Reggie Bush Forfeits Heisman

Can someone explain to me again why we shouldn’t want Bush’s award to go to its rightful recipient? You know the guy that was clearly the best player in college that year? The one that would have garnered every first place vote for the first and last time in history if they voted after the Rose Bowl? The best player in college football history deserves the award, and, well, if you don’t think so, then you are a Sooner, an Aggie, or a complete moron. No, there are no other options.

“He pitched it out!”

I mean its about time the award goes to its rightful owner.

“The persistent media speculation regarding allegations dating back to my years at USC has been both painful and distracting.”

Damn media! Hell, it’s been so distracting I’m just going to give up my Heisman!

That’s pretty damn distracting, and seemingly random. Like, the guy next to me at work is such a tool and so damn distracting, that I’m just going to give away my kid.

Isn’t it odd that OJ still has his? I mean, I agree with it, his transgressions came long after his time at USC, but it’s just odd.

Bartoncreek, pride? I’d tell them to fuck off too.

It’s so often a bullshit award. Vince has a cool glass football.

I don’t get the sentiment from Dan Patrick and other talking heads. They seem to keep saying that Vince shouldn’t even want it because he didn’t earn it. Excuse Me??

Further, this would be like if Tiger Woods played in the college golf championships last year. Its an amateur sport and Bush was a professional.

Similar premise works for the Olympics. Runner A runs in a race and wins. It is determined that Runner A was doping during the race, even though we don’t get the results til AFTER the run, No one complains or disputes that runner B was the real winner.

Another analogy. If runner A is determined to get a false start, (thus breaking a rule) no one complains when he is dq’d from the event. It is a well known rule that accepting money (let alone a house!!) would be breaking the rules and disqualify you. There should be no hand wringing over this.

Give it to Vince. He earned it. Not just because the other guy cheated. Even still, its his.

OJ still having his makes sense to me. All his transgressions were not associated with the time he was on the field or in school. His may be tainted because of his actions, but should not be taken away. Lets not forget our very own Ricky Williams was hardly a role model citizen after his college days. No reason why he should have his stripped. (i know the degrees of difference between Ricky and OJ are huge)

Orangechipper, I don’t think Orenthal should be stripped at all.

I also don’t think you should ever have Ricky’s name in the same sentence as that POS.

Great pre-emptive move by Reggie. To me he has now squared the deal. After all, he cheated, he didn´t kill anyone (yet). Now it is up to the Heisman Committee to step up, show some stones, and give the stiffarm trophy to VY. The logic is so simple, the award is to the best amateur aflete, Reggie cheated to make him a pro, VY was best amateur. This argument to “vacate” the award is total poozy approach and illogical. I understand that a national title game should be vacated, because there are so many options that could have happened. For example, Auburn was left out as an undefeated team, should they get it? Or should it be the loser in the game? But this is cut and dried. The trophy is a beauty contest, and like Miss USA, when they get caught going lickety split in a porn movie they forfeit the crown and the 2nd place winner takes it. Then when the 2nd place is found out to be the facless person getting it on it goes to the 3rd place winner and so on.

If the Heisman Trust decides to vacate the award for 2005 they should replace the current portrait of Reggie Bush with the following:

Vince Young was asked on SportsCenter if he’d be interested in being awarded the 2005 trophy if the Heisman Trust decides to strip Bush of the honor. "I definitely want it, I definitely want it,‘’ Young said. "But he won it fair and square definitely, and it’s much respect to Reggie, man. He had a great career and he’s already won a Super Bowl before me. I’m already mad about that. But at the same time I am definitely happy for him, man, and he is definitely the Heisman Trophy winner for that year. But if they send it over to me I am not going to say no to it.’’

