Mack Brown, Vince Young Will Muschamp

What do you make of it?

Don’t let Muschamp get away.

Bingo.

“What do you make of it?”

Get Vince Young back?

Bingo again.
 
You guys are 2/2.

I’m glad we didn’t have to find out, but I wonder what happens in 08 and 09 without coach boom. We were going to have growing pains with Colt. That is to be expected of a QB during his Fr and Soph year (and we’re going to see some this year). Would you be putting “Room mates” beside those 2 years instead of boom? I doubt that for 09. Our defense won us too many games. Maybe for 08.

No one would notice if we just gave him Chiles’ number. He’s black. Vince is black. They both run fast. Everyone expected Chiles to be the next VY anyway. 90% of the population wouldn’t know the difference. The other 10% would be the people who have seen Chiles play.

Aggies and sooners would totally agree with you. They contine to maintain that without Vince Young and now Muschamp Brown simply cannot win the big one. What they don’t understand (aside from higher math and daily bathing) is that nobody at Texas cares. Because Mack Brown continues to bring “transformative figures” into the fold. Given his track record I see no reason to think he won’t continue. To me using this argument had always been similiar to the “if that guy wasn’t rich he wouldn’t get laid” line. It’s always spoken by the guys with no coin, and it should always go without saying.

What do I make of it?

Three Scipio articles in one day means that someone made bail.

“To me using this argument had always been similiar to the "if that guy wasn’t rich he wouldn’t get laid" line.”

Well put.

Plus, because the ability to bring in elite people can build on itself, it’s not like if we lose Muschamp that we are going back to 10-3. We can almost certainly go get the next best young DC, just like we will have our pick of QBs for some time to come.

I think it’s just about right. People act like national champions and era-defining programs are available like drunk sorority girls at a piano bar. They’re not: they take a great leader who executes in the spotlight, plus a heap of luck.

Mack has executed and put himself in a position to take advantage of luck.

Scip, you might want to grab some Zzzzz’s after this binge.

I can make a hat. Or a brooch.

It tells me that Mack is a very good coach when he has very good players and average coordinators. He is a great coach when he has the best player of all-time or a great coordinator. What does that mean? Hell if I know. All great coaches need great players and great staffs. It’s not a knock on Mack to say he hasn’t been great without Vince or Mus. It’s just a factual observation.

UT06 -
 
If Akina, or even the average Mack DC of his tenure, is coaching the ‘08 defense, we lose three games. OU, OSU, TT. I won’t even ponder the bowl. Guess what? A 10-3 season. We’re in agreement on ‘09. Obviously, that ’09 defense singlehandedly won two games for us.
 
FlamingMonkey -
 
Just to clarify – you don’t think that’s where I am coming from?
 
parlin -
 
Who knew they would take Camaro t-tops in lieu of bail money?
  
L’hooka -
 
Plus, because the ability to bring in elite people can build on itself, it’s not like if we lose Muschamp that we are going back to 10-3.
 
Really? We sure about that?
 
We can almost certainly go get the next best young DC, just like we will have our pick of QBs for some time to come.
 
Oh, we’ll just get the next best young DC. Like we have so many times before. Got it. Maybe make him coach-in-waiting too? And if we lose Mack, we’ll just snatch up the next Urban Meyer, but one with more ethics. Just pluck him right from the coaching orchard. C’mon man.
 
Bates -
 
Thank you for worrying about my sleep, nana.

"What do you make of it?"

Make a human centipede out of Mack, Vince, and Boom, and then somehow impregnate it?
If that’s not where you were going, my apologies.

Barton -
 
I’m pleased with both your logic and Airplane reference.

“He is a great coach when he has the best player of all-time”

This debate doesn’t belong here, but I tend to stray from labeling him with that…. until, I do this exercise: Who would you rather have on your team, Vince or Barry Sanders? Probably Vince. Vince or Tommie Frazier? Close, but Vince. Vince or Ricky Williams? Fuck off, I’m not answering that. Vince or Tony Dorsett? Vince. Vince or Tim Tebow? Haha. Vince or Charlie Ward? Vince. Vince or Earl Campbell? Is nordberg gonna have to choke a bitch? Vince or Billy Sims? Still Vince. Vince or, uh, Doug Flutie?

and, then I come to the realization that you’re probably correct.

