Jordan Hamilton and Tristan Thompson to Declare for the 2011 NBA Draft

Rough way to start today. Ouch. Thanks for the post, Trips.

Wow. Thanks for the scoop. Even if I want to take it and fling it at you.
 
I don’t see Cory Joseph getting a warm reception from his draft feelers, but I agree with you that it’s hard for Tristan not to go if he knows he’s a Top 12 player. And I suspect he’s something more like #6-#8.
 
Here’s to Wangmene and Chapman having a hell of an offseason.

Great scoop, Trips. Except the news is Charles Barkley turrible. Dammit, bad way to start a Friday.

Welcome to the Myck Kabongo era. But don’t hold your breath, as he’s being talked about as a Top 10 pick in the 2012 Draft.

Cory Joseph will return or he’s dumber than PJ Tucker. He’s not getting PG PT at Texas, but he can develop a killer 3, work on the midrange J/floater, and become a lockdown defensive 2 guard. That’ll get him into the Association. Think a better Avery Bradley.

Jordan Hamilton’s stock is somewhere between late lottery and late first round, so I thought he might just take a flyer and come back, given the uncertainty of the NBA offseason. Oh well.

I was less hopeful for Tristan Thompson, even though he would have partnered with his buddy Kabongo. Dude’s a top 10 pick, and unless you’re Jared Sullinger or Blake Griffin, you declare. Wait, how come miscreants like OSU and OU get to keep their freshmen prodigy big men? Life is unfair sometimes.

Barnes now has his work seriously cut out for him. Jon Holmes and Kevin Thomas better come ready to play. Chapman and Wangmene better have a heckuva offseason. Rick may even go after another sleeper big late in the process that has slipped under the recruiting radar (think Varez Ward a few years ago). Just…ugh.

Also just spitballing, but I’m wondering if the Rodney Terry decision had anything to do with Thompson (and possibly Joseph) declaring.

Marcus and Markieff Morris are leaving Kansas for the NBA as well. I am really surprised at the number of top quality players who are showing no real fear in the upcoming NBA lockout —which by every report you see is going to be an ugly, drawn out fight that will last into 2012.

Good times.

Can someone replace Wangmene’s stone hands before next season?

i figured joseph and tt would wanna play w their boy kabongo. guess not. this sucks

Hope you’re wrong Kevin. Fuck. This. Fuck.

Sup with Deandre Daniels?

jc25 -
 
He was offered a legit head coaching job making 400K + a year.
 
He takes that even if we were returning Michael Jordan and Sam Perkins.

Latest news on DeAndre Daniels: going to Duke. That word is strong as oak. Of course, so was the fact that he was going to Texas…to Kentucky…to Kansas…

http://marchtomarch.fantake.com/2011/04/08/recruiting-roundup-april-8-2011/

Scip, I meant it the other way around. Did Terry leaving spur Thompson to leave? Probably not. Did it spur Joseph to test the waters? Possibly.

Multiple coaches and multiple players – percentage wise this is similar to football.

Texas basketball is a cruel mistress that I tell myself I am done with at the end of every year’s game and team losses that I get pulled back to soon as we start hot and beat a top 15 team. This merry go round kills me.

On DeAndre Daniels, Kyrie Irving did an interview this week that may have been a little too informative. Daniels is visiting Duke later this month then will decide shortly after, but he’s a bit surrounded by Blue Devil alums at IMG

http://www.heraldsun.com/view/full_story/12695138/article-More-Devils-in-the-mix-?instance=main_article

“In assessing next year’s team, Irving said, ‘I think we have five recruits coming in with the addition of DeAndre Daniels. That’s five recruits. So that would be really special.’”

This sucks for the ‘Horns, but I’m with TT and JH if that’s what they want. Don’t know what CoJo might be thinking, unless he’s unhappy and thinks a year in the D-League gets him to the league faster than sitting on the bench as a transfer (purely a “what if” and not trying to suggest he actually IS unhappy). That’s highly doubtful with the lockout though.

I’m just numb to it now.

I’m getting closer to “why bother?” every year.

I counted it up yesterday, after it was noted that Kyrie Irving was the third Duke player to leave early since 1999 (when three left). If I’ve counted right, if Hamilton and Thompson leave, that’s 12 that Texas has lost in the same period.

And while I haven’t stopped to add this up, most of the early outs are underclassmen, not juniors like the Morris twins, or Brandon Rush, or Cole Aldrich, just to name one school with which Texas allegedly competes. Roy Williams got Henson and Zeller to come back, and Harrison Barnes is thinking about it? Really? Why am I not surprised when he convinced the cores of both his championship teams to come back for junior years? But Barnes never has done anything like that. Damion James is the only guy that’s stayed longer than expected, and that turned out to poison the well that was 2010. Barnes pushes them along and figures the next group will be the one that breaks through.

