Mondays In the Humidor: The Cigar on The Ash Package and More

Oh sweet Jesus yes! It’s here!!!

Num, num, num, num…. Thanks for the lunch time read Heysus.

Jesus, I think I saw you Saturday. Were you wearing a blue shirt?

Good stuff JS.

excellent….thank you!

Always interesting. I think the University of Texas goes independent in football and parks all other sports in something crazy, like the Big East.

Best way to start the week, thanks JS. Btw, where is the BC-’Cosm tailgate located? Gonna try to possibly hunt it down this weekend.

Thanks again JS!!
Some good points. I hope he is right about the DL and its only something that needs to be tightend up.
As someone who is very intrigued by realignment, i am a bit surprised that we would go Independent. I was hoping to join a conf (Pac or Acc) but we shall see what happens.

Ill be at the Byu game also and would love to stop by the tailgait!

Great coverage, JS. Between this and the Post-Mortems, my work productivity this morning is seriously suffering.

Fantastic stuff.

Shuttlesworth obviously suffering from multiple personality disorder. Hilarious to see him pawn off his rumors about stuff as an actual “Big Cigar” type source.

What did Big Cigar say about Notre Dame joining the Big XII, as it was a foregone conclusion the last time you and Biggy Cigar talked?

Good stuff Jesus. I really like how the staff is working Ash into the mix, and am happy to hear that Snow got a talkin’ to.

Calm yourself, TTR. What he reported was legitimate speculation, he never characterized it as a “foregone conclusion”. Do Aggies have to lie to make their point?
And I don’t think you know BC well enough to give him a bedroom nickname.

As I was watching my illegal internt stream of the game ( thanks for the info, fellow felons ) I was amused at the game announcers who went nuts when Ash came into the game. They were speculating all sorts of wild scenarios as to why his shirt was pulled. When he went out shortly, they were beside themselves. Honestly, guys. If your going to announce the games, go to BC and read what the Big Cigar is saying. You’ll come across as so much more knowledgable

I never thought I’d have to thank OU for something, but based on BC’s realignment take, I think I’m forced to. So I’ll say something I feel like I’ve been repeating ad nauseum: The Big XII as a 9 or 10 team league is NOT sustainable, because even though it works for UT and OU, it doesn’t work for anybody else. If dumb-a** Aggy can figure that out, why can’t we?

Every other conference is looking to expand, because the new model is a grow-your-footprint model. The Big XII is the only league that seems to think it can make a less-is-more approach work, and based on the past few months, that’s not working out. I hated this deal last year, and I hate it even more now. Sure, Texas and OU will make their money, but everyone else gets peanuts and promises. As B1G/SEC/Pac X look to expand further, they’ll just pick off quietly enfuriated programs from underneath us.

If Notre Dame wants to walk in this particular door, that’s fine, and I’ll retract my previous comments. But I don’t think they’re coming, and I don’t see anybody else out there that can save this conference. Am I totally wrong?

great report. much thanks.

you, the big smoko, the asset, and the staff at bc/cosm are deserving of the highest accolades. you guys nailed this one dead center.

coordinators more autonomy: best three words in a report laced with good words. there are still a number of people crying that mack is hamstringing everybody, but i see no justification for that view, and this word from cohiba pretty much puts that whole thing to bed. now, if we can just put those naysayers to bed.

too many good things to comment on them, but i do want to mention david ash. i really, really like the way they are bringing him up to speed. i’d say he’s in second gear right now and accelerating rapidly. that’s no time to stuff him in sixth gear and mash the throttle. no sensible car would make you shift from first to fourth, which means my old ’vette was not a sensible car — but i knew that. harsin makes somewhat more sense.

So if Texas goes Indy, you’d be more likely to keep the RRS & T-day games as you’ll need Strength O’ Schedule issues otherwise, no? Any thoughts on Colin Blake to A&M? I know Mack didn’t offer…..

Here’s what the Cigar said about what to look for wrt to ou. This was from 8/23 and pretty dead on.

"But OU has been a solid ally through all of this?"

Yes, and the main reason is Joe Castiglione. He’s been in talks with DeLoss about the direction of the conference every step of the way and it’s the main reason OU hasn’t looked seriously at their SEC option. The problem is the Longhorn Network has made JC look weak to the powers in the OU program including University President David Boren and Bob Stoops. Stoops and JC’s relationship was already a bit stressed due to annual contract renegotiations, and the Longhorn Network may be the straw that forces Boren to give JC his walking papers. If that happens, UT loses an important connection to OU and the SEC might become more attractive to the Sooners overnight. The Cigar says to keep your ear to the ground for noise out of Norman.

PAC10 is a bad idea on the face of it. Nevermind the LHN. Same for independent as the impact on other sports and even football scheduling becomes too difficult.

What the UT President and Dodds apparently want is the best of all available options and that is a viable mid-continent conference made up of college town universities. There is still hope.

Thanks, interesting stuff.
 
I’ll take the under on Ash’s passing attempts against BYU, but I’ll take the over on total snaps played.

55 Years, I can’t speak for anyone else, but I would enjoy your take on why PAC would be a bad move for Texas. Actually, let me rephrase that; tell me why you think there is such a thing as a viable mid-continent conference?

I think there COULD have been such an entity, but my take is that the minute there were rumblings from NU/Mizz, the Big XII as a whole should have looked for expansion possibilities above and beyond 12 teams. Because if everyone else is going 14-16, you’re going to be behind. And that’s what makes it unsustainable from my point of view. Sure, Texas and OU will be fine in an 8, 9, 10, 12, or whatever league. But if it isn’t sustainable for the other 7 or 8 programs, that it really doesn’t matter how happy Texas is.

As I said last week, we can love the LHN all we want but at the end of the day if OU/OSU leave and the super conferences start to form up (which they will). We will not be able to remain independent.

The ACC may end up being our only hope of getting our way and keeping the LHN all to ourselves.

Excellent, as usual. You guys are so far beyond the claptrap put out by the Austin American reporters it is unbelievable. Everything you’ve posted has been on the money. They don’t even know where the billfold is.

I am no football expert but my eyes are good. It seems like GG would drive down the field to the red zone and go ineffectual. Harsin started sending in the wildcat and field goals turned into touchdowns. Was I seeing straight? Other problem that bugs me is the low throws. I don’t want to see a receiver hurt because he is in a poor position trying to catch a low ball and get hit and injured. Is that worry justified?

God I love these reports.

Texas as a football independent with most games on the LHN is the most likely option at this point.

