Mark Richt, Les Miles, And What It Means To Us

7. Recruiting. WM knows you gotta have the athletes to win it all. UT has a lockdown on one of the two or three most fertile recruiting grounds in the country. The others compete for players with the rest of the SEC. (This is probably a subpoint of your # 3 but deserves mention.)

I don’t disagree, but LSU owns their state completely. The pressure on La kids to stay in-state is like nothing else. Similarly, Muschamp would pants all comers in East Texas. And on a per capita basis Louisiana and Georgia high school talent is every bit as good as ours, if not better. Whenever I’ve watched Georgia high school film, I’m consistently impressed.
 
But you’re right – it’s all a subset of #3.

“The only thing that I can tell you is that I am relatively honest and somewhat deceptive.”

(http://www.thequotablelesmiles.com/les42.php)

That quote generator isn’t doing much for my productivity. Les is certainly one of a kind.

Mack in 58, making $5 million a year, and is sitting an insane amount of upcoming talent. Lots of coaches have one national title, and I’d assume the chance to add a couple more over the next 5-7 years has to influence him. It’s not much of stretch to think he might Jay Leno Muschamp.

So yah, I’m a little worried about the Georgia job.

Good thoughts.

I’m actually sitting in a conference room in downtown Atlanta as I type. So interestingly enough I’ve been able to talk to some hardcore Georgia alums.

I was relieved to find out that when I broach this topic with typical ‘Dawg fan I get the sense that Richt really isn’t in as much jeapordy as we might suspect. These folks aren’t win at all costs Bama fans, they actually factor in the good guy component it seems. I’ve had a couple Georgia folks give me their thoughts on Richt ending them with some sort of “good human being” comment.

Anyway, after this trip I feel a bit better about Richt riding out this storm. Plus, I didn’t know they just threw $750K at the Dallas Cowboy’s coach. It’ll take some pretty horrific seasons for that type of coin to be viewed as a sunk cost. Oh, and Atlanta, for the most part, is going through some major financial issues. Not a lot of “Coaching change” disposable income to be spared considering banks are failing on a daily basis in this area.

Based on that, I think they’ll roll with Mark for a while.

I figure that a timeline is already set for the handover, but am unsure that Mack takes over as AD – he has probably listened to Royal on this issue (at least I would have).

I also agree with your take on the money, and don’t believe it will be an issue for Muschamp.

One thing that I’d point out – Muschamp has a hell of a lot of fun on the sidelines…is he ready to give that up to consider both sides of the ball during the game?

I honestly don’t know much about the AD at LSU or Georgia, but I have to think Muschamp likes the idea of either having Dodds or Brown as his AD. Dodds is about as good as it gets, and he doesn’t seem to get in the coach’s way. I hope Mack would be the same, but who knows.

Oh, and UT_06 is going to shit his pants when he reads this thread…

As Jimbo Fisher may have recently discovered, if Mack does decide to stay a bit too long that could seriously effect momentum of the program it might also cast Muschamp in a less favorable light with both the fan base and future recruits.

I’m sure Muschamp is well aware of what happened at FSU. The situations aren’t completely analogous, Texas is a better job and Bobby Bowden is clearly senile, but all it would take is two years of 8-4 and Muschamp would be in a very different situation than he is right now.

He has to consider major jobs like Georgia and LSU.

Between LSU and Georgia if Georgia opens up I’m very worried. Unless Georgia decides they need to bring back a former alum with alot of experience coaching the o-line. That could work out.

Georgia is where he went to school. Who knows how much that means to him? Maybe he loved it, maybe he hated it.

The bigger issue to me is that at LSU he would have to recruit some against one Mack Brown. He isn’t going to want to fight that battle.

I see Georgia as the biggest threat to upending our smooth transition from elite to elite. Georgia opens and I get nervous. Muschamp leaves and I curl up and cry.

