Texas vs. Texas AM Post-Mortem

You impress me. You’re the band that plays as the ship sinks. If I gotta drown, you might as well be in my ear.

Great failings to you if you think supreme pizza beats meatloaf.

Fuck this team.

Thanks. I think.

i don’t understand why we sit dexter when he gets fouls. Has he even fouled out of a game once this year? It’s not like he is helping out on the bench, and he is in good shape.

“I’ll get flayed for this, but I still think we do very little to help Dex’s cause in any given game”

Why would you get flayed for stating something that’s correct? Aside from some sort of emo “They hate me because I speak the TRUTH” kind of thing?

It’s well within the realm of possibility that both Dex and Barnes have completely screwed the pooch this year.

If the fans are mentally and emotionally and physically drained by this year’s proceedings, I can only imagine that the team is as well.

Barnes seems determined to go down with the ship he ran into a reef and set on fire.

As for Rautins and Triche, the first has the benefit of being a senior, and they both have the benefit of playing in a system in which they know exactly what’s expected of them. The biggest thing we lost when Ward went down, IMO, was that a) he had a pretty complete game (especially in comparison to our current “point” “guards” and b) he’d had a year to acclimate to Barnes’ … well, let’s just call it “style”. I have a feeling he could have been a really good buffer between Barnes and the frosh, and provided some sort of bridge between bringing those two apparently incompatible groups.

And while Barnes deserves every bit of criticism coming his way, I also feel for the guy: I’m guessing he’s never had to endure anything close to this year in his coaching career. Let’s hope he’s as capable of late-career epiphanies as Mack Brown is.

Wait, I thought J Brown was supposed to be the answer, and that Balbay getting injured might be the thing that forces Rick to put Brown in that spot to step up.

But now he’s not the answer?

Who is?

I hope Damion has the size and ability to get into the league because of the way he has busted his ass and carried the team through most of the season.

I’m don’t with Dex. Yeah, Barnes may not put him in the perfect postion to exceed, but he needs to step up and do something on his own. He just seems too soft and passive… actually, everytime I look at him I see a black Hall. He just needs a golden cowboy hat to complete the look.

Hmmm…..Meatloaf….

I actually like Meatloaf. I don’t like watching this team, though. I’ve been holding out hope that we would somehow “get it” late in the season and at least get into the 2nd weekend of the tourney. At this point, avoiding a first round loss would be great.

CrazyJoe with a good post. I’ve been pining all year for Ward. He has a complete game or at least the most complete of any perimeter player we have (doesn’t really shoot well beyond 16 or 17 feet). We don’t help Dexter much, this is true. Dexter doesn’t help Dexter is the bigger point. He’s a senior and he plays with the basketball acuity of a freshman…..in high school. Even when he gets the ball 5 feet from the rim, he has trouble scoring.

However, I basically lost it when Jordan was taken out of the game for a bad possession at both ends of the court only to insert Jai who then gets a TO and then plays lousy transition defense. Barnes really lost me on this call. Hamilton has arguably been his 3rd best player the past 3 weeks and Rick still treats him like we have a full complement of perimeter players and Jordan hasn’t progressed. It’s ridiculous coaching. Jordan is giving effort and embracing patience, let him play through a few mistakes.

JCB is the real disappointment. I hope he’s okay, but when Dogus went down he HAD to step up and he’s been terrible. He a terrible shooter, he still makes bone head decisions and he’s lazy and slow on defense, something that’s not going to improve. He’s always going to be a defensive liability. I have no problem thinking JCB will be a pretty good contributor for us down the road but after watching him this year, shame on us and Rick for thinking he was going to be a major contributor for us this year. He’s doesn’t understand how to play ball at this level yet. Hamilton seems to have gotten it, JCB will have to wait for next year but most likely his junior year. It’s laughable to think he has any type of pro prospects with his lack of quickness.

Gary, Damion, and AB all played poorly but they give max effort almost every game. Shame they all played terribly today. Props to the Aggies for shooting lights out and wanting to rebound more than we did today….

Winning is overrated. We are trying to develop NBA players here!

The two main reasons the horns lost were because they hit less than 37% of their shots and had 9 fewer rebounds than the aggies. It is amazing that a team with 6 good to excellent scorers has this much trouble scoring against a good D. The horns under Barnes are usually not (never?) a good passing team and don’t use much motion or screening. This really puts a lot of pressure on the horns to dribble well and create. That is good for individual skill development but tough to do well against a good D.

On D, it had to be painful for the horns to have to fight through all those screens. The aggies had a huge schematic advantage on O.

I have not rewatched the game so I don’t know why Damion only got 1 rebound. I guess A&M really focused on blocking out Damion.

I’ve reached the tipping point. I’m now willing to echo the sentiments that many posters have espoused 5 or 6 games ago. I give up. I’ll still watch and I still pull for my Horns, but I’m done being emotionally invested in this team. Which is a damn shame given where I was with this team 16 games into the season.

I think next year is a make or break year for Barnes. Oh I don’t mean in terms of job security, because frankly given how well he’s out performed his predecessors I don’t think that will ever be an issue (barring a major collapse of course). I’m referring more to the idea that Texas basketball would ever be more than the occasional distraction between the football and baseball seasons for the blue hairs and casual Texas fan. There was genuine, real, borderline fanatical anticipation of this basketball season amongst a majority of the populous of UT fans for the first time I can ever remember. (And this began during a football season in which Texas would play for the national title!) I think it’s safe to say that any momentum Barnes had gained in his own fan base, has been extinguished. Texas fans are nothing if not demanding. Failing to live up to expectations so spectacularly is not something we take kindly to. Should we fail to live up to expectations next season (whatever they may be), I predict we will have seen the last of Longhorn basketball’s relevance. Perhaps not on a national level, but almost certainly amongst our own fan base.

