Love (Of $$$) Will Tear Us Apart

As a small-town East Texas military Aggie, I appreciate the depth of this article. I imagine one of my childhood best friends, a self-made man and huge Longhorn fan, will too.

Even if a divorce is on the horizon, I don’t think the last chapter has been written and sent off to the publisher yet…

You are asking the wrong fanbase We are not the ones running away.

Great article.

Toadvine – Interesting perspective from someone who’s seen both sides. Or should I have addressed you as Toadvine the 4th. Rather an odd name to keep passing down through the generations.

Good read.

I find it interesting that a school and fanbase that is so tied to even the most minute of traditions is willing to kill their biggest tradition and their whole raison d’être – hating UT’s guts. There are even several subtraditions underneath the banner of that root tradition. How ghey is that going to look when they sway to saw Bevo’s horns off while they’re playing Ole Miss? Are they going to build a bonfire to jinx UT against (insert opponent here) the same week they’re playing Allbarn?

Personally, I would not be sad to see them go if it means the death knell of this ventilated conference. I wanted Oklahoma to go out West last year and if a&m leaves, it might just help tip that scale.

What I found surprised me – from a UT perspective, the OU game was HUGE, while the A&M game was slightly less interesting than the Tech game, albeit with more history. Older Longhorn fans understood the roots of the rivalry, but people my age, in their mid-30s, really didn’t.

You are underestimating the length of time for the one-sided feelings. As many in the BC boardroom love to point out — I am an elder of the organization. The A&M game was never as passionate a week at OU — never. And it was as you pointed out because they were not competitive until Jackie showed up.

Losing to A&M was irritating, but it didn’t cause the angst that losing to OU did, and to this day for many of my generation that still holds true.

You come as close as anyone I know to explaining the puzzling phenomenon of the mindset for many Aggies that their success isn’t enough — we must be wallowing in misery in order for them to be complete.

One thing that has been obvious over the past week or so is that Texas understands FAR better than the aggies that managing the brand is important in today’s entertainment market. The reason the Horns generate so much revenue from merchandise sales and created the opportunity to launch LHN because the Longhorn brand has great value. The Longhorn teams that take the field are highly entertaining. That has great value.

This past week, when the aggies held the attention of much of the college sporting world, they had an incredible opportunity to build on their brand. They blew it. Bill Byrne wasn’t even in the country. This move to the SEC should have been managed to showcase the “new aggie” brand and launch the school into a new era. Instead, the reinforced the old brand of ineptitude and confusion. The aggied the whole thing up.

Rick Perry did the school no favor by shining the spotlight on the SEC move before advanced discussions were ongoing. The school should have has its message in place, managed its exposure and made the move to the SEC in a smooth and professional manner. What transpired over the weekend was inevitable and expected.

The differences between Texas and a&m are huge. Texas understands how to move effectively in the entertainment world and how to think at least a few steps ahead to protect, if not enhance, its brand. The aggies simply aren’t as savvy as the Horns in this regard. The revenues Texas collects are not generated by unfair activities or by denying a&m any opportunity. The reason the financial disparity exists between Texas a the aggies is because Texas delivers a better product in the entertainment market. This past weekend was just another example of how far a&m has to go to effectively compete in the sports entertainment world. They are their own worst enemy and their whining about the success of others is getting tiring.

Very nice.

Great article but I have one huge beef/bitch, the end.

You don’t care about the Longhorn Network. I see that all over the longhorn interwebs and I just don’t understand that viewpoint. As a huge sports nut and supporter of all things University of Texas I am giddy beyond belief about the longhorn network.

All of baseball will be televised
Women’s soccer and volleyball- cute girls repping our school
Softball- weren’t we a top 3 seed?
Who gives a crap basketball games not previouisly on the air? Me- I like seeing us play even if it’s just southeastern north lousianna technical.

Coach’s show’s, longhorns sports center etc.

Also, I have to imagine there will be some cool academic stuff as well. Stuff I will really like watching.

I’d be very surprised if my TV is not on the longhorn network 20 or 30 hours a week- shocked. Between the occasional academic event, live programming, replay of the 1996 big 12 title game- 69 shootout, gardere era OU, all things vince- how is this something that you dismiss and don’t care about? The only thing I can think of when I see this argument made on the net is that it’s just coming from a football only fan (who cares we already have 11 out of 12 games on the year in football- I’m good).

My god though, you are a long haired soccer player- you can’t see the tremendous value for our non-revenue sports and don’t think that important?

I’d love the Longhorn Network if it was a loss leader for us. The fact that we are getting 15 million is just gravy. To the extent it adds money to our bottom line I don’t really care. To the extent that it makes my university a more attractive place and enhances my experience as a fan it makes me giddy.

Love seeing a thoughtful piece like this on this subject. True, the ags decision to leave is being made by rich white guys. Sounds like Congress, doesn’t it. Rick Perry and ou both suck.

Wulaw -

We actually are receiving just under $11mil (IMG gets just over $4mil), but I concur on your opinion of LHN. It will be fun to keep closer tabs on the spring sports.

Being what you Aggie types call a “T-Shirt Sip,” you will probably consider what I say now as having no validity and someone with no right to voice an opinion. However, in your voicing the Aggie propaganda that UT is all hippie types and A&M is a military institution kind of makes your eloquent article a little misleading on all subjects there after.

Being a Marine with First Battalion/ Ninth Marines Đi bộ Chết (The Walking Dead,)during the era you chose to differentiate the two Universities, we was on the DMZ, Vietnam. Our rear area was Dong Ha, which during my time we only saw twice briefly. At Dong Ha one could look across the base and see flags of different States with a very few university flags. The most beautiful/outstanding was the two Texas flags, the second most prideful were three UT flags. There were no A&M flags.
So, I don’t understand why you would continue this fallacy of Aggie being a military power and UT as the wimpy destination. If you check, the leader of the brave Seal Team that took out Bin Laden was an UT gradutate.

Toadvine 4,

I see it much the same as you. My mother’s family was a house divded. Four of her brothers were Texas grads (doctors and pharmacists). Four were a$m grads (all US Army Lifers). TG was always the highlight of the year for us.

Like you, I could care less about LHN, sky boxes, the width of the stadium seats, or any of the other DD money making ideas. All I care about is good football, baseball and basketball.

Toadvine, I didn’t grow up in an Aggie family, but I did grow up in a small town which preached that same message to all the youth. Aggie = good, clean, American. Longhorn = bad, lazy, communist. The problem is I had gone to Austin and knew people from Austin and so I knew the truth.

When I was at Texas, 1992-1997, A&M was every bit the rivalry as OU. OU was probably #2 for the students at the time because A&M had been so good and OU not so much during the early 90s.

Last, there is a belief the Aggies have that they have the better hard sciences and engineering programs. However, I can assure everyone reading that is not the case at all. Texas while not elite excels across the board academically. I know the engineering are pretty close but Texas’ is better.

This article is the high-water mark for this website. I’ve read some great things here, and anticipate I will read more. But, this article truly resonates with me. Spot on sir. And, well said.

As the Grandson of a former SWC football official, I was raised with burnt orange blood in my veins, but with a healthy respect for the other original conference members (my Granddaddy predicted that admitting UofH would be the beginning of the end of the SWC, and he was right).

Like it or not, the aggies have always been family, literally and figuratively. For a century we have eaten turkey together and shaken hands after the game. This is not as simple as they are "the ones running away." What a pitiful turn of events this has taken.

well-written, sir. very enjoyable read and nice to step back and consider the cost of this arms race.

Soccer IS a communist sport…. Fuck Soccer.

Well done. I understand what both parties are doing, but why? What’s the point? It’s not like either one of these programs are lacking athletic revenues. How much money do you need? Especially, Texas. Regardless of how cool the LHN is, the formation and development will ultimately be what kills the conference. If I’m a Longhorn fan and ticket holder, was it really worth it in the long run to watch UT beat up on Rice, Houston, UTEP, Air Force, Tulane and Central Florida at home games? And, then have to justify the SOS in a 12-0 season to everyone? I don’t get it, but it’s obvious that UT wants A&M to stay so long as they’re playing by their rules, and if not, they would rather kill the conference. For money, I assume, in an amateur sport?

Ded- if you are a longhorn and care about any sport other than football the Longhorn Network is the coolest thing to happen to this University since VY. It will make following the football program twice as fun but make following the other sports infinitely more enjoyable, as well as keeping in touch with what’s happening on campus. As someone who camped out for basketball trips, road tripped to KU 3 times in my life for hoops, has been to Omaha multiple times and used to attend 15 baseball games a year while in school (even though we more or less sucked) this is awesome. It might be about cash to Deloss- but I don’t even think that’s really the point- (at least it’s not about the 15 million or 11 million or whatever it is a year). I think it’s about making UT athletics far and away the #1 brand in college sports, and taking care of the fan base.

This has a chance to be University altering in so many ways. Hell yes, it’s worth running off those hicks from the sticks over, and it’s worth burning the entire conference to the ground if that’s what it takes (though I doubt that’s what happens or the end game). Tech, OU, OSU and the orphan 4 from the erstwhile big 12 north realize their bread is buttered with us.

We either keep this spare collection of misfits together by adding a BYU ish school- hit a home run by bringing in the domers and a school like Louisville along with BYU and reworking the big 12, or we blow up the college landscape by going to the pac 12 or B1G or whoever will take us. In any scenario, in my opinion, we are infinitely better off with the LHN than without, and at the end of the day I don’t think it’s about the 8 figure a year deal with ESPN. We were going to do this on our own, one way or another, because it’s a game changer- partnering with ESPN just made it easier and more plausible immediately.

“was it really worth it in the long run to watch UT beat up on Rice, Houston, UTEP, Air Force, Tulane and Central Florida at home games”

Come on ded, you are better than that.

Edit to add- I know that you aren’t a longhorn, but rather the most literate techie I’ve ever read on the net (love following your work) but am giving you my perspective as a horn.

ded -

Changing the conference doesn’t mean killing the conference. The ags are tired of being identified as second class to Texas and its their pride driving this clusterfuck, not the Horns uncontrolled greed. Austin is the largest city in the country without a pro sports franchise. While the alums drive a lot of revenue to the Texas programs, the t-shirt fans identifying with the brand drive a lot of revenue to the Texas program and are hugely responsible for the creation of LHN. If the t-shirt fans want to pay for the product, it would be irresponsible for Texas not to capitalize on the opportunity to extract maximum returns for the investment it has made in the Longhorn brand.

Texas will be fine when all this settles down. a&m, on the other hand, is risking more than they seem to realize. They are willing to gut their most sacred traditions (bonfire, especially) in order to escape the glare of the Longhorn brand. The brand of the SEC, while powerful is collective. A nation-wide individual brand in college sports is rare. ND has one, but they are the only true national university in college sports.

The ags are trying to compete with a savvy marketing team in a 1.3 million person home market and a huge alumni following. They need to realize Texas has advantages a&m doesn’t enjoy. If the ags don’t understand how to build and protect a brand, Texas cannot be penalized for doing so. When the ags leave, we can easily bring in Air Force to expand again into the Denver market and to market to another school with a small, but national fan base. We will be fine. The ags, on the other hand, will need to spend many years trying to build a new identity and deal with the irrelevance of their cherished traditions.

So is A&M leaving because of money? Or is it the LHN? Or getting out of UT’s shadow? Or because Texas is going independent? Or because the conference is dying?

Seriously the story seems to change from hour to hour based on which way A&M is wanting to spin it at that point.

Hey, I just hope it works. Obviously, Tech is sticking with UT, but I’m wondering who else is going to come on board and if the Pac 12 will agree to an addition. Who is going to buy in? If Mizzou, OU and OSU bolt, the Pac 12 schools won’t bow down to the LHN, and you can’t sell other top tier programs, what is the TV value? Did you just re-create Raycom? No one can say for sure where this is headed, not even DeLoss Dodds. But, to ignore the possible downside, is just, well, ignorant. I’ve never seen anything that is all upside and I’m sure the LHN will be the same way. Losing the Aggies will be a big blow, and like the original poster, it will be a sad day for those of us who have valued the rivalries. Hell, I even immensely enjoy watching UT/A&M play every year.