The thing is, Barnes teams always play hard, and he’ll put a representative team on the floor. But I’m going to have to decide how much mental energy to put into this.

+1 to what Bob in Houston said.

It doesn’t cost Cory anything to put out the feelers, so why wouldn’t he?

Well, shit. When I saw yesterday that the Morrii were declaring, I was excited for our Big 12(-2) hopes as well as the tourni. Now I got nothing. In fact, I was getting attached to the team, but this kind of turnover makes that pretty difficult.

This really sucks. The prolonged “Hug and Whisper” between TT and Rodney Terry at the end of the Arizona game was telling after all.

It’s clear the Findley guys are coming here with the explicit notion of being a “one and done”, and Barnes is ok with that. I think we would all probably do the same thing if we were in Barnes shoes, but to Bob’s point you would think we could get a few of the diaper dandies to stick around for another year or two.

We’re not snake-bitten with early entry. There’s a reason that any Texas player that can even sniff the first round is gone. They can’t wait to get away from RB.

I think Barnes has assembled the perfect team…for Tom Penders to coach. I mean, it’s not like he’s doing anything…

don’t really blame either one of these guys for leaving.

the big men staying in college are probably pushing TT towards the draft. specifically Henson and Sullinger. and with Barnes and others still on the fence, TT def climbs the overall draft board. that said, I think he could potentially improve his stock considerably by coming back.

with JH, I just don’t think his stock goes a lot higher if he comes back. while he showed inconsistency in his game towards the end of the season, he did demonstrate that he has the ability to play under control and within the confines of an offense at times this season. he didn’t do that last year. with Kabongo coming in, he won’t have the ball in his hands as much to create. and while he’s a good shooter and a good athlete, he’s not about to become a Steve Kerr or Gerald Wallace. i’m not sure he ever becomes a top 10 pick.

so while it’s a bummer these guys don’t want to come back and “play for an NC,” I undestand their decisions individually. that said, it sucks. coulda been so beautiful.

Frank, the rule is in place by the NCAA that you can only declare once before losing your eligibility.

So it’s borderline retarded to test the waters when:

1) You’re a freshman that’s nowhere near in contention of being a first round pick

2) The NCAA has stacked the deck against its own players, forcing them to return in essentially a week-and-a-half after declaring, preventing you from maximizing the time you could possibly get working out with a variety of NBA teams, scouts, GMs, coaches, etc. to prepare for the next time you’re eligible for the draft

3) There’s the looming specter of an all-season NBA lockout, which yes, would include the D-league, meaning you wouldn’t be playing basketball at all in the states next year

4) You have the potential to get good enough before your senior year to test the waters and see how things are going then

But hey, if Cory thinks playing for Tel Aviv or Olympiakos is a stellar idea, then by all means declaring this year is the way to go.

Findlay Prep doesn’t have any big men for you coming out this year?

Per Adam Zagoria:

Former Texas & St. Raymond’s star Terrence Rencher is leading candidate to replace Rodney Terry at Texas, source tells SNY.tv

Ook…

By Rob Lanier you mean Pat Knight right?

Ok, I am officially renounicing my fanhood for all men’s college basketball. At this point I am only a Texas fan, but after watching the worst tournament in NCAA history, and having watched a decade’s worth of unexpected early departures from my Alma Mater, I have hit rock bottom. I honestly think I might be able to deal with the NBA, or even the lady horns. Seriiously, listening to Craig Way call LAdyhorns games is an ongoing inside joke between me and my brothers. We imitate his play-by-play by intensely shouting- “Nina passes it to Tiffany, she’s got no where to go, back out to Stacy, crosscourt pass to Becky, and then 15ft jumper clanks off the backboard and rims out!!!!!!” Seriously, that is less humiliating than this bullshit. what is the deal with texas this year. Do our teams not have heart? I feel like my worst fears are being realized: the Dallas Cowboys’ demeanor, lack of passion, and lack of intelligence is extending south down I-35

TexLaw said:

April 8th, 2011 at 11:14 am

We’re not snake-bitten with early entry. There’s a reason that any Texas player that can even sniff the first round is gone. They can’t wait to get away from RB.