Learn to embrace future schedules like the following:

Rice
Arkansas
UTSA
UCLA
OU
Texas Tech
Houston
Notre Dame
Navy
BYU
Baylor
A&M

Hmm, interesting, I was convinced that UT asked OU to take more of a lead in destroying the conference.

I would think its in OU’s best interest (as it is in ours) to stick together.

I guess the LHN really has made them look stupid.

Thanks again BC and JS. You guys have helped make this season even more enjoyable. As far as alignment goes I don’t think that even Dodds knows for sure what is going to happen so i can’t believe Aggies would come over here to criticize that BC can’t give absolute answers to the future. I appreciate the hell out of this website.

I don’t think the Pac 10+X is going to allow the LHN as it is currently setup. Not sure if I really buy that the best long term prospects for Texas are as an independant. I think the big disconnect is that pretty much every other large school in the country is seeking conference stability over their own self interests, accept Texas. Texas wants to leverage its brand and no one can argue that position at face value – however, everyone who routinely deals with Texas is tired of eating the same old shit sandwich and thus the chips are not currently falling the way you want. You think A&M is loco for wanting to duke it out in the rough and tumble $EC. At least everyone is treated equally in the SEC and you don’t have schools fighting to get a larger slice of the pie. Be careful what you wish for, ’cause you just might get it.

Texan Nick, you are wrong. You’re thinking within a box. Try thinking like Dodds does. If UT, OU, and ND can be the parent schools of a 5th superconference… Why wouldn’t the Irish be interested? Especially if they can help to set parameters that benefit them (the haves) and inhibit the have-nots (everyone else in the conference other than UT and OU). There are other formulas for conference success other than what the SEC has created (using collusion and cheating to create a conference of multiple highly competitive teams hoping that the NC representative will outlast the murderers row of games and thoroughly destroy their lesser tested foes). Creating a conference of teams of middling competetion that enables your team to attain a favorable SOS rating while putting them in the NC hunt without enduring murderers row, is just as successful. Dodds and others are mindful of this. And there is ABSOLUTELY no way that a 5th 16-team superconference with OU, UT, and ND as the headliners would be left out of the NC discussion.

Big Cigar,
Why not Texas to the ACC? Closer to your potential supply of Cuban cigars to replenish the Humidor. Only a 1 hour time zone change for away games. Let the Sooners go west, like they did during the Grapes of Wrath- A&M to the SEC for annual punishment. Texas could play an annual out of conference game against a PAC ? team, a Big 10 team and Rice or SMU. Won’t the Horns have more power this way- keep the Longhorn Network- stop playing the Sooners and the Aggies annually and create a more national geographical profile.
Notre Dame alternating with Big Ten team each year
PAC ? Team each year
Rice or SMU or TCU or U of H each year
Wild card game- old traditions game- Arkansas or a&m or Oklahoma- alternating
ACC schedule

I would like the blessings of JS on this one!
I live in the west- go east Longhorns
Conference separation from OU and a& m + Longhorn Network is the call

wanted to mention one more thing.

gilbert regressing makes absolute sense. one tends to regress in stressful situations, and the first game after that nightmare season is going to be stressful. we need to hope they can get him out of that quickly so we all can see what they were seeing. it is doable, and i have faith in our staff pulling it off.

anecdote. when i was in basic training for the army, i realized one day in the mess hall that i was prioritizing the items on my tray and eating them in that order. that’s the way i ate when i was little, and i had totally forgotten that i ever ate that way. i realized that under the pressure of the situation i was regressing. creepy feeling.

Disappointing if true that back door connections that had kept OU allied may be breaking down. Hope ACC talk is posturing. FB only indy status is intriguing. A&M ought to review tertiary rights policy in SEC if LHN bothers them. Excited to see Ash involvement ramp up and at all the actual coaching/ coordinating going on.

At least everyone is treated equally in the SEC and you don’t have schools fighting to get a larger slice of the pie.

Tier 3 is up for grabs in the SEC. The LHN would fit just fine.

The LHN could exist within the SEC’s current rules.

The great irony is that in 10-15 years, Texas A&M will be in conference with multiple iterations of the LHN.

SEC “equal treatment” tier 3 rights,

University of Alabama $8,444,674.00
University of Kentucky $7,743,327.00
University of Florida $7,450,000.00
Louisiana State University $7,012,730.00
University of Tennessee $6,293,621.00
University of Georgia $6,231,392.00
Auburn University $4,637,605.00
University of South Carolina $1,829,000.00
University of Mississippi $1,658,650.00
University of Arkansas $950,000.00
Mississippi State University $0.00

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/05/06/school-specific-broadcasting-revenue/

kind of wish you hadn’t mentioned re-alignment in this thread, jeese.

Kilgore
“pretty much every other large school in the country is seeking conference stability over their own self interests, accept Texas”
Aggies are doing what they think is in their self-interest. Aggies couldn’t dream of being indy. It’s a Borg thing.
Texas can choose to be indy like ND or BYU have or choose to join a conference. It’s called freedom.

Esquivel,

Add to that that farmer will also be Miss. St.’s bee-yotch, and you pretty much nailed it.

I lean slightly toward agreeing with One Flag/Star/State/School, in that Dodds has been ahead of the curve in all the realignment stuff so far and I have a hard time believing he’s suddenly been had by the likes of aggie and OU. More likely, to me at least, is that he has a plan and he’s quietly moving ahead with it. And I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find out it’s something out-of-the-box – something like a new conference headlined by UT, OU, and ND, and including possibly Mizzou, OSU, TT or others. Why go begging to be the 16th team in an existing conference when you can be the 1st team in a new one?

One Flag: Maybe I missed something, but it sure sounds like OU is more interested in the PAC than in parenting a 5th conference. Supposing you’re right, and they do like this idea, where’s ND on this? If they aren’t interested in joining the B1G, why would they join a conference of “middling competition”? ND takes pride in its independent scheduling and resulting crazy SOS they have every year. At some level, they’d rather be a 9-10 win team beating teams like USC, Michigan, etc, rather than undefeated beating Baylor, Iowa State, etc. I’m not saying they’re right to feel that way, but it is what it is.

And maybe I’m wrong, but PAC X right now sure seems to look like a middling competition conference, so why not hop aboard? I guess my point is this: If you’re right, then we should probably be holding the door open for OU/OSU to head west right now, because that further weakens the conference and gives us an easier path to a national championship. I’m sure the Big XII’s conference partners will be fine paying the same for that.

made a bar bet before the game that we’d see ash. thanks for the easy 20, JS and BC.

Generally speaking, it sounds like the team struggled a bit to take the things they’ve learned the last 6 months and use them in game situations. That is to be expected and I was very encouraged by the improvement throughout the game. The fact that The Cigar mentions that the coaches are aware of this and already using it as a teaching situation is very encouraging.

