Stoops- 7, Mack- 2

A-fucking-men. Just looking for a reason to be excited about 2011. Cmon Mack, do me a solid.

$2!

Clueless Mack probably texted Stoops a congratulations.

Don’t worry. You’re apparently hiring Chad Morris from the (third) biggest (name) school in the State of Oklahoma to be your new OC. I guess hiring folks with OK ties has worked out well for you in the past though.

Scip-
I’m embarrassed by the fact that you had to shoot down the straw man 10 win/Holiday Bowl arguments that inevitably emerge from the folks running our program and many of its supporters.

I think considering many aspects of our program, if anything, the real fluke has been the moments of success UT football has enjoyed on the big stage. In the last decade, Mack is the only HC to win a MNC outside of his first 5 years heading his respective program. The trend will continue with Chizik and Kelly facing off this year.

Ultimate success comes from a focused bottom line approach but we’ve been Stoops’ power bottom (as a writer recently said).

Spot on Scipio.

Embarassing that the Texas brass doesnt mind have their face rubbed in the dirt by a two bit school from the North that doesnt have nearly the resources Texas does.

Texas the Joneses? Yea right. OU is the bellcow of the Big 12 and how the powers to be have allowed this to happen is beyond me.

Thankfully, after Mack has allowed Stoopsie to absolutely own him for almost the entirety of his tenure, our fearless leader has decided that he actually wants to win championships, instead of just writing paychecks to his brosefs.

Better late than never, I suppose.

P.S.

Thank our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, we didn’t go 8-4 or 7-5 this year. Seriously, thank him.

If that happened, we would have failed, and nothing would have been fixed.

MadClapper- The image of Mack fist bumping GD, Tolly, and Mad Dog, saying “What’s up brosef?” makes our recent ineptitude slightly more palatable. If only it were true.

I could not possibly agree more. In 06 Stoops won a title w/Paul Thompson as QB thanks in large part to our no-show against A&M. We were still basking in the glow of the 05 MNC at the time, but in hindsight that particular failure by Mack was downright criminal. Certain games matter more than others – Stoops gets it, Mack doesn’t. Hence 7-2.

absolutely….5-7 was needed to seriously expose the flaws beyond the point of reasonable argument. We became an over-valued stock and a market correction was in order…..new blood arrives to fix the fundamental problems and removal of the most glaring weaknesses and under performing functions of the of the company may be the most important event in UT football since a couple of guys named Young and McCoy signed LOI’s…Had we gone 8-4 or 7-5 this year, we have the same overvalued stock with the same fundamental problems and MB ends up leaving the program in a couple years in the same condition he found it when he arrived. It would be a shame if his loyalty to dead weight friends would have allowed that to happen.

When VY took it in the end zone on 4th and 5, it granted GD five more years and then he got lucky some skinny kid from West Texas turned out to be so special. When I saw ABC flash the big 12 South standings at the end of the ATM game…I was so disgusted and really shocked of how a program with so much talent and resources could allow this to happen. Yes 8-4 would have been the worst possible scenario for 2010…..but when you lose to effing Iowa State at home, heads have to roll (Thank you Iowa State)…..it should have happened along time ago. Talent is not the issue, even with how this year’s squad played and what returns. They make the right hires and push the right buttons this can be turned around very quickly.

Matt Taibbi used the same analogy rather hilariously to describe Wall Street’s attitude toward the American taxpayer.

Agree.
Will only add,
2008 Texas says hello (beat both OU and Missou)
There you can write in the usual, sooners beat Tech
but it was a hatchet job.

2010 Aggies say hello. Beat both participants head up

Scipio Tex:

My sentiments exactly; MB has always aimed too low. While Stoops’ goal is to win championships, Mack Brown’s goal is to “finish somewhere in the top 10.” Fuck that.

As it is with “Explosive Plays,” “Bleeding for the program,” South Division championship rings, the 2008 asterisk, a streak of consecutive 10-win seasons, “Winning the state of Texas,” and countless other made-up metrics, Mack Brown plays to one standard and one standard only: his.

What a benignly kind but poisonously insecure man. Thirteen years for the big money to finally put its foot down on his throat, but at last it’s finally happening. People reference his $5 million salary – look instead at his total compensation over his time here. Don’t have time or inclination to add it all up, but let’s guess around $25 million all told.

Two conference titles for all that money spent. What a laughable ROI.

“We play to win championships.”

Well, we might “play” to win championships. Bob Stoops coaches to win championships; Mack coaches to win 10 games a year and pile up offensive stats against the 9 lousy teams we play every year.

Maybe new blood in the staff will help change that. But programs do take on the personality of their head coaches, and Mack will still be in charge of setting the general tone of the program and most likely meddling in the offense. I’m thrilled we’ll be getting rid of so much dead wood if all the rumors come to pass, but really think it would be better if Mack would just call it a day and let Muschamp stop waiting.

Hook ’em!!!

Here’s the question: What would Texas’ & OU’s records be his year if Stoops & staff had coached our squad & Mach & staff had coached OU’s team?

To ftf :“I guess hiring folks with OK ties has worked out well for you in the past though.”
& I guess hiring players from Tx has worked out well for you in the past

Seven CCG appearances (winning six) could have been sheer luck or chance, but eight (winning seven) damn sure isn’t!

They don’t give out trophies for consecutive 10-win seasons??

If you really want to lose you bagel and smear this morning, look at the players from the 2004 offensive squad that are on NFL rosters (Vince, Ced, Justin, Lyle, Kasey, David, Tony, Jonathan, Limas, Ahmard and Bo). Then remember that GD was not able to score a single point with this group in the ’04 RRS. Look at the ’05 roster to see what type of NFL talent is required to overcome such bad coaching.

