The Basketball Crossroads

I am not sure what I consider myself in regard to Texas basketball. I’ve followed it since I was little, but never at anything resembling a fever pitch. I watch this team with the same type of enjoyment/displeasure I watched Penders teams as a kid.

Are people really burning Barnes in effigy right now? I don’t click on a ton of the basketball/Barnes threads here or elsewhere. I never visit the Shaggy basketball board, for instance. I do think that Barnes has been ridiculously rigid with this team, he’s overly sentimental with his upper classmen, and I expect Texas to lose on the first weekend.

At the same time, I expect him to come back with a strong team next year and to compete for 2nd to 5th place in the conference and a mid-seed in the tourney. Maybe we’ll have another Final Four run under him, as he can certainly recruit, but if we don’t, I just don’t have problems with the program or his overall work, either. We’re represented well. It would blow my mind if anyone other than the crazies were calling for his head.

Close To Jumping -
 
I haven’t really taken a straw poll so I don’t know the depth of negative sentiment.
 
I’ve noticed intense negativity about the program in every forum I’ve looked (including our own). The national commentators have also taken notice and he has been criticized pretty heavily on television and the in the press.
 
Not without reason, for the reasons I cover above. I just wonder the degree to which folks understand that this is not as massive an outlier event as the #1 to unranked statistic suggests.

1) Great stuff, Scipio. Obviously, I agree.

2) CTJ, I think there are three types of UT hoops fans. Junkies like those of us who write about it passionately, football-first fans like yourself who are pleased with the program but not hyper-invested in it, and then finally, football fans who care just enough about basketball to get REALLY ANGRY when the team doesn’t go 31-2. It’s always seemed to me — like Scipio said — a complete lack of basketball perspective.

I can confirm that on campus the attitude has gone from extremely excited to extremely disappointed in little more than a month.

My “lifetime Longhorn” buddies (Sorry Mr. Babers) all were convinced that the Elite 8 was the floor, and they now talk as if Barnes won’t even be able to win the Horns a tournament game.

I fall somewhere in the middle. I have never been as impressed with Dexter Pittman as the peanut gallery. He shows you much against Texas A&M – Kingsville and little against Kansas, and that’s been consistent for 4 years. The only bellcow on the team that is mature enough to carry the load is Damion James, yet he sometimes seems content with disappearing for stretches.

I see no reason why Texas can’t still make the Sweet 16, and depending on how the matchups fall they may end up there in my bracket… but Trader Rick did a very poor job of managing expectations this year, and there’s no way around it.

Good post, Scipio. Don’t minimize the hotness that comes out of Augusta, Maine. Your point about not appreciating a clean program until it’s gone is insightful. Barnes is easy to root for, IMO, for all the reasons you stated. But make no mistake the internet brigade is ready to burn down his house. It’s been a disappointing year, no doubt, but the pluses with Barnes still outweigh the minuses by a great measure. Nice piece of reflection.

PB defines the classifications of fans well. Every poster should have to put themselves in one and wear it around their handle so we can understand their perspective and expectations.

Please don’t hurt the Ocelots…..

PB -
 
Thanks for that link. It’s actually the story I’d intended to link to and I strongly encourage BC folks to read it, if you haven’t already.
 
You’re completely right – it’s the semi-attached that tend to howl loudest. They also misunderstand the nature of basketball itself. It’s closer to baseball than football when it comes to the outcome of any one game and matchups are pretty much everything.
 
If we play a tremendously athletic team that can shoot 3s, trap and press, we’ll exit in the first round. If we play conventional basketball teams that “do what they do” and don’t scout us in any meaningful way, we could absolutely make a little run.
 
 
ursa -
 
Thanks for sharing the campus sentiment. I feel a little like you do about Pittman. I really like him, I root for him, what he could be is plainly evident to anyone with half a basketball brain, but the chasm between what a player could be and what a player is is pretty vast. And Big Men are consistently the greatest examples of this principle.

Don’t want to derail this with Pittman sentiment but I think, because he’s a big man, he is by definition wholly reliant on what others do for him to enable to do things for himself.

It’s not like Dex can grab a rebound and lead a break. When the kid is posting up, has his man squarely behind him, Dogus’ man sagging on him, Justin’s man sagging on him and the defender on the opposite low block halfway across the lane, it ain’t on him.

It’s on RIck.

Ask Cole Aldrich how well he thought Dex guarded him this year.

Anyway, great read, Scip. I have found myself this year really ‘mad’ at Rick. Maybe some of that’s on me.

Our New Money basketball fans wouldn’t be nearly as pissed at Barnes as they are if Colt McCoy hadn’t suffered a pinched nerve.

Sailer -
 
You make really good points about Pittman on offense. I’m noticing the lane collapse around him even when we have our supposed shooters in the game.
 
However, it’s not on Rick when Dexy picks up two quick fouls in the first five minutes of the game because he fancies himself to be Hakeem Olujawon. Or when Pittman grabs two boards in 25 minutes. He’s taking himself out of games willfully.

Scorpio -

Actually, I’m with Hank Dudek on this in that it is potentially on Rick. You teach him through film study to quit trying to shift earth plates by leaping at non-attainable blocks.

I also think he’s a victim sometimes of utter horseshit calls, which then render him skittish about how aggressive he can be.