Did Big Cig mention anything about Paden Kelley playing? Is that foreshadowing for the rest of the year or merely getting players on the field late.

Also curious to hear about Ashton Dorsey’s suspension. Did that affect DL play too? Meaning would he have started over Howell and been expected to help much against the run?

Last, I really hope Big Cig is wrong about conference realignment. It sounds like he knows exactly what is going on though with the way OU’s stance has turned out. I really like the idea of being in the Pac16. If there is no Big12 it makes cultural sense for A&M to go SEC because they are more Southern and for Tech and UT to go Pac because we are more Western. It’s almost like the SWC was a amalgamation of both types of cultures and now each component is being separated out into the Southern and Western portions, again culturally.

Keep the info coming. It’s great.

I love Mondays in the Humidor so much that I don’t even care that they never seem to occur on a Monday!

KilgoreTrout-

A&M fought FOR unequal revenue sharing that benefitted them. That means you were serving up shit sandwiches to Baylor and Iowa State too.

You are just pissed we were far more successful at it.

Interesting comments on the realignment front. The Cigar has been nails and I have been trying to keep what he has said in mind on this when reading between the lines.

I was hoping that Dagga and Nunna were right about OU’s Pac talk as posturing to push the SEC into thinking twice about blowing up the conference by taking A&M, but that never did jibe with what the Cigar was saying. What I find interesting in the latest comments from him is the dearth of Big 12 expansion or fill-in talk. No mention of BYU or ND, so I am guessing that they both either passed or OU didn’t want to stick with BYU as A&M’s replacement.

I wonder what OU does if Texas does go independent. I doubt the Pac-10 takes Tech in that scenario. That really could put a crimp in their Texas recruiting. They have gotten a handful of players out of Cali, but that’s got to be a much harder sell then getting kids in the Metroplex to head north. They will always have a presence here, but the current generation is used to seeing OU in state on many occasions not just the RRS.

I think we should try to take A&M’s spot in the SEC and bring Mizzou along for the ride. We keep the LHN and we can use our billions to pay private investigators to check up on SEC boosters.

JerryW wrote: “Other problem that bugs me is the low throws. I don’t want to see a receiver hurt because he is in a poor position trying to catch a low ball and get hit and injured. Is that worry justified?”

The knee-high passes are one of those little things that drive me crazy about GG too. He had that last year as well. I understand when the low ball has some of that “throw it where only the receiver can catch it” upside. But when it’s a crossing route over the middle or the receiver is coming into space having reach down to make a shin-high catch breaks his momentum or causes him to slide, ending a play that could have gone for more. It’ such a glaring problem that I’m surprised it hasn’t been corrected yet (perhaps they’ve tried). As for the threat of injury, I would think that the low ball is safer than the high ball.

“Be careful what you wish for, cause you might get it.”

Truer words could not have been spoken KT.

We will not and should not concede anything with respect to the LHN. There are a lot of small minds here bitching and moaning from their small houses. I trust in Powers/Dodds. They have earned my trust and they are better equipped to make a decision that is in the long term interest of this fine University and all that are associated with.

So shutty shut and enjoy. You bastards!

All this talk makes me want to light up the Montecristo I’ve been saving

TexanNick,

Where is ND’s supposedly sick schedule? Since 1999 they have played 40 teams that were ranked on the day ND played them during the regular season. During that same time frame Texas has played 42 ranked teams and we get blasted for having too many cupcakes. ND’s numbers are also inflated by playing MSU and Michigan early in the season when they are overrated. If ND keeps USC and Michigan as their OOC games they would get plenty of decent competition in a revised Big 12 and with OU and Texas they would actually have a more difficult schedule…which may be why they haven’t been quick to jump at the offer.

Ricky – if you ever get the impression that something I say doesn’t jibe with the Big Cigar, go with the Cigar. I’m just speculating; he has sources.

Rice
Arkansas
UTSA
UCLA
OU
Texas Tech
Houston
Notre Dame
Navy
BYU
Baylor
A&M

This is fine really and basically not much different from before – lose 1-2, go to BCS bowl, win ’em all & play for it all.

Would like to swap out some of the Texas schools for something further afield, you don’t need 6 in state opponents a year, might as well rotate them, and of course, A&M can suck it, unless of course they want to play on LHN, in which case an exception should really be made. ..

TexanNick, you’re somewhat missing the point. You don’t want to OU to leave. They are part of the triumverate. And the difference between being a part of the middling PacX and being in control of a middling conference of your own making… should be sort of obvious.

Hey, I’d rather go west as well, but Dodds is running this show and he isn’t going to let this belle cow die.

JS,

Were there any thoughts on Marquise Goodwin’s return? How long will it take him to integrate into the offense? Will he start off with packages until he learns more?

II have a feeling ESPN will step in here. People are ignoring that they spent way too much money purchasing the 3rd tier rights and setting up LHN. And they are burning cash trying to get it distributed. They are not going to spend more money trying to rebrand LHN, unless it is absolutely necessary. My prediction? ESPN offers to help OU with their network and the Big 12 expands. ESPN tells OU that they want to set up the LHN first, then apply the model to their network, possibly bundling the two as a package deal. I think this is what OU is trying to do. They win either way. If ESPN comes in and does for them what they did for UT they win. If not, they go to the Pac and win. They can’t lose. And since Larry Scott is not publicly saying they are expanding, like last year, he won’t get screwed at the last minute if the Big 12 stays together and this keeps the Pac option open when the league finally dissolves in 2015.

Yes, the Cigar called me at 2pm or so and said Goodwin was back on the team. I had to re-write this damn thing once the news went public. I haven’t heard how he’ll be used, but Scipio and I chatted about it before the news went public. I’ll let him chime in on how we’ll use Goodwin. If I hear anything else on that front however, I’ll let you know.

To everyone else. Thanks for the words. I’ll try to get to your questions when I get home from work.

I really hope the Big C is wrong on the Pac-16. I think that being part of a quality conference is far more important than the LHN. I think people need to step back and ask themselves why they want all that money. Its so the Longhorns can win titles and beat the best teams. This will get difficult when we are not part of a conference, or we are part of a shitty conference. We should bite the bullet, cut a deal with the Pac-16 turning the LHN into a regional network. I’m not convinced this will be a huge net loss, as we will get more money from the Pac-16 TV contract than the Big 12. Then we can look forward to beating USC in the Rose bowl conference championship game for years to come. I don’t know about you but I love seeing the rose bowl half bathed in Burnt Orange. That is something special. Far more special than= playing whatever half ass teams are left to play when we are not part of a super conference, or replacing the 1 year gym equipment with new stuff because we have nothing else to spend the LHN money on, or proudly boasting how our coach gets paid more than any other in the league. The Longhorns will have enough money to be competitive at the highest level whatever the outcome. We just need to make sure we have some place to compete.

