Attrition Season is Here

Chet Moss to fullback is very surprising. Harsin not totally confident with CoJo, Bergeron and co or looking for hard edges for a diamond formation? Neither would surprise me.

That is a pretty strong looking 20-deep at TE/FB/H-Back. Adding another to the mix so soon is odd.

Experimentation, would be my guess on the Moss move.

Or, maybe, the evil coaches want to light a block-like-he-does fire under one or two other fullback candidates.

I do admire the let’s try this ‘n’ that approach.

With today’s losses , our upper class ranks are down to something like 12 scholarship seniors and definitely under 15 juniors. Says worlds about this teams youth - and some -—————ing recruiting decisions a few years back.

I should have asked this on the Brock Fitz thread but how does getting getting rid of these players before the 2011 season have anything to do with verbal commitments for 2012? What it tells me is that they oversigned in 2011 class. Let me know if I am wrong but these players dont affect the 2012 class unless they are on the roster for the beginning of the 2012 season.

85 man limit

This is all good attrition and some of our position switches are to encourage future attrition.
 
The coaches realize that this roster needs a dramatic re-haul and they’re beginning that process. It won’t be done Nick Saban style, but expect a healthy use of medical redshirts, position switches, and heart-to-hearts about playing time to effect change.

Vasherized: “85 man limit”

I agree… that affects the 2011 season not the 2012 verbal commits. What this tells me is that they oversigned by more than a few recruits in 2011.

am I right or wrong?

Kind of wrong, because I believe we were at 85 before today anyway.

Soldier,
This attrition didn’t happen to get under the 85 limit this year, but it affects how big the 2012 class can be.

I think we broke spring camp with 87 scholarship athletes counting the incoming 2011 class, but we were under 85 by July 1st.

norberg: “Kind of wrong, because I believe we were at 85 before today anyway.”

Mano: “I think we broke spring camp with 87 scholarship athletes counting the incoming 2011 class, but we were under 85 by July 1st.”

exactly, they are coming in with too many for the 2011 season; meaning they oversigned recruits

Mano: “This attrition didn’t happen to get under the 85 limit this year, but it affects how big the 2012 class can be.”

did the rules change? the limit this year has no effect on the 2012 class. How does getting rid of Malcom Williams in his senior season or Brock when he is graduationing after the season affect the 2012 class? it doesnt

“exactly, they are coming in with too many for the 2011 season; meaning they oversigned recruits”

You lost me. We were at 85 before today anyway. We are not coming in with too many for 2011.

The big picture is that the class year is irrelevant in getting rid of dead weight and infusing new blood.
 
The smaller irrelevant picture is that the coaches have it worked out in terms of short term class effects on available scholarships. As they do every year and every year people still fret about it.

Norberg: “You lost me. We were at 85 before today anyway. We are not coming in with too many for 2011”

If they are at 85 before today, then they dont have to drop anyone for the 2011 season. This doesnt free up schollies for 2012 until next year. Getting rid of Malcom, for example, doesnt free up a 2012 schollie since he will not be here anyway due to graduation. IF they are trying to free up schollies for 2012, they could have done that after the season. Malcom was a great contributor on ST. Fitz has done everything asked of him and going to graduate in Dec anyway. Unless they are volunteering to leave, then this is doing them wrong IMO.

I don’t think anyone’s saying that Malcolm is gone to make room for anyone. There’s something else going on with him. Brock has two years of eligibility remaining; I dunno what his graduation situation is, but if he wanted to draw it out to stay on the team, he would take up a spot through 2012.

So this is a confirmed three extra spots for the 2012 class. That’s the recruiting relevance.

I would have liked to see Malcolm Williams on the field this year. He’ll be one of those who left us wondering, what if?

And I’d be volunteering to leave if I were Graham, Fitz, or Nkwopara. They’re all literally seventh or eighth on the depth chart. No chance of serious PT. Might as well transfer.

What’s the word with Malcolm Williams? Any special reason why he’s gone and does he have a future in the NFL?

If you are offered a full ride and don’t pan out through no fault if your own and cannot afford to finance your college education why not stay on the team? I would. You don’t owe anybody anything but your effort.

Dagga, they could have told Fitz that they will need to make room after the season. It would have made no difference to the 2012 count to cut him in December versus now. If they are going to carry his schollie for this coming semester (as they should), then why not leave him on the team if it isnt a 85 limit issue?

Cutting Malcom just doesnt make sense unless something else is going on, as you say.