Think about it, its the worst of both worlds
- No organized offense
- and you cannot shoot without being yanked
- It does not seem like fundamentals of shooting and blocking out improve while under Barnes

Hopefully open assistant coach positions will be used to hire someone with some X & O brains

Dang it man. Why would Jordan Hamilton go pro. No way he gets drafted in the firsst half of the first round. He played his worst 10 games of the season… the last 10 games of the season. I just don’t freaking get it. this is like CJ Miles declaring for the draft coming out of high school… and being drafted in the 2nd round, and now playing for the Clippers’ developmental team: the Bakersfield Rabbid Prairie Dogs, or whatever the fuck. So dissapointing that this is where we are right now. To think, 2 months ago, I was as excited as I have ever been about UT’s basketball program

I’d say the reason UT seems “snake-bit” by early entrants is, if you’re a top prospect and you care about the college basketball experience, why would you come here? It is what it is. The Erwin Center isn’t Phog Allen or the Dean Dome. The types of guys Barnes gets are the type who just want to make the L, so when they’re ready to go, they go.

jc, regarding Europe, these slots are limited, and every player in the NBA, not just this year’s rookie class, is going to be looking for an opportunity over there.

We’re not snake-bitten with early entry. There’s a reason that any Texas player that can even sniff the first round is gone. They can’t wait to get away from RB.
 
Except for the fact that all of our biggest NBA stars are huge Barnes fans and spend the offseasons working out in Austin.
 
Can we as a fan base not make shit up to fit our own little narratives for once?
 
Barnes issues are obvious enough. We don’t need to falsify new ones.

espn has been projecting Hamilton as a late lottery pick since December. it’s not a deep draft.

and CJ Miles have averaged 25+ min/game this year with the Jazz. he’s averaging 12+ ppg.

I think Barnes has cred with recruits because he tells them to go pro when they’re in the lottery. the obvious downside of this is that our players never come back when they’re projected for the lottery.

unfortunately, I think tjarks is right…not a lot keeping kids here if they’re not having fun. and I don’t remember the last time I saw one of our players having fun.

I guess this all started with Maurice Evans.

Yes, our players are all miserable. This meme has become as amusing as it persistent.
 
If only we had the frivolous atmosphere of Jim Calhoun’s UConn teams.

Bob In Houston

Do you really think Kobe and Lebron are going to play in Europe? Or are you really saying every non-superstar NBA player is going to want to play in Europe?

Although, apparently Lebron did buy part of Liverpool’s soccer club, so maybe you’re onto something there.

What Bob said, and what Scipio said.

However, if we’re ever going to have a chance at a national championship Barnes has to do at least one of the following, if not both.
1) get an offensive genius here
2) keep one of the freshman studs for more than one year

Also, at some point, if not already, we will lose some top recruits that actually want a shot at the NBA and a college championship. We can’t go on indefinitely as a development team for the NBA. We need some new banners hanging from that cavernous sound baffle.

Shit. I’m not the biggest basketball fan but I was looking forward to an entertaining year next year. I feel for the big time fans like Trips, Bob, jc, and maybe even a little bit for Blake B.

Springman has done wonders with the conditioning of our team, but is he up to getting Chapman ready to give us what we need? We don’t need weight shed, we need muscle gained. I’m not sure anyone could turn Chapman into that.

As for DeAndre Daniels or any other one and done; why don’t they go bang Euro’s for a year? I’d start off in Spain then force a trade to Russia or Hungary. They should be watching mixed tapes, rather than mix tapes, imho.

“There’s a reason that any Texas player that can even sniff the first round is gone. They can’t wait to get away from RB.”

Other than Gibson and then Avery last year, I can’t really think of anyone else that bolted maybe because of Barnes other than maybe Jham. TT didn’t seem to have any issues this year with him, other than not being taught how to pass out of a double team. JCov would be out of here quick if the league wanted him, that’s for sure.

Fucking hell.

I think that inadvertently or not Barnes has fostered a culture in the Texas basketball program where young, talented players come to Texas for a year and leave. That is just the thing to do. Other programs lose their NBA talent early but it seems to me the average years-in-school is somewhere in between 2 and 3 years. I would like to see the data though.

roach, there are 360 or so NBA players and there will be 60 draftees. If you have a chance to fill a slot on your roster, from which pool will you be more likely to find a quality professional player who can contribute immediately?

Magnus — That’s what I’d do. It looks like the Jeremy Tyler experiment didn’t work out, but Brandon Jennings definitely improved a lot practicing 6+ hours a day in the Euroleague versus spending a year at AZ in the midst of the Lute Olson era falling apart. Didn’t hurt that his family moved out to Rome with him.

For one, a pro contract in the hundreds of thousands ensures you can always go back to school later. For two, as someone who spent a semester abroad in Barcelona … wow. The beauty of it is, you don’t even really need to assimilate culturally more than you want to; there are tons of American college students in every big-European study, the majority of them are females and they’re looking to have a good time.

