Big Cigar With Some Realignment News

That is just all kinds of awesome if true.

Boren is a tool, and it would not shock me a bit to see JC s-canned in favor of someone who would welcome the SEC “rules”.

Here’s hoping that doesn’t happen. I’d be happy to see the Ags go in favor of the Domers and the Fightin’ Mormons, especially with the long-term possibilities that would entail.

Please let this happen.

DYNAMITE!

JS, so it is the opinion of the big cigar that we’d let the aggie game drop? I can’t imagine that would last very long.

Great stuff.

On the OU stuff, I gotta wonder how much power Stoops really wields in any conference realignment discussions (same goes with Mack Brown on the LHN/realignment stuff for UT). Still, if I’m Stoops, I’d think that pragmatically, I’d rather stay in the Big 12 as it gives me the best shot at conference championships and BCS title games. It’s interesting that OU has stayed mostly silent on this. There’s also the consideration as to how much they are tied to OK State in the eyes of the state legislature. You gotta think T. Boone and his coffers have some pull. Any new word on an OU network (or Oklahoma network)?

If the Big 12 is “new and improved” with BYU and Notre Dame, isn’t a Pac-16 with OU, Tech and Baylor dead in the water? Not sure Texas and Oklahoma can segregate themselves from what would be powers 1B and 2B in the conference (if UT and OU are 1A and 2A) at that point. I’m also not sure UT and OU would even want to jump to Pac-16 then, as a Big 12 with both ND and BYU would be just fine and dandy, what with the capitalistic networks and all.

I call BS on this entire post. Texas does not want A&M to leave and is certainly not working to increase the odds of it happening. There is no stressed relationship between Castiglione and Boren or Stoops. This is just ridiculous. I think your guy packed his cigar with some cheap Mexican hash and is now seeing halos and zig zags. Sheesh.

Notre Dame being willing to affiliate right now is like an earthquake.

He proved himself clueless with this remark:

“Stoops and JC’s relationship was already a bit stressed due to annual contract renegotiations, and the Longhorn Network may be the straw that forces Boren to give JC his walking papers.”

If the rest of the article is as accurate as this, then it’s just garbage.

That would be pretty awesome.
Just think, in the future there could be a UT v. ND showdown in Estadio Azteca.

It would be one of the single greatest amateur sporting events in the history of the world.

Definitely in favor of playing ND on Thanksgiving. Can you imagine the national TV draw instead of playing aggy……

There is absolutely no way that Notre Dame joins the Big 12. There is waaaaaay more to it than their NBC deal. Ain’t happening.

This is all happening faster than everyone (ESPN included) would like to see — but so be it.

I am not casting any doubt on the Cigar’s knowledge, there definitely seems like a lot of smoke to the UT-Notre Dame discussions. However, I have a friend who is a Domer alum and sits on a lot of alumni fundraising committees, and he is 100% convinced that alumni would openly revolt if Swarbrick tried to sell a move to the Big 12. Swarbrick has been trying to slowly convince alumni that ND will need to move into a conference in the near future, but their own Big Cigars are pushing back – and they will not be in favor of a move to an unstable Big 12. He told me that they are convinced they can slow play any decision and move to whatever conference they want, with most favoring the Big 10 at some point down the road.

Let’s see…

Pac-12 plus Texas, Notre Dame, BYU, Tech, Baylor, Oklahoma and Boone Pickens U. Nope. That ain’t 16. I think the Catholics will see through that one.

You OU serfs need to get in touch with your own Sooner Menthols, they’ll tell you the exact same thing. I’m not doing the inside information thing for you cats.

As for Aggie, yes, right on up the totem pole we’re sick of their shit. We won’t play them if they leave and I’ve heard that from more than one source.

Makes perfect sense. Here’s hoping we can swing it and let Aggy go play with their Alabaman stepbrothers if they like. Any word on whether any third schools are being considered, to bring it to 12?

If the Big 12 is "new and improved" with BYU and Notre Dame, isn’t a Pac-16 with OU, Tech and Baylor dead in the water?

CW always was that Baylor would be left out of a Pac-16.

It appears that Texas wouldn’t have to help the Aggies pack anyway, but I wonder if A&M would be interested in the B12 if it knew that BYU and ND were coming.

It is possible that this would forestall major reorganization, or divert it. The four-16 model would become at least five.

BigFunny -

It would be a three-step process that might stall after two. Step one, Aggies leave the Big 12. This is important because it cuts the cord between the two. Step two, get BYU and ND into the conference. This is important because it gets Baylor to agree to step one. Step three, Texas/BYU/ND/Oklahoma either remain as conference anchors or all move to Pac-16. Baylor, Tech, and OkSU wouldn’t move to the Pac-16.

I don’t think it’s likely, but that is what’s being laid out here.

BigErn/PB -

When Swarbrick walks into a meeting with the Notre Dame Network estimated revenue, things might change. Once again, I don’t consider this end game likely, but it’s not impossible.

I will say he did think there is a possibility that UT and ND are discussing some potential partnerships should the Big 12 implode, but he did not know anything specific. He is convinced that ND will be in the Big 10, but they will wait until the last possible minute before superconferences become a reality, and that they will try to act as though they are considering other alternatives for leverage in order to keep the NBC contract if possible.

ND has too many influential alumni in Chicago and NYC/east coast areas that could care less about any of the Big 12 teams. Just don’t see this happening.

Screw the Big 12/Pac 12, if aggy leaves then Texas, OU, Missouri and Notre Dame need to join the Big 10.

Texas
Oklahoma
Nebraska
Notre Dame
Michigan
Ohio State
Penn State

^ No conference could compete with that draw.

Us Longhorns are giant pussies if we don’t play the Aggies because they switch conferences. My mole tells me your article is a giant pile of bullshit.

You had me right up until the point about Oklahoma and Castiglione. One reason Stoops has never left is because of him and Boren. I find it hard to believe their relationship is stressed. And why would Notre Dame come to the Big 12 short term, only to leave for a Pac 16 conference later?

This has the ring of truth to it from my perspective. There has always been good relations between ND and UT that precede the BCS era.

The first time Notre Dame played in bowl game since 1925 was against Texas in the Cotton Bowl, that was a huge deal at that time. srr50 could probably add more color.

Thanks for the update.

I could horribly wrong, but I believe Aggie would pay a smaller exit penalty if they notify the Big 12 of their move 12 months in advance. Additionally, I believe if Aggie leaves this month, they could play in the SEC in 2012.

Baylor might have an ax to grind, but if the SEC and Aggie back down to Baylor it sends a very weak message to the rest of the country. Once again Bible Aggie, don’t mess this up for Texas.

I’ve wondered about OU’s steadfast loyalty to Texas and the Big 12. Stoops wants and likes a conference with the path of least resistance, but Boren and OU BOR might be a totally different story. It seems like most of the Sooners’ fan base want to stick with Texas.

JS I think you just crashed the bandwidth of South Bend, Indiana. This won’t go over well on Notre Dame message boards.

The Notre Dame and BYU news is f***ing fantastic. Notre Dame – Texas on Thanksgiving. Let that sink in. Notre Dame vs. Texas on Thanksgiving. National audience. ESPN will back up the truck, again, for the rights to that game. The NFL Network is going to be pissed.

Notre Dame is well Notre Dame. They need no introduction, but BYU could be an outstanding addition to the Big 12 in their own right. Millions of LDS followers, the BYU Network is already in 50 million homes, the Salt Lake City television market, a 64,000 seat stadium that regularly sells out, excellent facilities, a historic football program with a national title in the modern area (yes that’s a dig at Aggie) and an emerging basketball program.

Please let this happen.

LOL, ND not joining a conference isn’t solely about its TV deal. You seriously misunderstand the ND psyche and the pride they take in being an independent. Nevermind the SEVERAL longterm rivalries (Michigan, USC, Navy, Purdue, Michigan State, Army) they’d have to give up to play the likes of ISU and Kansas. The reason ND recruits so well is that it plays nationally – to give that up is to cut off its nationwide recruiting base.

And A&M doesn’t have to leave for BYU and ND to join. Texas could have its cake and eat it too. None of this makes sense.

Huckleberry — yes, but the dynamics of this are all wrong. ND ain’t joining up with the Big 12, no way no how. What is possible is something of an alliance of independents.

But their joining the Big 12 is more than unlikely. I speak as someone with a good bit of knowledge on both sides of this one.

I wonder why ESPN does not seem to be trying to slow the Aggies’ exit. In fact, ESPN keeps zapping the Ags with new plans and advocacy of HS football on LHN. What is their goal in the chaos. Has ESPN fueled the unrest to promote their goals?

Ribby, first of all nobody believes you’re a Longhorn. An actual Texas grad would have properly started that post with “We” instead of the objective pronoun as the subject of a sentence.

More importantly, can you explain why Texas should continue playing A&M if they leave the conference? Being pussies has nothing to do with it. Decent Texas teams beat the Aggies, so being scared is a complete non-starter.

“There is absolutely no way that Notre Dame joins the Big 12. There is waaaaaay more to it than their NBC deal. Ain’t happening.”

This x 1000.

Notre Dame is more interested in independence and tradition than any sort of revenue-maximizing model. There is a reason Notre Dame Stadium has no Jumbotron, no luxury suites, no chairbacks, etc.

I do have it on high authority that DeLoss and Swarbrick talk all the time – especially about realignment – but ND joining the Big 12 ain’t happening. Hell, they would make more TV money in the Big 10, could join anytime they want, and still haven’t done it.

There is no reason to play A&M they leave — at least none with a positive scenario for Texas.

Penn State vs. Pittsburgh was a very big deal for a very long time. They started playing each other in 1893. When they both went to conferences they stopped playing each other after 2000. They will pick up the series again in 2016.

Sounds about right to me.

There are some holes above:
*Bill Byrne does not have a voice in the matter
*PAC12 says texas is no longer an option because of the LHN
*When A&M DOES leave, it’s a race to 20 for the SEC, ACC, Big10 and PAC12. That leaves the Big12ish in ruins.
*Texas’ endgame is to become independent. Right now, they are being given the luxury of acting as an independent, subsidized by espn, all the while within the comfortable confines of a conference.

Time will tell…

Damn,

If we could get a Muslim school we could be the conference of the crusaders. Come watch the holy wars every saturday.

ND will never join this abortion of a conference and give up their traditional rivalries.

UT and ND to the Big 10 is exponentially more likely than ND to the Big 12.

This is the dumbest post ever made on this site, and that’s saying something.

We better not underestimate the Ags’ ability to screw a deal up.

Jo, nothing you said is factual except.

Good news to hear – I’d MUCH rather let aggy take their toys and go their own way.

I’d even boycott the game if we keep the yearly game after the divorce. This needs to end for the foreseeable future.

Please, Deloss, let’s ditch the game with whiny aggy.

Turkey Day Special of Aggy v. Miss St. sorta has a true ring to it.

Not sure why my post got cut off but w/e

hornfan27 – pretty sure Muslim schools don’t play games featuring a pigskin.

Ah, Ag in Tx, the proprietor of Thunderdome pulls up and gets ironical. Tell me, what was your pucker level when Johnathan Gray’s lawyer sent you that certified letter?

aggy pretending like we give a shit if they leave is the best part of the whole realignment saga. no one cares if you wanna string yourselves up like Brooks from shawshank and kick the chair. we’re just hoping you don’t fuck up your self-eulogy and carve every word in right. less embarrassing drool cup brother ftw imo

It all really comes down to Aggy making the move. I, for one, am happy with all of the contingency plans being made. Not all of them will pan out, of course. The most realistic one seems to be BYU – no ego to be had with them as opposed to ND. Increases in Big 12 TV sets, fan base, and revenue overnight. Bring on the Stormin’ Mormons. I would love to see a rivalry form between BYU and Baylor (Mormon vs Southern Baptist). The prospect is titillating.

This is the dumbest post ever made on this site, and that’s saying something.

Ha ha ha ha. wow. dung doesn’t gather on a rolling aggie…

Notre Dame to the Big 12 would eliminate any kind of concerns about conference instability, no? With ND there, the conference would cease to be a monopolar conference, and the brand would be strong enough to make it a place for the middle class (Iowa State, Mizzou, etc.) to live.

I’d laugh if Baylor actually ended up being aggy’s cockblock in the end. Somehow they’d PR it into a way to blame Texas, but if Baylor wants to play the attack-dog role, I’m ordering a new hot air popper.

Why does A&M need to leave for BYU and ND to come on board? Adding those 2 to the current mix would make for a fairly strong conference. ND >> Nebraskas, and BYU ~= CU, so I’d think the conference would actually be ahead.

Those of you who doubt JS and his sources need to remember this guy informed us of the coaching moves all the way down to our new offensive line coach back in October.

it may seem strange or out of left field but if you had told me 2 years ago A&M was a lock to the SEC I would have been skeptical as well.

Notre Dame’s independence was never about tradition. Do not be so naive. it has always been about their brand and maximizing revenue. In the era of the Super Conference they will have to join with someone or lose a strategic advantage. The question of course for ND is do they see that in the Big 12 whith their current NBC affiliation on in the Big 10?

Last yeat, on some thread, I commented that the BYU and ND home and home series looked suspiciously like a Big 12 north south schedule. I theorized that they were replacing NU and CU.

My new theory has AF replacing aggie. I fully admit to being a conspiracy theorist. I have no sources.

I still don’t understand the Notre Dame logic. You don’t think NBC would have an issues with not being able to show EVERY ND home game and many of their away games. The B10 Network has an issue with this but Fox/ABC/ESPN don’t have an issue with this?

I’m having trouble following the logic there.

ND will never join this abortion of a conference and give up their traditional rivalries.

I am skeptical of this falling into place as well, and this is another major football issue.

I was trying to think of a way to make it work — basically, the B12 would have to allow some games to be designated as conference games.

And for the record I am all for A&M leaving now. I do not know if it is ultimately good for them but I know it is one than made based on emoition and insecurity which means the odds of it being the right decision are very low.

pucker level haha

seattlehusker-

We could work around that impossible quagmire you present by say…argeeing to allow NBC to broadcast every home game for Notre Dame.

Holy shit that was hard to solve.

hornfan27 – pretty sure Muslim schools don’t play games featuring a pigskin.

I laughed.

Why not keep the ags and add ND and BYU?

“Why not keep the ags and add ND and BYU?”

Texas A&M has made their decision. It is over. They want to leave. We should help them pack their bags.

Replace them with Air Force then add Notre Dame and BYU.

I don’t get how Castiglione would look weak to the powers that be at OU as it relates to the Longhorn Network. Their only beef seemed to be with UT boadcasting high school games, well that’s not going to happen now so what is OU’s issue with the network? I thought UT was going to help OU with theirs at some point anyway.

Poor logic.
1. Baylor, Tech, and OU convinced to stay in Big 12 with addition of BYU and ND (still only getting to 11 teams, btw).
2. BYU, ND, and OU convinced that long term merger with Pac-12 is imminent and profitable.

If Baylor and Tech know about #2, no way they go along with #1. They know that the four teams going to the Pac-16 from the Big 12 would be Texas, OU, BYU, and ND. Only way this makes sense is if #2 actually implies the Big 12 going on the offensive and raiding some Pac-12 teams — basically making the ultimate superconference Big 12-centric rather than Pac12-centric. This is actually my preferred option and goes down as follows:
1. Ags leave.
2. ND and BYU join up.
3. Beebe brings the all out expansion blitz and pulls Arkansas from SEC, Arizona and ASU from the Pac-12. This leaves two wildcard spots. This is my dream, so Beebe gets revenge on the Big10 for kicking this off prematurely last year and pulls two of Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, and Penn State. The state of Michigan is hurting for money in a big way and this is bound to affect the universities eventually. Dangle enough dough and they may have to put aside some of that hallowed Big10 tradition. These Midwest schools offer ND regional partners and Michigan and Northwestern raise the academic bar considerably. Failing that we pull Vandy from the SEC. Why? Because they raise the academic profile and because fuck the SEC, that’s why.

