The once and future king

Did Mack say Whaley was at 259? That’s insane. We should start a Chris Whaley weight tracker to record all the coachspeak about his weight.

Whaley is 259, 19 years old, and not fat at all.
 
What might that suggest about his future?

Yeah, he could be Bruce Smith one day if he didn’t want to carry the ball in the fourth quarter against Rice for two TDs.

Whaley to Right Tackle.

“HIs accuracy is better than Colts”

Colt had some flaws, but accuracy was not one of them. I reserve the right to review game time evidence.

I think accuracy on deep, down field throws he is better then Colt at. Colt was clutch at mid and short range passes.

Observations:

Running game: Whaley and Johnson are in a race to see who will become the next Javorskie Lane. Whaley probably has a future at DE/DT/H-back/TE given his size and frame. Johnson needs to decide to lose 20lbs or ride the bench. McGee – I feel for this guy but I don’t see a role for him. Fozzy and Newton will probably be our guys. What we will really miss is a guy like Ogbannaya, not because he was an awesome runner (he wasn’t), but because he could BLOCK and save Colt’s ass from the O-line’s failures.

OL: speaking of blocking, the season probably comes down to the OL. Given time, Garrett will make throws and win us games. On the other hand, if we have another season of “Uli’s turn” or “Kickin’ it with Chris Hall” then we in for a year of aggy-like misery.

WRs: between Hales, Williams, Goodwin, Kirkendoll, Chiles, and all the guys coming in we will be set. We should have one or two studs out of this group. We really need to use DJ Monroe more.

Defense: We’re going to miss Earl. Way too many guys at the spring game getting burned on the PA and deep throws. Front seven looked solid though. Vacarro has a 50/50 shot of being the next pre-NFL Michael Huff or an Andre Jones / Robert Joseph type of failure.

The comparisons between ’06 and this year are interesting. The ’06 probably had a better offense, but the defense that year SUCKED. Who can forget that wonderful trio of Derry, Killabrew, and Bobino getting destroyed by the option while Kindle and Muck sat on the sidelines.

Scipio: I’m not sure where his skill sets are best served if not as a Tight end/halfback or massive running back. His top end speed is wasted on OL and I’m not sure he has the mentality for defense (and how does he crack the depth chart?). Where do you think he ends up?

CAlonghorn, Tre Newton is already better than Ogbonnaya as a runner and a pass blocker. As a receiver he’s really solid as well, the kid is virtually guaranteed a role for the duration of his Longhorn career for the latter 2 skills on 3rd downs. If he had McGee’s or Fozzy’s acceleration he would be a star now.

Garrett’s accuracy is better than Colt’s.—-Nickel

You need to slow down a bit. Tap the brakes.

Accuracy does not equal completion percentage. I think Gilbert will complete a lower percentage of passes ( a stretch I know) because there will be more down field throws. I think Gilbert will do a better job of hitting guys in stride and fitting the ball in tight windows.

Dont mistake accuracy for completion %.

I think that was the point.

Don’t mistake playing Whaley at RB to the Henry Melton experiment. Melton had nothing more than decent athleticism for a man his size. He didn’t have the mentality or instincts. He tried to run like Fozzy. Whaley and Melton are two entirely different people.

I’m not saying a switch from RB to something else isn’t in store, but it seems like his biggest upside for this year is in the backfield.

An impostor! He can’t even spell my name right.

Balls have never seen as tight of windows and Colt’s found in 2008.

Lets not forget Colt was not the first QB ever to run a more or less dink or dunk pass game, and yet he did have the best completion percentage of any QB ever. Big ups to Quan and Jordan to help that, but give the man some credit. If nothing else, Colt was damned accurate.

In 2008 Quan had, if I remember correctly, 3 Pass Interference calls that he still made the catch on. Again, that says a hell of a lot about Quan, but that ball also has to be right on the fucking money as well to make that happen.

I dont think we had a single PI completion this past year, and I dont know if we will ever see 3 in a season again. That to me, is as impressive as setting the single season completion record, which is really fucking impressive as well.

Completing passes into baseball sized “windows” was one of Colt’s fortes. I’m all about being positive and enthusiastc and all that, but I think we need to see Gilbert play under fire and duress vs blitzes and OU and Nebraska and all that shit.

Hooboy.

Let me rephrase. Colt was awesome at fitting the ball in small windows on relatively short throws to Quan and Ship. Take the 08 OU game for instance Colt was nails with his ball placement (insert joke here). What I meant is that Gilbert will be able to fit the ball into windows that Colt rarely tried to fit the ball into, for example the hole in cover 2 up the hash at 18-22 yards. Colt did this rarely because that ball has to be a rifle shot and your margin for error is extremely small with both the safety and corner having eyes on the ball combined with the distance the ball has to travel.