Not saying he can’t just nut up and do more but the points are still valid, I think.

srr50 -
 
You sneak in like a ninja and steal the thread. You’re dead on.

I don’t see us making any noise in the tournament. If we are to make it the second weekend, it will be because we drew favorable match-ups and the teams we played weren’t on. Even when we play reasonably well, we’re still not very good – like our last game. Our flaws are too deep and fundamental to be fixed by the next couple of weeks.

I think we have a shot of being better next year since the guys we will be depending on will be much more well rounded players next year – like Hamilton, Brown, and AB. Losing Damo is going to suck, but losing Pittman looks like it’s going to be meaningless.

I think we go out in the second round this year and probably make it to the Sweet 16 next year.

“From a geopolitical perspective, this is the stuff of revolutions: heightened expectation, material progress, a growth of belief in the predictable acceleration of the aforementioned, hope doused in gasoline, then a perceptual and real setback, finally, growing murderous resentment when expectations aren’t met.”

The GOP will try to squeeze this onto a bumper sticker for 2012. Or translated to Palinspeak: “you betcha”.

Great stuff.

/ had to Google “civet”.

Good post. Barnes’ struggles this year remind me of other coaches that did great things when they didn’t have stellar talent across the board, but struggled when they had a roster full of superstars. Billy Martin comes to mind in some respects (although it’s not a one-for-one analogy). I hope Barnes can figure out how to sort it all out – he’s a good man by all accounts.

I fully agree about Trips – I don’t know jack shit about basketball, but I feel like I learn something everytime I read his stuff.

Scip: Great post on perspective.

I am loathe to play the “we’ve never had it so good” card, but because college basketball has more teams at the D-1 level where it takes fewer players to be competitive, it is more volatile than football.

Jim Boeheim has Syracuse #1 in the polls, and I was stunned to find out it is the first time in 20 years they have been ranked at the top of the polls. He has a National Championship this decade — and three appearances in the NIT.

Billy Donovan at Florida has back-to-back National Championships, and back-to-back NIT bids.

Everything you wrote is truth — from Barnes’ rigidity and lack of imagination on offense, to his success in recruiting good kids who are also damn good basketball players. I don’t give him a muilligan for this year, but he sure as hell doesn’t deserve the “Pitchfork & Torch” group after him either.

(BTW – google Jim Boehiem and the first thing that pops up is Jim Beoheim-Wife.)

Dude is an 8 or 9 seed who took down a #1 seed.

“Actually, I’m with Hank Dudek on this in that it is potentially on Rick. You teach him through film study to quit trying to shift earth plates by leaping at non-attainable blocks.”

Sailor,

You’re operating under the assumption that the staff hasn’t/isn’t doing this. Dexter’s had foul troubles his entire career here. We never depended on him for a ton of minutes before this year because he couldn’t run for 2 minutes without needing a blow so it wasn’t as much of an issue. I understand your point, but at what point do we not ask the kid (as a senior) to understand his situation and play a little smarter? FWIW, Dex is actually averaging less fouls per minute this year than last and he stills fouls too much.

Sayler -

I’m with you. Barnes (and Wright obviously) created the Frankenstein that is Dex. I don’t think they did exactly the best job of managing the development of his confidence as a player. Sure, it doesn’t help when Dad and others are in his ear telling him he is all-fucking world and he studies himself in the mirror more than fixing his issues.

We hear a lot about the Barnes way, which is common among like-minded/styled hard nosed coaches – rip their confidence away from them and then build them back up.

I strongly believe that Dex never had to deal with this to the extent other players did because he came in a fat fuck project.and never had to deal with high expectations – all the more why Barnes was extensively key to his development as a player. I don’t think Barnes ever completely turned the page with Dex. It was more of a – if we can keep the fried chicken and ice cream away from him, he might give us a “something” and really that’s good enough. Either way, no one dug deeply enough on correcting his obvious deficiencies – he became a victim of the bar being too low and no one really focusing on moving the bar up very much. The endurance thing was always an out, too.

That’s on Barnes, not on Dex.

I’ll admit that my wife knows more about basketball than me, but she did play shooting guard for a team that was ranked #1 in the state of Florida for a good portion of her senior year in high school. That said, I’d label myself an above average Texas basketball fan.

I have always been pissed by the fact that we can get 30,000 people to show up to a scrimmage football game but can’t fill the drum more than twice a year. Hell, we don’t average much less in baseball than basketball. I think that is what hurts the most about this season. I thought this was the season that the basketball team would become relevant. I’ve always maintained that a NC would change the mindset, and this was the year.

But, since we are dealing perspective in this post, I will offer this. Those that pay attention know that I’m a UF grad student and I pay attention to what’s going on with the Gators. As was mentioned, the Gators followed up back to back NCs by falling off the map of college basketball. I’ve never been a fan of Donovan’s and think that he was blessed by a can’t miss team with outstanding chemistry. The funny thing is that since that time, the fans there have grown apathetic. The home game against hated and ranked Tennessee didn’t sell out the 11,000 seat stadium, and that is with a team that is likely going to the tournament. UF is like Texas in many ways, and the fact that basketball is filler until football is primary among them.

