Realignment Winners Losers The Texas Trinity

I’m just hyper-cynical, but I don’t buy the notion that a move to the Pac-16 really would have changed anything. Everything — and not just athletics — is about hyper-monetization. We live in U.S., Inc. And I’m just too cynical to buy the notion that we missed out on real change.

But that’s me. This was exceptionally well-written, as always.

I think you would see real change playing USC in the Coliseum or UW in Seattle on a September day vs. Iowa State in freezing rain or taking two flights on prop planes and driving two hours in a rental car to get to Manhattan, KS.
 
Of course it was about monetization. Is that all our program is about?
 
How many ski boats can we ski behind at once, Mr Gekko?
 
What change are you not seeing, exactly? Better road venues, better academic mix, more interesting match-ups, a league full of California and Texas athletes.

When they were new, even trips to Lincoln and Stillwater were fun.

What I’m saying is that every move under consideration was about hyper-monetization. The play we made was a very bold play to go for truly filthy lucre, and I share a lot of your disgust.

My point is merely that they’re all disgusting plays, and to the extent you accept that premise, making the bold, long-term play for filthy lucre isn’t hard to rationalize. It might even prove the right move.

This is the way I keep my own sanity, by the way. By trying to accept how gross the whole college athletics business has gotten. I don’t see that as changing with our move to the Pac-10, and I’m trying to remain hopeful that long-term this all leads to an undermining of at least some of the corporate interests to which the sport is beholden. Better Longhorn, Inc. than ESPN, Inc.

It’s all pretty lousy, though. But that’s the world we live in now. Corporate interests above all.

Very good synopsis. I look forward to your further discussion on the A&M angle.

I feel rather empty for the entire experience – I was genuinely hopeful of a Pac 16 for many of the reasons that you laid out. Logic tells me that another opportunity will come, but we’re left with a lesser product (somewhat like what we’ve criticized the Big 10 for being athletically) for the near future.

Ultimately, it’s another example of how Longhorns, Inc. is driving the decisions – and generally for its own purposes (i.e. money) with little regard for anything else.

Since when did the share holders really count or have any significant influence in any really big corporation?

Great post. You hit the nail on the head.

If Longhorns Inc. can establish an excellent network and get us to new conference within a few years this may not be so bad.

If not….what a catastrophic whiff.

A-M-E-N, Pope Scipio!

I don’t disagree with your points, Scipio, and if I thought this was the end game, then I would really be upset. However, I think it’s just an uncomfortable stopping point in order to get everything we want. And I do mean everything. Thus, I can’t say it really bothers me at all. I believe that it’s all part of a brilliant master plan, which is based on nothing more than Bellmont’s recent track record. Maybe I’m being hopelessly optimistic.

We weren’t willing to sacrifice the Longhorn Network, so in the interim, we settle for a weak conference alignment. It’s that stubbornness that makes us great and also penalizes us—but only for now.

That was a masterpiece. Tears of laughter re:Plonsky.

The “right” thing to do by the fans would be to kick Baylor and ISU out of the conference, as opposed to all of the nonsense of the past month.

As it stands – and I am no Dodds fan – I agree w/this decision. To some extent you have to take Mack Brown’s comments at face value. Clearly this move is to his liking. He’s the one who brought us back to prominence, and now everything is set up exactly the way he wants it, SOS be damned, shitty travel destinations notwithstanding.

To bring it all to a head, if Longhorns Inc. doesn’t deliver at least one MNC to us fans over the next five years, then we(the fans) will indeed lament this deal.

Thanks, Scipio. Very nicely done, as always.

“We punted. Don’t worry. Its not over. We’ll be discussing this again when we get our ball(s) back.”

Should have read: “When we get the Longhorn Network up and running and a viable part of every cable sports package.”

Then we go wherever the fuck we want to go.

1. What makes you think the arguments/claims w/ little logical value are coming from the Top 10% kids? My career at UT predated the Top 10% law. I can tell you I encountered many a moron on the 40 Acres. No, they weren’t varsity athletes. And no, they weren’t visiting Aggies either.

2. I used to work at research university. I can tell you that the scientists would collaborate w/ people they either read about in peer-reviewed journals or met at some conference. I seriously doubt athletic conference affiliation is a factor in said collaborations.

3. You’re right about Plonsky’s bunch. However, the post-season was very unkind to the Burnt Orange this year.

4. NU & Osborne in particular can go F themselves. The whole idea that they have “classy fans” is a damn myth. The venom & lies they spewed forth over this whole conference realignment process has made me wish that they suffer losing season upon losing season from here to eternity.

NU can get their fill of partial qualifiers now. Hope it was worth it stabbing your old conference mates in the back.

No one harbors piss & vinegar like Tom Osborne. Sore loser.

5. Aggies are of great entertainment value. They’re the gift that keeps on giving.

6. Even though I wasn’t sold on the Pac-Whatever idea, it’s pointless to be crying over spilled milk. What’s done is done. Who knows – perhaps the decision to stay in the Big 12-2 might be more beneficial to UT. And, it’s not as if the doors to other conferences are closed forever (although UT’s insistence on its own TV network won’t make us any friends).

Newy -
 
Except the conferences with their own conference networks more valuable than ours. If the Pac 10 follows through with their plans, you’re “anywhere we want to go” becomes the SEC and Big 12-2.

The Pac 10 has a network? I must have missed that announcement. I thought they had an ABC/Fox Sports deal like the Big 12.

Either way, I may not fully grasp how this is good for the fans or the quality of games we play but I know DD and he did not make a decision to simply walk away from money. At worst he kept the situation tolerable until we can turn our network on.

Texas is the fat guy getting ready for his wedding to a hot piece of ass that will complete his life and satisfy him in every way possible for the rest of his natural life.

This deal is just the fat guy going on Atkins and grapefruit juice to lose a quick 30 lbs so he can squeeze his fat ass into a tux and not look like an orca in his wedding photos.

Nice piece, Scip.

From someone who has worked with the lovely Ms. Plonsky, she can go fuck herself.

No, I wrote that the Pac 10 plans to do a network.

Ah, my bad.

In terms of scheduling, we are already committed to play 1 BCS OOC game for like 15 years or something through various home and home’s. We also will play 1 less OOC game do to the 9 game regular season.

So one directional Texas/Louisiana school gets replaced with Iowa State/Kansas/Missouri every year, right? That’s an upgrade to our current scheduling which last year was a joke and still comfortably landed us in the MNC.

Am I missing something? Is it the loss of the title game which might hurt us in the BCS?

yes, we could have flourished academically under that generous pac umbrella.

alack and alas. the arizona effect could have been ours.

Good stuff, I’m not a big fan of major realignment, but I understand where you’re coming from as a Texas alum and fan. It makes a lot of sense from an academic stand point.

From the standpoint of playing boring games…how about not scheduling these teams: Louisiana Monroe, Wyoming, UTEP, UCF, Florida Atlantic, Arkansas State, North Texas, Sam Houston, Louisiana Lafayette, Tulane, New Mexico State.

Can Texas afford to go the next decade with only one premier home and home series out of conference like they did in the last?

The current Nebraska roster has 26 Texans and only 13 Californians. Leaving the Big 12 will hurt NU recruiting. Rivals lists NU recruiting rankings as 22, 28, and 30 for the last 3 years so NU was already not doing that great at recruiting. NU had a soft schedule in the Big 12 North, so moving to the Big 10 probably does not make it easier for NU to win.