Great article.

As a Longhorn alum who’s best friend is an Aggie, this is not a joyous separation.

Agree with the point above about money. I couldn’t care less how much money Texas makes. My ticket prices haven’t gone down. The LHN will not be worth it even if we have just 4 or 5 seasons of playing crap teams. My fear is that those 4 or 5 years could be similar to what we experienced at the end of the SWC. We couldn’t get good recruits at all until the Big 12 was announced. I don’t want to go through that again.

Oh, and you couldn’t mention Liverpool FC?

Best damn thing I’ve read in awhile.

I’d be all for a magnanimous gesture to keep A&M in the conference and happy, for all the reasons you describe. I’d allow the TV money to be more evenly distributed, with the schools that can sell out 80,000+ stadiums all getting equal shares. I’d also give ‘em half the LHN, both money and airtime. Like Wulaw Horn, I’d enjoy the content but I think we can fit all we need into 12 hours of programming a day :) And I don’t think most Longhorn fans would mind either. Like you said, it’s not like your average Longhorn fan sees much benefit from the money.

Does A&M deserve it? Frankly, no. UT has earned what it got through the largest alumni base in the nation, a decade of ten-win seasons and 100,000 seat sellouts. Go back to the early nineties and you see a point where A&M could have easily flown the same trajectory; instead they settled for Fran and bat guano.

But the question of “who deserves what” is an unhealthy one in a marriage. You don’t (or at least shouldn’t) tell your wife: no you can’t watch the plasma TV because you don’t make enough money to pay for it. Is that true? Sure, maybe. But if your wife is stuck in the laundry room watching a small 10" TV while you’re in the living room watching the plasma, don’t expect her to stay your wife for long.

But the people at the head of this negotiation aren’t thinking that way, on either side of it. Every emotion is feigned, employed as leverage rather than cooperative communication. The athletic programs have become big business. The CEOs of these programs are making millions for themselves and their friends. Their model isn’t June and Ward Cleaver; it’s Henry Kravis and John Paulson.

That’s a shame because the UT/A&M rivarly is actually embedded in most of our actual families. Coming from a family with split loyalties, Thanksgiving was always a spirited occasion. Lately it’s become mean-spirited. Our sibling rivalry has turned into a blood feud on a personal level, all because some millionaires want to get in a pissing match. It ain’t right.

And unfortunately the SECede Aggies have gotten their fanbase so riled up that I don’t think such a remarkable field-leveling gesture by UT would be sufficient anymore. They’ve got some serious Tea Party mojo going on (no politics kids – I’m just noting that the unwillingness to negotiate is similar, as is the serious financial support behind the scenes). That doesn’t bode well for a friendly and fair resolution.

CasinoGeezer-

He’s not saying the Aggie propaganda is true, he is simply stating that for the Aggies it is true and drives their disdain for UT. Anyone who takes a minute to look into it knows that UT has a proud tradition throughout its history of Texas-Exes serving in the military.

Dagga – A&M was invited to join with UT in the network and declined. Now that UT has done all of the upfront work, including getting all of the funding, we should invite them again? Sorry, I just don’t get it.

Ded – my understanding is that the PAC-12 network is regional. If the LHN takes off, it could fit in very nicely with the framework they already have set up.

Everyone seems to think that the LHN is a negative in joining a conference because of the attitude (real or pereived) by the PAC-10 last year. However, if it becomes very successful, it very well could be seen as a positive.

Horncasting – the rumor is, we invited them long before anyone knew it’d be a $300 million dollar deal.

And again, the point isn’t that we “should” in a business sense. We “should” in a family sense, for the same reason you were forced to share your toys with your no-good step-brother.

I think part of the problem here is there is a national component that Texas A&M cannot and will not grasp: In some way, A&M seeks national exposure and recognition, but short of sustained gridiron glory, it will not have it, regardless of who it plays each weekend.

A&M cannot be USC, Alabama, Notre Dame, or Texas without winning first. It cannot. Nobody in Peoria, Illinois is going to buy an A&M jersey until they win multiple national championships. Yet, I see people wearing Texas garb who’ve never even been to Dallas, much less Austin.

Aggies simply don’t have the extra regional identity to make the leap to the next media level: Walk through DC and ask people who Texas A&M is, and you’ll get some mix of “Don’t know” and “Some school in Texas”. They know nothing of the Corps or the tradition of A&M, yet that’s how Aggies self define and the prism through which they view the larger world.

Do that with UT and people will try to make the hookem horns and mention burnt orange and longhorns. And they all know or have heard of the University of Texas. That’s partly good marketing, but it’s mostly going 10 and something every year for over a decade in the current media environment.

Ironically, a lot of non Texans who’ve never met a UT-er in person, think that UT’s persona is boots, chew, and hillbillies. I’ve always found that sort of amusing.

Nice read, but please tell me you weren’t serious blaming a&m’s lack of success in the 40s-70s on being a military school. That’s one of the aggies’ favorite excuses, but doesn’t hold much merit when examining Army and Navy in the same period.

Money is wrecking sports. This is why you don’t want to start paying college players a stipen. It starts out small and it will end up ruining the game. Please!!! Do not pay college players!!!

Dagga – I think you’re absolutely right the A&M has gotten their fans in such a frenzy the last few weeks about the LHN and now bolting to join the SEC that there is no path to mending fences. The higher-up in A&M created an expectation within their own alumni base that has burned all the bridges and they now won’t be able to find an amicable solution to stay in the Big12 if they wanted to. It’s no longer a question of “if” aggy leaves, but “when”. However, in the meantime it makes for such wonderful theater watching the embaressing path they’re having to take there.

Ded – It’s understandable that a Tech fan would be especially upset about this given that it’s costing you your favorite biatch.

As Dagga points out, there are very few who are making the decisions for a bunch of interested parties. While the Longhorn nation has all the confidence in the world in Dodds, the rest of us are hitching our ride on his ability to develop relationships and attract future athletic programs. My confidence isn’t very high in that ability right now. The reputation of UT as it stands seems to be a program that is difficult to deal with from a business standpoint and the LHN seems to be scaring off potential suitors outside of maybe BYU. I don’t see the Catholics signing up or UT making concessions to join the PAC 12. This smells like a shit sandwich in the end and I hope Tech is at least trying to hitch on with OU and OSU to mitigate risk.

A&M seeks national exposure and recognition, but short of sustained gridiron glory, it will not have it…

No, no, no!! Not true! It’s not simply a matter of winning damn near every game you play. You must play in a league full of 400-pound gorillas, and beat most of them every year, and all of them some years. Otherwise no one will ever take you seriously.

Just ask Boise State. Or TCU.

This is a fantastic write-up, with great and thorough follow-up and commentary. This is why I visit this website.

Great article, toadvine.

Up until now I was content to say, “adios, mofo” to A&M, but I do have a sentimental side that laments the passing of traditions, people and places that are deeply ingrained into what makes us who we are.

The UT/A&M game has been a big part of being a football fan in Texas for the last century. I went to many games as a high school kid from Houston and as a UT student. However, it doesn’t matter where you went to school, that game is a yearly chapter in the history of football for this state. No, it doesn’t have the gravitas of UT/OU, but each chapter adds to the tapestry this is the state of TEXAS football (high school and college), which is a rich tradition.

As we move forward in time you can’t create new rivalries that had their origins with the birth of the programs themselves. It’s just not organic. I will miss those nut-grabbing, sheep-hugging, saber-rattling, rascals.

Speaking of “branding”, this is what I see as the biggest risk of all. Branding is like fiat currency. It’s only worth something if people believe it is. It’s not like UT is coming off a MNC. For this to work, the UT brand must stay strong. You’re coming off a 5-7 season and complete turnover of a coaching staff. You haven’t followed that up with a 10-win season yet to erase the stench. If UT goes 6-6 or some shit, then Mack is gone and the revolving door of coaches starts. We’ve been down this road before. The Aggies win 10 games or the conference, get through the red tape of secession, join the SEC, lower admission standards in a huge talent pool with no relative competition, and suddenly, I’m questioning mortgaging the future behind one strong regional brand. Is that a scenario that is more or less likely to play out in 2011 than say UT winning it all and the brand strengthening? This thing seems far from a slam dunk. I think the point of athletic conferences is to increase the bargaining power of the collective group for favorable contracts and high rated games. A co-op of sense. That bargaining power won’t be very strong for anyone involved with a .500 UT program, and all who have the ability to bolt, will do so in a heartbeat.

I grew up in a small town in east Texas. The possibility of losing the Thanksgiving Day game is not a happy one for me. It’s always been a great opportunity to catch up and hang out with old friends. I still don’t understand how it’s come to this.

Also, the premise that Florida, Alabama, LSU, and Auburn are successful due to being in the SEC is laughable. The SEC is a great conference because of those programs. Those programs aren’t great because of the SEC.

What in sam hays is going on here? Longhorn fans not in love with the longhorn network??? What are you doing on this site anyway? I thought most here couldn’t get enough UT sports and football, otherwise why are you here. To me those against the network are too timid or to scared of change. Change is good, and more UT sports is better.

I really liked this post, but I come from a different background. I went to UT because it was a good school, in a great town, with things to do. I grew up in Galveston and the only person that really told me anything about AM was my one-eyed barber. He tried to tell me that AM was the only “good” place to go. I didn’t give him a second thought, as I am not down for even a hint of manipulation and control. My own thoughts on the matter was that there was no way in hell I was about to move to pudunk ville for school unless it had the reputation of Harvard and MIT rolled into one.

So for me, the Aggies are just annoying. I guess it’s nice to feel superior every once in awhile and laugh at the aggies jealousy. But really, I kind of just want them to move on. I have got better things to do, like watch my team 24 hrs a day. But that’s just my background. And I sympathize with those with family rivalries, because that can be hecka fun.

If UT goes 6-6 or some shit, then Mack is gone and the revolving door of coaches starts.

I think your first assertion is completely wrong and your second, while possible, highly unlikely.

Thanks, Toad.

I would be fine having the Aggies be a part of our conference, wherever that ends up existing. I was more happy about this just in the hopes that it could be a catalyst to upset the whole applecart.

Much rather play in the locales that we’d see as an Indie or part of PAc West, than what we have in he Big 12. Also, seemed like it was a push toward playoffs eventually too.

A co-op of sense. That bargaining power won’t be very strong for anyone involved with a .500 UT program, and all who have the ability to bolt, will do so in a heartbeat.

Wishful thinking imo. It’s not much of a brand at all if two down years can seriously diminish it, and UT’s brand is probably the strongest in the country. I’ve seen plenty of programs weaker than Texas endure downturns of more than two years, and all it really took was the right new coach to get the program back to its previous heights. Texas could go 0-12 this year and any conference that downgraded them as a potential member on that basis would be making a laughably shortsighted mistake.

And unfortunately for the rest of the conference, bolting isn’t much of an option. I seriously doubt the Pac-16 could come into existence without Texas jumping on board. The incentive to expand just isn’t there otherwise.

Never trust a one-eyed barber.

Nice article. The problem with the sports “superiority” argument is that A&M has matched up very well with Texas in most men and women’s sports over the last five years or so. I’m talking head-to-head contests, not overall record.

Take football for instance. If the Aggies beat Texas this year as earlier predicted right here on BC, that will mean they’ve won four of the last six meetings. I bet if you lined up the major sports media mouthpieces, most of them would be ignorant of that fact.

Anyway, it’s too bad A&M is leaving just when they seem to have finally righted their sports machine enough to make the B12 even more interesting than usual……..

I hope it works out for the best, but I’m nervous about the future once the Aggies bolt. And, they will, if given the opportunity. Yeah, I somewhat blame them, but I don’t blame them either. It’s going to be a huge kick in the nuts to UT, Tech and Baylor, if OU and OSU decide to join them as far as recruiting goes, which we’ve established is the lifeblood of a football program. We’re right back to the Big 8/SWC days. Now, we’re mortgaging our future on trusting the Okies. Good call, Dodds. That will never backfire on us.

