First 2011 Official Texas Football ORg Chart Posted

Surprises:

Josh Cochran the backup LT. I thought Paden Kelly was going to be there but they have him penciled in as backup RT.

John Harris starting.

Dom Jones as the starting TE in front of Grant

Kendall Thompson showing up on the depth chart.

Surprise:

Gideon is 3rd string!

…at snapper

Is the reason Case is QB 2 that it’ll keep him from transferring??

I guess Dom Jones’ academic situation is close to reaching positive resolution

Thanks to Jesus and Scipio Tex for providing the insight to make this depth chart release an uneventful…uh event.

Whats the deal with Diggs not starting? Didnt see that anywhere before this. Also, whats the deal with the wide receivers?

I guess Greenlea will be redshirting.

Mehul,

Don’t fall victim to the ORs. Diggs will be starting since Adrian Phillips will be starting at Nickel. Not sure why they have KV starting at two positions.

Mehul: It says Phillips OR Diggs.

Malcolm as second string kick returner? Interesting.

Barrett Matthews not even listed as H-Back was surprising. Also as dick mentioned Dom Jones ahead of D.J. Grant. Maybe that’s because they want to assert the run first and foremost?

I count 15 true freshmen listed anywhere amongst the O and D.

I read it as Diggs or Phillips starting at CB

I feel pretty uneasy about having Jaxon out there fielding punts but then again it won’t take much to be an upgrade from last year.

Strongside vs. Weak:

When it says Gideon is the strong safety and Hicks the strongside linebacker, that means they are playing to the boundary side against the slot receiver.

Playside in the power sets with Espinosa, Walters, Hopkins, Jones, Johnson & Brown.

That’s gonna be fun for the alley defender.

I think with Safety it should really just be Left and Right instead of Free and Strong.

Good call LS, that’s not something that Big 12 defenses are built to withstand over the course of a game.

What position is “Gunner”?

What position is "Gunner"?

Depends on the program.

Whaley at 2nd string DT is a surprise given where he was six months ago. Not the actual position but the fact he’s in the two deep.

What position is "Gunner"?

QB at Indiana 2012.

pleaseplaykindle -
 
Your fast guys who are split out and run down on punt coverage

Looks like old Dominique Jones is going to be eligible.
 
Also looks like we’re definitely running us the football.
 
Pretty clear message sent to Taylor Bible. Not even listed on the depth chart. Neither is Cotton.
 
Cochran breaks the two deep, but I wonder if an injury at tackle doesn’t make Walters the OT replacement.

The ‘gunner’ positions are the 2 wide outs in punt formation who race down the field to crunch the punt returner or down the football … That was Malcom William’s specialty the last 2 yrs …

I agree its DomJones for run block enforcement.

As Typsy mentioned, MB on the depth chart for kick returner was probably the biggest surprise to me. You will not find too many kick coverage guys who would want to lay the wood to MB when he is in full steam ahead mode…for the fear of getting ran over and knocked the #$%& out. This means submarine tackles would put his legs at risk. I kind of thought we might see Mykkele Thompson on the 4 deep at KR.

In today’s press conference, Mack said he still has not decided on whether or not to redshirt Ash so he does not know whether Ash will appear in the Rice game. That is a big surprise, at least compared to the conventional wisdom on the cosm and BC.

You can’t spell “Ungar” without “Gunner”

Hookem Up,

I agree. It scares me to see Brown’s name returning kicks.

Too many chances of injuries.

It is amazing and awesome that Irby has come back from such a devastating injury to be the starter at H back.

So what is the plan with Bergeron? Is he now a primary RB type instead of a traditional FB?

I’d rather have DBs returning punts in case there is a fake punt.

great to see his name up there starting.

Can one of the overlords explain this QB situation to me? I mean I completely trust and appreciate the info that Jesus’ spins for us here and over at the ‘Cosm, but we were all having at the least a legitimate discussion about Ash playing in the Rice game. Now Mack says he doesn’t even know if Ash is redshirting or not. I’m big time confused here, Ash outplayed nearly everyone physically while making freshman mistakes in camp but the “game manager” Case gets the nod at #2. What gives?

As expected, more or’s than an Athenian Trireme.

A bit of a surprise is that Cody is listed nowhere on the TB depth chart. I hope that Cody is OK with the switch to FB (where he is starting). The switch will better prepare him for the NFL. It will be exciting to see how Harsin uses FBs, H backs and TEs this season. Should be a huge upgrade from last season both in terms of blocking (for both running and passing) and as ball carriers and pass receivers.

nmckenzie1: I’m guessing we may be seeing some slight of hand by Mack, who has lied to the media before and will do so again.
Keep an eye out for Ash having his own package of plays. He may be 3rd string QB but he can be first string operator of the Ash packages.

Am surprised that the walk-on guy McNamara who was channeling Art Monk during the spring game didn’t get a spot, but then again practice reports didn’t say much about him.

The Irby comeback is truly incredible and a testament to how strong this kid is mentally and physically. This piece was nearly a tearjerker for me:

http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/082811aab.html

Mack said he had to do a depth chart. Didn’t say it was going to be the one utilized for the Rice game.

Cochran and Flowers in the two-deep mild surprises to me. Not bad ones.

I worry that Tucker is listed to handle all of the kicking. As I recall, the last time we tried that (2006), the kicker got hurt. Story was he could handle the game activitiy, but the amount of practice it took to be proficient in all three led to an injury.

Am i reading the chart right? It looks like Gilberts at 1 and then at two it is McCoy OR Connor Woods with Ash following. Some of the positions have OR and some have OR and a green line above or below it. I am thinking the green line next to Ash means he is fourth in the order. This is a big surprise especially after everything we have been hearing.

Why is Hicks at Sam backer and Acho at Will? Acho had Sam backer locked up I thought…

The line next to his name means that Ash and Wood share the “OR” as 3rd QB, by my reading.