Ricky and One Flag, good points both of you. I’m just wondering, from a big picture standpoint, what is the point of saving Big XII in the context of nationwide realignment. One flag, to your point, we’ve been in control of a middling-to-above-average conference, and it’s falling apart around our ears. Not only that, it’s our “control” that seems to be a real sticking point with both our existing conference partners and potential new ones. Is there a deal you see, even a far-fetched one, that not only preserves the Big XII beyond this year but lays a foundation for continued survival without the drip-drip of constant defection?

Let’s say that OU’s issues are resolved vis-a-vis staying in Big XII for now, whatever form that takes. Jim Delaney, the mysteriously silent 800 pound gorilla in the room, understands that Larry Scott isn’t going away, so he starts a conversation with Mizzou and/or Notre Dame. Aren’t we right back where we started?

I understand the line of thinking that says that as long as UT and OU stay together, they’re going to be fine, and you can basically line up whoever you want with them and make a conference. But if the other programs are getting wooed by the SEC/B1G/PAC, how long are UT and OU really likely to keep playing out of the same bag?

what is the location of the tailgate?

If at the end of this, OU are in the PAC-16, TAMU in the SEC and we play neither but are richer than either I think I’ll give up CFB and watch the NFL. The whole point will be lost. I went to Texas because I wanted to go to a school with great Football tradition. I hope they don’t throw it all away, alumni cannot let this happen.

My actual football question is: What if anything did the Cigar have to say about TE play? it’s notable to me that the last few practice reports noted TE play as “quiet” and/or “unremarkable;” and my postage-stamp pirate stream certainly didn’t make me think TE’s were a major factor; but everything else I’ve read about Harsin’s system is that TE is a critical component. So, did the TE’s play up to the Cigar’s expectations?

On re-alignment, I anxiously await the next billion-dollar-bevo post, but can someone help me understand how sharing with a second school (say, Tech) in a regional framework leaves “billions” on the table? I get the branding loss, but from a pure money perspective this seems to be more even to me, especially if you consider the sharing piece that would inevitably be part of playing an independent schedule on the LHN. It seems to me that if we get to the point where a regional network causes us to “lose” a billion, it’s also making us a billion, in which case I have to ask, who gives a shit?

Pistol,

You probably wept when Texas ended annual games vs. SMU, UoH and Rice, too, in the ‘90s when the SWC ended… UT and OU will always play each other, as they did when they were in separate conferences. Annual game with farmer will be shelved for ~5-10 years, but I’m sure will re-emerge down the road.

Glad you went to Texas because of football tradition; I went there to get a great education.

We’ll be fine.

With all due respect Kilgore, A&M uses that excuse that all the members are treated equally as being important to them, but they can’t honestly believe their own b.s. They are one of the teams that was getting more money than the rest of the conference (KS, KST, TECH, OSU…), so that argument is just silly. In other words, you can’t argue against the unfairness of a situation where you are the one getting the advantage. Plus, as Jerome Solomon put it, are we really supposed to believe that A&M is comprised suddenly of socialists? Please.

Texan Nick, you’re asking some good questions and making some good observations. I guess to answer your questions…

In a superconference world, there won’t be the kinda movement and shifting that we see know. So I guess it won’t matter if some of our lesser conference mates dislike that fact that UT, OU, and ND are running things. For the most part, they’ll just be glad that they have a seat at the NC/BCS table. Do we care that they dislike the current status quo? Are we going to care when their sock’d into a superconfernce and are less able to move? You have to look at this situation thru the eyes of someone like Dodds. He makes moves and decisions based upon what he WANTS. Most of his counterparts are making decisions based upon avoidance of a negative outcome. While DeLoss is making choices based upon what HE WANTS to do, the others are just trying to end-up with the lesser of two evils. As for having to compete with other conference’s for member schools. There should be plenty of members to go around ( 5 X 16 = 80, which is currently more than what already exists for AQ BCS conf. members). Plus, the kind of schools we are looking to recruit are not the same kind of ones that the SEC is looking to recruit. Hope this answers your questions.

Thanks, mashtun, and, like you, I don’t see any YAC with GG passes.

I don’t see why we can’t make the LHN regional for the Pac. Get a little more out of ESPN for Tech, give TT about 25 or 30% and keep the rest. Call it “Longhorn-Raider Network” or something like that. (Maybe “LONGHORN-raider”?)

Abe,

The education part wasn’t in doubt, I could have gone to a lot of schools which would give me a great education. Few schools can offer a great education and great football tradition (and nice winter weather!).

Also, I do agree with you. It appears that OU is going to blow this whole situation up. So this whole premise could be a gonner if Cohiba Grande is correct.

the ice in his Scotch felt good…

Given the quality of the info coming out of his mouth, I’ll try really hard to give the Cigar a certain amount of doubt-benefit for what goes into it… but, damn, I hope the “Scotch” in question was some nasty blended shit and not The Balvenie or its ilk. Iced Scotch? Akkkkkk .

As for re-alignment, my preference at this moment is Football Independence. The two B-Balls will have no problem staying or bouncing, and the non-revs will find a fit somewhere.

A new day is coming in football. We will be seeing real playoffs with no Beauty Contest System in sight. Bowls will be back where they started – and imo belong – that is, as exhibitions. Have as many polls as you want, but no one will care.

Texannick said,“The Big XII as a 9 or 10 team league is NOT sustainable, because even though it works for UT and OU, it doesn’t work for anybody else.”

The Big XII is sustainable. Schools like Kansas, Kansas Sate, Baylor, Iowa State, Texas Tech, and Missouri don’t have better options. Where are they going to go? The Big East, Mountain West, Conference USA, or the WAC? How is that an improvement for any of these schools?

Maroon, I hear what you’re saying but if the watchword is “stability”, then ACC or Big East might start to look a LOT better. OU seems like they might be getting it, because they’re distancing themselves as fast as humanly possible.

One Flag, I really like your point about Dodds going after what he wants, rather than a negative consequence avoidance strategy. I guess I’d like to hear what he wants. Is it independence? Big XII survival? If so, what are those supposed to look like?

Where is Chris Jones on depth chart? Is he injured?