Aside from arrogance and pride on both sides, I do not see why Texas and Texas A&M cannot continue to play every year at Thanksgiving. Sure, it will not be the same without conference implications but there are plenty of other examples of out-of-conference rivalries that are alive and well today (Florida/Florida State, Georgia/Georgia Tech, Colorado/Colorado State, Iowa/Iowa State). I understand the posturing by Texas prior to A&M leaving to try and use the threat of cutting all ties as a means of keeping A&M from bolting for the SEC. But once the deal is done and they are gone, I would like to think that the powers-that-be at Texas would realize the value of this rivalry to the State of Texas and make efforts to keep it.

I have heard coaches from Mack Brown to Augie Garrido admit that there is something special about it when these two schools play each other. I would like to think that the Texas administration has recognized that this is the case and will make the efforts to maintain the rivalry across all sports. That is my expectation, regardless of how things shake out the next few weeks.

Good article, Toad. I came to UT from out of state and have no Aggies in my family, so it’s helpful to be reminded sometimes that there is more to this rivalry than the average 20-something UT fan generally thinks.

Plus my dog died on Friday and it’s a grey, rainy Monday, so the Joy Division reference in the title feels right.

The Longhorn Network is cutting edge, the first of its kind. Of course, people that don’t have a network like it are going nuts. But the first school to broadcast football over that new-fangled radio thing probably had a recruiting edge, too.

The Ags are seizing on minutia in order to justify leaving, when the thing that got most under their skin — the high school football — has been resolved in their favor for now. They realized too late that Texas was serious about doing the LHN and could get paid for it (regardless of ESPN’s motivations).

Of course, the LHN is changing the game. I also think that the loss of the Aggies is regrettable, but I wouldn’t recommend dropping the LHN in order to keep them as a rival. There is no going back.

As a Texas fan who never attended college,and had little understanding of the history of this rivalry I really appreciate this article. Thank you.

The world of college football is changing outside of our little rivalries. This “greed” that you complain about is a nationwide phenomenon. All programs are doing whatever they can to maximize revenue. More revenue means better facilities, higher coaching salaries, and (potentially) better players and better teams on the fields. Being content with what you have—the opposite of being “greedy”—is an acceptance of being leapfrogged by hungrier programs. I applaud Texas for being a pioneer in establishing its network and I applaud A&M for attempting it’s end-around strategy. Both approaches have risks and, unfortunately, some potentially unintended consequences. We don’t know how it will all pan out but the reality is that we don’t live in a bubble and we can’t ignore what’s happening outside of our established rivalries.

Nice read. And great points from Big Al on our brand savvy and the Aggies lack thereof.

I also am giddy about LHN. living in Chicago, the web is the may way I can follow the big sports, but i’ll happily consume a lot more content. And as a huge proponent of our Olympic sports, it’s practically a wet dream.

…and I should qualify by saying that I’m bonded to Aggies marriage. I’m a Texas grad. My wife, brother-in-law and father-in-law are all Aggies.

Very nice insight into the Aggie mindset, on target from my observation, and I’ve been watching the Thanksgiving games since we pulled our #1 ranking out of the fire and squeaked out a win in 1963. Want to add here that I think Wulaw is also on target about the LHN, especially the non-football and academic stuff. They’re going to run some things from McDonald Observatory that will blow your mind.

You have to maximize revenues in football and basketball not solely to pay coaches more money, but also to pay the freight on the non-revenue spots. Only at Texas is baseball a revenue sport.

I suppose since the LHN will be pulling in 15 million/year, and almost all the content is non-revenue sports the argument could be made that texas is essentially bundling their inventory that nobody thought had any prior value (baseball, soccer, softball, volleyball swimming/diving, women’s hoops etc) and creating value more or less out of thin air- something fewer than 5 other schools could probably do nationwide (ND and BYU b/c of their religious following make the cut- OSU maybe), that’s about it. Does anyone think Auburn has the ability to make this happen? And they are just coming off a national title.

Also, all the mouth breathers on the webs and aggies in real life talking about this being a huge football recruiting advantage (playing High School games on air) are FOS. What, is mack going to go from pulling down top 3 classes to super duper #1 clases? We already get pretty much anyone we want- so it don’t make a shit.

Where it is a 100 megaton nuclear bomb in recruiting is all those other sports. Why on earth would any baseball, softball, woman’s hooper, swimmer, golfer, tennis player etc go anywhere other than UT.

Lets see- good weather- check
Nice city- Check
Good academics- Check
Admin financially supporting program- check.

Lots of schools can say all of those things, or most of them any.

Who else gets to say to the next Cat Osterman- btw every single one of your games will be on tv. Go to A&M or OU and you will be on tv 3 times a year- when you play us. Seriously, it’s about over for our competitiors in those sports. If we are not top 5 in every single sport we participate in for the next decade (excepting basketball and football as dozens of schools can claim every game will be on tv in both those revenue sports) we have complete and total shit for brains coaches that need to be fired.

Seriously, the line will form out the door and around the corner for athletes from those sports- zero tv exposure anywhere in the country, or every single game on tv? How is that even an issue. And all the small minded idiots want to focus on Mack’s recruiting going from #3 to #1 when we already select instead of recruiting, while Coach G, Auguie, Coach Bev and all the rest will have a recruiting advantage that dwarfs what is conceivable for most coaches.

Gary Blair’s team just won a national title and will be on tv 3 times next year- as an afterthought. Coach G’s team flamed out in the first round and will have every game televised and treated as a special event, along with probably being replayed- team features, individualized profiles etc. If we aren’t punking their ass in 5 years I’m shocked.

It’s great to see these varying perspectives on the current situation. I would tend to disagree with the suggestion that the traditional differences between these two schools has greatly narrowed over the years. Longhorns and Aggies are, for the most part, people with different views, attitudes and ambitions. I, for one, like Balltastic, just find the Aggies annoying at this point. Losing the T-Day game is a small price to pay for gaining more Longhorn programming and ridding ourselves of the constant whining (and occassional winning) of the Aggies.

Wulaw, I think the first thing you have to have a huge nationwide grad base and a large number of casual fans. Texas has that.

It’s remarkable what effect Texas football and other sports can have. My daughter left for college with very little knowledge about football and no interest in sports other than baseball — she followed the Astros.

She now follows everything on TV that she can.

Great article and I’ll be sad to see A&M go. I think they should have named it something other than the Longhorn network. This is really just a regional ESPN channel.

The focus has been on high school sports, but what stops the Longhorn network from bidding on the Mavs, Spurs or Rockets?

Toadvine,

This was the best written article on this website in several years, and that’s saying something. Thank you for taking the time to craft it.

I think your own history perhaps skews your vision of Aggies – you project your family member’s view of A&M and it’s place relative to Texas onto present day Aggies. I simply do not believe that to be true any longer.

I graduated A&M in 1984. I will admit hatred of all flaming liberal orange wearing heathens was being preached whole scale as a matter of course back in those days. But A&M began to change in the late 80’s / early 90’s as the school got really serious about our academics. By 2000, with the advent of the Vision 2020 program and admittance to the AAU, A&M was a major research institution and prestigious university.

As a result, the types of students that attend the school, and thus the makeup of the Former Students, is changing. Most Aggies are from the Top 10% of their class and could attend either school – they just chose A&M. Most of the kids at A&M have lots of high school friends who attend Texas – they were all in the same AP classes together. They’re now a rival you want to beat, but no longer kill. We have just too much in common now.

That being said, why does A&M want to leave? Well, it depends on who you ask. I’m afraid most Aggies are, like most fans would be, suffering from “shiny new toy” syndrome. But I think the bigger motivator is this – Aggies view themselves as equals of Longhorns. Our school is just as big. Our endowment is of similar displacement class. The academic programs are viewed, generally, as equally prestigious. Whether anyone from Texas believes this to be true is irrelevant to most Aggies. The marketplace, per recent studies, actually puts more value on an A&M diploma.

This opportunity is viewed as a chance to NOT be compared to Texas any longer – to be recognized as an equal. There is also the percieved recruiting advantages A&M could have in the SEC, especially in football. And of coure, there is the money. The projected TV revenues from this deal would knock your socks off.

I doubt I adequately answered your question, but i gave it a shot.

@Stevie_G “Oh, and you couldn’t mention Liverpool FC?”

Ell Eye Vee
Eee Are Pee
Double-Oh Ell
Liverpool FC!

Come on, you Reds!

Toad -
 
I enjoyed this exposition of the Aggie mindset. Thanks. Folks that are quibbling about it need to consider that it’s one truth, from one family. And it’s a useful prism to understand how some Aggies view the world – even if it’s a broader fallacy.
 
Roberto -
 
Take football for instance. If the Aggies beat Texas this year as earlier predicted right here on BC, that will mean they’ve won four of the last six meetings. I bet if you lined up the major sports media mouthpieces, most of them would be ignorant of that fact.
  
This is a very Aggie response. And I don’t mean that as an insult. But it’s revealing of a mindset.
 
There is a larger world than our head-to-head matchup. That’s what we’re trying to get Aggies to get. When you define all things by us, you are in a very unhealthy cultural place. Our sports programs are nowhere in the same ballpark over the last 15 years in the major sports (football, basketball) or even our local major (baseball). That’s a irrefutable fact. The head-to-head matchup is a tiny micro measure in a macro world.
 
One game isn’t a program.
 
And if you respond with our head-to-head record over the last 15, I’m going to offer the mother of all face palms.
 
The healthiest thing Aggies can do for themselves is find an external measuring stick that isn’t in Austin, TX. You’ll be a lot happier and your programs will achieve much more. Truly.

If it’s an equality issue, then that’s the most asinine reasoning I’ve ever heard. If it’s a future conference stability issue, then I completely understand. The Aggies won’t be the equal of LSU, Bama, Florida, and Georgia, even if they’re evenly splitting recruits with UT and OU. Those schools are the #1 in-state choice for talent and always will be in a much higher concentrated talent pool. Hell, you weren’t even Arkansas’ equal last year. The Aggies could certainly improve their football team, but I highly doubt they’re able to improve their record. Might as well stay put, if equality is the reasoning.

Scipio, I think your point (that there is more to being a university than “not being Texas”) is one that eludes A&M fans. The one thing that could possibly be the best eye-opener for them would be to go 11-1 this season with their lone loss coming to Texas. Doing so would place them as winner of the Big 12 (there’s no way Texas goes undefeated this season), going to a BCS bowl, and a good candidate for the BCS Championship game. Maybe then they would realize that their ability to beat Texas head-to-head has nothing to do with all of the national attention they would be receiving.

I really shouldn’t have tried to list reasons. There are so many and they’re different for each person.

So I’ll speak for myself.

It seems evident to me that the future of college football will be some type of playoff system amongst the big schools in super conferences. As it is, there are still too many small or insignificant schools playing D1 ball.

The Big 12 has too many small schools – it is likely to die. Plus, the schools that make up this conference are not taking action to build the brand of the conference – they seem focused on thier own brand.

So some conferences are going to win and some lose. I know three of the winners – the SEC, the Big 10 and the Pac 10. We have an opportunity to be in one of those. We ought to take it.

As for tradition – I guess I’m a rebel and somewhat indifferent, especially towards Texas. I really hate Baylor, but am pretty ambivilant towards Texas. It would be nice if we still played, but not that important to me.