I’m pissed because I want to be the best in everything and we’re not, even though I thought we might be. srr50 has a valid point. The fact is, the bloom is off the rose with Barnes after this season. We know what he can do, now we know what he can’t. I’m not saying fire the guy, but he fell down a notch from being my favorite coach on campus (mancrushing on Muschamp now).

Also…
Penders – Threw his jacket to the middle of the court at least 5 times a season.
Barnes – hasn’t ever thrown his jacket to the middle of the court that I recall.

So there’s that.

sizzle,
 
There’s a lot of insight in what you wrote, but you seem to be arguing that Rick should have dug in on him earlier, challenged him, worked on him mentally, when we know that Dex had a problem with low self-esteem.
 
From a psychological standpoint, I think Barnes turned the heat from simmer to boil on Dex correctly. It’s also clear to me, particularly after thinking about some of the points raised here, that we didn’t support that psychological growth on the court. With good sets, shooters around him, good passes to the post.

Looking forward, do we have ANY baller frontcourt guys coming in? Say what you will about Pittman and James, but sweet jesus who we got next? Chapman (whom I like best, but that’s not saying much, HIll, and Wingmini? Ugh

I forgot to add that this is the first time I can remember being so thouroughly disappointed in a Texas bball team, is that progress? I think so, Barnes is my guy. I just like him, he is straight up and down. I respect that he isnt being a little bitch about the way the season has transpired.

Jiggle,

We have Tristan Thompson coming in next year. He’s a 6’9" PF that’s a top 10 recruit. He’s a back to the basket kind of guy that can run the court and rebound well. He’s a bit raw offensively in the footage and time I’ve watched him but he’s blessed with great athleticism and a long wing span. Many of us are very nervous about the lack of an interior defensive treat besides young Tristan. Besides Gary, who’s going to rebound? I hope JH comes back because he would seem to be able to grab 7-8 rebounds a game at the 3……

Barnes did an equally piss poor job last year, which is why I have less patience this year. He learned absolutely nothing from the mindfucking he gave the team last year. He also failed to learn, apparently, how to use anybody on the roster effectively.

He got a pass for last season, for thinking Justin Mason could carry an offense, and for giving AJ Abrams a green light to wreck two thirds of the games. We got ten good years, he gets one mediocre one.

But we see all the same problems this year. The only difference is that there is actual talent going to waste. He designs an offense for guys like Hamilton, Brown, and Bradley and then starts Balbay and Mason/Ward.

Anyway, before I get rant-y, I just wanted to point out that this season is not an aberration. We saw the exact same thing last year. If we see it again next year I think it’s time to really hit the panic button on Rick.

Jiggle, we get another year out of Gary Johnson. And we have Tristan Thompson coming in.

Basically, all we need to do is genetically combine the good parts of Clint Chapman and Lexi Wangmene and we’re golden. I’m assuming that’s what the white dudes at the end of the bench are working on.

Scip -

My perspective is not just as an observer, but a fat fuck observer, so it’s very personal for me. Looking back on my participation in sports as an ore-teen and an adolescent, I would have benefited much more from being pushed harder. I was always the tallest and biggest kid. Sports, expecially baseball, came very easy to me – I could throw and hit like a motherfucker, but I ran like a corpse. People tend to give up on you quicker when you’re a planetoid – whether it’s in the interest of not destroying self-esteem, or quite candidly, if it’s because “who really gives a shit about the fat kid – I mean, look at that tubby fuck”. This is real shit.

As a 40 something adult now, I am 100% confident I could have taken it and it would have made me even stronger – mentally, emotionally, all that. Wrt the shit that life throws at us in our culture – too often we feel we’re special as we try to endure and focus too much on the pain. But we’re not that special – other people go through the same shit or worse, fat, ugly, stupid, poor, ipowers, whatever.. Dex had family issues and was overfed as a kid. That’s not exactly unheard of in our culture.

I’ve had to overcome a lot of shit in my life, but that shit was not so extraordinary (like getting diddled by HenryJames’ brother) that I should feel special.

I was blessed with intelligence and a cock like a Burmese python (OK, intelligence), but I still have to overcome the desire to give up on shit too early or to make excuses. I think this would not be as much of an issue for me if I had been pushed harder as a kid through sports.

Sizzle will be receiving his first Academy award Sunday for his staring role in “Precious”.

She’s got a good 70 lbs on me. But, Vasherized would hit it.

Scipio,
Out.. fucking.. standing piece on Texas basketball. The insight is spot on and totally engrossing for this die hard Texas basketball fan.
Barnes gets a freebie based on his standard of performance for the last 11 years. Barnes has been a damn good coach and still is, although the tragic flaws are noticable to even the football fan that casually drops into the Drum .

Human Nature is fragile to say the least and you are correct concerning the fans perspective and expectations but we are fans that rise and fall like a tide fading into the night. Where would the team be without fans ? Loyal or almost loyal to the basketball/Barnes teams. Its a simple game that fans get carried away with and have different points of view. That perspective is healthy and good. I am with you about the negativity sluts but in a larger issue is that they motivate people to write tantalizing and emotional articles like yours.

Robert Johnson music is on another reality.

Spot on, Trips rules this realm. Strippers not too much.

“We hear a lot about the Barnes way, which is common among like-minded/styled hard nosed coaches – rip their confidence away from them and then build them back up.”
There is a saying in Psychology goes something like this.
Every time you break someone down give them twice what it took to break them down.