Thanks magnus… I may be treating basketball more like football, at least in the short term.

I have to wonder at this point if Barnes is treating his employer fairly with this strategy. If this is the payoff, we have a top-10 program that never will get to the top (not just talking the tournament championship, either).

As much as I defend RB, and I don’t mind doing it, the fact is that last year (2010) should have been a 30-win season, with a high seed and at least an EE. This year could have been the same thing. Before the tournament, I didn’t think this was a championship team, but based on the way the tournament played out, it could have been. And RB is the reason it did not get to the second weekend.

Hamilton obviously was a goner — he’s not immediately replaceable, but they have potential wings. Thompson is the guy that they should have retained. Not a polished prospect. He could use another 1,000 minutes of playing time and the off-court stuff that goes with it. I’m not angry with Thompson — best wishes and Godspeed if that’s what he wants.

However, there’s got to be something more to this program than the inexorable minting of NBA prospects. Maybe he’s reloading with the next couple of rounds of recruiting — Ridley appears to be an excellent addition for 2012, and there are a lot of good players out there who may well appreciate the chance to go when they can go.

But when I look back and wonder how things might have turned out with TJ Ford in 2004, or Daniel Gibson in 2007, or DJ Augustin in 2009 or Tristan Thompson in 2012, the dump truck full of what might have been is filling up fast.

Well said, Bob.

If this is true, I’m out supporting UT basketball or even college basketball at all. May watch from time to time, but no more games. I have no problem with kids doing what they want or should, but what’s the use watching a team that is never a team. I’m in new coach mode 100% and will speak with my wallet.

rantanamo -
 
Your new coach choice would only recruit four year players who can form cohesive teams?
 
The NIT is fun, I guess.

Scipio — Yea, does anyone want us to follow the A&M model? Really?

Butler made it to another championship after losing a guy to the draft the year before. Butler.

I don’t think attempting to recruit less talented players is the answer we’re looking for.

Maybe they hate Barnes, and leave.

Maybe they love Barnes, and leave.

But anyone who can sniff the first round goes, and the ones who can’t ‘develop’ into WangChapHill.

I have adjusted my expectations downward for the remainder of Barnes’ tenure. And I damn sure wouldn’t mind the powers that be defining some standards of achievement for the next couple of seasons that will determine the duration of that tenure.

Who are the 43 people that “Liked” this story?

What Scip said about what BIH said.

If the stars had aligned just so, we could have had a NC sometime this decade.

But, it is my belief that Texas basketball = Wisconsin football.

A nice level of overall success, a “brand” name easily recognizable even by the casual fan, but not a truly elite program that is capable of multiple titles. We have hashed and re-hashed some of the factors that hinder the program (despite the “We’re Texas” crowd who thinks money solves every problem), and while they can be overcome, I realize that it will take time.

However, If history is an true indicator, then perhaps another down cycle is about to begin. Like Bob, I have always been a defender of Barnes, but the team’s performance over the past two years puzzles and disheartens me.

I will be very interested in seeing where RB goes for filling his staff position that is now open, and if the rumors out there turn out to be true (Terrance Rencher, really?) then my emotional investment in ithe program will diminish.

Barnes is basically responsible for creating the very idea of expectations for Texas basketball.
 
He’s the best coach in Texas basketball history, responsible for an unprecedented run of success, has cemented us as the #2 school in the Big 12 in basketball (behind KU by a wide margin but ahead of #3 by as wide a margin) and is now being held to the standards of a basketball school by a fan base that isn’t always that knowledgeable about basketball and doesn’t embrace a basketball culture.
 
That written, he has made his own bed. We had a hell of a lot of momentum that has been squandered over the past 2-3 years and the fans want to see another breakthrough after the exciting initial run.
 
Not dissimilar from Frank Beamer at Va Tech, if you want a football comparison. Hard for a Hokie fan to imagine circa 2000 that the next ten years would feature 3-4 losses a season in a weak league and they’d never break through again despite lofty preseason rankings every year.
 
I don’t think we can realistically even begin discussing a new chapter in Texas basketball without letting Barnes cycle through the mix of guys he has waiting in the wings. It looks like a pretty good mix of one and done types and four year players. A team structure he has done pretty well with traditionally.

Thanks for the kind word, Scip and srr.

As I said yesterday in the Rodney Terry post, the name of the new assistant will say much more about RB’s opinion of the program than any public statement. Maybe Rencher is the right guy, but it sure seems as though that means things will stay in the family and essentially tells the fans, we’re right, we’ve been right, and we’re not changing a thing.