Just a WAG: maybe Connor’s decision to transfer or not has an impact on whether to redshirt Ash or not. If Connor stays, he would be a good candidate for the QB in the running package. This would give Ash the luxury of a redshirt year. If Connor goes, then Ash is, by default, the running package QB.

I have a feeling Harsin and Diaz could care less what this depth chart looks like. We should see a ton of personnel on the field in multiple formations.

Irby is an inspiration. I’m proud of him regardless of how the year turns our for him. Honestly though, I think he is gonna beast this year.

Nickel – thanks for the update. Macky is one tricky motherf_cker. Most good CEO’s are. Either way I’m completely amped to see Bergeron the Beast truck some Rice cornerback on our first series.

Just to add – it’s perfectly reasonable to list Ash as 3rd on the depth chart & have the Ash package, as has been pointed out before, by listing people behind Ash on the depth chart, you basically guarantee that they will transfer sooner rather than later.

O/U rushing yardage against Rice: 250?

Amen, Kafka.

Here’s to viewing Irby’s rise and return as a precursor for tackle football @ The University.

Few if any outside the friendly confines of Longhorn fandom give us half a shot.

Seemingly all “trained” eyes are fixed on Boomer, aggy and T Boone State.

So much the better.

Magnitude: Just to toot my own horn, I predicted the linebacker designations of Cobbs, Robinson, Acho, and Hicks in my “Longhorn Kickoff 2011” article.

Thank of Robinson and Acho as being more traditional linebackers and Hicks playing in space more and you’ll have an idea of what the depth chart means when it says Hicks is Sam and not Acho.

Assuming they do, I don;t understand why the staff cares if Wood transfers right now unless they really plan on playing Ash. Otherwise, they would have him shirt or McCoy could, since he didn’t last year. You then have a three deep and can pull the shirt off the third stringer if injury disaster strikes. I say Ash will play and play often.

With GG having one year left after this one, Ash would be a RS Fish when Connor comes in if they shirt him and that’s only one year of separation if Connor redshirts. I just don’t see it unless my math is bad.

Arriviste I think your logic is good on this one. They can bring Ash in package specifically for him and get him playing time and still keep the others from jumping ship. I am a little disapointed though because I was hoping he may get the starting position since it sounds like Gilbert has still had some lapses like he did last year. I trust Harsin-White to put the right guy in there and I can’t wait. Season tickets in hand and I will be there first AM on Saturday. I need to pace myself so I am still conscious for the 7 oclock start.

Rumors starting up again that Conner Wood will be transferring. Have you guys heard anything new on that? If he does, I hear the UTEP Miners are in need of a starting QB like Wood. Anybody knows how to contact him? If so, tell him to contact Coach Mike Price. Might as well keep him in Texas.

Sorry, meant to say, Connor not Conner, my bad…

Missing names:

- Chris Jones nowhere to be found at WR; Bryant Jackson is
- Jeremy Hills and Traylon Shead not listed at RB
- Ryan Roberson couldn’t beat out white wonder and fish taco Berryhill at FB
- Kyle Kriegel and Mark Buchanan still MIA at OL
- Taylor Bible and D’Aires Cotton not at DT, as Scipio mentioned; Chris Whaley is
- Christian Scott not listed at S but at least is not in jail
- Non-listed true freshmen: McFarland, Doyle, Greenlea, Hutchins, Moss

Did I miss anyone?

from 247:

brown recluse: I’m surprised Evans is on the depth chart. I didn’t know he’d ever gotten scrimmage.

bobby b: Started practicing last week. Whether it says OR or not, he’s behind Thompson right now if they were to play today.

i don’t recall the situation with evans. has be been injured?

“I say Ash will play and play often.”

Maybe, maybe not. Why did Mack say (today at the press conference) that he hasn’t decided on whether to redshirt Ash? It is hard to believe that it is disinformation aimed at Rice. Most likely Mack is telling the truth and really has not decided about redshirting Ash.

“With GG having one year left after this one, Ash would be a RS Fish when Connor comes in if they shirt him and that’s only one year of separation if Connor redshirts. I just don’t see it unless my math is bad.”

There is nothing wrong with competition at QB. What is insane is not having a competent QB prepared and ready to play when your starting QB goes down. We also don’t know how well either Ash or Brewer will play against big boy competition.

Any other ideas why Mack still hasn’t decided whether to redshirt Ash (5 days before the Rice game)?

Evans has had hamstring issues going back to last year.

Jc25. Christan Scott is suspended for the first 3 games

Ash went from possible starter to possible red shirt in a week. I don’t know whether the asset is an ass-hat or whether mack brown is or whether the kid fell apart.

Only surprise here is seeing the name Malcolm Brown at third string tailback. As with all this stuff, it doesn’t really matter until you see the game. Best case scenario is all questions are answered one way or the other. Worst case scenario, we end up with many more questions.

thanks, ern.

Saw posting earlier stating rumor about OU plane seen in Missouri and collie station.
Any body heard anything like this? I haven’t seen anything on it. Probably a troll but still curious.

justin, malcolm’s early injury and the strong performance by bergeron has this depth chart looking like this. means nothing, as has been noted.

The group of incoming freshman are one heck of a class. Can’t wait for kick-off.

“Only surprise here is seeing the name Malcolm Brown at third string tailback.”
 
Malcolm is or’d as 2nd string TB with Bergeron.

Lots of blocking surfaces in this offense. As someone pointed out you have a full set of personnel who are both blocking surfaces + guys who can catch/run the ball. Cody, Irby, Jones, Grant, Terrell are all capable mutli-purpose players. Can’t wait to see two TE’s & a split out H-back take one to the house on a confused OU defense.

It isn’t just that there are lots of young guys on the two deep, but that so many true freshman are already nip & tuck with experienced upperclass players.

If there is a live internet stream of the Rice game would you guys let us know?

I wonder if Jeremy Hills is wondering why he redshirted last year, now that he’s looking up at two true freshmen, and with Gray on the way.