The prospect of merging with the PAC 10 was exciting but I get UT’s decision. UT wants its TV network, wants to control the conference, wants the conference to dominate our geographical area, does not want the conference spread out over three time zones, wants a relatively easy path to the MNC, and wants to control travel times/expenses (especially for minor sports). UT won an MNC in 2005 and played in the last MNC, That success reduces the motivation to make radical changes.

Your feelings toward NU are getting sentimental and vaseline-lensy like a Oui pictorial.

Great post, really good because it had me rethinking my position(s).

The thing I like about Longhorn Inc. is that it’s going to almost guarantee good football. When someone comes calling for our coach in waiting, we can cut a check to cover the offer and add a 20% vig for having to coach alongside Greg Davis.

During our 20 year walk through the wilderness we longed for in-state exposure while Tamu was the cool kid and the rest of the nation raided our talent. The Longhorn Network ensures we’ll enjoy at least a regional following like the 90’s Braves with TBS or the Cubs.

When Mack needs bigger plasmas complete with Xboxes and surround sound in the lockerroom to help recruit the next VY, this deal ensures we’ll pay cash with enough left over to go to the strip club.

Contrast that with the time the University of Texas, or the academic arm was charged with running the company, a time when we lost to Rice, and that’s why I’m happy with this deal.

As long as it’s just a step towards your grand vision, I think everyone’s going to be satisfied at some point.

True brilliance. You never cease to amaze. The Plonsky section left me slack-jawed.

Your reference to a weakened schedule, however, rekindles an argument I had earlier today. If you take any reasonable metric of team strength and use it to find a median in the Big XII, CU would be significantly below the line and NU about the same unit level above. In my estimation they cancel each other out. If you agree with that premise, the only strength of schedule hit we take is not having a league championship game on the resume. Is that enough to make a difference? Maybe. Is it enough of a difference to overcome the possibilty of getting tripped up in the championship game on the way to a national title game. Maybe, maybe not. I just don’t buy the suddenly weakened schedule argument many are throwing out.

To maintain one’s sanity after this outcome, one has to view this as a stopgap to allow the network Dodd’s wants so badly to develop before moving into an arrangement that makes more sense given where most believe college football is heading. For the sake of my sanity that’s the view I’m taking. I’m okay with the outcome for now, particularly in light of what were developing politcal currents and the specter of SEC cash and street agents running rampant through our state.

It will take awhile, however, to adjust to losing my dreams of some really fulfilling away game galas.

It’s a hell of a basketball conference though. Probably six tournament teams next season out of the remaining ten.

For the life of me, I can’t figure out why academic partnerships are forged through athletic conference affiliations, particularly those across state lines, but they are.

YES! Seems really dumb.

It’s been reported that Utah will accept an invite to the Pac 10 in the next 48 hours. This creates quite a problem when we all 5 teams should have been on the same page. This ensures a break up in some form or fashion in the future which is a shame. This is especially complicated because we know OU and Okie state will be tied at the hip due to Oklahoma politics. I don’t ever want to lose the OU game in any form or fashion and anyone who doesn’t mind to see it changed is not a true fan of either school or CFB in general.

I think Scipio’s point, Kafka, is that Nebraska doesn’t need Texas to recruit and they will be just fine if not better in their new home. They were also one of the few programs back then that was the exception to the recruiting rankings equals great teams theory. Do you know how many Texans were on the 1995 NC Husker team? A grand total of 7. They recruit the beef from Nebraska and the rest of the midwest and recruit athletes from NJ, Penn, Fl, and CA. The affiliation with the Big 10 will help them reconnect with their roots.

We are going to need more than just a BCS conference team on our schedule. We will have to schedule a powerful name brand which would be cool if they did though I remain skeptical. The truth is our 2008 schedule cost us a chance to play for the National Title. Nobody wants to talk about that. To do so would be to ask some serious questions to those decision makers namely the do no wrong Dodds and Brown. Let’s break it down like this. Florida OOC schedule consisted of Miami, Florida State, Hawaii, and the Citadel plus the SEC. OU played TCU, Cincy, Wash, and Chattanooga. Texas played Arkansas, Rice, UTEP, and Florida Atlantic.

Scipio,

That was fantastic. Thanks for plainly illustrating the reasons why some of us are pissed off about this in a way that entertained and, hell, almost provided some level of comfort. Maybe we’ll have this chance again a few years down the line. Or maybe we should have just gotten it right the first time.

As said earlier, this was a masterpiece…the only thing missing was a few jokes about the “Power Brokers” scenario proposed by Andy Katz.

Tremendous, as always.

This just completely nails it

A few other points:
1. There’s no strong Frank Erwin-type figure on the BOR. No vision. No leadership. The current chairman is new, a female attorney from Corpus. She may be a fanatical football fan, I do not know. But I will speculate this BOR did not take an nearly an active role in this process as others would have.
2. Mack has become a dominant figure at UT, and is tight with the President. This arrangement smells like Mack and is his wet dream of a conference. He’s now, finally, Florida State.
3. Keep at it. At some point, college football ( a sport) designed to be played (for entertainment) in front of an audience (fans) became a big cigar, green eyeshade, fuck the fans and take their money enterprise. Deloss is really good at running that enterprise.

Great read. While I guess I am disappointed that the PAC-16 thing didn’t happen (I live out West and would look forward to the Horns coming out to Oregon and Washington), the football fan in me wants UT in the SEC.

What I really want to know is how much control the University, Dodds and Powers really had over the ultimate decision. How much political pressure was applied? The University of Texas is obviously very powerful but they do not exist in a vacuum and I am not sure that they could have unilaterally decided to go to the PAC-16- particularly with the Aggies not on board. I also think that there must have been at least some concern that Texas A+M going to the SEC could negatively impact recruiting. The Longhorns have the best recruiting situation in the country right now and may have been worried about jeopardizing it. I guess what I am getting at is that I am not sure this was really a financial decision at all, but a way of saving face due to political realities and a desire to preserve our recruiting hegemony.I would think that folks like Dodds or Powers would be too proud to say that they turned down the Pac-10 because the “state legislature won’t let us” or “because we want to keep the Aggies from going to the SEC.” Instead they crow about how much money we are going to make, looking out for student athletes…

Those of us who were on campus in the 80s know this current feeling of malaise all too well. I haven’t felt like “nothing more than a walking SSN” since I walked off campus, yet right now, I feel like nothing more than a walking “patron” number.

Thanks, Scip, for pointing out the eternal truth of UT fandom for my generation: we, the fans, are nothing but fuel for The Matrix, aka Longhorns, Inc. It attaches implants to our back pockets and sucks us dry while distracting us with quality athletic programming so that we don’t awake to the ugly reality. We bleed orange for a beast that has an insatiable appetite for only one thing: our money. And we gladly give it, refusing to swallow the red pill that will peel away the fantasy.

Then again, maybe if enough season ticket holders drop their seats in disgust, I could improve my location on the lower west side of DKR …

We’ve simply delayed the invasion of Japan while we finish developing Little Boy and Fat Man.

How is our scheduling any worse than anyone elses? We play one decent BCS team a year. Yes, we got fucked last year because Arkansas dropped us (although it didn’t matter as far as getting in the MNC game). Also, a lot of luck is involved. Arkansas went 4-8 in 08 when we played them after 8 and 10 wins the 2 seasons before (plus playing for the SEC title).

Also, we have UCLA and Cal (not to mention Minn) on the schedule 4 of the next 6 years.

So….