I don’t know, Nordberg. I’d take a real close look at Reggie McNeal.

Darrell Royal was in deep shit until Steve Worster and 4 or 5 other AA’s showed up and Emory Bellard developed the Wishbone.

Great players always precede great coaches.

nordberg -
 
I’m with you. I don’t like the homerish feel of it, but within the construct of the college game playing in a spread offense, Vince Young at his peak is the most dangerous QB in college football. Ever.

There’s a sale at Penny’s.

Rich dudes do get disproportionate action to their looks. In my milieu it’s not a gripe, it’s a maxim.

Who’s the next transformative figure? Gilbert? Or is he Simms?

I’ m not over the Alabama game (Macho Grande).

Just have to wait until 2028 and get VY jr onto the field. I’m sure Mack has already offered.
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20100411/SPORTS01/4110348/2161

Yep, having Vince/Muschamp really helps, and I’m glad Muschamp won’t run out of eligibility if Belmont can keep the buzzards away and keep his pockets lined with cash/annuity slips.

However, consider the what might have been had two QB runs (one against KState in 2006 and one against ’Bama in 2010) just been harmless 3 yard losses instead of injuries to Colt…

Thank God! Finally a Human Centipede reference.

I’d rather see Stoops at the back behind Jason White and that short little effer that killed us with the smoke draw… but that’s just me.

i am of the belief that mack was not up to the task when he was hired. it took several years and a number of miss hires before he began putting it together, staff-wise. now he’s ballin’. every hire has been better than the one before. that’s the number one job for a head man, and he’s got it down.

Scip – Absolutely not. But more to the point I’m not sure it matters. I was just noting that a similiar argument has been bantered around the interwebs by our rivals. That is the guy in the Pinto yelling at the guy in the One-77 that if they drove the same car he’d kick his ass all over the road. Maybe he’s right, but arguments that fall along the “ifs and buts” category are faulty and pointless. At the end of the day we’re still beating you off the line. That’s the reality of the situation. Mack might not be able to win it all without superb help. Thank god he has it.

Also we drive one hell of a car.

On the article on Vince there’s this line.

“After the Titans started 0-6, Collins was benched and Young went 8-2. Going into the 2010 season he remains the starter.”

Am I the only person that thinks it’s crazy that they even have to say he’s still the starter?

Did I mention how much I hate the Texans for not picking Vince?

Scip -

Great piece. There is a third line of demarcation, however. Look between 2000-2001: 9 wins, 9, 9…11, 11.

Brown’s administration is a ratchet. Once it moves up, it doesn’t slip back (much anyway). Putting the Simms/Applewhite mess aside, 2001 was the first full Mack Brown roster. Folks didn’t think much of him as a strategist then, but he did (and still does) have a strategy: Overwhelming Talent Advantage. There were so many good players on campus by the 2001 season that it would have been hard for them to lose more than two games (or win less than 10). Remember, the Brown administration started with Jeremy Jones trying to cover Brian Poli-Dixon in the UCLA re-match (no knock on Jeremy Jones—tough kid).

Once he re-set the talent ratchet, the missing ingredient was the truly elite, transformative figure: VY.

Then the ratchet slipped, Mack got mad and he went out and got another one: Will Muschamp. Assuming Muschamp stays and the recruiting machinery is well-oiled, Texas is elite. If Muschamp leaves, then Mack has to do something else. Empires don’t last forever.

Mack Brown has a great trait that many other successful coaches lack- the ability to notice when something is or isn’t working. I think “genius” coaches get too hung up on their precious schemes, and wedded to the strategies that made their careers. Mack has never been saddled with that term (although don’t sell him short- his OC and QB coach job at LSU in the early ’80s was fantastic), and so has a freedom to adapt and change.