I still don’t understand the Notre Dame logic. You don’t think NBC would have an issues with not being able to show EVERY ND home game and many of their away games. The B10 Network has an issue with this but Fox/ABC/ESPN don’t have an issue with this?

NBC doesn’t show any ND away games.

All these issues are negotiable. The B12 has a contract for a certain group of teams. If B12 TV partners don’t have ND home games now, is it that big a deal not to have them going forward? The BTN issue appears to be assimilation. That’s different from just going ahead with the arrangements that already have been made.

If the B12 breaks up over this down the road, it still would have been better off with it. Just figure on BYU replacing A&M — it already has a strong relationship with ESPN, and start talking about the future.

BTW, the ND game on Thanksgiving would be sweet.

Newy25:

“We” or the networks?

Keep in mind that those same networks that will stand in the way of ND to B10 are the same networks that will agree to ND to B12 is the claim.

Fox is a 49% owner of the B1G Network. B1G also has a deal with ABC/ESPN.

“Why not keep the ags and add ND and BYU?”

Answer: to remove the stink on our schedule that is aggy.

Interesting theory, just don’t see it happening. I hope BYU does take our place. I don’t see Notre Dame leaving, at least not right away. It is interesting that the one school putting up a hissy fit is Baylor, but then again, they were never exactly a Division I team either, and drunk hicks spend a lot more money in Waco than a bunch of mormons would. I think the Big 12-3 is DOA, and the sooner you guys realize it, the better you can maximize your next move. I think Dodds is wise enough to see this, but he can’t say anything yet. Would be interesting to see what happens with the Thanksgiving game-I don’t think most of you guys realize how most Aggies view that game as expendable if it means the SEC. Loftin had to say he wants to keep the game, and if both sides agree then so be it, but the trust between the two schools is gone, and beyond repair. I guess the level of security needed at the game in College Station will be double what it would normally be.

I don’t doubt JS’s sources, I believe the Big 12 would love to plug in BYU and ND, and I believe Deloss and Swarbrick have a close relationship and are very likely discussing alternatives for when the inevitable implosion happens. I just doubt ND’s willingness and/or ability to do this.

Their contract with NBC ends in 2015. They will wait until that contract is near expiration to make any decision as long as they feel like they can. And PB is right, there are any number of complications to this beyond the NBC contract. Swarbrick would be looking for a job within months if he tried to go to bat for a move to the Big 12.

Is it possible for the f-aggies to still have tears after all their cryin’?

It would be great to play BYU at home on Halloween, just to see the reaction from all of the Mormons on 6’th street at night.

Seattlehusker,

The difference is that the Big XII is more likely to be willing to negotiate. The Big XII can tell Notre Dame that they can sell their home games to NBC (as they currently do). The Big XII can tell Notre Dame that they can sell their third teir rights to anyone they want (or start their own network). Will the Big Ten be willing to have one member who has a separate TV contract and does not participate in the Big Ten Network?

The Big Ten makes a big deal about conference unity and togetherness. Do they want Notre Dame enough to be willing to give some of that up to get them? Because the Big XII does. The Big XII would be much more willing to negotiate, if the alternative is collapse.

Why not keep the ags?

the ags are nebraska, part ii.

very interesting. hope it all comes to pass.

i was at the dinner for the teams prior to the first texas/nd cotton bowl. have a story to tell about that and will when this thread winds down a bit.

seattlehusker -

We meaning the schools, conference and networks involved. Everything can be negotiated.

Not every school makes decisions based on emotion like your ’Huskers. While Tom Osbourne pisses his pants and jumps on the next offer we think with much more strategery.

Wahoo: The rumor was (is?) that the Big Ten would accommodate the LHN.

JS,

What would happen to ND’s games against Michigan, SC and the service academies?

“Notre Dame is more interested in independence and tradition than any sort of revenue-maximizing model. There is a reason Notre Dame Stadium has no Jumbotron, no luxury suites, no chairbacks, etc.”

Exactly. What Texas fans don’t seem to understand is not everyone cares about money the way they do. I almost fell off my chair when I saw Longhorn fans talking about Michigan leaving the Big 10 to join a superconference with them – it was all about the $$$. Look, Michigan doesn’t even allow in-stadium advertising. They have enough money and don’t care to get more than they need at the expense of giving up who they are. That goes for Notre Dame too.

I have no reason to doubt Big Cigar, but take this for what it’s worth. Namely, with mucho salt:

I currently go to grad school at Notre Dame (Texas ’06) and have been taking the tenor of as many Notre Dame die-hards as I can since getting back to campus about a possible Texas-ND Holy Alliance in the Big 10, Big 12, Big East or otherwise. Now, most of these are just fans. One or two actually know people. I have a couple observations.

First, everyone saying that ND fans/alums would riot if ND made the jump to the Big 12 is spot-on. The Tao of DeLoss is Make Money, Win Football Games. If Texas made the jump to a conference that would force us to dump a lot of our traditional opponents, we would be placated by the sheer, sweet bidness of it all. In contrast, no amount of Brinks Trucks would placate Notre Dame fans or alums forced to watch the Irish play Baylor, Kansas, ISU, Okie Lite. For whatever reason, they’re really attached to Purdue and . As someone on this thread said, if Notre Dame prioritized bidness like Texas does, there would be a Jumbotron, luxury boxes, etc., in their stadium. If such stubbornness and blind adherence to tradition in the face of so much money to be made sounds familiar to you, it’s because Texas A&M and Notre Dame are very similar as a football culture. Scoff if you want, but you definitely feel it up here. The only difference is Notre Dame can actually back it up with past accomplishment, marketability, and a recruiting reach. Think Golden Aggie.

Second, Notre Dame’s independence is as unique of a tradition to the Irish as the opponents they play. I have literally heard stuff like, “If Notre Dame ever gives up its dependence, I will never blah blah blah.” To Notre Dame, independence is an integral part of their identity. Again, no cash is going to make them feel differently about this. A guy I know with some connections talked to Swarbrick this summer and was told by him that, “Our biggest priority is to keep Notre Dame an independent.” Priorities change, but I really don’t see them changing for the Big 12.

Having said all that, everyone I talk to is genuinely excited about playing Texas in 15-16, 19-20. If there was a possibility of making Texas a regular or semi-regular opponent, I have no doubt the Irish would be down. Someone on this thread pointed out that an alliance of independents and quasi-independents is more likely. I think that’s probably closer to the truth.

Thanks for the post, Jesus, and keep the robusto lit.

“Wahoo: The rumor was (is?) that the Big Ten would accommodate the LHN.”

Interesting if true. Although that’s a lot different than allowing a school (Notre Dame) to sell it’s 1st and 2nd tier rights separately from the rest of the conference.

ESPN keeps zapping the Ags with new plans and advocacy of HS football on LHN.

i was puzzled at the first ‘slip up’. i just couldn’t accept that the espn guy could goof that plainly. now, i’m beginning to see that espn is trying to prod the ags into making the move. that would be best for everybody. a&m gets to play in a real conference where they’ll be treated like the royalty they are [trust me, ags, you’re gonna LOVE it!!!], and we move on to something much more sensible.

miles and miles of smiles all around.

“And for the record I am all for A&M leaving now. I do not know if it is ultimately good for them but I know it is one than made based on emoition and insecurity which means the odds of it being the right decision are very low.”

Underrated comment.

I grant you that this is a little hard to believe, but it’s from the best source I’ve got. The gentleman is rock solid.

“Replace them with Air Force then add Notre Dame and BYU.”

So we are:

- Trading fake army for real military? (AFA)

-Trading a cult for a religious following? (BYU)

- Replacing nutsqueeze tradition with TD Jesus? (ND)

THIS = WIN

“The Big Ten makes a big deal about conference unity and togetherness. Do they want Notre Dame enough to be willing to give some of that up to get them?”

Yes.

Look, the ND cigars LOVE independence. It works out well with ND’s traditional rivals and leaves enough flexibility to play interesting games such as Miami, Texas, OU, etc.

I’d be interested to hear anyone make a case on why joining the Big 12 is a good idea for Notre Dame. Hurts academic credibility and hurts scheduling. Last year the Irish played two games in New York and a game in Los Angeles. This year they’ll hit the Bay Area, Washington DC, and Ann Arbor. Why would those big market games for a national brand ever get traded for Stillwater, Lawrence, Manhattan, Ames, Waco, Lubbock, and Columbia?

Swarbrick’s head would be on a pike.

How does A&M leaving make this more probable if we are talking full membership for both BYU and ND?

I don’t think ND would join the Big12, but they would join a conference of their own creating that could be based on Big 12 teams.

This might be a little off topic but I was reading one of the links inside Scipio’s Sooner State of the Union and I found this little gem in comments about Thayer Evans and the New York Times:

“dear texas,
big boy programs have writers on staff at the nyt to fluff their teams and attack their rivals
too bad you’re not a big boy program
love,
Sooners
by okiedomer on Jan 19, 2009 2:35 PM EST reply actions
"

Just found it extremely funny and retro-ironic in light of our partnership with ESPN in the Longhorn fucking Network. Wonder how Okiedomer feels about the LHN…

regarding nd’s independence and playing the service academies and such, i envision a special situation for them where they have more control over their schedule than a conference member usually has. really, a confederation of quasi-independents is about what i see happening. that would fit us and the domers very nicely.

That scenario with ND to Big XII would be awesome for the Big XII but I dont see it. As for revenue there was info floating on the interwebs that Northwestern makes more from their TV deal than ND does. The Big 10 network is a money machine for all concerned.

I have felt all along that Texas and ND to the Big 10 is a monster move and still think its viable. At the University president level its optimal. So far all the Texas-ND love is coming from Austin.

Independence will not be an option for Texas. Nobody worth shit is going to play us.

We have plenty of cards but could still overplay our hand on this. You could make an argument that with the LHN we have already.

After letting them wander in the wilderness I would want to play ATM again. They are a pain in the ass but we are brothers like it or not.

First, I think we should all quit shooting at the messenger. It’s ridiculous some of things “Texas” fans are writing. Some of us are just disagreeing. That’s fine.

Regardless, this is very interesting news. My first thought when reading this was that I hope Baylor black-mails A&M into staying. I hope it is public and scandalous embarrassing and PERMANENT for A&M.

Then I hope we add 2 schools like a BYU and/or Notre Dame. I unlike most on this site don’t think BYU is an upgrade from A&M. I think they are okay and better than many options but it is not a 1-for-1 replacement with the Aggies. Then the Big12 would essentially be replacing CU and NU with ND and BYU. That doesn’t sound bad at all. The question of plausibility is legit though. Notre Dame in the Big12 could work geographically but the B1g 10 seems like a better fit in every way but TV and ND to the Pac-XX seems even less plausible.

I would think that even if BYU and ND joined the Big12, once it dissolved ND would go to the B1g 10 and Texas, OU, and 2 of BYU/OSU/Tech would go to the Pac-16.

JS, for me I am anxious to hear whatever Cohiba Grande has to say. Bring it on.

yeh: What is happening with ESPN/LHN is that ESPN is acting like a programmer. It wants 1) live content that people will watch, and 2) not-live content that people will watch.

When they were talking, they were talking about a situation for which the NCAA didn’t have rules. So grab an extra football game — no revenue loss to conference teams. Show HS games — it’s not really a recruiting tool, but it would be interesting to people who would watch the LHN.

ESPN is involved with the B12 and SEC, but I really doubt that they’re using the LHN as a lever against the Ags. The Ags are handling that part quite well on their own.

The wadded up panties are strong with this one.

I see this post as unprecedented access that equates to trade talks from ONE SIDE. Jesus isn’t definitively stating this is what’s going to happen, he’s saying what we want to happen and how we’d like the picture to be painted after Aggie shits all over the canvas and easel.

Slater Martn “Turkey Day Special of Aggy v. Miss St. sorta has a true ring to it.”

Wow. Sea of Maroon Morons, cow bells, crotch grab, halftime longhorn sacrifice & nobody in the stands b/c they’re all in the restrooms trying to figure out how toilets work indoors. The networks will sell it as tradition & charm. I hope Craig James covers this one.

BYU might join the B12-3, but as pointed out numerous times above ND isn’t. Baylor can piss and moan all they want, they’re not going to stop A&M to the SEC. The only thing they are currently doing is delaying the announcement as we pay more lawyers to review their potential lawsuits. BU is screwed and they know it. I guess they feel they’re best defense is a good offense. Texas isn’t giving up the LHN and that is a non starter for the Pac12, Big10 and SEC. I guess that means some revamped B12-3 or Indy for Texas. I agree with A-i-t about the all the fuzzy logic in the original post.

“regarding nd’s independence and playing the service academies and such, i envision a special situation for them where they have more control over their schedule than a conference member usually has. really, a confederation of quasi-independents is about what i see happening. that would fit us and the domers very nicely.”

This is getting crazier by the post. The hope seems to be that Notre Dame will call themselves a B12 team yet operate independently and move their tradition entrenched annual rivalry with USC off Thanksgiving weekend to replace it with Texas. The benefit for Notre Dame is what again?

Some UT fans on here seem to recognize how irrational the ND to B12 rumors sound. I guess UT holds all the cards though so it isn’t an issue.

Kilgore, money cures a lot of non-starters…

Kilgore,

Scott and Delaney saying the LHN is a non-starter is no different than Slive saying the SEC is staying put at 12 and that the SEC would never start the realignment shuffle. File it under things that have to be said at any given moment.

Notre Dame to Big 12 makes no sense to me at all.
 
Notre Dame to lose independent affiliation of national programs does.
 
Texas to Pac 14 or 16 really makes sense.

ND? No way they are considering the unstable Big 12. Nationally there is absolutly no talk of it whatsoever, only about them joining the Big 10 maybe. They are not coming to the resucue. OU is not going to the SEC because they will want someone from the Atlantic coast to balance out the inclusion of aggy. OU is not part of the SEC in anyway shape or form.

lot of crazy being sold in this post.

My uneducated guess is that BYU will join as a full member, Notre Dame will only be a sort of half-member that regularly plays 2-5 games per year against Big 12 foes but does not play a complete schedule. Perhaps they also move their non-football sports to full B12 membership instead of the Big East.

Kilgore- they don’t have a traditional thanksgiving rivarly with USC. They have a traditionally rivalry with USC, that is sometimes played on thanksgiving- it isn’t ingrained.

Remember the Bush Push game happened in October? Many years they play stanford around turkey day. I don’t think not playing USC on thanksgiving ever again would be a huge problem for them- as long as the game is on the schedule. Someone said that they play in October in Indiana and November in Cali- maybe that’s a permanent type thing, maybe it’s a sort of kind of thing- but the date on the schedule is not fixed for that affair.

I also doubt that ND will want to join the Big XII as a full member. The impression I have is that they will try to maintain their football independence for as long as is pratically possible. What strikes me as more possible is that ND might switch its other sports affiliation to the Big XII and play 3-4 Big XII football opponents a year. They have a similar arrangement currently with the Big East, and I think switching to Big XII would be an upgrade for ND in terms of better weather, access to Texas HS recruits and a schedule upgrade from the Big East (excepting basketball).

My connections are telling me we sever all connections with aggies if/when they leave.

Good wisdom from srr50 below:

“There is no reason to play A&M they leave — at least none with a positive scenario for Texas.

Penn State vs. Pittsburgh was a very big deal for a very long time. They started playing each other in 1893. When they both went to conferences they stopped playing each other after 2000. They will pick up the series again in 2016.

Sounds about right to me."

I don’t think A&M will want to either Vandelay. That would mean playing murderers row and then Texas. Not smart. Wait…

closetojumping weighs in at the Shag:

“I will shit a golden cigar and set Trips Left on fire if Notre Dame joins the Big 12. Ain’t happening.”

