The Big 12 in the pros

Kindle was projected to go last year where he went this year. He could have easily of slipped last year and now he is in an ideal situation with the Ravens. And he got to win a conference title and dominate in the NC game. I don’t feel bad for him. I think he went up at least 15 spots from where he ended up last year.

all the Big 12 players drafted in the first round were from OU?

Russel, maybe you didn’t learn about hyperbole in stillwater. You might notice that Ndamukong Suh, the 2nd overall pick, went to Nebraska.

Dick, you’re right that on the field Kindle has had a good career with a lot of potential opportunity but he also lost millions of expected dollars. If he stays healthy he could make it back for what Baltimore offers him in on the field success but in the short term he isn’t “breaking the bank” like he hoped.

He didn’t lose money by staying, he was a mid 2nd rounder last year at best and an early 3rd at worse. He lost quite a bit in the past week with this knee issue but are we sure that was a result of something that happened this year and not something undetected from a while back? Regardless, your success in the NFL is heavily predicated on the system and team you get put in and he couldnt have asked for a better situation there.

I’ve got to quit drinking while reading about me. I’d get the joke sober. I think

He actually did lose money. The money he would have made from spending 2008-09 in the pros as well as the loss of expected millions from a better draft placement to be earned by staying and improving his game.

Gresham would have been a Moss-level factor for OU and Greg Davis is a little underrated, as the offense ticked with Colt and Shipley and an RB who couldn’t start at Tech. Bradford is a difference maker, but those receivers were just awful. Check Bradford’s stats against Baylor. There were so many drops the WRs were getting booed.

I’m cynical, but I think the Tebow pick was pure marketing. The Focus on the Family folks down the road from Denver are going to eat that shit up.

OU having three of the top four picks and also Gresham in the first round makes beating them 4 of the last 5 all the sweeter.

Couldn’t disagree more about Bryant. He’s almost impossible to guard, and he hasn’t been really healthy in like, what…5 years? He keeps adding to his game every single year. Yes, he’s not as athletic as he used to be, but he compensates with one of the best post-up games in history, improving his 3-point shot greatly, and getting to the free-throw line efficiently. He’s also a really good defender when he wants to be, and still nobody is better with the game on the line. Saying that Gasol and Ginobli are on the same level is laughable. HA HA (Gus Johnson style).

That said, I do agree Durant is basically at the same level as the Mamba and will be a better overall player than Kobe when history has its say (although Kobe’s legacy is pretty incredible).

On a side note, I’m surprised you didn’t include Chris Paul at the end of your post.

Chris Paul is injured right now so he isn’t playing at a comparable level. The idea that Kobe is impossible to guard is pretty ridiculous. He’s shooting 38% in this series and is content to hit difficult fadeaways over smaller defenders. If he’s not healthy that doesn’t mean he’s playing exceptionally well it’s just a why for his non-dominance. His 3pt shooting percentage this season is 32.9% down from his career average of 34%.

As for Ginobili and Gasol. Ginobili, when healthy like he is currently, is similarly difficult to guard, penetrates better and has the comparable shot-creation skill. On a side not, again, he also comes at a much lower cost.

I would argue that Gasol might do more for the Lakers than Kobe. Everyone looks at Kobe’s points totals. Well he achieves those numbers by taking large numbers of both good and stupid shots. Gasol shoots at a higher percentage, rebounds significantly more and protects the rim on defense. When the Lakers win Kobe is typically taking under 25 shots and allowing Gasol to get higher percentage looks.

Based on the statistical evidence Kobe Bryant is not the basketball god who demands worship like your pronouncement suggests.

Best post-up games in history? I’m not sure he even breaks the top 200, you need to put down the glue bottle.

So let me get this straight, Ginobli gets the pass as one of the players you’d most build your team around/plays at a comparable level despite the fact that he’s chronically injured essentially because he is cheaper. Hmmm, seems like just a TAD bit of bias to me…

Yes…those are the differences between a star wing and a star big man, thank you. Other than the ridiculous assertion that Gasol does more for the Lakers, that’s just false.

Kobe isn’t playing well in this series. Is that the barometer for the rest of the season as well? I’ll save the time, the answer is a resounding no.

Kobe is one of the most unstoppable and technically adept players in the post. This is helped by the fact that he’s usually being guarded by other guards who aren’t used to being down there, plus he just moves better than big men and has way more moves than most of them. It helped for that guy Jordan too. I really hope the “not top 200” claim is just rhetorical hyperbole. He’s easily top 30, which I would say qualifies for being at the top. Just because he doesn’t live there, doesn’t mean he should be penalized for it. Again, Jordan was one of the best also…

I understand that you don’t like him, but you just aren’t looking at him objectively. Not surprising, people from Texas seem to generally HATE the guy. FWIW I hope he gets destroyed for the rest of the series, because I love basically everything about the Thunder. Thanks for your contributions to the site, I love reading them. Reasonable people can disagree :)

Thanks Blake, but I think you are wildly wrong about Kobe. His post-up is a means of saving energy, is limited in variety to a fadeaway, isn’t hit at a higher percentage (good forwards shoot around 50% in a good year), and can only be executed against guards. I’m not sure his post-up game is one of the best 30 this season, much less of all time.
I don’t think Jordan was an elite post-up player either.

I think I made the deferment that Ginobili’s chronic injuries was the deciding factor that knocked him down but I’ll repeat it. Kobe is healthy more often (or healthy enough) Ginobili has trouble staying healthy for an entire season. When both are healthy I think the gap is small.

The difference between big men and small men is usually that big men are more valuable. A really great power forward or center is generally worth more than a really good shooting guard because they just offer more advantages in a game of putting a ball in a 10 foot high basket. The great ones can get the easiest shots and prevent the easiest shots.

Most of the greatest players of all time who aren’t big men are guys that can manage the game and create shots for themselves and everyone else. Kobe does that really well but not historically well enough to match bigs like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar or “small” guys like Jordan, Bird or Magic.

And in final defense of Pau Gasol: Gasol attempted 844 shots in 2009-10 and on 13 shots per game scored 18.3 ppg. He also averaged 11.3 rpg, 2 “stocks” (steals plus blocks), and 3.4 assists per game.

Kobe Bryant attempted 1569 shots per game on 21.5 shots per game for 27 ppg. He also averaged 5.4 rpg, 5 assists per game and 2 stocks per game.

Can you really say that there is a huge difference in production save for Kobe have nearly twice as many opportunities to shoot? With the same number of shots as Kobe completed at the same rate as he did with 13 shots per game Gasol would finish with 29 ppg, while he averaged 2 fewer assists, the same number of stocks and twice as many rebounds.

That’s what a great big man offers and it’s really hard to match it if you aren’t a Bird, Magic or Michaelf Jeffrey Jordan. Do you call all that bias?

I just don’t see the “all that” that you are talking about. You keep saying it’s wrong, but I’d take a great wing (Kobe, LeBron, Durant, MJ) over a great big any day of the week. The best bigs aren’t de facto better than the best wings. My opinion is that a star wing is the most dominant position in basketball, because the ceiling is so high.