Current upcoming Big 12-2 schedule OU, Ttech, A&M, OkSU, KU, Mizzou, ISU, UCLA, Baylor
+3 non BCS non cons

How is there much difference there? Is there that much of a difference between KU/Mizzou and either of the Arizona schools? I mean shit, Arizona has been the better of the 2 with back to back 8 win seaons. ASU has won 9 games since we embarrassed them and Rudy in the Holiday bowl. Is BU worse than WSt? ISU worse than CU?

Football in the Pac 10 is not that great. Has everyone forgot that the Mtn West has been owning the Pac 10 for the last 2-3 years? They’ve got USC and someone else (Oregon the last 2 years). We’d only be playing them every 4 years though. And most likely USC is going to be down for a few years thanks to pay for play features at the university.

The Pac 16 would have been cool because it was something new (football-wise). Playing 5-7 ASU and 8-4 AU would have gotten just as boring as playing any of the schools from the north quickly.

I am dissapointed at losing the chance to help our acadmics, but I don’t think this is over. This is just another play in Leto’s 5000 year plan.

UTCS made me laugh. Thank you Ag.

I need to proofread.

The school had a chance to build academic partnerships, collaborate in research, shake down the Feds for research grants, and establish visiting professorships with academic equals and superiors like Cal, UCLA, Washington, and Stanford.

how true is this really though? I would have been much more on board with the whole Pac-10 thing if it was just a couple of teams. Once you started including Texas Tech, and the Oklahomas, it just made me wonder how Scott got the Stanford and Cal votes.

I think they just decided to lay down their own little cordon sanitaire just east of the Salton Sea… so we’d be part of the Pac-16, but always, always, always the EAST part. Perhaps I’m wrong, and they were in fact willing and eager to partner up fully with their new conference mates. Maybe they were already warming to the idea of close collaboration with their colleagues from Lubbock and Stillwater. Or maybe even just the Texas ones… but perhaps not.

I wouldn’t be averse to a Pac-whatever conference, but let’s face it, Seattle trips were not going to outnumber Stillwater trips. At the end of the day, I think this brave new Big12-lite is a temporary state, with actual timeframe still to be determined. When/If the next big round of this stuff happens, maybe we can make a move to something more attractive without our “Tech problem”…

That’s the one problem with this site, shit’s, the inability to fix your own grammatical errors. The alternative is either Orangebloods or hornfans and one automatically becomes dumber for even thinking about visiting those two sites.

UT, it is vitally important to play one traditional power from here on out. Our conference just lost one. I’m sorry Minn and Cal qualify as middle of the road BCS conf teams we should schedule anyway not traditional powers. Because Iowa State, Baylor and KU for that matter are on the schedule we should only schedule one state powder puff (Rice) Take a look at OU’s upcoming non-conf schedule and tell me as a fan you are not just a little bit jealous of them. How can one not see the correlation between us being left out in 08 and our schedule vs. others in the discussion for that game.

Why do we as a fanbase accept this? We pay good money to watch our football team. All I hear from our fanbase is “We are the Joneses” or “We are Texas”. Well let’s act like it and adopt the mantra of anyone, anytime, anywhere. Our current slate of away games doesn’t inspire anyone to get on plane to see them play. It’s quite sad actually. However, I’m looking forward to the trip to Lincoln in October for what has quickly become a bitter feud.

Let’s not forget USC of 2008 which was arguably the best team in the country that year and and had just as much of an argument as anyone else in staking a claim to the NC. They destroyed tOSU, ND, and Virginia in out of conference play.

Brilliant and depressing. Then you go to the heart of the whole reason we give a shit:

“We should be run as a business, but we are not a business. Maximization of profit isn’t our only endpoint. This is supposed to be fun. Seriously. Fun. And interesting. "

I like thinking about college football and all of its many aspects, but its the feeling of the amateur game that hooked me. I don’t enjoy seeing one of my favorite passions embalmed alive as the mercenary inclination replaces spirit drop by drop in the bloodstream.

A good rule for real estate and academics is to own the sorriest house in the best neighborhood. Nebraska did that in the Big 10 and this will have huge implications for the growth of that university academically. Good on them. I wish them well.
====
Nebraska won the fucking lottery. Apologies for the acrimony, but we had to take it. Because of football, NU could grow into a top 50 university. OK top 70 but still.

In the last ten years, Texas has added the population of Nebraska – nearly twice over. We’re the size of metro Austin. Understandably – you guys own the deck.

Personally, I don’t think it is about TV, partial qualifiers, Jerryworld, 11-1 votes, or any thing on the field. It was just a great opportunty.

We’d love to have you in the Big 10 if you change your mind(s). Bring A&M with ya and we’ll make it party.

I’ll buy the beer on 10/16 – if I can get tickets.

Scipio – great post as usual. A couple of thoughts here….

The quote below is great,
“The notion that they couldn’t even entertain a Pac 16 because the West Coast has people that don’t know who Robert Earl Keen is and that Blue Staters will turn their children gay revealed an incredibly insular mindset amongst their power brokers. " but what about the fact that supposedly Cal objected to Baylor’s “religious affiliation” in rejecting them. Would things have been different had the Bears been included?

It was Texas Inc that made this decision, along with getting the power brokers at OU to go along. Face it, if both Texas and OU aren’t convinced for the short term to stay in the Big 12, the rest wouldn’t be worth much.

I don’t think OU’s network will be as successful as Texas’, and within a few short years, we’ll be back at the same place – possibly with diminished influence. You’re right, Texas punted – this time.

Does anyone truly believe the Pac-16 would necessarily lead to academic collaboration with Stanford, Cal, UCLA, and Washington, much less “flourishing academically under that generous pac umbrella?”

Would we have to prove we can get along with others for the Pac-Power-4 to play with us, or could we get away with strictly associating with the Pac-Power-4? I’m talking Mean Girls + Africa.

Yes, this outcome broke my heart a bit. I feel dirty, smaller.

Can we revisit that Bill Powers and the UT Franchise piece? What is our consolation? How we look compared to … aggy? I think I’m gonna puke.

Superb analysis, ST. I was puzzled why I wasn’t buying the whole Pac-16 picture given the sterling outline you present. I know all of the Pac-10 cities well, save Pullman, and, yeah, they have 9 destination spots and 1 loser to our 1 destination spot and 9 losers. But that doesn’t sway me. Then it dawned on me. You actually care to travel to the away games and take in the amenities where you go.

I guess there are, what? 10 to 25 thousand fans keen on that, depending on the game. It’s its own culture, I guess, and I can see where venue attractiveness would be an important consideration to some. But that’s alien to me. I’m watching it on TV. If I’m going, I’m going for the game. I’ve got a favorite rental on a mountain top in Malibu 25 minutes from UCLA, but, on the whole, I’m just as cool with going to Stillwater or College Station—they’re day trips, not weekend trips.

Plus, I like Pac-10 sports. But it has a whole different feel to it from SWC/Big 12. I have a hard time seeing Texas navigating the differences much less OU or ATM.

I remain unconvinced that your average Texas fan—even those who enjoy troopng to the games—shares your preference for games played in West Coast cultural destination spots.

Let there be no doubt – Plonksy is Satan. And Satan will be running the ath dept in 3 years, tops.

If this person is driving the men’s bus then the future of our athletic department is in real trouble. Ketch and some others over at orangebloods are calling her a star. What a fucking laugh. For those in the know please share some inside info.

methinks Fevrier needs to fine tune his or her reading skills.

Sounds to me like someone is just mad cause he can’t go surfing with the Cali boys…

But in the end, this is a win, if just because we got rid of those faggot whining corn chuckers.

It was roughly 15 minutes into the press conference yesterday before Dodds opened his mouth for the first time. Powers was yielding to Plonsky. Based on the track record of our women’s program, it is worse than frightening that she could be our next AD.