I read those pieces earlier today and had two quick conclusions. First I can see a scenario developing where Miles replaces Dick Rod at the end of the season. Both are on the rocks and I personally think Miles would bolt to Michigan in two seconds if given the chance. Second I thought that if Georgia is dumb enough to fire Richt that they would go hard after Muschamp.

I didn’t think about Muschamp potentially going to LSU until I read this. Based on what you laid out I don’t see him taking that job. If he is okay with 1 & 4 then the wife tips the scales with 2. No woman in her right mind would want to leave that situation in Austin for Red Stick. Georgia is another matter entirely. He is an alum and that is home which I would have to consider that to be a very significant factor 7. I think that job would be very difficult for him to turn down.

“And on a per capita basis Louisiana and Georgia high school talent is every bit as good as ours, if not better.”

‘Per capita basis’ being the operative phrase. Population of Texas = 25mm. Georgia = 10mm. LA = 4.5mm.

Personally (meaning not based on anything other than what my stupid mind believes), I just don’t see Muschamp being the type of guy to say one thing and do another. This seems to be a pervasive action of many of today’s college football coaches (Petrino, Rodriguez, Saban, Kiffin, the list goes on). Muschamp, along with Mack, have done nothing to show that they possess any part of this douchebag attitude. Because of this, there is no reason for me to believe that Muschamp will rescind his statement of planning to coach here in the future. Now, if he had a history of shitting on other school’s ADs and fanbases, then I would think that him leaving for UGA or LSU could be over a 50% chance. However, I unfortunately trust people way too often, so I just can’t believe that Muschamp would leave Texas, even with all the mess going on with conference realignment and the SEC domination of recent national championships.

Georgia fans are a little tired of the missionary position. A revamped Kama Sutra playbook would do wonders.

Nice.

Would anyone still be nervous if Georgia opens up a year or two after Muschamp takes over at Texas?

ya im certainly worried Muschamp might leave. I really dont know how soon Mack wants to retire. so that time thing is HUGE. definitely #1.
I hope to God that Mr. Muschamp stays though. as long as possible.

and someone alluded to Muschamp maybe preferring to stay as a DC now rather than a HC. I am a young HS football coach, and right now i would much rather be an OC (im an offense guy) than a HC. theres different joys you get out of being a coordinator, and some people just like being coordinators. More fun, Less stress (see Norm Chow, Monte Kiffin, John Baxter)

so i dont know. But Muschamp is a boss and i want him on this staff forever.

o and that les miles quote generator is oodles of fun.

My fave:

“I don’t know that I’ll forget that memory.”

“But warm, like the remnant heat from a slave boy’s buttocks used to toast up the Senatorial shitters in ancient Ephesus.”

Good God.

I enjoyed this tidbit:

But yeah, if UGA calls, he leaves. Georgia has and can again be the real deal, not the pretender that LSU has always been. The right coach can win UGA a legit nat’l title, not a back in on the SEC Free Pass.

I don’t think Muschamp would leave Texas to start over at Georgia if he is the head coach, that seems like a backward move pretty much anyway you look at it other than the alumni angle.

Georgia’s a good job for sure, but its not Texas. More competitive conference, smaller recruiting base, less recent success. He would have to build a staff, rebuild recruiting ties in a new geographic area, and build a relationship with a new athletic director.

Texas is a known commodity, and it may very well be the best one in the country.

Now that I think about it, Georgia needs to win the SEC this year

Go DAWGS!

I can never fault a guy for leaving to coach in his home state or for his alma mater. In this case Georgia is both, so I wouldn’t be surprised Georgia was the one school he might have told Mack/Dodds that he’d listen to if it came open.

A worthy candidate from the Les:

“Those guys in the game and those guys not in the game really were all in the same direction.”

He’s been watching Flomax commercials.

uthookem – the article picture was fine, so no pants shitting. Still need about 3-4 more articles to bump that damn pig though.

