Emulating the Broncos

So how many has boysee sent to the NFL over the past 10 years?

Around a 12 in the NFL and 4 more in the CFL, apparently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boise_State_Broncos_football#Current_NFL_players

If there’s one thing you need to take from Scipio’s write-ups it’s that next year’s 2-back offense absolutely has to be referred to as the "Jack’N’Jill offense""

The second he gets a royalty check, HenryJames is going be breaking out Grimm’s on a daily basis.

So in 8 years they managed to cobble together what would be an average single season for us. 2 TCUs, 2 Oregons, 1 OU, and 4 Oregon States would make for a decent single season schedule (though most of those OSU teams weren’t very good), but most SEC fans would be licking their chops at such a cakewalk. Yet, BSU will get a high ranking and hardly anyone will complain about their schedule, but we will get blasted in the media for our weak schedule if UCLA ends up crappy at season’s end.

I think Boise State would be in all likelihood another Iowa State if they were in the Big 12 North. There is the slim possibility they might have been more like the early-Big 12 KSU teams in Snyder’s first go around, but that is far from guaranteed. I think the mental aspect is very important…just ask Dan Hawkins.

Boise St. has accomplished more quality wins this decade than Iowa St. with far fewer opportunities. Just from the eye test alone it’s clear that Boise St. is at a much higher level than the cyclones.

They have beaten TCU once, and been beaten by them once, I believe

They beat TCU in 2003 and 2009.

The one thing you have to give Boise is that they are extremely well coached. For a lot of the smaller conference schools, playing the big boys is as much of a mental challenge as it is a physical challenge. Boise does not seem to suffer at all from the mental side, as their record indicates. However, they are rarely (if ever) deserving of a top 5 ranking. They simply could not take the season long grind that comes from playing in a major conference. Sure, they can get up once or twice a year to beat Oregon or oklahoma, but they could not sustain that for a season. You have to give them credit for trying, as they have been scheduling some decent teams on their non-conference slate, but their conference is such a joke that I don’t think they will ever be deserving of a top 5 rating.

We’ll go ahead and sign you up for the Geoff Ketchum school lazer.

Whoa, hold on there. Let’s not do anything drastic. Just pointing out that they never really have to play back-to-back big games, which is a very difficult part of a “big six” conference schedule. Texas 4-game stretch in ‘08 was brutal, and is something Boise simply doesn’t have to worry about. Moreover, there are teams in their conference (Utah State, New Mexico State, San Jose State) that have not been good, or even remotely decent, in quite some time. Let’s not ignore the conference they play in.

But Nickel you gave the hypothetical about them dominating the Big 12 North. All you have are a handful of quality wins to hold up as evidence. Even if they were well-coached, there is no guarantee they could mentally overcome being a doormat. If BSU entered the Big 12 at its inception they would have been a doormat, probably THE doormat of the conference. Even with superlative coaching and a weak division it is more likely they would have spent about as many weeks in the Top 25 as they currently have victories over BCS teams over the past 12 years. BSU stakes its claims on beating one decent team each year and then pasting, or sometimes even squeaking out wins, against a conference largely full of the worst teams in the FBS. The season they beat 2 ranked teams in row (much less even have to face such a difficulty) will be their first.

How is it more likely that they would suck in the Big 12 North? The lack of evidence of them against a string of good competition doesn’t necessarily damn them any more than their domination over weaker teams means that they are a powerhouse.
All the evidence we have is the eye test and the occasional contests with top-tier programs, all of which say that they are consistently better than over half the teams in the Big 12.

“The lack of evidence of them against a string of good competition doesn’t necessarily damn them any more than their domination over weaker teams means that they are a powerhouse.”

This is exactly my point. We simply won’t ever know how good they are as long as they play in the WAC. Yet you seem perfectly happy to give them the benefit of every doubt. In the quote above, you are basically conceding that there is no real evidence that they are a powerhouse. Yet in your article you point out that:

“What we do know is that they have enough depth to sustain excellence year after year. They haven’t relied on a few seasons with 1 or 2 standout players but have consistently put out strong teams. That suggests roster strength and player development that could weather the Big 12 better than has been advertised by figures like Ketchum. Does anyone think that they would have struggled to dominate the Big 12 North this decade?”

Sustained excellence? By what standard? Dominate the Big 12 North? Based on what evidence? You certainly seem to be making the argument that they are a powerhouse. Let’s not forget the minor miracle(s) that allowed them to beat OU. And last year’s Oregon game was one of the most brutal games I watched all year. I have nothing but respect for Boise, and I think they are a good team. I’m simply pointing out that there is really very little evidence behind their continual top 10 ranking.

Sustained excellence by every standard we have to measure them, and their accomplishments aren’t all trivial, they dominate solid smaller programs without pause and they have taken advantage of all their recent shots to take down power programs.
I wouldn’t put them in the national championship for the same reason you wouldn’t but I would absolutely include them in an 8 or maybe even 4 game playoff.
I think they are as much of a powerhouse as any school save for the super heavyweights and their best teams can go toe-to-toe with those squads.
Really all this argument establishes is the need for a playoff though, just like the Atilla v. Alexander debate warrants a geeky television show dedicated to semi-scientific simulation.

I’m a Sooner fan and I really like Earl Thomas .. good speed, incredible instincts, stays away from the cheap shots. Got to respect that.

Nickel,

I can agree with most of that. I think maybe my issues run slightly deeper than just being a devoted college football fan. I can’t stand the “everyone gets a ribbon for participation” attitude that our country seems to be adopting or the “we can’t have a winner because that means there is a loser” philosophy that seems to be so prevalent these days. I am all for positive re-enforcement, encouragement, and building people up. But I am also for reality. In life, there are winners and losers at everything. Losing doesn’t make you a bad person, and winning isn’t everything. Life isn’t fair. These are important priciples to learn. Yet Boise is the “participant” in college football. It’s not fair to their kids that they can win all their games, including a game or two against a good program, and not get a shot at the title. For this reason everyone wants to laud their talents from the mountaintop (i.e., the worldwide leader) and scream at the injustice. But hey, you play in the WAC. Life’s not fair. It is what it is. You won all your games, and it wasn’t enough. As long as you play in the WAC, it won’t ever be enough (in my mind, at least). Enjoy your accomplishment and move on. Let’s not waste time justifying a top-10 ranking and lamenting the fact that they don’t get enough respect. I’m not pointing the finger at you specifically there, Nickel, but more at the overall treatment BSU seems to get from the media. At the end of last year I was already hearing talk that Boise was a legitimate national title contender this year. I find that dumbfounding.

I guess they might be, knowing typical sports media they probably return their skill players and lose the core of their lines and will lose 2 games.
I’m not in favor of the redistribution of happiness either but I can’t pretend that in our super subjective system that one of these Boise teams isn’t the best of their year. They do pretty well on the eyeball test when you watch them against elite competition. Most likely they would get knocked out by a USC, Texas or Florida that just outmatches them with athletes but who can know for sure?
I will say to the favor of the anti-BSU crowd that their big win over OU was against one of the worst quarterbacks the sooners have fielded this decade…which is saying something.