You had me at vagina tigtening.

Excellent piece. The FAIL here has been angering me all week. Luckily our size will allow us another bite at the apple, but I’m particularily disheartened by the Aggies actions this week.

I’ve always believed there was a depth beyond the chants and cultish behavior; a realization that A&M is in fact a major research institution with good undergraduate academics and when push comes to shove, the silly “t.u. sucks” mindset was just something for good times at Thanksgiving. Instead I see it is not only deeply rooted, but having a similar corrosive effect to the partisanship that is tearing DC apart.

I died when I read Plonsky was going to be on the conference realignment call. She is an asshole of the first degree. Fuck Title IX too.

Scipio, I’d like to answer one of your questions, but first, here are some thoughts:

Everyone must admit, this melodrama is a pretty decent way to pass the summer dead zone (especially with recruiting almost locked up and baseball falling short). I am a bit disappointed by the “new” league’s roster, but I am comforted by a few facts. The conference schedule won’t change for at least a year or two. When it does, we can nullify the Iowa State factor by stronger non-conference scheduling. Meanwhile, we can build the Longhorn Network and get it humming. This will make us even more valuable and help ensure our eventual place in the conference of our choosing. And finally, more money will create more opportunities to be successful on the field and maintain the legacy and tradition we love (just ask Notre Dame). Many commenters have pushed the panic button too soon and need to take think long-term.

So, what’s in it for the fans? Well, for this selfish fan living in the Northeast, I welcome any chance to watch more Texas football. I can’t tell you how frustrating it is to have folks yelling at the bartender to change the channel from Texas to the Penn State/OSU/Rutgers?!?/Michigan/Notre Dame game. I buy ESPN GamePlan every year and still can’t get all the games. Maybe the PAC 16 Network would have accomplished the same thing, but I like my chances better with the Longhorn Network. And at least one of Verizon, ATT, Comcast, DirectTV will carry it. So, that’s one thing I am happy about.

“Let there be no doubt – Plonksy is Satan. And Satan will be running the ath dept in 3 years, tops.”

No she’s not and it’s silly to suggest that.

Fantastic job Scipio. I’ve had friends and relatives asking me for this but I had no doubt yours was on its way so I took my cue from Longhorns, Inc. and punted. Dithering served again!

California state government as a whole is run by twelve year olds, but the UC system is the one thing that they do very right.

Except for the layoffs, salary cuts, slashed budgets, tuition spike, and $813 million shortfall, you mean.

Now The University of Texas remains in an academic league roughly comparable to the SEC

I really, really wouldn’t go that far. The old Big 8 schools were roughly comparable to the SEC, but times have changed and Tom Osborne is mad about it.

Since you mentioned the UC system, I’ll do public schools only.

USN&WR rankings of public universities by conference as of 2010:

PAC-10:
University of California—Berkeley Berkeley, CA 1
University of California—Los Angeles Los Angeles, CA 2
University of Washington Seattle, WA 11
University of Arizona Tucson, AZ 48
Washington State University Pullman, WA 52
University of Oregon Eugene, OR 57
Arizona State University Tempe, AZ 60

Big 10:
University of Michigan—Ann Arbor Ann Arbor, MI 4
University of Illinois—Urbana-Champaign Champaign, IL 9
University of Wisconsin—Madison Madison, WI 9
Pennsylvania State University—University Park University Park, PA 15
Ohio State University—Columbus Columbus, OH 18
Purdue University—West Lafayette West Lafayette, IN 22
University of Minnesota—Twin Cities Minneapolis, MN 22
Indiana University—Bloomington Bloomington, IN 29
Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 29
University of Iowa Iowa City, IA 29

Big XII:
University of Texas—Austin Austin, TX 15
Texas A&M University—College Station College Station, TX 22
University of Colorado—Boulder Boulder, CO 34
Iowa State University Ames, IA 39
University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 43
University of Nebraska—Lincoln Lincoln, NE 43
University of Missouri Columbia, MO 48
University of Oklahoma Norman, OK 48

SEC:
University of Florida Gainesville, FL 15
University of Georgia Athens, GA 21
Auburn University Auburn University, AL 39
University of Alabama Tuscaloosa, AL 43
University of Tennessee Knoxville, TN 52
University of South Carolina—Columbia Columbia, SC 55
Louisiana State University—Baton Rouge Baton Rouge, LA 64
University of Arkansas Fayetteville, AR 64
University of Kentucky Lexington, KY 64

ACC:
University of Virginia Charlottesville, VA 2
University of North Carolina—Chapel Hill Chapel Hill, NC 5
Georgia Institute of Technology Atlanta, GA 7
University of Maryland—College Park College Park, MD 18
Clemson University Clemson, SC 22
Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 29
Miami University—Oxford Oxford, OH 34
North Carolina State University—Raleigh Raleigh, NC 39
Florida State University Tallahassee, FL 48

other:
University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA 20
Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey—New Brunswick Piscataway, NJ 26
University of Connecticut Storrs, CT 26
Ohio University Athens, OH 57
University of Utah Salt Lake City, UT 63
Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 64

The UC system has a lot of highly-ranked schools, but the PAC-10 shows well only at the top (if we count private schools, Cal comes in at 21, four spots below Rice). Below that, the drop-off is severe. Several schools aren’t even in the top 64. The Big-10 places all their schools, and places them well.

Now compare the SEC and Big XII. Several schools are judged roughly equal: Florida and Texas, amu and Georgia, Auburn and ISU. But the overall mix of ranked schools drops off in the SEC in a way it just doesn’t in the Big XII.

The Big XII’s distribution is more like the ACC than the SEC.

wait, what, since when did the good ol boy network accept bull dikes into their circles? I seriously doubt the belmont bumpkins will ok her as the athletic director over this money machine in the next few years. Then again, after yesterday’s decision, i wouldnt be fucking surprised.

I would love to hear Deloss et al pressed on the question of what the athletics department’s mission statement is. You know, piercing through the student athlete pablum he would offer and really forcing them to admit that they are run like a corporation that only cares about profit and not one whit about what the alums/fans think.

Why is that exactly? Do the key players get bonuses that are akin to stock options based on performance? How many flat screen plasmas can you have in Bellmont? What exactly do they plan to do with all the money they have?

I posted this on another thread, but thought it might be more appropriate here.

This is not the old SWC. This conference is better than that. It may kind of suck, but in actuality it is stronger than the PAC 10, especially with USC about to drop off. It is much stronger than the Big East and is stronger for now than the ACC.

We lost a team that has a well below .500 average over the last 5 years and a team whose best year in the last 5 contained the glory of a home loss to Iowa State. The conference didn’t get notably weaker and for all the pussy rubbing the Big 12 has been the 2nd best football conference over the last 10 years and I don’t even think that is debatable.

Could we have joined or formed a stronger conference? Yes. Is this conference terrible? Not in the least. Only one conference is notably better and one other is likely to be better.

“Bayville said:
June 16th, 2010 at 5:22 am

Let there be no doubt – Plonksy is Satan. And Satan will be running the ath dept in 3 years, tops."

I don’t know about three years, but I think this is inevitable, and have for a long time. I think Powers and Dodds could talk yesterday with a straight face about how committed they were to the conference over the long haul because neither one of them will be here when the big realignment finally happens.

