inside and can get off a short shot with good touch.

You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.

You miss 61% of every shot you take. Balbay (of all people) shoots 8% better than that.

Trips your bias is amazing. Still can’t call a spade a spade and admit that Jordan is not as good as you all thought he was. SkyMonkey Jordan being better than Shawn is highly debatable, if he has a slight edge it is in the strength department. And for the last time Shawn is not my son. I’m 31 years old, not old enough to have a son in college.