If that’s anything like a mudhole prediction, I like our chances.

Ridiculous. Up ‘till now, I’ve found the “Big Cigar’s” updates to be a bit suspect and far too full of sunshine-pumping. But this is just too much. The idea that Baylor — yes, Baylor — will have any major influence at all on whether A&M goes to the SEC is highly suspect.

But the idea that Notre Dame will join Texas in a reconfigured Big 12 is utterly ABSURD. Under no circumstances do the Irish want or need the “opportunity” to deal with us after all the crap that’s gone down with Nebraska, Colorado, and A&M. And the only way the Irish give up their treasured independence is if they’re threatened with being left out of an expanded Big 10 in a super-conference environment.

The Big Cigar is out of his flippin’ mind if he thinks the Irish are even remotely interested in our crumbling conference. It’s going to be Texas to the Pac-16, and we’ll all be better off for it.

Someone asked earlier about the Sooner Network — FWIW, they have already filed trademark applications with the US patent and trademark office.

These are “intent to use” applications, which means they are not yet using the marks, however, they assert by declaration, that they have a bona-fide intent to use the marks.

Application numbers 85211674 and 85211667.

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess&state=4004:70ht14.1.1

The proposed name appears to be the “Oklahoma Sports Network” (which they will call “ONE”). Applications were filed January 6, 2011 by attorney David M. Sullivan.

http://attorneys.crowedunlevy.com/AttorneysDetail.aspx?id=84

I apologize for all of the Ags on here. I posted this on TexAgs.

Trips Left is flame retardant.

Conferences are the past, much like okiedomer’s newspapers.

128 teams in the College Football Championship League.

Eight Regions, with 16 teams each. Be in a conference, too… or don’t.

Each Region has a four-game tournament to determine a Regional Champion.

What the teams do for their “other” games is up to them – play in a conference, play whoever you want, but those games have nothing to do with the Regional Championships.

The eight Regional Champs enter a three-game tournament to determine the National Champion. On the field. Every team is in it from the get-go. No pollsters wanted, no pollsters needed.

One of the best parts is, in your non-tournament games – regardless of whether they’re with teams in your Region or not – have no bearing on the tournament outcome, so you can relax, have fun, try out those freshmen and those crazy plays because there’s nothing to lose (except your bragging rights).

Castglione and Stoops( and Boren for that matter) do not have a strained relationship in the slightest and never have. They are fully alighned and have no desire whatsoever to separate from UT. Not a Sooner but family with long standing, First hand knowledge.

Maybe your cigar needed some fill.

How ‘bout we let Aggy hang themselves in the SEC, then we pull in ND, BYU, TCU Boise State, Arkansas and a couple more and be the first to form a ’Super Conference’?! It seems like the Big 12 is in ‘survival’ mode when we could be in ‘attack’ mode!

Close To Jumping said the same exact thing months ago when it was predicted that Ash would have a package of plays.

With the price of gold what it is, I fault no man for wanting to shit it, fwiw.

Pac-16 sounded like the best option last year and STILL sounds like the best option as a fan. I don’t think any fan really cares for LHN as much as DeLoss thinks we do. In the end, I want the best football games. Pure and simple.

East – TEXAS, TT, OU, OSU, ASU, UA, CU, Utah,
West – UW, WSU, UO, OSU, Cal, UCLA, Stanford, USC

^How is the above not the best option?

Who cares about the aggies? Let the SEC take Baylor and Ag.

Baylor isn’t going to sue anyone. Any hope of prevailing against the SEC in a lawsuit is just far-fetched. Not to mention they’ll likely have a damages problem.

As for suing A&M, I’ve got two words: sovereign immunity. I’m sure A&M will negotiate a buyout in good faith that is in line with those from last year, but I seriously doubt they will let Ken Starr attempt to bring a lawsuit against the school.

Finally, I’m highly skeptical that a public official up for re-election would dare to cut A&M’s academic funding based on a non-academic decision — especially when it’s at the request of a private school.

No – just like the Higher Education Board Hearing, it’s all a bluff designed to influence A&M’s decision to leave and/or the SEC’s decision to accept the Aggies. I mean, isn’t it a just a bit ironic that the hearing was taken down before the BOR even reached a vote?

Why would ND want to join a 14 or 16 team B1G conference and split the TV dollars 16 ways and lose their tier3 rights?

An 8-10 team conference where they influence the conference make-up is a much better deal.

I expect the LHN will “break” the news of A&M officially leaving the Big 12 and applying to the SEC.

Although some have made good arguments as to why ND would even consider joining the Big 12-2, I remain skeptical.

IF the plan is to add ND, BYU, & another school (if A&M leaves), I think there’s NO WAY IN HELL ND would join. They would be stuck in a division w/ ISU, KSU, etc. There’s no way their fans would stomach that.

If the divisions were reorganized (i.e., dropping the North & South alignment), I think their fans wouldn’t stomach that scenario either, since they would likely be in a division w/ Baylor, Tech, or Okie St.

We won’t play them if they leave and I’ve heard that from more than one source.

For how long?

And does this apply for FB only?

i doubt very seriously that texas is ever part of either b1g or pac.

With a hint of Scip, this smells of a loose alliance of independent schools… BYU UT ND AF Army Navy and maybe even Baylor but that’s less likely. Like, unpossible. And Magnus is right when he re-posits that this is a nirvanaesque dream scenario for Bellmont for football

I still am curious how non-revenue sports go. At some point it becomes akin to pissing into the wind…

I’m also skeptical about how the Notre Dame fanbase would feel about joining the Big 12. From a business sense, I can see how it’d work and might be acceptable. One possibility is that the Big 12 goes back to 12 teams, and limits conference games to 7 – allowing Notre Dame flexibility w/ 5 OOC games.

Also, I could see ESPN breaking the bank to mold the Big 12 into their little plaything and possibly bribing/raiding other conferences to do it. ESPN overpays for LHN, Bowl TV rights and partial SEC rights. No one else makes it rain in college football like ESPN.

Man if I could shit a mere 50 ounces of gold, I could pay back all my school loans and buy a Ski-doo. Then maybe I could afford season tickets. MAKE IT HAPPEN DELOSS.

It is hard to doubt JS and his sources if you are a long time follower of this site. That said, it will be hard to convince me that ND is about to jump whole heartedly into the Big 12. I do believe that there is a significant amount of truth to any rumor though.

My thoughts are the same as some others have said. ND could look to move all other sports to the Big 12 and follow the Horns when they make a final move. If that is the Pac 16, that seems like quite a trip for the rowing team however. They could also be looking to make a game with Texas a new yearly event. They could also look to add other teams like OU to the rotation.

I’m sure that they are willing to help us out here, and the indications from Deloss himself is that there is a significant amount of talk between the schools. I’m very interested in what is going to happen without a doubt.

….and goodbye to A&M!

For how long?

till you see me walk on water,
till the seas don’t meet the shore,
till the fires of hell freeze over,
we won’t play the ags no more.

credit a randy travis song, by the by.

thank you again Jesus!!
i am not for realignment but i am very intrigued by it and foresee that there is no choice in the future.

Definitely do not play Aggies if they leave. They are gone, moved out, GOODBYE!!! We are not scared to play them, just dont give a shit about them. they care about playing us more. thats not cocky, thats a fact.

if/when Aggies leave, and Big 12 adds Byu and hopefully ND, is there a 3rd team option out there so we can get back to 12 and have a CCG? I am not a fan of adding AF or UH.

even if the big 12 adds Byu, it will remain viable for a couple of years at 10 teams. We can jsut play ND out of conf till then on turkey day.

i too am curious. A&M might be hesitant to leave if they knew Byu/ND were coming but i still think they want away from Texas more than anything else, even bottom feeding in the $ec.

If power confs do happen, i love the idea of 1)an All American conf, with Texas, Ou, ND, Byu, etc. as long as the conf doesnt include the UHs of the world. 2)ACC/Pac16, great academics and great overall for UT/OU, etc to go to. I am not a fan of going to Big 10, its easier/nicer to fly into Atl,Miami,DC(ACC) and LA, SF, Phx(PAC) then it is to go to Happy Valley, Detroit, Iowa(Big10).

Baylor needs to keep the Big 12 alive at all costs bc they have no place else to go.

hornfan27 – pretty sure Muslim schools don’t play games featuring a pigskin.
one of the funniest post ever!

I likey except for the potential to go to the PAC. I hate the PAC, I have no desire to go that high schoolish conference. If we do a deal with BYU & Notre Dame, it would be great. But leave it at that or go Independent.

Come and Get it!

Jesus,

You haven’t taken this abortion of a blog posting down yet?

Don’t you realize you are the laughing stock of the intrawebs right now? ChiComms that monitor the Internet for intelligence data are elbowing each other and laughing, saying “wook at wha dis dumb hezeus suttlecock es blowing ouwit hiz azz…..” Aliens on Alpha Centauri who were monitoring our EM leakage for signs of intelligent life are dejectedly realigning their reception dishes based on this blog post.

If you source really told you this, he’s either smoking crack or trying to purposefully make you look full retard. He is succeeding wildly at the latter.

Bob in Houston said: August 23rd, 2011 at 9:42 am
Notre Dame being willing to affiliate right now is like an earthquake.

Bob in Houston shall forever be called Notredamus to me.

And incidentally, most of the irregulars have missed the point, and to hilarious effect I might add.

The point is not, “This is what’s happening”. It’s more like, “This is what the UT brass is telling its boosters”. Read between the lines a little folks.

If you want something firmer than scuttlebutt, here’s some reasonable things to glean about the actual state of affairs from the Cig’s comment:

• UT is saying that keeping A&M in the conference is not the first-best option. It considers the top schools on its wish list to be better.

• UT is actively trying to see whether the first-best option is possible.

• If the first-best option is doable, UT will hold the door open for A&M to leave.

• If not, well, that’s an awfully nice deal with the SEC you got there Aggy. It’d be a shame if something Biblical happened to it.

All in all, it seems like the brass is taking great pains to spread the word amongst its own well-connected flock that UT isn’t A&M’s main obstacle to departure. A good-faith effort to build alternatives that would allow Aggy to leave on good terms + letting the Baylor folk who have more at stake handle the dirty work if those alternatives are unworkable = not UT’s fault if the Aggy-SEC deal turns out to be DOA due to financial penalties and legal considerations.

We have a B12 offense and a SEC defense. No matter what path Mike F’n Sherman leads us through we Aggies know we will end up in Championship-land.

I think those that are saying ND never joins the B12 may know what they are talking about. But their are naive if they think ND keeps their indy status long term. Super conferences are coming and ND will either join or lose their BCS auto qualifier status. They aren’t what they once were and to be honest college football doesn’t NEED Notre Dame.

If anyone knows full retard, it’s Ag_in_TX.

Great post Roosta.

Re: “* If not, well, that’s an awfully nice deal with the SEC you got there Aggy. It’d be a shame if something Biblical happened to it.”

All in all, it seems like the brass is taking great pains to spread the word amongst its own well-connected flock that UT isn’t A&M’s main obstacle to departure."

Those are take home points right there.

A&M/SEC can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube, and Baylor has been taking notes and positioning to guard its flank for realignment survival for more than a year.

BTW, how do the Thanksgiving TV games get allocated? Can A&M get summarily dumped with Texas holding the date and plugging in a traditional heavyweight like ND? I know for the NFL, it was a stoke of genius by the Cowboys (Gil Brandt?) to lock in the annual holiday game way back when.

Excellent if true..thanks for the report J.S.

So what is in it for N.D.?

ND vs Texas on TDay would be one of the best annual games to watch, not only in college football, but all of sports.

Keep us posted!

Aggy Rick says…
“We have a B12 offense and a SEC defense”…

Well Aggy, it took you long enough to get the first part of that line and as for the second part, not quite sure about your defense yet. One decent year and you get all full of yourself… come back & visit when you put 4 to 6 years great years together then we’ll chat! That “Championship” land shit is fucking comical….

ND affiliating it’s non-football programs in the Big 12 and then creating a limited Big 12 gridiron slate in addition to their traditional games isn’t complete crazy talk. Though I’d like to know why they’d leave their Big East affiliation there.
 
ND as full fledged member playing home and homes with Kansas St. makes zero sense.
 
However, anyone who doubts that DeLoss Dodds and ND AD Jack Swarbrick talk daily don’t understand the dynamics there. Our end games are intertwined, but not as neatly as a pure conference affiliation. Those two cats are really close though.
 
I still think A&M leaving has us most likely in the Pac 14 or Pac 16.
 
A Pac 16 that adds Texas, OU, BYU, Tech or Oklahoma St would be an incredible conference in basketball and football and the confluence of Texas and California high school talent across all of the sub-elite schools will create SEC style depth and quality. Throw in the raw numbers of potential TV eyeballs, look at demo trends, it’s not hard to see what this could be.
 
Not to mention the best road trip settings in the history of Man.

“Aggie Rick said:

August 23rd, 2011 at 12:43 pm

We have a B12 offense and a SEC defense. No matter what path Mike F’n Sherman leads us through we Aggies know we will end up in Championship-land."

And the Big Cigar is delusional?

I had a very good source that told me he was saying A&M. Obviously, for now, he was wrong.

Signing day isn’t until February, though.

Now that I have addressed your question, you can address mine.

Let me pass on a little advice to you – when trying to understand why institutions make decisions, you need to put your own mindset and biases aside and try to adopt those of the decision makers at that other institution.

The Texas AD and the big cigars are motivated by $$$. The Congregation of the Holy Cross priests at Notre Dame have more money than God – they ask for it when needed, and it flows in by the billions. Money is a given.

To understand them, look at their mission statement – it says it all:

“The University of Notre Dame is a Catholic academic community of higher learning, animated from its origins by the Congregation of Holy Cross. The University is dedicated to the pursuit and sharing of truth for its own sake. As a Catholic university, one of its distinctive goals is to provide a forum where, through free inquiry and open discussion, the various lines of Catholic thought may intersect with all the forms of knowledge found in the arts, sciences, professions, and every other area of human scholarship and creativity.”

Guess what? They really believe all that! They believe their most important function is to form young minds into being witnessing, vibrant Catholic youth who will change the world for the better. If you want to know how they’ll fly with regards to conference alignment, you need to look at their motivations through the prism of their misson statement.

They LIKE being able to admit whoever they like. The LIKE being able to discipline kids as they see fit. They LIKE the freedom to play who they choose, where they choose to play them. The Holy Cross priests want to run their football team as THEY see fit. Their independence allows them to form their student-athletes as they see fit in light of their mission statement.

The Texas mindset is “money cures all”. Notre Dame’s mindset is that the grace of God, bestowed on the Faithful through His church, cures all.

Frankly, neither you nor your “big cigars” have much of a chance of ever understanding them.

JS, you have to realize, Ag_in_Tx knows everything there is to know about everything! That’s why he authors a wildly successful blog about college athletics! Wait, what…….He’s what? Just a douche!? Well nevermind…..

HotRod -

What Aggy Rick didn’t say is that their “Big 12 offense” is only 19-19 under its current mastermind and their “SEC defense” was ranked a mighty 55th in the nation last year.

“hornfan27 said:

August 23rd, 2011 at 12:50 pm

I think those that are saying ND never joins the B12 may know what they are talking about. But their are naive if they think ND keeps their indy status long term."

This is exactly right. You have to think outside the present paradigm to understand why independence may not serve them any more. Also, in case no ones been paying attention, Notre Dame hasn’t exactly been destroying it on the football field in quite a while. Things have changed, Notre Dame is still a prominent program and national brand but it’s power has been waning behind it’s historical facade. It may not want to cast it’s lot in with the rust belt teams that are suffering because of economic depression and permanent demographic changes. Nothing lasts forever.

Aliens on Alpha Centauri who were monitoring our EM leakage for signs of intelligent life are dejectedly realigning their reception dishes based on this blog post.