He has decided in 2010 to go with play-action passing from the “I” formation. If that doesn’t work, I fully expect to see a competition mid-season between the QBs to see who is best at zone read. Winning games is more important to Mack than proving points.

As for VY- you can do that exercise for a lot of coaches. Take the Street starts from Royal, and his winning % goes down notably. Take Frazier away from Osborne, and he looks a lot like Schembechler. Take Walker away from Dooley, and his career is a lot different. These transcendent players are rare, so credit to the coaches who know what to do with them. I’m convinced that if Vince Young went to Miami, Coker would have played him at WR or TE.

I suppose Tim Brewster deserves some credit fir staying on VY after Mack backed off. It’s hard to imagine 2003-2006 without VY as a Longhorn but that came damn close to happening.

It means we got lucky.

Do you feel lucky?

Did any other teams that have had consistently good or great records over the last decade also get lucky?

"To me using this argument had always been similiar to the "if that guy wasn’t rich he wouldn’t get laid" line."

I used to get this line from aggy about the ‘98 Ricky game. "Well, you guys would have never won if you didn’t have Ricky." Yeah, but we did have Ricky. And we did win. Fag.

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity and nearly knocks him over with an overzealous chest bump.

Good observations, Scipio – I think you’ve touched on management styles and influences before, and I think these are key to the Texas football program and their success and (relative) struggles on the field during Mack’s tenure.

My overall philosophy of effective personnel management is that, depending on the situation, you need to be able to offer a hug on the neck or a kick in the ass. Yin and Yang, or whatever cliché of balance that you prefer, the leader (or leadership) needs to have both.

What is notable about the streaks of good and outstanding results for Texas football under Mack Brown is that with the latter, there is a blend of both styles of leadership on the team. Having only the ‘love’ aspect results in a degree of laxity and a sense that the team can rest on what it has and doesn’t have to reach for the next level because it isn’t demanded. Having only the ‘hardass’ aspect gives you Bob Stoops – a leader who may realize high performance in the short term; but eventually this devolves into a belief that the player is merely a commodity, and they eventually suffer a loss of commitment to the success of the unit.

I believe that Mack clearly has the ‘hug on the neck’ aspect well in-hand; having Vince (as a team leader) and Will Muschamp (as DC and heir apparent) offers the harder edge that Mack doesn’t seem to possess. I’ve heard stories here and there over the last several years about Mack being a hard-ass behind the scenes. I will respectfully decline to buy into that, and I sense that many of the players on roster feel similarly.

Adding the leadership influence of Vince Young as an on-the-field leader, or Will Muschamp as a member of the staff, provided the blend of styles that helped players to understand that while they were cared about and supported, they also were subject to consequences for failing to perform and meet expectations.

Corollary question: given that Muschamp is more of a hardass (at least publicly), does he have the requisite ‘hugging’ skills to balance his edge once Mack leaves? This is a nagging question that I ask myself from time to time – namely, how much of his success is the synergy with Mack’s style, and how much of it is sustainable independent of Mack?

UTHookem- I get your point. But life is replete with those regrets: What does this program look like if Roy Williams and/or BJ Johnson hold on to any of those touchdown passes against Oregon in the Holiday bowl, or Jamaal Charles hangs on to the ball against OU?

Taylor really hits the nail on the head: Mack’s ability to honestly reflect on himself and the program is his greatest strength (Greg Davis aside), even if he can be thin skinned when the media pesters him about it.

Are you saying its a bad thing that he goes consistently 10-3 when he doesnt have an X-factor with him (be if Vince or Muschamp)?

If your head coach alone is good for 10-3, thats fan-fucking-tastic. The star QBs and hot coordinators will come and go (as much as I too love Muschamp in a totally manly, football way, I dont think the drop off from him to Greg Robinson when he was here is all that great), and if you can pair that with a program already 10-3 good in a major conference, you’d take that every which way you can, say thank you, and ask for more.

The disastrous 2007 A&M game was a seminal fro Mack’s program that can’t be ignored, imo.

He was in his mid-50s when most of us are comfortable in our skins and resistant to change. But change he did. From the top down.