Here’s something else that isn’t mentioned much. I believe that Baylor played a not insignifcant role in undoing the Pac-16. The only way they could save themselves was to attach themselves to Texas A&M and beg them to pressure Texas politically to stay. Baylor alum Drayton McClane is a big friend of Governor-for-Life/Aggie-in-Chief Rick Perry. Buddy Jones is arguably the most powerful lobbyist in the state. He’s also a Baylor regent. I don’t know, I just think someone may have called in some favors or just plain convinced Perry that uncoupling Texas and A&M was bad for A&M. Things sure skidded to a halt in a hurry last week, and it wasn’t the membership of the House Higher Ed Committee that had anyone scared.

As for Longhorns, Inc., I don’t know what anyone’s upset about, I am quite sure some of the new revenue will be used to implement a Stanfordesque policy of not having any advertising in the stadium.

I’m confused: Who has the vaselined ass? The fat Mexican man or the burro?

People tend to assume a Pac-16 would have combined the best of both conferences and brought out the best in the individual programs. That hasn’t been the ACC’s experience. I don’t think it would have been the case in a Pac-16.

When the ACC grew to 12, everyone crowed about a conference that could be dominant in both football and basketball, with an amazing academic profile, a slew of top media markets, and opportunities for fans to see their team play for a conference championship in December in Florida. It couldn’t miss.

What do you have now? Outside of Duke and Carolina basketball, not much. If not for some last-minute bidding between Fox and ESPN last month on the new TV deal, we’d be seeing lots of articles about ACC teams with wandering eyes and a failed expansion.

Why? Let me shift topic for a moment.

People in Alabama and Texas check the fall football schedule when scheduling a fall wedding. People in North Carolina verify the dates of the final Duke-Carolina basketball game (always a Saturday), the ACC tournament, and opening rounds of the NCAA tournament before scheduling social events in February and March.

On the flip side, at one point ten to fifteen years ago, Alabama had more former players in the NBA than any other basketball program. Mack Brown coached at UNC before he coached at Texas, with some stellar results. But that success didn’t change the basic culture in either location with respect to college sports and college sports preferences.

Same thing with the ACC’s expansion. They tried to throw some football schools into a basketball conference, assuming the basketball schools would rise to the level of the football powers and vice versa. Didn’t exactly work out that way. A couple of years ago, the ACC got 4 bids to the NCAA tournament and had 20,000 empty seats at a conference championship game in Florida in December. Casual fans resented all of the disruptions to the patterns that had become so familiar over the years in their favorite sports. Simply put, the whole thing remains a huge mess.

Let’s turn back the Pac-16 for a moment.
Los Angeles. San Francisco. Phoenix. Seattle. Sacramento. Portland, San Diego.

5 Top 20 TV markets. 2 more in the Top 30.

The Pac-10 doesn’t lack TV sets. It lacks viewers. The success of a Pac-16 depends on the assumption that Texas and Oklahoma turns those TV sets into TV viewers. Frankly, I don’t see it. If you’re not a college sports fan by the time you turn 18, you’re never going to be one.

If you talked to Mack, I am willing to bet that he made sure Dodds talked to Swofford (ACC Commissioner, former UNC AD) about what went right and what went wrong in the ACC’s expansion. A Pac-16 in my opinion runs a much higher risk of echoing the ACC experience than the synergies Scipio envisions. California and Oregon are very different than Texas and Oklahoma for a lot of very good reasons, which isn’t to say one group is better than the other.

Scipio, great stuff. Can’t wait for the A&M piece.

Not sure I buy the ACC expansion analogy. The problems the ACC is having seem more tied to the downfall of Miami and Florida State as elite football powers then anything else. And those programs’ problems are not due to playing in the ACC but are rather due to A) their own coaching problems, and to a lesser extent B) the rise of Florida as Mega-power under Urban Meyer. The ACC will be fine if and when Florida State and Miami get their act together. Now that Bowden is gone, I would expect the former to do so shortly.

Well stated, Scip. I’ll miss the more level headed UT fans.

Spider said:

I really, really wouldn’t go that far. The old Big 8 schools were roughly comparable to the SEC, but times have changed and Tom Osborne is mad about it.

Since you mentioned the UC system, I’ll do public schools only:

Big XII:
University of Texas–Austin Austin, TX 15
Texas A&M University–College Station College Station, TX 22
University of Colorado–Boulder Boulder, CO 34
Iowa State University Ames, IA 39
University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 43
University of Nebraska–Lincoln Lincoln, NE 43
University of Missouri Columbia, MO 48
University of Oklahoma Norman, OK 48

SEC:
University of Florida Gainesville, FL 15
University of Georgia Athens, GA 21
Auburn University Auburn University, AL 39
University of Alabama Tuscaloosa, AL 43
University of Tennessee Knoxville, TN 52
University of South Carolina–Columbia Columbia, SC 55
Louisiana State University–Baton Rouge Baton Rouge, LA 64
University of Arkansas Fayetteville, AR 64
University of Kentucky Lexington, KY 64

There are a few problems with listing the rankings like this. Most obviously, Nebraska and Colorado are no longer in the Big 12, so their rankings shouldn’t apply. And you ignored the Tier 3 schools in both conferences. I know you said public schools only, but that obviously is a big favor to the Big 12, since it ignores Vanderbilt v. Baylor. Correcting for the overall US New Rankings (which I know are highly flawed, but they’re the ones most commonly thrown out by almost everyone), you get the following rankings:

Big XII:
University of Texas–Austin Austin, TX 47
Texas A&M University–College Station College Station, TX 61
Baylor 80
Iowa State University Ames, IA 88
University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 96
University of Missouri Columbia, MO 102
University of Oklahoma Norman, OK 102
Kansas State UNR
Texas Tech UNR
Oklahoma State UNR

SEC:
Vanderbilt: 17
University of Florida Gainesville, FL 47
University of Georgia Athens, GA 58
Auburn University Auburn University, AL 88
University of Alabama Tuscaloosa, AL 96
University of Tennessee Knoxville, TN 106
University of South Carolina–110
Louisiana State University–Baton Rouge Baton Rouge, LA 128
University of Arkansas Fayetteville, AR 128
University of Kentucky Lexington, KY 128
Ole Miss UNR
Miss St. UNR

Lot of ways to average these numbers, but anyway shows that Scipio is exactly correct: the new Big 12 is essentially academically equal to the SEC, if not slightly worse. If you assign a ranking of 150 to the unranked schools the average ranking for the SEC is 101, for the Big 12 it is 103. If you ignore the Tier 3’s, and take just the top 7 in each conference, the average ranking for the SEC is 81, compared to 91 for the Big 12. I

If one of Texas or A&M was to join the SEC, it would clearly be academically superior to the Big 12 as it stands now with those 2 schools included. If both were to join, the SEC would be a far better academic conference than the new Big 12.

Hopefully in the next goround Longhorns, Inc will drop the nonsense academic arguments. They seem to have been just another cover for the corporation’s belief (and sadly it’s probably 100% correct) that top 5 rankings and undefeated seasons generate more revenue through ticket and merchandise sales than playing competitive entertaining games that aren’t over by halftime and jeopardize the ranking. If you’re interested in seeing the Horns play the best teams in close games during the regular season, well Dodds and Longhorns, Inc. have just told you to can go to hell. They would schedule 12 1-AA teams if it meant they could remain in the top 2 all season.

ScipioTex said:

“For the life of me, I can’t figure out why academic partnerships are forged through athletic conference affiliations, particularly those across state lines, but they are.”

This has been the biggest mystery to me from the start of this. 2 months later I still haven’t seen any reasonable explanation. I always guessed that most professors couldn’t even name what conference their school was in, or if they could, they’d have real trouble naming 2 other schools in the conference. The CIC seems like the best association of universities for research, but do the PHD’s and braniacs in charge really deny membership based on quality of a school’s football team? If a school dedicates themselves to academics and chooses not to play D1 football at all, are they automatically told they can’t join the “academic” association?