1.34 parsecs/3×10^8m/s = 4.365 years of me laughing at your dumb ass.

Thanks for the ND science.

Would their God look postively upon some random assclown creating a fake website to bear false witness against an 18-year old out of spite?

Or is their God Raptor Jesus, who probably approves this kind of shit for breakfast while rocking out to sick metal by playing a badass air guitar?

I had a very good source that told me he was saying A&M. Obviously, for now, he was wrong.

Signing day isn’t until February, though.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME! You still think you have a shot to get JG?!? That just makes you sound stupid….no need for elaborate names here…..‘STUPID’ covers the full spectrum that is Ag_in_Tx

So many new names coming out of the woodwork… Ags – don’t you have something better to do than troll our site? Get a life.

SEC Defense: LSU sez “Come at me, bubba!”

I apologize for all of the Ags on here. I posted this on TexAgs.

If you ever do that again I will personally ban your ass from this site for life.

Keep your pants on, folks. This is all just talk at this stage.

I am also skeptical of the ND to the Big 12 talk. However, I can see their wanting to expand their presence in Texas for one big reason: football recruiting. Ever since college football went to a style of play emphasizing speed over power, ND has fallen behind. Look at their last few (undeserved) BCS bowl appearances. They didn’t have the athletes to stay with elite competition, particularly on defense, and got blown out. Same with most of their games with USC.

Those ND alums may love their traditions. They also love winning and are likely aware that they will need to shake some things up in order to be a power again. A bigger presence in this area that will enhance their appeal to Texas recruits makes a lot of sense to me. As Newy said, everything is negotiable. There are a lot of ways ND could work that. I’m glad to hear that talks are ongoing.

Ag_in_TX – read my comment above. Lots of people on the board agree with you about ND’s likelihood of joining the Big 12 – even Scipio. JS even insinuated that the scenario was implausible in comments. You’re just hashing ground covered a hundred times in this thread already.

Nonetheless, the UT folks told the Big Cigar this stuff or something very close to it. Not much reason to doubt that. JS just passes along what Big Cigar says because history shows that the Big Cig is connected and doesn’t make shit up.

Discussing the motivation behind the message seems to me to be a much more fruitful kind of conversation than continuing to press the one issue on which virtually everyone agrees with you.

So let me get this straight. ND stops playing Michigan and Purdue to play Baylor and KSU? Me thinks Big Cigar is smoking something else.

A Pac 16 that adds Texas, OU, BYU, Tech or Oklahoma St would be an incredible conference in basketball and football and the confluence of Texas and California high school talent across all of the sub-elite schools will create SEC style depth and quality. Throw in the raw numbers of potential TV eyeballs, look at demo trends, it’s not hard to see what this could be.

To say nothing of what it will do for Baseball, Golf, Swmming, Track & Field and Tennis.

My problem with the Pac 16 is how many of our games in every sport will be televised at 9, 10, or 11 on the East Coast. I want no part of the Pac 10 unless we can get some sort of agreement where our games will be televised at reasonable times.

Is Big Cigar also the source for Chip Brown? It sounds like he may be TOO STEEPED in Longhorn politics to be rational.

If we go back to twelve teams and ND could play five teams from the North (MIssouri, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State and BYU) combined with two games from the south this would give them a schedule that would allow them to still schedule the rivalries they have developed with the likes of USC etc.

They would also be able to still have all of their home games aired by NBC. This combined with the additional revenues that ABC/ESPN and Fox would pay would provide a huge increase in revenues.

It puts them in a BCS AQ conference.

This would give ND a much stronger league for sports other than football. Basketball for example with Kansas, Texas, OU, OSU, Missouri, Baylor, ND and Brigham Young would be a very strong conference.

It allows them to preserve the tradition that they are very proud of and it would make their other sports programs stronger as well as increase revenue substantially. Sounds like it is worth their time to consider.

hopefulhorn said:

August 23rd, 2011 at 1:21 pm

“Keep your pants on, folks. This is all just talk at this stage.
Those ND alums may love their traditions. They also love winning and are likely aware that they will need to shake some things up in order to be a power again.”

Traditions are cast off when what you’ve been doing is no longer working.

Right Aggies?

A Pac 16 that adds Texas, OU, BYU, Tech or Oklahoma St would be an incredible conference in basketball and football and the confluence of Texas and California high school talent across all of the sub-elite schools will create SEC style depth and quality. Throw in the raw numbers of potential TV eyeballs, look at demo trends, it’s not hard to see what this could be.

But the Pac-10 passed on adding BYU during the last round.

I agree that the recruiting base of a Pac-16 would rival that of the SEC, although I’m not sold such a conference really is a “conference.” It’d be more like a loose confederation of 2 smaller conferences.

I don’t see UT eying the Pac as the ultimate destination. It’s more like the fallback position should the Big 12 implode. No way would UT trade its position as Top Dog to be part of the pac(k).

Not to mention the best road trip settings in the history of Man.

Yeah, Pullman & Corvallis are on the list of 1,000 Places to See Before You Die.

I’m not sure why this is such an emotional issue for some folks. Ags, your leaving the Big 12 isn’t going to be the glorious triumph over big brother that you appear to be imagining. You’re moving to a better conference. Congrats.

As for Texas, we’re going to sort out how to best position ourselves for the future, and given the unlimited resources and instrumental allies in our corner, I’m confident we’ll be happy with where we end up. Excuse us if we attempt to engage in a discussion about where that might be.

@Ag in TX

Here’s the Texas anm Mission Statement. Please read the last sentence about “traditions”

I don’t see anything in it that talks about going to an academically inferior conference, but that’s what you’re doing. I don’t try to pretend to read your minds, don’t pretend you can read the Domers.

Texas A&M University is dedicated to the discovery, development, communication, and application of knowledge in a wide range of academic and professional fields. Its mission of providing the highest quality undergraduate and graduate programs is inseparable from its mission of developing new understandings through research and creativity. It prepares students to assume roles in leadership, responsibility, and service to society. Texas A&M assumes as its historic trust the maintenance of freedom of inquiry and an intellectual environment nurturing the human mind and spirit. It welcomes and seeks to serve persons of all racial, ethnic, and geographic groups, women and men alike, as it addresses the needs of an increasingly diverse population and a global economy. In the twenty-first century, Texas A&M University seeks to assume a place of preeminence among public universities while respecting its history and traditions.

Fact #1: Baylor can’t stop the Ags and they know it. But they can muck the process up with legal manuevers to a point where it is seriously slowed down and Aggy has to pay more than they’d want to. The SEC wants to and will avoid any Aggy exits that don;t include getting their shit on order with the Big 12. They said so. Meanwhile, Texas would magnaimously assist the Baptists financially from the Aggy payment for their efforts. Further, Tech, Baylor and their minions, (see Jones, Buddy and Hance, Kenneth) can also extract future pounds of funding flesh from Aggy in the Lege sessions beginning in January 2013 behind the scenes along with us. Anyone who doesn’t know these things doesn’t understand the process.

Also, Aggy may believe they can escape withsome minimal payment for breach, but the Big 12 already has a figure calculated and it’s prodigious.

Fact #2: Whether anyone believes it will bear fruit or not, the Big 12 has been in serious discussions with ND since this whole thing started and that is from an unimpeachable Big 12 Executive. The immediate fix will be BYU. For the near term future, Notre Dame will remain close to the phone because Aggy leaving and BYU coming in is only the beginning of what the Big 12 may look like in the next 3-5 years.
 
Fact #3: OU will not abandon OSU because (1) they don’t want to and (2) T. Boone wouldn’t allow it or would make it extremely difficult. The latter is moot because these two can despise each other on the athletic field but co-exist in a manner that benefits each other and their state in all other matters. Aggy doesn’t possess that gene, which is why they’re tucking their tails and leaving.

JoeTx -
 
Yeah, Pullman & Corvallis are on the list of 1,000 Places to See Before You Die.
 
Good point. How can they compare to College Station, Lubbock, Stillwater, Manhattan, and Ames.
 
Try on Salt Lake City, Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles (Rose Bowl and Coliseum), Phoenix, Eugene….

Wahoo: As far as late football starts, it depends on if they have pods. If they go east-west, you have a maximum of three PT starts per year, and that’s if they hit Arizona before November. I’d bet two at the most.

Now, basketball is a different story. But even there, the Pac currently schedules a lot of Thursday conference games in an early/late fashion. Not everything goes late. Saturday games go throughout the day.

Agree completely with hoyahorn. A&M is not getting over on Texas. But many fans sure think they are.

Scip – Would they really degrade their road schedule that much? I haven’t made many road trips, so maybe these are great places to play, but of the ~5 away games they play each year, they seem to have their fair share of crap destinations:
2011: Michigan, Pitt, Purdue, Wake Forest, Stanford
2010: MSU, BC, USC
2009: Michigan, Pitt, Purdue, Stanford
2008: MSU, NC, WU, BC, Navy, USC

They have some good and bad in my opinion. Maybe Wake, Navy, Purdue, and Pitt are better road venues than I’d guess. I’ve never been. I’m in the camp that think they don’t come to the Big 12, but with 3 or 4 non con games (if we made it back to 12 teams), they can still schedule 1 to 2 of these good away games, plus they will also have games at UT, Mizzou, and OU every other year. That’s 2-4 good away games a year, about the same as what they’ve been doing.

I think the biggest factor for ND would be that they would actually have to average more than 4.5 away games per year over a 4 year peroid.

Ag, did you really buy all that Catholicism stuff you wrote about Notre Dame? Cause that’s funny if you did. Who’d they give an honorary degree to a couple years back?

ut-06 -
 
Get a map.

Concerns about scheduling gametimes are overblown. I could write an Excel macro in minutes that would handle that.

And since this kind of thread should really be about contemplating options if A&M leaves and BYU comes in, is there any motivation at the higher levels to get back to 12 schools? If so, who are the targets? I know that there was some scuttlebutt about how the Big 12 was looking into replacements, would we really raid C-USA to get back to 12 teams?

BYU, Iowa St., Kansas, Kansas St., Missouri plus one more in the north with Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St., Texas, Texas Tech plus one more in the south?

@ Scipio – True, none of the destinations in the Big 12 (minus Austin, of course) are anything to write home about.

I’ll give you Seattle, San Fran, & L.A., but SLC, Phoenix, & Eugene? Are you serious?

The problem is, how often will we see the Horns head out to Seattle, San Fran, & L.A.? This goes back to my theory that a 16-team conference isn’t much of one.

Plus, your oft-repeated drum beat for the Pac isn’t for selfish reasons, is it? You live in San Fran, right? Of course you want UT in the Pac. For the rest of us in the Central Time Zone, it’s not so convenient.

I read this as an expression of the UT and ND negotiating position. Baylor will screw up A&M’s move to the SEC via the courts and the legislature and UT and Tech (and probably TCU, U of H, and other schools in Texas) will be assisting mightily (though possibly stealthily at first for UT). UT and A&M and Tech are state schools that have much less freedom of action than most fans think. The legislature will discourage and punish anything that is not good for the state of Texas. No university in Texas (except for A&M) wants the cheating SEC in Texas. We’ve experienced A&M cheating before and widespread cheating in university football in the state of Texas and nobody wants to relive that experience.

Notre Dame isn’t going to join the Big 12 but they want to stay out of the Big 10 as long as possible. Pretending to be interested in the Big 12 enhances their negotiating position. A loose collection of independents in football that maximizes their autonomy and revenue is what ND, UT, and BYU really want. Joining a super conference that reduces their power, revenue, and autonomy is not interesting to them.

UT pulls the strings in the Big 12 and winning the Big 12 provides an automatic path to a BCS bowl game and an easy path to an MNC game so UT is happy to stay with the Big 12. The Big 12 is also great for basketball and reduces travel, cost, and inconvenience to athletes for the minor sports (compared to flying to the west coast or the rust belt) The key thing that UT would like to accomplish if it stays in the Big 12 is to improve the viability of the Big 12. Don’t be surprised if preserving the viability of the Big 12 is not a large consideration in the selection of new members to the Big 12 (for example, TCU) rather than focusing strictly on revenue enhancement.

Ha, just because towns aren’t fucking NYC, doesn’t mean they’re not worth going to. Pullman and Corvallis are both beautiful, as are most towns in the Pacific Northwest. I’d rather go to either of those towns for a game than many touristy shit holes.

Aggie Rick said:

August 23rd, 2011 at 12:43 pm

We have a B12 offense and a SEC defense. No matter what path Mike F’n Sherman leads us through we Aggies know we will end up in Championship-land.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Boulder, Tempe, Tuscon……There are only like 1 or 2 places out of 12 that are not ideal to go to.

In terms of travel there is no comparison.

uthookem,

As has previously been stated, Notre Dame willingly leaves tens of millions of dollars on the table annually in the name of tradition. The Big Ten offers them more than the Big 12, and leaves more of their traditions intact, yet they rebuff Jim Delany’s offer every single time.

If Notre Dame is motivated by money, and they aren’t, they’d have joined the Big Ten last summer.

Aggie Rick is a bit, guys. Like 50 Years Watching, or Vasherized.

Bob – I’m not concerned about the football games because if we’re in a 16 team conference, we’ll probably only play 1-2 games on the West Coast anway. What I worry about is basketball, volleyball, soccer, etc. – the kind of stuff that we will supposedly get to watch on the LHN. Perhaps it will be irrelevant because the LHN won’t exist if we join the Pac 16?

Huckleberry – I don’t see anyone that we could add that I would care about adding to the conference. If we’re adding BYU and ND is a no go, I don’t see why we would go above 10 teams.

Joe Tx -
 
Yes, I’m serious. Oregon is God’s country and incredibly gorgeous and Autzen is a fantastic game day environment, SLC is awesome in the Fall and sits 30 minutes from Park City and Sundance as well as near the best national parks in the country and Tempe kicks the shit out of every road trip in the Big 12. Travel, then opine.
 
True, my entire plan in life is to bring Texas to the Pac because it benefits me solely. You’ve figured me out. It has nothing to do with seeing good football in awesome venues or aligning our school with like-minded academic institutions and exploiting obvious demographic trends.
 
How could any person reasonably advance the Pac 16 over the glory of the current Big 12 or endless road trips to the dying, bleak Midwest?
 
And if a 6:00 pm kickoff on the West Coast hurts your bed time on a Saturday night, you’ve got bigger issues.

1) Baylor is getting really annoying in all of this

2) me thinks this is a mole hunt and hopefully big cigar didn’t out himself with this “info”

3) is this was to drive up traffic, JS really got everyone in a frenzy, well done.

4) ag_n_tx cannot be a 45 year old male, not possible.

aw, innit cute, ag_in_tx getting all hot and bothered at the notion that, despite his best efforts, someone else might be the laughingstock of the interwebs. Even going so far as to try his hand at Charlie Chan dialogue. Why not go all out and include some fake ‘Confucius say’ jewels too? Like, for instance:
Confucius say: “Ag_in_TX arguing with Longhorn like aggie facing sheep on high stump – much furious action and building frustration, but unfortunately, aggie at different level.”

I can’t see ND (or anyone really notable just joining the Big12. But for that matter, it’s hard to see the existing structure of conferences really being the end-all in a decade or two, and I’m not at all sure that 16-team superconferences wouldn’t just exacerbate existing problems. The lower tiers of every conference are littered with teams and schools that really don’t quite fit. Let’s face it, when we talk about someone like ND joining and playing Iowa and Kansas States, well, meh. At the same time, when aggies talk of the glorious SEC, they rarely mention Vandy and Miss St.

We’ll see what happens… one thing that’s fairly easy to predict though – whatever aTm does, and whatever we do, we’ll still be at a different level…

“I also doubt that ND will want to join the Big XII as a full member. The impression I have is that they will try to maintain their football independence for as long as is pratically possible. What strikes me as more possible is that ND might switch its other sports affiliation to the Big XII and play 3-4 Big XII football opponents a year. They have a similar arrangement currently with the Big East, and I think switching to Big XII would be an upgrade for ND in terms of better weather, access to Texas HS recruits and a schedule upgrade from the Big East (excepting basketball).”