Nice piece, Scip.

I was watching Texas basketball in Gregory Gym when Leon Black was the coach and Larry Robinson out of Hobbs, NM was what passed for a high profile recruit in those days.

We’ve come a long way since then, and Rick Barnes deserves much credit for making us nationally relevant in hoops. With that said, I’m growing really weary of Barnes’ schtick. Great guy, great recruiter, but the truth is, he often appears clueless on the sideline and has underachieved with the talent he attracts. Unfortunately, this seems to be a common theme with UT athletics. I’m afraid it’s engrained in our culture on the Forty Acres. I get tired of watching us wilt under the bright lights of the big stage, but the problem seems to be bigger than any one coach or sport.

Btw, as a blues guitar lover, I appreciate the shout out to Robert Johnson, who made Eric Clapton a shitload of money.

Robert Johnson is boring.

Blueshorn strikes a nerve. For a University that has the best facilities, best town, best women, best everything of anywhere in the country—-BAR NONE—the results on the field in all our sports just don’t reflect it. [one football NC in the last 40 years: really?] It’s an enigma.

He has certainly underachieved this year but I still like Barnes.

I don’t think we’ll get killed too much on the boards next year. Shawn Williams was a pretty good rebounder before he went out. We’ll have Johnson, Thompson, Hamilton, Williams, etc. I think bringing back Hamilton, Bradley, and Brown, and letting them grow together as players will be very beneficial.

Thompson rebounds out of his area, he out quicks rebounders. He does not have the bulk to rebound inside, more of a 3-4 type, decent handle, uses both hands well shooting and shot blocking. Drives to the rim, finishes well. Reminds me of a young Sam Perkins on the court.

Also we are going to sign a short combo guard from the university of OZ, best described as having a tin ear and no soul. Loves music. He should be a 2* when he gets here. Have you heard about him, his name is Mort Volde and he is about 5’ 6" or so a smaller Jai.

(football fan first, casual observer of basketball 2nd)

I’m dissapointed in this team, but I appreciate Barnes and what he has turned us into. No pitch fork and torch in my hands (well, actually, yes but not for Barnes).

NY Horn – I wouldn’t say that even when we play our best game we aren’t that good. This team has beaten some good teams. Before the collapse, this team beat Pitt and MSU. We’ve also twice beaten the only team to beat KU and KSU. Somewhere underneath the bad help defense, poor FT shooting, Greg-Davis like offensive ‘plan is that team that went 17-0. That’s what keeps me watching during a beat down by the Aggies and keeps some small amount of hope alive for the tournament. That hope is on life support right now, but it is there..

Thoughtful piece, Scipio, as usual. I found this site about a year ago, and this is the first time I’ve felt like posting. My reason for commenting is to provide a different perspective on PB’s “three types of Longhorn hoops fans” which everyone seemed eager to affirm or at least willing to concede was acceptably accurate.

I probably fall into the first category of junky, but I am definitely still football first. I really feel like most of my friends are this way. In fact, of all my close friends, the only ones not like this are those for whom none of the teams/sports really matter (guys that enjoy that we’re good, kinda keep up with things, but went to the football games in large part because everyone else did). In school, we went to every football home game, nearly every basketball home game, and plenty of baseball games in the spring. Looking back, it seems like a lot of hours to devote to something that is just entertainment. But this group of friends and I still write each other emails almost every day about Longhorn sports, and I’m commenting on a Longhorn blog at 1 in the morning, so not much has changed.

Maybe what I described is actually the same thing as the first category – it’s hard to say since not a lot of words were devoted to the subject – but that’s only part of what I’m after. More important is that I don’t think the views towards Barnes are so easily delineated between the 3 groups (or however many groups). There are plenty of football first, basketball ignorant fans who are perfectly happy with the general state of the hoops program and our current 23-7 record. Likewise, I’m sure there are scores of Longhorn fans that really didn’t care about the basketball team before the Barnes-era success but now feel truly invested in the team and yearn for the bonafide elite status that our football and baseball teams presently enjoy.

So what? So by attempting to divide and label the fan types and then assigning them a point of view, progressive discussion of the real issue, the Texas basketball team, is at risk of being choked. Let’s not do this. In reading the posts and responses on this site, it’s hard not to see the herd mentality of sports fans at work. Certain posters get respect, and there is very little disagreement with what those posters write. All of a sudden, opinions are fact because enough people have said so. This is not a criticism of this site or its contributors, I’m trying to make an observation about a human condition.

I think Stanley Kubrick said something like, “If you talk long enough about one thing, people will believe you an expert.” Well, Scipio just turned in a long and sober appraisal of the basketball team, and from what I can tell, it has already been stamped the official line of thinking for informed Texas basketball fans. And since we’ve confirmed the 3 fan-types as inclusive and complete, any dissent can be easily attributed to less valid perspectives. Again, I urge us not to fall into this trap. Do I agree with the content of the orignal post? For the most part, absolutely. But, and now is when I hope to start bringing things together, this shouldn’t be the last stanza of the tune.

I’ve been fortunate to get to learn that the healthiest and most fruitful conversations have more than one side through my frequent emails with a group of friends that shares an interest in Longhorn sports. These friends have influenced and even distinctly changed my opinions countless times. Our Rick Barnes discussion is a great example of this. I have always taken a role of Barnes defender until about the past 6 weeks or so, and interestingly to me, I am now no less convicted in my stance of intense criticism than I was in months and years previous when pointing out many of the positive things Scipio wrote about above.