“It isn’t just that there are lots of young guys on the two deep, but that so many true freshman are already nip & tuck with experienced upperclass players.”

Mack talked about that a bit in his press conference. His main points were that playing so many frosh might indicate that the horns had some problems with earlier classes and that he did not know how the frosh would perform in a stadium with 100,000 fans in the stands. Mack said that teams better beat the horns early in the season because later on (as the frosh get more experienced) it will be tough to beat the horns. This is probably one of those years where the horns go to a not very distinguished bowl game but kick ass in the bowl game.

So The Asset has now reported that ND is going to the Big 12 or at least will play Texas on Thanksgiving, both of which got shotdown today by the ND Athletic Director and that Ash would be the starting QB and Mack says today he might redshirt. Man this dude is nails.

No one ever said that Ash would start. Just that the coaches had devised a package of plays specifically for Ash.

In fact we made an ongoing joke about it, because Jesus was so adamant that Ash had no chance of starting against Rice.

So Poehlman is now a Guard?

Of course the question of the day is not whether Ash is going to start but whether he is going to redshirt.

nordbergeron -
 
Arguing against blatant stupidity has little upside.
 
Horncasting -
 
Someone told me that he lost some mobility due to his knee.

Btw, big props to Jesus and the folks bringing us the practice reports. Devoted readers won’t be surprised at pretty much anything in that depth chart.

Meanwhile, however, this morning’s Statesman had Allen and Hopkins at guard, Kelly as the starting left tackle, Acho at Mike LB, etc.

i would love to see a breakdown of how the statesman’s UT beat writers spend their day. you know, since it obviously is not spend cultivating sources close to the program or actually following the team.

part of me things they are deliberately awful, so that people will be lured to their ever present advertisements and links towards the 247 site.

Time to for Mack’s site to post Harsin’s transcript. Mack has yet to sway him completely to the dark side in having completely insulting, pointless and inane PCs.

The Statesman’s preseason UT stuff looks like it was regurgitated from somebody’s leftover spring training notes. Loaded with mistakes and outdated information. Not only did the paper and its 3-4 UT reporters not have anything resembling practice reports the last few weeks, they evidently ignored the info posted on several UT ’boards that had largely accurate updates.

And some wonder why subscriptions are at an all-time low. And falling. Last one to leave the building, please turn off the lights.

Big Ern, they also had Snow at center and Espinosa at guard. So they literally had every starting position on the line wrong. That is impressive work from the hometown paper, five days before the opener.

I found this site thanks to BON and have been reading it religiously since. Following ya’ll there really wasn’t any surprise in the depth chart. But, if you looked at Kirk and Co.s stuff at the statesmen, the guys at ESPN, BR or pretty much any other outlet, they missed on a lot of this “old news.”

Say what you want about the sources…. but so far this group has been the most accurate. Great job. Especially since the media hasn’t had access to a QB in 9 months.

It’s pretty bold of JS to reaffirm Ash as the starter for Rice after this depth chart has been released. The ’Cosm’s’s reputation is hanging in the balance…

Is it safe to assume we will no longer be getting PC notes or the transcript on MBTF anymore? Is that really “exclusive material” for the new channel which doesn’t even start for most until Wednesday?

I had dinner in Angleton over the weekend and ran into an elderly gentleman wearing a Longhorn national title hat. He has season tickets and he was very excited about his Angleton boys (Monroe and Diggs), as well he should be. I mentioned that I was excited about seeing David Ash play, and he let me know that he would be redshirting to create space between the QBs.

I didn’t even bother getting into further details, and I would take Mack’s words with a grain of salt. Trust in the asset fellas, what motivation does th asset have in fibbing?

Hook ’em!

boy, are there some people who desperately need to trash the jeese. if i needed testament as to his value, there it is right there.

“if i needed testament as to his value, there it is right there.”

It would have been funny if you had said:
“if i needed new testament as to his value, there it is right there.”

kafka – dude, you’re taking a Mack Brown PC waaaay too literally.

Mack never misses a chance to obfuscate. You say, “why would he do that for the Rice game?” Well, did you catch what he was saying before last year’s Rice game?

And why do you think that we’d go the the trouble of installing a special package for a QB who will redshirt? Jesus isn’t the only one to mention that – it’s been discussed on 247, too. Plus it’s Harsin’s MO. Even when he had QBs at the top of their game as starters – Moore, Zabransky, etc. – he brought in running QBs in specialty packages. It’s one more thing for the D to consider every week.

Dismissing all of that because Mack says vague things at a PC is willfully dumb.

Article up on bleacherreport that Connor Wood was on Colorado’s campus. Don’t know how credible the source is though.

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/baW6w

Did you see the press conference DR? Mack was quite explicit that he had not decided whether to redshirt Ash. To say that Mack was vague is false.

Just because the horns have a running package QB does not mean they don’t run it if Ash redshirts. Claiming that I dismissed the concept of a running QB is willfully dishonest and dumb.

I am just pointing out what Mack said since it is a big surprise and interesting to discuss, no need to rub your mangina while micturating.

Last one to leave the building, please turn off the lights.

Not necessary – hasn’t been any power there in quite some time.

This starter… that starter… the other starter…

Two things to keep in mind: first, Mack his own self said that the 2-deep was meaningless for Saturday, that it was just “these are the guys, if kickoff was today – it could change every day”; second, Harsin said that the term “starter” wasn’t all that meaningful, that the people on the field for the first offensive possession will depend on the situation, and that pretty much everybody on the 2-deep and others besides will all see the field. The listed guys will be first under “normal” circumstances – i.e., we take over on our own twenty or so – but if the D gets us a TO right away and we start on the Rice ten, it would likely be some different people to “start”.

Yes, the starters are dynamic. That was the whole point of the Manny Diaz press conference I linked up a week ago.
 
Also, we’re a committee at a number of skill positions. Longhorn fans who still don’t get that there has been a sea change will see soon enough.