That would be a much more logical reasoning. Plus, the SEC is the one most surely to not include Texas, so the TV revenues should be higher. For those reasons, I can’t blame the Aggies for leaving. As a Tech guy, we don’t have any options. I just hope we don’t get fucked too hard, but I’m sure it’s going to be more than just the tip. The Big 12 has proved to be nothing more than a place for Texas to park its penis, while they wrangled in the recruiting shenanigans of the Big 8 and rebuilt their brand.

great article. there’s still very much an aversion to austin/ut and all their “libs” in rural east tx. i do have to say that i’m pretty pumped for LHN content though (especially baseball and non-revenue sports).

one question though: is it correct to assume that A&M will get none of the $300 million from the LHN? i was kind of under the impression that some of UT’s athletic profits get spread around a bit among other schools

Ded-

I think that’s incredibly disingenuous of you from a tech perspective. Yall have upgraded your stadium, your facilities and your brand while achieving national relevance in something other than women’s basketball for the first time in, well, ever.

The Big 12 has been awesome for you, and it looks like unless things get fubar’ed in a direction I don’t see them happening that we will take care of you the same way OU takes care of their little brother.

Yall are standing on our sholders or you’d be ISU. I see nothing approaching gratitude from those in this conference that Texas has carried.

Also I’m not trying to diss Tech. They might not bring a lot in terms of eyeballs or money, but they’ve been better than average in this conference and have been an exciting/amusing team to follow (with Mike Leach anyway) that adds real value to the conference. I have no problem being affiliated with Tech, provided they know their place- which is getting in the back of the line and keeping their mouth shut, while Texas works to advance it’s own interests and in doing so makes the rest of the conference way more money than they have any right to expect/deserve.

It’s a win win (for Tech, ISU, Baylor, OSU, KSU at least). I get why A&M doesn’t like that idea. They fancy themselves as something more and that grates on them. But I’d like to think that Tech has enough self awareness that they can take what they get and see that it’s their best set up.

Any article that can work in a reference to the True Believers (and a link) is worthy of one’s attention.

Toad,

Great work. I am not as old as srr, but old enough to remember A&M struggling to establish itself under Bellard and Wilson then bringing in that carpet bagging POS Sherrill. I also remember growing up in Dallas in the 70’s going to the Cotton Bowl games with my family and seeing Texas play Alabama, Penn State, and Notre Dame.

What strikes me as I look from the outside on the situation is how some of the same traits that appeared in the fall of the SWC pop their heads up again. The concept of revenue in the NFL works because the league realized long ago that there was more than enough more money to share it to keep every franchise financially sound and turn a profit.

The SEC was the first conference that I can recall that realized that if as a group that could leverage their common identity there was a great deal of money to be made and that by reinvesting back into their athletic programs they could continually strengthen the overall brand of the conference and not just football and basketball.

The Big 12 has not bought into the idea of the survival of the group is more important the the well being of one program. There are multiple reasons for this and they have been hashed over again and again on this and other sites. Reality is that half of the schools really did not either make the commitment to build their programs or have the resources and can only be a drain on the well being of the overall conference. The economic pressure on schools to compete is only going to increase and when you had a conference consisting of schools like Iowa State, CU, KSU, Kansas, Missouri, and Baylor you are looking at schools that carry almost no value in football and outside of KU little established interest in basketball.

Whether the move is the right move by A&M will remain to be seen, but it won’t be the last and schools like UH, BYU, Air Force, and TCU are not the long term answer. Once the Ags bolt it would seem the tether for UT to TT and Baylor would be gone. Would UT and say OU go to the Pac 16 and form a Southern Division of USC, UCLA, ASU, UA, CU, Utah, OU, and UT? Texas would keep its oldest and fiercest rival. Geography would make sense and that would be a damn good group for multiple sports.

Finally, in regards to the comment made about how the LHN will benefit other sports outside of the “big three” exactly when did Texas have trouble recruiting in those other sports that weren’t somehow related to either the head coach of the performance of their programs?

If anyone in those other sports should be worried about the roll-out of the LHN it should be those very coaches. In the last 5 years which head coach outside of Volleyball and Men’s swimming has had their program perform consistently at a national level that would match their compensation and the resources provided to their programs? Does anyone really believe Connie Clark’s problem is not enough money for her program? Anyone think the women’s track coach would be a little less ascerbic? Bubba less dependment on his assistants to carry the water for him? Petrucelli was given money only second to Anson Dorrance to leave ND and what has he delivered? Gary Blair is an old white guy who was coaching at SOC when I was in high school in Dallas. Goestenkors has been at UT for 4 years and is .500 in conference play. Money and exposure isn’t the issue in Austin.

The Big 12 has proved to be nothing more than a place for Texas to park its penis, while they wrangled in the recruiting shenanigans of the Big 8 and rebuilt their brand.

Saved for quoting later. With proper attribution of course.

The rhetoric has gotten completely out of control. This tweet from Andy Staples at 3:00 PM, 8/15/11:
 
Judging by the press release I just received, which essentially predicts the state’s economic collapse if A&M goes SEC, Baylor is desperate.

Thanks for all the feedback. My experience is obviously subjective. I think the student body at A&M is quite a bit different now than it was when my old man and grandfather attended, as I tried to communicate. I do think the old stereotypes still inform the general school opinion of UT, however.

I understand what everyone is saying about LHN. I just flat-put do not think the price is worth it. And I’m inclined to agree with Dedfischer — this is not a sure thing for us, not by a long shot.

If A&M wants out of the contract it wil cost them money, I have heard between 15 to 30 million dollars. If this is accurate, where will this money come from? My understanding was that Aggie was stuggling to pay for their recent building program. The new Big 12 TV deal was going to bring in some needed money but I would not think that one year would cure their finacial problems much less leave them with 15 to 30 million to burn. Would Aggie give up a year or two of TV revenue to pay off the Big 12 damages? If they did wouldn’t that put them back in the red? Anyone have any info on this issue?

Wulaw,

Your condescending bullshit aside, I think it’s been good for everyone and awesome. We went from the SWC brand of football to the consensus 2nd best quality football conference brand in the country. Which is why it’s so bizarre to me that Texas would want it to fall apart. It’s apparent UT is leading the deal, and if you can’t work with Nebraska and Colorado, then the odds of working collectively with the Mormons and Catholics are even slimmer. Which is the only way I see this thing working, if the Aggies bolt. Our wagon is hitched to Texas and understand it is our best option. It’s worked well so far. But, we are also entitled to know where this wagon train is headed, if you want it to be that way. Donner Pass? No fucking thanks. I’m not convinced UT can work with anyone other than us and Baylor over the long term, if you want to call it that. If you dick around too much with the direction of the LHN and it’s not feasible for admission into a super-conference, you’ll leave us high and dry in a heartbeat, if we complicate the 64-team math. And right now, it seems that speed is working much faster than the LHN. Look at a territory map. We’re out of options unless we go for the homerun, which seems like a longshot at this point. So back to my original issue, what do you plan on doing about it, if A&M leaves? I would imagine OU, OSU and Mizzou aren’t far behind. Do you have a plan? Is it a good one? So far, it doesn’t seem very good.

Save for the maintenance of academic excellence, the maximization of current and future sources of financial funds, especially for publicly funded institutions, is the highest priority of any University adminstration. Of course, it is part and parcel of the academic priority as well. Texas’ Admin has been very successful in that regard, and that is not greed but excellent stewardship. Texas A&M, whose athletic department is struggling and owes substantial money (essentially Texas taxpayers’ money) to its General Fund has done a shitty job. That is not our fault and any suggestion that we should have turned down an unsolicited $300 miilion contract with a major TV network is sheer lunacy. If we had done so, the BOR should have fired both Dodds and Powers on the spot!

As for uneven revenue sharing, there has never been a vote cast in the Big 12 against it, save for Nebraska, that I am aware of and Aggy was more than happy to take their extra share of the NU/CU exit money last year. I will not miss Aggy in the least. And that’s not just because of their irritating attitude about all things Texas, they just don’t really matter to me. I admire Texas Tech, who has gottem more out of less than any Texas school since the Spike Dykes days. They have performed way better than Aggy during that stretch and Tubervillee, if he stays, will only inprove that. I’d just as soon play them on T or T+1 as anyone out there.

Ded, why would OU leave a conference that they have owned in football since Stoops arrived? While they probably aren’t thrilled with the LHN, they are still going to successfully recruit Texas because they win—-big. And the jury is still out on whether they are going to try to form their own network, IMO. Going anywhwere other than the Big 12 kills that option for them in the near term if not forever. A Big 12 with BYU in Aggy’s place is as viable as what we have right now and as good an option for OU (and by definition OSU) as any until the real future of college football manifests itself in 3-5 years.

I don’t know, Jake. Maybe because the rest of us are looking at UT right now in the same fashion Pickett did Lee as he ordered the charge up Cemetery Ridge. Are you SURE this is a good idea? We’re simply following orders and hoping for the best.

dedfisher, Ag_in_TX – gotta say, one part of the problem here is the fascination of your schools with Texas’, um, relative largesse.

Let’s get one thing clear: by our conference’s revenue sharing rules, all the Fox revenue is equally split and half the ABC/ESPN revenue is equally split. The rest is distributed not by school, but by number of TV appearances on ABC/ESPN. Last year the least-televised teams in the conference should have made around 16 mil, the most televised around 21 mil. Both of your schools should have been in the middle of the pack, Tech probably around 18-19 mil and A&M closer to 20 (no hard numbers here, just estimating based on TV appearances).

In the SEC, the average TV payout was probably around 21 mil.

Let that sink in for a second.

But but but, you say, Texas has the biggest revenue in the nation! Yes, that’s true. But that’s because (a) UT’s enormous deal with IMG for the merchandising rights to the brand and (b) our donors give 10 million dollars more to the program every year than any other school in the nation. And © our basketball and baseball programs actually make some revenue.

In other words: the revenue differences aren’t because UT is parking its cock on your head. It’s because your merchandise doesn’t sell nearly as well in comparison and your Big Cigars are much more stingy than ours.

It’s true that the LHN will add an extra 15 mil to that disparity, and that’s rubbing salt in the wound. But the revenue difference between UT and A&M was 70 million in 2010, and between UT and Tech closer to 90 mil, and only 1-2 mil of that is TV revenue. The rest is an advantage that would exist even if we let you take all the TV money, including the LNH bucks.

And it should be noted: those types of disparities are the dominant ones, and they exist in every conference. Florida had 90 mil more in revenue last year than Mississippi State.

Point is: A&M is taking a huge gamble that they will join the SEC and dominate. Fall short of that, and the same financial disparities with UT will remain.

A ‘stronger’ source regarding A&M sharing in on the Network, from Bohls:

“Was to be called the Flagship Network. “It never went very far,” A&M athletic director Bill Byrne said Sunday after returning from France where the Aggie men’s basketball team was touring with exhibition games. “We had a real interest in it, but they had other interests.”

Unlike the Aggies, I’m not questioning the arrangement or the financial disparity. I’m just questioning the leadership and direction. It seems like we’re running this thing with a Greg Davis offense.

We need to ditch Baylor and possibly Tech when the time comes.

The funniest thing about all of this is that, as someone pointed out earlier (possibly a different thread), which is that as you distance yourself from Texas (the state) you find that many, perhaps most, people think of everything Texas as being a single entity… Texas Tech, Texas A&M, Texas State, Texas El Paso… it’s all “Texas” to them… and the symbol is… the Longhorn. Not the cowboy hat, not the lone star, and sure as hell not the Double-T or the aTm… it’s not even UT… it’s the ’Horns, pure and simple.

The downside is that whenever agy or Tceh does something stoopid, it reflects on us, too. That’s why we care. It’s damn near the only reason we care.

Richard Justice recently summed it up the best: “Texas has it ALL. And apparently that just isn’t enough.”

A&M agrees and after taking a year-long look at its future in the Longhorn Conference, realized that the LHN is the latest example of the status quo being steadily and irrevocably skewed to favor Texas at every possible institutional level and decided that moving to the equal-revenue-sharing and far richer SEC had brighter prospects.

ded – fair enough. But given the actual financial situation I don’t blame Dodds too much for failing to anticipate A&M’s bizarre and sudden last-second retrenchment. They’ve blown the situation way out of proportion and the internal politics within the Aggie camp is just arcane.

