A Kansas Jayhawk Looks At Rick Barnes And Texas Hoops

Compared to Bill Self, yea, Rick Barnes comes up short. But would UT really be better off with someone like Turgeon at A&M, who runs a well-coached and disciplined program with a Sweet 16 type ceiling b/c of his inability to recruit top players? Who out there is coming to Austin with a better track record than Rick?

If Rick gets canned (which probably will not happen), who do we look at to fill the vacancy? I have to assume we are ranked as an elite basketball school that would attract a big name

Look, we’re obviously not canning Barnes, so that doesn’t matter. But if Barnes said fuck it and took the NC St. job, who are we thinking? Jay Wright? Mark Few? Brad Stevens? Just throwing names out there. I really have no idea who we’d be capable of getting.

We’re not an elite job. We can’t fill the bottom portion of the arena for conference games!

Rick doesn’t deserve to be fired. He took an unranked team in the pre-season to the Sweet 16 if it were not for a ref. that can’t count to 5. I’m not a big fan of his right now but to think a big, established name would jump to come to Texas seems off to me.

Barnes will be gone when he retires, sans a losing season next year perhaps. His win percentage is good, and he gets to the tournament. As angry as he makes me at times, is firing someone because they didn’t win the title in a 68 team tournament a good enough reason? As my name implies, I wouldn’t mind a fresh start in the coaching position, but perhaps we can start with firing the assistants. Maybe he needs stronger support in the staff overall.

Let’s move off the should he be fired nonsense. He’s not going to be fired.

I’m more curious about what his widley perceived shortcomings are, whether they are accurate and if so, whether they are addressable.

OK, this meme has got to die:

“And yet, somehow, some way, against an Arizona team that plays less defense than just about any team I’ve seen all year, all Texas could muster was J’Covan Brown driving left, getting fouled and knocking down free throws. "

Brown’s offense was the most efficient scoring possible. Something like 1.5 points per possession. There was no reason to stop going to that well. But I guess that efficient offense doesn’t count b/c Rick Barnes is stoopid or something.

I’m not sure getting rid of Barnes is the answer. While the season ended in classic Barnes fashion, he showed a commendable willingness to grow as a coach in the early portion of the season.

As a horns fan, my hope is that Rick is able to continue growing as an in-game manager and technician on the offensive end. If he has to go study an NBA system again over the offseason, great. If he needs to hire an assistant coach who can help him with X’s and O’s like Steve Lavin did, fine. If he wants to knock out 2 birds with one stone and hire Jerry Sloan, be my guest (why wouldn’t a surefire NBA HOFer want to come be our assistant?).

I don’t think it’s worth throwing out the things that Barnes does well in the hopes of finding more of a talent maximizer. I do think Barnes needs to continue honestly evaluating his coaching performance and attempting to grow.

And b/c I can’t let this go – why do Barnes haters get so hyperbolic when discussing him? No offensive game plan? really, none whatsoever? Do you really think that Barnes just forgot to do that this week? In fact, there was a scheme, but it wasn’t very effective. Some of that was on Barnes, some of that is on his perimeter players, who missed by my count 5 open threes in the first half. If they convert 3 of those, it’s a respectable 34 points.

Last thing and then I’ll end rant – Barnes seems cursed by people assuming that his teams’ talent is much higher than it is. I like J Ham a lot, but his outside shot comes and goes, which is a big problem when teams pack it in defensively. Brown has attitude issues and is very streaky. CoJo is an impressive freshman, but not yet someone capable of consistently getting his own offense. This was a very young team, and none of the star players are considered lottery picks (TT might get there next year). This team is talented, and we should have beat Arizona, but let’s not pretend that the players were flawless just to pin this all on Barnes.

All – I would NOT be in the “Fire Barnes” camp. I’m just pointing out that he has some pretty glaring deficiencies and had he been able to overcome those this year, Texas could have really made a run. At this point, I’ve lost hope that he will, until I’m proven wrong.

MW – I didn’t say it didn’t work, or even that they should have gone away from it. But the fact that it was the ONLY thing working, against an Arizona defense that hadn’t stopped anyone all year, is a problem. And if their offensive gameplan was really to just let J’Covan create, they probably should have gone to it a little earlier.

tjarks, I kind of addressed it in that tweet, but Rick Barnes is a top 25 coach, even though he’s recruiting in top 10 talent every year (or at least every other year). There’s 10 coaches I would take ahead of Barnes based on track record alone (the Tweet list: Self, K, Roy, Cal, Billy D, Izzo, Matta, Calhoun, Pitino, Boeheim). That’s not accounting for the up-and-comers like Brad Stevens, Josh Pastner, or Sean Miller, or the comparables like Jay Wright, Mark Few, Jamie Dixon, Tom Crean, Mike Brey, etc.

I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that, but at this point it’s fairly obvious that Rick’s going to need a VY-like transcendent talent to take him to the next level. Can Myck Kabongo be that guy? Cameron Ridley? Julius Randle (fingers crossed)? I don’t know. Maybe. Like tjarks said, at least we’re recruiting top talent and churning them into the league. That’s TV eyeballs and good pub.

As a digression, when we talk about underachievement, it’s all relative. Would you classify Mack as a top 10 coach that brings in top 5 talent? Why our both our profit sport coaches like this? But that’s a discussion for another time.

As for who would replace Barnes, that’s an academic discussion. But if you’re looking at a model template for success, look no further than two football-first powerhouses: Ohio State and Florida. Both went to a lesser-known well for its superstar coaches. Matta was the HC of Butler and Xavier. Donovan had moderate success as Marshall’s HC, prior to that he was an assistant under Rick Pitino at UK. Is it easy to hit a home run hire like that? Obviously not; you could just as easily end up with a Billy Gillispie-type. But I think if you’re going coach-hunting, I’d rather be looking at someone like VCU’s Shaka Smart rather than an existing treadmill like Wright or Few. Assuming Brad Stevens is a pipedream, of course.

H -

I just find it odd that a lot of people, not just you, won’t give Barnes any credit whatsoever for exploiting that weakness. And some people (I guess not you, but others on this board) act as if it’s a disgrace that we had to “resort” to scoring with at about the highest rate you can possibly score. Running j’drives to the basket might not be the most sophisticated offense, but if it scores practically every possession, then it’s the most effective thing you can do.

Also, I disagree that it was the only thing working. Texas did a much better job freeing Hamilton in the early part of the 2d half, and he hit some critical 3s to get UT back in the game.

Texas sports are in a much different place than in the summer of 2006.

Fair enough. I think I’m still just in awe of how little you guys were able to do on them., though I did like the start of the 2nd half. I thought it would be close, but I never thought you’d have trouble scoring. Wasn’t there like a 13 minute stretch in the first half that you went without scoring in the half-court (only points were Hamilton dunks on fast-breaks).

Let’s move off the should he be fired nonsense. He’s not going to be fired.

I’m more curious about what his widley perceived shortcomings are, whether they are accurate and if so, whether they are addressable.