Wow kafka, be a bigger dick please. We can disagree without bringing my dry chafing ladyparts into it.

And yes, I’d say “we haven’t decided” is a vague answer, no matter how clearly he says it. Mack’s PCs should only be deciphered with an understanding that the man’s playing politics every time he opens his mouth to the press. My guess is, it’s Coachspeak for “we have a player who’s deciding whether to transfer and I’d rather not say anything that would unduly influence his decision.” Or “we want Gilbert to think that if he plays all-world, then Ash won’t be breathing down his neck”.

Bottom line: they’re not going to give a kid damn near 50% of the snaps in fall scrimmages and spend weeks installing a special package for him and then suddenly redshirt him one week before the opener. Thinking otherwise is being either ardently contrarian or ignorant of how Mack works.

With Wood going to CO is it likely that Ash redshirts? Could it be we are waiting to bring Ash in late, like closer to the OU game, to give their defense something else to worry about at the last minute?

Maybe this is evidence of the new thinking of New Mack vs. Old Mack, but I seem to remember Mack saying in past years that he didn’t even consider redshirting players until the middle of the season. Is him referencing Ash in this instance an exception based on Ash’s ability? Or is further evidence that Mack has re-evaluated his process?

I don’t think he is seriously considering redshirting Ash, but I thought it was interesting he would address this issue now.

DR,

You started the insults, I just responded in kind. You continue the insults in your latest response.

Don’t pretend that you know what percentage of snaps Ash got in practice. Again, Ash redshirting does not mean they would drop the running package QB plays.

Mack was quite clear that he has not decided on redshirting Ash. You didn’t even see the press conference, right (admit it)? I bring Mack’s comment up because it is interesting and surprising and many horn fans (such as yourself) did not see the today’s press conference. Just because Mack is political doesn’t mean that everything he says is a lie. I will even go so far as to say that Mack tells the truth more than he lies.

It might be that there isn’t that much separation between Connor Wood and Ash as the running QB and that if Wood does not transfer, he might be a fine runiing package QB. Like the vast majority of true frosh QBs, Ash would certainly benefit from the redshirt year. Personally I think Ash plays because, among other things, he is a triple threat as a mid field punter and the horns need every edge they can get.

jerryw – that wouldn’t surprise me. Give GG a couple of games to show whether he can do it alone, and if GG doesn’t blow everyone’s socks off then put in Ash a couple games down the road so Stoops doesn’t have much tape on him. If that’s the plan, then technically Ash might redshirt – but only if GG is so unstoppable that we don’t need the extra wrinkle in the game film. Personally (ahem) I doubt that will be the case. Redshirt Ash and GG, Case, Ash and Brewer are all one year apart, which isn’t really an ideal situation for anyone not named Mike Leach. But the possibility could be there, I guess.

Please help me understand the Taylor Bible situation,

One of our main concerns on defense is our ability to stop the run, highlighted by our poor 2nd DT play, (question 1) what are we asking our 2nd DT to do? It’s my understanding that we’re asking him to basically eat up blocks & take on double teams to keep our lbs & kheeston clean & free to make plays…as I understand it none of our DTs have been able to do a great job at this so we’ve resorted to rotating guys in. Its also my understanding that we want Taylor to get in shape & play with more intensity (play every down), I get we want the kid to be the next great DT we all thought we were getting & I get if your not in shape it affects every part of your performance (ex Albert haynesworth) but (question 2) isn’t it the coaches job to get the most out of what he has & say ok, he may never be what he’s capable of but this is what we got, a big body who’s hard to move or takes up space that every now & then shows a flash (this idea coming from reports I’ve read, if incorrect please point out). Since we’re already rotating guys in & aren’t overly impressed with anyone’s ability to really step up & be the man next to kheeston, why aren’t we giving bible more pt, he didn’t even make the DC?

Why should we? Well 1) it plays him into shape, 2) it keeps our lbs free to make plays improving our run d, almost like a Terrance Cody 3) every now & then he can show the flash of the player we want 4) some kids are just gamers, they have the Allen iverson approach to practice but you can’t stop them in a game…(that’s what I felt about him after seeing the UA game his senior year)

I could be completely wrong about him so that’s why I’m asking those in the know, maybe you’ve already addressed this but what is the message to bible? I’m not saying the kid should start but aren’t we hurting ourselves by not playing him at all?

Thanks & keep up the good work.

Last year Mack stated that he admired Mike Leach’s ability to have multiple QB’s prepared to actually play. Mack pointedly contrasted that to the horns’ inability (in recent years) to have a backup QB ready when the starting QB goes down.

Kafka: You should know Mack better by now.

If Bible was capable at doing those things, he would be on the two deep. Just because you are as fat as Terrance Cody doesn’t mean you can do the same things on the football field. The fact that the kid got that fat in the first place is the sad part. He was incredible on film at 280 his jr year.

Want to clarify, Typsy?

Typsy: Mack would have given his left nut to have backup QB prepared to go when Colt went down in the MNC game vs Bama. Mack hates a QB controversy but he knows it is great to have a backup QB ready when the starter goes down.

Kafka or, as DR said, Mack may be obfuscating, just as he probably was when he said the QB competition was wide open, most likely to pressure Gilbert and keep a fire built under his ass. I doubt there are many on this site who didn’t really believe Gilbert would be the starter against Rice. I’m not saying that it’s the wrong move at all. In fact, I think it’s the best option out of the gate. But Mack also said that McCoy didn’t get in against KSU because he didn’t have time to warm up. In other words, he’s been known to outright lie to the media.

You essentially disputed my reasoning about why I thought Ash play would based on what Mack said at the presser. You may be right but, given his history, I’m going to believe Ash is redshirting when it’s officially announced. The creating of separation you refer to is, IMO, far more critical between Brewer and Ash than between Ash and the other two understudies we have right now. Redshirting Ash has the opposite effect of putting less distance between Ash and Connor; hence my belief that he will play and play often. Of course, we’ll see soon enough. At the end of the day, the guy who takes the first snap in our bowl game, and not necessarily in the Rice game, absolutely must be the best available irrespective of any other thing if we are to get to where we need to be.

