Combine Sunday Open Thread

Snead goes 5.06 unofficial in 2nd attempt.

Jesus runs a 4.72 unofficial in 2nd attempt.

Zach Robinson ran a 4.69 unofficial in 1st attempt.

White ghost runs 4.57 unofficial for first attempt. That’s not good.

Golden Tate just made some money. 4.36.

How slow are A&M’s db’s?

Other guys:

Dez Briscoe – 4.60
Riley Cooper – 4.53
Gilyard – 4.56
Jacoby Ford – 4.28

Jacoby Ford — Damn! Gilyard lost some money if he can’t improve.

Remember when we lost out on Brandon LaFell and he was supposed to be a 4.4 guy?

4.60
4.59

Unofficial. Lost some money. Needs to catch well.

Kerry Meier runs 4.62 and 4.63 unofficial. Not surprising.

4.60 for Shipley on his second go. Well hey, he’s going as a slot receiver anyway, they don’t have to be THAT fast, do they?

Ship just ran a 4.6 in his 2nd turn. Not good. Although, I wonder how good/bad his 10 an 20 yard splits were. He looked faster earlier than later.

Shipley runs 4.6 unofficially on 2nd. Not very good. He’s a slot WR, so it’s his quickness more then straight line speed but Jordan still has to be disappointed.

Golden Tate with a 4.37 unofficial on 2nd run.

Does 4.7 for Colt really surprise anyone? Hell, Vince ran a 4.6.

That sounds about right for Shipley. But it’s coming off of cuts and route running where he excels — the 40 ain’t the best marker for that. I am surprised to see Riley Cooper run a better time. Does anyone know what Quan’s 40 time was?

I’m extremely surprised that Colt ran a slower time than Zac Robinson and Dan Lefevere (?). I watched all three of those guys quite a bit this year and there is no doubt in my mind that Colt was the fastest by quite a bit.

Golden Tate is a motherfucking football player. Guy is going to be a good NFL player.

Nordberg,

4.77 is horrid, but it’s not that good. Colt’s already has questions about his size and proneness to injury. It was hoped that he could be a little more athletic. Tebow vs. Colt in a 40, would you have guess Tebow was faster? He’s 20 lbs heavier. Again, not terrible but I’d bet even Colt’s disappointed.

That should have started out, “4.77 is not horrid”. Thanks.

For 95 of 100 QB’s speed is completely irrelevant. The 5 for whom it’s relevant are the 3 who are switching positions (Brad Smith etc) and the 2 who are runners out of the QB position.

Jordan: his bread and butter are his moves, especially the double move. 4.6 with a great double move and great hands should get him a roster spot. Probably a 5th round pick.

As a result of the combine Ulatoski will not be drafted and will probably not make a roster.

Golden Tate was one of the few reasons ND didn’t suck even worse than they did the past couple of years. He singlehandedly won a least a couple of games for them because he could not be tackled.

If the 40 were run in an L shape, then Shipley would be among the fastest times. That’s what matters.

Why the fuck do we care how fast the QB prospects run? Peyton Manning and Troy Aikman would lose a foot race against Terrance Cody.

And with a two step head start no less.

Legitimate q from someone who has only been following football religiously for a few years: are all the poking and prodding, measuring, etc…, a relatively new thing, or have they always done this with prospective players?

In other words, were people in the 70’s saying things like “so and so is a tenth slower in the 40 than we thought, he’s going to drop at least 1-2 rounds.”

don’t blame me for colt’s poor run

Shipley looked fast to me when he was playing for Texas.

I am sure there are bright GMs out there that won’t ding Shipley for the 40, but there are plenty who will.

“He’s small-ish and has mediocre speed, are we sure this guy differentiates enough on the cuts and route running to matter?”

I don’t expect McCoy or Shipley to go ahead of the 4th round.