Here’s the thing that’s perhaps most frustrating for me personally. This is the most talent Rick Barnes will ever have. I don’t know that there’s anyone who would really argue this point. So, given that this is the most talent we will ever have here (at least under the current regime), and we have failed to capitalize, where exactly are we going with this program. I was under the assumption that we were looking to win a championship with Barnes. Given his recent quotes, and our recent results, I’m becoming more and more convinced that a championship just isn’t going to happen with Barnes. So what then? Do we enjoy the occasional elite eight run, frequent sweet 16 trip, and ratchet down our expectations to being on the fringe of the elite? If that’s where we’re shooting for than we really can’t complain, nor can the administration complain when Texas fails to sell out the drum for Long Beach State. If we’re aiming for more than that, then what’s the solution? I honestly don’t know at this point. What I do know is that one of the saddest things to watch through all this has been Rick Barnes himself. He just doesn’t look like he’s enjoying himself like he has in the past. And rather than change anything in his approach to try and find something that works, he’s actually dug in his heels even more, and as a result, made himself completely miserable.

Nothing much to add here except that with the A&M game, there was still a sinew of hope left to salvage this season. After the game I now think it’s time to unplug the machine and let it go. Great article, BTW.

Texas vs Stanford @ 1 today. High 60’s and sunshine pumpin.

How many post-mortems can be done on a corpse?

You and I disagree about the talent level on this team. Your post says we are oozing with talent but then goes on to admit we only have one guy—-one guy—who can create his own shot. I’ll dispute that with you as well as I have seen little evidence JH can create anything.

I certainly don’t think RB has done a very good job with this team but Lucas, Bradley, Hamilton and Brown are not great players yet. Good, not great. Further, each of them has an issue that may keep them from ever being great. Lucas: short and weak; Bradley, cannot create shot; Hamilton; non-existent bb IQ; Brown, wow, pick one.

check the stats, Aggie big men have dominated in rebounding in almost every game this year, especially on the offensive end. and they did pay special attention to Damion James. that was no accident.

Turgeon has done an incredible job. he is winning games with Meatloaf.

he’s a couple missed free throws from beating WVU, Texas on the road, New Mex,
at Baylor,and about to finish 5 spots higher in the B12 standings, and all this without the leagues best defender, with a PG injured @ 50%, and without the C that was supposed to come back this year.

I’m wondering if J’Covan has hit a freshman wall. We have to remember that it was a long and rocky road for him to get here, and he didn’t play last year. Hopefully, he appreciates what he did to get here and doesn’t just quit after coming this far.

Having said that, Jordan traveled a similar road, but not as rocky, and he’s starting to “get it.”

Trips,
Meat loaf is good for you. The band is tight makes good music if you like that sort of music.
 
Damo has been playing much smaller since Gary Johnson made the statement that that some players have to do it all. I know it was directed to Jordan and JCB but I also think that Damo took some of it to heart.
Talent wise I think your spot on. The Freshmen were a proven trio when they came to Texas against much better players then they face today. This can be argued on both sides but its hard to play with no confidence in their ability to do right as seen by the wizard of Austin.

Your comparision to Arinze Onuaku is also correct the only thing that makes him better is the O scheme and confidence a close second.

The only thing that I miss with Varez it’s not his game skill set it ,his fearless attitude and swagger. To me he has never looked scared or beaten while here at Texas. His mental toughness that he had even before he came to Texas. His game is OK good he has some skills. But that is not the issue that the team faces.

Barnes made a statemnet about not communicating well and being inconsistant this year and did not throw anybody under the bus. JCB already was at the hospital I hope he is doing well.
I hope that Barnes has taken the first step to getting better and not dug in his heels deeper.

I have not even looked at the stats but how many 3’s did we take. Jordan was even passing up several 3’s to drive and pass , even late in the game. I do not know what the players were told to do but we can not pass up open 3’s in any game.
FMA makes a lot of sense but to be a fan we have to stick with the team in thick or thin seasons but the crazies did come out of their cells when we were playing fast and loose in the early part of the season.
Kafka your right about the screening O scheme it was tight and they put a body on people.

“If the fans are mentally and emotionally and physically drained by this year’s proceedings, I can only imagine that the team is as well.
Barnes seems determined to go down with the ship he ran into a reef and set on fire.”

I think that you are right about the team and Barnes . I hope that Barnes tries something different even with fewer players to deal with. Maybe it was time for a break , everyone taking a deep deep breath and stepping back a few feet..

Pittman needs to be left in the game and learn how to play with fouls. Him getting 13 minutes does nothing for us. If he fouls out then so be it.

Barnes has lost me for good. His brand of development and discipline is asinine. He’s wasted so much talent while at Texas. For anyone wanting to defend Barnes let me ask you this: If Izzo/Few/Boeheim/Calhoun/Wright/Dixon/Williams/Calipari/Krzyzewski etc. had this team do you think we would be 5-7 in our last 12 games?

“This is the most talent Rick Barnes will ever have. I don’t know that there’s anyone who would really argue this point.”

