Big 12 Legacy

Enjoyed the round up, Nickel. Good stuff.

That said, move up Casey Hampton. I’m pretty biased towards both the Steelers and interior D-Linemen (my favorite position players, for sure), but even by your own criteria, Big Snack should probably top that list.

Another reason to change our offense: People figured our shit out. We played 3 good defenses last year and they beat, raped and threw our bloody corpse in a dumpster behind a Stop N’ Go.

We have more talent than anyone we play. If we line up and give them a good mixture of play action passing, power running, screens, etc we will have success.

Spring is the time to experiment. If Davis doesn’t give the downhill running game/play action passing game a real chance at this point, we’ll never know whether or not it suits this set of players. I don’t think we’ve got the running backs to make this work. The problem is that we don’t have the wide receivers to execute the short passing game either. True freshman wide receivers seldom make a real dent in our offense. The defense better be real stout next year.

“Gilbert’s strength is the deep pass and that has to be set up by a running game. Incidentally, one of our best WR talents is a go deep guy (Williams), the OL is comprised of big maulers and they actually have a FB-type on campus in Barrett Matthews. Everything points towards man-blocking and under center sets.”

Exactly—not to mention more ball control while a talented young defense settles in and replaces Kindle, Houston, Muck and ET early in the year.

lawdog13: Vondrell Mcgee has long been considered an I-formation running back struggling in our scheme. Really the only guy that I think is more of a zone-runner is Tre Newton and he can still serve as a 3rd down back if he’s replaced.
Shead, Whaley, McGee, CoJo, and maybe even Fozzy would all likely benefit from this transition.
You’re right though, we don’t really have the receiving corp for the short passing game, maybe if Goodwin was around more…

Are there feral humans?

Timmons will be the short passing game guy.

Newy – I wouldn’t say Bama shut us down. We scored 21 points with a true Freshman back up.

The reason OU and NU stopped us is because they really didn’t have to respect the run. That is part of figuring us out, but I think part of it is having a terrible OL not run block for a running scheme that is horrible. We ran the ball 2 years ago with JC in more or less the same offense. If we have a better OL (or a JC who doesn’t need the best OL) and make a few better calls/scheming on the running game, suddenly NU and OU can’t blitz like crazy and jump every short route.

He Who Shakes Spears at God was also an unstoppable force of nature that greatly impacted our ability to run….or do anything. I actually would have liked to see Vince vs Suh. That would be fun.

I would caution you against going feral. It takes a really robust immune system to survive that.

Fozzy with a lead blocker will be pretty good. He always looks good when he doesn’t have to break a tackle in the backfield or at the line of scrimmage. Plus he’s probably the best receiver out of the backfield (might be a toss up with Tre).

Everyone looks better when they don’t have to hurdle the boddies of their OL and break tackles 5 yards deep.

“The reason OU and NU stopped us is because they really didn’t have to respect the run. That is part of figuring us out, but I think part of it is having a terrible OL not run block for a running scheme that is horrible. We ran the ball 2 years ago with JC in more or less the same offense. If we have a better OL (or a JC who doesn’t need the best OL) and make a few better calls/scheming on the running game, suddenly NU and OU can’t blitz like crazy and jump every short route.”

The reason the NU and OU defenses wipped our ass is because they could consistently pressure the shit out of Cot only rushing 4. More importantly they wipped out ass because nobody on O-Line could handle Suh or Granger by themselves or at times, at all. Both of these teams refrained from blitzing, for the most part, unless we were in an empty set in which they brought 6 and squatted on routes.

Alabama’s defense was shit. If it was not for dropped passes, and or the Colt injury we would have bludgeoned them with our offense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child

Most of the those kind of look like how I imagined Pip from Great Expectations looks like.

Rover, most of our backs – particularly the bigger ones – probably will be better in an I scheme. We just don’t have anyone back there who is elite in any scheme. Unless and until we recruit someone who is – hello Malcom Brown – we will over time necessarily put more emphasis on our strength, namely Gilbert (assuming we can find someone to catch his lasers). Lots of time between now and next Fall, but I don’t see many consistent weapons on this offense right now.

Next year will be Gilbert’s 1st year as a starter. A solid running game tremendously reduces the pressure on the young QB. The current UT backs may not be elite but we haven’t seen them run with good blocking yet. If the blocking improves, the running will improve. If the horns can run well enough to mostly keep the D out of nickel and dime packages, it will be much easier for Gilbert to pass.

Besides practising so much with Gilbert under center, Mack’s emphasis on h backs this spring makes me think he is serious about improving the run game. Cody Johnson, Whale, Barrett Mathews, and others have been talked about by Mack as possible h backs this spring and next season. These are all guys who are big enough to block an LB or maybe even a DE yet also can be valuable as pass catchers. In other words, they are multiple.

Having an O that can both pass and run efficiently makes the horns much more dangerous in the hurry up O.