Absolutely no surprise that Jordan and Tristan are leaving because they have been consistently projected to be drafted in the first round, thus will get guaranteed multi-million dollar contracts.

To retain a probable first round draft choice, you have to have some combination of the following factors:
1. really deep connection between the player and the coach, team, school, and town.
2. outstanding coaching staff who will do such a great job of improving the skills of the player that it increases his value considerably
3. good probability of winning the NCAA championship

Point 1: UT is OK but not elite. It isn’t like playing basketball at Duke, NC, UK, or KU. Austin is sweet but you don’t have to attend UT to enjoy Austin. BTW, playing for a defensive taskmaster who stresses and practices unrelenting defense with a thin bench at the cost of offensive practice/sophistication is no fun. It must also be noted that Barnes has a genius for destroying players’ offensive confidence.

Point 2: once Barnes has taught you defense and Todd Wright has whipped you into shape, you’ve done most of your improvement as Texas.

Point 3: it isn’t likely Barnes is going to win an NCAA championship.

Summary: you have to be an exceptional coach (or lucky) to keep a first round draft choice from jumping to the NBA. Barnes isn’t that coach.

As far as Cory going to the NBA, I’ll believe it when I see it.

Personally I’ll diversify my college basketball viewing. I played organized basketball for 40 years (and coached for 30 years) in high school, university, army, industrial, city, and church leagues and really enjoy the game. From the perspective of somebody who has been way too into basketball for way too long, it is quite often painful to watch a Barnes coached offense. Since he isn’t going anywhere, I will watch less horns’ basketball and more of other college teams that are interesting.

Good point, Scip waiting to see the “new chapter” of guys waiting in the wings. You can see changes in recruiting and/or coaching philosophy after every truly humbling exit. After that Memphis beat down in 2008 Barnes started going after lengthier more athletic kids. He saw what a backcourt of CDR and Rose did to us, and didn’t want to see it happen again. Then after last year, he realized he needed help and started getting it in the form of the Utah Jazz.

Now… who knows. I’m not a great analyst so I can’t definitely say what lead to the early exit. Did he coach them too hard down the stretch? Tired legs? Too much reliance on young talent? The seeding obviously didn’t help. Did the offensive system break down? Or his coaching of it? I’m with most that a solid X’s and O’s hire might be the next step in the narrative, because I think he’s now recruiting to the system he wants to stick with. Someone that can help with in-game adjustments and preparation for opponents seems to be the next step.

Ah, hell. I’m already talking myself into next year.

*definitely in paragraph 2 s/b definitively.

Joseph is doing exactly what he should be doing. Declare but don’t hire an agent. If you get interest to go in round 1, you go. There is just too much money.

Even if all 3 go, Texas will be just fine. We have so much talent coming in and we all know Barnes can get more.

BigNoFunny, some of us would like to win a NC.

As much as I would like to be optimistic, the recent early defections, and the players just leaving the program, Varez Ward and Shawn Williams, over the last couple of years are sending a signal that while most of the players at UT are happy, the concept of winning a national championship at UT is fading.

Dollars to donuts, the kids coming in over the next few years are first thinking, “I’m going to be molded into a NBA caliber player by Barnes and Wright.” Not, “I would love to cut down the net.”

A championship team needs a few salty and talented veterans on the roster. This program will have few options for that over the next couple of years.

“I feel for the big time fans like Trips, Bob, jc, and maybe even a little bit for Blake B. "

Thanks, this sucks. Our front line without Thompson would be unbearably laughable. Fucking Sullinger and Henson.

Furk ’em both. Cya.

Who was the more productive Longhorn, Bradley or Joseph? It only takes one team.

We’re Wisconsin.

When bad shit like this goes down, I listen to Bachman Turner Overdrive’s greatest hits on a loop. It reminds of how bad things can really be.

This sucks. There’s no way of really knowing who the one and done kids are when you’re recruiting. Didn’t TT commit when he was a Soph in HS when he was skinnier than rookie year kevin garnett?

There are no sane solutions in college recruiting right now. NBA just needs to go to a MLB format. You can jump straight from high school, but if you commit to a college you’re in for 3 years.

Did i miss anyone?

Chris Mihm-Jr
Maurice Evans-Jr
TJ Ford-So
CJ Miles (never enrolled)
Daniel Gibson-So
LaMarcus Aldridge-So
PJ Tucker-Jr
Kevin Durant-Fr
DJ Augustine-So
Avery Bradley-Fr
Jordan Hamilton-So
Tristan Thompson-Fr

No, that’s my list.

When bad shit like this goes down, I listen to Bachman Turner Overdrive’s greatest hits on a loop. It reminds of how bad things can really be.

It’s the messenger! Let’s git ’im, boys!!