I DO blame Dodds for allowing this “UT is financially raping the conference” meme get out of hand. Y’all are making double the TV money you were two years ago because of him, and if there’s a Greg Davis bubble screen in all of this, it’s Dodds failure to respond to the criticism from the likes of Nebraska and A&M. It’s just not true, it’s just a plausible argument they’re exploiting to bail on the small frys in the conference and blame someone else.

Ded-

I wasn’t particularly trying to be condescending- I was being 100% serious when is said that I love reading your stuff. You are the Scipio Texas of the panhandle which is about as high a compliment as I can make, and while I cannot read tech boards and the like I can and do read you all the time.

As to the rest of what you said- I think that you are overreacting. The past 15 years UT has brought you along on a ride (and you’ve certainly maximized your opportunity which is a credit to you and why I said I have zero problem with being affiliated with Tech as a conference mate) that has greatly benefited your program. You’ve hit the ball out of the park while A&M has squandered their opportunity in such a fashion that they are now running away and leaving the conference b/c they were so short sighted that they couldn’t partner with us (or the conference in general) on a network and instead stamped their feet, cried and threatened to hold their breath in retaliation for us looking after our own best interests.

Yall were going to be a tag along with us to the Pac 16 (which would have been an awesome and epic move if not for A&M aggying it up) the same way you were to the big 12 when the SWC split.

We threw our lot in with you over UH, Rice, SMU, TCU etc and yall have benefited from it. We will take care of you in the future, if yall play your cards right. There are schools out there that we could replace A&M with tomorrow to get to 10 and not lose too much from the trade (Air Force, Louisville, BYU). Or we could merge with yall, OU and OSU to do the Pac 16 deal, or we could take yall along to the B1G or form something totally different in some consortium with UT, ND, OU, Boston College, Miami etc with yall also being with us.

Unless I’m misreading the tea leaves yall are still attached to the hip with us, and I see that being a good thing for your program, and not a bad thing for us. Unless we are really looking to go indy (which everything points to the contrary) your bread is buttered with us. Is this condecending to point out the truth? Does UT maximizing it’s own revenues harm tech in some way? My point is that it hasn’t in the past 15 years, and think about a counterfactual where UH got tagged to go to the big 12 with us and Tech ended up in the MWC or CUSA- not a pretty world- right?

I’d like to see tech become a top flight university in the next 20 years that is a viable option for kids in the state of texas. California has about 9 top flight state schools while texas has 2. That needs to change and it makes sense to me that Tech step up and become that school for kids from Fort Worth west to the panhandle, and down to El Paso. I’m rooting for that for yall, but more importantly I think Bill Powers is too. Yall shall be fine.

Yeah, so right after you snatched up the extra $20 million from the CU/NU exit money, you are leaving for what you believe is more money—-even at the expense of getting your ass kicked week in and week out.

Hypocrite much?

Andy – read my long comment above. Just not true.

OBTW, that last post was in response to Andy.

And it should be said: Richard Justice is a tool.

Dagga—Just because you say it with conviction doesn’t necessarily make it so. A&M’s leadership has crunched the numbers, reached a different conclusion than yours and is acting on it. Takes a lot of courage to make a radical jump like this……..

Ok, good. That makes me feel better, I guess. I’m just curious, if we’re a pawn of convenience, or if UT really does recognize this state needs more Tier 1 institutions, and to get there, we can’t be abandoned at this point. We’re the only other institution that the math will work out with regards to enrollment figures and filling athletic venues. I don’t even care about airing high school football games on the LHN or the additional revenue. I’m just concerned that the perception of the LHN and UT’s negotiating stance will hinder future growth of the existing conference. It needs to be held together, if at all possible, simply because the remaining institutions have agreed to generally take the high road with regards to recruiting. We aren’t the SEC or PAC 12 and good coaches recognize that, appreciate it and over time, have began to filter into everyone’s program. I don’t think we want to jeopardize that atmosphere, even if it means UT has to sacrifice some of its stance on the LHN to attract future members. Which brings me back to full circle of what future members? Is this conference economically sustainable with only UT/OU as the linchpin TV mafiosos? I mean, I’m fine with that, but I’m a little bit skeptical of the math.

Andy – Are those the same leaders crunching the numbers that put A&M in a position to consider charging students to use toilet paper?

The numbers speak for themselves, Andy. You’d make roughly 1 million more in TV revenue in the SEC this year. The exit costs for leaving will be at least 15 million, probably more. All of that is public record. Google it.

magnus = thread winner, exactly. The same ones who made more ticket revenue than UT but had to borrow 18 million from academics to make ends meet. The money management skills between A&M & UT is night and day…you’d think they don’t teach math over there.

As for sharing a regional network, Bill Byrne is lying through his Aggie teeth.

BTW a lot of the Aggie increased revenue wil be spent on higher travel expenses — a huge increase across all sports.

Do you have a plan? Is it a good one? So far, it doesn’t seem very good.

Ded,

Since Gideon dropped that ball in Lubbock, and half the conference coaches (guesstimate) voted for OU over Texas, Dodds decided to take a flame thrower to this place. Texas has been trying to get out of a conference inhabited by Baylor and Tech since the early 90’s. The only way that is going to happen is if we detonate the conference we are in, go independent for a couple of years, and get everyone else put to bed in other conferences. The plan is going swimmingly, except for the fact that it is about two years ahead of schedule.

So, if the plan sounds like a bad one, it is because you are about to get fucked.

Sorry, I love and hate Tech, hate Lubbock, and love West Texas, so I am a little sad about the divorce but really happy about the LHN cause it is going to show random games from the 80’s with cool neck rolls, afros, and poor fitting pads and jerseys. You know where I am coming from right?

Had a great trip fishing the Conejos.

Regards,

TG

Ded-

Last year when the Pac 16 talk happened Deloss Dodds was very clear that we weren’t going to leave our friends on the plains high and dry. Bill Powers as well is on record as saying the same thing. I have seen absolutely nothing that would make me believe UT is not planning on bringing tech along in wherever we end up.

And, is a conference adding Louisville or BYU really any worse than it was before A&M bolted.

A&M, for it’s entire 15 years in this conference, has been a lot of talk about potential without accomplishing jack shit. They’ve won conference one time and 2 or 3 years ago they had 6 games that were not seen fit to be broadcast on TV. Does adding Rick Pitino’s squad in hoops, who has the 2nd biggest revenue in college hoops while having a recent history of playing better football than the aggies really make us a whole lot worse? That also brings in a market bigger than anything A&M can pull by itself in Louisville.

How about Air Force. They aren’t great but they damn near beat OU last year. And if they were in a real conference instead of the Mountain West you might see people tune in for the academy affect.

BYU brings tons of mormons and general quality in hoops and football to the table. And they have their own network and we (at UT are partnering with them).

That’s be 3 schools that I’d venture we could pull tomorrow if we wanted to. Someone else mentioned CSU as a school that has more alums in Colorado than CU and is expanding to 35 or 40,000 students. It’s also in a growing region.

Now, none of those 4 schools make me super excited, but if we arne’t going big I’d think we could pull any of the four off the scrap heap tomorrow and they’d approximate 75-110% of what A&M brought (with BYU bringing more to the table imo than A&M). Not that this is the best option, or what we are striving for, but rather how I see a worst case scenario playing out.

Texas does have to be smart about this. I don’t know too many Longhorns who want to financially annihilate the rest of the conference. If it is in A&M’s best interest to go SEC then more power to them. They have made this football season a lot more fun whether they go or stay.
Tweeking Aggies should be a D-1 sport. I hope UT, OU, Tech and OSU are able to stay together whenever realignment occurs.

Ok, I guess if it works on the calculator, then I’m fine with it. I don’t really want to go to a conference with USC and Oregon, if at all possible. It seems like we’re competing with the leftovers of the ACC/Big East for the 4th super conference and I’m not sure the TV set count is enough to cover the difference under that scenario. However, there’s nothing to say that there couldn’t be 5 super conferences, I suppose.

How about Air Force. They aren’t great but they damn near beat OU last year. And if they were in a real conference instead of the Mountain West you might see people tune in for the academy affect.

First considering the major restrictions Air Force deals with, they are damn good.

Second, I don’t think Air Force will consider the Big 12. Of all the schools available, Air Force has the least incentive to join, The purpose of the Academy is to produce fighter pilots, not football players. They can’t get “better recruits” for the football team, they can’t compromise their academic or more importantly their pilot standards to recruit a bunch of 300 lb lineman, and they can’t offer football scholarships, so essentially they would be dooming themselves to getting beat on in a tougher conference than the MWC.

In addition, Air Force has significant historical regional rivalries with UW, CSU, and UNM. I just don’t see them accepting an invitation to the Big 12 unless several other MWC schools are also invited.

Just my 2 cents worth. If we’re talking about who to add to keep the Big12 viable here is my opinion. Bring in 3 schools to get us back to 12 by adding BYU, Colorado St., and Boise St. I think CSU and Boise jump at the chance, and BYU likely comes as well if those schools do since they’ve complained for years about wanting into the BCS party.

To me BYU makes up for aggy on the field. When you consider the Mormon population and the way it’s dispersed along with the TVs in Utah it could combine to be competitive with aggy.

CSU to me is a wash with Colorado or better. The last decade or so they were comparable on the field even with CSU stuck in the MWC. As mentioned in a post above, CSU has more alums than CU, is expanding, and the demographics of the alumni are more sports oriented.

Finally Boise is an up and comer as the replacement for Nebraska. They might struggle for a year or two until their recruiting catches the talent level up, but they’ve already developed a name and I think could field above average teams. Let’s be honest, other than the last couple of years Nebraska was mediocre for a decade and I’m not sure they will ever consistently be an elite school again due to the recruiting “advantages” and shenanigans they got away with prior to the Big12. They’ll occaisionally be really good like right now, but I don’t think they have the recruiting base to consistently be elite again. That being the case Boise doesn’t have to be elite to replace them. As far as TVs, Nebraska had some national recognition but in terms of actual markets there’s not a hell of a lot in Nebraska. Boise might not get as many TVs but it could be in the ballpark.

Plus all three schools are in markets that don’t overlap with current schools.

That said, I still think the best prospect for long term prosperity for Texas is either the PAC-16 or the Big Six(Ten)teen.

Thanks, Wulaw and Nunna. good to see others besides me realizing that BYU is at worst a wash with Aggy and most likely an upgrade, not only on the field but they’ll bring in the Salt Lake City and possibly some of the Denver marketplace.

I hadn’t really thought about CSU or Louisville, but they make economic sense if we were to go to 12, which I don’t think we’ll do for a while yet.

Hell, this is looking better and better all the time.

…and it’s goodbye to aTm…

As a guy on the Tech board brought up, UT and OU hanging onto to Tech and OSU provides a huge bargaining chip with regards to market share in the central time zone programming slot. In other words, when the networks start bidding for CTZ college football programming, it is Texas and Oklahoma and that’s it. They’re not/weren’t paying for Nebraska, although they were a bonus, they still don’t pull the national weight. My take was that super conference realignment wasn’t possible without the CTZ market and a UT/OU alliance controls the destiny of when/how that happens. The Big 10/SEC/ACC-Big East merger all compete with each other from an eastern time zone programming perspective, which is a luxury of a UT/OU anchored conference regardless of what members decide to stay or go. They can feed the beast, so long as they don’t split from each other. Interesting point.

It would also be really sweet to add Notre Dame. They could then develop a big rivalry with Baylor in which a golden replica of the King James Version was played for every year call The Separatist Trophy. I’ve seen Dodds’ suits on TV and I’m just not sure he’s the type of guy who has the creative capacity to come up with and sell these type of great marketing ideas. BYU and ND could play for a replica trophy of some birth control pills or something. That’s gold.

First, as long as we are talking temporary allegiances until the LHN is up and running, not permanent super conferences, I like the idea of adding CSU, it would really piss off CU if CSU was in a BCS conference.