On that note, as this is the heart of the conversation as I see it, I pose this to everyone: How much success do you want for our basketball program, and if your answer is anything like, “more than what we have now” or “to be elite,” what has Barnes done to make you think he is capable of delivering these results? If you question the trajectory of our program or the strength of its leadership, what’s wrong with entertaining the possibility of a change in leadership? Obviously, there are discourse-killing replies like, “Dodds likes him. He’s not going anywhere. Why talk about it?” but that’s not the point. The point is to elevate the back and forth we have about sports, not allow ourselves to fall into useless thought patterns, and have fun with open minds. I think everyone here gets that, or else they wouldn’t waste their time typing so much.

Speaking of typing so much, I’m sorry that the length of this post got out of hand. As it may be the only thing I ever post here, I should mention that I really enjoy the site. It is almost unbelievable that there is such quality work being done in this manner on one of my favorite topics. That the individual personalities of various posters reveal themselves after reading only a few of their comments is just an additional treat – some of you guys are serious trips. Ransom, why do you hate yourself so much? Anyways, thanks to everyone who participates.

Barnes is not at a crossroad, he is not in any danger at all of losing his job. I doubt there are any big turning points for him in the next few years. Deloss is certainly not concerned at all with Barnes’ performance. Barnes runs a clean program, is putting lots of kids on the all big 12 academic team, doesn’t have any kids getting in legal trouble and is more than adequately successful on the court (some coaches would sell their souls to the devil to be as successful as Barnes).

For those of us who are b ball aficionados, who have played and coached organized basketball, it can be painful to watch a Barnes coached team. It might be time to rein in our expectations. Barnes and the UT b ball program are on a high plateau but may never climb the mountain to a national championship. To me, it isn’t so much about national championships but is more about playing basketball the right way (as Larry Brown might say).

what kafka said.

i would only add that the pain of watching RB’s teams is from an Xs & Os standpoint. i mean, i am old enough to remember that 86 NIT Kaiser Bob team, which, incidentally, was the inception of my fervor for burnt orange hoops. BMW put the nail in the coffin, perm or not. I liked Penders… A LOT.

and i like Rick best of all, of course. proud of his accomplishments. but the comparisons to the ‘complexity’ of Greg Davis and his offense are not an accident.

Bobby —

Did you read the link I included at the end of the rough categorization of Texas basketball fans? Not that I think everyone should, but if you’re going to drop a thousand words on the topic and bust out Kubrick in the process, you’d might as well.

If you do, I’m not sure there’s any reason to stomp your foot and wave that kind of warning flag.

If we were to be precise about it, there aren’t just three types of UT basketball fans, each of which shares the same view. The point is that there are a lot of folks who fall into the semi-attached to basketball camp, and among them, the Barnes criticisms lack any semblance of perspective to be meaningful. I see no danger in a consensus forming around bemoaning that.

Among everyone else, the floor’s open to discuss Barnes’ strengths, weaknesses, and perceived ceiling.

PB. Dude. Why is it that BON has that hideous black on dark brown format? I don’t think it is just my computer, but I don’t know. I’ve tried to read stuff there before and generally like you guys stuff, but I find myself blinking the text for two hours after reading it.

Would like to read more of you guys stuff, but would like to keep my corneas from burning out more.

I think Rick is doing a great job.

PB, I read it. I think it is pretty much spot on, and I too loathe much of the anti-Barnes sentiment for its haste and ignorace (though it can be said the same characteristics apply for much of the pro-Barnes sentiment, as well). I didn’t mean to condemn your thoughts. I thank you for your contributions here and at BON, I like reading them.

I got carried away once I began writing my post, paraphrasing Kubrick especially, but my point wasn’t that your 3 types of Longhorn fans are wrong – fully exploring the different types of Longhorn fans seems like something that’s probably not worth anybody’s time. My point was that if we want to keep theses conversations lively and interesting and conducive to fresh ideas, categorizing the sources of the ideas, while convenient and not without its basis in truth, can be dangerous. I took the long route to get there. It’s also very possible that I am reacting to my own misperception of the beginning of a shift and watering down of content here that hasn’t happened simply because I would hate to see it happen. There are so many good posters, and such a variety of information and presentation, this warning and plea of mine are probably uninvited and unwarranted.

Bobby Time stated far more eloquently and completely what my thoughts are with Barnes and Texas basketball than I’m capable of writing. Well done.

My opinion of Barnes and his coaching acumen hasn’t changed for several years now. I’ve felt for some time now that he is held, probably correctly, to a lower standard than several of our other coaches. Historically and culturally we’re still in the toddler stage of basketball in Austin. Maybe we’re tweeners now just before our teen years.

Anyway, I’ll be pleasantly shocked if Barnes is able to have that moment of clarity, that lightning bolt of change, that Mack Brown apparently had after the 2007 A&M game. Texas football under Mack has been 2nd to none since that attitude adjustment invoked by that pathetic experience in College Station. Tough duty for guys in the 5th or 6th decades of their lives.