A lot of good comments here, but I disagree with the assessment of the Texas basketball program’s upside (it’s like Wisconsin football, etc). Wisconsin football is, at best, 5th in the pecking order in the Big Ten. Our basketball program is number 2 in the Big 12. Rick Barnes has elevated the Texas program, but The University of Texas and the advantages it enjoys have done plenty to elevate Rick Barnes, too.

In 10 years at Providence and Clemson, Barnes had 3 seasons of 20 wins or more, 1 season where he advanced past the first weekend of the tournament, and only 2 seasons where his conference record was above .500. Overall, his conference winning percentage was only 45%.

By the way, Providence went to the Final Four under Rick Pitino two years before Barnes became coach, and then Pete Gillen took them to the Elite Eight a couple of years after Barnes left. Clemson was in worse shape when Barnes took over, but he still had no more success there than Cliff Ellis had in the late 80s or than Oliver Purnell had recently. These weren’t dead end jobs where nobody could win.

At Texas, Barnes he has had 20 wins every year except his first, and a 73% winning percentage in conference games. He’s also had much more success in the tournament. He has a 18-13 tournament record at Texas, compared to a 2-6 record at Providence and Clemson.

I don’t think his record is that much better at Texas because he dramatically improved as a coach after he left Clemson.

The state of Texas has turned into an extremely fertile recruiting ground for high school basketball in the last 10 to 12 years. During that same time period, the University of Texas has committed to spending big bucks on the basketball program. Thank you Mack for making more money for us than we know how to spend.

For all the complaints about fan interest, we have a higher average attendance than most schools. It’s not Cameron Indoor Stadium, but it’s good enough, especially when the team looks like a contender.

Finally, the Big 12 conference is ripe for picking. Kansas is the only school that really prioritizes basketball over football (well, maybe Iowa State, but they are irrelevant). The talent pool available for many of the schools in the conference is extremely shallow unless they are willing to engage in rampant cheating. Kansas State, for example, is about to fall off the map now that its AAU pipeline to the DC area has dried up and its Huggins era recruits like Pullen are moving on.

Then there’s the money issue. The Big 12 contains the most uneven playing field among the major conferences, and we are the school who benefits the most. The structure of this conference alone should give us a free pass to the tournament ever year.

We are right in the middle of a region with tons of talent, Kansas is our only real competition, and we have more resources than any of our competitors. There is no reason why Texas shouldn’t be a power in college basketball.

Lets see if I’ve got this straight.
We have a baseball program coached by a guy who stubbornly clings to a philosophy that fails to maximize the talent available and which often results in inexplicable collapses.

We have a football program coached by a guy who stubbornly clings to a philosophy that fails to maximize the talent available and which often results in inexplicable collapses.

We have a basketball program coached by a guy who stubbornly clings to a philosophy that fails to maximize the talent available and which often results in inexplicable collapses.

Scip-

I appreciate your skepticism, but unfortunately I’m not “making shit up.” Believe what you want, but I’ve heard it straight from former players themselves. The guys come back during the summer b/c they respect the program, respect their former teammates, and love the open runs and access to Todd Wright. Oh, and because Barnes isn’t around.

I am not a Barnes hater by any means, in fact, I usually defend him. Just telling you what I know.

Trips,

Dunno man, I’d take a back court of Shabazz Napier and Jeremy Lamb over Kabongo/Joseph any day of the week. Throw in stud freshman Ryan Boatright, and it’s a slaughter.

Other than that, great article.

TexLaw said:

April 9th, 2011 at 5:59 am

I have heard similar stories repeated from former staff members.

To say any of our former players are “huge Barnes fans” is laughable at best, especially to anyone with any sort of contacts close to the program.

As typical as ransom’s comment is above, it holds some truth, we have some good ol boy complacency that has set in for the big 3 sports and all those involved have dug in deep…seems were ok with just being in the discussion last few years instead of trying to be the best our resources can allow us to be.

Good luck to TT and JH. Next year is going to be ugly in the paint…

Count me as another big fan of Barnes, but the early defections and transfers over the last couple of years are a red flag.

“Throw in stud freshman Ryan Boatright, and it’s a slaughter.”

Kabongo is better than Boatright. Both Brown and Joseph are better than Napier. Not sure why everybody thinks he is so amazing. Yes he plays with confidence, but his jumper was abysmal in the tourney, particularly in the later games. And he shot it at some truly stupid times. Lamb is very good and will improve, but that backcourt doesn’t compare to the UT one unless Napier improves exponentially over the summer.

There’s a lot of examples I’d bring up before them to counteract the point that UT would have the best guards in the country. Kentucky, Memphis, Florida, and Duke to name a few.