Great point, Drew. I think the biggest issue is Barnes’ inability to marry his young talent with upperclassmen-laden development. The puzzle pieces never fit quite perfectly. It’s one thing to nitpick at freshmen deficiencies (omg! Avery Bradley wasn’t all-world! F&*!), but it’s another to point out where Barnes failed in developing his 4-year guys. Look at the list of recent graduates: Matt Hill never really became anything more than a big body, Doge never learned to shoot, Justin Mason and Jai Lucas regressed significantly since their freshmen years, Dex had no post moves, Abrams never developed a PG mentality, Atchley died without Augustin’s pick-n-pop. This futility to coach up players to mesh with his talent underclassmen is frustrating—the two recent exceptions being Damion James and Gary Johnson.

Contrast that to someone like Self, who seemingly manages to get upperclassmen contributions every year. Marcus and Markieff Morris, Sherron Collins, Mario Chalmers…even take this year’s roster. Look at Tyrel Reed and Brady Morningstar’s freshman to senior year comparisons. Then look at Matt Hill, Jai Lucas, and Doge Balbay’s. The difference is astounding.

“Wasn’t there like a 13 minute stretch in the first half that you went without scoring in the half-court (only points were Hamilton dunks on fast-breaks).”

Yes – and I think there were 2 reasons for this. First, Barnes’ game plan was to get the ball to T-squared in deep post position, which would lead to an easy T2 score, a foul (hopefully against Williams), or a panicked double team that left players wide open in spots where they can score efficiently. In retrospect, this was a mistake. UA did a great job pushing T2 off the block (often using that huge white dude), so they could pick and choose when to double and with whom to do so. Not surprisingly, they often used Balbay’s man, and TX was often stymied offensively. The other problem, though, was that Texas just missed a lot of open shots. As I mentioned above, our 3 outside shooters – Ham, J’Brown, and that midget guy – all missed wide open 3s that Texas got through running their offense. If TX had hit 3 of those shots, it wouldn’t have been a disaster. Even so, Barnes made some good halftime adjustments and the team’s offense took off almost immediately. It eventually settled into letting J’Covan drive every possession, but, as I mentioned above, that was a great strategy because AZ couldn’t figure out how to stop him.

Finally, to show that I’m not Rick Barnes’ mother posting under an assumed name, I’ll note that I do think Barnes has real flaws. He rides his players too hard, and asks too much of them in terms of minutes, especially freshmen. He’s too quick to pull someone for a mistake or an ill-advised shot. His recruiting philosophy undervalues shooting vs. athleticism. These are problems that I hope he’ll address in the future, but they’re far from fatal, IMO.

Also, H – why do you think AZ was an awful defense? KenPom has them ranked at 71 in defensive efficiency. Not great, but certainly not terrible.

one thing very much on Barnes which the players have to ask themselves is why in the hell is there not a double or even single screen to inbounds the ball. That alone was terrible. It really showed this team’s mentality which I think is a reflection of Barnes. They don’t know how to win the big games which is where Barnes puts his stamp. He instills confidence and they practice these things so that it becomes instinctive. They battled back defensively and one man willed it offensively to win this game but when they needed a goto play or winners mentality, they fell flat…which is what happened at Colorado, Nebraska and Kansas State. This team needs to practice on all facets of the game and leave nothing left to chance. I wonder if when this team comes back, are they going to be able to lock it down at the free throw line? If not, expect to give away a few other tightly contested games.

mw: FWIW, it was second-worst among the top 20 seeds (Vanderbilt was 90th), and 14th among the 16 remaining (Butler and VCU).

Good point, jc25, I’m on board with you there with his talent development. Every season, there’s always a spot on our roster that is a glaring hole (e.g., Dogus as an offensive liability, Justin Mason in the past, Wangmene next year if he starts, etc.), and that hole seems to always be upper classmen that never develop.

I give credit to Barnes for making halftime adjustments. He seems to do well when given some time to think and discuss his adjustments with his assistants. What he DOESN’T do well is making adjustments and calls on the fly. Our team seems to regress to old habits on offense or not run any offense at all when we start losing a lead. And we don’t even need to discuss the bone-headed timeout at the end of the Zona game which led to the 5-second call. This can be blamed on Barnes or his assistants. I don’t know how much he listens to his assistants during games.

So this Texas team was unranked in what . . . 9 of the 10 preseason polls. Seems like Barnes overachieved this year.

justhookit- there’s a difference between overachieving relative to your potential and relative to the expectations you’ve created.

They were only unranked because pollsters really only consider what you have coming back. The Big12 preseason coaches poll told you what real basketball people thought about Texas.

Barnes is a good ol boy, just like Mack, plain and simple, so these traits are obvious:

1) he won’t replace his main cronies/assistants until push comes to shove. So I don’t see him bringing in a top assistant coach who isn’t already in his good ol boy circle.

2) he has a short fuse/pull trigger, doesn’t admit being wrong too often and is stubborn as a mule.

3) there will be crucial times in games where he will freeze and seriously not know what the fuck he’s doing.

You can’t change people like this, they’re good ol boys for a reason. Yeah, with enough push from above, they’ll make changes such as Mack did this year; and yeah, yeah, he studied Utah’s offense and implemented it some, up until February basically when he went back to his stubborn ways.

UT basketball fans are in a tight spot because they know they can’t really do better than Barnes right now, the UT basketball job isn’t a top 10 job, we’re not getting anyone better than Barnes right now unless you take a flyer on an up and comer (ex: Stevens).

He’s not getting fired and has earned another year but if next season ends the same (losing the team end of season, pitiful gameplans when it matters, etc..), then hopefully some feelers are sent out.

Stevens would be the top choice of any program that doesn’t think more of its pedigree than wanting to win (Duke, UNC). But based on what he has said, he is going to be very careful about moving. Think Mark Few.

There are no sure things when you hire a replacement. Therefore, as frustrating as it might be, it makes no sense to look to replace a guy who wins 25 games a year, makes the tournament, and recruits the kind of talent that Barnes still brings in.

First, despite my many hyperbolic comments yesterday I would gasp in horror if I pulled up espn and it had a headline about Barnes being fired. Unless he insists on running a motion offense with Kabongo.

Second, mw, his strategic blunders are too many to count, game to game. In the first half the sub pattern was bizarre. We started out so well, and Barnes single-handedly killed our momentum offensively. Second, and I mentioned this yesterday, the move to the motion-offense made no sense when we had three capable penetrators and a big, physical, if offensively raw, big man. By the post-season tourneys JHam looked scared to put the ball on the floor, and only drove to the bucket when he had no one in fornt of him or off a screen. This neutralized our biggest offensive advantage and turned our best, most versitle offensive player into a jump shooter in our deciding game in the tournament. It was as if Barnes was coaching to give Bobby Knight doing color something to talk about during the game, rather than coaching to his players strengths.

And to respond to Hiphop’s categories, Barnes is worse than either 1) or 2), he’s 3) the coach who seems to come into a season with a plan he’s unsure of and will abandon at the first sign of trouble, and then selects schemes haphazardly without considering the strength of his talent or the weaknesses his opponents. My favorite all-time Barnes moment was when he installed the 2-3 zone in 2004 after playing Syracuse in the tournament, as if to say “wow, this 2-3 zone is awesome; why doesn’t everyone use it?” He just doesn’t seem to have convictions or strong opinions about the strategy of the sport.