I for one do not want them to give it to VY. I think VY deserves it and was the much better player than Bush was in 2005. However, if they want to just give it to VY because Bush was ineligible, then he shouldn’t want it. He should only want it if they acknowledge that he was the better player that year and deserved it and they made a mistake in the voting. If VY takes it, everyone will say that he only got it because Reggie broke the rules, not because he was better. No one will think that VY was the better player in 2005. VY in 2005: 3000yds passing, 26 TDs, 10 INT, 1000yds rushing, 12 TDs. Reggie 2005: 1750yds rush, 475yds rec, 18 total TDs, 1 ret TD. And VY touched the ball every play, so more was demanded of him and his decision making throughout the game.

As a Longhorn fan, I have this to say to the Heisman voters and trust: you had your chance to give it to VY in 2005, but you passed on that chance…screw you…and to those voters that passed over Colt for Bradford in 2008, screw you too. Colt in 2008 did much more with much less than Bradford did in an offense that ran the score up on people. In 2009 Colt, was not as good and maybe didn’t deserve it, but 2008 he was better than Sam. Here is a question…if you put Bradford in the UT offense in 2008, how does he do? Having to run for his life with a poor line, you saw how that went last year.

“The trophy is a beauty contest, and like Miss USA, when they get caught going lickety split in a porn movie they forfeit the crown and the 2nd place winner takes it.”

This is one of the worst rules in all of “sports.” Terrible analogy.

"But he won it fair and square definitely,……"

Uh, no Vincent, that’s why he’s returning it.

The only reason this is a national media level issue is because everyone knows Vince deserved the Heisman. In the wake of the Rose Bowl, every observer realized that Vince was not just arguably the best college football player of that year, but was, in fact, probably the best college football player of all time. Unbearable pangs of guilt and regret set in immediately, and have since cast a dark cloud of illegitimacy over the Heisman. It’s one thing to give some jorts-wetting douche like Rex Grossman or Tim Tebow the award in an otherwise down year. It’s quite another to deny it from the greatest player in the history of the sport.

This Bush scandal has given us an historic opportunity to right an egregious wrong. That’s why the story has captured the national imagination. I only hope that the Heisman committee takes the opportunity.

Art:

I couldn’t possibly agree more.

Barton:
“The best player in college football history deserves the award”

You’re giving the 2005 Heisman to Sammy Baugh? I get that you’re really wound up about this. I do. It’s perfectly justified. But “best player in college football history”? Get a clue, man. That’s like saying Ndamukong Suh is the best DT ins college football history. Was he great for one year? Yes. Were there others that were superior? Lee Roy Selmon, and that’s just off the top of my Sooner brain. Was Vince Young the best player in college football in 2005? WITHOUT QUESTION. Should he be given the Heisman retroactively? Absolutely. Was he the best in history? No. Did Vince punt? Play receiver or defense? No? Then sit down with that nonsense. He had one really great year, the end.

“If VY takes it, everyone will say that he only got it because Reggie broke the rules, not because he was better.”

This is exactly the sentiment I don’t understand. Again, if you and I are in a class and taking a test and I make a 98 and you make a 100. But we find out its because YOU CHEATED and used an unauthorized calculator… No one will say I only won because you cheated. I scored the best WITHIN the rules. Whats so hard to understand about this?

This isn’t like that golf story or the Calvin Johnson catch where it was a bogus application of a rule. This is a frigging obvious no-no. His parents got a HOUSE! Its like being a basketball player and shooting your free-throws from 2 feet out. When the ref disallows the basket, are you gonna say??, “I would’ve been the best free throw shooter on the field. Only reason Daniel Gibson has a better ft% is because they took my basket away… but everyone knows I made it.”

I’m an Aggie and thought Vince deserved the Heisman before the Rose Bowl. Last year I felt Suh should have won in a landslide, but his team wasn’t ranked #1 so let’s just give the award to the best running back on a National title game team.

One last analogy that i find appropriate and then I’ll let it go.

The cowboy versus Redskin game. What happened at the end. Roy Williams catches a TD pass. But because Orakpo was being held the TD was disallowed.