He changed the program from the top down beginning with himself. Recall the pre-bowl preparations and attitude adjustments he demanded from his staff, his players and himself. This had a direct impact on his Muschamp hire a few weeks after kicking Arizona’s ass in the Holiday Bowl.

Mack has been different since that Thanksgiving in 2007 and there has been no turning back since. We’re 26-2 since then, arguably the top program in the country, should have played for 2 NCs if we hadn’t been screwed by a shit Big 12 rule, and some idiot coaching votes, and more of the same is coming this year.

As soon as anybody starts with the whole “well he can’t win without [insert here]” then the whole argument turns into a farcical “Ditka” skit from saturday night live. You might as well expect Mack to beat the ’94 Cowboys by himself while sitting in a lawn chair. As the point was made above, the perception of a great coach is made by the guys he has working for him.

Nolan Ryan may be the greatest pitcher of the modern era but look at his won-loss record with the Houston Astros. These are “team” sports for a reason.

Levander,

Regarding your corollary question. A friend of mine was hanging out with one of the walkon DB’s last year. He said Muschamp can get crazy in practices, but behind the scenes in one-on-one coaching situations he’s real calm, cool and encouraging. For instance, you do something on the field in practice and he’ll go off, lighting your ass up. You then go over to him and just like that he’s totally collected, explaining what happened and what needs to happen and then sends you back out. He basically knows how to good cop/bad cop it all on his own.

BOW – good to hear some examples of that blend w/r to Muschamp.

I don’t mean to suggest that either Mack or Boom is bereft of the opposite quality, but I think it’s pretty clear that each of them has a primary / dominant style. I believe that anyone that gets to that level of achievement has to possess some of both.

That said, I think it will be a mighty challenge for Muschamp to fill the void that Mack currently fills without seeing a drop-off. That’s not a knock on him, but more so an acknowledgement of how successful Mack has been at the relationship building side and how difficult it will be to replace what he offers.

Mack Brown is a more evolved Bobby Bowden. I mean that as a sincere compliment. We are lucky as hell to have him.

Nero, I have as many Cy Youngs as Nolan Ryan. So do you I’m guessing.

Things are beginning to draft into hyperbole on this thread.

Just like the Brazilians have “Joga Bonito”, I have as a fan a preferred style of football to watch. I’m glad Mack is at least saying they are going to put the qb under center and run more north/south. I love that Mack wins a bunch of games. The next step, selfishly for me, is for him to win games with beautiful smash mouth football. Aesthetically, I really can’t stand the spread.

Incidentally, the Brazilian fans are pissed at how their game has recently started to mirror the defensive style of the European teams.

Magnus -

that’s my point. It’s hard to win cy young awards when nobody is driving in runs for you and you lose all of your starts 2-1. The cy young is subjective, and, if you look at the history if winners, the biggest factor in determining the lead vote-getter is W/L. Nolan’s teams never helped him win any games.

Levander,

Completely agree. Mack and (just as importantly) Sally’s ability to create and foster a family atmosphere is phenomenal and above average I’d like to think. He’s a master.

“Mack’s ability to honestly reflect on himself and the program is his greatest strength (Greg Davis aside), even if he can be thin skinned when the media pesters him about it.”

I don’t think the “Greg Davis aside” is even necessary. I think Mack has reflected on it, and has concluded that for all of GD’s shortcomings as an OC, his work as a QB coach is a HUGE part in sustaining the 10 win baseline, and keeping Texas, year in and year out, within striking distance of an MNC. At no point since Mack has been here has QB play been the primary weakness of a Texas team. Look at every other top tier program, and see when their “off years” were. They tend to coincide with shit QB play.

Nero: Was that a soccer take in the middle of a great football thread? WTF?

You know the old military line “Think logistics not strategy.” Mack has a great mind for logistics.

For example, if your a high school football coach, I believe you can walk right into the football offices and get a tour —that probably lends you a pretty good opinion of the program.