This point is incorrect, IMO. We had more talent 4 years ago. We had more talent with Aldridge, Gibson, and PJ.

This team has some talented players, no doubt. But it’s not just about who can make an NBA roster but it’s also the quality of that talent. Durant’s an all-star and was easily the best player in college basketball, but he was young. Aldridge is a starter in the league and on the all-star future fringes. This team doesn’t have one singular talent like those two.

Hamilton maybe, but he’s going to struggle at the next level on defense. He’s not quick even for a guy 6’7" and his handle is average for wing player. He has good range but needs to become a more consistent shooter and he doesn’t have a midrange game, it’s either shoot a three or get to the rim, a common failing for a young player. He’ll struggle to create his own shot at the next level. He still has a place in the league if he can get some things together though.

Damion with his athleticism and rebounding prowess can be a valuable bench player in the NBA, but most likely nothing more unless he goes to a Golden State or something. No handle and undersized for a 4. AB is another guy that needs time. He plays great, tenacious defense but he also struggles with the ball in his hands and where does he play? 6’3" and he’s quick, but not ultra quick. He needs to stay and work on his ballhandling skills. Great mid range game. He’ll play somewhere.

Dexter is tougher to form an opinion on. He’s a hard worker evidenced by his weight loss and you can’t teach size. It’s harder to collapse on post players in the NBA. But he’s slow, not explosive off the ground and doesn’t have good passing skills or basketball IQ.

In short, we have 2 guys that are bench strength in the NBA and I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re not in the league in 3 years. Hope not, but it wouldn’t shock me. 2 guys that are young, but they aren’t NBA impact players nor are they starter material locks. They could make themselves into that perhaps. We have a lot guys that can play but no one that’s NBA outstanding at this time. You could make that statement the first time you saw Durant or Aldridge play.

Great post Trips.

I know this sounds like I’m being a defeatist but the game was over in my opinion when Dexter was called for a ridiculous foul about 45 seconds into the game. I’m not asserting the refs were why we lost, but it appears the only way this team can generate offense is to have Dex wrecking shit down low. When he gets a cheapie called against him he gets in a funk and plays tentative and stupid.

Basketball is about passing, it’s about movement, it’s about getting the ball to your best players in spots where they can be successful. Our team doesn’t do any of these things. Does Barnes even coach offense? He is the anti Mike Leach.

flamingmonkeyass hits the nail on the head.

I remember a post before the season saying that it looks like J’Covan Brown might be our best player. That seems like a long time ago.

This guy finally wrote something worth while to read. Barnes is stepping up, good for him. Barnes is “getting it”.

http://www.statesman.com/sports/longhorns/barnes-theres-nobody-to-blame-but-me-298476.html

Trips – thank you for being one of the few people in history to use the word “nonplussed” correctly in a sentence.

I understand why you keep defending JH — outside of DJ he is the only one who is willing to seek his own offense — but he’s a perfect fit to your analogy. Rick is ordering pizza for him every night and he’s eating snacks. It has to drive RB crazy to keep telling him to stop taking those atrocious jumpers, but he KEEPS DOING IT!

It pisses you off when your kids eat the snacks, right?

It doesn’t really matter that Jai gets subbed for him and produces little. If JH keeps taking dumb shots, we’re going to lose anyway. He might as well try (again) to coach the kid.

I’m with ransom and Patrick Bateman on this one, we simply don’t have the talent that we were led to believe. The 2003 team was more talented as were the 2005 and 2008 teams. Those teams matchup well against us this year, and would likely take 9 of 10 against this team. Each one had an individual player that is leaps and bounds better than anyone we have now, and a cast of role players that were much more complete than what we have now. They played better defense and shot the ball better.

Avery Bradley may step up and be a lottery pick, but he has to be more aggressive as a scorer. I’ll disagree with ransom in saying that Bradley can’t create his own shot. Bradley has a beautiful side step or step back midrange jumper that he can get most any time he wants, the problem is a lack of want. He seems hesitant to take the spotlight, even though it is clear he has the most upside of any player on the team. To answer Bateman, Bradley’s biggest hurdle in getting to the NBA is indeed his height as a SG, or his handle as a PG depending on how they look at him. Westbrook’s ability to play PG for the Thunder and Curry’s great play this year for the Warriors do a great job of helping Bradley’s NBA stock. I think he will be a good pro one day, and those two players are hopefully opening the eyes of NBA GMs to that fact.

You can say what you want about our system or personnel hurting Pittman, but I gotta agree with those here that say the biggest thing hurting Pittman is Pittman. There is no excuse for him to be averaging less than 5 boards per game since conference play started, regardless of any other factors. You can point at any number of things for scoring, but rebounding is 100% on him. If 6’6" Gary Johnson can manage to do better than him on boards, there is no excuse. It shows a lack of effort for someone his size to pull 0,1 or 2 rebound games. To do it consistently shows a weakness, and it would be foolish to say the same thing isn’t holding back his offense.

I agree Slugfest. It is clear that Barnes told Hamilton quite a while back he was gonna sit after a stupid shot. For a few games there Hamilton dared Barnes to pull him, which Barnes gladly did. Hamilton has started to look all world by actually listening to Barnes, and I’m sure Barnes has made it clear he will get all the PT in the world until he jacks up a horrible shot. If Barnes were to let up on Hamilton he would regress, because Hamilton still hasn’t fully bought into the idea of playing the team sport of basketball.