That said, the best retort to my Barnes-bashing is that he proved pretty definitively this year that he can coach defense well on an individual player basis. This was not the case 7 years ago against Syracuse—in fact, I might even go so far as to say that 2011 Rick Barnes would have beaten 2003 Syracuse. The improvement with JHam this year on defense was impressive, as was the defensive production he got out of he freshman, who certainly had the tools, but were at a minimum very raw coming from a highly touted AAU pipeline.

Bottom line, he just needs to hire a skilled assistant to install, and more importantly teach, a better offense. But I’m guessing that won’t happen unless he feels some heat, so I don’t feel bad letting myself get a little worked up. But I’m not holding my breath for anything to change because this is Texas and no one cares about basketball. Speaking of which, I should holdup my end of the bargain and make it out to a few more games next season before I go throwing too many stones.

he won’t replace his main cronies/assistants until push comes to shove. So I don’t see him bringing in a top assistant coach who isn’t already in his good ol boy circle.

Our assistants may not be the best in the business, but I’m not sure you’d call them Greg Davis Texas-sized holes, either. At the very least, they’re all recruiting rainmakers.

Rodney Terry is the longest tenured assistant head coach and is said to be responsible for the Canadian pipeline (Thompson, Joseph, Kabongo). He’s been linked to a couple of HC jobs this off-season (Lamar and Bradley, according to Coaching News Online), and has had feelers from the likes of UCF and UH in the past.

Russ Springmann has been here a while but only a few years as an assistant coach. He’s the rainmaker credited with the Durant-Augustin-James triumvirate. I mean, he named his child “Durant”!

Chris Ogden is the newbie (he replaced Ken McDonald, who took the WKU job), and he came in and landed Avery Bradley. There’s high expectations for him, and Kenton Paulino is also waiting in the wings as a special assistant.

Then there’s Todd Wright, widely reputed to be one of the best in the business when it comes to S&C.

I’m not sure that the “cronies” complaint is valid.

Hipho, thanks for the analysis. Doesn’t mean that one has to agree with EVERY bit of it to recognize it as an honestly offered, good faith look at Coach Barnes from an outside perspective. I do think you made some valid points.

Good luck to the Jayhawks the rest of the way.

Appreciate the analysis, Hiphop.
’
Good luck to KU for the rest of the tourney.

jc, was a little general there re: “cronies”. I’m well aware of Russ/Terry/Springman/Wright. I was referring to the other 12 guys in suits. I guess you could say I was making excuses for Barnes and not jumping directly to calling him a moron like others have. If the “coaching” assistants are not giving him better input than what I’ve seen, it’s obvious he needs someone to help him or be in his ear in the “bonehead” situations; or if they are and Barnes isn’t listening, then he is an idiot. It’s either one or the other; now if the whole staff is seeing what Barnes is seeing re: strategy, schemes, in game situations, etc….then we have bigger issues…

Are any of our assistants known for their X&Os capabilities? They all seem like they’re just recruiting rainmakers.

it’s great to see that Barne’s is a great defensive coach but we narrowly beat and lost to two teams not known for their defense. I’m trying to think what Barnes teaches these players above and beyond what their talent and experience dictate?

Barnes isn’t above criticism. This team has NBA talent on the floor and has been experiencing difficulty for the last quarter of the season as well as the first two rounds of the tourney for the past few years. The players change but the meltdown is the same and that’s very much on Barnes. Nobody can name any of the players on North Carolina yet they’ve advanced to the Sweet 16 and found their momentum at the end of the season when teams want/need to peak.

Barnes, Great Defensive Coach, but to a fault.

At halftime vs AZ his main gripe was the defensive play, when I thought we played great in the half court. Most of our defensive breakdowns were due to the self-inflicting TOs on offense.

He made a concerted effort to overhaul his approach to offense last year. I hope he realizes it will take more than one season to reap its benefits and we see gradual improvement the next few years on the O as he learns what works and what doesn’t.

Then I hope he’ll move to Barnes, Great Coach.

Hoya/Some guy

Right. My comment was pretty much tongue-in-cheek. But I am sorry pretty much no one thought this team was a lock for the top 25, regardless of what freshmen we were bringing in.

To claim otherwise is revisionist history.

I’m pissed about how the season ended, but part of the issue with what we should have expected from this team in the tourney comes from the fact that for about a month, this team played some amazing basketball and probably were playing at a level that was above their heads.

This was a borderline Sweet 16 team that got screwed in their seed, played an AWFUL first half against Arizona, and then screwed themselves and got screwed at the end of the game. In other words, about what we should have expected.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog?name=bilas_jay&id=6246470

Bilas was not that rough on us – Like this Knight quote (general quote not about Barnes)

“Dumb loses more games than smart wins.” — Bob Knight

Word is old Hickory Barnes is at NC State interviewing right now. He is gone as Texas coach….just wait…i’ve heard this from numerous NC alumni.

http://www.theesportsblog.com/2011/03/22/rick-barnes-sighted-at-rdu/

Brown = underrated on defense.

Kabongo is a really good defensive guard. He’s quick and willing which is all you need.

“mw: FWIW, it was second-worst among the top 20 seeds (Vanderbilt was 90th), and 14th among the 16 remaining (Butler and VCU).”

Both of which are playing outstanding defense in the tournament so far. So it’s possible to overachieve for a game or two.

I wasn’t able to pay too close of attention to the game. Does anyone think Arizona played good defense in the first half?

Hiphopopotamus said: March 22nd, 2011 at 1:27 pm

“All – I would NOT be in the "Fire Barnes" camp. I’m just pointing out that he has some pretty glaring deficiencies and had he been able to overcome those this year, Texas could have really made a run. At this point, I’ve lost hope that he will, until I’m proven wrong. "

If Bill Self or Roy Williams before him consistently lost their star players to the NBA after their freshman or soph seasons, KU would be in the exact same situation as Texas. Where would KU be this season if the Morris Twins had bolted for the NBA after their freshman or soph season? Add in one or two of their senion guards and you have Texas with LaMarcus, Gibson, Augustine, & Durant gone after 1 or 2 years.

KU, N. Carolina, Duke, Florida and Mich. State would not have their National Championship trophies if they had experienced the same.

In the interest of full disclosure, I don’t know basketball. More accurately, I don’t know much about the activity that people refer to as “basketball” in 2011.

I do, however, know something about evaluating managerial performance.

In that regard, track record – results – is mostly a red herring. Results will always be subject to more variables than any manager can count, let alone quantify. Ultimately, the only thing that any leader can control is the process, and it’s process that should form the body of work on which a manager’s evaluation is based.

In other words, whether UT makes the Elite 8 or loses its first game to a 12 seed, what’s most significant is whether Rick Barnes’ coaching, game planning, substitution strategy, and leadership are such that the team regularly enjoys a competitive advantage in those areas.

I hate underachievement. Not underachievement as measured by results, but as the product of undisciplined, incoherent, half-baked process. I hate underachievement like Mark Cuban hates sophistication. Like Oscar hates Quentin Tarantino. Like Muammar Ghaddafi hates Tomahawk missles.