It’s not just Mack. It’s the University of Texas not willing to do what it takes to be the best. I’ve followed Texas football from afar (Mobile, AL) since having to leave San Antonio in 1955 due to my Dad’s job being transferred. In the Royal years, the university was totally committed to being the best in the country: Darrell wanted it, the administration wanted it, and Texas students and fans would settle for nothing less. We played hard-hitting, bone-crunching defense in those days, and no one in the nation had better, tougher athletes than Texas. We were the best team in America in the ‘60s. But in the late sixties and early seventies, Texas began to change its nature, began to transmute itself from a lean conservative university to an essentially liberal institution with a liberal, multicultural agenda. Over the years it became more and more an educational enterprise more concerned with public relations and political correctness than with having the best football program in America. Texas became more interested in hiring a PR man, a mere manager of a football program than in hiring an honest-to-God football coach. Nick Saban and Bob Stoops are football coaches, and they are football coaches first, last, and always. This is not really what UT wants. The university’s image long ago took precedent over winning football games. And, like it or not, this is the reality of the situation now, and what’s more, it always will be. Many will say, “Well it IS important to us to be more than a football program, to not have the tail wagging the dog, so to speak.” And that’s fine, if that’s the way you want it, but then quit whining about not beating the Oklahomas and the Alabamas, because football is what those schools are committed to far and above all else. The University of Texas has become a huge, unwieldy, politically-correct bureaucracy incapable of competing with those schools, because at bottom, it doesn’t really care to, it doesn’t have the WILL to. Having lived in Alabama for 50 years, I can tell you that the University of Alabama has the will to. Football is what they eat, drink, sleep, and live. It is the reason for being for this state. People in Texas only think they have this will, but if they could see it firsthand like I have for five decades, then they’d understand. Texas doesn’t want it as much. Nor does Texas want it as much as Oklahoma. And that’s why Oklahome and Alabama have twice the National Champioships that Texas has. That is why Oklahoma OWNS the Big Twelve championship. Texas would never have hired Bob Stoops or Nick Saban; they prefer the smiling grandfatherly persona of a nice guy like Mack Brown. And that’s why Texas will never be able to compete equally with the hard intense ferocity that is Alabama and Oklahoma football. Remembering the early Royal years, remembering the fierce, implacable Texas defense of 1963, the unwavering commitment of the Streets and the Nobises, it makes me sad to write this. But let’s face it: James Street would not have come out of a National Championship game if his life had depended on it, and if he had even contemplated it, Darrell Royal would not have let him. Everything Scipio wrote is right, it’s just that he doesn’t go far enough; it’s much deeper than that: it’s become endemic to the university and who they are now, and that’s not going to change, no matter the coaching situation.

Eyes has it. Not sure what Mack is bringing to the table at this point if Muschamp is behind all the new hires. Is Mack merely going to be Will’s security blanket, or will there be meddling and more nonsense about explosive plays? Either way, it’s hard to see the benefit for him staying on.

this sucks….

Cherry pick your favorite stat and build a case around it. Want Big XII championships? Then Stoops owns Mack. Fine. Pick your other favorite stat and you can make any case you want. National Championships (the ultimate measure)? Wash. Head to head? Almost a wash. All-time series? Not even close. Yawn.

Mr. Whitney, what you’ve just written is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

The real issue of the Stoops/Brown comparison is what each does with less than over-whelming talent. Both of Mack’s conference championship teams were in peak years and went on the the MNC game. Contrast that with Stoops winning conference crowns with flawed teams (e.g. Paul Thompson-led 2006 team, this season). No contest when it comes to making the most of what you have.

Scipio – Outstanding post, brilliant in its succinctness. Fuck you, pay me.

I’ve followed Texas football from afar (Mobile, AL) since having to leave San Antonio in 1955

I never would have guessed.

DCTexEx – business ethics. Be nice to the elderly or I’ll take my top off.

Mr. Whitney – brevity is the soul of wit.

Whitney’s article may be flawed, but there a valid argument that the University puts too much of a premium on the non-coaching aspects of the position. The CEO model for a HC may possibly work somewhere with someone, but just a few months after a glowing national article proclaiming Mack as the paragon of the CEO model, we have an absolute disaster of a season in which multiple, long-standing neglected problems are exposed.

There really should be dis-incentives for more than just a handful of speaking engagements and the other bullshit. This program is at the point where winning sells itself. We need bona fide coaches, not goddamn politicians.

A lot of Stoops’ coordinators have been hired by other schools. Other than a few DCoordinators – I haven’t seen other schools come after any of your coaches. Mack’s love of family & comfort has him working with a staff of yes men who don’t contribute. Sadly, the scales have fallen off Mack’s eyes (or Dodds scraped them off).

We pay $5 million/year for a guy who’s gets owned by our biggest rival year after year but who keeps the donors happy and the seats full. That’s apparently good enough for the suits at Belmont. Muschamp has potential to be the first real football coach in years. Otherwise we’ll go back to to politicaally correct PR types as noted above.

um, thanks for you thoughts, Mike, but take a hike. No politics on this blog.

um, thanks for you thoughts, Mike, but take a hike. No politics on this blog.

I seem to remember that we have a ‘no retards’ policy, as well.

All right, TexOz and Spider, I withdraw the “political” references, and I apologize if I wrote something inappropriate to this site. But it’s not about politics anyway. It’s about the desire to be the best at football. And I can promise you this: Texas football will never again be the dominant factor it was in the sixties, or a nationally dominant player again, because football is just not as important to those in charge as it once was. Texas beat Oklahoma nine years in a row shortly after Royal took over. That will never happen again. Nor will Texas ever again challenge Oklahoma for football supremacy in the region. And that’s because football’s just not as important to Texas as it is to Oklahoma or even to Alabama.

No school in the history of college football has underachieved like UT. That is not just Mack Brown’s issue, that is all UT’s issue. Even reasonable competency over the years could have won more NC’s with our resources. We are the poster child of Wimp

If it’s any consolation, Mack has completely owned Stoops in number of Big 12 Chinpionships.

DC-Ex: Not so fast. It’s easy to lay down a flaming rebuke. It’s quite another thing to offer a critical counter point.

What did you not like about his statement? The fact that political correctness and it’s associated liabilites hit home? Or did you not like the fact that Texas does not have the WILL to impose on its competition, choosing instead to take an every five-year, pot-luck talent approach to winning.

Mike’s claims are not without merit. I offer two examples.

The Force
by Dan Jenkins for Sports Illustrated / October 18, 1965

Royal and his top aides—Jim Pittman, Charley Shira and Mike Campbell—have been together for 10 years, and they are still young (average age: 40) and energetic. Young enough, in fact, to keep changing their methods and organization with the times. “If we coached the way we did five years ago, or even two years ago, I’ll guarantee you they’d have our gunnysacks,” says Royal. Change comes in the subtleties—timing, technique—that the spectator seldom can detect. It comes with working on new tricks for old traps, better ways to read plays, simplifying assignments, improved drills to defeat a block and reach the ballcarrier.

Texas devotes spring training and all of the early two-a-day workouts before the season to doing what it does best—its timing and rhythm, its area blocking on offense and the remarkably simple procedure of meeting and defeating blockers on defense.

“We don’t teach stunts,” Royal says. “Oh, we know a few to stir some folks up now and then, but on defense we teach ‘em to meet the guy and try to whip him and get to that ball. Take Nobis. He doesn’t key on anybody. He plays the ball and, man, does he love it when one of our ends turns somebody back into him. I can’t think of anything he likes better. Me too. But these things are taught by Charley and Jim and Mike and the rest. I’m the pride coach.”