I simply don’t think any of us need to fear the future of Texas basketball if/when Barnes moves on and we look for new leadership at the top. Barnes has us in a position to attract the very brightest and best amongst the young basketball “Muschamps” of the college coaching fraternity. It’s my opinion that it will take a change at the top to get us to that proverbial “next level.”

Great post, Scip. Top of the line comments and observations by many here. I’m always far more comfortbable when I’m aligned with Scipio and srr on any topic, so wherever I deviate from their thoughts on this topic, I’m probably wrong.

Bobby
Just write whats on your mind and fuck the PC of your post. Question the powers to be and get on the bus,wait lets make that a fast train. We all are not the same, in most areas we are all different with a common thread of Texas sports.

 I only follow Basketball and semi notice all the other sports. Now I will be burned at the stake since I do not follow footbal but fuck it with the millions that do at UT I will not be missed.

No Basketball is another thing. Its a simple game and not a life or death struggle. You do not have to write like a lawyer to be understood some sites require you to be conservative or a free thinker maybe funny but I for one hope you continue to post . A poster is a terrible thing to waste even when they are sluts.
Just do not speak anything bad about strippers as you will have your house burned by Patron addicts.
Kev is fighting to replace Trips. The king is not naked.

I pose this to everyone: How much success do you want for our basketball program, and if your answer is anything like, "more than what we have now" or "to be elite," what has Barnes done to make you think he is capable of delivering these results?

To answer this question, we must know what you think “elite” means. Only a handful of schools have done better than Texas the last 10 years.

I think we can all agree that Skymonkey is a communist…get a rope!

Robert Johnson is boring.

Clapton included a DVD with his “Sessions for Robert J” album. One of the sets was filmed in the building on Park Avenue in Dallas where Johnson played approximately half of his recorded output in the ’30s. (The other half was recorded in a room at the Gunter Hotel in San Antonio.)

Clapton and Doyle Bramhall, II attempted to duplicate on two guitars the sounds Johnson produced with one. There were no multi-track recordings with overdubs in the ‘30s.. Just one guitar and a mike. They talk between cuts about how difficult it was and how they couldn’t figure out how in the hell he produced some of the notes he played.

Rolling Stone ranked him the 5th greatest guitarist of all time. Boring to some is genius to others. His music influenced many of the greatest guitar players of our time.

Brian: YES! YOU ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS!!!
Some dude: …i’m not.

I hate basketball more than HenryJames loves fireman calendars. I think Rick Barnes is awesome because he took some recruits bowling one time. I would like my own category in the aforementioned stance delineation because noone has really captured my essence.

I do think Serpico has a good point. Please look at the unofficial Mack Brown approval rating over the last 12 years that I have created in my mind. See how it undulates? That low bit is where we planned to have him and/or Brett Robin abducted by Shining Path Maoist rebels. Ha Ha Ha Ha. Just kidding. We barely even called Peru. Now draw a line through the median and notive how much better it looks. Now sprinkle some glitter and stars on it. See how wrong we were?

“Penders – Threw his jacket to the middle of the court at least 5 times a season.
Barnes – hasn’t ever thrown his jacket to the middle of the court that I recall.”

Rick has abandoned wearing a tie the past few weeks, favoring the open-throated dress shirt look. We keep losing and the addition of a medallion can’t be far off.

Bob, fair enough, “elite” is kind of nebulous. I guess I generally feel like you just know if you’re elite or not. Banners in the rafters might help. But maybe the simplest definition of an elite program is one for which final fours during their good years are not an unreasonable expectation? Not every year is a good year for an elite program, and of course expectations aren’t always met, but when Carolina or Kansas are supposed to be legit, they’re usually legit.

With regards to Longhorn sports, I try to come from the place that nobody wins all the time, and all we can ask for is to be in the mix (which may still be too much to ask for, I realize). Measured against that, we clearly have it pretty good, but personally, I’m fearful that we’re learning that Texas is not really in the mix in basketball. We don’t have the long history of success in the sport of some other schools, so in my mind, we have to take the next step before I can group us with the other programs that are usually considered to be the best.

Sky, I typed what was on my mind, and this is just the way I write. I’m not a lawyer, but being called one was a cool first. That it was also the first time I’ve ever been called a slut is probably more disappointing than cool.

Bobby,
Q. Do you know why they bury lawyers 10 feet down instead of six feet.
 A. Because down , down, down, down, they are good people. If offended disregard !

Wrong on 2 counts Bobby, Your post was interesting good IMO.
1. I did not call you a lawyer, I would not call anyone a lawyer. It was a reference about the NOB talking heads.

2. I was not clear in my statement about sluts, I was referencing the “negativity sluts” who revel in crisis ect… near the end of the article.

If I was calling you a slut or lawyer there would be no explanation needed as I would be very clear about it.
The comment on strippers does stand on it own merit ! The king is not naked !

The End

In Mack Brown’s final couple of years at UNC, I remember hearing from a lot of UNC fans (was living in NC at the time) that he didn’t have what it took. He can’t win the big one. There was a sentiment that they were one of the national elite, and their records and rankings were elite. When Mack left for Texas, those individuals were claiming to be pleased and felt their chances of knock off FSU and playing for the National Championship were improved. Would UNC have won a championship with Mack by now? Hell, I don’t know, but I’m reasonably confident that they’d still be a Top 20 team year in and year out.