Kafka, at what point did Mack make the comment about Leach? If it wa after the season, I can sort of see the point. If before, then his actions, especially in last year’s KSU game, speak louder than his words.

Also, Leach had some QB’s who stepped in without any meaningful game experience and put up gawdy stats and he often left his first stringer in the game trying to throw TD passes while beating teams 52-0 so his success may had more to do with having a great scheme and better teaching than playing time.

he knows it is great to have a backup QB ready when the starter goes down.

And yet, apparently he does not know that the way to prepare a backup QB is to give him PT, with the real plays, with the 1’s, in situations where failure has consequences (albeit not fatal ones) and not just handing off to third string RB’s with a 42-point lead and three minutes to play. I can’t recall the last time a b-u QB got such preparation… maybe Snead vs KSU, but (a) that was because Colt went down and (b) it didn’t carry over to the next week. If that situation had been handled better, we might have had a decent chance against ‘Bama a couple years later with Snead coming in… oh, well… maybe it’s better now. We’ll know pretty quick, yeah?

I think they will Redshirt Ash, If GG plays well or Case plays well it is to the Teams benefit to redshirt him, also Ash’s benefit. We have a QB out of Arizona coming in Next year that may have looked good because of suspect competition, no reason we should ever have to start a season with inexperenced QB again. Wood is not out of this deal yet, watch and see.

Jake: good stuff.

I understand that Mack sometimes lies but the truth is an option. My intent on discussing Mack’s statement that he had not decided to redshirt Ash was to focus on why Mack would say that. Is Mack telling the truth? If he is lying, why bother (there is no need for Mack to pretend anything about Ash redshirting in the Rice game)? If he is telling the truth (which I think he probably is in this case), why the big change in direction from what Jesus reported? What bit of information is Mack waiting on to make his decision? The most obvious unknown is whether Connor transfers or not. Is there anything else Mack needs to make his decision?

My guess is that Connor transfers and Ash plays. I wonder whether Mack is trying to influence Connor to stay. If Mack said Ash is going to certainly play vs Rice, that would encourage Connor to leave. By leaving the door open about Ash redshirting, that provides incentive for Connor to stay.

The decision to redshirt Ash is much more about how much he would benefit the horns by playing him this year (significantly, I think) vs how much Ash benefits from having a redshirt year (again, significantly). If Connor Wood stays, they have 4 adequate QBs so it would be easy to redshirt Ash. If Connor splits, then Ash will probably play vs Rice. If Connor stays, the horns can afford to redshirt Ash if Connor is OK as the running package QB.

I don’t think having QBs separated by a year is bad because it means you always have somebody ready to go. It isn’t like Connor Brewer (or Ash, for that matter) is Vince. Let them compete.

“success may had more to do with having a great scheme and better teaching than playing time.”

Certainly Leach’s scheme and teaching ability really facilitated getting QB’s ready to play. I read where Leach’s scheme was actually quite simple so it was pretty simple to teach.

Typsy: Mack would have given his left nut to have backup QB prepared to go when Colt went down in the MNC game vs Bama. Mack hates a QB controversy but he knows it is great to have a backup QB ready when the starter goes down.

I don’t care what Mack says (in a press conference), they would not have given Ash nearly as much meaningful practice time if they thought they had a redshirt year to work with him.

Plus all the attention he got jibes with what JS reported long ago, that he would have his own mini playbook.

You seem to be buying the snake oil when I thought most consistent readers of this site were long past that.

As Dagga points out, Mack has nothing to gain by stating if Ash will or won’t redshirt.

Right Kafka,

Idk Bible or anything like that & I realize that these issues with him are of deep concern, but with that being said, & I realize we haven’t played a game yet, there are concerns about a repeat of last season when it comes to run d, I’m not even suggesting that bible be in the 2deep, but we’ve already conceded, according to practice reports, that we will use waves of guys at that 2nd DT spot. So maybe I will just have to wait & see but I was looking for some clarity to Scipio Tex’s comment as to what is the message to Taylor & what does it do for our run d while were waiting for him to receive it… But thanks

Kafka – how does your “Mack wants a good backup” theory support the notion that Ash might redshirt? Those dots don’t connect.

And Tipsy correct me if I’m wrong – but “Kafka, you should know Mack better by now” means that you shouldn’t read too much into his press conferences.

And Kafka, you’re right – I didn’t watch the press conference. Because I learned many years ago that Mack Brown press conferences are the easiest way to get fooled about the state of the team. That’s not because Mack is an evil liar; what I’m talking about is part of his job description and one of his top CEO skills. He’s the consummate politician and has a sixth sense for what questions might cause problems if truthfully answered. And there are plenty of reasons for Mack to avoid any solid public footing on the QB question right now – possible transfers, player confidence, stoking competitiveness, etc.

To wit, I never said Mack lied. I said he’s playing politics. There may indeed be some non-zero chance that Ash redshirts – say, if GG plays like Andrew Luck starting with the 1st Q against Rice, or if Connor sticks around and starts blowing up in practice.

But if that redshirt chance is remotely significant, then either (a) the Asset and the Big Cigar and LTAlums’ source and 247’s source are ALL lying out their asses or (b) the staff has wasted a TON of crucial fall practice time.

Or © Mack is blowing smoke, for one of many good reasons.

Do you see why I call any choice of (a) or (b) “willfully dumb”? I’m not trying to get personal. It’s just nonsensically contrarian to come in here and make that argument.

Case McCoy will play. If he controls the game anything like his brother he will be tough to get off the field. Remember Colts arm was considered weak early on, thats the only reason he was drafted so late into the NFL. Accurate throws win games period.