It doesn’t really matter that Jai gets subbed for him and produces little. If JH keeps taking dumb shots, we’re going to lose anyway. He might as well try (again) to coach the kid.

I disagree. Hamilton and Bradley need to be getting a ton of minutes from here on out.

Jordan, when given more rope, seems to better grasp when his shots are good ones. Yesterday he actually over-passed a time or two. When he thinks “I’m going to only get a few minutes…”, he starts heaving.

He’s also the one guy on our team who seems like a real candidate to have a game like he had at Ok State.

I’d start him and coach him up while he’s on the floor.

I think J’C has run out of gas. I liked a lot of what I saw from him early in the year. I think he’s going to be a very good player, if he’s willing to put in the time with Todd Wright and do a lot of ball handling drills.

It is clear that Barnes told Hamilton quite a while back he was gonna sit after a stupid shot. For a few games there Hamilton dared Barnes to pull him, which Barnes gladly did.

It took Todd Wright calming him down to keep Barnes from pulling him at Stillwater, in which Hamilton carried the team to victory, but Barnes was still ticked off, as he should have been.

In many ways, this has been Barnes’s fault. By preventing Mason and Balbay from playing complete offense, he exacerbated the problem of getting Pittman loose. By requiring (as opposed to merely demanding) that Brown and Hamilton play D and give effort every day, he cut their minutes and hampered their development. I’m not saying this was an easy choice, but he knows now that he needed those guys, and they weren’t ready in part because of how he handled the team.
 
I now can point to ways in which Hamilton has gotten it, and Brown still hasn’t. One egregious play, which was mentioned yesterday, was how Harris took Brown on the baseline. When the shot went up, Brown meandered toward the lane to look for the rebound. When the rebound went long to the corner (not his fault), Brown went out to meet Harris. But he gave him room on the baseline, and Harris took it, leading to a hoop that A&M should not have gotten. Even I know that you put your foot out of bounds if you have to in order to avoid giving up the baseline. Just a dreadful play.

I’m with ransom and Patrick Bateman on this one, we simply don’t have the talent that we were led to believe.

No, that’s the problem. There is talent out there. Bradley was a blur last year. He handled the ball, went from end to end in a flash, like you see Wall do every game. He showed that he could guard Wall (not shut him down, but guard him).

You can tell that Hamilton is an all-around talent. He handles the ball, can get to the hoop in traffic, and he has the jumper to keep people honest. And he can pass the ball. He might be the most talented all-around player they’ve ever had, since I never got to see Slater Martin or Larry Robinson.

Brown’s more of a project, because he’s not that quick, but he shown the ability to see the floor and pass. He’s not nearly the ballhog we were led to believe. He shoots in the flow of the offense, and he can get to the basket.

But all three of these guys have had their instinct coached out of them. How did that happen (he asked rhetorically)?

Bradley has been encouraged only on defense, which he plays well. His offense has been limited to 12- to -15-foot jumpers. His occasional drives are ineffective because he’s not finishing, and since hitting six of seven threes against Nebraska, he’s made only 3 of 17.

Hamilton, having relaxed the instinct to fire when he sees the orange of the rim, has become a better player. But he’s still clearly working within the confines of Barnes’s demand that he take it to the hole first.

Barnes probably is right that Brown isn’t really ready to be the PG, but he doesn’t have a choice. He needs him out there some of the time for the shooting and driving threat that he can be.

The point is that these guys are talented, but they’re not using their talent. That’s the coach’s fault. Pittman may be a head case — I’ll pass on a stronger description — but Barnes had the responsibility to find ways to get him the ball when other teams started double-teaming him and it worked.

To me, the focus of the problems on this team are the free throw shooting. Pittman’s always been a little wobbly (in terms of performance), but there is no way in the world that Bradley should be avoiding contact because he’s shooting 50 percent, and Hamilton is shooting 54. God knows what Rick’s been telling them. But I know that one of the things that he hasn’t been saying the last two years is, “Relax and trust your talent,” because we can see by performance that that’s not happening.

Looking back, I think the worst thing that could have happened to this team was winning the way they did against UNC and MSU. It reinforced in Rick’s mind that he had the right ideas, and he wound up focusing on his players to the point that he lost focus on what everyone else was doing to them.

I can’t get myself to give up yet, even though I reached the anger point with about 10 minutes to go against Missouri, turning off the TV and going to bed.

I’ll be interested to see how RB reaching the point of a public mea culpa will change the team’s attitude in the next three weeks. I suppose it can’t get any worse.

Before the season, I predicted this would be Barnes’ biggest coaching challenge because rather than having one guy dominate the ball and organize the O, he had 6 guys who could all score. Since Barnes does not run a structured O, how would he organize his O so that the scorers all get their share of good shots and there weren’t a lot of selfish bad shots taken? Barnes’ approach was to yell at the players, especially the frosh, when they took a bad shot.

Barnes was not up to the challenge. He never figured out how to get the ball to Dex or take advantage of the double teams that Dex always commands. Damion, Gary, Jordan, and Brown all tended to be a bit selfish wrt to shooting because they had too much autonomy in Barnes’ free style O. When 4 or 5 players think they are in a contract year, chemistry goes out the window. Young people can only handle so much autonomy.

If you want players to be disciplined in their shot selection, let the O define acceptable shots. A more structured O leads to much better shot selection, less friction between coach and players, and less confusion for the players. It also makes it more difficult for the opponent to pressure you defensively since you put the D on the defensive by forcing to worry about motion, screens, cuts, and passes. The downside is that it supposedly hurts recruiting of the 1 and done superstar. That’s OK with me.