This is the problem with new money. We think we deserve more and we begin to develop a sense of entitlement. I believe the similarities between basketball-first UNC with Mack Brown and football-first UT with Rick Barnes are strikingly similar. Coach Barnes has done things for our program that I never would have dreamed possible. Yes his offenses are frustrating — hell, they were back at Clemson also. Yes, he hasn’t managed the talent on this team very well, but I think we would be horribly foolish to think we’d be better off bringing someone else in. They guy is still pretty young. He’s still hungry. He’ll learn from this and hopefully do the things necessary to improve a pretty darn good product (irrespective of this year) and take us to the next level. I think the odds of him growing as a coach are significantly better than us going out and finding someone better. There are just too many variables that come into play. Just ask Butch Davis at UNC. He’s a very good coach, yet it’s not working for whatever reason.

I would hate to see us pull a UNC.

Excuse the many typos and poorly constructed sentences. I obviously didn’t proof read.

You are obviously not a lawyer!

Great write up, Scip.

How can anyone say that last year was a disappointment or that we underachieved? Last year’s team was not talented and our star point guard the left for the pros from the previous year. Our best player was a poor man’s clone of World B. Free but was also trapped in a point guards body. Did he actually make a professional roster on American soil?

There has been much debate on here and other boards about the job Barnes has done vs. the talent level on this team. I don’t disagree that this team has a good young nucleus of talented players, but they don’t always grow up on the time frame you want them too. Our game against Baylor will tell us a lot about our chances for a few W’s in the tourney. If JCB plays the way he played the final 14 minutes against OU, I think this team could make some noise. If he reverts back to what we have seen most of the year forget it. However, his play gives me hope for next year and I really like the way JH has come on down the stretch. This team will be much better next year with the 3 headed monster returning plus the addition of Thompson. If not, count me as one who will be sharpening his trident.

Great mention about Barnes’ achievements away from the court.

“that may be like being the hottest girl in Augusta, Maine.” Holla!!!!

I’m the second type, as Peter summed it up: I follow football, and I was forged in the fires of Weltlich on hoop, so as long as the Basketball team sniffs the tournament each year, I’m completely happy. Watching the fan base melt down this year about the team is both a good and bad sign. Good in that enough of the fan base cares to actually throw a coniption fit about the team, and Texas, by God, should have a fanbase that invested. Bad in that Rick now has to deal with angry boosters, something that I don’t think has been a problem too much in the past. It’s been a while sense he’s dealt with such pressure from the ACC, and Clemson was also a football school, so I’m not sure he really has ever dealt with a truly upset fanbase.

I guess I generally feel like you just know if you’re elite or not. Banners in the rafters might help. But maybe the simplest definition of an elite program is one for which final fours during their good years are not an unreasonable expectation?

That hasn’t kept people from bitching about 2007 (Durant, et al) or last year. Normally, I don’t think any school has a right to a FF, but I made an exception for UT this year because I thought their depth and upperclass experience was going to enable them to have a potential solution for everybody. Instead, Dexter Pittman’s frustrating inability to stay on the floor and produce, and the lack of any PG scoring threat has turned them into a run-of-the-mill team (which, if we’d known this going in, would have tempered expectations considerably).

I can pick through any coach’s record and find lulls and lows. Billy Donovan gets all sorts of credit from the surface crowd for winning two titles, but he hasn’t been back to the NCAAs since. Jim Boeheim misses the tournament regularly (not frequently). Same with Jim Calhoun. Coach K has made it out of the S16 once in the last eight years. Roy Williams has brought forth a bomb-o-rama for the ages this year — remember, they were preseason top five even with all their personnel losses. But all these guys have won NCs.

Barnes is our guy, and he’s been to the tournament every year, so that’s no biggie. He’s never even been in the bottom half of the draw since he’s been here. I think what bugs the “shoulda done more” crowd, ultimately, is the failure to win a title. But that doesn’t mean those same people won’t complain when he doesn’t win.

Bad job this year. He admits it. What can you say? Hopefully, he’ll learn how to walk the high expectations tightrope (as this is the second time he’s fallen). Hopefully, he’ll have to.

This was in USA today. I thought this was more like Barnes then what we have been seeing.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/big12/2010-03-03-texas-cover_N.htm

ThatUSA Today article is a response to the ESPN article that may have taken his complete comments out of context. In the ESPN article Barnes talks about being gentler and sending love you texts. To me this is classic mixed messaging as his body language indicates he is pissed off at the way they are playing.

The nail on the head for the problems with this Texas team is lack of leadership.

from article above…
“The biggest weakness might be the revolving door at the point guard position. The Longhorns don’t have a reliable floor leader.”

and ESPN article…
When James tested the NBA waters last spring, the question he heard most from GMs wasn’t about his workouts or the position he felt most comfortable playing. The suits always started his interviews wondering why Texas, which lost in the second round of last year’s Tourney, didn’t seem to have a clear-cut leader.
http://www.shaggybevo.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=60105&sid=7cd71997800beec37f71a687569af04a

Riveting discussion here. I’ll add my thoughts since they address many of the points raised in other posts.