What needs to be done is go to a draft like college baseball where you can either sign out of high school if not you have to stay at college three years. This way the truly great players that could play right out of high school can sign with a pro team but players like jordan and TT schools would get for at least three years. Solves most of the problems I would think.

5Cjoseph Cory Joseph
Longhorns looking good for next season!

let the twitter stalking begin

maybe he meant it ironically

one strong reason good players come back is that they feel and smell the opportunity to win it all. Essentially, that’s what coaches have to sell is the idea that hey, we stand to win it all if you return and that’s the excitement players feel amongst each other. I wonder if Texas players feel that if they stay to play together, they have a real shot at something special. Players at Butler have to believe—they don’t have a choice but now, they also have glimpses of the promised land in collegiate sports and truly know they have a shot.

Problem is that Barnes can’t really deliver on the promise of a FF or a NC. No coach can. What he can deliver is a reasonable valuation of a player’s chances of being drafted.

The program is being run for the financial benefit of Coach Barnes and the kids that cycle in get trained by the University and then cash million dollar pay days. As a 27 year season ticket holder that has now seen 2 back to back flops by our 5 million a year dumb ass time out caller I am pissed. Deloss is now officailly asking us , in a tough economy to right big checks to make his coach/players wealthy for what? No hardware yet Rick and the kids still cash the big ones. Not happy!

Don’t blame you a bit for being unhappy, Roostrman.

Roostrman: Rick Barnes makes nowhere near 5 million a year, but point taken. You’re thinking Mack Brown.

Can certainly sympathize with your assertion about you and other ticket buyers having to essentially pay for UT to be a breeding ground for the NBA. Never thought of it that way before. I’m not going to “demand” success from Barnes at a UNC, UK, Duke, or whatever level. But it is simply a fact that he doesn’t consider that the fans pay his salary to win games to the best of his ability, even if that ability isn’t that high (not saying it isn’t). Not to put kids in the league and better their lives.

Going off that point, consider this. Some of these kids are very underprivileged and have tough upbringings. Granted. But are they really THAT much more important than the thousands of UT basketball fans that do honestly want the team to succeed? If Rick truly believes that, and he certainly appears to, I think he needs to take a step back and remember the reason he started coaching in the first place. I know it’s hard to believe, but there ARE other people that live this other than just the players and coaches.

Fans are expected to invest themselves emotionally in winning every game (not to mention monetarily; Rick is always complaining about how nobody shows up to the games), and yet can we not expect the same purity of goals in return? Maybe it’s just me, but that doesn’t seem…just.

But it is simply a fact that he doesn’t consider that the fans pay his salary to win games to the best of his ability, even if that ability isn’t that high (not saying it isn’t). Not to put kids in the league and better their lives.

I don’t think Barnes is giving less than his best in terms of trying to win.

I think the question is whether his recruiting strategy, and particularly how he handles NBA issues — since other coaches seem to be able to handle them with more benefit for their teams — is in the best interest of UT.

I don’t think Barnes is giving less than his best in terms of trying to win.

Bob, I agree with you. However, I think those comments he made (in ESPN mag??) last year were pretty damning. True or not, in context or not, I still can’t figure why he said that publicly.

Hip: I remember Self being asked about what Barnes said and IIRC, his response was, I agree, but I wouldn’t have said it that way.

I sure wouldn’t have said it like that. I go over that and I can’t figure out how the players and the NBA should have been part of the answer at all. Something like “It’s with me every day but I can’t keep it from doing the best job I can” would have answered the question just fine.

I said last year that this was going to stick, and it has. It has devolved in this thread, and in the Rodney Terry thread, where one of the posters said that Barnes doesn’t care about winning titles. He didn’t say that at all.

I think what he did not say is that it’s up to him to put together a winning combination based on his reputation as a guy who will advocate for his players and get them to the NBA. But it’s blowing up in his face — last year, the thing falls apart, and this year, despite doing much better than expected, the perception again is that he failed. And each year, his best recruit looks to be hitting the door.

That has the double-barreled effect of hurting the product on the floor (while, paradoxically, probably not hurting the recruiting) and hurting his image with fans such as Roostrman, who’s been writing checks for a quarter-century and now has grounded, serious doubts about the method.

I’m not sure how grounded his doubts are if he thinks Barnes makes $5 million a year.

Great thread, many excellent and perceptive comments about the state of UT basketball. An attempt at a one-sentence summary: We are basically content with being “in the conversation” nationally.

Provocative theory: Rick doesn’t have the fire in the belly to win TITLES the way that Roy and K and Calhoun do. It’s not his passion, not what he coaches for. If it were, he would do things differently.