When does practice start?

These guys aren’t being “cut” from the team. Williams sat out the entire spring and summer because of the personal issues. People here at BC and over at Burnt Orange Nation have discussed it for months. Today’s announcement was just the culmination.

On a more positive note, I think this will be the youngest 2 deep roster Mack has put out on the field. I’m excited at the prospect of seeing motivated and hungry underclassmen wrecking stuff this year.

Dagga: “And I’d be volunteering to leave if I were Graham, Fitz, or Nkwopara. They’re all literally seventh or eighth on the depth chart. No chance of serious PT. Might as well transfer.”

Dagga, if you one semester away from graduating, would you choose to transfer from a prestigious university so he can sit the bench at smaller school for 2011? Even if the wanted to play his 5th season (2012) at another school on his way to a graduate degree, why couldnt he participate in the 2011 season, graduate after the season, and transfer during the winter break and early enroll in the school in January?

no.. this doesnt make sense either unless there is an oversiigning issue.

I believe practice starts tomorrow with a meeting this evening. Could be wrong.

Soldier – Our scholly position for 2011 doesn’t rely on Fitz. By my count, looking at the roster on MBTF we had 87 guys on scholarship before today. We didn’t need to shed four guys, only two. It makes no sense to get rid of Fitzhenry if he wants to be on the team this year but doesn’t want to play his senior year. At the very least, that’s an perfectly fine practice and ST player we’d be discarding, and we have room for him.

And if it’s my final year in 2011 and I have no chance of getting on the field in college let alone in the pros, then I might choose to focus on my job hunt rather than football.

Dagga: “And if it’s my final year in 2011 and I have no chance of getting on the field in college let alone in the pros, then I might choose to focus on my job hunt rather than football.”

You could be right but would you then spend your summer working out to get ready for the season? I wouldnt I dont think I read anywhere that Brock has missed summer workouts; not to say it didnt happen, just I havent read about it.

so which walk-ons are going to be awarded scholarships this season?

“Dagga, if you one semester away from graduating, would you choose to transfer from a prestigious university so he can sit the bench at smaller school for 2011? Even if the wanted to play his 5th season (2012) at another school on his way to a graduate degree, why couldnt he participate in the 2011 season, graduate after the season, and transfer during the winter break and early enroll in the school in January?”

Did I miss something? Where does it say that Brock is transfering? I thought it only listed the players as not playing in 2011. Brock might finish up his last semester and keep his scholarship through graduation, unless otherwise stated, we don’t know. Maybe he is tired of putting in all the time and effort and not getting to play.

Malcolm, as has already been stated, has and apparently still is, having some personal issues that are keeping him from being able to play. There are certainly other players on the roster that would be pushed out the door before MW if that is what the coaches were trying to do.

The other two players were either buried on the depth chart or were struggling with injury problems. I can certainly understand why they would either leave the team or transfer for greener pastures.

This happens every year, nothing says these players were cut. I’m not sure where you are getting the oversigning issues.

Well who we be the potential targets they would look at for the 2012 class since theres 3 more spots we can fill..? I’ve seen people mention kendall sanders and corey coleman. Maybe another DE?

If I understand how the scholarship counting works, a couple of these may provide openings for early enrollees among the 2012 class. If so, then in that sense even a senior leaving this year might have a bearing on the 2012 class.

sunset, no… no one said he was transferring; that was wrapped in a hypothetical. “Word we’re hearing is that Fitz won’t be on the Texas roster this fall, but it’s unclear whether or not the young man will transfer.” – JS

I remember that Malcolm has had personal issues during the spring practices but did he participate in summer workouts? I havent read anywhere that said he didnt.

The oversigning should have been in the form of a question instead of a statement. That would make sense to get rid of Patrick or Graham if they needed to get down to 85 from 87.

IF both Fitz and Malcolm are due to personal issues then that is ok. Both have been good upstanding players and should be given that consideration in possibly their last semester at UT.

The original question was: “how does getting getting rid of these players before the 2011 season have anything to do with verbal commitments for 2012?”
Personal issues? possibly,.. making room to get to 85 for Malcolm and Fitz? I dont see it.

Malcolm Williams is the only senior in this group of attrition. Thus he is the only player that was definitely not going to be here in 2012. Thus the subtraction of the other 3 players opens up 3 scholarships that can be used for 2012 signees. How can this be difficult to understand? I’m pretty sure that Quincy Russell not qualifying got them to the 85 limit for this season.