But I’m a realist. Rick Barnes won’t be leaving involuntarily – at least not anytime soon. Secure in that knowledge, I wouldn’t look for him to make much substantive change to the way he manages the program.

Instead, as the guest author intimated, it’s time to accept the fact that it’s unrealistic to expect Barnes’ teams to play – except for intermittent, unpredictable, and all-too-seldom episodes – as if they were well-coached.

We’re not an elite job. We can’t fill the bottom portion of the arena for conference games!
___________________________________________________

Salary, facilities, recruiting base, AD support, and other factors make Texas a pretty damn fucking good job. It doesn’t take long to call the list of better ones.

AD suppor? I’m sure most schools that are serious about winning have that. JC I agree with you. It’s obviously not a good idea to replace Wright/Terry/Springman but the other guys in suits who seem Romney yes men. What exactly do they bring to the table? Get someone in there that is a respected and not a former player/cronie

*mainly not Romney

Trips – He might be fine. Josh Selby is quick and willing also. But he still loses his man. It’s awfully rare a freshman guard comes in and has a big defensive impact – particularly if he’s also asked to lead the team on the other end.

Joseph – Perhaps. But the difference there is that the Morris twins weren’t big time players, particularly not ones coveted by the NBA. Self and Manning turned them into the players they are today.

4 years ago, KU lost one of their highest ever rated recruits and two-year starter in Julian Wright. All they did the next season was win the national title. Last year, KU lost their AA PG, their AA center (to early declaration) and their top freshman ater just one year. This year, they’re a 1 seed and in the sweet 16. It can be done, if players are developed.

Gigolo/BOW – My pleasure, always happy to contribute and discuss over here. Someday, I’m hoping we can even have a lively football discussion. But I fear my school won’t afford me the same relevance, for quite a while.

If Bill Self or Roy Williams before him consistently lost their star players to the NBA after their freshman or soph seasons, KU would be in the exact same situation as Texas.

This is probably true. However, that is not Self’s nor Roy’s coaching philosophy. But, it is Barnes’ way of coaching. He even said last season that his goal is to put players in the league, not to win championships. Mission accomplished.

Are Texas fans ok with this? Because it sounds like the season worked out according to Rick Barnes’ plans. Showcase the individual talent at the sacrifice of the team.

Barnes is just another in the long list of coaches who get blamed for doing less with more: Olson (until Bibby/Simon took over his ‘96 team), Boeheim (until Anthony single-handedly won him a title), Lou Henson, Calipari, Williams (until he moved to NC), and now Dixon. Much of the criticism is warranted. Barnes has many strengths, but his in-game adjustments are on par with Greg Davis’.

Thanks for the contributions H.

“4 years ago, KU lost one of their highest ever rated recruits and two-year starter in Julian Wright. All they did the next season was win the national title. Last year, KU lost their AA PG, their AA center (to early declaration) and their top freshman ater just one year. This year, they’re a 1 seed and in the sweet 16. It can be done, if players are developed.”

I think you are hitting on things here. You guys lost Julian Wright, but still had five 5 stars (Rush, Collins, Chalmers, Robinson, DArthur) and a three 4 stars contributing the following year. You can make up for lost players if you have a ton of talent waiting in the wings to make up for it. We made the Elite 8 as a 2 seed the year after losing Kevin Durant so we’ve seen the same thing happen.

Good coaches can also have a ton of talent and fail in a single elimination tournament and appear to not know what they are doing. See Self’s game plan against Northern Iowa last year. I still thought Self was a good coach after that game and as long as he can bring in rosters with multiple 5 star recruits, he’ll get you to the promised land again in the near future.

4 years ago, KU lost one of their highest ever rated recruits and two-year starter in Julian Wright. All they did the next season was win the national title. Last year, KU lost their AA PG, their AA center (to early declaration) and their top freshman ater just one year. This year, they’re a 1 seed and in the sweet 16. It can be done, if players are developed.

KU starts two senior guards and three juniors. Texas starts two seniors, two freshmen and a sophomore, and its next best player is a sophomore.

The key to next season being great instead just good is keeping both Thompson and Hamilton. Even then, the seniors they have will be just a little better than role players. That is on the coach.

“Nobody can name any of the players on North Carolina yet they’ve advanced to the Sweet 16 and found their momentum at the end of the season when teams want/need to peak.”

There’s a good way to lose your audience. Nobody’s heard of the number 1 player in the freshman class and expected top 5 draft pick?

Hiphop: It’s beating a dead horse, but Kabongo is a legitimately great defender. He’s not just “quick” or “willing,” he actually knows how to play defense. Required at Findlay. And excellent point about the Morri. Definitely developed because of great KU coaching. Same with Brady and Reed. And Robinson. And Johnson. And Little. Taylor is the only player that regressed, but he’s back on track now when it counts. Thanks for your opinion; I agree with most of what you said (especially regarding Barnes’ offense). I do disagree about Arizona as a defensive team. I expected them to be terrible, but their perimeter defense is actually pretty good in the way KU’s is. They pressure the ball, push people off their dribble, prevent easy ball rotation, and are extremely physical. Plus they’re all huge, which is where KU “fails” and has to rely on the Morri/Robinson to play great help defense and block shots. Zona doesn’t have that and thus you see Covan dominating toward the latter part of the game.

Barnes will not be fired!! That’s the bad news.
I think you have to look at several things when it comes to Barnes.
1) Texas never seems to peak at the right time (conference tourney and NCAA tourney) Texas has been the best team in the country the last two years over a 2-3 week period of time during the season. In neither case did Texas maintain that edge. In 2009-10 they went from great to barely mediorce in a matter of 2 weeks. In 2010-11 they did fall as fast or as far as they did the previous year. I thik this has to do more with coaching than it does with players and talent
2) Barnes recruits very well but can not seem to get his better players to stick around more than one year for the exceptionally talented. Some of the talented guys stay 2 before they opt for the big pay day. This has to do with the talent that Barnes recruits they seem to have a different focus in life, like being selfish all for me type players. Basketball factories like Duke, Kansas, most of the Big East schools don’t seem to have as much problem keeping its star players around a year longer. I attribute that to the coaching. Texas players must not feel they are getting much in the way of coaching to help them improve their basketball skills. While players at the basketball factories probably feel like they are learning skills that will help increase their pay in the pros.
3) Barnes coached teams never seem to get positive official calls. How many times have you seen Duke, Kansas, NC, and most of the Big East shools feast on poor officiating against their opponents. Anyone that doesn’t think officiating in college basketball is a major consideration in who wins must have never watched a college basketball. So why doesn’t Barnes’ teams get more of the good calls particularly when playing those teams in the same echelon as the Longhorns?
4) Barnes will never take Texas to a NC. Is that even his goal? I never hear anyone talking about Texas and a NC except for a few diehard fans. To win a NC that must be the goal. You don’t accidently win a NC
Texas can stay with Barnes and have a tantalizing basketball program that flirts around the fringes of greatness, or they can fire him, buy the best college coach available (Texas has the money to buy any college coach they want) and start going to the final four 4-5 times every decade.

What would be required, in order for us to keep NFL-caliber talent around for another couple of years?