As far as point 3 goes, there is another side to the “bird in hand, 2 in bush” coin (that is a bit dependant on point 1). We have Mack Brown. Who would trade Brown for anyone? If the choice tomorrow is Brown or Muschamp, I know who I choose, especially if Brown feels like he has 5-10 more years. I hope that no situation comes up in which the AD, president, Brown, fans or anyone feels like there is a need to transition Brown out of HC sooner than he wants to go — assuming that he is not, in a very public light, sending the program down the toilet similar to what happend with Bowden.

I don’t think he’d take the LSU job and I’m not as worried Georgia will fire Richt this season. I’ll be a little concerned the following year if the Dawgs go 7-5 though.

Is Florida a concern if Meyer retires? I mean really retires.

UT06

Were you humped by a pig in an unpleasing way as a child?

Just curious.

While Georgia is likely the only school that could lure away Muschamp, he still has a better situation at Texas and reminds people of that often, alma mater be damned. His favorite joke at booster gatherings:

The only thing we had to do at Georgia to get a degree was demonstrate the ability to put a tractor in reverse.

I have spent a lot of time in Athens over the years and I would move there in a heartbeat for the right job. Athens is Austin before steroids.

Oh, and Atlanta, for the most part, is going through some major financial issues. Not a lot of "Coaching change" disposable income to be spared considering banks are failing on a daily basis in this area.

Dude, Georgia (and Vandrbilt for that matter) could dip into the SEC TV money pit and pay off Richt today. That is one of the offshoots of the SEC/ABC-ESPN contract — any of those schools can decide they have made a mistake and clear the books at a moment’s notice.

Black Population

Texas: 3 million
Georgia: 3 million
Louisiana 1.4 million

BTW:

“I feel very grateful that I have a job that in our society people would allow me to go over there and represent what is a very common thought here, and that is ‘Thanks.’”

Didn’t Muschamp really consider bolting for Tennessee, but fell out of favor because they didn’t want to get Kiffin’d, again?

If Mack is the coach in 2012, and the Georgia job is open, he’s gone, imo. Which really sucks, because while I believe we have a good chance to win it next year, I think we look great in 2012.

“And the SEC jobs are both more forgiving than our pious, nitpicking fan base”

Is this clearly the case for LSU? While I wouldn’t describe them as pious, my impression is their fans are pretty demanding and have expectations as unrealistic as any other rabid fan base (hence a coach just a couple of seasons removed from an NC is on the hot seat)

I like Coach Boom, but I’d be perfectly happy with another ten years of Mack. It seems like the man is just hitting his stride.

He started hitting his stride when Boom got here, quite obviously.

Yeah, then there’s that. It feels like Mack could win 11 games a year in his sleep until he’s 75.
Of course, Muschamp has had a lot to do with our most recent resurgence.

“Would anyone still be nervous if Georgia opens up a year or two after Muschamp takes over at Texas?”

No. But if Geogia opens up and there is no timeline in place, I think Muschamp heads out. If there is a timeline in place and it’s just a one-year wait, I would think he would wait a year (but not longer).

While Georgia and Louisiana may be smaller states with equvialent or greater talent per capita, they also have much less in state competition for recruits. Recruiting wise I think this is a push at best.

There was an editorial change in the following line.

"But warm, like the remnant heat from a slave boy’s buttocks used to toast up the Senatorial shitters in ancient Ephesus."

Originally read,

"But warm, like the remnant heat from a slave boy’s buttocks used to toast up the Imperial shitters in Chez Ripley."

“If Mack is the coach in 2012, and the Georgia job is open, he’s gone, imo. Which really sucks, because while I believe we have a good chance to win it next year, I think we look great in 2012.”

You don’t think Will would be prescient enough to see that run at 2012 himself? A lot of people said before the NC game this year that if Mack wins this, there’s a high chance he’d leave. I’d leave on a high note too – and I feel more confident that if Mr. Muschamp had an inkling that 2012 was a NC-winning year, PLUS the year that Mr. Brown goes out on top, he’d stick around to take over with a lot of A+ talent.

Technically, Mack started really hitting his stride when Vince got here.

How did we get this far into the Texas/LSU/Georgia conversation without Jimmy Sexton’s name coming up?