Exactly what that entails is Royal’s secret. One thing a visitor to a Texas practice notes quickly is that a Longhorns coach would rather turn down an invitation to the LBJ Ranch than holler at a player who has made a mistake and embarrass him in front of the squad. “When you do that, he has to swallow his pride,” Royal says. "And that’s the thing I want him to have more than anything else. He can’t afford to lose any of it.

“You got to look a man in the eye, whether he’s on your side or the other.” When Nobis, who is called Rancher by the team, says this he sounds a little like a gunslinger, which is what he resembles in the Stetson hat he occasionally wears and shirts that won’t button around his mighty neck. “Look him in the eye and let him know you’re ready,” he says. “When I call a defense, I stare at our guys the best I know how to show ’em I got confidence.”

As compared to this….

Constant Eyes of Texas
by Pat Forde

(Friday night before Rice game)
“I need to have a presence,” he says. “I’m there more to be seen than anything else. I walk in, listen, say something so they know I’m here, and that’s it.”

In the defensive meeting, Muschamp shows a mixture of Rice and Kansas offensive video because the Owls’ new coordinator, David Beaty, was with the Jayhawks last year. Muschamp quizzes his players on what their responsibilities are in different sets and says the Rice game plan is unknown enough that Texas probably will keep its defense fairly basic early on.

“Let’s get our cleats in the dirt and be ready to play,” Muschamp says.

Muschamp wants his defense to establish one thing right away: Texas is there to hit hard all day. Brown, who ran an NFL-style preseason camp of light hitting in scrimmage situations to avoid injuries, strongly reinforces that.

All through August, Brown chided tacklers who took running backs to the ground. He chastised them for invading “the cylinder” of protective space around quarterbacks.

“Light … them … up,” Brown says. “I will not mention the cylinder tomorrow, guys. I will not mention staying up.”

(Saturday, after Rice game):
After a brief quiet moment in the locker room, the veterans start jumping and shouting in unison: “Ain’t no party like a Longhorn party cuz a Longhorn party don’t stop!” Pretty soon the whole team is jumping and celebrating together, and everyone remembers that victories are to be celebrated.

“Congratulations on being 1-0,” Brown says. “That’s important. Give yourself a hand.”

But after that, Brown shifts into critique mode.

“I didn’t see as much fun as I thought I would,” he says. "We’ve got a little arrogance about this bunch right now. I shouldn’t have said this could be the best defense we’ve ever had because right now we’re a long way from that. I talked about the physical run game; we need to stop talking about that.

“This isn’t a 10-win team right now, much less a championship team. We need to get better for next week, not down the road. We won’t beat Wyoming playing like that.”

Then, as usual, Brown goes in to meet the media and plays a different tune. One thing you will never hear from Brown are harsh public comments about his players. He’d rather swallow a hand grenade than criticize anyone individually.

That’s both personal belief and recruiting experience. He knows it plays well with the mamas.

“Really excited to have won the opener,” he tells reporters. “There will be an upset today as we look around the country, and it scares you to death.”

Brown acknowledges that there is “a whole season of things we need to fix,” but notes that the bottom line is victory.

“We’ve got to be careful sending a message that winning isn’t enough,” he says. “That’s a bad message.”

You see the difference? Mike is alluding to the “old” school on the 40-acres approach to football as “Will” and “Pride” vis-a-vis the “new” school on the 40-acres approach to football as “Emotion” and “Passion”.

When was the last time you heard someone say, “Go out there and assert your emotion over the other guy?”

Your response to Mike’s take has the appearance of maybe being trapped in the Beltway for far too long.

I think Mike has as snausage lodged in his cerebral cortex.

I agree with frozen and therefore Whitney to an extent. Wasn’t a part of the University community in the Royal era but thereafter the emphasis was most assuredly on priorities other than football. In terms of existing priorities Mack is perfect for the Admin and BoR. I like winning and winning championships, but I’m not sure my priorities there should be those of the Admin and BoR (in the interest of disclosure all of my donations have been to the University and not a nickel to the Foundation, a product of my time from 84 to 91 no doubt). I would never want the President to say he needed money to build a university of which the football team can be proud.

That said, we play we keep score. Any metric that doesn’t include championships sucks ass. Pay me.

This was a nice Sunday morning read while sipping on coffee; similar to last nights ou victory being the final kick in the nuts to this wonderful season of good ol boy complacency. We salute you mack, as your probably about to hit the back 9 this morning. Good thing you have all those 10 win seasons to hang on your wall.

Anyway, good post Scip, I still have people that say we’re fans who just bitch b/c of all of mack’s “success” these last 10 yrs. These people are usually non season ticket holders or fans of other schools. The only good argument they have is 3 bcs wins in 5 years….

So if I understand Whitney correctly we need to take our cultural cues from Oklahoma and Alabama – isn’t that what Aggie is for? I’m too young to remember the transition that occurred when DKR left and we immediately became a bunch of unwashed liberal hippies but I do remember when Akers and McWilliams got busted smoking reefer at the 50 yard line after a party at the moon tower.

TCU, Baylor, SMU and a&m are all much better than us right now. We witnessed the perfect storm and it’s a bitch.

We can’t even talk about championships right now.

There is truth in what Mike Whitney says, but his implication is that this evolution in UT football is irreversible. That you can have either top-notch, DKR-style football or wimpy, MB-style football.

I say bullshit to that. Just think what the record would be if MB had fired his cronies when it became apparent to everyone else that they were incompetent, say in ’01 or ’02. If he had even fired GD in ’03, the same time as Reese, and hired an OC of the Muschamp stripe, just think how good life would be now. But no, he rode those dogs to death and we have the current situation.

An MB-led team with top-notch assistants would have been great, but I think MB himself will have to go now. His good will has been squandered, just like the football talent he’s had.

JMO. I’m an old fart, but I know what good football is. And that includes ESPECIALLY kicking OU’s ass every year.

I’m tired of rooting for teams for the north to do what we could take care of ourselves. And being letdown.

I don’t disagree with one of Mike’s points – namely, that OU is happy to hire cocksuckers like Switzer and Stoops and the outcome is showing itself on the field.

I don’t know about the others with negative reactions, but this part of the post is what distracted me from his point: “Texas began to change its nature, began to transmute itself from a lean conservative university to an essentially liberal institution with a liberal, multicultural agenda.” That, in the context of the article, is posited as a bad thing — and whether it is or it isn’t, it is going to hit a certain amount of the readership the wrong way. (Among other things, the transition away from “lean conservative” mean that black guys could play football – or, hell, go to the law school.)