I think that Gilbert allows us to attack tight down field windows that most of the time Colt did not attack as he was so good at tearing teams up underneath and then hitting them over the top.

Also the comment about accuracy was not a knock on Colt, it is just true. Completion % does not equate accuracy. There is correlation but not causation, one way or the other. This is the reason you heard many NFL personnel mention Bradford was more accurate than Colt. It was obviously not related to completion percentage but it was due to Bradford’s ability to get the ball to his receivers in stride an on the move. As well as the ball placement on contested receptions.

I think a lot of people are going to realize that we took 9 yards per pass attempt for granted.

Silly argument with data on only 1 side at this time. Some of you are turning hopeful semi-educated speculation into facts.

And I think that Gilbert is going to be superb. I like everything he’s shown thus far.

damn. a controversy between a departed senior and a kid who hasn’t started a game.

this place is amazing.

I’m all about being positive and enthusiastc and all that, but I think we need to see Gilbert play under fire and duress vs blitzes and OU and Nebraska and all that shit.

Does playing Alabama not count?

We can’t understate what Colt did, but if there’s anyone equipped to fill his shoes it might bet Garrett. Garrett has the potential to be a game changer and might be a more “traditional” QB than McCoy, I think Sam Bradford is a good comparison for him. Hopefully Garrett can handle pocket pressure better than Bradford, though.

If we can run the ball at all to keep defenses honest and give him time off the PA, people are going to watch Garrett torch defenses with his plethora of super-athletic targets.

Also, pressure is a good point, is Garrett going to be 2nd quarter NC Garrett or 3rd quarter NC Garrett when OU and Neb are on the field?

“Desean Hales stuck a goalpost in the spokes of the John Chiles bandwagon and gave me whiplash”

-Nickel Rover, you are beginning to grow on me. Not like a wart but like the pleasing aroma of Shiner Bock on draft.

Desean Hales looked real good. I remember being real impressed by his second gear to get YAC, especially on the noted slant for a TD. However it was a white walk-on in the secondary I think that was nearest to stop him. Regardless, Rice isn’t gonna know what hit them this September!

Nice stuff, Nickel.

I think a more apt description is that GG has the ability to be more accurate than Colt and has flashed that ability at times. To say anything else at this juncture is simply speculative hyperbole. I do think I’d take the bet that GG is going to be better than Colt by next season, but then again, didn’t most think Chris Simms was going to be the best QB ever at Texas because of the way he slung the ball in practice. Let’s let the kid grow into the role without unreasonable expectations.

I was a little disappointed not to see much of Sacho making plays at DT, but that was by design I assume. I still have my concerns about whether we’ll be a good running team and what that impact will have on our offense production. I believe the focus on the running game is a positive, but saying your going to do something doesn’t make it so.

Our defense will keep us in every game as long as the team doesn’t fall apart when Vaccaro gets arrested for decapitating someone vs. Tech…..

Patrick Bateman-
Sacho was held out of the game. that is why you didn’t see him making any plays.

I think all people are saying in regards to GG and Colt is that GG allows us to attack more difficult areas of the field with better chances of success. We are also saying he has the ability to be one of the best QBs in the game, not that he currently is.

I don’t think Nickel or anyone thinks GG will trot out and complete 76% of his passes for 3,800 yards and 30+tds next season. What you will see is throws Colt could not make that will make your jaw drop. You will seem him “stick the ball” on people and consistently put our receivers in the best position to make the catch and to make plays after the catch, regardless of where they are on the field.

It is my wild ass guess that GG will be 68% 3,100yd 26td passer.

Fico,

Yea, I was sloppy in my statement. I knew Sacho wasn’t out there, I was looking forward to seeing his switch to DT….

What your describing is a stronger and more powerful arm, not more accurate. And that’s absolutely easy to understand and believe, but it’s not a description of accuracy. FTR, I think GG could in time provide both. I do worry about GG if we can’t block for him. Colt’s athleticism and escapability may be under appreciated. Not that GG is some three toed sloth or something….

(Anti) Thoughts on Spring Game that I watched on TV:

1. Whaley. No more wasted breath on the Whaley situation please. Fans will have the same discussions about him as they did with Chiles (misplaced athletic talent debate) and his story at RB will unfold like Melton’s (miscast as a between the tackles power runner). Wake me up when in 2 years when Whaley winds up at either at DT or the Horns’ version of Manumaleuna.

2. New Run Game. First team O got stuffed by the first team D (with no SACHO)—probably averaged under 3 yards per carry until the subs rolled in. My guess is that it won’t take long until GD retreats to the pass and Mack defends it by saying that we can’t abandon the pass because “it’s been too good to us.” Not sure why we coach our motioning H Back to settle in his stance and sit on his heels prior to the snap—maybe Boise skipped over the part about playing football on your toes.