Actually Maroon, I want to get more specific, of the schools you mentioned, Mizzou and arguably Kansas DO have other options. Mizzou can prob go SEC anytime they want, and ACC or Big East would probably jump for them too. So what’s the absolute bottom # at which the Big XII matters? Tex/OU plus 6? Plus 5?

Money is killing college football. College football is the most popular sports today because of historic and traditional rivalries. If we discontinue our traditional game with OU because of the Longhorn network, my love for the sport will continue to erode. The game has changed drastically the last 20 years and not for the better.

 Go Independent or Go to the ACC and see how much fun that is. There is a reason why the SEC and the Big Ten are the best football conferences. They share TV dollars and the traditional powers are still the traditional powers. Texas doesn’t want to share TV revenue but say they want a stable conference. The math with that statement just doesn’t add up. There is a reason why Texas has now been a part of 2 failed conferences. Longhorn Fans have been drinking the kool aid served by Belmont. Do you guys enjoy being gouged by an athletic department that doesn’t need the money so you can order a channel to watch one football game? It’s ridiculous.

If we go to the Pac and fold the LHN into a regional, the deal with ESPN is gone. We don’t control a regional Pac network, the conference does. We take whatever money the other conference members decide to vote for us. That is why folding the LHN into a regional could cost us a billion dollars.

Groundhog,

The BCS championship game was the most watched game of the season. It didn’t exist a couple of years ago and featured two teams that I don’t think have ever faced one another. In fact, a college football fan 30 or 40 years ago wouldn’t have been able to find either team on a map or even tell you what the teams’ mascots were (actually most college football fans couldn’t do it today either). The ‘tradition’ card has proven to be bullshit time after time as the sport has continued to gain in popularity as the amount of tradition has continued to erode.

A playoff would have solved most of these problems if they had implemented it at the inception of the BCS, but the ‘tradition’ of the bowls (read, the real greed in college football) scuttled the option and now teams realize that the conference TV money is the teat to suck on rather than trying to reform the system to reward quality on the field.

The Big 12 only needs eight schools to keep the BCS automatic qualifier.

The Texas-OU game will survive even if OU moves to the Pac 12.

Okie State would be the biggest loser, if OU and Okie State move to the Pac 12. Okie State will be out-recruited by other schools that stay in the Big 12.

OU will continue to recruit well in Texas, but the Sooners won’t recruit better in California.

Kansas and Missouri don’t matter. They can be replaced with scrubs and it won’t make much difference.

If I’m UT, ultimately I can live with a chiseling of the money, but I want that brand ID. Let OU have a channel if it comes to that, let Ok State and Tech split one.

Seems to me the stickiest point is not the LHN itself, but how UT home events would be integrated into the overarching Pac channel, which is separate from the regionals we’ve been talking about.

May be it’s time to get out from under our warm, comfortable little blankie. The number of you screaming about tradition and conference sustainability is nothing more than a way to rationalize the gnawing little fear of being left out of the college football (BCS) picture.

Really?

No way in h-e-double hockey sticks will we be left out of college football’s elite. I know the “We Are Texas” phraseology has become overused and arrogant sounding, but it’s the truth. Sustain/build the LHN for three or four years as an independent and then re-evaluate if need be and join whatever conference we want to join.

What? A conference we want to join will turn us down? Don’t think so.

I don’t see why UT can’t just set up the conference so that everyone shares 1st and 2nd tier money rights equally, and then you’re on your own for 3rd tier rights (for us, the LHN)… which is EXACTLY how the SEC is set up. If it wasn’t for the rampant cheating, horrible admissions standards, and sub-par academics, I think UT would have already joined.

I think UT wanted LHN to mature (and to have a value) in the open market before they were forced to join a superconference. That way they could use that as a negotiating ploy, or even cobble together their own superconference with teams willing to have their own channel for t3 rights with t1&2 rights shared equally by all conference members. Kind of a ‘bicameral’ approach. I could see schools like ND and BYU being attracted to that.

Where is all the unequal revenue sharing complaining coming from? Colorado left because of the Texas legislature meddling in realignment – they had to make a decision quickly or get replaced by Baylor in last years realignment… Nebraska was in the top tier of revenue earners, and left because of conspiracy theories and being hurt over PQs when the conference was formed… A&M is in the top tier if earners and took money that UT and OU declined from Neb and Col exiting.. The SEC has virtually the same set up as Big Algebra does – but the lower tier schools (A&M in 5 years) get equal revenue on the tier 1 and 2 rights, but still make their own destiny with tier three… if they didn’t cheat and had similar academic requirements to the Big XII, it would be a good fit for Texas as well…

Texas is a part of two failed conferences.

And the upgrade from the 1st to the 2nd was significant.

lahorn,

Here’s the map to our tailgating spot. We’re hosting a bachelor party this week, so it should get interesting.

We already have enough money, more than anyone else, this is insane. I agree with the others who say choosing profits over tradition and the game itself is BS.

The LHN/ESPN deal is starting to feel like the worst thing that ever happened to Texas football. All of the Texas knob slobbing during the Rice coverage was ridiculous. Fans of other teams having to watch their team play us on the LHN will be lifelong Longhorn haters after that experience.

I hope Dodds is working behind the scenes to ensure our rivalry with OU remains intact and that we move into the PAC 16 and get away from the cancer that the Big XII has become.

Texas has a stronger hand than the Pac 12 or OU, why should we fold? We can have our cake and eat it too.

Well, I was thinking about stopping by the tailgate this weekend, but I’ll be steering clear of bachelor parties. :-)

My question is: What are the personal feelings of the Big Cigar (and even the Asset) on all this realignment talk? To be more specific, do they think Dodds has a plan that they trust? Or do they feel the situation is getting away from him in some way?

Groundhog:

Explain to me how this is equal revenue?

(posted above by ultralight)
SEC "equal treatment" tier 3 rights from last season,

University of Alabama $8,444,674.00
University of Kentucky $7,743,327.00
University of Florida $7,450,000.00
Louisiana State University $7,012,730.00
University of Tennessee $6,293,621.00
University of Georgia $6,231,392.00
Auburn University $4,637,605.00
University of South Carolina $1,829,000.00
University of Mississippi $1,658,650.00
University of Arkansas $950,000.00
Mississippi State University $0.00

Vasherized sez: We’re hosting a bachelor party this week,

Bringing additional meaning to the term "tail gating".

Does this bachelor party and tail gating constitute a single event , or two?

Austin Ex sez: Texas knob slobbing during the Rice coverage was ridiculous

Put me in mind of the obnoxious agy homer(s) on radio. Five minutes of listening to that shit, and you’re feeling less than charitable about your li’l bubba.