McCoy needs every break he can get. He needed to be bigger and faster than expected. Neither happened. He’s not going to wow with his arm and the “fragile” label is already stamped on the guy. He needs an off the charts Wonderlic for folks to give him anything besides “he’s a winner”. It sucks, but the NFL draft is a meat market in the extreme.

I’m curious what Drew Brees ran in the 40. McCoy’s best bet is to hope for comparisons to Brees.

CJ Spiller just ran a 4.28.

And he’s a better receiver than Chris Johnson by far. Hope this guy gets to a team who knows how to use him as a weapon.

God. There have been three guys who hav run sub-4.3 40s in the last two days. That is sick.

I see colts NFL potential as about the same as chad penningtons

What is Drew Brees’ 40 yard dash time?

4.67

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100125124421AAd2Xwq

Brees is the exception that proves the rule. No one gets drafted on a Drew Brees comparison above whatever the league already thinks of their worth. They get drafted at the level of generally perceived value and then justified with the “Drew Brees upside” thoughts.

Colt is going to have to light up the throwing tree, and I just don’t see that happening. 4th round would be a reach, and most likely going in the 5th. He’s a good kid, and this experience will help him get some money and then head in to the coaching ranks.

I’m a little disappointed in Shipley’s time, but it just reinforces the common idea that he is the standard possession receiver, and he’ll make one club very happy when he ends up catching 7-8 balls per game.

Joe Montana’s 4.7 says hi!

CTJ —

I agree. I was just hoping that in the wake of the Super Bowl some of the Bree-related goodwill would wash over Colt.

If I were an NFL scout my real concern will Colt would be whether he can get through his reads quickly enough. Having watched him for four years I’m not sure the answer militates in his favor.

drew was drafted as the first pick in the 2nd round so he didn’t come out of nowhere. he is also one of the smartest guys in the league and has the prettiest deep ball i’ve seen in a long time. people forget he also ran for over 500 yds as a senior.

the chargers knew what they were doing…they were just too retarded to see it through.

Chargers management is not exactly known for making smart decisions.

i agree. if they keep drew i think they win the SB in ’06.

Jordan with 16 reps on bench press. Not a big deal, but pretty decent for a small guy. Shipley also had pretty good size hands. 9 5/8 is decent. By comparison, Dez Bryant, who’s 3 inches taller and 30 lbs heavier had 9 3/4.

Brandon LaFell lost a lot of money. Before the season, he was considered a top three prospect. He had a disappointing senior season. He ran slow (4.59), didn’t bench, and also has small hands — 8 3/4. He may be the biggest loser at WR…..

Apparently Golden Tate’s official was 4.42. Still made himself some money today.

Earl Thomas measured 5’10", 208 lbs. 11 lbs more than his listed weight here. That’s good news for him if he can run well….

It should be noted that Drew Brees was much better than Colt McCoy in college. He went first pick in the second round only because he wasn’t 6’4.

But Colt CAN play, regardless of that height requirement.

I would argue that Brees was not “much better” than Colt.

Toby Gerhart is faster than Shipley. Go figure.

Gerhart is “special.”

“It should be noted that Drew Brees was much better than Colt McCoy in college.”

Uhm, how? Please explain. Much better player? Much better prospect?

All of our guys end up gaining 10 pounds after they leave for the draft. Makes you wonder if their lighter playing weight was by design, a result of not working out 24/7, or our S&C program.

BTW, no surprise that Shipley threw up so many reps on the bench press. He is jacked.

All of the guys that are at the combine drop out and train everyday at specialized camps. I don’t think it’s anymore than that and the fact that listed heights and weights by college SID’s are often misleading….

Hopefully the scouts watch the tape where 2 DBs on Alabama couldn’t match up with his quickness. This guy is money, just a shame that time cost him a couple large.

Chris Applewhite has problems with adjectives sometimes.

Actually his previous injuries and size cost him a lot more than that time. It would have been great if he could have run a 4.5, but he was always going to be a guy taken much lower than his abilities show. Injury history + size already guaranteed that.