3. Desean Hales. Obviously, a good outing from him. But check out who was covering him on his catches before you get too excited.

4. Sherrod Harris. Get off his back. His first completion was impressive rolling to his left with an un-blocked defender in his face. The end zone toss to Fitz was the only place to put it since (shockingly) the walk-on DB’s were not fooled by the Shipley special. I’m just speculating but the throw to the cheerleaders looked to be a throw away due to WR error. I think he has the talend to win the back-up job but Mack & Co (not matter what they say publicly) will give the Freshman every advantage to beat him out due to future considerations.

5. Good. All can agree that Gilbert and the 1st team secondary looked good. Would have liked to see Malcom come up with that first catch against C. Brown but coaches tell us he has been making those plays all Spring. Agree with Nickel Rover re: Barret Matthews—he had the best play of the day against 1st team D.

I too thought Sherrod looked fine for a backup QB and our new run game looked like shit (but we have a great run defense!).

Also, Colt looked like shit against Nebraska and OU last year too so it won’t say anything less about GG if he fares poorly against them this year.

Everything that has been said about gilbert is stuff that can be figured out in practice… his arm strength, his power, his ability to hit a reciever in stride 25 yards out… These are all things that you don’t need to be in pads during the oklahoma game to get answers to these questions.

I don’t think its as crazy to make the statements that he has a better arm, or that he will be more accurate than Colt… Noone is saying that He will set the single season record for completion percentage or that he will even win 45 games ….

There is a reason Gilbert was the Number 1 guy coming out of High School and Colt was a 3 star .. these are also the same statements that will be justified in a few years when we see Gilbert drafted in the top 10 and why Colt will get drafted in the 2nd round.

These intangibles we are discussing have nothing to do with Heart or guts or toughness or experience… So when someone says that Gilbert is a better prospect or has a higher ceiling, these are 100% accurate.

 Noone is knocking Colt or saying that Garrett will come in and lead us to a championship right away

I fully expect Gilbert to lead us to the Big 12 Championship this coming year.

But the rest of the argument (accuracy) is speculative and specious at this time.

And no. The Alabama game was not a good measurement of Garrett’s abilities. Thank goodness, even tho he acquitted himself well. Very well in the second half.

I wouldn’t trade him for any other QB in the country at this point in time.

“Whaley is 259, 19 years old, and not fat at all.”

Disagree. Was definitley carrying some bad weight when I saw him in street clothes before the All American game in San Antonio, and the pictures that have come out since then all look like he’s still carrying 20+ pounds of bad weight.

Whaley is so much better than Melton it’s silly. I see a Jerome Bettis type running back knifing through tired defenses in the late 3rd quarter. He should and will get his shot. Mack letter McGee splutter for quite a long while. He will show similar patience with Whaley.

Mack told Whale to lose 25 pounds. You wonder a bit when a teenage primo athlete is 25 pounds overweight. It may be that Whale is just a big man and trying to get him skinny may be a lost cause. Whale has outstanding speed for a 260 pound man. Whale rushes much better than Melton ever did. He understands the value of running over people.

Mack is having Smith and Matthews switch positions (i.e. Matthews to TE, Smith to H back). Matthews’ catches and running ability in the spring game plus his speed have convinced Mack to make the switch. Evidently in the GD scheme, the TE has way more receiving opportunities than the h back gets. Smith will be primarily a catcher of very short dump pass. As Nickel Rover indicated, I’m pleased to see Matthews go to TE. He was very impressive in the spring game, a lot better than I realized (faster, better hands, and a more elusive runner).

The next step is to put Whale as the h back rather than Smith. Whale gives you so many options as the second running back. For one, he can run the ball, which means you can now fake to one back going one way and hand off to the other back going the other way. In the passing game, Whale is a huge speedy target with good hands. Blocking is probably not going to be an issue because he relishes contact when running the ball. With Whale at h back, you can shift Newton to WR and Whale to TB to completely change the look of the O without changing personnel. Whale is probably the most multiple player (along with Malcolm and Chiles) on the O. Whale needs to be on the field and Smith is the obvious guy to replace. Using Whale as the 3rd string TB just seems like a waste of a unique talent.

I just took a shot everytime Kafka typed “Whale.”

Horncasting,

The AA game was well over a year ago. Whaley has some excess weight, but not a lot. He’s in pretty good shape. If he were at DE, nobody would say anything about his weight, but because we expect our RB’s to be ripped, we worry. Mack telling Whaley to lose 20 lbs. is probably Mack’s way of telling him to be mindful of his weight. Don’t get any bigger or you’ll be moved.

Oh, I’m sorry Whaley, did my pin get in the way of your ass? Do me a favor and lose twenty five pounds immediately or get out of my building like now!