Harsh? Unfair? Inaccurate? Maybe. But the theory is not inconsistent with what has been seen during the Barnes tenure.

OBs reporting Lanier is coming back to Texas.

Provocative theory: Rick doesn’t have the fire in the belly to win TITLES the way that Roy and K and Calhoun do. It’s not his passion, not what he coaches for. If it were, he would do things differently.

Harsh? Unfair? Inaccurate? Maybe. But the theory is not inconsistent with what has been seen during the Barnes tenure.

It is my theory that the Athletic Department (and the fan base as a whole) do not have “the fire in the belly” to win basketball titles — at least not in comparison to the programs you mentioned.

Back to this thread, Barnes from NC just said he’s coming back as well…so that’s 3 or 4 lottery picks that are definitely better prospects than JH and TT that are staying for another year…doesn’t sound like TT and JH have a burning desire to stay in the program….something is off and let’s hope Lanier can “fix” it. Sullinger might have been a top 3 pick and he’s staying put…Back to my monday morning cup of bitter coffee…

ball, as I’ve been posting, Barnes’s strategy has worked well in recruiting. It has not worked well in terms of producing certifiable championship contenders, with the possible exception of 2006. Even that team would not have been as highly thought of if Aldridge hadn’t been injured in 2005, as he would not have come back had he not been hurt.

JH and TT returning would put Texas in the group, but that would be a very competitive group. Not a sure thing at all. But it’s still not how Barnes has operated.

I’m with ya on the bitterness.

Another thing to keep in my mind — there’s talk that two of the best Euros (Valanciunas and Mirotic) aren’t going to declare either because the buy-outs to get out of their club contracts are too high this year. The 2012 draft class is going to be absolutely stacked … at this rate Hamilton could be a top 10 pick this year and a bottom first-rounder next year.

Hamilton is a nice player, but not irreplaceable. TT is the one whose loss really hurts.

As I said on the other thread, hat tip to Roy Williams for somehow creating an atmosphere where kids want to stay and win national championships.

That’s a good point tjarks and I assumed something like that was pushing jham where I think TT would probably go just a few slots higher if he stays but maybe not with the stacked 2012 class, so his motivation is definitely “interesting”, especially when he’s said all along he wants to play a year with Kabongo.

I guess Sullinger, Barnes, etc.. probably assume they’ll be lottery picks either way but still a little bitter, especially because Bradley would have gone much higher this year than last but he gtfo dodge anyway, that’s sort of what I was leaning to with the post…I think most of us thought Gibson left a year early as well but I think that was more his dad pushing.

ball, I don’t think either of those guys missed Rick Barnes much. Gibson even said he almost quit his first semester.

I think Thompson could have it both ways if he stayed and got his shot together. He’d play with Kabongo and move up. But I easily can understand the argument that the lockout can’t last forever, and hoping to move up is just another risk.

ESPN still shows JH and TT as staying. Did something change?

Hook’em

No. They’re going by what the players said during the tournament.

Somewhat “traditionally,” UT players haven’t announced until after the team banquet, which was last week. The deadline to get in is Sunday. So, lots of time.

Hamilton is what he is, he might be more efficient playing with a true point, but I doubt he can improve his stock much, which is why I’d be stunned if he didn’t go.

Thompson, if he improves his jumper, would be a higher pick than Sullinger my opinion and is probably a lottery guy either way.

We can survive losing Hamilton; Thompson’s decision is going to be harder, and the one that matters more for UT too.

individually speaking, it makes sense for these guys to get in now, from an individual persepctive. the guys in front of them keep pulling out of the draft and they both move up. no comment from me on “reasons for them to stay.” I do agree that TT still has room to grow in the college game while all Hamilton can really do is polish at this point.

assuming that TT & JH are gone…you gotta hope for a small leap forward for Wangmene (possible) and a huge leap forward from Chapman. I trust Wangmene more. that said, there were points early in Chapman’s career that I thought he showed some promise — at least on the offensive end.

and while the post will be a concern, who is going to defend at the 3? we just don’t even have any options there.

I just really hope we adjust to the talent we do have next year. and I hope that Holmes and Thomas are ready to contribute.

I don’t have a link but there was an artucle in the AAS this weekend quoting all three as saying they have not made up their mind yet.

I don’t see why Jordan would stay, but there is really no reason for them to ne saying they haven’t decided if they have, unless they are still awaiting projections on where they will go if they declare.

I don’t hold out much hope for JH, but am hoping TT will stay and work on his offensive game (Kabongo could be a help there). As for CJ, I’ve been wrong before, but he doesn’t look like first round material.

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