But that doesn’t mean we need Mr. Coddle as our football coach. Very “liberal” institutions of recent vintage have hired hard-assed guys — Jim Harbaugh at Stanford, Pete Carroll at USC are two examples. But, Mike’s right that WE haven’t done it.

And if we did, would it make us better? It certainly hasn’t worked for Bama lately with anyone but Saban, nor has it worked for LSU other than with Saban (Miles is still living in the House that Nick Built in many respects, not to mention the SEC love-fest with CBS). And when Stoops dies in his office, who’s to say their next hard-ass isn’t a program-killer like John Blake?

In short, while Stoops and Saban may be better on-field program managers than Brown, that doesn’t mean that everyone who is “like” Stoops or Saban is going to be better than everyone who is “like” Brown.

Salt Pillar, I’m not talking culture: I’m talking football. I make the comparison to Oklahoma simply because there’s so much bitching about Oklahoma having more National Championships, more Conference Championships, and Stoops so often outperforming Mack. I merely point out that Oklahoma outperforms because they want it more, because they’re willing to hire a Bob Stoops and we’re not, and because they’ll move heaven and earth to be the best. Texas won’t. Why not? Well, the state of Texas always has the Cowboys, the Rangers, and innumerable other interests and distractions. Oklahoma has only the Sooners, Alabama has only the Tide. The Longhorns just don’t matter as much in their state as the Sooners do in theirs. And that’s a lot of the desire difference. I’m not suggesting that Oklahoma or Alabama be a cultural touchstone for Texas; only that it’s unrealistic for Longhorn fans to expect to consistently beat a school so totally dedicated to winning football as Oklahoma and Alabama are. If Texas were truly that committed to being the best in football, they’d fire Mack now and go get Jim Harbaugh or Les Miles or Gary Patterson or Chris Petersen. But they won’t because the administration of the university is afraid they’d have to turn over too much power to the football coach. How do you think Bama got Saban? They gave him the key to the university, told him anything he wanted was his, and that no one there would ever dare to lift a finger to oppose him. Texas will never do that, because the football team’s just not important enough to those that hold the power.

Mike, you do know your keyboard has a return key, right?

White space is your friend. Try using it sometime.

Hook ’em,!!!

@TXStampede:

The entire correlation b/w liberal or conservative values to the success of the football program is completely ridiculous. The argument itself is masturbatory in regards to values and that’s really the only true value in anything he said. There is absolutely nothing to tie these two disparate topics together.

This site has posted some wonderfully written pieces discussing the history of our program along with the history of cheating in college football. If you look at the history of the program there was a huge power struggle over the program after DKR that caused a house divided under Akers. Add in some of Akers failings as a coach and the prevalent cheating of the era and some of the big reasons for the slide of our program become apparent. Some of these factors also lead to DKR hanging them up when he did.

Everyone can crawl out of the woodwork and rip Mack for his shortcomings and failings but they have zero to do with liberal or conservative values.

If you want to have a discussion, I’m happy to do so. But when someone posts a bunch of unadulterated bull shit in order to make themselves feel better about their political views, well they get what they get. There a lot here to actually have a very informative discussion for everyone, let’s just keep the worthless non-sequiturs out of it.

Do I think we should have won more under Mack? Absolutely. I think we wasted some damn good teams and opportunities for various reasons that unacceptable(GD as OC, playing certain players over others who were more deserving or more healthy, etc.). But I also remember what things were like before Mack got here and I’ve got to say he’s made things a hell of a lot better than they were.

There have been a lot of very valid criticisms over the last 13 years, but there’s also a lot of BS being thrown around that no one was complaining about a year ago.

Whitney lost me when he called Colt a puss for leaving the MNC game. He’s an idiot.

Whitney – Sorry to get hung up on the socio-political cultural angle, but you pointed to it as being the underlying problem with our football team and that’s ridiculous. You’ve now shifted the blame to a “we’re not focused or hungry because we Texans have so many other things to distract us,” but that’s not what you said earlier.

Having entertainment and cultural options has no bearing on the UT football program other than that fans will be impatient with an inferior product and spend their money elsewhere, but we clearly aren’t suffering from a lack of cash flow over the past decade. If your new thesis and post-DKR timeline are to be believed, then Miami and USC would never have enjoyed success and Wyoming and Idaho would be world beaters.

DCTexEx – thanks for the perspective and calling out the BS. I was shifting from annoyed to pissed off over this and it’s not worthwhile.

“If Texas were truly that committed to being the best in football, they’d fire Mack now and go get Jim Harbaugh or Les Miles or Gary Patterson or Chris Petersen.”

If nothing else, I’m glad we agree that liberal institutions such as Stanford are perfectly capable of hiring tough-nut coaches like Harbaugh. In other words, it has little or nothing to do with “liberal” vs “conservative” generally.

As to the specifics: Miles is a squatter in the House that Nick Built (with some rent money from CBS), while Gary Patterson and Chris Peterson evoke the ghosts of Dennis Franchione and and Dan Hawkins. The truth of coaching hires is that it is, to a large degree, a crapshoot … which is why when your head man wins a couple of conference titles, wins one NC and plays for another, has a decent-to-good record against your main rivals, and otherwise wins a lot of games, a BoR had d better be damn careful before they rush to hire Flavor of the Month Guy only to find out that he’s Rich Rodriguez.

I dont buy it. It’s human nature to want what you don’t have. We don’t have conference championships, so we think that’s what is most important. But follow along with this thought experiment and test what you really believe.

Is OU’s conference championship in 2004 and blowout loss to USC better than our 12-1 season and classic win over Michigan in the Rose Bowl? Not to me. Would you want to trade that season with OU?

Is OU’s championship in 2008 and subsequent loss to Florida better than Texas’ 12-1 season with a last second come from behind victory over Ohio State? Not to me either.

I’d rather win the BCS game. Stoops sucks at BSC games. If Stoops were coach at UT a substantial group of fans would vilify him for his underperformance in the last five BCS games. It’s not just something I tell myself. I honestly would not want to trade places with the dirt burglars.

Crash – for me, the key point is that conference titles GET you to the BCS games. So while I agree with you that our BCS-winning seasons are to be preferred over Chinless Bob’s blowout losses, we need those conference titles as the clearest line of sight to the big stage.

BEHorn – Conference titles are a good in and of themselves.

Let’s simplify this. As Scipio has pointed out, IT’S COACHING.