No one in their right mind says, “We know that the Cowboys REALLY won. The redskins should be ashamed to take that W.” We don’t complain because on the replay it was CLEAR that Orakpo was being held. Rules were broken and the play was disallowed.

How is the Vince/Bush saga any different? Reggie cheated/broke the rules and so his play is disallowed. Like it never even happened. Erased. Only difference is that it took the refs/NCAA 3 years to figure it out. That’s a shame, but part of the reason it took so long was because of Reggie and his family’s cover up. That shouldn’t be rewarded.

“Was he the best in history? No. Did Vince punt? Play receiver or defense? No? Then sit down with that nonsense. He had one really great year, the end.”

Get a grip. Vince’s 2005 year was transcendent and can be argued that he was the best college football player of all-time both by being both an elite passer and runner. A quick look at Baugh’s passing stats debunks your argument.

Year Comp Att Comp % Passing TD
1934 69 171 40.4 883 10
1935 97 210 46.2 1241 18
1936 104 206 50.5 1196 12

Give me Vince Young in his college prime (circa 2005). You can have Sammy Baugh, Jim Thorpe or Bronco Nagursky. You can have Tim Tebow, Charlie Ward, Michael Vick, Jason White or Tommie Frazier.

And, one could argue that Vince only had one really good year. However, if you’re talking college achievement award, Vince might be outclassed by Colt. That’s not what we’re talking about. Take Vince Young circa 2005, put him on against team in history, he wrecks shop. That’s what we’re talking about.

Don’t lose sight of the fact that the original theft of the award from Vince by ESPN was an absolute travesty, and Bush’s agent antics only provide an opportunity to set things right. Examples of the national media’s idiocy abound, but USC vs the great armies of the world in 2005 and the OU Screwjob in 2008 are the only reasons I will ever need not to give one flying fuck about anything they could ever say about UT or any athlete associated with it. Dan Patrick can talk about any Heisman trophy that was awarded while he was still a relevant media figure, which by my calculations cuts him off around Ron Dayne or so. Vince deserves his trophy, and UT deserves to show their three Heismans to recruits for the next 50 years.

Also, I didn’t think anything could make me laugh harder on this site than the Hawkins/Gary Busey piece, but Lee Roy Selmon > Vince Young actually did the trick. Nate is an underrated satire guy, imo.

I can’t believe what you guys are saying. Vince didn’t win the award and let it go. Right or wrong he didn’t win and he lost by a landslide. Should he have won it? Probably. But it wasn’t some egregious mistake. This wasn’t Eric Crouch winning it over whoever in 2001. This wasn’t Jason White over Larry Fitzgerald. This wasn’t Mark “I’m not even the best running back on my own team let alone in the country” Ingram over Suh. Reggie Bush was amazing that season and was a worthy recipient.

They shouldn’t give the award to Vince. They shouldn’t even take it away from him. That’s not their job. Vacate and have no winner, but to retroactively award it is lame and for Vince to accept is even lamer.

So many of you guys think that Vince lost the award to some bum. Reggie Bush is arguably one of the best college football players ever. This wasn’t Gino Torretta over Marshall Faulk.

Get over it and move on.

i sure am glad athlete’s have PR people to write their statements for them.

To the clown who said Sammy Baugh is the best college football player in history go back to your clown car and shut up we don’t do fucking stupid here. Sammy Baugh wouldn’t make the JV at Podunk High in today’s game, much less be the best player in history.

Its like the clowns who think Otto Graham is the best player ever ‘cause he won championships in a 5 team league and faced part time players who were carpenters in the off season. He wouldn’t be able to hold Peyton Manning’s clip board in today’s era. If you are the best player in today’s era you are miles better than anything 40 years ago. Look at track no idiot would say that Jesse Owens was a better sprinter than Maurice Greene. Yet people seem to think that Babe Ruth is a better player than Alex Rodriguez.

Same thing when people say Babe Ruth is the greatest ever. He didn’t face blacks or latinos and he faced guys who were roofers in the off season. Give me a break. Its not impressive being great against garbage.