Kafka, after reading your last post, we aren’t that far apart. I would only say that if Ash is as potentially good as has been reported, it would be folly to RS him unless Gilbert has a studly year. Even then, if Ash is truly second best, we still shoudn’t, IMO. Your own philosophy (which I share) regarding well prepared backups would be better served with Ash having played this year. Injuries, after all, can occur in Fall camp or in the first game next year and if Gilbert goes down an experienced Ash would be a much better option. Also, if Brewer and Harsin’s relationship is what it has been said to be and he steps on campus having played in it for three years, you can argue that the program will be better off with him having a chance to be a three year starter rather than a two year starter, early departures notwithstanding. Of course we all hope that David Ash will be good enough to be in the NFL after his junior year. At least I do.

Case’s arm makes Colt’s look like Elway in his prime. His head and his heart are his calling cards… not his footwork or his arm. Hell, even Applewhite’s arm was better than Case’s. Not to bag on the kid, but he would not be here, or be second on the d-chart, if his last name was Smith… and it’s pretty obvious IMO.

Typsy,

“Plus all the attention he got jibes with what JS reported long ago, that he would have his own mini playbook.”

The mini playbook is for the running package QB, whoever that turns out to be (most likely Ash).

Some of yall better look at the QB depth chart again, it is GG then McCoy OR Wood. Ash will redshirt. Too good of a player not to. VY red shirted, Colt red shirted.

Monty, if they thought so much of McCoy the Younger why did they burn his shirt for two or three meaningless snaps and then he didn’t see the field again? Yeah, I’ve heard all about the deal with GG’s physhe but if the coaches, even last year, had thought Case was anything like his brother, they would have played him. Hell, he’d already blown a year and God knows they had opportunities. It just goes against the grain of common sense, even in the clusterfuck clinic that Mack and Co. conducted last year, to completely waste a player that they really thought highly of in that fashion.

I’ll admit that I am in the camp that says if his name was Chase Jones, he’d be suited up for Franchione at TSU this fall, so there is that. Oh, and the pics of his older brother and him at this stage are not comparable physically.

Well…. maybe not Elway’s arm… but my point still stands.

Jake , i saw them both play in high school. Nobody has seen Case play in college.

Love seeing Cochran there! I have been trying to tell everyone this guy was going to be special when that upper body develops. Once again, legs and ass, tells the story with this guy! The guy has done a lot of board work and keeps those legs apart. JS, please let me know if he has added any bulk to his upper body.

College Practices, college scrimmages, 2010 Texas games, and summer college 7v7’s don’t count? Plenty of people have seen plenty of Case over the past year and half to form opinions. Don’t confuse objectivity for contrarianism.

Monty – you should look at the depth chart again. It’s GG, then McCoy, then Ash OR Wood. Not that it disrupts the point you’re making, but you probably shouldn’t tell people to get it right while you’re getting it wrong.

As far as Ash redshirting, I think I’ve written enough on that today.

As far as Case goes, I hope you’re right. Harsin may be able to work around (and eventually improve) whatever arm strength issues Case has.

But as far as who “should” start, I’ve been saying all along that it should be won on gameday. Let them all get playing time and then adjust as warranted. But I’d also understand if the coaches wanted to limit practice snaps to those most likely to play. I’m just not sure if it’s clear yet who would play the best.

Jake,

Yeah, I definitely differentiate between what I would do and what Mack might do. I partially like Ash because he is an awesome punter (1st team all state Texas) and would really put a lot of pressure on the D when he is punting because they could not sell out to defend the punt. Given that Tucker is both the place kicker and punter, I would prefer to diversify and use Ash as the punter because it will reduce the stress on Tucker and make a huge difference when the horns punt. Since Mack was 5 and 7 last year, they need every edge they can get. So I would not redshirt him. If he is the best running QB and I am already burning his redshirt, I would also use him as my running package QB. Given that he is the running package QB, I would also make him the backup QB because I can give more practice reps and game snaps. I would not OR the 3 and 4 QBs on the depth chart so it was very clear to the 4th string guy where he stood (in case he wants to transfer this semester).

Having said all that, it is widely reported that Connor is in Colorado. If/when Connor transfers, there will be no question about Ash redshirting.

DR,

This exchange between you and I is painfully boring/tedious. Could we stop? It’s not you, it’s me.

thanks, Kafka

Alex Zumberge is going to blow up this year.

Dagga Rooster, i may have miss read the depth chart or maybe not, the OR is beside the Wood Name on bottom. a bar is between McCoy and Ash. Looking at the rest of the depth chart in other positions they are not devided that way. I guess we will see if he plays or red shirts. Here is the deal on Case, Does he have his brothers Heart? thats the big question. He does have his brothers talent, potentially. JAKE ,As far as Case size goes he is bigger than Colt was at this age. they should have red shirted him [Case], Mack said as much, Colt was a 175 pound true freshman that got redshirted, as a redshirt starter he had gain 15 pounds or so, Colt is only 6’1 Case is a true 6’2 . Based on Colts past performance we dont even have a QB on this team right now.

I actually stopped hours ago. And yes, it’s you. My last comment to you was pretty damn even-handed and this is what I get (sniff).

Oh and I hope you don’t mind but I’m dating your sister now.

put a lot of pressure on the D when he is punting because they could not sell out to defend the punt

Especially if he learns ruggerpunting (i.e., on the run)… that, and I still hope to see a quick-kick again… some day… there’s something inspiring about seeing a 65-yard punt (30 in the air, 35 rolling) over the heads of the safeties on 3rd and forever… hey, don’t laugh, it could happen.

(last comment for Kafka, sorry)

Monty – yeah, reading these things is kind of like marking a butterfly ballot. And I have a lot of the same questions and hopes you do. I’d really like to see Case on game day just to see if he can prove the doubters wrong.

Dagga Rooster, look one more time at the depth chart link, look at right guard, then look at tailback, then look at the QB position. look at how the divider marks and OR are positioned. maybe im wrong, maybe not.

a bar is between McCoy and Ash

Summa them computer nerdy types use the “bar” to mean “OR”. If it was an ordinal separator, it’d prolly been between GG and McCoy, too, yeah?