It’s not because some hippies have taken over Austin. Or because OK and Bama want it more than UT. Have you spent any time reading the various UT message boards over the past few years? There are literally thousands of Longhorn fans that

I will grant you that the home crowd noise meter could use some improvement and that goes for basketball as well. And here’s one of the reasons why – OPTIONS. I’ve spent some time in Alabama, and I’ve driven through OK a few times. Living in Texas gives you a lot more options for your sports enthusiasm. Texas has 3 NBA teams, 2 NFL teams and 2 MLB teams. I think we have about a dozen D1 college football teams.

Our problem is not that UT or Austin has gotten soft. Have you seen our swim team? Basketball team? Or baseball team? I wouldn’t call them soft to their face if I were you.

IT’S THE COACHING, STUPID. It’s the coaching style and philosophy that has prevented us from getting that 110% from our players. Vince and Colt were able to squeeze out those extra efforts because their persona and performances demanded it.

hmm, sentence was cut off. “There are literally thousands of Longhorn fans that are fanatical to the point of needing psychological evaluations and restraining orders.”

bigduke – agreed. But I also agree with Crash that the absence of a conf championship does not invariably a bad season make.

Mike W. made a couple of claims about why Texas has struggled compared to OU or Bama: that the political/cultural environment of the university has negatively affected the program, and that the University prioritizes other things over football. The first claim seems retarded enough to me to not even warrant comment, but it has been eviscerated here anyway. Fine.

I want to address the second claim, which I think is also total bullshit. It reminds me of the classic debate: Beer or Tacos? The thing about the beer vs. tacos debate is that it is a completely false decision. The correct answer is Beer AND Tacos. There is no good reason why the wealthiest public university in the country (by far), and the wealthiest athletic department in the country (also by far) cannot have whatever in the world it goddamn wants. I really doubt Bill Powers sits in his office thinking about how he would really like to have a better football program, but then they wouldn’t be able to rebuild Welch hall after the latest explosion. Please.

The football program is not the highest priority for the University, nor should it be. However, that is no excuse for our football program being less than the best in the country.

It is a bit of a red herring to say that Texas would never hire someone like Stoops if the implication is that, putting winning ahead of all things decent, OU went out and hired an unsavory individual just because he had a proven track record as a head coach. Remember, that Stoops has only and ever been a HC at OU. When the Sooners hired him, he was probably perceived in many ways like Will M. was when UT hired him.
The Sooners were actually on the verge of hiring Franchione when they interviewed Stoops out at DFW. Ponder what might have been.

It’s easy to tout favorable statistical data while overlooking other damning evidence when trying to make an argument for one’s case.

I’m not trying to make excuses for Mack’s faults and I’m not trying to lessen Stoops’ accomplishments either; but when comparing and evaluating the entire scope of a coach’s ability and performance, you must accept all the data.

Yes, we should have more conference Championships and 10 win seasons shouldn’t be the only way we measure success. The point I’m trying to make here is; you have to take the good with the bad. So ask yourself, would you still want Coach Stoops’ 5 additional conference titles if it also meant you must accept his 5 straight BCS loses?

It’s better to lose a BCS bowl than win a Holiday bowl.

“It’s better to lose a BCS bowl than win a Holiday bowl.”

Not always.

Republic, the point is that you can’t win (or lose) them if you can’t get to them.

Actually, scratch that last – you said “Holiday” bowl, and you’re probably right.

"It’s better to lose a BCS bowl than win a Holiday bowl."

Maybe, but 5 times in a row?

“Republic, the point is that you can’t win (or lose) them if you can’t get to them.”

That’s true, but still, we’ve played in BCS bowls 4 out of the last 6 years. Not only that, we’ve beaten OU 4 out of the last 6 years as well.

And OU has won the Conference 4 out of the last 5. I guess the question is which is the better yardstick for measuring success.

Getting BCS at-large bids isn’t hard in the Big 12 if you schedule no hard non-cons and then hold up your 1 loss record and cry on national television. Texas plays 1, maybe 2, difficult games a year if they don’t play for the conference championship. They should be in BCS games.

The horse left the barn a looong time ago.

But the masses were too easily appeased w/ 10-win seasons to see what anyone w/ a pair of objective eyes could see – Mack has done less w/ more. He didn’t earn the moniker “Coach February” for nothing.

Nice to see the majority of the fan base, including the Barkers, to finally see it for themselves.

DCTexasEx said:

December 5th, 2010 at 8:48 am

Mr. Whitney, what you’ve just written is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Amen, brother.

Getting back to the “goals” aspect of the conversation, I wonder if the administration has really committed to the idea of hard, practical, championship goals. I still get an impression that some influences are viewing this through some sort of entertainment/sales/corporate filter. Where this is really as much about the marketing instead of the product itself. The brand is not suffering from bad packaging and placement. The brand is suffering because the product is defective. Scipio says it much more concisely. 7 to 2.

I’d love to see some no-bullshit leadership. But Alabama culture is not the model of interest. I want to PRODUCE the best team, not buy or misappropriate it. We’ve got to do better than dumb aggression and a willingness to play at escalation. I want Special Forces, not just the most vicious mercenaries we can afford.

The keyword here is merit. We should want people who have a relentless interest in transforming anyone in the program into the best, and staying at the top of their field. Todd Wright and Dr. Randa Ryan are good examples. But we need a whole staff of people like that.

If you really really want win you’ll cheat. Texas doesn’t cheat, OU does. But if you look at our overall head to head. Good beats evil.
Now Whitney, we defintely have superiority problems that keep the program down over the history. We’re Texas- you are not, so even if you beat us you can’t be us. Which is true to some extent, but that dampers the fires that burn to go kick ass. Notre Dame has the same problem but even worse.

I certainly agree that Mack Brown has underproduced .

However, for me at least, “Stoops- 7, Mack- 2” is really not the basic issue. I don’t particularly care about Stoops, or Oklahoma, or the Red River Shootout.

I don’t even care about the increasingly inaccurately named Big Twelve. Or its championship.

What I care about is Texas crushing every opponent in a devastating, relentless, and visually entertaining manner that emotionally emasculates the opposition’s players, coaches, and fans — including the female fans, who following their team’s loss no longer trust their ovaries to function properly until such time as they become Texas fans instead and can bear children to former or current Longhorns.

The reason Vince Young is the leading demigod of Texas football isn’t that Texas beat Oklahoma, and Brown trumped Stoops, in 2005.

It’s that he led Texas to a national title against USC — the most over-hyped, sickeningly egocentric team in many years — in what was basically a home game for USC, in which USC had two Heisman winners in perfect health.