A more structured O would permit Barnes to recruit bigger, less offensively polished but more athletic players who can really run, bound and D up but need a structured O to generate shots for them because they can,t generate their own shot.
 
Barnes needs to think deeply about how he screwed up Mason. Mason should have been an awesome player but Barnes destroyed his confidence.

I was disappointed we didn’t win by 20. It was over when you guys started jacking 3’s with about 5 minutes left. Still plenty of time to rally and beat us like Kansas did …but then again you ain’t Kansas.
 At the start of this season would you have traded any of your starters for ours? Maybe you would have wanted Roland for his defense but you would have passed on everyone else including Sloan. Now the only guys from your team I’d want are Pittman and James and I’d bring sexy Dexie off the bench and start Davis.

Good news Davis and Sloan graduate and go to Europe to play with Elonu.
Bad news Dash is getting better, BJ returns along with Lobeau and your new nightmare Turner. Wait till he gets coached up.

we are nowhere close to as talented as we thought we were going into the season but we are more talented than all but a few of the teams we have played. our guys just don’t seem to care or want to work hard enough to be a winning team. 17-0 might have been the worst thing to happen to these guys. they got too much confidence without really beating anyone and now they think they should win by putting out that effort. there is no leadership to tell them otherwise and anything RB says goes out the other year because all the frosh think he’s a dick.

RB seems to be at the point Mack was at in 2004. He chose not to let the team have fun and this is what happens. Mack was much smarter.

“You can tell that Hamilton is an all-around talent. He handles the ball, can get to the hoop in traffic, and he has the jumper to keep people honest. And he can pass the ball. He might be the most talented all-around player they’ve ever had, since I never got to see Slater Martin or Larry Robinson.”

Sorry, can’t go there with you. Having different skills doesn’t translate to being more talented. Are you trying to say he’s the most versatile player we’ve had? Perhaps I’m just misunderstanding. Durant is/was twice the talent that Jordan is. Jordan can shoot, he can handle the ball a little, and I agree that he’s a better passer then he’s been credit for, but he’s nowhere near the talent that Durant or Aldridge or even TJ was. Again, he lacks quickness and top level explosion. He really has no mid range game and doesn’t post well. And that only discusses half of the game, defensively he’s a train wreck. I’m not trying to dog Hamilton. He has a plethora of talent and if that talent can be harnessed and taught the game then I think he can be very good, but he’s nowhere near pro ready. Durant was pro-ready out of high school and his upside is much bigger than Jordan’s, mainly because of talent.

AB is very good but his inability to put the ball down and get to the rim and finish, especially in traffic, against college level players is evident. He gets his shot stuffed or the ball stripped a ton. I love his mid range game, defense, and he’s a better long range shooter than he showed in HS, but his penetration skills need major improvement, especially if he has designs on the next level where he’ll be undersized.

JCB is probably the one that we put too much pressure on. A lot is Barnes’ fault. He’s the one that came out and said JCB was the best player in scrimmages early. I think JCB can be a very good offensive player in time, but expecting major production and/or leadership from a slow, short guard with a poor shot and no defensive skills is curious at best. He can do a lot of good things. He has what we would call a “junk” offensive game, but he has good court vision, gets to the rim and plays tough, but he’s a 4 year player and I think expectations were unfair to him.

I actually think if all three of these guys come back next year, that they’ll be much stronger players and make significant improvements. AB may have the leap forward that DJ had. Jordan could develop into our strongest offensive player. We still are going to have major defensive holes next year and I wonder who will rebound other then Gary. Once again, are we going to put a ton of pressure on a freshman to control a major component of the game? Is TT expected to guard the rim and rebound with upperclassman? I worry about that…..Getting another wing player in Shawn Williams will help but I think we’re going to miss Bejarano, a 6’5" wing a lot…..Then again, Barnes seems to do better when expectations are measured.

Very interesting post. But, syracuse has an “older” team Andy Rautins is actually a 5 year senior he had an acl injury and had to miss an entire year. We have been spoiled as college basketball fans the last 5 to 10 years to witness freshman phenoms like Kevin Durant, Micheal Beasley, Derrick Rose, Eric Gordon, Carmelo Anthony etc; to the point that we expect everyone to automatically step right in and dominate the game it just doesn’t work that way. Everyone that receives playing time on Syracuse is basically a senior or junior; Wesley Johnson is basically a senior since he had to sit out a year after he transferred so the syracuse players are a lot more mature and developed players; the only young player on Syracuse is Triche that gets playing time. I am just glad to see that people are finally starting to question Rick Barnes as a coach. I have be questioning some of his horrible coaching methods since the 03 final four team which was without question the deepest Texas team ever that Barnes manage to screw up. Texas just doesn’t have any chemistry plus with no point guard and they aren’t an cohesive unit that mixed in with Rick Barnes terrible coaching equals a bad season. Every time Texas takes the court as Texas Fans we have to understand they we may have better talent but the opposing team has the better coach; sometimes thats the difference.