According to the Inside Texas roster table currently at 81 after the loss of these four.
http://insidetexas.com/football/football.php?pg=fb_roster

Sounds like Berryhill is gettin a scholly

How many will be out of eligilibility after this season?

If you assume no more attrition and (which won’t happen) no early NFL entries (may very likely happen) before next August, then you subtract that number from 81 and it tells you have many schollies, in theory, we have for the 2012 class…right? Anybody have a SWAG on what that number is?

So I don’t know if this getting us down to 81 will help us with 2012 offers or not because I don’t know those numbers, but it isn’t rocket surgery to say that one can affect the other since it will make how ever many we have after the season lower by 4 going into 2012 no matter what.

Also, I don’t remember this many non-academic off season casualties in any of Mack’s previous years. Culture change perhaps?

Jake,
Their are 12 players in their last year of eligibility. With the four attrites today, that gives us 16 available for next year. We already have 18 verbals for next year and imagine that we’ll take 4-5 more in that class. You’re right – there will absolutely be more attrition from the squad.

There are 12 seniors listed on the IT roster table. So 85 (scholarship limit) – {81 (current roster) – 12 (senior class)} = 85 – 69 = 16 scholarships available for 2012 as of today. I’m sure that number will be closer to 20 that actually sign. There’s almost certainly one QB who will not complete his eligibility at UT. I would think one or two OL will have had enough. Shead could be a definite transfer candidate if he doesn’t get PT this year. Eryon Barnett has had a bunch of injuries and could hang it up. Dom Jones could be an academic casualty. I’m sure they’ll find a way to get at least 20 in that 2012 class.

I don’t know if it’s because I’m ignorant to the situation or I just can’t remember, but I’ve been reading people discussing Malcolm William’s personal issues for awhile, but I can’t remember anyone ever describing what those personal issues actually are. Not tying to stick my nose in someone else’s personal life, but does anyone actually know what these personal issues are or is it sort of an understood thing that he’s having some sort of personal issues but the details haven’t been disclosed to the general public?

The reason I ask is because this comes as sort of surprise to me, especially since very recently people like JS were talking about Williams being a possible answer for our TE dilema.

any input would be much obliged.

The 2012ers might go higher than 20. Looking at the depth chart I see ten underclassmen that I suspect could become attrition candidates over the next 12 months: D.Jones, Kriegel, Barnett, AJ White (if he eventually falls behind 2 frosh on the depth chart), Wood, Shead, C. Jones (if we land another 2012 WR), D. Cotton, Bible and Daniels (though the last two would likely be either/or – whoever is lower on the depth chart at year’s end might consider a transfer).

Also, Roberson or Buchanan could pull a Fitzhenry and leave the team as upperclassmen if they realize they’re not likely to get much playing time before graduation. And who knows what will happen with Poehlmann’s constant injuries, or DJ Grant’s. Add ‘em up and we could lose as many as 13 more guys. Not likely, but I have a hunch it’ll be more than four.

MW’s stuff ain’t none of our business, imo.

Rooster you’re smoking something on a couple of those. Bible is supposedly back to his BAMF self instead of FatAMF self. Where are you geting the fact that byndom or turner might pass Aj white? He was highly regarded and I’ve only heard good things since he’s been on campus.

As several have said, this is good attrition — other than Malcolm Williams.

Fitzhenry is on track for graduation in 3 1/2 years; maybe he stays on schollie, maybe not, if he decided just being a practice player was not what he wanted to do.

I can’t tell from Mack’s comment if Graham is out for the season, for medical reasons, or if he’s going on medical hardship and won’t play again. I’m reading it as will miss the season but will stay on scholarship.

Any underclassman attrition helps bolster the 2012 signing class. Williams’ leaving has no effect on that. All the openings create the potential for walk-ons to get a schollie for this season. McNamara, Berryhill, Zumberge would seem to be potential recipients for one-year scholarships, and Mack will sometimes reward a high energy practice player with a HIGH grade point average.

I posted comments along these lines on the WR thread, but we seemed to have moved on from that. Losing MW hurts a lot. We are now relying on 2 sophomores and a true freshman to lead the WRs.
Mike Davis – My only concern is staying healthy. He got dinged last year. I hope he hits 1000 yards
D White – the new MW as far as talent/skill set goes? I think he only caught one pass his fr year.
Ship2 – Mike Davis had a great year for a Freshman, and he didn’t break 500 yards. Ship1 had 16 catches for 229 yards his freshman year. I have high hopes for his career, but I think expecting much more than about 300 yards out of him is unrealistic.