Best Feral Kid ever:

“Newy – I wouldn’t say Bama shut us down. We scored 21 points with a true Freshman back up. "

They also forced 5 turnovers that led to at least 21 points.

Pro Bowls simply mean you either wanted a trip to Hawaii or your doctor wouldn’t write you a note to miss the game. No way Vince was among the top quarterbacks in the AFC this season and yet he was in the game with Schaub.

Three players that belong on that list ahead on Vince are Kevin Williams of Minnesota, Kyle Vanden Bosch of Tennessee, and Ahman Green. It could be argued based upon more yards and a higher ypr that Green could be #1 on your list.

As far as the rule change for Evil Roy big fucking deal. If you are Wilt an they widen the lane, prevent you from jumping from the free throw line on free throws, and ban dunking you are a game changing once in a lifetime player.

If the NFL decides to tighten up on spearing and things such as standing over the much bigger man you just knock out (i.e. Jack Tatum) you are a true bad mf’er.

If you are too fat, too slow, and too undisciplined to take proper pursuit angles you are dragging people down from behind I guess you are a great safety. Go figure.

Russell > Wilt.

Voiceintheback: go watch some Roy Williams highlight tape sometime. Horse collaring people from behind was but one of his evil tendencies. He ran a 4.53 at the combine so he was never slow. At any rate, my point was that he had a method that was so prominent and popularized that the NFL had to ban it (because it’s so dangerous). He was the best player on one of the Big 12’s best defenses ever and won a title.

You can say that ProBowls don’t mean anything but if you are there you are pretty good. It wasn’t my biggest determinant, obviously since Ricky only went to 1, but it’s silly to say they are meaningless.

Kevin Williams just missed the cut because he simply didn’t do that much in college. He blew up Senior year and in that season failed to make a huge impact in their games against either Texas or Oklahoma. Maybe he was a better pro than Roy but the college career counts just as much.
Ahman Green was maybe an oversight but I’m not putting him over the greatest college football player who, in 3 seasons in the NFL, has been ROY and held an impressive W-L record.
VandenBosch in the top 5 is a joke. He hasn’t been a nationally top player in the NFL and didn’t set the world on fire in the Big 12 either. Not like these 5 did.

Overall, if Wilt is your example of greatness then I’m not impressed with your case. I’m sure we can throw in your Husker boy Suh in 5 years or so after he ends MacNabb’s career with a body slam or something.

Wilt isn’t a standard of greatness? Nothing else needs to be said.

One of the all-time worst underachievers in the history of American sport. If he had anything close to an understanding of team sports his teams would have won every championship and he wouldn’t have been traded twice in his prime.
His greatest asset was a desire to puff up personal stats through the application of his enormous size which dwarfed everyone else in the league.
Roy Williams never dominated like Wilt (few do in any sport and none in football) but the rule changes for him were for the safety of players. He was doing something that was effective enough to have repercussions throughout the league and he was doing it to people his own size.
I don’t know if you watched the Sooners in 2000, 2001 or the Cowboys in the first several years with Roy but he had a big impact.

Roy Williams was good not great in the NFL. His use of the horse collar was overplayed. He didn’t use it all the time and he wasn’t the only one. Hell, in high school, that was the only way I was able to make a tackle. The reason he isn’t good anymore is he was never a good ball hawk safety. He was always a glorified linebacker and undisciplined. Look at his most famous play in college, it was something that the coaches specifically told him not to do but for some reason we have fucking Brett Robin in on the most important drive of your season. It was a dumb play that got rewarded with bad blocking. His downfall with the ‘boys came in that infamous Monday Night Game against the ’Skins when they couldn’t do anything offensively the whole game and they throw two bombs to Santana Moss who goes ride by Roy and they ’Skins steal one. He just good never cover.

Vince Young should not be on that list. You are putting way too much weight on his college career and not enough on his NFL career. Pro Bowls don’t mean shit anymore. Its about numbers and wins. While he has the wins, he doesn’t have the numbers. You need the numbers too as well, otherwise Trent Dilfer would be considered a great quarterback.

If you are not going to put Williams Kevin Williams because he didn’t have a great college career then you can’t put Vince Young in their because he hasn’t had a great NFL career.

Let’s say that you can get 50 points for your college career and 50 points for your NFL career. If Vince only scores 30-40 for his NFL success he’s still doing pretty well cause I’m giving him all 50 possible points for his college career.
Kevin Williams scores 30s for college and 40s for NFL. It just doesn’t add up.
Also, Vince Young has had some solid numbers besides just wins. And Pro Bowls mean something.
Roy Williams led the Cowboys in tackles for several seasons. When the league became more pass-heavy and a roving safety who plays around the LOS became less valuable he declined. To say he wasn’t a good ball-hawk safety isn’t really fair because he forced turnovers in college and early in the NFL he just wasn’t an interception machine like little Earl.

With this list I wanted guys who were national figures in College AND in the NFL. Who are the guys who we watch destroy on sundays but can’t help but reminisce on their careers in the Big 12?