It’s that Young, a quarterback, outrushed Bush, the running back who beat him for a Heisman, by 100% in head-to-head competition, and out-passed Leinart, the other Heisman winner, while he was at it.

And Texas, the team to whom nobody in the media gave a second thought, won the greatest bowl game in history.

That’s what I’m talkin’ about. And with the resources Brown has available to him, Texas really should be in national title contention every single year.

Count me in the category that is glad we don’t have a total institution commitment to winning football like Alabama.

I am sorry I am part of the reason that happened…

As for he Conference championships hose who have rings get to keep them forever. You win the conf you get a ring and you are the champion for that year forever. My def line coach had one and it was impressive. Coach Defries who I was lucky to meet this weekend had a few on his hands but choose to where the big gold number 1 he got with Fla.

You dipshits who rationalize away our failure are just that :dipdhits. 7-2 rules.

We blew 2-3 South Championship buy losing to Aggie and KSU if we did not tank them we would and should have made this a 4-5 5-4 number but like this season and the CU implosion , a team we drilled earlier in the year was imploded! Some of you guys are forgeting the WSU melt down and the 2 throttles by OU by 60 points. Mack and GDGD bought time with Vince ( A Freak) and Colt/Ship but they pissed it all away and I frankly resent GDGD acting like he has been wronged. Sign of arrogance and entitlement things we already have plenty of around Belmont .

Fire his ass and get on with it. The whole PC touchy feeling shit kind of rings true. It was exemplified by a student interviewed a teh Hex rally: " Its all fun I hope we win but its ok if we don’t" We’re Texas we fool ourselves into thinking we a good. We are arrongant an sloppy.

Once again Scip you do outdo yourself.

Great post.

I was sick to my stomach hearing “Texas” fans saying “Go OU!” What a joke!

As much as I hate Stoops, the man is a great coach and a way better coach than Mack. I hate to say it, but it’s undeniable. Bob has run circles around Mack, with half the talent base to work with it.

It doesn’t matter what kind of character you have as a coach. I’m no football expert and have no idea what it takes to run a successful championship program, but I think you have to have these qualities. All great coaches, irrespective of character qualities, contain these traits. They all recruit well, work extremely hard, develop their players (players get better through their four/three years on campus), and put their players in position to succeed.

Simply put Mack doesn’t have all of those qualities. The reason why Stoops has clowned is that Mack doesn’t develop players. How many players have gotten better during his tenure? How many players have come out of nowhere to be studs? I can only think of like two. Quan Cosby, and McCoy. Everyone that was great, was a highly recruited player. Compare that with Stoops. He made Travis Lewis, a three star running back out San Antonio, into an All-American. He turned an unknown QB out of Oklahoma into a top 5 pick (Sam Bradford). He won a conference championship with a wide receiver under center. He had a midget terrorize the Big 12 for four years (Quentin Griffin). I can go on and on.

Compare that with some of Mack’s great players. Cedric Benson had one of the greatest careers in Texas high school history. Chris Simms was the number one recruit in the country. Vince Young (you know the story). Roy Williams, Cory Redding, Jordan Shipley (before the knee injuries he was best wide out in Texas), Derrick Johnson, Rod Wright, etc. Pretty much in order to be a great player for Texas under Mack you had to be the best player in the country coming out of high school.

.Mack turned the number one recruit in the nation into the one of the worst QBs in the Big 12. Sergio Kindle was supposed to be the greatest defensive recruit in history. He finally turned into a stud his senior year. One of the best running back recruits in the state of Texas has turned into a third string full back (Chris Whaley).

This idea that we haven’t won enough under Mack is due to him being too nice or not being asshole enough is just dumb. What your public persona is and how you project yourself to the media has no bearing on how good of a coach you are and how good of a program you have. The traits that I mentioned above are what makes great coaches. Look around the country and see who the best programs are now. They are all led by men with different personalities. You had Pete Carroll at ’SC, with the surfer boy, California cool persona. Jim Tressel is boring and senatorial like and is close to the vest (pun intended). Nick Saban is a grating asshole, Urban Meyer is a competitive control freak who runs a prison. Chip Kelly is weird and a prick. Bob Stoops has more chins than Mack has conference championships, etc. They are all different in terms of personality, but I guarantee you all those coaches have all those traits that I listed above.

One thing that I have noticed is how everyone fan base refuses to acknowledge their coaches character/personality flaws until they start loosing and then blame that as the reason why they are loosing. ‘Most ’Bama fans refuse to acknowledge or won’t admit that Nick Saban is a Grade A asshole and a douche bag. They will jump off a cliff for him. They think his edginess towards the media and his shambolic treatment of players is a neat idiosyncrasy. Once they start loosing they will blame his jerk behavior as the reason. Same thing with Urban Meyer. Florida fans don’t want to acknowledge that Meyer has an out of control program, is a jerk and that he is so competitive that he will recruit a player who he has no use for just so a rival won’t have him (John Brantley). Now that Florida has gone 7-5 they are questioning his character.

Houston Texans’ fans love to trash Kubiak for him looking away during important plays or field goals. They see that as a sign that he is a pussy and that is why his team plays like pussies. If the Texans were winning they would view it as a cute idiosyncrasy.

Bobby Bowden was the classic example. Everyone loved his “awe shucks” demeanor and Southern attitude and his “dad gummits.” FSU fans ignored that his program was out of control and how he pretty much did nothing during the games. Go watch the old FSU games in the ’90s. He hardly ever put on a headset. Once they started loosing they started to point out all of those traits.

Once a great program declines or fails, the reason for that failure is not due to that coach’s idiosyncrasy. It’s generally due to that coach failing to recruit, work hard, develop his players, or put his players in a position to succeed. Please don’t mention Mack’s used car salesman act as the reason why we only have 2 conference titles in 13 years. It’s because Mack doesn’t develop players and doesn’t put them in position to succeed. Meaning he doesn’t have a good offensive coordinator.

Anybody that thinks that the reason we haven’t won enough under Mack, and throughout our history because of some institutional ideal that we need a coach with great character and be a statesman like figure is wrong. We simply haven’t made enough good hires. Think about it. The last forty years we have had 2.5 decent coaches.Royal, Akers (.5) and Mack. Other programs have had way more.

I think one of the reasons why Mack views a 10 win season as a success is because before he got to Texas he coached at North Carolina and Tulane. At those programs just having a winning season is a cause for celebration. It’s in Mack’s coaching DNA that winning 10 is enough. He got used to finishing second to Bobby Bowden and no one at UNC really cared. He was going 10-1 with a loss to FSU and that was good enough for the Tar Heels. Fact is, Mack has always been the bridesmaid in his coaching career. He, like most humans, gets satisfied with success and does just enough to reach that success. Changing offensive coordinators won’t change his goals.