Ghost,

I agree with you. But for those that are saying, who cares what he runs? It’s about measuring up vs. scout’s expectations. It’s not that it’s going to kill his draft stock, it’s that his draft stock is already slumping and being devalued. Coming out as a better than average athlete could have at least stunted his slump until he throws. He’s really going to need an excellent pro day to get to round 2 or 3 at this rate. He’s just not helping himself, that’s all.

He did broad jump 9’6" which is pretty good. Hope he can really show off some arm strength at pro day b/c he’s going to need it.

I’ll go preemptive for CA and say that Brees made better reads, was more accurate, and responsible for more at the line.
For how much CA hates Davis I think he would have to admit that the GD system maximized Colt pretty well.
Somehow Texas killed it through the air without Colt ever having to make a deep pass besides the sideline fade. Can anyone name a time Colt made a difficult downfield throws?

Colt’s official 40 time was 4.79, quite a bit slower than was usually estimated during his college career. It is really surprising (to me, anyway) that Drew Brees is quicker. Colt can throw very accurately when he is really, really in sync with his receivers. I have my doubts about his ability to read defenses, his decision making, and his ability to adjust to a bunch of different receivers. The chances of Colt scoring off the charts on his Wonderlic are pretty small. On the other hand, he has a huge heart and is a fierce competitor.

Did anyone catch the DL bench reps? Sergio (25), Lamarr (30) and Suh (32) outlifting Gerald McCoy (23). With Lamarr’s overall athleticism, making it in the top 15 in bench may really help his stock. Is there really a debate between McCoy and Suh?
Link: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d816a8321/LB-DL-hit-the-bench

Billick and Mooch on NFL network both say Colt is still late 1, early 2 likely as the consensus. Could fall to 3 because he doesn’t fit some systems.
Link: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d816a81de/Colt-McCoy-s-draft-stock

Nickel,

There is nothing quantitatively to support your assertion that Brees was more accurate, better with reads, nor more responsible at the line. Colt’s stats in completion percentage, passing yards, TDs/Ints, Yards per attempt, and basically any other statistic you’d like to spit out are superior. He had 150 more completions despite having about 25 less attempts in his career. He also had about 1500 more yards. So Colt was on average completing at a higher clip, gaining more yards per attempt and completion and making less mistakes (ints) while scoring more points. Joe Tiller’s spread offense was more horizontal than ours, if you can believe that (Brees once threw the ball 83 times in a game). Accuracy measures simply don’t support Brees either. Brees best season’s completion percentage (63.4%) was worse then Colt’s worst season’s completion percentage (65.1%).

Brees came out in one of the worst drafts in recent history and in maybe the worst draft for QBs, perception wise, in 2 decades. Besides Michael Vick, who went #1 overall, there were no other competent QBs. Quincy Carter was the 3rd QB drafted for god’s sake. Marques Tuiasoppo was the 4th QB taken. That’s what helped him. He would be considered probably the 4th-7th QB coming off the board this year behind Bradford, Claussen, Tony Pike, Colt, and perhaps a few others. Now in retrospect, it’s easy for all of us to see what a great QB Brees was coming out, but he was far from a sure thing in his draft. Is it debatable that Brees was a better NFL prospect than Colt? Sure, but it had nothing to do with pushing the ball downfield or being more accurate. The argument for Brees would be leadership of a team that may not have had top flight talent to the Rose Bowl. Was able to do the same things with less talent around him…..

well quan ran about a 4.5, but i would swear shipley is faster. and quan is my favorite longhorn ever and has been producing for the bengals

Name something you want from your QB and Drew Brees did it better. This doesn’t mean Colt McCoy isn’t good.

McCoy isn’t NFL accurate (yet) past 15 yards. Brees is a machine.

Brees had an NFL skill level for reading defenses and decision making at Purdue. Colt still doesn’t have this ability, although I do give him leniency here based on his teacher.