Anon — That’s been the argument for years now. That doesn’t explain what happened to the other basketball programs, or why states like North Carolina and Virginia that have combined for $200 million+ in stadium and facilities upgrades over the past 20 years can’t keep top football recruits in state.

The entire conference is one huge identity crisis right now. It wants to be tops in everything. Kudos to the notion of standards, but if and when the conference realizes its “potential,” will that justify the disruption and expenditures required to get there? We’ll see.

squirrel -
 
I guess I’m confused by your interpretation of data. Or we have different assumptions. I’m seeking out excellence. You seem interested in deriving a mean. That’s irrelevant. Partnership shares arent given out equally. We choose. And when the Pac 10 has schools that are ranked 1st and 2nd in the entire US along with Stanford, which is arguably the best school on the planet, that interests me. From that perspective, the ACC looks nothing like the Big 12. Also it demonstrates pretty much what I said – in a Pac 10 scenario Texas would be associating with 3 of the top 11 public schools in the nation, not to mention Stanford, USC.
 
This isn’t about deriving a mean – that somehow having Washington State demeans our ability to work with Stanford. It’s about joining a league where you’re not the best at something – where five schools in fact, are your peer or clear superior – and the incredibly enriching potential it has for us.
 
Pointing out that California has debt in all of its structures is fairly silly, like pointing out water is wet. I would think it’s fairly obvious given the context that I’m not suggesting we embrace California’s approach to state unions. The idea of the UC system is embracing differentiation in excellence and creating outstanding 2nd tier options like UC San Diego, UC Davis, UC-Riverside, UC-Santa Barbara. If you’re a proponent of the top 10% idiocy or feel that UTSA and UTEP are getting it done, I suppose the Texas model is well worth emulating.
 
The public options in Texas once you get past A&M and Texas are horrific. That doesn’t serve the second most populous state particularly well.
 
dave -
 
anonymous is correct.
 
The ACC analogy doesn’t hold at all, for the reasons I outlined in my original piece. When you unleash Texas recruits in your conference, that tide lifts all boats. We’re not Boston College. Jesus. I’m puzzled by people who don’t get this. It’s bizarre to me. Mizzou and Kansas stocked their teams with 2nd tier Texas recruits with the promise of television and Texas road trips and created national relevance for total football zeros. OU has built an entire model around the Texas athlete that’s yielded one of the Top 5 football programs of all time. Ask Arkansas what’s it like to lose the Texas recruiting pipeline.
 
In short, we’re not talking about fucking Maryland.
 
The ACC was derailed because FSU and Miami shot themselves in the head and Florida is their local Texas.

Bartoncreek said:

June 16th, 2010 at 8:36 am

I posted this on another thread, but thought it might be more appropriate here.

This is not the old SWC. This conference is better than that.

Really? Look at two of our often mocked former SWC brethren. Last year TCU would have been easily the second best team in the BXII (with Nebraska removed). Houston would have been 4th, at worst.

anonymous said

There are a few problems with listing the rankings like this. Most obviously, Nebraska and Colorado are no longer in the Big 12, so their rankings shouldn’t apply.

The table is for 2010, so they do apply.

And you can’t average rankings like this because the difference between first and fifth is not analogous to the difference between twentieth and twenty-fifth.

Old Time -
 
Old Time, thanks. However, I find it hard to believe you can’t detect the difference between Texas playing Ohio State in Columbus or Nebraska in Lincoln through your television set. The energy crackles through the screen like a shot of adrenaline to your sternum. You’d experience the same thing against USC, in the Rose Bowl against UCLA, in Autzen against Oregon, hell, even Sun Devil stadium is an excellent venue when Texas come to town.
 
It’s not just about the road experience. It would be lots of fun for USC to come to Austin. Right?
 
Barton Creek -
 
It is precisely the old SWC. Not the circa 1993 SWC. The old SWC. Good Arkansas, A&M & Baylor up and down, UH and SMU up and down, Rice and TCU pieces of shit etc. It’s a perfect parallel.

Houston lost to UTEP enough said. The fact that TCU was good doesn’t make the Big East, Pac 10 or ACC any stronger. In fact they would have likely won all 3 of those conferences as well as the Big 10. Point stands.

spider said:

June 16th, 2010 at 10:23 am

anonymous said

There are a few problems with listing the rankings like this. Most obviously, Nebraska and Colorado are no longer in the Big 12, so their rankings shouldn’t apply.

The table is for 2010, so they do apply.

And you can’t average rankings like this because the difference between first and fifth is not analogous to the difference between twentieth and twenty-fifth.

Agreed. That is a very bad method. My mistake. But is there any unbiased comparison there, statistically or otherwise, that says the new Big 12 is academically better than the SEC? Beyond that, is there any way to refute that the SEC + UT/A&M is not far superior academically to the new Big 12 with UT/A&M?

Longhorn, Inc won the day for sure, but it burned a lot of bridges. In playing the Pac-10, it humiliated them in front of the world. Fat chance those guys will ever listen to anything L, Inc has to say, much less get into bed with it. And the other conferences were all watching and learning. The cash value of L, Inc went up, but the liability side of the ledger did some swelling itself. It’s kinda like the good looking girl in school who winks and plays with all the boys, then screws them over. She’ll get away with it for a while, but eventually nobody but the desperate will have anything to do with her. Making friends is not the goal here but making enemies shouldn’t be so casually disregarded, not when the present victory is so inherently temporary. Karma, as they say, can be a real bitch – no matter how rich you are.

On a foundation of tissue paper.

Marshall -
 
That’s really not a concern of mine. Texas and Notre Dame are the two most desired properties in college football and nothing will change that. In a courtship, the girl is allowed to say no.

Scip, I see the parallel but I just don’t think it’s accurate. You are talking about two perennial top 5 teams in Texas/OU vs occasional top ten teams in Texas/Arkansas. Tech and OSU have become top 25 fixtures. KU, KSU and Mizzou have all made appearances in the top 5 in the last decade. Nobody in the old SWC did that save the occassional Texas/Arky appearance. I fail to see where the comparison holds, but as usual I enjoy your take.

BartonCreek -
 
Pointing out what KSU and KU were is deceiving to say the least. That’s gone. OSU is a four loss team every year that gets obliterated in its bowl game. They’ll be lucky to go .500 this year. Tech will need to prove it can weather its transition and be anything more than a perpetual 8-4. A&M is still college football’s worst underachiever.
 
What the Big 12-2 will offer is incredible inconsistency outside of Texas and OU with a consistent cycling of teams underneath them. That’s exactly what the old SWC offered. There were individual years in which UH, SMU, A&M, BU had really good football teams. Then they’d go 5-6. We’ll see the same here.
 
The current trends in our league aren’t good. We’ll see who is right soon enough.

I’m just thinking of a imagined football Saturday in 2013 when the Aggies, firmly in the SEC, are hosting Bama at Kyle to a packed house and UT is playing an away game in Corvallis against Oregon State.

How would that have served UT’s interests and appeal in the state of Texas?

Luckily now we won’t have to face this scenario. It will be something we just barely dodged, kind of like those alternative history novels where Germany wins World War II because the evacuation of Dunkirk was unsuccessful. A close run thing.