Once Mack got to UT, his goal was to restore the program’s pride and start winning big. He did that and we were comfortable because we forgot what true success tasted like. We were comfortable with the 10 win bullshit. I was. Now we aren’t. If we somehow ran the table after the Nebraska game, most of us would have been happy with the season.

Human’s are naturally complacent/lazy and Mack is really no different.

Hey Scipio

Is there a limit on the length of posts? I posted a really long reply on this thread, but it’s not showing up. It is there under my profile activity, but it’s not here.

After reading this article and the majority of these posts, which I happen to agree with, maybe the illness is still in the system and the only cure is the replacement of Brown. No way that’s going to happen unless Mack volunteers, at least not anytime soon.

The only thing worse than countering Stoops’ overwhelming superiority in conference titles with Mack’s consecutive 10-win seasons (obviously dead now) is the “yeah, but Stoops flops in BCS games.” I mean, so what? He’s got 7 friggin’ rings with damn near every type of QB imaginable. Non-NFL talent QBs (Huepel, White, Thompson), NFL future star QB (Bradford), Who Knows (Jones). OU’s dominated the conference. Plain and simple.

TXStampede, I don’t respect anyone stupid enough to invoke PC, but I’m glad you brought but DKR.

Because even DKR recognized that times were changing. In 1963, he noted that reverse-psychology did not work on his new recruits. He noted that when he entered the coaching profession, coaches thought they had to get their players so keyed up that if they weren’t crying in the lockerroom before kickoff and at halftime, coaches thought that they hadn’t done their job. You used to have to get them ready to play that flag on Iwo Jima, he said, but that was no longer the case. Coaches that kept their players loose were finding greater success.

And I’d like to find anyone who thinks a middle linebacker doesn’t need keys any more.

I also know that DKR himself coached beyond the point when the game had passed him by. When he retired, Texas was still recruiting in places that had been hotbeds of talent twenty years earlier, and his offense was a sargasso sea for NFL prospectives.

Switzer was a corrupt bastard, but he was an adaptive corrupt bastard. Each generation of players brings their culture with them. You adapt to it or you can be a fucking loser.

Take your pick.

Stoops plays to win.

Mack plays not to lose.

That is why it is 7 to 2.

Let’s set aside the liberal vs. conservative dichotomy for a minute.

How about holding players and coaches accountable for their actions? If you fail you get called out. No emotional safety nets. No clapping. You can be a hard ass without becoming Pellini. When you coddle or reward players or coaches with poor habits, lousy work ethics, a lack of desire, etc., it leads to failure. There is no doubt in my mind that there has been too much of that in UT’s football program. If we want to win, we can’t be too concerned about hurting the feelings of players or coaches. Neither can we make excuses for failure and reward it.

Some of you will and some you won’t this argument. That’s fine. I find it compelling. Now, if you extend this argument of how to structure a successful football program to the question of how to structure a successful society, maybe you you see where I think Mike Whitney is coming from. Except he is doing it in reverse. He starts with how he believes successful societies work and extends that to football programs. Now you don’t have to buy the argument. But at least understand that his appeal to political categories is not gratuitous. It is an internally consistent argument. If you accept his premises you are inexorably led to his conclusion. If you reject his premises, it wouldn’t be surprising if you came to different conclusions.

Obviously, I think he could have made the argument without resorting to political imagery. Perhaps more of you would have accepted the argument without his overt red herring.

Two unrelated points:

1. Mack has had incredible resources that he could have done more with. He is like the Yankees of the 1950’s with only one World Series title instead of six. What might have been. (And yet, it hasn’t been TERRIBLE.)

2. I would still take our (UT’s) last ten years over OU’s. I would not make that trade. I’ll take the National Championship, the two other BCS bowl wins, and the four other bowl wins, over OU’s conference championships and bowl losses.

Bowl wins bring revenue to the program while Conference championships don’t.

Now if this thread didn’t expose the most ridiculous fans in college football history, then nothing will. Oh, but it has. I admire a lot of you coming on here and finally seeing the light, or at least finally ADMITTING you’ve seen it. Using that 10-win argument over winning a Big 12 title but losing in the BCS was getting a little tiresome, and frankly unbelievable. And once again, huge props to those who aren’t afraid to call a spade a spade. Those fans I refer to as “ridiculous” have been more-than-adequately spoken for by their ring leader GigoloJoe—folks, I can’t make this stuff up:

“I would still take our (UT’s) last ten years over OU’s. I would not make that trade. I’ll take the National Championship, the two other BCS bowl wins, and the four other bowl wins, over OU’s conference championships and bowl losses.”

I can’t tell you how meaningless that Sun Bowl win was to me as an OU fan last year—I was so jealous of Texas being in the big game, because win or lose, it means so much more to a program. National exposure, bright lights, water cooler talk—all eyes are on you, and recruits want to be showcased on the biggest stage. Period. You don’t think that helps Stoops that he’s played in more BCS title games than anyone else? Kids want to know they can make it to the big dance—they don’t care about Sun Bowls, Holiday Bowls, or Cotton Bowls. And I as a fan couldn’t give two shits either—it’s just another reason for me to watch my team one more time. Honestly, I don’t care about other BCS games either—I care about conference championships and national championships, because that’s what they are, CHAMPIONSHIPS. You’re a champion of something—you were the best in your league or in the country. As a Sooner fan, I want that opportunity, win or lose. If I win the Fiesta Bowl, it means I won another game—I wasn’t THE BEST at anything. I want my team to be the best, and I’m sure you do too. We bested the Big 12 seven times, and we proved on the field we were the best in the country as many times as Texas has under Mack. I’m sure the rational fan knows which they’d rather have.

Oh, and if it’s any consolation GigoloJoe, if OU beats UCONN in the Fiesta Bowl, they’ll have as many BCS game wins as Texas too. Someone made the best point earlier—you can’t win or lose them if you don’t get there. I’ll take my chances with Stoops.

On January 10, 2005, which fan base felt better, Texas’ or OU’s?

On January 10, 2009, which fan base felt better, Texas’ or OU’s?

On the whole, over the last ten years, which school has FINISHED better, Texas or OU?

Whatever our complaints about Mack, UT fans have ended seasons happier than OU fans more often over the last ten years.

We ain’t happy NOW.

Fuck a bunch of happy. 7-2 is bad.

Mike Whitney is right about one thing: McCoy above Street in the ring of honor is a travesty. Just one more example of MB trying to one-up DKR in the legacy department. Colt is definitely a puss compared to James.