Do we need to create a CPA program? That’s College of Professional Athletics, not some other “CPA” – a course of study in which the student learns how to be a successful professional athlete. How to handle the money so that it lasts a lifetime, and not just the glory days. Seventy-eight percent of all athletes entering professional sports have careers lasting less than five years. Most of those athletes are broke and nearly unemployable when that happens. The University of Texas College of Professional Athletics, there’s nothing else like it.

Or whatever.

Dick – That’s true about 08. But after that year we lost 6 of our top 7 (3 of which were early entrants). And in 09 we won the league and went to the sweet 16 with Collins (big contributor in 08), Aldrich (played sparingly) and a bunch of people nobody had ever heard of. And then we spent 2010 at #1 pretty much the whole year. I agree it’s largely about stock-piling talent, but it’s just as much about developing that talent and the lesser knowns. Let’s just say that very few (myself included) figured Brady Morningstar would not only start this year, but be a necessary component to us winning.

Blake – I laughed at that comment as well. When has anyone not heard of anyone on Carolina, let alone this year? As for Kabongo, I’ll defer to you all, as I’ve never seen him play, and won’t until he steps on the floor in November. I certainly can’t argue with the defense I’ve seen from freshman out of Findlay lately. But I’ll be awfully impressed if he’s able to lead the offense as beautifully as he’s being expected to, and can be a good defensive guard. That’s a lot to ask from a freshman (insert Rick Barnes running his freshmen into the ground joke here).

First off, kudos to the quality and knowledge of the posters here. I’m continuously amazed that I read and reflect on not only the article, but almost every post.

Second, I would argue that we are a top 10 program under Barnes. Yes, we’ve underachieved with the talent. But a poster on the InsideTexas site recently ran an analysis scoring advancement in the NCAA tourney for every school in the Barnes era, where you earned more points as you advanced. Texas finished 10th. And I think only 3 of the teams ahead of us had qualified every year. He then looked back at the Penders years, where we finished in the 20s. Might I remind you of the Wheltlich years prior to that.

Barnes has done a helluva job in elevating our program. Given our focus on football and pretty pathetic Erwin center turnout, I’d say he’s swimming upstream.

Can he improve? I hope so. Seems like he took a major step with the Jazz benchmarking last season before he seemed to regress. Maybe he’ll continue that introspective vein and do a better job coaching next year. Add PG-dynamo Kabango, the Barnes apparent special sauce, to the mix next year, and I’m buying.

My theory of why Texas peaks early and then fades down the stretch is that it is because Barnes emphasizes defense much more than offense and is a much better defensive than offensive coach. Playing defense is much more tiring than playing offense. Playing offense is much more fun and interesting than playing defense. Developing your offensive game is fun and stimulating and you naturally want to work on those skills. Playing defense is painful and boring.

By the end of the season of playing super intense man to man defense (especially with a short bench), the horns legs are shot. The teams that focus more on outscoring their opponents with a slick offense are not as fatigued by the end of the season, either mentally or physically. It is hard to force yourself to bend those those legs and move your feet night after night. You have to be very disciplined mentally to put out that intense defensive effort. It is much easier to glide around in a zone or at least play fewer minutes or less intense man to man defense.

The teams that focus more on offense, get better and better as the season progresses. Barnes’ teams plateau offensively around mid season because he does not focus much on offense. This allows other teams to eclipse the horns.

The emphasis on on defense over offense probably contributes to players leaving the program early. Once you have learned how to play defense and gotten in good physical shape, what more does Barnes have to offer? He is not going to help you much with developing offensive skills.

Why stick around if it isn’t fun, you are always dog tired from playing super intense defense, you are not developing your offensive game, and the team consistently fails to meet March Madness expectations?

Hiphop: Great point regarding young guards wearing down over the course of the season at UT. It was inevitable with Gibson because he was basically our only playmaker on the perimeter and had to do everything plus guard the opposing team’s PG. Bradley really hit a wall and it completely ruined his offensive confidence as well as diminished his off-ball defense, though I can’t honestly say I ever saw a second when the guy wasn’t giving a hundred percent despite some fellow Horns fans’ ample attempts at revisionist history on that front. Joseph looked dead at the end of the season and in the conference tourney, but I thought he looked better after the week off heading into the NCAA. Hard to judge how much was the stage and how much was fatigue.

Kafka: Very true about defense in general. Some great, great stuff in there. And that’s why I’ll never understand the “Defense wins championships” mantra in basketball. Yes, usually you have to play good defense to be extremely successful, but it’s not like football where the sides are (almost perfectly) split in importance. Basketball skills revolve around offense. A great offensive team with lackluster defense is going to score a lot and occasionally make a stop. I’d rather have my offense fueling my defense because you can always play hard on defense if you can motivate yourself, but you can’t just “will” yourself to make shots at a high rate.

And that is exactly the problem with Barnes in the past: we are trying to fuel our offense through defense and rebounding, but we haven’t lately (years, not days) been playing up tempo and we don’t run an offense that predicates itself on being able to get easy buckets if our players aren’t psyched and ready to go J’Covan Beast Mode. Get out in transition and make it easier for yourself. Don’t let Covan walk the ball up off a rebound and don’t let Gary wait 5 seconds before outletting a pass. Get the break going!

Kafka, I think you may have hit on a basic problem with the Texas program. Overwork. The team peaks early because they are working really hard in preseason camp and during the season. You point to Barnes being defensive minded as the reason for that. Could be. Your point is reasonable. However, you can overwork people on the offensive end too.

Texas’ offense looked great at the beginning of the year. Crisp cuts. Good ball rotation. They hit tough shots. it was a joy to watch. I think Barnes in what ever way was overworking them. Probably in practice but also in how he uses them during games. Many people on this blog have noticed the large numbers of minutes the guards have been playing. Eddie Reese is very big on avoiding overtraining. Sometimes it is best to hold off on intensity until the most optimum time. For basketball that may be late February.

Most of our scoring early on was based on jump shooters. The first thing to go when you legs are dead is outside shooting. You have to be able to stabilize and elevate to shoot well. Jordan, J’Covan, and Cory haven’t been able to do that consistently since late January.

If Rick Barnes was a jockey, his horse would always be leading after the third turn, and it would always finish 10th or so. This has always been an issue with him. Remember that last Clemson team, that was ranked #2 in the country at one point, and then completely flamed out? Sound familiar?

I agree with most of what you all are saying. I think we all know Rick isn’t a great offensive coach, but he can very much get past that when he has great players. My question is, is he really a great defensive coach? If he’s really emphasizing it that much, where are the results? Other than this year, I only remember one year (2006) that Texas was a really good defensive team.

Remember that last Clemson team, that was ranked #2 in the country at one point, and then completely flamed out? Sound familiar?

He killed that team in practice, just like he killed his first Texas team, when Eddie Reese intervened. At least a couple of players announced they were likely to leave, but stayed when Barnes left.

I don’t think this is that bad, but it’s clear that he believes that defense can make up for offensive deficiencies. Nothing else would explain him coming out of halftime and saying that they needed better defense. He was wrong about that, because Arizona scored 36 in the first half and 34 in the second.

My question is, is he really a great defensive coach? If he’s really emphasizing it that much, where are the results? Other than this year, I only remember one year (2006) that Texas was a really good defensive team.