“While Georgia and Louisiana may be smaller states with equvialent or greater talent per capita, they also have much less in state competition for recruits. Recruiting wise I think this is a push at best.”

Really? There may be a lot of schools recruiting Texas, but we’re talking about top talent. Lately we’re getting everyone we wants, and it seems like the top Georgia talent is going to Florida, Bama, Florida St, Miami, SC, you name it. In other words, whereas we get the top talent in TX, a lot of the top talent in Georgia leaves. Just my impression of whats happening though.

Not that anyone should care what I think. I’m just a common bloke. But I must say this- Muschamp is all about Texas. Things are done a little differently in Texas and he embodies that independant mind. I would like him to stay and coach in Texas. I also know for people to do their best they have to lead the kind of life they are most comfortable with.

Now that I think about it, Georgia needs to win the SEC this year

preferably by beating LSU in the conference championship game…

This stride hitting thing is interesting. Two separate strides. Two interesting personalities added to the mix.

Really? There may be a lot of schools recruiting Texas, but we’re talking about top talent. Lately we’re getting everyone we wants, and it seems like the top Georgia talent is going to Florida, Bama, Florida St, Miami, SC, you name it. In other words, whereas we get the top talent in TX, a lot of the top talent in Georgia leaves.

UGA faces heavier competition for in-state recruits, no doubt. But they’ve still got home state advantage. If Muschamp were to go to UGA, re-invigorating the program and beating Florida more than once a decade, you’d start to see a lot more Georgia recruits staying home. The Texas example reinforces that. Top Texas recruits are staying home because we’re kicking ass right now. If we started to struggle, you’d see a lot more elite recruits going to OU or the SEC. But the top recruits will stay home more often than not if the home program is doing very well. Plus UGA’s location and position in the SEC makes it very easy for them to dip into the Carolinas and Florida for recruits to supplement their class. It’s easily a top-10 recruiting base.

LSU’s recruiting base is even better. Last time I checked, the state of Louisiana had the sixth most current NFL players (after CA, FL, TX, GA, and OH). It’s actually even better than that because they face very little competition for these recruits; they’ve probably got the best home-state advantage in recruiting of any school. They can then very easily cherry-pick east Texas, at worst picking up a couple of solid four-stars that UT didn’t have room for, and at best landing super blue-chips like Shepard and Loston. Top it off with the ability to go east to land quality recruits (like Patrick Johnson) and LSU is a borderline top-5 job.

If I were Muschamp (and not a UT alumni) I’d leave for either school, unless I was the current head coach at Texas.

Regarding his wife, I don’t think that Muschamp is that much of a beta male. If Will wants to move to Baton Rouge then the Muschamps are moving to Baton Rouge. The wife will be happy because Will is happy. And seriously, what woman is going to insist that her husband turn down a 300% raise?

Murphybed-I too am comfortable with creating fake profiles of dead people on facebook. Muschamp is far from dead, however. ColoradoAg- you may find Frontline’s expose on the Bacha Bazi boys of Afghanistan quite interesting.

Yes. I desperately want to snark on this, but your summary is nearly perfect. I would have gone with a nubile Papal chamber pot warmer, buts that’s just how I roll.

Muschamp getting near the point where Mack has nothing left to teach him. If Georgia offered, he should take the job. I would.

“I like Coach Boom, but I’d be perfectly happy with another ten years of Mack. It seems like the man is just hitting his stride.”

It’s no coincidence to me that Mack began “hitting his stride” roughly two years ago, about the same time Will Muschamp came to Austin. When I think back to the 2007 season and how I felt about the direction of the program back then…and then compare it to how I feel about it today…there’s a huge difference that I think has more to do with Will’s influence than any other factor.

Mack has always been one who learns from his mistakes, refines his approach and evolves – that’s one of his best attributes. He’s self-reflective, honest with himself and, ultimately, a great problem-solver. That said, he’s getting a little too much credit from the fanbase for the huge jump in the trajectory of the program in Years 11 and 12 of his tenure at Texas…and Will’s not getting quite enough, IMO.