This. Most people don’t seem to realize that ND is independent in football only. For all other sports, it is a member of the Big East. I could see ND switching its non-football conference affiliation to the BIG XII and play a few football games with BIG XII members (examples: open the season in Arlington against OU, play Texas on Thanksgiving, maybe one or two other rotating games). If BYU is brought in as a full member, this makes for a 10-team football conference (with ND sprinkled in) and an 11-team non-football conference.

Why doesnt the Big 12 show IOWA St the front door and recruit another powerschool? BYU and ND (If true) would buy that?

UT
OU
Okst
Mizzou
UK
Kst
Tech
Baylor
BYU****
ND****
Pick 1? (TCU or Houston)
Pick 2? (Louisville)

It’s really hard for me to believe that revenue was never discussed when ND originally decided to go independent.

While I agree that the Big 12-3 isn’t a great fit for ND (not even close), a guaranteed slate of home-and-aways with Texas and BYU is attractive, especially late in the season. I think Texas keeps it’s Big 12-3 schedule, but adds permanent strength of schedule through ND and BYU.

I would only be for a Pac 16 deal if there is no East West division. Otherwise we have the remnants of the Big XII sprinkled in with a BYU or Utah and the AZ schools.

We would play the true West Coast teams on the road once every 4 years.

Not as much sizzle there as I would like. The lesser lights of the Big XII are a real albatross right now. And by that I mean everybody but OU.

ND to the Big XII could have worked when Nebraska and Colorado were still around, but if you end up losing Nebraska, CU and ATM and adding BYU and Air Force and somehow that is supposed to entice ND, well Trips Right isnt in danger of burning up.

I am more concerned that UT is holding out to lead a huge seismic shift in college athletics but the rest of the world isnt there yet. If we hold on to a dying conference while we wait that out, the brand isnt getting any better. The conference without ATM is a dog, frankly.

I think it is really interesting that nobody hears boo from Oklahoma these days.

Distorted reality is an ambiguous experience in that it can be viewed in many ways some of which are more positive than others. To ensure our view is credible our brain accepts what we see and our eye looks for what our brain wants. The conspiracy of 2 servants is a fulcrum of reality and illusion. Our brain and eyes mislead us. They conspire together to support the belief or distort reality to fit our expectations. (UT Psychologist describing Aggie Rick, ag_in_tx, and Aggies in general)

As posted previously, the day of independents is coming to an end. In order to qualify for the BCS a conference membership will be required. I think Notre Dame understands this and is preparing for it.

Mebbe ND would like to go from recruiting in California, Ohio, and Pennsylvania to recruiting in California, Ohio, and Pennsylvania and Texas? Right now, they have more players from North Carolina than from Texas.

SLC, Phoenix, & Eugene? Are you serious?

I second Scipio’s comments. Those are all upgrades — bigtime — to where we go now.

Very interesting developments. I’d much prefer keeping the Big 12 a separate entity from the Pac 12 as long as possible – and this seems like a viable means of doing so.

@magnus Certainly ND has its hypocrisies, but I have met quite a few ND grads who believe the degree from South Bend was more than just a degree and more something of a commissioning. Contrary to popular opinion, the idea that “To whom much is given much is expected” was spoken by a Jewish Carpenter before it became the basic take-home of a web-slinging superhero.

As many have already stated the liklihood of ND joining the B12 is nil. As Dagga stated we should all be reading between the lines. I agree on both counts. That being said, if BYU does join who would be another? Serious question here: why am I not hearing anything about TCU? I could very well be missing something, but we have Tx school in a good recruiting market, decent academics, and a damn good football team. (recently) Would they be interested in the B12? I should certainly think so. Why wouldn’t we want them included? Someone help me out with what I missed.

“But the Pac-10 passed on adding BYU during the last round.”

BYU actually passed on the Pac-10, because they didn’t like the revenue sharing terms (no payout in first year, and only partial sharing in subsequent years). Utah and Colorado were willing to join in spite of the second-class citizenship for the first few years. I don’t think that was public knowledge, but something I just heard from a higher-up at BYU who would know.

I also heard from my colleague on the athletics committee here at BYU (I’m on the faculty at BYU after getting a PhD from Texas) that BYU feels obligated to honor its agreement with the WCC for its other sports. I guess that’s the honorable position to take, but I don’t see how it would hurt the WCC much if we pulled out—they’d just be back to where they were last year. Either way, it doesn’t necessarily preclude some sort of affiliation in football.

Also, the President of BYU said today in his kick-off address to the faculty that we should disregard any rumours or prognostications about new athletic affiliations for BYU, that we are “happy where we are at.” Of course, he wouldn’t say anything different until after a deal were done and announced, so there’s probably nothing to take away from that.

“Serious question here: why am I not hearing anything about TCU? I could very well be missing something, but we have Tx school in a good recruiting market, decent academics, and a damn good football team.”

The Big XII already does well enough in DFW. We don’t need a small private school that can’t seem to sell out their small stadium even when they’re good that is located in the same metro as Big XII HQ.

ND= the only program more arrogant thant tu.
Do you really think they are going to hitch the wagon to the whorns? tu is toxic.
OR, maybe I didn’t get the memo that ND is now run by a gaggle jacktards and is actually considering this.

Afhorn -
 
Correct on BYU. And don’t underestimate the value of BYUTV. That network has much more than just athletics to sell.

“Also, the President of BYU said today in his kick-off address to the faculty that we should disregard any rumours or prognostications about new athletic affiliations for BYU, that we are "happy where we are at." Of course, he wouldn’t say anything different until after a deal were done and announced, so there’s probably nothing to take away from that.”

AFhorn -

Isn’t that like the owner of a football team saying that the coach isn’t going anywhere, right before he fires him? Or like Nick Saban telling the world 16 times that he is staying in Miami before the press conference in Tuscaloosa?

Scandal Man -

TCU doesn’t add anything to the conference. They don’t deliver any additional TV sets, they don’t expand the territory of the conference, and they don’t have a large, rabid fanbase.

About all they offer is an opportunity for Dallas-area alumni of other Big 12 schools to fill up a road game every other year.

Everyone seems to be preoccupied with the present. Maybe Dodds and Swarbick are not thinking about what the conference will be like in two years, but instead they’re concerned with waht it will be like in 5 years. Maybe they are aware that the future REALLY IS superconferences. Maybe Swarbick and Dodds are interested in creating the 5th superconference in which they and Castiglione are in control. Wouldn’t it be advantageous to UT, OU, and ND to run a 16 team superconference in which they are the ones with all of the advantages and power? It really seems like a lot of the posters on here aren’t thinking about what maybe Dodds and company already consider “the future”. Seriouly guys, I have the same reservations as to why ND would join a 12 team Big 12, but I don’t have any such concerns to why ND would join a 16 team superconference that allows them their TV rights and allows them access to a +1 National Championship game. Seriously guys, is Cohiba Grande that deluded? Or are we not thinking in the same context as him and Dodds?

Also, Notre Dame will never snub the Big 10 because that is where they will end up when it is all said and done. No one is going to jump on the sinking ship of the Big XII and flip off a VALID conference.

Sorry for my earlier diatribe.

Scip – agreed 100%. If the Pac 16 isn’t somehow the endgame in all of this, I’ll be pissed. Any other long-term arrangement being discussed is either depressing or pie-in-the-sky.

+

“We have a B12 offense and a SEC defense.” Kansa & Vanderbilt

I still think the Big Ten makes a lot more sense than some sort of loose collection of the Pac 8 and the Big XII. Playing a california schools once every year or two doesn’t even make it seem like we’re in the same conference.

Kansas

SlowSand – then the Domers you know are more naive than the Domers that I know or at least are more willing to justify it. But, I’m not trying to take this conversation in that direction -I was merely illustrating that Ag_in_Tx knows not of which he speaks. Of course I can’t do that as well as he can.

@ Wahoo and Huckleberry,
How I missed that is beyond me. No more margs at lunch I guess. Thanks for helping me out.
@ Jo Tx,
As several have pointed out, The Pac NW is stunning! I would jump at the chance to go to Eugene not only for the game but to have a long weekend and see Crater Lake, or Mt Hood, hell the OR Coast is amazing. Pullman? Wash is almost as pretty as OR. Go see the Columbia River Gorge sometime. Not trying to write a Conde Nest article here, but damn, go see some of the places you are slaming before you slam them. To even think of taking Ames over Eugene sounds as if it came out of a diseased Yak.

Serious question here: why am I not hearing anything about TCU?

Because if you can’t fill your 44,000 seat stadium you don’t get big boy football.

I think there’s a lot more to this than just what Grande Cigarro put out in this thread/

Like a lot of you, I don’t see the Big 12 – 2 or 3 being the end game. However, I could see some combination of UT, OU, Mizzou, KU, and OSU coming together with the Irish, BYU, maybe arkie, and maybe the ’Zona schools as the basis for a conference that could become a super conference.

Unless De Loss Dodds has suddenly gotten dumb overnight, which I seriously doubt, he’s probably thinking two, or three years down the road as far as what’s doable that leaves the Horns in the best position for several decades to come. Face it, nobody knows what shape college athletics is going to take, especially big college football, after the next five years or so when some contracts start running out. A playoff may not be imminent, but might become more of a reality a few years down the road. Bottom line, anybody who thinks Dodds is going to allow UT to become second class in football or anything else hasn’t been paying attention.

As for agricultural, I buy that we’re pretty willing to let them make the mistake they’re about to. That would mean we’re no longer tied to them, and a lot of things become more possible than they’ve been for the last decade plus.

I’m gonna get the popcorn ready…this is gonna be fun to watch.

jinx -

That’s right (see my last sentence).

However, my sense is that the BYU brass would be reluctant to join a conference so quickly after making the jump to independence. Some speculate that BYU’s independence is a temporary move to position itself for future conference realignments, but I don’t think so. Their ultimate objective is to maximize exposure for BYU (and the LDS Church). In other words, they want to use the football program (and other sports) to get eyes on BYUTV, as much (or more) as they want to use BYUTV to get exposure for the football program.

That said, there’s plenty of buzz and excitement around here from the fan perspective about the possibility of joining the Big 12. I, for one, would love it, and if Air Force (my undergrad alma mater) got into the mix as some have suggested, I think my head would explode. As an AF fan, I was pretty pissed about what happened to the Mountain West with Utah, BYU, and now TCU all bailing, but Texas, BYU, and AF all in the same conference would be a dream scenario for me.

Wahoo: Each of these options have good points and blemishes. One blemish on the Pac is the PT starts.

It seems as though Baylor is also angling for an SEC invite.

Certain Temple RB:

Transfer

Thanks for 10 minutes of hilarity.

AFhorn, I would point out that the only football game on BYU TV this year (so far) is Idaho State.

BYU has a mission like ND has a mission… and they both still prefer to get their games on ESPN.

“Aggie Lurking said:

August 23rd, 2011 at 3:34 pm

Thanks for 10 minutes of hilarity."

Sure, and likewise THANK YOU for a lifetime of it.

Scip,

I was just wondering if your constant whining about UT’s decision not to go the Pac didn’t have a personal component.

UT is remaining in the Big 12 b/c TPTB WANT it to. UT is getting EVERYTHING it wants:

1. Membership in a BCS conference w/ a fairly easy road to the MNC, especially now there’s no Big 12 championship game;
2. Being THE Big Kahuna in said conference; and
3. Having a university-only network that not only promotes The University, but brings in even more dough.

Perhaps I lost my burnt orange-colored glasses, but I believe the conference realignment mess worked out exactly as UT wanted it to, although I’m not sure UT wanted NU & CU to leave.

Finally, outside of the B1G, athletic conference affiliation has NOTHING to do w/ academic collaboration. Having been involved in research, I know faculty members collaborate w/ those from other universities based on peer-reviewed publications, meeting at symposiums, etc. They don’t give a damn if the FB teams of their employers play each other.

Can’t we just accept how things worked out instead of bitching about it?

AFhorn,

I seriously doubt the claim that BYU turned down a Pac offer. I think there’s no way: 1) the Pac would’ve invited BYU in the first place; & 2) BYU would turn down an invite, especially after their archrival got one.

I think BYU went independent b/c: 1) it was embarrassed that it didn’t get a Pac invite; & 2) it didn’t want to live w/ the shame of getting left behind in a worse conference.

This reeks of middle school drama relationship from both us and A&M where we both say ’I’ll show him. We didn’t want to hang out with him anyway.’

Scip, it’s not just about you. A move for Texas to the Pac-whatever benefits me as well.

September 17th can’t get here soon enough.

This all seems like information that was released for a reason. I won’t speculate on what, exactly, the end game is, but I can’t imagine the BC would give JS the OK to release this info unless he had been given the OK to as well. This has to play into Bellmont’s game plan.

Delete thread ban big cigar.

Joetx -
I don’t know for sure that it’s true, it’s just what I was told. It may be revisionist history to some extent, but I don’t think it’s implausible. BYU and Utah are pretty comparable in terms of the quality of their football programs while BYU has larger, more national fanbase, so it’s not impossible that there were some quiet discussions with the Pac 10. It’s also not unreasonable that BYU would look at the financial deal the Pac-10 was offering and decide that independence was a better option, given the infrastructure that they already had in place. I can at least confidently say that embarassment and shame were NOT the primary motivators for BYU going independent.

What is really funny is we started the Network, got everyone pissed off, and not one single cable network will pick it up. Therefore, no one outside the stadium will get to see the game.

I don’t know of a single cable network negotiation that didn’t go down to the wire. (Literally — as in, a renewal is signed minutes before it’s about to be cut off.) It just seems to be how the entire industry is run, for reasons unbeknownst to me. There’s still a couple days before the official launch and a week and a half before Rice, so it doesn’t surprise me in the least that they haven’t inked contracts yet.

This JS post is so beyond belief there are literally no words to describe its rank stupidity. JS, you have topped your own egotistic insanity like never before. Next, you have really stepped out on a limb, because you are about to come off looking like the fool that you are when none of your predictions come true in a week’s time.

Besides, the incredible overuse of the words, cosmonauts and cats on this site is mind-numbing. Go read Peter Bean. He actually makes sense.

What is really funny is we started the Network, got everyone pissed off, and not one single cable network will pick it up. Therefore, no one outside the stadium will get to see the game.

You forgot master-planned communities in Houston!

A&M is going to the SEC and Baylor won’t stop them or even slow them down. In 2012, they will be in league of southern dummies. Good for them, now let’s all move on. Please.

A&M exiting gives Dodds the power he needs to fix this aborted conference. Step one is to clear out the clutter of the remaining teams in the B12. I’m looking at you ISU, BU and KSU. Be gone. I’d also oust Tech but we all know about our problem child. That leaves us with 6 teams, four with real input and two little brothers who will speak when spoken to or be cast aside like pieces of (trailor) trash. The power four include: OU, Texas, Missouri and Kansas.

Step two is to add ND and BYU and keep this league at eight teams with 5 conference games. The league keeps its BCS status and has an alignment with 5 bowl games. Tie breakers for conference champions goes to highest ranked team, which favors who? Us, OU and ND. That’s who. What you have is a conference that works like a coallition of teams caused by the tiny number of conference games. ND can keep it’s traditional games and play 5 conference games. We can maximize our home games for the LHN.

Step three is to jump to the best situation. This new “conference” allows for UT, OU and ND to be flexible when the super conference idea really heats up. Just so you know, that won’t be when aggy yells, “hey, watch this!” and jumps to its death in the SEC.

Big Cigar must be back on the sauce.