I still can’t believe any of you are questioning the level of talent on this team. 17-0 proved that we have talent in spades, more of the athletic and basketball variety we’ve had collectively ever. The fact that we are essentially 6th in the B12 is a travesty, and it falls on Barnes shoulders. He recruited those guys. He doles out the minutes. He sets up the O and D system. If 1 or 2 freshmen were struggling I could maybe say it is their fault but at this point the whole team for the last 2 years has underachieved. The problem is systemic like the Horns running game in football. You can always blame players for lack of execution, but when Stoops does that we as Horns fans call it a cop out or throwing his guys under the bus. Now we have people supporting Barnes for doing the same thing Stoops does, bitching out players for every little thing they do wrong. The fact is Barnes is the one does this for a living. He needs to step up.

Andy Rautins is light years a better college bball guard than JCB.

I thought losing Abrams would be addition by subtraction but with JH, we have someone just like AJ, which is not a good thing.

Mona,

Who’s saying Barnes isn’t culpable? Or at the least responsible for a large portion of the disappointment of this season? But to hold one individual solely responsible for the collapse of this team’s season to date seems naive’ at best. Rarely is the disappointing performance in a group dynamic a singular problem so easily diagnosed. The buck stops with Rick and he’s been fairly poor throughout the season. However, to excuse the players from accountability is a disservice to not only the program, but the players as individuals.

You’re also hearing two separate debates. Some are arguing the measure of culpability of the differing individuals at hand. Some are arguing with the assertion that this team’s talent level was the best in Rick’s tenure. Just need to pull them apart.

No one, I don’t think, is happy with this season or the results. You are very much correct that 6th in the Big 12 is an extreme disappoint and shouldn’t be acceptable considering the overall talent level that’s been assembled.

From a missed expectations standpoint, this is the most painful season I can remember – ever.

’The buck stops with Rick and he’s been fairly poor throughout the season. However, to excuse the players from accountability is a disservice to not only the program, but the players as individuals. "

To what degree of accountablity do you hold the Players. To hear the yelling is a common thing with young players, some one telling you that you are a crap player all the time erodes the confidence of the strongest players. How do you hold players acountable if the coach is not accountable for the methods being used that set up the situation in the first place. The thing is if it was just the freshmen but its the whole team that are scared to trust their instincts and talent that has gotten them to a D-1 university. The whole team is timid and thinking what to do before they do it. I guess there is enough blame to go around but who is in charge , the staff or players.
Barnes needs to reevaluate how and why he has coached mad for the last 2-3 years.

Patrick, did you really just say Jordan Hamilton was the best player texas ever had??? You, should be banned from posting comments for making that ridiculous statement.

Patrick, yes, “versatile” probably is the word I was looking for.

The “instincts” that these young guys had that got them here are really the core of the problem. When we struggle with our freshmen on the floor it is poor defense, ugly offense and selfish play. “And One” ball, AAU ball. Whatever you want to call it. The idea that these players can chuck up shot after shot and get near 30 points while we lose is the wrong mentality for them to have, and it is silly for the fans to see it as anything other than reinforcing bad habits.

If Hamilton’s instincts are to make fans, announcers and coaches laugh at his selfish play; those instincts should be quelched. If his instincts push him to a 27 footer with a hand in his face and 30 seconds left on the shot clock, they should be repressed. A player of his seasoning, conditioning, talent and credibility should not be shooting a shot a minute. If Brown’s instincts are to throw the difficult, low probability “showboat” pass and it leads to yet another turnover and easy points for the other team, yeah, lets put a stop to it. If he feels the best thing to do after a miss shot is whine to the refs as the other team is pushing the ball down the floor, those instincts aren’t working out.

These guys go out and run like its a pickup game and we find ourselves on the wrong side of a 14-2 run. This happens game after game, and it doesn’t happen when they are careful with the ball and playing as a team. Their “instincts”, or more accurately, their habits aren’t doing us favors as a team.

We had high expectations for this team because we thought the young guys would take us far. Barnes has said himself we go as far as those guys carry us. They struggle to play with the IQ of a high school hoopster, and its little wonder we aren’t happy with the results.

John Wall and Demarcus Cousins came to Kentucky with much more AAU baggage than Hamilton and Bradley. But that’s really beside the main point.

The AAU/inexperience excuse is a tired one, especially when you try to apply it to the regression of experienced guys like Dexter Pittman, Justin Mason, Doge Balbay, Alexis Wangmene, Clint Chapman, Connor Atchley, Matt Hill, etc.

Rome’s burning, and a lot of folks are playing the inexperience fiddle.

Skymonkey,

Don’t understand your point. Once again, who’s not holding Rick accountable? He’s very much responsible as the HC for the performance of this squad. His obvious difficulty with offensive scheme (I still don’t think we’ve discussed the terrible decision to run D’Antoni’s scheme, without a dominant PG and a less than fleet big man, enough), inability to mesh the different personalities of the freshman with the upper classman, and headscratching sub patterns have very much influenced the poor production of this team. As far as the verbal abuse to the players, I can’t attest to. I certainly have read the various rumors, but reading your description makes him seem a little more like a cartoon character. Rick may need more of guiding and gentle hand, but I don’t know if he’s calling his freshman: Shitbag #1, shitbag #2, shitbag #3 every time they’re within earshot. Perhaps you know differently.

Mo,

I’ll see what I can do about getting banned. Although perhaps you should read a little more closely before we start throwing around perma-bans.

BiH,

Gotcha. I still respectfully disagree, but I think that moniker is a little more up for debate.

Egg,

Good post. It’s not a players OR Rick thing for this team’s performance. It’s an “and” thing.