I love Mack as much as anybody, but behind every great CEO there’s a great COO and Mack hired the absolute best COO in the business in Will Muschamp. Mack’s weaknesses are Will’s strengths and his being there clearly makes Mack better and more effective at what he does. Together, they’re the best coaching tandem in the country. But right now we have the best of both worlds, and I think it’s terribly naive to expect you can just remove Will from the equation and Mack will just keep things running at the extraordinarily high level they are now, by himself.

My personal belief is we caught lightening in a bottle with WM, and that he’s the surest bet on a future hall of fame coach there is at his age. That’s not to take anything away from Mack – he already is a hall of fame coach. But if I had to choose right now just one or the other (Will starting his career as a head coach without Mack, or Mack winding his down without Will), I think the right trade is taking Will.

“Runaway” by “Loleatta Holloway” comes to mind. Muschamp-don’t do it! Stay!

Kirby Smart?

The VY era does not equate to Mack hitting his stride. Nobody has ever hit their stride while losing to K-State twice, and Aggie twice.

We had two underachieving years in a row. We were headed for more of the same in ’08. Muschamp. End story.

Good to see bigdukesix and The General back on the same day. Now, if we could just get Tim on here to complete the triumvirate.

WM’s over-the-top approach to coaching right now works extremely well with kids — but I’m not sure about it as a CEO with assistant coaches. I’m not saying he doesn’t have both skill sets, only that we see one of them in abundance and assume the other.

Great HCs at top programs usually spend some time as HCs at other schools first. I’m sure examples proving me wrong exist, but I can’t think of any off the top of my head.

This stride began after Aggie pansted us, again. Mack re-evaluated, we stomped Arizona St., and then Mack continued with this new attitude and hired Muschamp.
I don’t think you can separate the two,ie: give credit to one and not the other regarding this stride.

2 more points on UGA:

- They just hired Todd Grantham to be DC. They’re paying him $750K. That’s the 3rd highest coordinator salary in the NCAA’s and the most UGA has ever paid a coordinator. Grantham will transition UGA to a base 3-4, which will take time. All those factors make it unlikely that 2010-2011 is make-or-break year for Richt. Pivotal? Yes.

- If the above is correct, then Derek Dooley’s first 2 seasons at Tennessee really merit a close look. If Dooley is successful, then he almost certainly becomes the first choice of the school & alum.

Those two excellent points are providing me a sense of relief. Thank you for making them.

Now, make some great points concerning LSU and Lies Miles, please.

“If Mack is the coach in 2012, and the Georgia job is open, he’s gone, imo. Which really sucks, because while I believe we have a good chance to win it next year, I think we look great in 2012.”

Just read on ESPN that Texas appears to be working with Dodds on a contract extension…

Not sure if that is smoke screen…

It is only in the last few years that we are achieving a virtual clean sweep in recruiting. The cupboard is very, very full. Bad to leave that many athletes.

We are already doing two things Muschamp would have done as top man:

1. Installing a pro-style offense. (I know previous failure to run the ball in big games was a big factor as well)
2. Going just a bit more out of state for recruits, gradually.

That plus we can and probably will pay the man whatever he needs.

What worries me is that he will make Mack so much of a legend that he will be hard to follow, whereas following Miles would not seem to daunt. Following a record of mediocrity at Georgia would also be less stressful. But mediocrity usually means bare cupboards and the uncertain prospect of rebuilding a declining program. Texas is more like Switzer being handed the Cowboys.

meh. i don’t think he wants the pressure of the SEC each year. Anyway, Texas has now become its own mechanism. Recruiting is on cruise. There’s not as many threats in our conference. It’s the richest school in the solar system. Austin rocks. No worries, amigos.

I don’t think he’d say no to Georgia. And I certainly wouldn’t blame him.

I hope that rumors I heard last year are true, and Mack intends to take a final shot at another national title with Gilbert before bowing out gracefully. I think if we’d won it all this year then that might have been it.

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