ND ain’t coming to the current big xii and playing Iowa State, Baylor, Kansas, TT and the like every year. They already have a nice path the BCS games and want to play a national schedule not a bunch of small market non-entities. . Talk to anyone at ND. Not happening

Baylor only cares about staying in a big boy conference. The big iii is barely one, but it’s plenty for Baylor. They only way Baylor tries to do anything is if the big xii is in danger of falling apart.

Everybody needs to get off the TCU bandwagon. Hooray for their fine teams of the last decade or two, but for a long time before and I mean decades before, they were the bottom of the barrell and I’m not just talking SWC but D1 football, They were the worst or close to worst D1 program for decades. Good hire to bring in Fran ( Patterson ), but what happens when he leaves? For all we know they may go back to their bottom of the barrell days. Do you want to be tied to that forever?

As far as ND, I understand it seems implausible that they would come to the B12, but being older than dirt I can remember a time when they wouldnt play in bowl games. They then said they would but only in special bowl games like when a NC was at stake. It wasnt many years before they would accept an invite to the Meinieke Muffler Bowl just like everyone else. As far as all those “rivalry” games they would have to leave behind, if you have 7 big rivals you have none. I can see them wanting to do their own network and comng to B12, though I know its a slim chance, is their avenue for that. Like someone else said the B10 area if the country is dying. The B12 part of the country is more dynamic and better recruiting area as well.

Maybe there is room for a conference that allows schools to have their own networks. Think about Arky. I have never thought the Hogs would leave as the SEC as they are so culturally in tune with the SEC. But anyone that has ever been in Arky knows that state is just rabid abot the pigs. Unlike some of the other states in the SEC, they dont share the state with another big program. There is no Auburn, Georgia Tech, Miss St.., FSU or the U to share the state with. If TLN goesover well, you dont think Ark. might not begin to drool? I know its not a very big state, but every inbred hillbilly shack in that state would have to have the Razorback Network. Think about how many Arkies live in Texas and would pay extra to get that channel

In sum
1) I dont now whats going to happen
2) Deloss Dodds is the snmartest man in CFB nd I bet he knows exactly where this whole thing is going.

“Perhaps I lost my burnt orange-colored glasses, but I believe the conference realignment mess worked out exactly as UT wanted it to, although I’m not sure UT wanted NU & CU to leave.”

Of course, these being the only teams that have left, it’s an understandable detail to miss.

Thanks for this very interesting information. Realignment is as fascinating as recruiting in my book. A sort of intellectual sports art form. Or divination.

I cannot for the life of me ever see ND joining the B12. They play about 5 B10 teams every year, year-in and year-out. Yet ND will somehow join the B12 — a dying conference — if aggy joins the SEC? Even moreso if MO leaves for the SEC?

The advertised lure is ND can keep the ND network. From what I read, Jim Delany and the B10 would accommodate ND if it will join the B10. Especially if Texas also joins. Delany wants the grand slam of realignment: both Texas and ND.

Furthermore, why in the world would ND ever want to join the PAC10? Huh?
A school located in Indiana is going to join the PAC10 when a superior conference — the B10 — is sitting right there in its back yard? In its front yard too? Most unlikely.

BYU? BYU is suddenly an anchor school for a conference? When did this come about? The PAC10 could have picked BYU last year instead of Utah if they wanted to. But suddenly BYU — BYU! — is going to “save” Texas and the B12? I don’t think so.

MO to the SEC? With aggy? Yea, that could happen. In fact, I think it’s highly likely that when aggy goes to the SEC, the SEC will raid the B12 for their 14th school. The SEC will go to at least 14 schools with an outside shot of going all the way to 16 (although 14 is most likely at this time).

I think the SEC’s first choice to pair with aggy (other than Texas) would be OU. MO second. But I think they’d take either OU or MO with aggy. And aggy’s leaving, make no mistake.

So where does that leave the B12? Back to Notre Dame.

If — and I stress “if” — Notre Dame does join the B12 when aggy leaves, then yes, maybe the B12 could be reconstructed. BYU’s totally irrelevant to the equation. Let’s see if ND comes absolutely. And if they do, fine, BYU would join in a New York minute, no questions asked. Then add a couple of other little sisters of the poor and see what happens.

However, if ND does not come, then you cannot reconstruct a premier conference with the likes of BYU, Air Force, Colorado State, New Mexico, Boise State, TCU, SMU, Houston, Memphis State, etc., etc.

I mean, seriously, is that the kind of conference Texas really wants to be in? How many mutliple All American’s and Heisman types can we expect to see from those schools from year to year; how many NCs are those schools going to be vying for from year to year; how many times are those schools going to fill up their little stadiums from year to year; how many TV sets are going to tune into those schools from year to year; how many of those schools are ever going to join the elite of academic institutions?

Personally, the B10 makes the most sense for Texas, not the PAC10. Which division would you rather be in? Texas, maybe OU, Wisconsin, MInnesota, Illinois, Nebraska, maybe Missouri, Iowa? Or Texas, OU, Utah, Arizona, Arizona State, Texas Tech, Baylor, Oklahoma State? Also, don’t underestimate the importance of time zones to Texas’ athletic fortunes either, and the B10 is the ideal Central and Eastern.

If Texas joined the B10, for many reasons it is likely Notre Dame would choose the B10 also. How about a yearly cross-over game at Thanksgiving with ND in the B10? That would very likely happen.

The Big Cigar may well know what he’s talking about, and we’ll find out soon now. Because aggy is hellbent on leaving. ND to the B12 will happen by June, or … it won’t. I’m betting on won’t.

God Bless Jesus and Cohiba Grande!

PS i will back you up before BON any day. The cigar got me through a tough time last year. Thank you.

Nevermind the SEVERAL longterm rivalries (Michigan, USC, Navy, Purdue, Michigan State, Army) they’d have to give up to play the likes of ISU and Kansas.

For the record, I’m skeptical that Notre Dame will ever join the Big 12 too. But it’s not a fucking rivalry just because you play every year. Or are Baylor and Oklahoma State Texas’ rivals?

IF WE LEAVE THE BIG 12 WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THE RIVALRY WITH BAYLOR?!?

I am freaking out here.

Notre Dame has 6 rivals they play every year-Michigan, USC, mich ST, navy, purdue, Pitt. Which three do they drop to play Iowa ST, Kansas and k state every year?

Again: it’s not a fucking rivalry just because you play every year.

Ransom: That’s a bullshit statement even for you.

So then who do they drop to okay Iowa ST, Kansas, and k state?

The rivalry with Baylor is just something that we will have to cry into our pillows.

It will be difficult to give up the Bears, but buck up — We’re Texas.

Be strong, bigdukesix, be strong.

yeah, you youngsters only know about texas vs arkansas from a couple of disparate contests in the past few years. you’ve heard about the classic game in ‘69 and james street and all. what you probably don’t realize is that we had a rivalry with the arkies that was just about identical to the one with the sooners, except that it was an intra-conference rivalry. nobody in the swc could usually match the horns and the razorbacks. couple of years after they bailed on us we could hardly remember playing them.

1962 Texas-Arkysaw – Best. Game. Evar.

Three – count ’em: THREE – heart attacks stretchered out of the west stands (duh). Ambulance rolled in on the track… away they went. Game went on. Never found out what happened to them old farts.

Hilarious on so many levels.
It would appear the only sane person on this board is XOVERX. His lengthy post above is so spot on there’s nothing to add to it. Texas, ND (and probably OK) will be in the Big Ten within five years. Why? Not because I’m some Big Ten homer but because point by point it’s the most logical choice. And yes, Delany will cave on giving them special treatment -for the first decade. Also, would someone explain to me how a conference with four of the country’s 8 most populous states (Ohio, Illinois, Pennsylvania and Michigan) is a dying region compared to the lilliputian states that comprise most of the BIG2 and PAC 12 footprints? Besides, it’s not as if were ever going to see the Pacific Ocean when we join the Lower East Dustbowl conference of the PAC16. How many of you have ever watched football while eating breakfast. Bacon and Pigskins, ain’t fun, believe me. …..Big Ten here we come.

Will never happen.

ok, the ’70 cotton bowl at the end of the ’69 season was the first bowl game for notre dame in something like 50 years. it was on jan 1st back then, of course, about 3 weeks after the game of the century between texas and arkansas (with nixon helicoptering in and the whole college football nation watching, since it was the only game played that day, the saturday following the regular season).

then, several days before the cotton bowl, the texas and notre dame teams, their staffs, various state office holders, and numerous others who managed to finagle access got together for a banquet there in dallas. one of the speakers was the governor, who gave the welcome to the domers. unfortunately, it was preston smith of dear old lubbock, and he butchered half the names he said and apparently didn’t realize nd is not in illinois. the notre dame coach was ara parseghian, and smith pronounced his name ‘parskin’ a couple of times. when coach parseghian rose to accept the welcome, he thanked governor smythe for the warm welcome. i don’t think the governor ever understood what happened and why people were laughing.

following the meal the teams left immediately and the rest of us milled about. governor smith stood off to the side where people could come over and meet him. he stood at the end of a long pathway that turned immediately to the right just before it got to him. my intended became irritated looking for her father and stormed off to locate him. she blazed down that long walkway right at the governor who smiled his welcome to her. unbeknownst to her, unfortunately, for, as the good governor extended his hand in greeting to her, she immediately took the right turn, leaving me, who was doing his best to keep up with her and not have three of us lost, looking at the perplexed governor who had just had the whole room howling at him.

i really felt sorry for the guy, but my tootsie was making such time that all i could do was shrug at the bewildered man and veer off after her.

If true, and that’s a very big if, this reeks of desperation by UT. I cant imagine ND joining the Big 12. They might add a 1-1, but join the conference? Please. Why on earth would they do that. Unfortunately i think the Aggies will leave. Thats too bad. If Aggies leave and we dont play them, we go from 2 national games to 1 (and Nebraska was arguably turning into a 3rd). Not good for the LNH…and not good for already sagging ticket sales…..

 You seriously want to shell out to watch TX play rice, Iowa st, baylor, KSt, missouri, and Kansas? Spend an entire day to go watch teams without one single NFL prospect? You get fired up for that? I dont. Who cares about these games, they are filler. Something to switch to while watching “college football” brought to us by the REAL conferences…….

. . . not good for already sagging ticket sales.

you know, i do believe the sky does look lower.

Oh and for the record, I don’t give a shit about ND and even less for BYU. The last decade or so I have watched the ND games sporadically just to see how badly they will get blown out and listen to the forlorn announcers…. It would be great to add them as a 1-1, but kind of like adding UCLA. Interesting to watch, but more compelling at thanksgiving vs the Aggies? Hardly.

I love the Aggie game, even more than OU. It is Texas backyard football, and we all grew up playing each other as kids, and rooting for 1 team or the other and keeping bragging rights for the year. Trust me, something with that much raw and honest emotion is impossible to replace.

This is seriously fucked up by both UT and A&M.

If ND joins the conference, can the contract stipulate that we have to turn off the Dumbotron and ban in-stadium advertising, at least when we play them? If we get all of this new TV revenue, will face value to see Texas Tech still be $95?

Yeh, I was thinking of rushing out and buying a “mini plan” (or two!), what with the limited quantities and all, but then thought…nah.

Juice!!! What up!

I think the contract must state that the Dumbotron plays Nine Inch Nails Head Like a Hole when Notre Dame takes the field.

I just wanted to add my hat to the NO WAY ND joins the big 12 conference.

Thank you.

Big chesty, bloviating opinion!! Sarcastic comeback! Putdown!

Intractable, spectrum-stretching, absolute black-and-white position! Defense thereof!!

More sarcasm!!! Another putdown!

Speculation, speculation, speculation, speculation, speculation.

ZINGER!!!!

(Did I miss anything? I’m trying to create a template to make participating in threads like these easier.)

I appreciate Jake Lonergan’s insights and info on the political aspects of A&M’s would be jump. This will be interesting to watch, putting it mildly. I also keep thinking about Slive’s remarks about not wanting to be seen as raiding another conference or contributing to chaos. SEC voted to not give an invite at thus time. If the works get gummed up enough, it may be awhile before the SEC rolls out the carpet with great fanfare.

Let me clear up some of the misconceptions about Notre Dame’s schedule. They’re an independent — late-season scheduling is a challenge.

Thus (1) Navy, which is also an independent; Notre Dame wouldn’t stop playing Navy (D.C.-Baltimore exposure), but they wouldn’t have to play every year; this was not an every-year meeting until recent seasons; (2) Recent regular meetings with Boston College and Pittsburgh are partially the offshoot of those schools having been independents for many years; there are historical/traditional reasons to play schools like that. Plus, they’re in major cities with tons of Notre Dame alums (some actual, many wannabe); (3) Notre Dame plays USC on Thanksgiving weekend EVERY OTHER YEAR. In LA. The USC at Notre Dame game in South Bend is in October — has been since the Trojans ran into an ice storm in Indiana around 1964 and John McKay said “never again at the end of the season back there.” USC’s meetings with Stanford in November have been in years when the Irish hosted USC; (4) Notre Dame is not exactly playing 12 powerhouse BCS teams every year. In recent seasons, the Irish have played San Diego State, Connecticut, Nevada, Western Michigan, Army and Tulsa, and they play South Florida, Maryland and Wake Forest this year . . . Iowa State and Baylor are no worse than these.

No. I don’ t believe the 2014 Big 12 Title Game will match Notre Dame and the OU-Texas winner.

Can’t see Notre Dame being wooed into the Big 12, and eventually Dodds will realize that the only remaining direction for him to go in is west, as in Pac-16. I predict that by mid-decade, you will have three 16-member leagues and two more of 12 members, plus independent Notre Dame, comprise the BCS. (No current BCS member will lose its status — important to the likes of Baylor, Iowa State or Wake Forest — and there is no way ND will surrender its football independence, even if it meant not being part of the BCS.)

Here’s the landscape, come 2016:

PAC-16
Coastal: California, Oregon, Oregon State, Southern Cal, Stanford, UCLA, Washington, Washington State (the old Pac-8)
Continental: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Utah (Texas, realizing football independence puts the rest of its athletic program in a bind, assimilates the Longhorn Network into the Pac)

SEC
East: Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, North Carolina State, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Virginia Tech
West: Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Texas A&M
(Missouri finds a home in the SEC after being spurned by the Big Ten, while Tech and N.C. State wind up in the SEC as part of a two-pronged raid of the ACC, with the other prong coming from the…)

BIG TEN
South: Duke, Indiana, Maryland, North Carolina, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue, Virginia
North: Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin
(Big Ten takes the academic/athletic core of the ACC, substantially boosting its already strong research and getting a booming area for Big Ten Network subscriptions)

Those are the 16-team conferences. Who are the ones with 12?

ACC
North: Boston College, Connecticut, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, West Virginia
South: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami, South Florida, Wake Forest
(The six ACC remnants — including several purposely isolated by the SEC to protect South Carolina, Georgia and Florida — take in six from the Big East, which ceases to sponsor football, while its three westernmost members go to a reconstituted…)

BIG 12
East: Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Louisville, Memphis
West: Baylor, Boise State, Brigham Young, Houston, Nevada, Texas Christian
(Surprise — the post-Texas Big 12 lives with its four remaining members taking in three from the Big East and filling out with a few others, notably Boise and BYU)

Please sweet Jesus don’t make me watch/care about big 10 football every year. Someone will have to pay

llog is on the right track, although I would love to see Cal and Stanford pulled out of the Pac 12 into a new arrangement with ND/BYU. UT has affinity with these strong academic schools and much in common, other than geography. Does anybody think this is feasible? Going super could bring back TCU and Arkansas. I like that a lot. Bye Aggie!

…hmmm…wait and see. ND and BYU slide in? That may be a stretch…we will see. Say what about Hawaii?

Navy and ND have played every year since 1927.

OrangeBro – Regarding the “dying region” talk, it has to do with this:

Enough of this bullshit. Where is the tuesday practice report?