BYU would be a very good choice, but I’m not sure they would see much of a gain UNLESS they don’t get any run in the MNC chase because they are independent, and they might be hurt if the Big 12 is as temporary as it seems

I don’t know what to think of Lousiville, they seem like a reach to me.

KState starting their own High Def network. KState Armageddon

OMG, A SCHOOL BRANDED NETWORK. IT’S ARMAGEDDON FOR THE BIG12 AND COLLEGE FOOTBALL.

Where are all the posts that KState is selfishly brining about the downfall of the conference?

Great, so now KSU is going to scare off KU basketball.

I don’t favor 12 schools for the sake of 12 schools. I’m not going to lose my shit over the idea of adding a csu to stay at 10 teams, but I don’t want to add people for the sake of adding people that don’t bring anything to the table to get to 12 just because.

The only way I see this conference going to 12 is if we could get a ND type to balance the league out geographically. If BYU and the domers sign on I’m fine with adding anyone to get to 12. But, we cannot add 3 mouths to feed and dilute the money etc just for the sake of getting to 12.

10 is really cool in a lot of ways- play everyone in football, home and home in hoops and a perfect baseball schedule. 12 adds some headaches and inconvenience and if you can’t get really high quality (Domers, BYU and somebody else) we should avoid that while adding a stop gap to get to 10 and keep the TV money and AQ status flowing.

Ded- it seems like you are off the ledge. The point about UT and OU controlling the central time zone (with Tech and OSU as tag alongs) is exactly what I meant when I said that we are joined at the hip with you (and OSU with OU). Yall add benefit as a second tier/secondary rival with big state U, you play quality football (but not too quality which is also something UT and OU want) and bring stuff to the table by being our sidekicks that you would not bring to the table by yourselves.

If I can see that then I know Deloss can as well. It’s a good thing for both of our programs (UT and OU) if yall beat us 2 out of every 8 years- it shows that yall are credible and gives yall occasional run, while not making it feel for us like we are running a gauntlett to get through to the National Title. A big 12-2 team basically has to come through unscathed to play for it all b/c we won’t ever get the SEC type benefit of the doubt with 1 loss in my opinion.

The way the conference is currently set up is perfect for UT and OU- 1 huge national rivalry game, 3 or 4 conference games with back end of the top 25 type teams (pick 3 of 4 between Tech, OSU, Mizzou and Kansas/Kansas St) and 3 or 4 walk overs that are unloseable for a team with National Title aspirations- ISU, Baylor, kansas/ksu. We don’t need a harder schedule than that. Add in 1 quality out of conference game against a 2nd tier school in another major conference (purdue, ole miss, stanford, UCLA or BYU type) and we are good to go, imo

There is a larger world than our head-to-head matchup. That’s what we’re trying to get Aggies to get. When you define all things by us, you are in a very unhealthy cultural place.

I’ve been noting this ever since the Lone Star Big Deal came into existence. The Ags have been determined to win it, bumping up track — worth four points — and golf and everything no one cares about in order to claim superiority over Texas. But the day Texas compares itself to A&M is the day the AD should be fired.

“why is the bedroom so cold….” – Ian Curtis.

It seems there is a bigger, deeper disdain from A&M than ever before, just looking at the recent factual activity. I dont mind them leaving…they will always be there, like VHS tapes..you will see them on occasion.
 
But the Turkey day tradition (or thereabouts) should stay intact, regardless of what transpires from this football fiasco.

All this drama of TV network, SEC, etc etc…that is for the daytime soaps.

SAVE IT FOR THE FIELD, PLAY SOME FOOTBALL DAMN IT! GET OVER IT!

Nunna: Boise’s a bad choice. You’re buying high, and with a stadium that seats fewer than 35,000. They don’t have the ante for this game.

Although the A&M brand management does suck, everything is still going to plan for A&M. This weekends non events were steps in process to cover all bases, response to Texas’ weak attempt to block with lawsuit threats. It’s easy to see thru an Espn headline that says something different than anything actually in the story.

Can’t wait to recount Chip Brown and Espn’s accuracy in about 1 week.

But the Turkey day tradition (or thereabouts) should stay intact, regardless of what transpires from this football fiasco.

No. Let them go and move on.

Toad, great read, thanks for that.

A&m has been unhappy in the relationship for a while. Sure, they share some of the blame. They could go and deal with high school game issues and conference game issues, and spend all this energy fighting Texas in name of the rest of conference. Then, get lied to and placated, and start the process over again next year? And year after that?

A&M is being proactive and capturing the revenue the market is willing to bear; instead of waiting for B12 to disintegrate, and risk not controlling their own destiny.

Dagga, maybe A&m could just return the $20M IOU they got from Beebe as their exit fee.

They won’t be

from Ag_in_TX:
This opportunity is viewed as a chance to NOT be compared to Texas any longer – to be recognized as an equal.

He comes soooo close to getting it, then comes up with this discordant note. He’s right that the aggies NEED to move away, and that they absolutely, positively NEED to stop comparing themselves to Texas, and defining themselves by being NotTexas. And then he falls right back into it – wanting to be recognized as an equal to Texas…

Can they redefine themselves to be something that doesn’t need that acceptance of equality from anyone else? I don’t know. I especially don’t know that it can happen in the SEC, but what the heck, they’ve got to give it a try somewhere.

In the end, they’ll most likely never be “equal”. There are just too many built-in advantages, and even when they’re up and we’re down, our hold on the non-aggie part of the state is just too broad and too strong. But… they can be so much more than they have been. And, whether we like to admit it or not, they’ve taken a lot of steps to do just that in non-football, non-athletic areas.

They’ll end up in the SEC because they’re such a potentially lucrative partner for them. They’ve always been a sleeping comatose giant. And if they no longer have Texas competing with them, they can perhaps choose to wake and become something greater than NotTexas.

Plus, hopefully, they’ll quit being a dirty team…

srr50 said: August 15th, 2011 at 6:39 pm
But the Turkey day tradition (or thereabouts) should stay intact, regardless of what transpires from this football fiasco.

No. Let them go and move on.

Absolutely agree. We get nothing out of continuing to play them if they leave. Recruiting-wise it will only help them not us. An extra game in state that they can sell recruits on.

Cmon people. Where’s the outrage by all the LHN critics over the KState network and accusations of it being the downfall of conference.

Don’t forget Missouri’s internet network.

If anyone in those other sports should be worried about the roll-out of the LHN it should be those very coaches. In the last 5 years which head coach outside of Volleyball and Men’s swimming has had their program perform consistently at a national level that would match their compensation and the resources provided to their programs? Does anyone really believe Connie Clark’s problem is not enough money for her program? Anyone think the women’s track coach would be a little less ascerbic? Bubba less dependment on his assistants to carry the water for him? Petrucelli was given money only second to Anson Dorrance to leave ND and what has he delivered? Gary Blair is an old white guy who was coaching at SOC when I was in high school in Dallas. Goestenkors has been at UT for 4 years and is .500 in conference play. Money and exposure isn’t the issue in Austin.

ITA.

However, the fact that those coaches are still there has shown that neither Dodds nor Plonsky place much value in, oh I don’t know, winning championships. Yet, those coaches continue to get paid princely sums (it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if they weren’t in the top 5 in their respective fields in terms of pay).

But the day Texas compares itself to A&M is the day the AD should be fired.

I disagree. The day Texas athletics pales in comparison to A&M is the day the AD(s) should be fired.

Should read: “it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if they were in the top 5 in their respective fields in terms of pay.”

I am a T-shirt Longhorn fan so take my opinion for what its worth, but I became a longhorn fan from a family friend who was on the baseball team and allowed me to be a bat boy at some of the games and even go into the locker room and hang out with the players. I married into an Aggie family and I love them but there seems to always be a tendency for them to blame things on the longhorns that have really nothing to do with them. Everything is always civil between us but what I will say is this was a great read and unfortunately something you will never see on any A&M site. Please someone point out an article like this from an A&M site if you know of one as it would make me feel better. I just don’t think this kind of sentiment runs both ways.

Fantastic piece. You even managed to change my much beleagured outlook on the whole situation.

“Plus, hopefully, they’ll quit being a dirty team…”

No school looking to join the SEC is in the mood to be cleansed; the tub is full of mud.

While I presume you were noting on-field play, A&M might as well hire Jackie Sherrill as recruiting coordinator if this move is made.

While I presume you were noting on-field play, A&M might as well hire Jackie Sherrill as recruiting coordinator if this move is made.

Even Sherrill couldn’t make Mississippi State into a winner.

“Even Sherrill couldn’t make Mississippi State into a winner.”

Well, he had them playing well for a few years anyway. Not a powerhouse, but better than the cowbell bunch was accustomed to witnessing. Those pesky violations came across the radar again though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Sherrill#Mississippi_State
“In thirteen seasons in Starkville, Sherrill coached the Bulldogs to a record of 75–75–2. His 75 wins are the most in school history. He led the team to an SEC West title in 1998, and a berth in the Cotton Bowl Classic. A year later, he notched a 10–2 record and #12 final ranking. That #12 ranking was the highest final ranking achieved by any NCAA Division I-A school in Mississippi in over 30 years. Sherrill, along with Bill Snyder of Kansas State, were among the first to use the rich JUCO systems of their respective states to help their programs progress.

Although Sherrill won only seven games in his last three seasons, he built Mississippi State into a consistent winner despite playing in the same division as powerhouses like Alabama, Auburn and LSU. He also finished with a winning record against in-state rival Ole Miss (7–6). Under Sherrill, the Bulldogs went to six bowl games; before his arrival they’d only been to seven bowls in 96 years of play."

Joetx: Evaluating coaches by whether they win a championship is a good way to guarantee that you won’t win one.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-texasam-sec

"There is no bid," Loftin said. "There has never been a bid to invite us into the SEC at any time in the past…"

The pain, it burns.

@ BiH – So we shouldn’t expect our coaches to win at least conference championships, especially given that they have arguably the best/most resources in the nation at their disposal?

from that same article:

"I’ve read the bylaws of the Big 12 and they’re confusing to some extent," Loftin said when asked about what costs could be associated with leaving.

Was it here or on BON that, back in the earlier, triumphalist stage of this drama, some aggie chortled that Loftin was playing chess while Dodds was figuring out how checkers worked?

It’s so classically aggie that they’re sitting at the table between Dodds and Mike Slive, and they think about the Rounders quote:

Listen, here’s the thing. If you can’t spot the sucker in the first half hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker.

to be fair, Loftin is not really “confused” by the bylaws. He just hasn’t found a way around them…

He led the team to an SEC West title in 1998, and a berth in the Cotton Bowl Classic.

That win over Sherrill in the ’99 Cotton Bowl was sooooo sweeeettttt.

Loftin said. "There has never been a bid to invite us into the SEC at any time in the past…"

I wonder how the aggys will spin this.

@ BiH – So we shouldn’t expect our coaches to win at least conference championships, especially given that they have arguably the best/most resources in the nation at their disposal?

I think conference championship contention is a legitimate measure.

People know if a program is making progress or stagnant, and it doesn’t make sense to cut someone loose after four or five years if they can show they have a nationally competitive program. You’ll have that much harder a time attracting the next good coach if you whack the predecessor too soon.

I pretty much agree with everything Big Al has to say.

The biggest problem regarding aggy is how they have gone about this. They are making a business decision personal. They wanted to go to the SEC last year, but UT called their bluff.

They wanted to make it appear as though they were happy in the Big 12, and UT leaving for the Pac 10 was “forcing” them into the arms of the SEC. When UT came back and said we are also happy in the Big 12, let’s keep it together, aggy said “fuck.”

The LHN was aggy’s new platform to leave the Big 12 and blame it on Texas. If they want to go to the SEC, fine, do it. But say its because that is what you WANT to do aggy, not what you are being forced to do.

That is how aggy has mishandled this whole situation, along with what Big Al said.

Interesting stat I saw on the Tech board. Since the formation of the Big 12, the Aggies are a combined 15-30 against UT, OU and Tech. I wonder how they will fare against Bama, LSU, and Auburn.