KU and Missouri’s top five rankings the last few years were as big a farce as A&M’s and UH’s were the early 90’s. They got them through weak OOC schedules and weak early conference schedules which allowed them to remain undefeated fairly deep into the season. And they won’t happen again any time soon. And UH was my no means a great team last year, they lost to UTEP, ECU in the conference title game, and they got drubbed by Air Force in the Bowl game, but they managed to beat two of the Big 12’s top five.

In a courtship, the girl is allowed to say no.

Not where I work.

Another comparison is we are the Old Big 8 as Nebraska and OU. Anyone who tries to compare what we have now (Big 12less) to the SEC and Big 10 really doesn’t pay attention to football outside of Austin. Did anyone happen to catch how well the Big 10 performed in the bowls last January? That is a strong football conference that just added a top 5 traditional power.

People should get out and visit other stadiums outside of Austin and get a taste for what goes on each and every Saturday. Again, the fans are the true losers in all of this.

Scip is right about one thing. ASU is a sleeping giant with the town, stadium, girls, etc. A pipeline to Texas would have been huge for them.

Scipio, FWIW, Mack was a bit oily in noting that recruits and their parents had been calling, wanting to know what was happening, and talking about where they would have to go to see their kids play. The devil you know, I suppose, considering what happened to Texas road trips when the Big 12 opened for business. So I guess that’s an offsetting factor for The Texas Longhorns.

I don’t get the academic-athletic link either.

As to the road trips… yes, Big 12 college towns by and large stink. The Pac-10 would be awesome in that regard. I imagine there are a significant portion of UT alums on the West Coast who would compete for and fill the UT seats, as well as buy up some of the local holders. One squawker I heard the other night pointed out that Texas would cause incredible competition for tickets to WC visits. But I agree that there are not quite as many alums moaning about the loss of these roadies as one might think.

I probably wouldn’t be rearranging my budget to follow UT to the West Coast, but I haven’t been out of Texas for a game in a long, long time. As long as they’re on TV, I’m cool with it.

GHD,

If you look at NU’s roster today (how is the 1995 roster relevant?), there are 26 Texans. That is a big chunk of their roster. Leaving the Big 12 is going to hurt their recruiting. We’ll see how NU does in the Big 10. Their academics are going to have to improve but it is not likely that Nebraska is going to dominate the Big 10 in football.

Kafka -
 
Those are 2nd and 3rd tier Texas recruits. Easy filler. They can be replaced easily. What’s rather striking is how shitty those Texas players are -amazing non-contributors, in fact. Look at NU’s best players – not Texans. Suh was from Portland. The other star players are from Colorado, California, Virginia, Florida, Oklahoma, Nebraska.
 
They aren’t Kansas or Mizzou or OSU, rising on the tide of Texas athletes. Never were. Nebraska’s historical greatness had nothing to do with Texas. Zero. Nada. This isn’t OU.
 
They’re one of the few teams in the country that actively recruits every part of the country. That model will not change.

Just because they don’t recruit Texas doesn’t mean it will hurt their recruiting. What evidence past or present can you reference to support your claim. This isn’t Oklahoma. In fact, since recruiting Texas their program has lost its glory. I was pointing out the fact that Nebraska historically draws from other parts of the country and found great success. Their being associated with the Big 10 and the exposure it will bring in parts where they have found great success in the past will help them re open those pipelines.

But is there any unbiased comparison there, statistically or otherwise, that says the new Big 12 is academically better than the SEC?

No, and the numbers (rankings) I was using are suspect because USN&WR has never released their criteria or their formula. But these are the numbers everyone uses, so …

I think I have my burnt-orange glasses on. It hadn’t occurred to me that the Big XII’s cow colleges pull it down so much. You’d think the cattle dewormer ads on their sports.yahoo feeds would have clued me in. I also had no idea that Tech was so bad, since its law school has a good reputation.

Guess, Scipio Tex, my take on this is skewed by the experience of watching Texas @ Stanford in ’85 and ’00. The brie and chardonnay crowd got such a giggle from the sausage and Shiner visitors. Same to a lesser degree with Texas at Sunken Diamond. Excruciating, the disdain leveled at anyone in burnt orange. Worse than when Wash State visited.

And when you talk about energy crackling, you are definitely not talking about Stanford or Bezerkley, where mellow, if not blase, is the tone.

Texas with its huge endowment and with many schools/departments at the top of the country, can hold its own academically with the Berkeleys and UCLAs. I tend to believe your take that if we shared a conference long enough with those schools our own academics and academic relationships would get a boost. Just not sure West Coasters in general will ever give up their joy at mocking all things Texas.

Furthermore, my hunch is that Longhorn, Inc. has either plans to swiftly make the new conference more competitive or has a completely different arrangement in mind that will take some time still to work out.

It hadn’t occurred to me that the Big XII’s cow colleges pull it down so much

Isn’t UT the only cow college in the Big XII?

We’re steers, goddamn you.
 
The fact that you guys don’t leash a Siberian tiger on your sideline makes you as almost as big a pussies as the Jayhawks and their fictitious bird-creature-man.

GHD/Scipio,

NU’s recruiting ranks for the last 3 years are 22, 28, and 30. That isn’t going to return NU to historical greatness. When they were great (back in the day), NU could recruit nation wide. NU hasn’t been elite for awhile and is not likely to be elite any time soon. Not recruiting as effectively in Texas is not going to help recruiting since Texas is one of the top 3 states for football recruits. Nebraska’s tradition of greatness is not known by your average prep star, which make recruiting that much tougher (which partially explains their recent recruiting woes).

It is one thing for a UT or a USC or an Ohio State or a Michigan to go through a dry spell. They dominate the recruiting in home states with lots of primo football players.

Nebraska is in a different situation. They have a very small population so they have to recruit nation wide to do well but to recruit well nation wide they have to first be successful. It is a chicken and egg problem. I don’t see NU doing better in football in the Big 10, especially now that they no longer in the Big 12 North. NU will lose more than it wins vs tOSU, Penn State, and Michigan (once Michigan gets back on track). The longer Nebraska goes as a non elite program, the tougher it gets for them to get back to elite status. I’m guessing it doesn’t happen for a long, long time.

I wanted us to join the Pac 10 and keep the SEC the hell out of our state. My reasoning is simplistic. I want to be great in football. I have a degree from UT and I’m not concerned about that side of it.

If we joined the Pac 10, we would have been able to pick off 3-5 top tier Cali. kids a year. If we add 10-20 top tier Cali kids to our roster……we would not be great. We would be virtually unbeatable. All the other stuff about college towns, tailgating, passion…..overrated. Give me a dominant program and I’m happy.

Joining the SEC would be disasterous. It wouldn’t open the South to us, it would open us up to the south. We saved A&M from themselves.

I don’t see where the Big 10 would have benefited us from a recruiting prospective. We are not going to go into Ohio or Pennsylvania and get players by and large. I could be swayed on this though.

So, basically we went with the safe option. Keep Texas locked down, keep the top 5 program churning and wait and see what happens with the NCAA, BCS, playoff, etc… It’s not like we are faltering and need to move like NU, CU and A&M do. We are still in the catbird’s seat once the next leg of re-alignment comes along. Just because the Big 10 and Pac 10 are pissed at us, and I’m sure they are, doesn’t mean they won’t spread their legs wide and be for us to come on in.

Scipio’s right… if a real Siberian tiger prowled your sideline, the Big 10 would never have dared to treat you like the ugly girl you use to meet her hot friend…
A maneater on the loose DEMANDS respect!

“I’m just thinking of a imagined football Saturday in 2013 when the Aggies, firmly in the SEC, are hosting Bama at Kyle to a packed house and UT is playing an away game in Corvallis against Oregon State.”