Lonhorn NY said:
I love the Aggie game, even more than OU.

yeah, but that’s just because you’re an aggie. For the Longhorns, the OU game is the only truly indispensable game.

ballrific,

Don’t you mean canary trap?

It don’t make a shit. I’m driving to collie station first thing in the morning and personally kicking those inbred f*ckers that call themselves aggy out of this state once and for all.

I can’t wait to be rid of those idiot morons that have done nothing but be a leech on the system.

ADIOS MF’ers!!!

At that banquet before the 1970 Cotton Bowl, after Gov. Smith had butchered Ara Parseghian’s name for the second or third time, Darrell Royal turned to Parseghian apologized and said,

“He went to Texas Tech.”

Change in population maps are fine, but why not also post a map reflecting the actual population of the states? I mean, do you really think Arizona, for example, can maintain a population trajectory to match Illinois, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Indiana, or Ohio?

If you’re comfortable playing in a desert division consisting of Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, and Baylor for the next 100 years, then obviously the PAC10 is your choice. Personally, I’m not real “hot” on such a home division (the division you’re placed in is really what you are buying into during realignment).

Personally, I’d much rather play in a central time zone consisting of Wisconsin, Minnesota, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinios, and Northwestern, with a very real chance for a yearly cross-over game with Notre Dame. In 5 of the 10 most populus states in the Nation.

Quite frankly, compared with a PAC10 desert division, I would say the SEC offers a better long-term home for Texas if we pass on the B10. I mean, If it’s the ocean you’re looking for, there’s plenty of ocean states in the SEC. Because in the PAC10, you aren’t getting to go to California, Oregon, and Washington, except for one game a year. Texas can already schedule one game on the west coast anytime it wants. What Texas will get in the PAC10 is a desert division consisting of, to be blunt, some pretty plain jane partners. We get sand, not California Cool, if we go to the PAC10.

I call B.S. No way Notre Dame jumps in. They would go straight to big 10…

No matter which 16 team super conference of the future we align with, if we don’t go independent, we will still only play one side of the two divisions every year. Big 12, Pac 12 or Big Ten doesn’t matter.

And we would do well with either a western division in the Big Ten consisting of maybe UT, ou, neb, ill, iowa, wisc, minn and northwestern vs. an eastern division of ohio st, nd, mich, msu, psu, indiana, purdue, and say virginia.

Or perhaps reside in a Pac 12 of UT, ou, ok st, utah, ariz, ariz st, col, and maybe tt, or byu.

Well, I think the main reason TPTB at Texas like the PAC10 is that we get to “save” Baylor, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State.

I firmly believe Texas suffers from Florence Nightingale syndrome — we just want to save these other schools so badly due to some obscure and abstruse philanthropic (read: irrational) reasons, to heck with what’s best for Texas. In this respect, I must confess to certain amount of respect for what aggy is doing.

There’s really very few other logical reasons to go west, instead of staying in the middle of the nation with its superior exposure, and excellent partners, in the B10. Or even in the SEC.

I mean, it can’t be “better academics” of the PAC10 because the B10 has 11 of 12 AAU schools. It can’t be California Cool because we would get 1 game per year in CA, OR, and WA, all other times we are stuck in sand. It can’t be exposure because the PAC10 is located in worst sports time zones, oftentimes with games ignored by the influential eastern media due to their late starts. How many times have you fallen asleep watching those PAC10 teams playing at midnight?

No, Texas thing with the PAC10 must be due to doggone old Florence Nightingale. Because the PAC10 desert division, if you think about it all, isn’t all that particularly exciting, is it? If the desert division is exciting, if it’s something that my grandchildren ought to be excited about in the year 2090, please tell me where my thinking is all bumfuggled.

ha. i didn’t know that, srr. thanks for sharing.

oh, it was bad. we were all groaning. and i think parseghian was actually pretty pissed. he was humorous and graceful, but i recall thinking his dander was up.

actually, i was pissed. and when my cutie-tootie stiffed the guv, my first thought was that she did that on purpose out of disgust, but when i brought it up to her when she slowed down, she was dumfounded. she was so ticked at her dad that she wasn’t even looking at people and had no idea what she had done.

poor old smith looked a bit like wile e coyote before the bomb goes off.

I don’t think there is much, if any possibility of ND joining the big 12 without bringing in someone other than BYU. I think replacing the aggy Thanksgiving game with ND would be much more likely without the ND conference affiliation.

This is the same Preston Smith who in 1970 in a speech in Houston thought all those protestors yelling “Free Leotis” were yelling “frijoles”. Later he inquired of a reporter…“frijoles? Isn’t that some kinda Mexican bean?”.

 I’m shocked that he couldn’t pronounce Parseghian’s name correctly!!

Oh, and I’m patiently awaiting my daily fix from the asset. Where it be?

Lonergan -
 
Practice tonight was in shells.
 
No practice tomorrow.

Practice report is up.

I think the thing to keep in mind is that Texas and Notre Dame have similar interests and want to be in as advantageous position as possible before the superconference alignment thingy starts to fall. Arguably, BYU and OU have similar interests.

What’s similar about them? They all have national audiences for the major revenue enhacing sport— football. All want a certain degree of independence— whether it be to maximize revenues, embrace tradition, or attract even more followers on a national scale.

If a new conference is formed from this base of 4, it will need to be from the ground up— in other words, the Big 12 will need to be rebranded and totally recomposed.

What surprises me is that most people get caught in the traditional mindset of conference structures and are not thinking through how flexible the arrangement can be— especially for football. For example, a 4 pod conference with 4 teams each can be established with each lead program (ND, TX, OU and BYU) inviting its conference members. Each school plays each member from its pod— after that, there’s all sorts of flexibility to schedule in-conference or out of conference games. Near the end of the season, the highest ranked pod members play in a 2 week playoff for what the BCS will want— a conference champion from at least a 16 team pool.

As for the non-revenue sports, open inviations will be sent to all conference members for a 3 year commitment. If the conference has 12 teams for track and 8 teams for tennis— so be it. The purpose here is to provide a structure for conference competiton— not to mandate it for each and every member.

Admittedly, the basis of such a conference may or may not work. At the very least, though, it buys time to determine what course of action is best for the 4 schools. Eventually, I think the powers in the Big 10 and Pac 12 eventually provide major concessions for at least the ND and Texas programs— especially if they’ve proven successful in bringing in national audiences and getting great ratings. But there’s also the possibility that this new conference structure may actually work longer than expected— and work out quite well.

Here’s a hypothetical pod structure (by no means is this meant to be perfect):

TX Pod: TX, Tech, Baylor, TCU
OU Pod: OU, Okie St, Kansas, Mizzou
ND Pod: ND, Navy, Pitt, Boston College
BYU Pod: BYU, Air Force, Boise State, San Diego State

Texas — plays Tech, Baylor and TCU in-pod each season; then 3 out-of-pod games… either annual rivalries (OU, ND and BYU)… or rotating assignments (Okie St, Navy, Air Force)… or a mix (OU each year, plus 2 rotating). There is then room for 3 or 4 out of conference games (to maintain traditions and/or strengthen schedule, i.e., Notre Dame still has room for Purdue, Meatchicken, and Meatchicken Jr., plus USC).

Regardless of schedle, the highest ranked Pod teams compete for 2 week conference playoff at predetermined locations. This is a total of 12 potential games for the conference champion and runner-up.

If other football programs like the foundation of the conference and want to maintain a degree of independence in establishing their own networks (and potentially other revenue streams)— there is room to expand.

If all else fails, ND, TX, OU and BYU can schedule each other for 3 guaranteed games each year— and fill the rest of the schedule out of conference- as if they were all independents. Then at the tail end of the year, play each other for BCS bowl eligibility. This may make more sense than anything else.

The Bobs,

Nope, I am not an Aggie. I am a Longhorn grad.

My sister is an Aggie, as is her husband (it makes for a fun Chritsmas). II have friends who are Aggies. And I love the game because it is unique and everyone gets really pissed off about it, one way or another. Just look at all the Aggie threads on BC.

Yes, OU is indispensable. The Aggoe game is just as indispensable.

If we stop playing them, I will miss that game.

“Yes, OU is indispensable. The Aggoe game is just as indispensable.”

Oh the aggoe game is spensable alright. Very very spensable, and we’re gonna prove it.

Whatever

All this bullshit feels like anguishing over pro players contract discussions and new stadium deals.That’s not what I love about sports, in fact it’s the reason that allowed me to quit following the pros. I’ll just follow the Horns when I’m told whoever we play but IF we did get invited & / or go to the BIg 10 I’d pay very large yankee dollars to be presnt when Tom Osborne got the news.

" I’d pay very large yankee dollars to be presnt when Tom Osborne got the news."
“present”

I’m with XoverX about the Pac-16. We’ll all like it for the first few years. Then we’ll be wondering why the hell we’re playing Arizona in 120 degree heat. “But its a dry heat” MY ASS. I want the Big 10 or to stay put.

No one watches the west coast games outside of the west coast. We’ll arguably get LESS exposure than we have now. EVEN WITH THE LHN. If nobody sees your damn games, nobody writes about you. Nobody sees your highlights on SportsCenter. All the storylines are set and rarely include the west coast teams whose games end past midnight central time in most cases. Of course their are exceptions, but generally speaking unless its USC, we don’t see many Pac-10 games on at 2:30pm.

I’ll go ahead and chip in my $0.02.

First of all, I’ve been saying from the get-go that Dodds and Castiglione were hand-in-hand on this. Name one thing UT got out of the Big 12 restructuring deal that OU either didn’t or couldn’t theoretically get. Bigger payout? Check. Third tier rights? Check. The difference is that Texas has an inherently larger market to sell their rights. Sometimes you hit a triple, but sometimes you were just born on third base. For UT, this is the latter situation.

That said, Joe Castiglione is in literally no danger of being fired. Neither now, nor in the near future. Your cigar whiffed on that one. The powers that be in Norman WERE pissed off about the Longhorn Network when it looked like they were going to get to broadcast high school games. If you want to blame any one person for killing that, blame Joe C. He allied the entire conference against ESPN and UT in less than a week. It was a simple two step to get everyone back to happy, and there’s been news stories backing this up. #1 Go end-around on the LHN by involving the NCAA and A&M. #2 Show the Board of Regents that an OU Network run like the LHN is not presently viable. Both of those things have happened.

XOVERX is right about the Pac 16. We would be in the desert division and this idea of glamorous road trips to Los Angeles/Palo Alto/Seattle is pixie dust.

Overall it could work but if they go by geography its going to be a big meh.

Powers wants to go Big 10, hence the discussion of the “Tech problem.” If ATM gets to go to the SEC without restrictions, Texas will do the same.

Shotgun marriages dont last and this is another example. And I dont doubt the Big Cigar, I just think he is being fed some bullshit and knows that. There are ulterior motives out there obviously but ND to the Big XII is a pipe dream.

correction, obviously Texas wouldnt go SEC, just go without any tagalongs.

“All the storylines are set and rarely include the west coast teams whose games end past midnight central time in most cases. Of course their are exceptions, but generally speaking unless its USC, we don’t see many Pac-10 games on at 2:30pm.”

Pac__ games involving a team from Central time will be seen by at least half the country at a time of day when everyone will be awake. Merging Central, Mountain, and Pacific time zones and altering start times to accomodate that are simple to achieve no brainers. Huckleberry claims he could have a functional schedule grid printed out in two spins of his helmet propeller, and I’d bet on it. Nationally televised games played on the west coast will have afternoon kickoffs.

FWIW, put me in the future Pac__ camp.

Helping aggy to leave is like pitching in to buy rope when someone wants to hang themselves…..Do you need a chair too? Here, borrow mine.

I, of course, am more than happy to pitch in a few sheckels

If you want to hear what Dodds is exploring with Notre Dame, listen to his remarks. It goes beyond adding Notre Dame to the Big 12. From :50 on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_vWxElAmHc&list=PLEB3F069B54C766FB&index=5

The SEC will have all eyes on the Fighting Texas A&M Aggie offense this year, thinking they can start gameplanning us for 2012.

The joke is on them. Johnny F’g Football is going to take the reigns of our O and turn that conference on its head. As witnessed by thousands in Texas, the man can not be stopped. Whoop!!!

bullzak, XOVERX, etc. – y’all are crazy. Some random counterpoints:

• Your collective attempts to claim Midwestern demographics are equal to that of the West and Southwest have both the LBJ School and the Econ department in titters. The economic decline of the Midwest is, simply put, the central defining feature of 21st century American economic geography. Continue to argue this point and I will bitchslap you with so many statistics you head will twist off its spine.

*A 16-team conference likely would not be a simple two-division setup. The only 16-team conference in NCAA history was the WAC and they had two divisions each with two 4-team scheduling “zones”, where you play your zone plus two teams in each of the other zones every year. Some configuration like that would probably be required to get the AZ schools to go along with the deal, but I’m pretty sure the other schools would all favor it as well; that way, every school can get USC, Oregon, UT, and OU on the home schedule every four years rather than every eight. Tradeoff is, you don’t play every team in your division. So? The Big Ten managed that just fine, and didn’t even bother to put a check on it with a championship game.

• Time zones, schmime zones. Let’s say you’re ABC and deciding when you want to run the UT-USC game in Pasadena. Do you choose the 7 PM PST slot? Hell no. Fact is, allowing CST schools into the Pac 16 would increase national exposure to the conference by leaps and bounds because it would force the networks to consider a national audience rather than just a West Coast one. Plus, repeat after me: California recruiting.

• If you think September in Tempe is worse than November in Wisconsin, y’all must also prefer Manwich over the Salt Lick. “Arizona girls in short shorts and halter tops? Nah, I’d rather shovel my pale chubby nasal-sounding sweatshirt-bedecked women out of a six-foot snowdrift, thank you.”

Dagga, I think youre reaching man.

My point is that playing OU, OSU, Tech, Utah, AZ and ASU every fucking year isnt going to be much of an improvement. You assume there wont be a geographical split. That is a gigantic assumption.

If we work out a true round-robin deal so I can book some LA and Seattle action I am in all the way, early kickoffs be damned.

I dont have any closet love for the failed Midwest economic model. As a resident of Chicago I see it firsthand. As residents of the United States, we are all seeing it firsthand, but we can take that to the fascinating economic forum.

UT fancies itself a public ivy institution like Michigan or Wisconsin. I dont discount that as much as others do.

As for bitchslapping anybody with stats, I wouldnt trot out California, Oregon and Arizona as paragons of economic virtue at the moment although I would take their future over the rust belt to be sure.

Not an Ag or longhorn.
Total Sooner, but a rational one.

I got the impression that Texas has been in the driver seat and controlled the future of the big 12 and obviously its own destiny for quite some time. However, I think that things have turned a bit. Obviously Texas is going to always be a draw based on the interest and tradition, but I believe the LHN may have taken Texas out of the driver’s seat with respect to “guiding” this conference. With the baggage that Texas now has b/c of the LHN, the previously interested conferences do not appear to be as starry-eyed as they once were.

I am certainly not indicating that Texas will have difficulty finding an interested conference, but I do believe that the bargaining power that they once had is not nearly as persuasive when a conference has to contend with the demands that Texas will certainly place as a new school in the conference.

I am not sure where the issue of Boren, JC and Stoops having an acrimonious relationship is stemming from, but there is nothing that lends credibility to this allegation. If there were differing opinions as to where OU would land or where OU promotes itself between the three (really two….Bob may have input but not a lot of weight), these would not be the type of things flying around on random blogs somewhere. JC’s job is not in jeopardy.

I have no idea where OU will end up. I do believe that OU has, up to this point, appeared to have loyalty to UT and OSU in trying to preserve some aspect of tradition and consistency within the conference. But, we are also not going to sit idly by and watch the conference dissolve without an escape plan. I believe that OU’s ties to UT and the previous steadfast belief that a conference that includes OU and UT is for the best, is withering away with the addition of the LHN and the resulting departures of two solid schools.