Interesting stat I saw on the Tech board. Since the formation of the Big 12, the Aggies are a combined 15-30 against UT, OU and Tech. I wonder how they will fare against Bama, LSU, and Auburn.

I’m sure the ags argument will be that with the move to the SEC their recruiting will improve so much they’ll be taking 5 star recruits as walk-ons. They’ll have so much talent that Bama, LSU and others will be forfeiting rather than suffer the merciless beating at the hands of A&M.

What’s weird is that they are 5-10 against each program. Using the Aggies as a metric, I guess Tech has joined college football’s elite.

@ BiH – How much time should a coach be given then? Outside of Goestenkors, who has been on the 40 Acres for a handful of years, just about every other coach has been at UT for much, much longer.

At some point, given the tremendous resources at UT, the decision needs to be made that a coach just isn’t cutting it.

I know every body blames the administrations and greed etc. but a lot of it falls back on the fans and their expectation of winning. Every fan base expects their team to win every game, every year and if they don’t win they start calling for the coach’s and/or the AD’s head. Did you hear the talk shows and blogs last year after just one disapointing season at TEXAS?. People were ready to turn on one of the most successful coaches to ever coach at TEXAS. Whoever is losing, spends more money, hires a new coach, improves their facilities and intensifies their recruiting efforts so they can win more games. All of these things require money. Once they start to win that means some body new is losing. Then that team starts to outdo the other teams and puts some body else in the position of loser . The cycle just keep repeating itself. Every body equates money with winning now days and so every body is looking for a way to make more of it. They know if they don’t then the alumnus will be up in arms and they will be out of a job. We are stuck in an endless loop and I don’t see any end in sight.

Well said. I thought I was the only one not excited about their departure. I don’t need the LHN, I don’t even have cable. Should have put that energy into a Big12 network with great internet streaming capabilities. Now THAT would have made a difference in my ability to see more Horns games. LHN, not so much. Greed has a stranglehold on everyone these days, and cash moves everything around me.

BiH,

Which coach did I name has not had adequate time to build their program to a competitive level? That includes Gail. Four years into her program and she has a losing record in conference and if you pull out the games versus Miss. Valley State, Northwestern State, Idaho State, Boston University, Texas Pan American, and Sam Houston State the team has a losing record for the year and the states are downright ugly. A wonderful ROI based upon her resume coming to UT from Duke, the glowing biography on Texas Sports, and the resources and exposure she is afforded by the program.

If all Plonsky and Dodds want from Geno, Bubba, Connie, Bev, and Gail is good kids graduating great, but at some point and time shouldn’t these programs stay competitive with their peers in the conference let alone the nation?

We aren’t talking programs being run on Wal-Mart budgets so there is no reason to expect one or two make a run at a title every now and then and please tell me which program would not a stack of resumes a foot deep if one of those coaches got cut loose.

Austin Horn,

Texas pushed a Big XII network in 2006 or 2007 (srr50 can you correct me please) and was shot down by the rest of the conference. That is when they started the ball rolling on the LHN.

We pushed for a Big 12 netowork — and it was voted down 11-1. We then began to performing due diligence on our own. Our administration, while always enjoying expanding its reach, is like any other large entity — it is risk aversive. So we proposed a Lone Star Network with the Aggies — whose paranoia didn’t allow them to even entertain the idea.

Good read.

Many of the comments I have read here and elsewhere ask a similar question, “How can a school so tradition based want to end such a tradition?” With all do respect, do yall look at any sources outside of ESPN. Our administration, both last year and this year made it clear that we do wish to continue this game, even on Thanksgiving.

I have friends that attended both A&M and Texas and I always enjoyed some good natured ribbing. The one thing I never did understand was the personal attacks on each other’s schools. At A&M we have a saying, from the outside looking in you cant understand it; from the inside out you cant explain it.

As much as I want to go SEC, here’s to 100 more years of good football.

srr50, you do realize something like 75% of the profit from that network was going to Texas, leaving the aggies with 25%. Would you accept those terms?

If the market supports those terms you would. (re UT revenue is 2x A&M Revenue)

Lets put it this way…

You and one other person are offered the same job, he is getting paid 3x as much as you. You know that before accepting the job. No one in their right mind would accept those terms.

I think we have moved past the point of trying to only compete and be judged by our record in any sport with UT. Check the director’s cup standings for the past two years. Our motivations for leaving are more concerned with having these achievements recognized finally on the national scale. All of our programs are on the rise and it is time to not be defined by our past.

srr50, you do realize something like 75% of the profit from that network was going to Texas, leaving the aggies with 25%. Would you accept those terms?

Your version of the truth isn’t mine.

Truth -

I get what you’re saying, but let’s look at it another way. I’m fresh out of college and am applying for the same job as someone who’s been in the field for 30 years. His or her experience, maturity, and overall portfolio means that they would demand a higher salary than I could. It would be up to the company making the hire to decide what our salaries would be.

People are paid what they are worth to the company – that’s how it works.

Good read. I am a fan of the Ags going to the SEC because it’s a chance to get a new measuring stick in athletics, and a great chance for displaced Aggies like me to see our team on TV every week. Further, I’m hopeful that Dodds will decide to keep the thanksgiving game on the schedule because Texas will need the game when the inevitable move to independence happens.

The most interesting question for me is what does this mean for LHN and OU? Texas may not need A&M, but without OU the big 12 is essentially the WAC with one huge national brand. If I’m LHN, I’m going back to the negotiating table to give OU whatever it wants, or I’m saying screw it, let’s crash the big 12 and go independent.

Also,on the whole Texas/A&M rivalry thing, I think it’s important because the student bodies are so similar demographically and different ideologically. It’s a fun comparison of styles, and a great way to make my Thanksgiving treks back to Texas more manageable in the midst of all of that sometimes unbearable weekend under one roof.

… you do realize something like 75% of the profit from that network was going to coming from Texas, leaving the aggies with 25%. Would you accept those terms?

you could always try to prove my new improved version wrong by starting out your own network and seeing how that went…

bah, format fail….

strike 75% going to Texas and replace with 75% coming FROM Texas…

I’m a Longhorn and I’m worried. I’m worried we’ve made some poor life choices.

I’m worried that we are the smart, handsome, athletic high school QB, who everyone seems to like but secretly loathes out of jealousy. I’m worried that we got the hottest girl in town (ESPN) knocked up, got married (20 year contract) and are currently due to have a baby (Longhorn Network). That doesn’t sound like a hardship at all but all of our peers, who really aren’t as smart or athletic as us (Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M, Missouri) are going off to college and we are going to have to stay at home to meet our parental and marital responsibilities (Longhorn network contract). Sure, in the Long run, what with the cost of college (contract breach fees) they may not be financially better off than us, but they are going to become so much more worldly, hang out with interesting new people (teams), and maybe even come away with a quality degree (championship), and we will have to stay at home and hang out with the Morons who couldn’t even get into college even if they wanted to (Texas Tech, OK State, Iowa State, K State etc.). The back up QB (OK) may stay around, at least he was as athletic as us and will be a good gym buddy now and again (RRR), but really we should be going out and seeing the world, we’ve got everything going for us.

Of course we wouldn’t want to go to the south (SEC), those guys are a little bit too stuffy for us, and really are not our intellectual equals, even if they’ll do for our neighbors (Aggy). Heading North would be intellectually stimulating, certainly, but I worry how we will do with those winters. We could start our own business (independent), and we may get to do some business travel, but the people you meet on business travel are so superficial, sure we should be able to get some loyal customers (BYU, Notre Dame), and even do some deals with our old buddies (Oklahoma, A&M) but what we really need is our own college experience. Somewhere where we can find our intellectual peers while not having to deal with those harsh winters (Cal, Stanford, UCLA, UW, UCLA, USC). Yes, we need to head out West and go off to college too, somewhere we will be appreciated for our intellect and not envied. Somewhere that independent thought, creativity, and well, reading, are values that are admired not scorned. Somewhere we fit in. We can still keep in touch with our old buddies, we’ll catch up at thanksgiving to see how things are going. Maybe even take a mid term trip to Dallas. Maybe even one or two of them will come with us the backup QB (OK) might be able to get an athletic scholarship (he certainly hasn’t got the grades!!)

Alas I think it may be too late, the baby is about to be born (longhorn network) and those metaphorical hand cuffs placed on us. We are going to have to stay around this town and watch all our friends go off to college, smug that they finally will have 1 on the QB they always envied. Sure we’ll have our community college diplomas (championships ) which should come fairly easy too us given our talents , but we’ll have to look on enviously if our peers ever get their degree (championship) from a truly challenging college (conference). We really should have worn protection (due diligence) that night, sure we felt like the king when we finally nailing the hottest girl in town (ESPN), but now being committed to her is starting to look like a poor decision. We are going to have to change the diapers (show practices), we won’t get as much action as we thought we would (high school games) and we aren’t able to leave. Its no wonder those conservatives next door are so against abortion.

Poor life decision.

The Big 12 would have lived longer if equal revenue sharing existed. Isn’t that a given in a conference?

If schools don’t want to share, they should go independent.
If no one stands up to the 800-pound gorilla, nothing will ever change.
It’s everyone’s fault.

Seriously though. Anyone who thinks that the aggies are foolish for wanting to join the SEC given the level of competition are scraping the argument barrel just plain jealous. If you take that argument to its logical conclusion, what you are recommending is that what they should be doing is quitting the Big 12 for the WAC where they can play Texas State and UTSA (maintaining local games I must add). If the aggies are sure they won’t lose the thanksgiving game with UT (the only real reason to stay) they should leave. They have an opportunity to be part of a stable league, and play great teams week in week out. I have always hated any argument that went along the lines of teams scheduling a season that they can do well in. Schedule a bunch of weak teams at the start to give yourself a chance of a bowl? Why do you want to get into a bowl? to play a great team in a great stadium! You do that every week in a good conference. The Big 12 was, and arguably is a good conference but with the loss of Nebraska, Colorado, A&M and possibly Missouri it starts to look less and less relevant. We should go and join the Big 10 or Pac 12. My preference is the Pac 12. Either will ensure we continue to have great games week in week out. We can keep the RRR and Thanksgiving game, and leave only 1 game left for our AD to play with (Seriously only one Florida _______ game a year, please). I don’t know about anyone else, but I would rather have a season full of great games on the schedule, than the chance of 1 great one at the end.

The General said:

August 16th, 2011 at 2:59 pm

Austin Horn,

Texas pushed a Big XII network in 2006 or 2007 (srr50 can you correct me please) and was shot down by the rest of the conference. That is when they started the ball rolling on the LHN.

srr50 said:

August 16th, 2011 at 4:58 pm

We pushed for a Big 12 netowork — and it was voted down 11-1. We then began to performing due diligence on our own. Our administration, while always enjoying expanding its reach, is like any other large entity — it is risk aversive. So we proposed a Lone Star Network with the Aggies — whose paranoia didn’t allow them to even entertain the idea.

Anyone have any links to sources for:

1. The vote on a Big 12 network; &

2. A&M saying no to a Lone Star Network?

As to the former, I’ve only read general statements from Steve Hatchell that some Big 12 members were against the idea (I don’t know if the vote would have to be unanimous or how many “yea” votes would be required).

As to the latter, i’ve only read vague statements here at BC quoting Chip Brown.

Bit late to the party but really great read, possibly the best thing you guys have put out. It’s great to see a perspective that’s really seen both sides up close and personal.

It’s funny, if I look back and consider my current job (a creative position in media) and the fact I’d rather live in Austin than anywhere else in Texas you’d think I would’ve gone to UT. I made the absolute right decision at the time, however, and wouldn’t change it. A&M was exactly the right place for me to be to for so many reasons.

Personally I’m torn on the idea of the Ags leaving, and I don’t necessarily like the way some parts of the process have been handled, but I can totally understand why. Posters here seem to be trying to dumb it down to being all about the LHN or high school games or one singular issue and it isn’t, although those are all contributing factors. When it all comes down to it the simple fact is that the Big 12 isn’t built for the long haul and many have observed that, and when it’s quite obvious that Texas is the ones calling all the shots in the conference it makes it all that harder to rationalize sticking around. If you have a chance to leave for a more lucrative, stable situation all the better.