Who the hell cares if a QB has a strong arm or is accurate “in practice” Nobody even touches the QB during practice-they wear these nice “pink” jerseys. If you get within 15ft you get your ass chewed. The only thing that matters is can the QB be accurate when the 270# 4.5 d-line man across the way is trying to turn your legs into Theismann like spaghetti.

Relying on the MNC game to predict Gilbert’s future ability is like judging Keanu Reeves based on Bill and Ted’s excellent . . . wait no that’s not a good comparison. like judging A&M based on the Core . . . no still not right. Moving on.

Hitting receivers in stride may or may not reflect on Colt/ Gilbert’s accuracy, but it may also reflect on a number of things like arm strength, play calls, coverage reads, the guy’s running the route, the d coverage and pass rush.

As I said above I’ll wait and see if Gilbert is more accurate than Colt but Colt was a very accurate QB.

Please don’t make 3-star v 5-star arguments about which one is more accurate, I’m not even going to bother rebutting such inanity. Ryan Perrilloux can do it for me.

It’s not as though we’ve never seen Gilbert under pressure, and his mechanical responses to it that I’ve seen in garbage time, the national championship, and practice/scrimmages are much more professional than Colt’s.
He’s a better pro prospect and potentially a better college quarterback if they can build around him. Using a power-running game and pro-sets is a good start. If Gilbert started at Alabama they would be untouchable.

Using Gilbert’s response under pressure in the MNC is not what I would call supportive of the argument that he will be a better QB or even more accurate than Colt. For half the game he looked awful. For the other half he looked adequate, he never looked better. (Colt played a much better game against OSU his freshman year for example). There are plenty of valid reasons for this and given his performance vs his preparation I would say he did very well. But there is a lot of hoping in one hand going on around here. Gilbert may turn out to be a better QB I don’t know, but Colt was damn good and apparently way under appreciated.

“Please don’t make 3-star v 5-star arguments about which one is more accurate, I’m not even going to bother rebutting such inanity. Ryan Perrilloux can do it for me.”

I know your job is to try to belittle people or make them sound stupid but You’ve got to be kidding me right… Ryan Perrilloux’s problems had nothing to do with his talent or the fact that they missed on him being a good qb… On the field the guy was a freaking stud that would have got paid millions of dollars. His problem was off the field, because he was a dumbass that couldn’t stay out of trouble. That has no merrit with any argument about missing on 5 star talent from an evaluation standpoint.

How do you think they judge those skill sets… most of the time its in workouts and camps that rivals or scouts puts on in a simulated environment..

The same skill sets are judged by the NFL scouts at pro days or the combines… where those guys are wearing PINK jerseys and in practice..

Noone is saying that just because your a 5 star means your going to be better than a 3 star.. but lets be honest with ourselves most of the time the 5 star is better than the 3 star.

The only thing I’m saying is Gilbert got the 5 stars because his skill sets are better than Colts… I also said that doesn’t judge his heart or like you said how he will respond when a 270 lb lineman is trying to turn him into brittle…

He is a better Quarterback… noone said anything about him being a better football player / Colt was a natural leader and winner, those things will take time and maybe years to see if Gilbert can be as gifted as Colt in those areas..

Roach-
Go back to the first half of the MNC game and tell me how many of those incompletions were drops. I can think of one drop the took a TD of the board and the very next play was int. If the catch was made that is a completion, 30+ yards, -1 int added to the stat line. Malcolm dropped a handful and even Ship dropped one or two off the top of my head.

Gilbert made some bad throws in the game and missed some reads but he also made plenty of good throws that were not caught. While that might make his completion percentage look bad, they were not bad throws.

Roach, I think you’re wrong on several points friend.
To begin with, Colt’s performance against OSU was not better than Gilbert’s against Bama. Colt didn’t really show anything in that game.
While it’s easiest to say that Gilbert settled in in the 2nd half it was also his teammates and Davis that did so. There were a dozen drops in that game and many came in the first half, along with the fluke shovel pass deal and missing shipley on the sluggo.
I thin he handled the pressure in that game reasonably well and my main point is that he moves in the pocket like a pro where Colt would always bail.
If it seems like Colt is under-appreciated here it’s only because he is now being evaluated like a pro quarterback against the NFL and against his backup who happens to be what the NFL craves instead of as a college quarterback where he clearly excelled. We could all go on about all his fantastic attributes like we have the last 4 years if you like.

Oh, good work Fico.

Colt was great, and he’s not underappreciated, Gilbert is just a better version of Colt. That’s it.

Colt is Nintendo. Gilbert is whatever the hell you hemitting fools are playing these days.

Magnus – we can argue what amounts to “a lot” of excess weight, but my response was to Scipio who made the comment that he was not fat at all. Kid had a gut on him when he showed up and doesn’t appear to have put a dent in it in the last year.