I’m dating your sister now.

Good call – Moms get kinda needy once you give ‘em a taste of Doc Roosta’s Patented Root Oil, don’t they?

I take it that “Buck” comes from Jason Buck?

So, for all the talk about the new Harsin exciting offense, the Ash package, the Malcolm Brown tremendousness, etc etc etc, its still Mack at the helm. Which means we get The Squinter at starting QB no matter how he actually plays [ESPN rightfully points out that he got the nod because he is the oldest], and MB will likely get to carry the ball 2 times in the fourth quarter. All the crap about Mack ‘changing’ is the same crap we hear every single year.

oh well , we will know by Oklahoma who they players are on this team, no more waiting until after that game to play kids that can play, if i read Harsin right.

Just to clarify, here’s how I’m reading the chart – basically read the whole first line then the whole second line. Putting it all on the same line would make it a lot easier to read.

By this method the QB chart reads: "

7 Garrett Gilbert | 6 Case McCoy | 14 David Ash OR 5 Connor Wood

And the TB position reads

2 Fozzy Whittaker | 24 Joe Bergeron OR 28 Malcolm Brown | 26 D.J. Monroe

And in these two cases I’d take both positions to basically read starter – backup/rotation guy(s) – specialty package guys.

They don’t need Ash for the Rice game. They do need to evaluate GG and Case in a game situation. If GG tears ‘em up in the first few games Ash’s redshirt chances might rise. But the most likely scenario is that Ash’s special packages start to show up well before the OU game. They will at very least need him as a punter and as a change of pace from GG. Ash can benefit from being on the sidelines for a game or two getting use to the crowd, play calls etc. He will play when he is needed and hopefully he will be ready. I think he may make GG into the next Wally Pipp.

Tex Long – I’d call it “seed oil”, but yeah totally.

For those commenting on the fact that Cochran is listed #2 at LT — there are several other O linemen who will see the field before him, so not to worry. Kelley would be the first OT off the bench. But that doesn’t mean Kelley would necessarily be the first O lineman into the game if one of the tackles gets hurt. It’s just my guess, but I think we’d see Ashcraft enter the game and Walters slide out to RT if Hopkins gets dinged. If it’s Allen who gets dinged, Ashcraft comes in, Walters slides to RT, and Hopkins flops over to LT.

I just think Ashcraft is a little ahead of Kelley on Searels’ pecking order based on what I’ve been reading here and elsewhere. The fact that Walters can play RT and Hopkins can play both sides gives Searels some position flexibility.

Mack’s PCs: Profoundly state the obvious and dodge everything else. He is very good at this.

CalHorn: That’s exactly the substitution pattern I see. Scary that someone else sees this the way my warped mind does. (I’d add I think Snow slides to center, if that becomes necessary, and Ashcraft becomes the left guard).

I think some of the second-team names are written in pencil, lightly, with the eraser at the ready. Staff had a lot to do, a short time to do it, and you get your starting unit set and then — as in practices throughout September — sort out what else might be there, who can help or who you need now.

As to redshirting, if the freshman forces the staff to play him, goodbye RS (this means Diggs, Ship, Ash, Des Jackson, Edmond, MThompson and, it appears, a half-dozen others. Bravo.). If the freshman remains on the third unit, or there’s a way to shuffles bodies around to fill a hole, then redshirting becomes an option.

I think this is one of the things that led to 5-7 . . . I believe the old staff made some of its redshirt decisions around June, and it was gonna take three Acts of God to change their minds (forget what the kid did on the practice field). How else, for example, do you explain redshirting Earl Thomas in 2007 when our safeties were (1) average, and (2) battered; but still, ET ’shirted. The next spring, he was the best DB in the program.

I just like that we name our starting gunners.

I know we really don’t have a strong safety per se, but Gideon really is a SS in a FS’s body.

Gilbert has a shot at redemption and to shut up nay-sayers like myself. I hope he does it.

You perverts. Quit talking about that young man’s special package. You sound like you should be at ND or BC. Damn.

Your probably right Dagga Rosta on the depth chart. Some are saying Wood may be out of here soon. I know some of these guys are thinking Ash gets to play this year, i figure if he does it will be because the coaches think he is very special and cant win without him. The last part of my comment would not be good. As much as i would like to see him, a year red shirting, learning Harsins system to perfection would be good. It would be a good cooling off period from all the hype he has been getting. I sometimes wonder if GG would be much better right now had Sharrod Harris been handed the starting job, allowing GG to get up to game speed on his coverage reads and touch on the ball. Running the scout team for a year has its benefits.

does it scare anyone else that all the players today in the press conference mentioned that GG had the upper hand partly because he’s older? They said he had confidence and had been consistent as well but it seems that if he was the for sure go to guy, they wouldn’t need to mention that he had an advantage because he was older. he would’ve had the advantage because he’s the best qb on the team no matter what age he was. maybe im reading too much into it.

The talk about getting real game snaps for the backup comes up every year.

Can someone give me an example of a team that was in the national championship hunt in the last 5 years that gave their backup QB snaps when the game was on the line? Or even let their backup QB run the entire playbook when they were up late in a game? I honestly can’t think of one. No coach of a team of that caliber is going to risk a close game by giving the backup minutes, and every one of them is going to try to shorten the game as much as possible to limit the risk of injuries. It is just the nature of the college game.

The “Gunners” for OU is an off-the- field term.

Horncasting —

Florida. (Leak and Tebow)

P.S. to Horncasting —

Forgot to mention that the response of Florida was in connection with your first question. As to the second question, Tebow didn’t run the entire playbook that year, obviously.

Tebow was clearly a change-of -pace QB with a style much different than Leak. But Jebus was the backup QB and did take all kinds of snaps when the game was on the line, including the NC game.

Horncasting – methinks you forgot Tim Tebow.