As opposed to a Saturday where UT is hosting USC with the Aggies in Starkville? There are arguments to be made about why UT in the Pac-16 and A&M in the SEC is bad for Texas but latching onto outliers is no way to make them. Let’s be grown ups here.

The fact that you guys don’t leash a Siberian tiger on your sideline makes you as almost as big a pussies as the Jayhawks and their fictitious bird-creature-man.

Read a history book. Other shit happened between “Being part of Ol’ Mexico” and the “Mack Brown era.”

A live tiger at the games has been discussed.

http://atomicteeth.fantake.com/2010/02/02/live-tiger/

It’s not going to happen. Unless, the Big 10 expresses a preference for live animals at football games, in which case, we’ll open a freakin’ zoo at The Zou (I still hate calling Faurot that).

ACC comparison — We’ll never know, so it’s not worth arguing over. I would note that Maryland has won a BCS game and a national title in basketball in the last decade, which puts them at least on par with Kansas and a hell of a lot further along than Missouri. Not exactly sure what any of those schools had to do with my basic point. Which is…

I don’t think the cultures would have meshed. I do think Texas would have lent tremendous value to the Pac-10 schools, but I don’t see how those schools would have returned much value. And in a worst-case scenario, Texas regresses to the Pac-10 mean instead of raising the standard.

One point of emphasis – this was not UT’s decision.

Once it was clear that A&M was not likely to accept the Pac16 idea, then Powers no longer had the political capital to proceed. Too much indecision and devisiveness to take on the Legislature (where special interests from Baylor, TCU & SMU would try to gum up the works).

Scipio’s write-up is an outstanding summary.

Meh

Triston -
 
I’m well aware of what a Jayhawk is. It’s not a whimsical bird-creature. A school with nuts makes their mascot a militant abolitionist and before every kickoff it’s a Missouri slaver being tarred and feathered on the 50. Sort of like Florida State’s flaming spear but with more cruelty.

One thing I don’t get…why can’t we just schedule tougher OOC games? Seems like Big 12 got weaker…OK, but why should that matter? Every decent team wants to play TX and have their stock pop if they can give it to us. I realize we now have 9 instead of 8 games for Big 12 but all I see this doing is forcing stronger OOC games for TX and the rest of the big boys of teh Big 12.

THoughts>?

It is my belief that UT was not given the same type of deadline that Colorado was because of our status and because, though the AD and President do the legwork, final approval is through the legislature.

An earlier thread had an Ag posting that seemed to be tuned in. Ag_inTexas? Said that Perry was not on board with Texas and Ags going different directions. In the same thread, there was a very convincing description of Perry’s political prowess, and the ruthlessness with which he deals with appointees who don’t show ‘loyalty’.

I, too, believe that this was in UT’s best interests, and not simply due to money. Politically it was in UT’s best interests. When the next round of negotiations are held, we should be in a very strong position because we acted in everyone’s best interest this time. They probably came up with the money to prevent a showdown in Austin. It is quite possible that by the time the next round of negotiations occur, the A&M regents will be much more reasonable because the Board will consist of a different group.

Now, why is Missouri being difficult? They are the ones that started all of this and couldn’t finish it.

Great job, Scipio. I was truly excited about the Big 10. They fill their stadiums, love football,
and seem to have their act together. The PAC 10, while attractive for the reasons you site, also have several very glaring flaws, and those flaws create problems for some people. A two to three year delay to let the college football stage become a bit more stable, should not hurt Texas and Oklahoma. There should always be room at the table for the two.

I believe the Texas/OU game was ranked in the top 3 of televised games last year. Texas vs. A&M top 5, and Texas vs. Tech in the top 10. I don’t remember the exact rankings and I’m too lazy to look it up.

Still crazy about your iPad?

Hook ’em!

java -
 
CU actually didn’t need a deadline. They jumped in feet first worried that they might lose their spot to Baylor in the Texas political dickering. They also assumed it was fait accompli that the Big 12 was finished, so no penalty payment. Ooops. Now they owe 15 million and can’t even buyout Hawkins for 3.
 
I think A&M pretty effectively blocked our ambitions and then we returned the favor with theirs. Now we’re both richer, but trapped in a league that doesn’t seem much fun.
 
iPad is a fun little tool. Definitely like it.

Good take. I wish that our BOR was the Hick’s board. (Bush) I think that that was a much stronger group. They might have been able to overcome the Perry factor. We may never get rid of the jerk.

A&M needs to get over the penis envy and learn to play in the sandbox with us. They never had an invitation from the SEC, did they? For whatever reason, they believe (or want to believe) they are highly sought after, but when it comes down to it, they are not a player.

Oklahoma was very smart. The Texas/OU game is a difficult game to replace, and Texas/OU should be in the same conference. It was enlightening to see the Sooners, and for that matter Tech and OSU, proceed in a much more intelligent fashion than A&M.

Perhaps the worry about the strength of A&M’s BOR was needless.

Hook ’em!

I think the iPad is a great ‘gadget’, but I would probably stay on BC all day and not accomplish a thing.

Yikes! Reread the first post and must apologize – the sleep deprivation is taking a toll. Site…sigh! Not even certain it made sense. Oh well.

Hook ’em!

What is it like being part of the most delusional fan base outside Pakistani Cricket and Mexican Soccer and Chinese Ping Pong? OH WAIT. THAT’S RIGHT. I forgot that most of your university is now comprised of mostly Pakis, Mexicans and Chinese. And we taxpayers get to foot your bills just to watch you nearly ruin the college landscape. Question: Can all the taxpayers that don’t wish to contribute to your school get our money back? That would be great thanks. And no, we won’t accept those odd out-of-country calling cards.

A school with nuts makes their mascot a militant abolitionist and before every kickoff it’s a Missouri slaver being tarred and feathered on the 50.

And would make sure that any Mizzou fan sporting a jersey with the name “Quantrill” on the back would wake up in a dumpster with a few little pieces missing.

Joe – we will not take you seriously till you use comprise correctly.

Sailor – Composed of. Now get cracking on my tax refund.

“taking two flights on prop planes and driving two hours in a rental car to get to Manhattan, KS.”

American Airlines has direct flights from DFW to Manhattan. Getting to KU (aka “flyover country”) will still suck though.

As a huge horn fan I hope we haven’t “won the battle only to lose the war”. Who cares about the extra $4-5 million we make by having our own network. Our athletic department already makes more than any department in the country. I don’t get it…. We just destroyed a conference that had us in position to have a top ranked football, basketball and baseball program and allowed us to be the most profitable program in the country. I blame Dodds for maybe being a little too smart for our own good. The old adage “pigs get fat …hogs get slaughtered” comes to mind. Could we have kept Nebraska in the fold just by agreeing to spread the wealth in the form of a Big 12 network, our by allowing the championship games to alternate to Kansas City? Making the overall conference stronger by spreading a little of the wealth would not have hurt us and may have helped us in the long run(better programs, better strength of schedule).

For those of you that think that the Ags going to the SEC ( and now we find out OU was offered as well) would not have hurt us- you are crazy. Whether we want to admit it or not the SEC is the best football conference in the country or at least that is the media’s(ESPN) perception.
If those two schools went to the SEC we would have been screwed and I think Mac knew it.

I just hope the Big 10 or the SEC will be interested the next time around. Nobody likes a bully and nobody really cares about college football on the left coast.

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Loan approvals are getting difficult especially for mortgages.

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We should think about this do you really want to make multiple trips to the dump? Leave it to the experts we will haul your stuff just put it in a dumpster.

to the comment poster above, you are absolutely right

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