I will miss the rivalries though and hope that at least the Thanksgiving Day game sticks around, though I’m not holding out hope.

Pistol, your metaphor leaves out a couple of significant facts. You aren’t living in a backwards go nowhere town and you have an awesome paying job that can take you anywhere. And you married into money and power.

“I have always hated any argument that went along the lines of teams scheduling a season that they can do well in. Schedule a bunch of weak teams at the start to give yourself a chance of a bowl? Why do you want to get into a bowl? to play a great team in a great stadium!”

The SEC does have competitive teams, but they also routinely schedule weaker non-conference teams so they can worry more about that conference strength down the line. I think it’s fairly customary for SEC teams to schedule one game that could be considered an equal (BCS conference anyway) and then throw in some lower division teams like Florida A&M or Georgia Southern and maybe some from a Sunbelt Conference or equivalent. Most of these opponents won’t be able to win, but they’re better than team scrimmages and you can still get fans to the home stadium to spend money. Teams from every conference deal with these things in scheduling and try to find a balance they can live with.

My main question is for the Aggies here. In an ideal world, what would it take for A&M to stay in the Big12? I wish we could start that conversation.

re: Monahorns
http://barkingcarnival.fantake.com/2011/08/15/love-of-will-tear-us-apart/#comment-216602

I’m not an Aggie, but I think equality is a big thing. I think the Aggies are terribly frustrated that they are getting little-brother-treatment when they want peer-respect.

So, respect and equal revenue sharing— problems that could be alleviated if the Big 12 were to act like a conference.

Once the Big 12 burns to the ground, I wonder if UT and the others will be forced to share money in their new conference(s).

Team Dirty Leg. I stand by the metaphor. The backwards go nowhere town isn’t Austin (clearly), it is the Big 12 which lets be honest is going no where, and given the inhabitants left if TAMU and MO head off might be described as backward. Our best chance of attracting a new member is BYU. Nuff said.

Indeed we married for money and power, but money you can’t buy you quality friends, just hangers on. We may have also misjudged the power we have. Ask yourself this, assuming the SEC gets TAMU and one or three others. Does a 1 loss SEC champ get the nod over an unbeaten Big 12 champ for a national championship shot?

“I’m not an Aggie, but I think equality is a big thing. I think the Aggies are terribly frustrated that they are getting little-brother-treatment when they want peer-respect.

So, respect and equal revenue sharing– problems that could be alleviated if the Big 12 were to act like a conference.

Once the Big 12 burns to the ground, I wonder if UT and the others will be forced to share money in their new conference(s)."

This perception is a huge part of the problem and I can’t say it any better than Dagga did with his explanation:
http://barkingcarnival.fantake.com/2011/08/15/love-of-will-tear-us-apart/#comment-215859

You think the SEC is an episode of Friends? Please.

The problem with metaphors is that they sometimes become a proof surrogate.

As to the latter, i’ve only read vague statements here at BC quoting Chip Brown.

Byrne confirmed it in a backhanded manner the other day by saying Texas did offer and that they were interested but (somehow) Texas’s priorities were different.

This makes little sense, since the subsequent alternatives were to make a deal — that didn’t happen — or for A&M seriously to explore its options in a manner that would become public in some way (much as Texas did with the LHN) — that didn’t happen, either. Instead, Byrne told the Aggies that the LHN was not viable.

So respect and equal revenue sharing? That’s it?

Revenue Sharing: Didn’t A&M have the chance to relinquish the extra money with UT and OU from Colorado and Nebraska which would have essentially made this happen? The report was that UT and OU were willing to but A&M wasn’t. Okay. Since A&M was the obstacle before this sounds like an immediately doable thing.

Respect: This one should be much more difficult. It causes me to ask a follow up question. What will it take for A&M to feel respected? I realize UT and offended A&M through ESPN over the last month. Is that it? Or are there other things. If it is strictly over the LHN. Most of the issues have been addressed but that doesn’t make up for the trust that was lost. How can UT make up for it? Make permanent the “no high school games” rule? Give up the 2nd televised football game? Or just making it nonconference? Publicly and privately apologizing and promising to make sure future activities will be done with one eye on how the conference (i.e. A&M) is affected? That’s a tough one. Anybody?

Can anyone give me facts or links to the following:

1. EVERY Ag I know said the past year that A&M had an offer from the SEC?
Bowtie says no. Which is it?

2. Didn’t every school except Neb vote for unequal revenue sharing since day one?

3. Didn’t DeLoss approach In$ecure Bill about a network that Byne turned down? I swear I read it in one of Byrne’s Wednesday Wackjobs last fall and perhaps saw a video too of him addressing that it would never work and therefore turned down DD.

Help me. My Ag friends suddenly have amnesia…

There seem to be a lot of opinions about the reasoning aggy may or may not want to leave, but it seems to boil down to a desire for equality and respect. I think getting lost in the shuffle of all this is what commands that respect, at least in terms of our discussions here – WINS. Bottom line – aggy would have more respect, money, and leverage if they won more ball games.

The SEC move is interesting, and I THINK good if aggy is in it for long term. Unless they end up like Arkansas (who was once a national powerhouse) or worse. Aggy had some really good years in the early 90’s but a national powerhouse, they are not, and I’m trying to wrap my head around (as is everyone else) how well they will compete in the SEC. The road to a BCS bowl and national championship is definitely shorter through the big 12, and so far aggy has only attained one of those in 15 years…..how is that going to translate to the SEC exactly? I think being affiliated with the best conference is great if aggy can come around and field a solid team more often than not, but thus far, history speaks differently regarding their ability to carry success year after year.

So how do you demand respect when you’ve never shown the ability to hang with the perineal winners of college football with some type of continuity, without appearing as though it is an anomaly that you are there in the first place. I know it happens to every team throughout history, their disappearance from the elite, but many of those programs have also laid the foundation in years past of being champions, by winning. So while the Texas’ Alabama’s and Michigan’s successful years can disappear for a few years, everyone expects their return and aren’t surprised when it happens, because they have been there off and on throughout the years and know how to get back there. Aggy has to prove it can attain that status, and after which not F up all the accomplishments for the following 15 years, therefore making everyone forget who in the hell they are. Winning 60 percent of your games in big 12 competition is not going to alert the news wire.

Aggy is a damn fine school and I would love them to stay in the conference, but if they think they are going to get more respect immediately in the SEC, I would argue differently. More money perhaps, but respect comes with running a clean program and winning, both of which are going to be very difficult in SEC land.

That being said, I wouldn’t mind seeing UT and the okies cut a small slice out of their tv revenue and give it to the aggies. We aren’t exactly hurting for cash and if it means keeping the conference together and this tradition alive, I’m all for it. In the mean time, maybe aggy can win more than 7 games a year and actually earn that money for themselves in the future. And if aggy still decides to bolt for the SEC in the future, make them pay out the ass for it.

Give them a chance, thrown them a bone or two, but the only way they are ever going to get respect is by winning. No amount of circumstances, supposed disparities or advantages claimed against other teams is going to change that. If you aren’t winning in the SEC, aggy will most assuredly eventually find some reason why the playing field isn’t level….it will happen no matter where they end up.

UT has earned every bit of money and leverage they wield. Sometimes it seems as if aggy wants what UT has earned, without producing anything close to what got UT to where it is today.
 
Lets give aggy a little more to appease and see where this goes and then basically wash our hands of it and them. If they still want to go to the SEC now or later, wish them good luck – they’re gonna need it. No matter what happens, stay or leave, please for the love of Jesus Shuttlesworth, quit bitching and moaning about what you think you deserve because quite frankly, you haven’t earned the right to do so on the level that you have lately.

Sorry to be all over the place here, but holy shit, if you’d win some football games people would actually listen to you and quit wondering how in the hell you have the nerve to make so many demands and think you are anything more than a mid-conference football team.

British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain felt appeasement was a good option as well. They made their demands last year, and were compensated handsomely.

Big Ern,

That’s what I remember, but doesnt UT and okie still get a very disproportionate amount of the tv revenue? I’m just saying to extend a very short hand to aggy (whatever way that’s possible at this point) while having the other hand on the detonator…..

doesnt UT and okie still get a very disproportionate amount of the tv revenue?
Does they? I thought it was a formula – half (or more?) of the TV $$$ are divided equally, and the rest by # of tv appearances. Sure, Texas and 0u are on tv a lot more than the rest, so they would naturally get more of the $$$.

If you think it’s “disproportionate”, you may need to do a little etymological sleuthing.

Tlong,

They does. Regardless, it’s still disproportionate compared to aggy, by whatever means (UT’s increased tv appearances), but thats not my point. My point is – What is aggy looking for from the big 12 to stay put and how can we (UT and the big 12) accommodate without bending over backwards? Has the high brass at tamu given any indication of this?

Great write up. Explains the differences and perspective from both sides. All I can say, is that there comes a point in time where lil bro decides he wants to make his own way. And big bro needs to say ok, good bye and good luck! Why does there has to be animosity on both sides about the decision? Seems childish on BOTH sides!

Old timers hate change I guess……I’m assuming (homesick) you are in favor of the move?

What is aggy looking for from the big 12 to stay put and how can we (UT and the big 12) accommodate without bending over backwards? Has the high brass at tamu given any indication of this?

To my knowledge there’s been no mention of specific changes that need to happen from A&M.

As far as what would need to change I feel like it may be too far gone at this point to save. I think the LHN and high school/conference game controversies were just the last straw, the issue seems to have primarily been the fact that Texas is calling the shots in the Big 12 and doesn’t do much to hide it. If I had to guess it would require a Beebe-less Big 12 to start.

As a whole I don’t think the issue has been handled very well by anyone involved.

To reinforce the financial reasons to leave, here’s a tweet from Kristi Dosh (@SportsBizMiss) who’s been crunching the numbers on the financial impact from a potential A&M move to the SEC (both for A&M and the state):

@SportsBizMiss If Texas A&M had received an SEC distribution last year it would have been just shy of TWICE what they received from Big 12.

To Monahorns question, “My main question is for the Aggies here. In an ideal world, what would it take for A&M to stay in the Big12? I wish we could start that conversation.”

I agree with Homesick Aggie, the issue is really about being little brother all around. A&M is an AAU member, has a well funded athletics program and great facilities, but is always regarded as that other big Texas school. In another conference we ARE the Texas school. The academic thing isn’t the best, but Florida and Vandy seem to be doing fine, and Georgia and Alabama seem to be on the rise academically, so that could improve. Also, in the SEC there are a bunch of heavyweights, not one University calling the shots. I think that is compelling. In the SEC, A&M represents the Houston and Dallas media markets, which is a great reason to be a player in conference decisions. I’m not delusional to the point of thinking A&M will join the SEC and immediately be a contender, but I do see a path to victory.

Back to the original question, I think the only way we stay in the Big 12 is if the costs of leaving put us well in the red, and the legislature stops it. Or the SEC can’t find a suitable 14th team.

Good point of the A&M lack of national brand. UT is not just a regional brand. Let A&M hitch their wagon to the SEC for their identity. Big 12 just needs to add UH, Rice, and SMU and get back to an even dozen.

Buford,

Yes I am in favor of the move to the SEC even though I am a “old ARMY Ag” (Class of 76) and a traditionalist. Time for us to move on and show ourselves (and every one else) if we can make it on our own. I would hope that Texas will still play us in all sports, only they can make that decision. If they don’t want to, then we will move on. It won’t hurt us not to play Texas and will probably make our seasons a little easier then if we have to play them.

Atrocity Exhibition would be a better reference… “This is the way, step inside…”

I cannot begin to express how happy this move makes me. It encapsulates everything I want — no more Aggies ever, plus watching them flail hopelessly in failure and not have us to blame for it.

Adios, mofos.

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