I don’t think we should be going there, but it’s par for broadcast/cable/satellite mentality.

The crappy stream I was watching generally hindered me from focusing on individual trench players for the most part during the Rice game. However, I do recall seeing Desmond Jackson pancaked a couple times and I note that DJ wasn’t credited with a single tackle in the game, so I was surprised to read the assessment that he had a “great game.” Maybe I just happened to see him on the few plays when he didn’t look so good. It’s also certainly possible for DTs to have “plus” plays without getting on the stat sheet (e.g., taking on double teams to free up teammates). I’ll need to go back, re-watch and focus my attention on the play of the DTs in the second half, but at this point color me somewhat dubious about the notion that Jackson had a “great” game. He might have done okay for a true frosh playing his first college game, but that doesn’t mean he was “great.”

John Harris will be your jump ball guy, he is bigger than White and high jumped 6 10 in high school.

I do not buy the idea of tossing the LHN in exchange for a stable conference spot. That can be obtained after the LHN is fully established to the point where not only would a conference not ask UT to drop or modify it, all its schools would want to create their own. If the LHN can generate $15-45 million per year and, since that money is not needed by the athletic department, where would one think that money would go? There is just so much that can be spent on facilities and salaries. The LHN has created two endowed professorships, one in physics and another in philosophy, in its first year. At a million bucks each. Imagine 10 endowed professorships a year and $30 million for academic scholarships. That would be tuition and fees for 3,000 students a year, 750 a class. 750 incoming freshmen receiving merit scholarships would make up10% of the class. Many students already receive substantial scholarships, so if this brings UT to having 10-15% of its students getting full scholarships, think of the quality of the student body. Funding from the state is dropping, causing tuition to rise. Private schools are taking advantage of the price of UT and offering reduced tuition so that their school is cheaper, tuition-wise. This can hurt the recruitment of low-income students to the point where only the middle class and above can attend UT. It often seems that the students who have no money when they arrive but make it big later are the ones that give back to schools.

Great writeup…

…except for that.

Because you know the Cigar’s first response was something like “I hear David’s into whips. And, uh, dwarves.”

It’ll never happen buy my dream scenario would be Texas, OU, Okie St and a&m joining Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss and Miss St in an SEC west division. Not only would we keep all the traditional rivals that we have in the Big XII but we’d be putting some Old rivals back into the fold.

I’m not sure that if we try to lead the development of a new superconference that it will be the 5th. I think the superconference endgame is 4 16 team leagues, where the top 2 from each play for their league titles and then you have a final 4. 5 leagues makes this messy.

What I could see happening is that we start to form a league of schools with 1. Good and broad athletics, 2. Want their own tv rights, 3. Good academics. This may attract a few schools from existing stable conferences (especially ACC, and possibly from Big 10 and PAC). After all, if we end up at 64, it’s not like every team in the BCS conferences will be included. Some have to be left out. So we raid the top ACC and BE schools, those leagues collapse and the remains of the top 64 caliber schools get reallocated to big 10, Sec and PAC.

So which schools might we attract to form the core of our league? Well BYU and ND are obvious. Maybe OU if they don’t go PAC. Maybe UNC, UVA, VaTech, Ga Tech, Maryland, perhaps Duke from the ACC. Not sure about BE candidates.

Thoughts?

“I think the big disconnect is that pretty much every other large school in the country is seeking conference stability over their own self interests, accept Texas.”
~ Kilgore Trout

Nebraska and Colorado bail on Big XII, after Missouri starts kicking the tires on a bail-out. Aggy threatens to go to SEC, promises to stay only if they get a disproportionate share of money, and then bails anyway.
~ The Facts

By the way … “Ash” – “Cigar”? Coincidence … ? I think not!

BEHorn, A&M last year was courted by the SEC and they offered a stable conference with shared revenue for 1st & 2nd Tier media. In my post, I was referrering to most BCS conference schools and not A&M in particular. I think the LHN might end up being a Pyrrhic victory for you in the long run if the B12-2-1 dissolves. Obviously most Texas fans don’t think this is the case, because after all “You’re Texas” and you tell other people how it’s going to be. It’s that attitude in part that has contributed to schools looking to separate themselves from you.

“cruzerld said:
September 6th, 2011 at 2:03 pm
I don’t see why UT can’t just set up the conference so that everyone shares 1st and 2nd tier money rights equally, and then you’re on your own for 3rd tier rights (for us, the LHN)… which is EXACTLY how the SEC is set up.”

This. And such conference should allow member schools to broadcast any home game(s) not already carried by the Tier1 or Tier2 networks. Heck, I’d consider paying $7.99 (for a month’s access) to K-StateHD.TV to watch a Texas-at-KSU football game on the Internet.

Kilgore, while I think the attitude/arrogance point is overblown, I do think you’re right about stability and the possibility that LHN is an albatross. I’m in favor of going PAC, and at this point, since the only Longhorn Network coverage I have seen has been on YouTube or BC, I’m ready to ditch it to make it happen.

Kilgore,

The real reason the big 12 is dying is the inevitability of super conferences due to the amount of money said conferences can leverage. The big 12 was ‘unstable’ because the PAC came a calling and a core part of the Big 12 (including more schools than just Texas) listened. This started the first domino to fall and is the main reason for A&M leaving. Recency bias can cloud one from the bigger picture.

Now not to say UT hasn’t bred some ill will but please state for the record some examples of Texas telling others “how it’s going to be”.

The only ones I’ve heard that are near valid are the PQs, which actually helped in making the conference more equal, and the issue with showing more than one game on the LHN, which supposedly originally was to be only one game. Keep in mind that ESPN is in charge of the LHN and in trying to maximize their product suggested the high school games. This issue has been taken care of like a conference should, the members came together and made their opinions known for what they think is best for the conference, and Texas listened and obliged. Any others?

Aggies do not lie, cheat, or steal. Unless you count going back on your word or breaking new contracts as lying. Or unless you count extorting conference members with threats of leaving unless given unequal shares of CU/NU liquidated damages as stealing. Or unless you count continuing to celebrate the “glory” of JS Fedex years as cheating.

It is fine for A&M to help break up the B12 over UT actions that would be completely allowed in the supposedly fair SEC. Texas will be OK even if the Aggie infidelity ultimately results in banishing KSU etc to nonAQ hell. Just don’t insult our intelligence by suggesting A&M is trying to do anything other than what it accuses Texas of doing: optimizing its own situation. The difference is that we face uncertainty while A&M appears headed toward stable long-term mediocrity under the hegemony of the Bamas of the world.

I’m actually all for super conferences if they bring about a playoff.