The most underrated thing about Brees, though, is this: how well does he scramble? I’ll tell you how well. I have no idea. Nobody does, because he never needs to. Outside of maybe Payton Manning (and it’s debatable) nobody in the last 20 years of quarterbacking has ever demonstrated such a complete mastery of the mental side of the position. Nobody knew his system better and how to utilize it better than him.

Again granting leniency for outside circumstances, I’m not sure McCoy always understands what he sees. He scrambles a lot . . . in fact I’d be he bails more than Vince Young did. He doesn’t have that timing that you need in the league — the step step step step step hitch throw that means you throw when you’re supposed to. Part of that is that I’m not sure it’s taught here. Nobody had that skill Since Shea Morenz. The other part is that I don’t think his brain moves fast enough. He gets a lot of credit for being a smart QB, but I think most of that manifests on pre-snap reads and his touch on throws.

One of the interesting things that was never explored in depth was Greg Davis’ explination for his latest failure of the running game. He said that we had trouble getting into the right calls (he said this after the CU game, I think). That’s either Chris Hall or Colt missing those reads. It could be nothing. Anyway this is getting long and might deserve it’s own topic.

“Name something you want from your QB and Drew Brees did it better.”

How about completing passes? Scoring TDs? Winning? Brees did none of these and other things better than Colt in college.

“Brees had an NFL skill level for reading defenses and decision making at Purdue.”

Really? Playing in the shotgun and running a more horizontal version of the spread vs. Big Ten defenses that rarely saw it is better training? If he was NFL ready then why didn’t he start his first year? Why did it take him 3 years to get a QB rating over 76.9%? Or have more INTs than TDs his first 3 years? Or have a losing record leading SD to draft Rivers?

“The most underrated thing about Brees, though, is this: how well does he scramble? I’ll tell you how well. I have no idea.”

Perhaps you missed him running or scrambling in college. Despite having few running plays called for him, he accrued 900 yards rushing in his career. He scrambled quite a bit in college.

“Brees is a machine”

You mean like a cyborg? A terminator? Your simply comparing a finished product in the current version of Brees to a young prospect in McCoy. Brees is great, now. I love the guy, but your comparison of their college careers and as pro prospects beyond empty platitudes is found wanting…. Neither is big, neither has a big arm, neither came from a pro style offense. Both spent most of their career in the spread and in the shotgun. Both were above average athletes for the position as pro prospects. Both used a lot of short passing to control the pace of the game, and both were outstanding college QBs…..Oh yeah, they both were from Texas. Glad, we’re bringing out Shea Morenz examples of what Colt doesn’t have, BTW.

This will only scratch the surface in why your post was terrible, but let’s do this anyway.

Take a penny, balled up paper, or Skittle. Just whatever small thing you have handy. Next, get a trash can and put it about 2 feet from you. See how many times, out of ten, you can get your weapon of choice into the bin.

Now get three more trash cans, all slightly smaller than the original can. Place two of them ten feet away. Block one of them with a chair or something. Place the fourth one 20 feet away. Half a second before you throw have a friend yell out a number, 1-4, and then punch you in the stomach. See how many, out of ten, you can get into the corresponding trash can.

Compare both numbers and write an essay about why you think those numbers were so different (hint: degree of difficulty!). Conclude with one good reason why claiming Colt McCoy is in the same stratosphere as Drew Brees as a player or prospect should not result in your banishment to the ocean.

As for the rest:

- you expertly missing the point I was making with Morenz
- you are dead wrong that our offense is a “more vertical version” of anything
- Colt McCoy did not control the pace of the game, at least not last year
- Brees went from under center way more than we do
- compare Purdue’s win % before and after Brees to Texas’ before Colt started playing and talk to me about who wins games
- Being a good NFL QB takes 2-3 years for everyone
- Brees’ offense was more complicated and he had more control at the LOS to change it around. Colt barely did any of that

This makes me sound like I hate Colt, and I don’t. I think he’s a good college QB that got bad coaching and it shows. I think Drew Brees was the best passer out of college in my lifetime, or at least the span of my conscious memory. If he had Ryan Leaf’s body he’d be in Atlanta winning Super Bowls there.