I don’t fault UT for the LHN. It was a great idea and obviously a huge revenue generator (if it can find a carrier). However, it was also the catalyst that has devolved this conference into a shell of its former self. My opinion (for what little it is worth) is that OU is going to lessen its grip on the idea that we need to preserve the union of these two schools. OU and its fans have already seen that the long standing tradition of playing Nebraska every year (or nearly) is gone.

While a tough pill to swallow, I believe OU controls every bit the fate of this league as UT. OU is just as an attractive draw as UT to other conferences and those other conferences are not dealing with the headache of the demands that Texas will have (LHN).

I think the idea that BYU, much less Notre Dame would jump to a crumbling conference with no leadership or direction, is completely baffling. I can buy that Texas has the stones and the capability to be an independent, but I don’t buy that Texas is going to become the puppet master that controls all the schools in this conference (and several that are out of the conference) into forming a pretty new conference.

also, with respect to A&M going to the SEC…

I am not saying it isn’t going to happen, but why would the SEC want another Miss St.?

I am certainly not indicating that Texas will have difficulty finding an interested conference, but I do believe that the bargaining power that they once had is not nearly as persuasive when a conference has to contend with the demands that Texas will certainly place as a new school in the conference.

Texas’s last two conferences left it sorely lacking in TV money. Texas didn’t really get motivated to try to monetize with the LHN until it came out that Northwestern got more than twice as much TV money as Texas because of the BTN. Because Texas could do something about that, it did it.

The next stop won’t be so much Texas trying to have its way as Texas making sure that it is covered financially. If they’re in with peers — Big Ten or Pac — I think you’ll be surprised at how quiet things will be. And if they went with the SEC, they’d be more concerned about how people handle their business as opposed to whether there would be enough to go around.

As to OU and the Big 12, I think a lot of people — including Dodds — believed that OU was the more important player than A&M after last year’s departures, and I think that’s how it’s going to work out.

I don’t think that Dodds & Co. have ever been high on the Pac 10/12. The Big 10 is and always has been the objective. The problem is that the Big 10 isn’t interested in Baylor, Tech or Aggie, and UT doesn’t have the appetite to face the heat of being the Big XII homewrecker or the first to make a solo jump. Instead, we’re going to let Aggie take those honors with a bit of subtle, psychological encouragement (or, certainly, no real resistance) from their Longhorn big brother.

I do think that UT and ND have had many recent discussions about being together in the same conference, just not the Big XII. A Big 10 package deal involving both UT and ND might give UT and ND enough leverage to retain the lion’s share of their separate TV rights for some period of time.

i can see texas fitting in with the big ten people after a period of adjustment. texas has had to watch its back and keep its hand on its wallet so long that it would take a while to get used to something different.

that said, i really don’t think texas will ever go there. just a gut feel.

hey, just a few more and this thread will ring the 300 bell. wonder who gets the 300th one.

“UT doesn’t have the appetite to face the heat of being the Big XII homewrecker or the first to make a solo jump”

Not only do I agree with you, I think OU is operating under the exact same perspective. They don’t want to be the one that implodes a conference that was pretty much sinking anyway. I assume OU’s feeling in that regard stems from being tied to the old big 8 teams for so long.

I think a more likely scenario would be the Big 12 folding up shop if A&M bolts. Then Tx and OU go independent with a loose agreement with BYU and ND. The winner of the 4 gets the automatic BCS bid that the Big 12 had. The split the BCS pie 4 ways and its a win win for everyone involved and allows them to not get sucked into the super conference mayhem. I could even imagine one or two other schools wanting in. Everyone can keep the rivalry games they love and at worse if all four teams are sucking in a given year you get another Big East caliber school in the BCS.

Jerry, the BCS never would go for that. The B12 is still a going concern, for now.

I don’t get the PST argument at all…Was USC hurting for airtime this last decade? Nope, they pretty much had the late time slot all to itself (as opposed to fighting with Alabama, ND, Florida, UT etc.) for eyeballs at the mid Sat. slot. And frankly our recruiting has been and probably will stay better on the West Coast than it would be in the Midwest.

Also, UT/A&M is not as national as we would like to think. Frankly, people on the East Coast could give a rat’s ass about the game.

With all due respect, I think some of the people who are dismissing the Big Ten because of its Midwest persona need to recognize that the long term intention of the Big Ten (in expanding) is not to retain its regional identity but to truly go national. Based on what I’ve heard, Delany, who is one stubborn SOB, is rock solid in his determination to get four colleges. ND, Texas, North Carolina and Duke. Does that mean it’s going to happen? Of course not, but he definitely has a Capt. Ahab type mentality when it comes to the White Whale of expansion. Delany who is an NC grad and in deep with their administration has made it clear that if the ACC goes wobbly, they can expect an invite along with two of their friends. The funny thing about ND is that, although they play all their other sports in the Big East, academically, it is the Big Ten that they have a mutually reliant relationship with. Their back and forth dealings concerning research, guest lecturers etc. are a century old and particularly strong with Michigan and Purdue. If they were to join another conference, and sever those historic ties, their world, academically speaking, would be turned upside down. That is not happening. If the Big Ten goes to twenty, and I believe it will, it will look to shed its Midwest label and literally brand itself as worldwide, with the BTN being their own ESPN. In ten years time ‘sports network’ contracts will be a thing of the past. In this digital age, Middle men are for suckers and Delany knows this all too well. For his grand vision to work, however, he needs big hitters. He may not get the grand slam (Texas) he wants, but you can bet he’ll swing for the fences nonetheless.

Pretty much have to agree with Bravo’s premises. I think OU hae bit the same stroke as Texas as far as being a power merchant. The innate advantage that Texas has over OU is being located dead center in the richest recruiting state in the country.

All the posturing, talk about money, conferences are simply a manifestation of the main criteria. Alabama, USC, OU, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Florida State, TEXAS – none of these schools are relevent or monied without the top football recruits. No one has any stroke without sustained winning on the nat’l picture – this drives interest which drives demand which drive TV revenues which results in POWER and leverage for the school.

Texas has done this for the past 10 years and this isn’t arrogance but simply a fact. As a result – Texas negotiated LHN because of nat’l interest – another fact.

It amuses me to hear the blather from our competitors complaining about LHN because they would jump at the chance if THEY could. College Station and the aggies have had an inferiority complex for 100 years and they have finally broken. They don’t have the draw to compete with UT and get their own network so they are running. Just buh-bye is all I can say.

You psyche majors and medicos should have an opinion about this. How does an entire college, steeped in anti-UT brainwashing for over a 100 years, deal with the abrupt elimination of a rival that has been it’s culture and reason to exist? Frankly, I think there is danger of a psychological melt down culminating in severe withdrawel and deep depression.

We should be ashamed.

I apologize for the typos and crappy sentence structure – my prescriptions were somewhat the same

I think there was some (albeit remote) possibility of ND to the Big XII before Aggie decided to bolt. Big 12-2, plus ND, plus BYU. I think that possiblity is now gone.

EVERYONE should watch the video that Back to Fence Sitting provided the link to, not just for the ND bit, but MAINLY for the reasoning behind staying in the Big 12-2.

Combine that w/ the interview w/ Powers in the Statesman, & you’ll understand (or at least you should understand if you leave your biases behind):

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/decision-on-athletics-more-nuanced-than-horse-trading-757857.html

Dreaming up scenarios in the Pac-X or B1G are pointless.

And making fun of the locations of our conference brethren looks stupid if Texas loses to them.

I dont think Jake’s political prediction above holds any water. You are completely discounting the Aggie power and pull in the legislature. If any rep tries to pull funding, he faces a different set of pressures way more impactful than where f-ing football games are played.

Branch’s hearing got cancelled because he realized he was about to embark on a career ending exercise. There was tremendous blow back behind the scenes.

Political games will end in empty threats and stalemates.

Nothing to see here, as with most of the crap Jesus puts up. This one is almost as good as the one claiming Brandon Williams was going to leave the OU football program..good try Jesus, but your blatant homerism shines through entirely too easily for me or anyone who doesn’t cheer for the Longhorns to know that your “sources” are not sources at all. Rather, it’s what you decide to make up that day in hopes that maybe you’ll be lucky enough to create a few hits from your articles for some people to actually consider you a journalist instead of acknowledging the fact that your piss poor writing and made up sources don’t fool anyone with half of an education.

Why does A&M have to leave for ND to get invited? Why couldn’t they invite them last year or anytime? (sorry if I missed it scrolling thru some absurd useless posts).

That leads me to believe Dagga’s theory more than any other— leaking of this info for public positioning and political reasons.

capitalizing on your market value and moving to conferrence that will highlight and raise national exposure…I laugh at how y’all call that “tucking and running”, or “cut nose face spite”. Awesome hypocrisy from Texas fans who considered doing same thing last summer; until you figured out a way to do those exact two purposes by staying in conference and exacting expenses on each member. I applaud you.

Hot Dam,

The “heat” I was referring to wasn’t political but, rather, ill will and extreme negative public perception of the 2,000 pound gorilla wrecking the Big XII.

I thought the grandstanding by Branch made him look silly, especially when he made the comment that the Big XII needs to seriously consider Houston and SMU.

I don’t think the TX legislature is nearly as strong a player in this battle as it was back in 1994 or 1995 when the SWC was being disbanded.

The Pac-16 would be a Pac-12 + 4, and anyone with a brain gets that. Even Texas would not move the center of gravity in that conference – it would remain a west coast operation with a west coast sensibility. Drive from Sacramento to Fresno on a Friday night, scanning the AM dial. Drive from San Antonio to Dallas doing the same thing. Totally different sports cultures.

In other words, geography matters more than people want to admit in this “global” economy.

Texas is better off getting paid for the Texas markets as an Independent than it would be dumping the West Coast media markets and Texas into a pool and splitting the loot 16 ways. That’s middle-school math.

Does anyone find this interesting – particularly in light of so many ags contending that THEY made UT kowtow to their wishes with their SEC threats?

“In fact, Powers said, UT chose the Big 12 over the Pacific-10 Conference without knowing what A&M would do.”

My response to “Alex” – don’t troll a UT blog if you don’t like what you read – we won’t miss you, I assure you.

joetx – thanks for pointing out Back to Fence Sitting’s link and reminding me of that article. The whole video interview is actually really interesting and worth watching.

Still, while I think the AAS article in particular draws out the reason we’re not and won’t be in the Big Ten – our “Tech problem” – the only reason we’re not in the Pac 16 right now is because the bottom line didn’t come close to adding up right for the move to happen in 2010. I think the discussions at both links made that clear.

Thing is, the financial landscape is in total flux right now. A&M may not be part of the conference much longer. If/when they leave, our current conference TV partners will be calling to renegotiate their contracts. And everyone will make less money – unless the Big XII and/or the Lege extracts a hefty payday from A&M for their departure, but all that is totally up in the air right now.

Furthermore, when Texas rejected the Pac 10 it seems like Scott was paying attention to the reasons why. Their conference network deal seems designed for integration of the LHN. and their business model – contracting directly with cable providers, 6 regional networks – sounds superior to the Big X1G model. And any network deal for a Pac 16 that includes Texas and OU (and no Baylor) would be astronomical compared to the contract for any other conference. The Rust Belt and the Deep South don’t hold a candle to CA + TX. So I bet their next offer will look a lot better than the last one.

All that being said, I do agree that Dodds in particular seems comfortable with a nine-or-ten team Big XII. He gives reasons and those reasons are sensible. So it’s possible that they’ve made up their mind to do whatever necessary to get the Big 12 through the next 4-5 years and see what the next ESPN offer will be.

But whatever that offer is, the Pac 12 could be ready and able to beat it. And if so…California here we come.

Jake,
gotcha. i still kinda disagree…The Big 12 is not going anywhere, its not getting wrecked, and A&M officials were very cognizant not to do this in a way that would destroy the B12. they knew that would be a huge public perception problem, and there was a big reason that exact verbage was in Loftin’s statements a couple weeks ago.

If the Big 12 goes away, its going to be in a couple years because Texas decides to make it so.

Most random uninvested Texans you talk to understand why they are doing it, just can’t believe they would leave their rivals.

Most other folks…UT folks, and uninvested folks, don’t realize how tired A&M officials are of UT, Baylor and Tech officials publicly and privately pissing on A&M at every opportunity for the past couple years, and especially the aftermath of last years conference agreement. The public relations stunt that UT pulled about “giving money back” (money they were never going to get anyway due to projected revenue above the threshold) and Tech mouthing off on the issue is a case in point.

Most A&M fans and A&M officials feel like getting away from Tech and Baylor, (especially all of Baylor’s BS) is icing on the cake (a cake that’s full of money and exposure).

Ag, you don’t realize how tired everyone is getting of A&M. Perhaps catching wind of the stench, the SEC just voted down a formal offer to A&M. Get your poop in a group.

Delany, who is one stubborn SOB, is rock solid in his determination to get four colleges. ND, Texas, North Carolina and Duke. Does that mean it’s going to happen? Of course not, but he definitely has a Capt. Ahab type mentality when it comes to the White Whale of expansion. Delany who is an NC grad and in deep with their administration has made it clear that if the ACC goes wobbly, they can expect an invite along with two of their friends.

Expect three of those friends — Maryland, Virginia and Duke — to accompany the Tar Heels to the Big Ten once the ACC starts to totter (as it will soon once the SEC takes a few other members). That gives the conference control of a solid section of the country with four universities that are research powerhouses and have athletic programs that fit BTN needs (e.g., lacrosse, men’s and women’s basketball, baseball). If the Big Ten is seriously interested in 20, as some claim, it can go for Notre Dame as part of a later wave, perhaps incorporating Pittsburgh, Syracuse and Boston College under ND’s wing if Texas isn’t interested.

@ Dagga – Your points are fair enough. It would be foolish for anyone to state that UT will be in the Big 12 forever.

I think UT would leave for the Pac-X only if something catastrophic happened to the Big 12. A departure by A&M does not qualify. (I have posited before that I think BYU is the target to replace A&M.) A departure by OU, OTOH, would.

Let’s wait & see how the upcoming negotiations on the next ABC/ESPN contract go before everyone starts dreaming up division alignments & booking flights. I bet that if it is “competitive” w/ those of the SEC, B1G, & Pac-12, you’ll see UT renew its commitment to the Big 12.

Hook ’em

I have said this before, but think about it.

The Corps of Cadets was and maybe still is what AtM is all about – basically a military school at the core.

If the Corps of Cadets is willing to tuck tail and run instead of fighting and making themselves relevent in the Big 12 as much as UT, what the hell would they do in time of war? Thank God for the real men in the real service academies.

*Thank God for the real men AND women in the service academies.

Here’s what SEC fans think aggy:

http://college-football.si.com/2011/08/25/a-modest-proposal-sec-growth-goes-national/?sct=cf_t11_a1

By the way,

Speaking of that article, and maybe I’ve missed it, but has anyone found any SEC fans or SEC journalists that are actually in favor of adding aggy because I haven’t seen anything.

“…your piss poor writing and made up sources don’t fool anyone with half of an education.”

*

That’s “edumacation”, Alex, and it seems to be pretty effective against those no education at all.

New York Times says the BIG 12 is going to try to lure Arkansas back to go with ND and BYU.
Yeah, right.
You also might want to check out this great article explaining how ESPN is doomed, I say, dooooomed! -Bwahahahaha!
http://outkickthecoverage.com/why-espn-has-already-lost-the-future.php

Hey,

I was talking about BYU and ND to the Big 12 last year: http://remakingcollegefootball.blogspot.com/2010/11/tcu-to-join-big-east.html

Notre Dame AD hisself says you’re full of crap:

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/bohls/entries/2011/08/29/notre_dame_like.html

That’s not the whole intraweb laughing with you – they’re laughing at you.

Sooooo…..when will ND join the conference?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

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