If your a player Texas wants you get an offer you can’t refuse by the time your a second semester junior. Mack leverage supply and demand to nail down our recruiting before most other programs even know who they want. Look at A&M and their scattershot method of offering every player in the state.

Mack’s coaches by and large stick around, he has created a great sense of continuity within the program. Our assistants are some of the highest paid in the nation. Our facilities are some of the best in the nation.

All of these things were brought here by Mack Brown. Our players are treated first class in everything they do. It’s a culture of success and it was implemented by Mack.

The strategy by and large is left to the assistants. In some cases that’s a big bonus in some not so much, but the logistics are kick ass in every way.

Nero-
two words: Zach Greinke

Tim Lincecum

Let’s not let the facts get in the way here guys, I was on a roll!

BobiH-
The only things a university has going for it outside of coaches influence are family legacy, fertile recruiting ground, location and academics. And hot chicks. So yeah, lucky.

You didn’t peep my 44 magnum I was waving around here?

Ctex- it’s a valid point. As my uncle points out: at some level GD is the yin to Mack’s yang and whatever his play calling defiences, he provides stability and success that is not obvious always to the outside observer.

At the risk of drifting into retarded metaphor: Davis is to Mack as Longstreet was to Lee, whatever his failings, he brings something to the leader that is, at some level, irreplaceable.

Great post and interesting read. A simple thank you to you as well!

Mack Brown’s winning percentage at Texas is not the historical best. He ranks behind 7 previous coaches plus the not-officially-coached games at the program’s inception. He is thus number 8 or 9, depending on how one counts.

He’s not counting the coaches from the period when Longhorn football was basically in the “Rec Sports” department, a slight upgrade from intra-murals.

If you consider the televised ncaa championships as a benchmark, I’d imagine the BCS game and march madness final are the top two. Can anything else be #3 but the CWS championship series in omaha? By that standard, I’d say that our big 3 is also the nation’s big 3.

oops, posted to the wrong page

TTR, he is the ONLY coach since Mackovic. Of course he is the best.

I can make a hat, a brooch, or a teradactyl.

Mack is a blessing. Can you imagine being USCfan right now, after PC runs an outlaw program and leaves town one step ahead of the NCAA? Oh and then they hire that… whatever he is. They’re about to become Nebraska under Callahan.

1997 was a dark, dark year.

He wins close games, he wins big games, and he wins all the games he SHOULD. No USC-style meltdowns against inferior competition and I think it’s due to the inspiration of the Texas players.

He’s set up a recruiting pipeline ensuring a talent advantage against all teams except at the highest level.

He’s set up a donation pipeline creating the wealthiest program in the country.

Now he can’t win a National Championship all by himself, but he keeps the team in position EVERY year, to where if they have a star or some other X-Factor, that’s all it takes to bring them to the highest level.

Play to be consistently good, and eventually with some luck, you’ll catch a break and come up great.

All around, I’d vote him as the best coach in the country and if he wrote a book, I’d read it. The guy has entrenched a system of success in this program that should be studied and emulated in ANY field, not just football. If Muschamp is smart, that’s exactly what he’s doing right now.

The guys who planted the flag on Iwo Jima were not commanders.

This was a good one, glad to see it again.

I’ve always thought for the last couple of years why don’t we just go ahead and pay Muschamp around 2 million a year until he’s ready to take over. Our program has more money than God – it’s a drop in the bucket. Who cares what the other assistants would think – Muschamp is worth every penny.

VY played a lot in 2003. Also, take out the Chris Simms era and you can make a point that way also. Mack Browns team have improved everywhere he’s been consistently. If VY never played at UT or Muschamp was never hired I betcha Mack finds a way to make UT a top 5 national program anyway. Also, how many Super Bowls did Tom Landry win without Staubach? Walsh w/o Montana? Shula without Griese?Stoops without John Blake’s players? Remember, only Colt Mccoy injuries kept UT from big 12 titles in 2006 and 07. Mack Brown’s the best in the biz.

To Smart O’s. Going a career 5-0 vs Texas school for the deaf and various garage teams in town doesnt make you more winning than Mack. LOL

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