It’s retarded to say anyone in any sport was the greatest before that sport was fully integrated. Period.

Most of these analogies are seriously flawed. Using a calculator on the SATs, or doping for a race are all methods of cheating that artificially enhance a someone’s performance. Getting paid money on the side has no bearing on how a player plays on the football field.

And yes, I do think VY should accept the Heisman, but not because of these bogus analogies. He was simply the best football player in the nation that year and the media got it wrong, plain and simple. The fact that they have gotten it wrong in other years shouldn’t negate an opportunity to correct that mistake. If Bush had truly been the best player that year (i.e. VY had gotten injured or something), then they should simply vacate it for the year.

I don’t think Vince is gonna get it, but the argument for it has been laid out here.

The question for the Heisman Trust is what would it have done if it had known that Bush was ineligible at the time.

Would they order a revote? Or would they eliminate all votes for Bush?

If all parties knew that a player was ineligible, the votes probably would not have been counted. Here, the number of points “unvoted” would have been overwhelming. It’s harder to call it an award based on the vote of the panel.

That said, the more I think about this, the more I think it would benefit the Heisman to award the trophy. It would show that the consequence of cheating is that the best eligible player still got it.

“Most of these analogies are seriously flawed. Using a calculator on the SATs, or doping for a race are all methods of cheating that artificially enhance a someone’s performance. Getting paid money on the side has no bearing on how a player plays on the football field. "

Excellent rebuttal. But the overall point remains. When you break a rule, no matter how small, you realize that it has consequences. The Dallas Cowboy analogy is probably the best one. The moment that Bush and his family accepted the monies, they were in violation and Reggie should not have stepped onto the field.

College football is an amateur academic sport. What happens off the field by nature DOES affect whether you can play on it. What if the horns had ignored the NCAA last year and let Collins and Scott play?? Being in compliance with NCAA rules and standards are the parameters that every college athlete HAS TO PLAY WITHIN. Its why UNC was without 13 starters against LSU. USC and Bush shouldn’t get a pass just because they weren’t caught until well after the fact.

Vince was the best amateur player in the country. Bush was a pro.

Leaving it vacant penalizes all the athletes who played by the rules.

This is sort of a ridiculous all around. The Heisman Trust would be tremendously foolish to re-award the 2005 award for at least 2 reasons:
1. Perpetuate the negative publicity surrounding this.
2. There are likely no rules governing this so, in theory, there could be another controversy on HOW TO re-award the trophy.

That said, Young lost a golden opportunity to display more maturity than he’s recently been known for. DECLINING the award, or saying he would if offered, would indicate to me that he’s confident in his accomplishments and looking to the future. Sadly, we didn’t see that.

Vince may have been the best ever (comparing passing statistics from the 1930’s to now name calling is comedy nonetheless), but he isn’t the best now.

Two quarterbacks in the NFL have better records than Vince since he entered the league: Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

If the object of a QB in the NFL is to win games than Vince might not be the best but he’s on the short list.

“magnusbleuveigner said:
September 14th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

Isn’t it odd that OJ still has his? I mean, I agree with it, his transgressions came long after his time at USC, but it’s just odd."

I think they considered taking OJ’s away, but couldn’t agree on who would go to him and ask for it back, something about none of them wanting to be beheaded.

Flamingmonkeyass:
What is the object of the college game? Different from the NFL?

Leave it vacant as a permanent reminder. Take Reggie’s portrait down and leave the spot blank. If they hang Vince’s portrait there, it won’t get a mention 20 years from now. If they leave it blank, it’ll still be worth at least a footnote during the Heisman ceremony in 2030. That’s what would protect the dignity of the award.

If it went to VY, how is Vince supposed to feel at awards ceremonies for the Heisman? Should he still go? How acward would that be? Does he get a painting? who here wants him to feel like the astrick Heisman winner? That is much worse than the snub.