Barnes has to take the good with the bad. When he first got here, he had to get on the loudspeaker at football games and write op/ed pieces in the Daily Texan to beg people to attend games when we were ranked in the top 10. I respect the hell out of him for that, because he could have just buried his head in his work trying to incrementally improve the program bit by bit. But he wanted more than that. He wanted to redefine the program, make it his own, and develop it into a powerhouse. Whether he’s achieved that is debatable, but doing so requires not only raising the expectations, but also the passion of the fanbase.

Comparisons to Mack at UNC are interesting. No doubt they elicit several similarities: recruiting high-caliber talent, coaching at a school prided on its “other” major sport, and ultimately falling short of fans’ raised expectations. I’m not aware of Mack’s coaching mannerisms back then, but his most over-looked trait is his willingness to self-examine and make dramatic changes in the face of adversity. We can all point to several seminal moments in Mack’s career where an unexpected outcome resulted in lasting positive change within the program (typically an embarrassing loss).

Has Rick shown the willingness to make such changes? I haven’t seen evidence that he will. Perhaps the exorbitant pressure of a high-expectation job (such as football at Texas or basketball at UNC) are necessary to push a coach into making such choices.

Texas’ athletic program is a reflection of the university and state as a whole. Hence, I expect our teams to be elite, particularly considering the size of the state and resources at our disposal, and I feel equally as strong as it pertains to academics. Texas basketball as it stands now, is not elite. Barnes, as he coaches now, cannot get us there until he can take a page from Mack’s book and make necessary changes.

Great read. I agree the Margarita glass is half full, but cannot ignore that Barnes lost this team in January. His accomplishments over his entire tenure has earned a do-over for 2010-2011, but no college coach can afford to lose two teams in consecutive season. I hope he knows how to recover with his players.

As long as the leader is a pro prospect at PG, there won’t be a problem.

I just called to say I love you.

Great fucking work Scipio.

As a Kansas fan that reads your site occasionally, I remember last summer when everyone here was excited about the season and the prospects for Pittman. It is not at all unusual for a player to fail to deliver on his promise, but a player only plays 4 seasons at most in college ball. Rick Barnes stays with the team until he retires or he is fired.

There is no question that coach Barnes has done some very good things for the basketball program at UT, but rising expectations for the team also raise the expectations for the coach. Texas is most definitely on the college basketball map now, but will it remain there if coach Barnes doesn’t start delivering some more consistent success? I think that UT fans and the UT athletic director need to start assessing some standards as to just exactly what will be acceptable in terms of performance in the next few years.

Coach Barnes has brought a great deal of respect to the UT basketball program, but it may be time to move on. Without establishing some goals for improvement, the program will probably do no more than what it has to this point in the last 10 years. I’m not saying that coach Barnes should be fired, but I am saying that you all should start thinking about exactly what your expectations are for coach Barnes and how long you are willing to give him to meet those expectations. Texas could certainly attract some big names in the college basketball coaching world and if coach Barnes cannot deliver any more than he has to this point, it may be time to move on.

Great discussion,

Point on. It depends what you want as a BB fan. I would put me in the class
of that Ilove the sport of BB and love Texas BB. I think paying someone 2 mill a year
putting him in the top 10 paid coaches pretty much answers that question. We want to be elite .Otherwise we are blowing money and perpetuating the image that Texas athletics has: throwing money around becaue we can and thinking money is all it takes to win.

I am also in the camp that we are miles from sound top ten Basketball. Our BB iq both on the bench and the court is glaringly lacking.

I question the recruiting strategy of studley AAU guys -one or 2 and dones – married with project palyers. I question the CEO of the program-great guy , steady solid coach-havingy the managerial or experience of a solid basketball elite program. Where in his resume does it say he studied under teh greats? If so please educate me.

There are clues that what we have is a solid guy and solid mid level coach doing all the great things everyone has spoke of. But I fear is what we have is a coach who is pretending to have the resume of managing all the various parts of building an elite BB program. Its more than game day and recruiting . Its running the whole program . So yes he is at the crossroads because at 2 mill a year the University is saying he is elite? Does he have the ability? We don’t know yet but that time is drawing near. He talks a good game of “doing it the Texas way” etc etc to justify his mind meld player destroying style. What is the Texas way?Get great palyers with weak fundies and destroy their athleticism?

So am I a pitchfork holder. No . But I am real close. But the shed is unlocked and I absolutley think it is darn good that a mob is forming and its a good thing that he sees this and hears that the natives are restless. So for me the 2 mill a year answers the question flat out. Otherwise don’t pay BB at Texas that kind of dough.

The hard fact is I love Texas BB and the reality of the situation we have right now has weighed heavily on my fandum. I simply think we are trying to pretend something we are not and in the process blowing good money on a good average Coach and good Human being making it impossible to change tracks thus most likely keeping us in the same position we have been for decades- a pretender. All show no go. Going to the B 12 tourney only to get trashed by the real deal players and coaches. The rich uncle who thinks he can buy class. The rich frat boy driving daddies money around. The school born on third thinking we hit a triple. If you want to keep Barmes you pay him what most likely his next job will pay. Texas is a destination job. Meaning its you final destination or at least the pinnicle of your career. So at next renegotiation time if we are where we are now, you pay for where we are. Flat out. Then at least we are being honest with Rick , Fans and ourselves.

I enjoy studying these writings becuase they support me in my flash and shockwave game building which I do rather alot of, however it’s a dissapointment all the comments that these sites are continuing to accumulate though, they ought to type this problem out.

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