He hasn’t been able to do it like Self, that’s for sure. But I still think he’s very good. The last four years he’s been handicapped by a number of things, whether it was an entirely new team (‘07), playing short guards without a shot-blocker (’08-‘10), and either an unwillingness or inability to play help defense (particularly last year, but also in the previous years. Add in the usual roiling of consistent turnover, and it’s hard to maintain.

That ’06 team had Aldridge to clean up the mess and three upperclass starters. Experience makes a difference.

Barnes only wins big when he has a star penetrating point guard. Otherwise, the “offense” is usually stagnant. They just slowly pass the ball around the perimeter, often getting passes picked off because they are so predictable. Knight was right about several things:

1. They don’t have good spacing. They have trouble getting entry pass down low and often have too many bodies standing around in the area. Also, TT is slow to respond to the double team. Also, it seems to me that the guard does not move to a good angle for a 3 after passing down low and his man goes to double, allowing his man to sort of guard two people at once.

2. The “offense” regularly has players handling the ball at the top of the ark with ZERO ability to score (e.g. Balbay, Hill, etc.). This allows that defensive player to pack down or rove the floor in help defense.

3. Annual display of horrible FT shooting. This is big in tight games. Why don’t they teach these kids that a line drive that barely makes it over the front of the rim has less chance of going in than a shot with more arc? I would make a mobile plexiglass barrier that would force the players to shoot the ball over it with some arc.

I agree with previous posters concerning a short leash. One bad pass and you are benched. Obviously, Brown is not the most disciplined player in the world and often reaches on D rather than move his feet. But, is there any question that he is better than Balbay? At least he forces the other team to be honest on defense, he has a good shot, and can shoot free throws. Now, his head seems to be messed up for the rest of his time at UT.

Rarely do you see efficient two man game with pick and roll. Rarely pick and pop, rarely roll to the basket with return pass. But hey, maybe that only works in the pros with defensive 3 seconds, I am not a coach.

Rarely do you see a lot of movement without the ball and good screens.

Poor fast break. How often do we see breaking the press and pushing up the floor for easy basket vs. breaking the press and then pulling back for half court offense. Or worse yet, the frequent offensive fouls due to not spacing properly, lack of ability to stop and pop, and not making the extra pass.

IMO, the reason Hamilton is so inconsistent with jump shot is that he takes so many contested shots. He usually makes open shots. He doesn’t get those shots because of lack of good screens and lack of good passes coming back out from down low.

It is pretty sad when your best offense is offensive rebounding.

All this being said, they play decent man D and always make the tourney. I am still a big fan, but it is just like Mack Brown. Would you rather go back to days of a mediocre team or have a guy that recruits well, but isn’t really that great a coach on the field?

“Barnes only wins big when he has a star penetrating point guard.”

This meme is always ridiculous. Who is winning big without great guard play?

Bob nailed it on Barnes’ team’s defensive issues. Looking back at the stats, KU really has been amazing defensively over the past 10 years. I wasn’t aware that yall had been that good. I now give you the right to criticize.

“star penetrating point guard”

Florida 2006 and 2007. Are Lee Humphrey or Taurean Green starting NBA point guards?

Blake B: "There’s a good way to lose your audience. Nobody’s heard of the number 1 player in the freshman class and expected top 5 draft pick? "

Any player of the year candidates on that squad? I don’t think that UNC ever gets players that aren’t somebody’s. Texas had a lot more buzz all season while nobody was really talking about UNC or their “number 1 player & top 5 draft pick.” How high do you think Jimmer’s going to go in the draft? He’s the one most are talking about besides Walker and since the NBA drafts on potential, there’s no telling where he’ll go especially since Morrison was a bust. Kendall Marshall has really been a difference maker for the UNC though. Didn’t think I’d have to bring this up to someone so knowledgeable.

yeah, we’re sort of grasping at straws here….“well Barnes just needs an all american point guard and then it’ll work!”. Yeah, who the hell doesn’t need one of those.

Don’t pile on KU fans, Rick is the best we can do because I think the school is fine with just making the tourney every year and flirting with the sweet 16/elite 8 every few years…also, I think DeLoss knows any “big time” coach wouldn’t come here based on the fan support and playing 2nd fiddle to football. It’s frustrating as hell for the hard core basketball fans but it is what it is….

I heard a good one on 104.9 the Horn this morning, Butler’s coach Stevens is the anti-rick Barnes.

Really Barnes is a perfect fit for the Texas program, he will always have a respectable team and provide acceptable product (top 10%). Pretty much matches the low attendance of the fans. I have noticed in games that at least 25% of the crowd comes late with 25% getting up for snacks in the middle of the game….can you imagine that at Duke, Kansas, etc.

If you want to see talent optimized and a high quality basketball team (over high quality talent) this is not your program to watch. Rick recruits great players (with good character) and does get the players to play hard….not sure he trains them to play smart and there appears to be limited focus on the Minuit details of teaching fundamentals ala John Wooden/Bob Knight/Izzo/Coach K, etc.

lurker said:

March 24th, 2011 at 11:02 am

"star penetrating point guard"

Agreed, great coaches can win with different talent mixes. Bob Knight with Isiah Thomas (NBA point guard) and with Keith Smart (a non NBA talent).

All the talk of Barnes as a defensive coach is a little misleading. Yes to the fact that the kids hustle on defense, no to teaching sound fundamentals ( I do not think Damion James ever blocked out on a defensive rebound) or coming up with game specific plans.

Tex, I don’t think you can play defense they way they did this year without teaching fundamentals.

"star penetrating point guard"

Magic Johnson, imo.

“If Bill Self or Roy Williams before him consistently lost their star players to the NBA after their freshman or soph seasons, KU would be in the exact same situation as Texas.”

Between the end of last season and the start of the NCAA tournament, UNC lost:

1) their only returning senior to a second “team-rules violation”
2) twins to UCLA to a sudden transfer
3) their back-up PG (former starter) to a February temper tantrum
4) their back-up SG to a shoulder injury

UNC starts two freshmen, two sophs, and a junior who missed his first two seasons. They bring two sophs off the bench. That’s basically their tournament rotation.

Talented? Yes. Well-known kids? Sure. Sort of like everyone knows Garret Gilbert. Doesn’t necessarily mean anything, does it?

SI put together some interesting charts for the Sweet 16. The 3 teams with the fewest minutes played by juniors and seniors – Arizona, UConn, UNC – are all still playing.

Sorry, you can’t play that excuse with Barnes.

Barnes certainly has holes but people forget how close run a thing it is to win it all.

If Memphis could hit free throws, people would be saying the same shit about Bill Self. Took a miracle three at the gun to get that one.

Cant win the big one. Couple that with some embarrassing tourney flameouts from KU and I am not sure how much difference there is there. Roy Williams had some crushing losses at KU and had to leave to win big. I would argue that at UNC he is able to pull in one or two more studs that put him over the top. For both Self and Williams I always thought the criticism was largely bullshit. There is something to be said for getting there all the time.

For Barnes, if LA or Durant had stayed one more year are we even having this discussion? Hell, if PJ Tucker could hit the front end of a 1 and 1 we go Final Four.