Reggie did not cheat ont he field. Cheating on a test is not analogous. He is technically ineligible due to soemthing completely unrelated to football. the award should be vacated at this point. Other Heisman winners have surely accepted extra benefits and we don’t need to go down that road.

fear – Vince should feel like, “I won the Heisman, baby!”

And given that he’s said he wants it, I’m not too worried about VY feeling like an “astrick” Heisman winner. If he is, then it would be the baddest, most alien, I’m-better-than-any-other-“astrick” astrick in the history of intercollegiate astricks.

(And by the way, Reggie gladly cheated on the field as well — see the “Bush Push” vs ND. All around, a bad guy properly erased from memory.)

If the Heisman Trust had realized that Bush was ineligible before the election, they would have declared Bush ineligible for the Heisman. Vince would then have won the Heisman in a fair election.

The problem with conducting another election at this point is that people’s memories have faded a bit and it weirds out the Heisman Trust. The problem with just giving it to Vince is that nobody wants to do the awards ceremony. The problem with just giving it to Vince without an awards ceremony is that it devalues the Heisman a bit.

Though I think the fair thing to do is to give it to Vince, my guess is that the Heisman Trust gives it to nobody because that is the easiest thing to do.

I’ll gladly accept that award on Vince’s behalf.

Bush cheated, but his cheating did not improve his ability to compete for the aware in question. That’s why the “VY only got the award because Bush was disqualified” argument is so persistent.

Maduro…. that’s irrelevant. AJ Green sold a jersey and received 1,000 dollars. Right now his team is suffering as he misses 4 games due to suspension. They don’t dare play AJ during the suspension because they recognize the consequences. Bush didn’t care. He had a blatant disregard for the amateur rules in place.

Reports are that Bush’s family received 1500 a week in benefits. Also received by Bush was,

    * $623.63 for a hotel stay by Bush at the Venetian Resort & Casino in Las Vegas from March 11-13, 2005, charged to Michaels, according to a document signed by Bush.
    * $1,574.86 for a stay by Bush at the Manchester Hyatt in San Diego from March 4-6, 2005, paid for by Michaels, according to a hotel document, a hotel employee and a source.
    * Approximately $13,000 to Bush from New Era to purchase and modify a car, three sources said.
    * As reported by Yahoo! Sports in April, $54,000 in rent-free living for a year at Michaels’ $757,500 home in Spring Valley, Calif., according to Michaels and San Diego attorney Brian Watkins.
    * Also from previous Yahoo! reports, $28,000 from Michaels to help Bush’s family settle pre-existing debt, according to Michaels and Watkins.
    * Thousands of dollars in spending money to both Bush and his family from the prospective agents, according to multiple sources.
****

So in theory Bush’s flagrant abuse means he NEVER WOULD’VE PLAYED A DOWN in 2004 or 2005. Just because he was adept at keeping it hush-hush doesn’t mean he should be rewarded. He broke the rules prior to setting foot on campus in 2004 & 2005. Therefore his performances never existed. The fact that his cheating didn’t effect his performance on the field is irrelevant. The NCAA is for students and amateurs. From http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ys-bushprobe

SMU boosters handed out less than $60,000 and got the death penalty. SC got off easy.

Bush never played college football in 2005. That’s the fact today therefore someone who did (VY) should be given the award.

If someone would have had the balls to report what was going on back then we wouldn’t be dealing with this now. I remember watching the ceremoney and wondering where the hell Bush got those earrings. There were rumors back then that the Heisman Trust should have checked out.

Heisman Trust just sent a release. “the Trustees have determined that there will be no Heisman Trophy winner for the year 2005.”

i doubt reggie is the only heisman winner to ever have received perks. My thoughts on the matter are here http://monkeybusiness1.wordpress.com/2010/09/15/a-heisman-in-the-hand-is-worth-how-many-in-the-bush/

SMU boosters handed out less than $60,000 and got the death penalty. SC got off easy.

SMU boosters handed out a helluva lot more than $60,000 — shit that was just the “hush” money after they got caught.