I think you’re typically right, incidentally, but in some cases it might depend on the relative quality and skill sets of the starter and backup. We might be in that situation now.

Also: the primary benefit of an Ash package would be forcing Stoops, Gundy and Sherman to use precious time during game week to prepare for it. How much we would actually run it during those games is an open question, and I’d bet that’s just how HarsinWhite likes it.

edsp —

Warped minds think alike!

Blatantly, Rice is no, A&M, O-state or OU caliber team. Why use up all the good skill set and players when you dont have to because of your opponent’s caliber (or lack of) and possibly risk injury or burning a shirt if you dont need to, getting the new guys on film for the next opponent’s game/film research etc… why show all your cards now? But then again, playing against Rice is a true valuable live practice situation that the Harsinwhite experiment can utilize to try out the plays/practice packages (new offense)….LIVE, no orchestration, no BS. To further the point, GG may have gotten the nod to see if he has “it” now. If so, they may be also doing this to give himself enough rope to bungee off rank in the depth chart as the games progress. For CEO’s in the public eye, the best information for competition is…. disinformation. Tell them nothing or just a bit of something that can be…well…just about anything. As for depth charts, those can change anytime, and just because there is a depth chart, it doesn’t mean it will be followed 100%.

- Burnt Orange til the casket drops…

something else that surprised me that i forgot to mention. sorry if this has been ’cussed.

i didn’t expect to see jackson backing up randall at the nose. i thought jackson was expected to complement randall, not back him up.

???

The great part is, come Saturday night, none of us will have to argue about Mack’s true intentions. We’ll see for ourselves. Now, where’s the damn tailgate?

yeh – I was wondering the same thing. Guessing that they’re counting on Randall for interior pass rush in the starting lineup, so they’ll probably need Jackson in there when Randall is off the field. They can always pair the two on obvious passing downs as well.

agree, dagga. that would make sense. probably what doesn’t make sense is us obsessing over a depth chart that is more formality than fact.

"if i needed new testament as to his value, there it is right there."

hah. just saw that. i missed the boat on that.

another thing. i heard part of ketch’s radio show yesterday when he was talking about the press conference. he was mostly complimentary except a few things like the length of the event A N D mack’s handling of the questions regarding the qb competition, where he was highly indignant at mack’s deferring questions to his coordinators. i mean indignant. i mean think a bald nancy grace indignant. [is there any more disgusting thought than channeling nancy grace, bald or not? or grooving or reaming or otherwise parting with an instrument? yuck.] anyway ketch went on an on about it, his voice gaining in octave and forte with each pass, and i’m sittin’ there wondering, ‘hey, wasn’t it we wanted mack to pass the whole qb situation to the coordinators? if he did that, doesn’t it make some sense that they should be answering the questions about that? i don’t get it, nancy.

don’t want it, either.

yeah, or rabbet? would you rabbet a bald nancy grace?

is there any more disgusting thought than channeling nancy grace, bald or not?

May be. That would depend on who the fuck is Nancy Grace? I don’t view “broadcast” viddy, so I’m assuming she’s a Talking Head of some sort, Party of the First Part type? Spray-on or industrial adhesive coiffure? Is not having even latent awareness of such persons a Good Thing or a Bad thing? I’m thinking Good Thing, particularly if channeling, rabbeting, or otherwise creating some sort of indentation (dent? teeth? …shudders…) is not seen by others as inducing pleasure in the self.

Back to the point, though… the MackAnswer under discussion seemed to me to be a Good Thing. I agree, having Mack defer to the team and position coaches is exactly what we want, and I applaud it – assuming that it’s real and not a MackPloy.

Calhorn/Dagga – The Tebow situation is completely different than “getting a backup QB ready”. He was running specific packages, primarily short yardage/goal-line stuff. This is more analoguous to what we are thinking will happen with Ash this year (or the abortion that was the Chiles package a couple years ago), than what everyone was bitching about with getting Snead/Gilbert/McCoy ready in case of an injury.

PS – I know both of you basically said this same thing, but felt like making the point one more time. I think the point still stands that development of the backup QB’s under Mack isn’t any different than his peers.

oh, lord. when i still had access to tv in the hotel where i was staying, i fairly often turned the boobtube on when i went to bed and checked several places to see what was going on. in particular i wanted to check on the trial of that florida woman, and the nancy grace news hour program was a common hit. i don’t want to describe her as lunch is imminent. but suffice it to say that thinking of her at mealtime is a good diet-aphrodisiac, if such exists.

i concur heartily with your opinion regarding mack’s behavior, texel. it’s just about what i would have asked for. i want him to run this show but let his firecracker assistants handle the details.

i want him to run this show but let his firecracker assistants handle the details.

“Paden, you stand right over there, behind Coach Brown. If he starts talking about the fake field goal, or says anything about getting some Senior Leaders back on the field, just pick him up, take him to the end of the bench, and sit him down between you and Greenlea. Don’t let him up ’til I give you the Nod, got it?”

access to tv in the hotel

I noticed they have those in hotels and motels. But, I got some of these things – you might remember them – called books, and I do a pretty good job of ignoring the tv sets… although I do like to check and see if they have a Classic XXX Channel, just in case “Big-Butt Biker Mamas from Hell” is playing – can’t beat the Golden Oldies.

when i last watched tv on a regular basis, saturday night started off with bob newhart who was followed by mary tyler moore, and then carol burnett knocked what was left of the ball out of the park. i understand that the technology has changed and that the big deal these days is screens as big as small cars. in fact, one of ‘em is called a ’fiat screen’, i think.

Horncasting —

One could also make a case for the ’07 LSU team (which won the NC in 1/08), which had Matt Flynn as the starting QB. Perrilloux saw a lot of action as the backup QB that year, even when Flynn was healthy.

In general, though, I don’t disagree with you. While I do think Mack tends to leave his starting QB in too long when games are well in hand, I also think he gets a little too much heat on the issue of developing his backup QBs.