I thought Rick found Jesus a few years ago? No? I have no clue how he treats people and the kids. But the FT’s problem is the most glaring SYMPTOM of something deeper and darker in the way he communicates with the players. Mason is the other glaring issue and the Conner A. Disappearance act last year. ( That may have been a personal family issue maybe not) I would have sworn I saw him scream at AB at a missed good 3 @ Tech. If the dude is gonna yell at every little deal you eventually just shut down. Turgeon and drew are kicking his ass and he knows it. Maybe he is in over his head and he sees competent good coaches in the conference and he knows he is toast because he doesn’t have the expertise we all thought? Peter principle? We really deserve a top notch technically sound BB coach that has the personal skills to handle talent. .

The thing that really pissed me off about yesterday’s game was that I have 5000 channels thanks to satellite TV and I couldn’t finf anything to watch that would keep me from going back to that shithole of a game. I ended up watching Dumb and Dumberer which tells you how desperate I was to watch anything besides Texas getting their ass kicked (again) by A&M.

There has been a shit storm over the percieved “Fire Rick Barnes” crowd that has emerged as a result of this season. I wouldn’t say that I want Rick fired, but if the Kentucky’s of the world come calling again, at this point I’ll be a lot less worked up about it than I was last year. Whatever the ultimate problem is with this team, it all goes back to the coaching.

I’d like to hear about the verbal abuse rumors. I had not heard that although it would not surprise me.

Patrick,
Never said you were not holding RB accountable, I question to what degree are the players accountable.

“but reading your description makes him seem a little more like a cartoon character. "

That is your description not my words. My words describe an angry HC that yells alot when teaching the finer points of basketball. If you have nothing but negative for young players / or a team the confedence erodes and they look crappy playing the game. Just like anything else nothing but Neg. and teams play down to what they hear.

“I guess there is enough blame to go around but who is in charge , the staff or players.
Barnes needs to reevaluate how and why he has coached mad for the last 2-3 years.”

The last two sentences in my post indicates that it is truly a “and” thing but like Barnes stated “The buck stops with me” I see that a step in the right direction.

If you think Texas has four of the top 100 players in the country, and Syracuse has zero, you’re dreaming or tripping…not sure which.

Blake, I’m talking about recruiting rankings.

Sky,

“some one telling you that you are a crap player all the time erodes the confidence of the strongest players.”

That is the passage I was responding to. I don’t subscribe to absolutes. I doubt very much that Barnes is bashing them all the time. Is Rick a taskmaster? Absolutely. A screamer? Probably. Coaching mad? Don’t know if it’s much different than other years. Actually if you read some things, specifically his treatment of Damion, then it would seem he’s been skewing in the other direction, but that may be an isolated incident. I admit that I’m not around the team enough to know. I was disappointed to read Vasherized practice report.

I hold the players accountable in respect to how I treat most young adults. I judge them on their actions, their effort, and their ability to learn. Will they make mistakes? Absolutely, but it’s no excuse in a team sport to forgo effort or the ability to learn from mistakes even with negative reinforcement. Some of our players give lazy effort. This is different from being physically limited. Some players can’t do certain things defensively because they’re just not strong enough or quick enough. But that’s not an excuse for being lazy in transition defense, or blocking out or moving without the ball. Honestly, I’ve never seen such lazy effort on a Rick Barnes team and I used to watch his Clemson teams. Have some of them had low bball IQ? Yes, but lack of effort? Not sustained like this. I have a hard time thinking that Rick is okay with this effort. It’s his inability to know how to cope with this lack of effort that I think has been one of his failings.

In the end, we’re probably agreeing more then we’re not. Both are frustrated fans trying to figure out why we have underachieved so greatly…..

“I have no clue how he treats people and the kids”

Like shit. He treats them like shit. To the point where the older guys tell the younger guys to just ignore him. And then he wonders why he’s not getting through to them.

So yeah, this is all on Barnes. One day we’re going to look back at this collection, where a guy like Gary Johnson is our 5th or 6th best player, and wonder what the fuck happened.

nordberg -

Why is it so many of these guys have such a bond with him? Why does Kevin Durant choose to come back and hang with Rick and the team? Why do our NBA alums all come back and work out at Denton Cooley?

Something is amiss.

I doubt Rick Barnes was all that mean to Durant or Ford. Guys like Royal Ivey, who could play the way he wanted, probably got treated pretty well, too.

But I do know how much the team hated him after last year, and I know a bunch thought about transferring. It is my own opinion that Barnes teaches a certain way to play a certain way, and if it doesn’t work then fuck you, it’s your fault.

I heard or read about him saying that he tried to go back and watch a loss on tape but turned it off after 3 minutes because he was so angry. Doesn’t seem like the type of guy that has the patience to deal with someone like Hamilton or Brown. We might just be better off recruiting no-name inner city kids who need a figure like him instead of massive talents that mostly need a teacher of basketball. He seems to be alright in one role and glaringly deficient on the other.

Yes, but lack of effort? Not sustained like this. I have a hard time thinking that Rick is okay with this effort. It’s his inability to know how to cope with this lack of effort that I think has been one of his failings.

If he’s been beating the horse as much as everyone says, ultimately it stops moving.

While he worried about losing the team because he didn’t treat the freshmen like he treated the upperclassmen when they were freshmen, it seems like he may have lost the team anyway.

What’s odd about it, though, is that it appears they’re still trying to do what he wants… it’s just not instinctive.