All that money and no place to dance. Stoops back tracked a little tonight saying his comment about not playing Texas was just political.

TexanNick said: September 6th, 2011 at 6:18 pm
… I’m in favor of going PAC, and at this point, since the only Longhorn Network coverage I have seen has been on YouTube or BC, I’m ready to ditch it to make it happen.
-
This+ 1. I find the idea of independence distasteful, especially if the motivating factor for going it alone is that we get to keep the LHN.

Hunting dogs, as well as all other things in the universe, LIE down.

Thanks for another fine report. I always enjoy them.

TexanNick: "Sure, Texas and OU will make their money, but everyone else gets peanuts and promises."

Everyone else in the conference gets more money than they’ve ever previously had with each successive television rights contract that gets drawn up. If that’s peanuts, they should be satiated circus elephants. There isn’t a conference in existence where the small fish join the big fish and through the magical properties of communism they all become the same size. That’s just B.S. some people like to throw out to the press or troll with on message boards. Read some figures like ultralight (hat tip) posted earlier in this thread of comments and you’ll see that clearly.

Pistol: "I think people need to step back and ask themselves why they want all that money. Its so the Longhorns can win titles and beat the best teams."

They already have plenty of money to accomplish that, but I think there is also an eye toward having cash to make up for things like funding cuts if necessary.

cruzerld: "I don’t see why UT can’t just set up the conference so that everyone shares 1st and 2nd tier money rights equally, and then you’re on your own for 3rd tier rights (for us, the LHN)"

Good thinking. That will probably be on the table if Texas were to negotiate with another conference. There are easy ways to run both a conference network and individual university networks simultaneously as well. I believe Dodds will make others aware of these opportunities.

Tony Clifton: "If the LHN can generate $15-45 million per year and, since that money is not needed by the athletic department, where would one think that money would go?"

Exactly the page I’m on with respect to some of the excess money. I don’t know it for fact, but I highly suspect it. It would fit perfectly with endowed chairs that have already been announced. A lot of people are getting too caught up in this as some sort of whimsical recruiting aide, when I don’t believe that was the purpose nor is that the limit of its potential. Other schools with networks can also reap rewards if they’re clever.

People keep talking about 1st and 2nd tier rights sharing…it has no place in the current conversation unless you are an Ag or Husker or disgruntled OU fan looking for rationalizations. Sure Baylor may not like it that the money isn’t divided up evenly like in other conferences, but then Baylor (or ISU, KSU, or KU for that matter) isn’t the one trying to break up the conference. The conference would have likely died sooner if the money were evenly split as the Texas teams would have realized what an albatross their Big 8 cousins are when it comes to TV money.

The SEC could drop the equal sharing of 1st and 2nd tier rights tomorrow and the conference’s stability wouldn’t be greatly effected. Which power conference wants to snap up Mississippi State or Vandy? If they leave the SEC for Conference USA or some other non-AQ conference they make way less money even with unequal sharing.

Saul: Regarding your post to TexanNick, you are right. This idea that conferences need to “share revenue”, for a lot of people, comes from their notions about how the NFL works and all the championing of that model. They can’t make the distinction between a professional sports organizations with anti trust exemptions and university athletic affiliations.

The amount of money we are talking about between the haves and “have-not” isn’t the figure that we should be focused on. We should be focused on the amount of money a Kansas State makes being affiliated with a UT or OU (or even A&M) as opposed to being affiliated with say an Air Force, or SMU, or Rice type Uni.

Ricky, you make many points that I didn’t but they are in the same vain as my points. Complimentary, if I may say.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-sec-texasam

Just FYI. Looks like one school (Baylor?) is reacting to the OU comments.

Dave said: Hunting dogs, as well as all other things in the universe, LIE down.

Unless, of course, this happened last Saturday night, in which case, they LAY down.

Grammar Nazi failure, imo.

Lie, lay, lain – assuming my 6th grade teacher wasn’t fucken wid me and all the textbooks and grammar manuals are correct.

After years of lurking on this site and the cosm, reading about this topic has brought me to make my first post.

“Too clever by half” is how I would describe the moves currently being considered by Aggie and OU.

AGGIE, dont u know that in the non-playoff BCS world, it is much better to be a big fish in a small pond, than a small fish in a big pond. Do you really think Aggie will keep Whooping it up after multiple seasons of 5-5 in the SEC? And to add insult to injury, the SEC allows for third tier rights, so they will have to deal with not having a network again in the very near future.

OU, dont u know what happens when you move out of the Texas television market and into another conference? Learn something from what happened to Arky. They are not a player for elite Texas recruits anymore… and since your team is full of Texas DNA, you should really pay attention. Do you really think that you can replace this lost talent by convincing Cali guys who grew up in perfect weather and cool cities to move 1000+ miles to Norman? Really? OU, if you move to PAC (without us, which is what I believe will happen, explained below), then you are as stupid as Aggie and it will be the end of OU being an elite football program.

SUPER CONFERENCES. I dont get it. In a playoff world, they absolutely dont matter. Are we playing chess or checkers? In the long run, there be many schools that have their own LHN. We are just the first, the trendsetter, and often the trendsetter is ridiculed by the status quo, but make no mistake, when we are talking about billions of dollars at stake, it will be the future, so no, we will not be going to the PAC if it means changing the LHN. Sorry, wont happen.

OUR FUTURE, is to be independent. After all, we’re Texas. We think big. We are the only state that used to be its own country. It is in our DNA to be independent and we are one of the few that can actually pull it off after decades of being the largest university in the land. Our alumni are like Chinese restaurants… they are everywhere. : ) For example, I write this from Rio de Janeiro and would love to buy me some LHN. Today is Brazil’s independence day, so feels like a sign of the future.

SHORT TERM. I agree with others who state that while independence is our long term destiny, our hand is getting forced a bit in the short term, where we would have preferred to not make this decision until the LHN is stable, perhaps 3-5 years in the future.

Short Term Option A: We patch up the Big 12, even if it becomes a weak conference. So what if we have a few years of feeling like the old Southwest Conference days, with new “old” members like TCU, SMU, and Cougar High. Even if we get reduced to 8 teams, we could still act like the BIG EASY league and waltz undefeated into plenty of BCS bowls, while still preserving our rivalries. We could still play OU and A&M as out of conference games. It would be plenty SOS. Plus, it would just be funny to cash the checks from Aggie, OU and Okie light.

Short Term Option B: Get busy living, or … you know. F em. Go independent now. As Esquivel pointed out earlier, a schedule like below doesnt look so bad, right?

Esquivel said: September 6th, 2011 at 10:45 am
Texas as a football independent with most games on the LHN is the most likely option at this point.