I remember Shea Morenz throwing some beautiful out-routes to TCU cornerbacks.

Hey guys,

I haven’t seen it mentioned above, but it should be noted that Shipley has a minor groin injury. Word is he almost pulled out of the 40 beforehand but in the end decided to run anyway. My guess is he didn’t want to raise the injury-prone concerns given his history of knee explosions.

When I heard that it explained a lot, because there’s no way he doesn’t run faster than a 4.6. I’ll be very curious to see what he runs at UT’s pro day.

there’s full pad game speed and track speed, 2 very different things. ask Emmitt Smith or Jerry Rice both 4.6 guys. Shipley plays fast and the pros know it. I see mccoy as a Jason Garrett career back up who could play well in spots. He does not have an NFL frame. VY was much better than Brees in college and mccoy was just as good. How good was tom brady in college??? It’s a totally different game.

Chris,

How big was that trash can supposed to be, again? Ha, ha, ha….I hope you stick around. You’re at least entertaining.

I don’t think I made a point about Shea Morenz, you tried and came up short.

Brees being able to win a Big 10 title at Purdue is a great point. That is a good argument for him, even it was a down year in the conference (8-4) although I already mentioned this. Brees was able to win, comparatively, at Purdue and he was an outstanding leader. Purdue was 24-13 with him, although they were 9-3 the year before he started which was better than any year Brees started.

He’s also a better athlete then Colt is at the same time. I believe Colt’s workouts will bear this out. Brees was a junior national tennis champion to give you an idea of his athletic prowess. Brees’ qualities always were more qualitative then physical other than accuracy. Still, you gave no relevant facts or examples to support your points other than a prosaic, “Brees was really good, trust me.” mantra.

Is Brees a better pro prospect at the same time in his career as McCoy? I think there is a really great argument to support this. Unfortunately, you missed on most of the salient points. And yes, McCoy is in the same stratosphere as a prospect. Whether or not he enjoys the same success on the NFL level will rest entirely on Colt.

I think we can all agree that Brees is crazy good, one of the the top 5 ever if he keeps it up.

I think we can all also agree that we have no idea how good colt McCoy will be. Colt made his living at UT off of short throws. Brees can throw it anywhere on the field. Unless colt can throw the long ball, he will not succeed in the NFL. If he can, though, he might just tear it up. I have a feeling that he just doesn’t have the capability of reading defenses well enough to have much success. I would love for him to prove me wrong.

wow tebo’s numbers in vertical, cone, broad jump and shuttle are better than a lot of wr/rbs.
He is a physical freak, but its a better story if he wins because of his heart.

Didn’t know what thread to put this on…. but Gerald McCoy just said that Charlie Tanner is the best O-lineman that he played against during his college career.

Didn’t know what thread to put this on…. but Gerald McCoy just said that Charlie Tanner is the best O-lineman that he played against during his college career.

The only “bad” game Tanner had was against Wyoming and that was only for 3 highly visible plays in a row. But of course the fucking armchair experts would have you believe that after Hall he was the worst OL in UT history. If you repeat something wrong enough times it becomes fact in some lazy minds.

The definition of bad is screwing up against Wyoming’s defensive line three straight plays.

This is hilarious. All the experts are saying Colt is a late 1st rounder or 2nd rounder (worst case scenario) but every barker here is saying he’s 4th-5th rounder!!!!! I’ll be intrigued to find out who is right — TV experts or Message Board loudmouths.

Who is saying McCoy is a late first rounder?

http://media.247sports.com/Uploads/Boards/686/686/4134.jpg