(musing) Could be that the personality that Eddie Reese saw a decade ago and tried to correct has just popped up in another way.

Thing is, I know there are a lot of successful screamers. My understanding is that Calhoun does it. When I saw Larry Brown playing the taskmaster way back in the day in the “Mister Robinson’s neighborhood” commercials, "I said to myself, “He’s not acting.”

I understand that we’re talking about the highest level, and you have to break eggs to make an omelet. But this team’s in bad shape for next year. The guards will be good, if they all come back. But there are no trustworthy big men. Because of that, the defense will be suspect.

It will be like what Rick would have faced at Clemson, had he hung around there, as several players were headed out until he left. And there are troubling comparisons there, with his last team getting to No. 2, falling off the map to a six seed and going out in the first round. (/musing)

Bobby Knight has players that would go to the grave for him. That doesn’t make his sins any less awful. Players loving a demanding coach doesn’t always equate to needed tough love.

I think there may be a reason Knight has always likes Barnes so much and it has little to do with basketball knowledge.

Perhaps most damning is simply this: Penders could have this team competing for a championship. That is all.

Sailer makes a point i keep coming back to – if these guys all hate Barnes so much, why the extreme loyalty from players in the league? It doesn’t add up. All players get sick of their coaches, especially when the team is losing. The idea that Barnes is some evil mind warper is massively overblown imo.

(I)f these guys all hate Barnes so much, why the extreme loyalty from players in the league?

My guess would be because those guys played the way he wanted when they were at UT and therefore did not get abused to the extent others did.

1) What Bob just said.
2) Barnes is apparently getting worse.
3) From the little I’ve heard, a lot of our exes are attached to the program, the school, the city, and to our current players much more so than they are to Barnes.

The decision is; are we getting our 2 million dollars worth?

All one has to do is know the story of Landon Turner to know why knight’s players are fiercely loyal to him. He graduated 90% of his players and never had infractions with the NCAA. Yet, our culture ridicules him while celebrating the Calipari’s and Huggins’ of the world.

Groundhog, is exactly right, and that’s the real reason the game “passed him by”, he refused to play the game behind the scenes.

Now some of the ridicule Knight has drawn is well deserved. The Puerto Rico incident, the chair incident, Neil Reed choking thing (all though Neil Reed is a douche), etc. But, yes, Calipari, Huggins, and even Calhoun are scum.

Give me a break Groundhog. Knight was an unbelievable coach and celebrated for decades, and still is by many, but when you abuse your players, students, refs, other coaches, administrators, etc…. people eventually don’t want you around. It wasn’t like he was thrown in jail or banished from coaching. If by ridiculing you mean he now pulls down big bucks while being employed by the WWL and ruining about half the televised basketball games I watch….. then waaah. Poor Knight. The great general is being ridiculed.

“Our culture” for the most part knows Calipari and Huggins’ are slim balls. Fault the NCAA for their faux enforcement and allowing their types to continue doing what they are doing.

“My guess would be because those guys played the way he wanted when they were at UT and therefore did not get abused to the extent others did.”

Strange that they’re the most successful at playing basketball as well. Even guys like Buckman, Klotz, and JT have been known to come back and play. Other than Dion Dowell and Mike Williams, I don’t remember that many guys transferring for supposed abuse either. Rick’s a hardass but he’s been relatively successful and his players, for the most part, respect and have affection for him. Seems weird to try and spin it into revisionist history of him being hated by players (That’s not directed at you, Bob). He’s sucked as a coach this year. We all have fears that he may not be able to breakthrough to the elite level, but to intimate he’s been hated for years and overly abusive to players just doesn’t seem to be congruent with the facts at hand….I worry about next year, but Barnes has a history of doing better when pre-season expectations are low. DJ’s team two years ago. Team after TJ left. One of the white stiffs, will have to make a Connor, junior year like jump.

Art,

I agree that most hardcore fans knows Calipari and Huggins are slime balls. However, we don’t, as a community or society. seem to give a rats ass. It’s a side story really. When in doubt, do whatever possible to win and beg for forgiveness later. Calipari has had two Final Four banners taken down at schools he coach at and he’s the coach at one of the most prestigious basketball programs in history (It is the SEC though). The media and most fans suck him off and if he wins a B-ball championship at Kentucky, then he’ll be considered a top five coach, if he isn’t already.

Roostr,

We are definitely not getting are money’s worth in “coaching” this season. Perhaps we should employ the Warren Buffett executive comp plan to coaching. If you don’t produce, money gets deducted from your account. :)

“Blake, I’m talking about recruiting rankings.”

Was referring to Trips’ OP.

Guess I see your point, but FWIW Rick Jackson and Scoop Jardine were both highly recruited players. Besides, if they were more talented and just underrated coming out of high school (I.e. Wes Johnson and Kris Joseph, who are supremely talented players) then why does it matter what Rivals said?

Perhaps most damning is simply this: Penders could have this team competing for a championship. That is all.

No he couldn’t. Penders was at his best taking players who were beaten down by Weltlich (who makes Barnes look like the basketball version of Mack)and letting them be themselves, talented players given room to be creative who were also self-disciplined.

This team under Penders would have been much like his B.J. Tyler, Reggie Freeman, Terence Rencher, Kris Clack teams. Spectacular outburts followed by spectacular nosedives. Undisciplined on and off the court.

SRR,

whoever made that comment has a very short memory. Penders is and was one of the worst basketball coaches I have ever seen.