I think his biggest flaw is that for whatever reason his recent teams have hit a wall in mid-February. Either we are thin or working too damn hard in practice but this team was a step slow compared to what I saw in Lawrence and against aggy in the regular season.

He needs to probably have another conversation with Eddie Reese about tapering workouts to be at the razors edge heading into the tournament. Some of his good teams were peaking late in the year but that last few years not so much.

Offensively, we suck at spacing the floor. The remaining teams in the Elite Eight all seem to have that part of the game down very well and I do think that is coaching. If we ran our half court as efficiently as Butler or VCU we would still be playing.

BarnesBurnout:

By and large, the loss of Graves, the Wears and Larry Drew amount to taking out the trash at UNC. The loss of Bullock appears to be an insignificant factor.

In any event, Texas beat this team.

Further, Barnes has already taken a team much like it to the EE (2008).

Your argument that Barnes coached inadequately would be strengthened had he coached to what was expected, as opposed to raising expectations stratospherically by winning at KU and running off 11 double-digit wins in the B12. Instead, they had an excellent season — probably the fourth-best he’s had at Texas after 2003, 2006 and 2008 — with an incredibly deflating ending. Pitt, Ohio State and Duke also are on that list.

Besides, the roadside is littered with young teams that get this far, and even as far as the NC game, but don’t win the toga. The closest thing to Syracuse ’03 is probably Florida ’06. We may have another this year, but right now it sure looks like Kansas to me, and they are another veteran team with good young support.

 It’s one thing to be critical of Barnes for apparently wearing the team down, and coaching inadequate offense. It’s quite another to say that he is incapable of producing nationally competitive teams. He literally gave away the game Sunday — that’s a different issue.

You make me feel better, Bob, but I’m still not buying.

Good coach? Absolutely. An elite coach? Nope. I’ve seen too many UT teams — including this one — play their best basketball prior to the NCAA tournament and the personnel on the team not develop into confident, by-God-let’s-get-it-done players. Maybe last year’s team meltdown is too fresh. And, too, the year-long J’Covan love dance — in, out, in, out — that ultimately ran its course against Arizona as “he’s our offense.” Where was THAT all year.

Until he finds the right buttons to push — the players, the practices, the schemes, the in-game strategies — to have the team playing its best come tournament time, I’ll remain skeptical and hope he proves all us nay-sayers wrong.

TT signs with an agent, according to this: http://www.nbadraft.net/draft-buzz-3.

There goes that dream. Anyone think we get out of the first weekend next year?

Guess two years with Rick was just too painful for TT to consider staying another year. (Insert Barnes rant here.)

Brad Stevens seems either to have found people no one else knew (or cared) about and/or done a helluva job of developing and/or be an exceptional team-building coach. Just got done watching Butler/Fla and mighty impressed with how the Bulldogs played. If the coaches had swapped teams and taken a week or two to prepare, Stevens still wins, but by about 20… so it seems.

My thoughts, too. I loved his timeouts late. His team has just played so smart, right to the final buzzer when they rebounded and then lobbed the ball up court as time expired. I found myself comparing the way that team plays and the way you-know-who’s team played. Guess it’s all easy for us second-guessers.

Until he finds the right buttons to push — the players, the practices, the schemes, the in-game strategies — to have the team playing its best come tournament time, I’ll remain skeptical and hope he proves all us nay-sayers wrong.

I’m actually more on your side when it comes to the tournament. He needs to prove something there that he hasn’t done in a long time.

“Any player of the year candidates on that squad? I don’t think that UNC ever gets players that aren’t somebody’s. Texas had a lot more buzz all season while nobody was really talking about UNC or their "number 1 player & top 5 draft pick." How high do you think Jimmer’s going to go in the draft? He’s the one most are talking about besides Walker and since the NBA drafts on potential, there’s no telling where he’ll go especially since Morrison was a bust. Kendall Marshall has really been a difference maker for the UNC though. Didn’t think I’d have to bring this up to someone so knowledgeable.”

So “player of the year candidates” now equals “players that people can name.” Gotcha. Sure, those ARE a lot alike. There are five teams that have POTY candidates, BYU, UConn, Zona, Duke, and tOSU. What was the point of this conversation again?

“I don’t think that UNC ever gets players that aren’t somebody’s.”

Is this a way of saying that UNC recruits good players? I agree. Players. That. Every. Body. Can. Name.

“How high do you think Jimmer’s going to go in the draft?”

Haven’t seen a mock draft yet that doesn’t have him top 20. Most have him in the lottery and many in the top 10. Still don’t see the point of this conversation…

“He’s the one most are talking about besides Walker and since the NBA drafts on potential, there’s no telling where he’ll go especially since Morrison was a bust.”

I get it now. One white POTY candidate does poorly in the NBA so the next white POTY candidate loses draft stock. Makes sense to me! I always thought stuff like position, playing style, athleticism, and, like, skill were overrated in the draft convo anyway. Race is definitely much more important.

“Didn’t think I’d have to bring this up to someone so knowledgeable”

You really didn’t, it wouldn’t have made any sense to a less-informed basketball fan either…

Butler’s still in it as is VCU. Ever heard of any of their guys? This is Butler’s second year even after losing arguably their best player. Jesus, I live in ACC territory and went to a grad school at an ACC school that is still in the tourney and nobody was talking about North Carolina most of the year. Strangely, I do know this being a fan of my grad school. I made a mistake saying nobody knew their names but I’m pretty sure if I asked around, most people couldn’t name the players on the team after Tyler, Lawson and Ellington left the program and all of Duke’s success last year and with returning most all their players. And I certainly didn’t think they’d still be playing today. But thanks for being a general douche about it. I learned that much at least.

Can anyone recommend a good link to watch online?

Can we get an post on Bill Self?
A cakewalk seeding wise and they choke again.

When can we expect you write up on Self’s masterful coaching job having a team with that much talent and losing to an 11 seed in the regional finals?

Barnes had three really good offensive players in Thompson, Hamilton, and Brown. An undersized power forward in Johnson,a freshman guard who is at this time is a good but not great player in Joseph a defensive liability in Lucas, and offensive liabilities in Hill, Doge, and Wangemene. I won’t claim near the knowledge some of you had but it seemed to me that this was a Texas team that wasn’t overly talented and had to be playing on all cylinders to advance.

They lost to a fairly decent UA team and whlle Barnes screwed up the end of the game I do want to know how KU has that many Micky D’s AA, that many guys who will be in the NBA in the next year or two and they never got close to one last place at the end of the game against an 11 seed after having their biggest halftime deficit since 1940. Has a #1 ever lost in this big an upset in such a big game?

@Davey O’Brien Yeah - UCONN George Mason. It was basically the exact same game: seeds, underdog’s conferences, loser was clear favorite to roll the rest of the tourney, flow of game, everything. It’s about as deja vu as you can get.

So at KU Self has had first round loss to Bradley, first round loss to Bucknell, second round loss to Northern Iowa and Elite Eight loss to VCU. Last two years as a one seed.

Without Mario Chalmers saving his ass all we would be hearing is about how Self is a huge choker, and with quite a bit of justification.