I agree with every single thing in this post, though it does seem that Stoops/OU catch the breaks and seem inordinately able to back in to the title game via tiebreakers (2008/2010) or with 2 conf losses (2010) or in years when they lose to Texas (2006/2008). The 2-game collapse to end 2006 based on the fateful QB sneak still almost bothers me even more than 2008.

GigoloJoe,

I’ll give you 2005—what a great year. But by using your rationale for 2009, if losing in the BCS title game constitutes a fan base feeling better, than OU wins that battle too (3 to 1). And from 2000 to 2010, OU has a better record than Texas seven times (there’s that # 7 again), so what do you mean by finished? Are you talking about winning meaningless bowl games that recruits don’t care about? Once again, if I want to play for national championships, I like my odds with Stoops—sure he’s lost his fair share, but winning Big 12 Championships gives you that chance more times than not. That’s a proven fact. Texas could be 10-1 in BCS games, but we’ll never know because THEY CAN’T GET THERE. Not to mention going 5-7 in a year under Mack with his recruits and losing 5 home games should count for three more notches for Stoops (I’m being generous). Anyway, I’ll accept that you think Texas has had a better last 10 years because you hate OU—at least that makes more sense. But try taking off your burnt orange glasses and read what you’ve been writing—it’ll set you free!! BOOMER SOONER!!!!

World, the positions we are taking are both rational and defensible; it’s just a matter of which one a person prefers.

In total, I prefer the last 10 years that UT has had. I can point to the NC, the two other BCS bowl victories (Michigan and tOSU), and the other second tier bowl victories (Cotton v LSU, Holidays v Washington and ASU) and the Alamo over Iowa (that’s the runt of the litter, agreed).

OU fans can point to the Big 12 Championships (2002, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2010), and Championship Game (2003, 2004, 2008) and BCS appearances (2002-win over WSU, 2006, 2007) over the past ten years. That is a very fine last ten years also, and one could rationally say that’s the better slate of the two.

Just me, personally, I prefer UT’s 2001-2010 run though. Even including horrible 2010.

P.S., when I referenced 1/10/05 and 1/10/09, I meant the aftermaths of:

OU vs USC and UT vs Michigan (which occured in January of 2005)

OU vs Florida and UT vs Ohio State (which occurred in January of 2009)

Well if you exclude the 2000 season, then I would have to agree with you—I would take Texas in a heartbeat with the national championship in ‘05. Maybe we should take Stoops’ career versus Mack’s career, all seasons. OU has a Holiday Bowl victory, Cotton Bowl victory, and Sun Bowl victory, so you can forget the second tiers—UT has played in more, but the quality is comparable. That’s a wash. OU has played in more BCS games, but your BCS victories are heads and tails better—no argument here. OU has seven Big 12 titles, UT has two under Mack—so with your 3 BCS wins and OU’s 2, the margin is a lot slimmer between conference titles and BCS wins, but we’ll call that a wash with your quality of victory. I’m feeling generous today. So, let’s say everything’s pretty close between the two programs—flip a coin, you’re doing pretty well. However, the one thing that puts OU on top is your 5-7, no bowl appearance season. That is unacceptable. Even if your schedule was treacherous it wouldn’t be accepted, but maybe forgiven—you had seven home games, and your only two wins were over Wyoming and FAU. Please think about it—Bob’s stock soared the first half of the decade, and Mack’s was sky-high the second half, but they’re not even sniffing the same side of the graph now. As long as you’re including 2010, you’re a homer if you’d take UT over OU during Mack’s and Bob’s reigns.

On the whole, over the last ten years, which school has FINISHED better, Texas or OU?

The answer to that question is resoundingly OU. This is the whole fucking point of Scip’s post, and it went straight by you.

The years where there’s no reasonable dispute are 2000, 2002, 2003, 2006, 2007, and 2010. Those are years where OU either went to the national title game or won the Big 12 title while UT was on its way to a non-BCS bowl game (or no bowl at all). In 2001, OU went to and won the Cotton Bowl while UT went to and won the Holiday Bowl. In 2004, OU won the Big 12 title and got curbstomped in the national title game. UT won a great game in the Rose Bowl against a Michigan team who had no business in the Rose Bowl. Congrats! Here’s your consolation prize. You’re still 2nd best.

Bowl wins bring revenue to the program while Conference championships don’t.

WRONG. Bowl APPEARANCES bring revenue to the CONFERENCE. Conference championships ensure BCS bowl game appearances. What brings revenue to the program is prestige and wins.

UT, it appears, is doing something that is at least 6 years overdue. Any OC who can take Vince Young, El Ced, and the offensive talent that 2004 group had and not score a point in their biggest game of the year needs to be fired ON THE SPOT.

While I generally agree with the point of Scipio’s post, the one caveat I would add is that if the roles were reversed and we had won 7 conference championships to Stoops/OU’s 2 and we had not won a MNC for 10 year, gotten the shit kicked out of us by Boise, West Virginia, and every other BCS opponent we had recently faced, the bitching on this site would certainly not cease for a 10-2 year with a loss to aggie. I would also point out OU has had two 8 win seasons since their MNC.

The same idiots would be on this thread talking about how we need to play for national championships, that anything less is unacceptable. That conference championships shouldn’t mean crap with the advantages UT has in a weak conference.

"It’s better to lose a BCS bowl than win a Holiday bowl."

It’s better to WIN a BCS bowl than lose anything.

“Colt is definitely a puss compared to James.”

Neither one of these guys are pussies. Get a grip….

BTW, Pelini has already been to the Big 12 championship game twice now in what three or four years and Mack has made it 4 in 13. Forget Stoops, he would of had Pelini crawling up his ass, especially with some of the talent he is claiming from Texas.

Goodfellas is IMO the best mob movie of all time. The use of music in the movie is as good as it gets. So I think Scipio’s point is that the Score in the movie is better than the 7-2 score? Bamboo Lounge = 2010 Texas Longhorns?

Great article 7 and 2 indeed!

Just think, a few years ago during the last coaching search held on the ugly urban 40 acres, an unknown DC named Bob Stoops was on your short list for hiring. You guys decided to pass for the established “name” and now you’re writing articles on how this estalished name can’t win championships unless led by a mega personality at QB.

Boomer Sooner!

But douche, it’s so cute watching YOU try to think.

We Longhorns have some bones to pick with Mack, but all in all we are glad we chose him in 1997. Between him and Bob, I still go with Mack.

You are crazy. If we had chosen Stoops back in 1998, we would have certainly won more championships.