Hales? We have enough short fast guys.
Maybe McNamara supplies some Jr with a walk-on chip on his shoulder leadership?

texastough – Really the book is out on Bible until he shows something on the field. He’s lost a lot of weight, yes, but that doesn’t mean that he’s in the right kind of shape to be as explosive as he was three years ago. Point is, with Bible and Daniels: if one or both get passed up by Desmond Jackson on the depth chart, the lesser of the two will be on the outside looking in if they ever want to be a starter. Maybe a rotation player, but then again MB2 is on his way. Personally I have hope that Bible finally gets it and will be competing for starting snaps by mid-season. But if he doesn’t make an impact this year, I’m not sure that the depth chart will offer another opportunity to claim a starting spot. Same with Daniels.

With White, I’m actually not convinced there’s much separation at CB; I could have called it “Byndom/Phillips/White” but being that kind of a stickler is an invitation for carpal tunnel. Bottom line is, those are the three elders of the CB group, i.e., true sophomores. At the end of spring, Byndom and Phillips were the starters and Diggs was the nickel. Barring early entry to the NFL, all three of those guys will be around for the rest of White’s career unless he redshirts as an upperclassman – but if you redshirt late, you better be assured of a starting spot as a senior or you’re better off transferring. Those kinds of assurances are rare.

And if one of the frosh – such as Scott or Turner or maybe Jackson – passes White on the depth chart over the course of the season, then he’s now behind two younger players and on the outside looking in for the rest of his tenure even if he takes a redshirt. Same basically goes for any of the three sophs if they end up fifth on the depth chart at the end of the season; they’d still have two years of eligibility, but little prospect for playing time though any of them could be starting tomorrow at 50 other D-1 schools. Whoever it is, that kid should find it tempting to transfer.

In any case I’m not trying to pan these kids. What I’m saying is that these ten are the kids who in 2011 need to either (a) defend their spot on the depth chart from a serious challenge or (b) jump someone else if they want to secure significant future playing time. With the kids you mentioned it’s more a matter of having lots of strong young competition on the depth chart than an issue of talent. The fact that they’re all talented kids is exactly why they might be tempted to transfer if the depth chart doesn’t work out in their favor.

Just keep recruiting and signing great players and the numbers will work themselves out.

This attrition will help the coaches give needed practice time to players wirh legitimate chances of contributing. Much needed.

ut-06:

“Ship2 – Mike Davis had a great year for a Freshman, and he didn’t break 500 yards. Ship1 had 16 catches for 229 yards his freshman year. I have high hopes for his career, but I think expecting much more than about 300 yards out of him is unrealistic.”

If Shipley were to finish the season with exactly 300 yards receiving, that would be an average of 23 per game. With our bizarre WR attrition, we’ll need more than that from him.

Even if he does as well as Mike Davis did and gets around 500 yards, that is still only about 41 y/g. The fact that we need more from a true freshman was my point. I don’t like relying on true freshmen at any position. I guess at least WR is one of the ‘easier’ places for them to make an impact. I was worried before because of all the growth GG needs to show for the WRs to even be relevant, but I had hopes that MW would get it together and at least turn in a very solid season and give GG a good target. Now my emotions and expectations are shifting towards the Ransom side of the spectrum.

Is it possible that Brock is tired of playing football, and would rather drop the schollie, pay for a semester or two, get his degree and move on with his life?

Can scholarship football players ever willingly give up the game, or must they all play until some coach or the NFL tells them “It’s over.”

I never understand the fuss over the 85 scholarship limit. People worry about too much. The numbers take care of themselves.

Can scholarship football players ever willingly give up the game, or must they all play until some coach or the NFL tells them "It’s over."

A few do, most don’t. Why would you expect less?

Soldier-

This attrition was not needed to get us to 85, so we did not cut players because we oversigned in 2011. We had 85 on scholarship before today.

Fitz, Graham, and Nwokpara all had eligibility in 2012. Their leaving means we have 3 more scholarships.

Fitzhenry and Nkwopara just didn’t seem good enough to have much hope of breaking into the two-deep, and were no doubt made aware of it many ways. Sounds like Fitz is staying in school and graduating. Graham seemed to be Fozzy-fragiler, out for season second year in a row… I’m assuming he gets the med-shirt and stays in school, right?

Nwokpara will forever have me doubting Will Muschamp’s ability to evaluate.