Texas has had some tough losses in the tournament but most have been to real tough high seeded teams that went deep. Syracuse, Memphis, LSU, Arizona.

Self definitely has a big pelt on the wall, but some of the flameouts are epic.

VCU isn’t a cakewalk. John Thompson said it first before the tourney started (before they played USC) that nobody want’s to play VCU in the tournament. Living in the area, it’s true. Getting Mason, VCU and even Richmond (whose getting better and better) isn’t doing anybody any favors in their bracket. These are teams that do more with less and more importantly, keep their core players playing together for four years.

But UA was a cakewalk?

The Self talk is ridiculous. Three words: Big 12 championships.

35-3, Big 12 season and tourney champs and an elite eight appearance. Disapointing finish.. absolutely. But a fantastic season for them overall.

Bulzak, that’s a great point and one of the best points for coaching is Boeheim—took him 27 years to get his first championship and it was a year after doing well in the NIT. Have to stay with Barnes unless his recruiting bottoms out at worst case scenario.

Yeah, that was Self’s 4th elite 8 at Kansas. That’s good despite the flameouts.

UA wasn’t a cakewalk. But UT imploded to lose it. They didn’t get outright beat. That’s what makes this loss hard. Loved seeing VCU inbound the ball with a bounce pass to a cutting Burgess? down the lane for a layup to win their previous game. A lob or direct pass wouldn’t have made it. VCU knocks off UA too IMO. Given the choice, I’m sure they’d have said that they’d rather have faced UA than KU (before they knocked off KU).

I was listening to Roy Williams before the game and he said he wanted to play Kentucky at a 100 mph because as fast as Kentucky is, Calipari probably won’t be comfortable playing that fast and if UNC has to play a defensive game every possession, then it will be harder. It’ll be interesting to see how this game plays out but goes well with what Kafka mentioned earlier about Barnes teams getting worn out playing defensive style basketball.

Ah……so no one in Kansas might be a bit frustrated with KU getting beat by 10 by a team that is play in team?

Oh yes, winning conference teams in a mediocre at best conference is really a compelling argument to offset another disappointing tournament result. This reminds me of the Sooner fans I know that tell me that it really didn’t bother them to lose in the BCS bowl games as long as they won a conference title. Yes, it was better than Mack, but is the measuring stick for a successful program like Kansas with all it’s talent really conference titles?

In regards to Boheim he is a guy who for years never quite reached a title, but coaching at Syracuse in the 80’s, 90’s and 00’s is just a little different than dominating the Big 12.

this is why football needs a playoff.

I’m not sold on experts. I admit to not being one since I’m writing on a free board. If I were an expert, I’d try to roll that into something profitable like all the experts in the studio getting their current picks wrong.

Davey,

That’s a good point too because OU’s coach Capel came from VCU. Laranega stayed at Mason after their success so although he got an increase in money, he turned down more to stay. I don’t know how these coaches will all pan out in bigger conferences but smaller teams have to stress the fundamentals first to get what is given: ft’s should be free points where you can make a team pay twice. Watch all the away from the ball movement that VCU employs to get a guy open for a shot behind the arc. When it’s on, it’s a beautiful thing and reminded me of Texas at the beginning of the season. That’s coaching.

Calipari makes me want to vomit and not because they’re playing Carolina.

kemit,

I have heard Stevens say he is happy at Butler and I think that is a very big point that gets overlooked when you track the careers of guys like Monson and Capel. There are enough good basketball players and the fact it is easy to evaluate talent in basketball than football, they can get very good ball players they know will stay for 3-4 years. Kid comes in, is developed in the system, develops a real chemistry with his teammates, emotionally matures, and don’t underestimate the value of the players not having their asses kissed from the time they were on their first AAU teams.

As pointed out earlier, Barnes does work on fundamentals though it might be primarily on defense. When you know that you are going to turnover a good portion of your roster every year or so how much time do you allocate into developing a true offensive system requiring timing and chemistry.

  Texas is not the only school who has the kids that leave early and that won’t stop if you recruit that level of talent and you won’t stop kids jumping early as long as they have the chance to make the money they do in the NBA. That is why this loss has to be so frustrating for KU. They has 2 sr’s and 1 jr in the back court, the twins are jr’s, robinson is a sophomore, and selby is a frosh. Not exactly an inexperience roster and after the results of the last three tournaments you would have thought they would have played better today.

I am not sure I can watch UConn-KY. These two remind me of the Tressel’s of college basketball.

Please quit posting. I get an email every damn time. Today is not the day.

The bottle in your avatar should be empty, imo.

You did get to hang another conference banner.

Hey, Hip.

“Bulzak, that’s a great point and one of the best points for coaching is Boeheim–took him 27 years to get his first championship and it was a year after doing well in the NIT. Have to stay with Barnes unless his recruiting bottoms out at worst case scenario.”

First off, an obligatory f**k KU.

Secondly, Boeheim’s career doesn’t have jack shit to do with what UT should or shouldn’t do in the future regarding Barnes. As long as Barnes is making a hell of a lot more than Boeheim, a good deal more than Jim Calhoun, and a top-8ish salary overall, he needs to get his ass out of the first weekend more than once in five years.

JMR, has TT signed with that agent yet? Way to fuck up.

Self’s record at KU: 1-3 in Elite 8 games, one Final Four (and NC) in 8 years with never worse than a 4-seed and 4x as a 1-seed. The NC is of course huge, but the rest looks like a case of “glass houses” when critiquing Barnes. In 13 years under Barnes UT has only been a #4 or better 6 times (2 #4’s and 1 #3) and a #1 just once. Just sayin’.

and self hasn’t beaten anyone higher than a 9 seed in something like 6 years. What were the seed #‘s of the teams they beat to get the “title”? oh, and he cheats like a moth*&%$ but that’s another thread…

JMR, has TT signed with that agent yet? Way to fuck up.
_____________________________________________________

LMAO

Did I write the report? Did you have the slightest clue that it was in error before TT’s mother said so several hours later?

Exactly. STFU now.

Did I miss the review of Self masterful job with this year’s squad?

You did not miss it, because I didn’t write a Bill Self post on a Texas website.

However, anyone who thinks Self did anything other than a masterful job this year is kidding themselves. I have no idea why his nerves get cracking in the Elite 8 – it’s painful as hell – but he still did as good of a job coaching as anyone in the country this year. He lost 2 lottery picks, and an All-American point guard and somehow still won both Big XII titles and was a #1 seed. The only reason anyone (nationally) was giving this team any chance at all was because of his big recruit and only McD AA, Josh Selby, who he got next to nothing from this year. The only reason they were anything near the team they were this year was because of Self and his staff’s ability to develop talent. He certainly needs to capitalize more often when he’s in the position he was on Sunday, but there’s not a person in the country I’d rather have running the Kansas program.

I was asked for my UT post-mortem. What I wrote honestly surprised even me, because I’d hardly given it much thought, prior to Sailor’s request. What’s funny to me though, is that everyone who has shown up since last Sunday – namely young Davey here – has concentrated on Bill Self, as if this post had anything to do with Self because I am a Kansas fan. If your defense of Rick Barnes is Bill Self losing to VCU… well, good luck with that.