Learn to embrace future schedules like the following:

Rice
Arkansas
UTSA
UCLA
OU
Texas Tech
Houston
Notre Dame
Navy
BYU
Baylor
Aggie

We WILL be able to pull off a schedule with enough SOS to both be respectable for BCS and also be interesting to watch. Most middle tier schools, especially those in need of money, will always want to play us, and our hated rivals will also always make room for us.

As an independent, we will always be able to schedule A&M and OU, and probably Tech and Baylor as well, wherever they end up. Add BYU and Notre Dame and you already have 5 strong games (Im excluding Baylor :) That is plenty respectable no matter what pansies are plugged in for the rest of the games. In the future, after everyone sees how ridiculously good it is to have your own branded LHN, more schools will jump and the “checkers move” of superconferences will yield to the chess move of independents, along side a true playoff system, as that is where the money is, and having your own network creates the correct incentive to make that happen sooner.

So please, fellow longhorns, be strong. Fear not the idea of independence. It is our destiny and in our DNA. We are Texas. Hook Em!

Sorry for the long post.

FREEEEEEEEEEEEDOMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!

Sorry TDL, I saw another person implying equal revenue was to blame for the Big 12 break up and just responded without reading the rest of the thread.

So the Big Cigar said Texas forced Baylor to lay down so A&M would leave the Big 12?? What happened to that? I guess he was wrong again.

Ricky, your comment preceded mine. I’m just pointing out that many of your points were things that I would have said had I 1) thought of them or 2.) had time to type them let alone think of them.

maybe, Oklahoma happened to that, Gay. And why are you even here? You are too pathetic.

Just the fact that he claims UT wants A&M to leave the Big 12 and they are making Baylor stand down is hilarious. I’m sure after A&M tells Baylor to fuck off and joins the SEC it will be because UT told them they could. This chump doesn’t have a fucking clue what is going on. Notre Dame to the Big 12 and playing on Thanksgiving. HHAAHAHAHA outstanding.

an attorney posting on shag said what i suspect to be the case:

Posted by LonghornLawyer
The amazing thing to me is the SEC’s position on all this. If either (1) they hadn’t done anything wrong or (2) aggy was worth paying whatever price necessary to get them even notwithstanding any litigation arising from their wrongdoing, they wouldn’t have made this condition. But the condition looks to me like an acknowledgement both that they have engaged in wrongdoing and that aggy isn’t worth the litigation.

More than anything it looks to me like a graceful way for the SEC to extricate itself from this mess. They have no desire to start Realignmeggedon, and they’ve figured out that’s the inevitable effect of taking aggy. So they’re making impossible demands that they know Baylor will never accept in order to save face and revoke the offer to aggy.

i actually thought at the time the sec indicated it wanted to slow things down that it would come to this. their demand that the ags get their house in order perked my ears like nobody’s business.

Holy shit the delusion is continuing right up to the last few hours before A&M is officially in the SEC. greatness.

Two things: I dont think litigation really scares anybody who has been around the block. Aggy is going SEC and people need to get over it.

OU and OSU are going PAC, with or without Texas. How would you compel ATM to stay then?

Texas cannot prosper as an independent as things stand now. Someday you may have superconferences and a playoff, but right now you have the BCS.

ND is independent because the powers that be gave them special dispensation regarding automatic qualifiers. There is no way in hell Texas will get the same treatment.

Moreover, in the BCS era one loss can be enough to knock you out of NC contention, so nobody worth a shit is going to want to add a very risky game by playing a perennial top ten team like Texas. It would be scheduling suicide.

I hope we have our move lined up. We can do PAC and keep some version of the LHN, or go Big 10 without it. I really dont care, but independence is a non-starter.

Finally, too much attrition has already happened. The Big XII is like the Black Knight in Monty Python saying “tis but a scratch” but gushing blood all over the place.

gay, in the early nineties, were you anywhere near baghdad?

this from a pac-12 guy posting on the shag:

I have been laughing so hard all morning at Aggy ineptitude. I’m not sure who/what caused the proposed Pac 16 thing (including the Ags) to collapse last year, but the Pac 12 is saying “thank you” for saving us from this dumpster fire.

i have to wonder how the big ten feels about bringing in the ags, assuming they are reading this stuff. back in the original realignment drama, several on frank the tank’s joint were saying they might like having the ags around. give a nickel to know their opinion now.

“Gay said: September 7th, 2011 at 9:26 am

So the Big Cigar said Texas forced Baylor to lay down so A&M would leave the Big 12?? What happened to that? I guess he was wrong again."

Hi Gay boy! You said yesterday in another post that you’d be announcing your acceptance of the SEC’s offer today. Has that happened yet?

You also said you knew that “because I know shit”. Well, you certainly do know shit—-in fact, you know Jack Shit! Looks like you were wrong again except for the “knowing shit” part!

Since you are openly gay, I’d suggest you take some “man” lessons like Nathan lane in The Bird Cage before you go to Starkville, Oxford and Tuscaloosa and don’t bend over at any tailgates just in case. That is, of course, if mighty Baylor lets you leave.

Looks like someone has been laying in the weeds to fuck up your coming out party. I wonder who would have encouraged them to do such a thing?

HaHaHaHa! HaHaHaHa!

TDL and Ricky: I’m not making any point about revenue sharing. I just think the watered down Big XII is an incredibly unattractive option.

i’ve been following comment by ags, horn, bears, and others, and i didn’t realize xmas came on a wednesday this year.

this is interesting. the insider is a lady who works for a big donor, and she told blacklab last year what was going to happen with the coaches, and he says she was exactly right. here’s a report on what she had to say about 45 min ago:

Confirms much of the same info tweeted by Billy Liucci.

“Big XII conference call just ended. 3 teams suing Texas A&M and per SEC statement, SEC will not accept A&M until litigation/contractual hinderances are removed. Suits will not be cleared in time for SEC acceptance deadline so they would not be approved to exit the Big XII, like Beebe said in his follow up letter to Slive…”

HERE"S THE GREAT PART:

At some point, it was brought up that ‘so, A&M won’t be able to play in the SEC next season at all then, I guess.’ Beebe chimed in (basically), ‘Well they won’t be playing here either.’"

So, the litigation threat wasn’t necessarily directed at the SEC, but just issues over A&M’s departure, like you would normally have, to negotiate an exit settlement. I tend to believe this, since the SEC statement read:

Dr. Bernie Machen: “After receiving unanimous written assurance from the Big 12 on September 2 that the Southeastern Conference was free to accept Texas A&M to join as a new member, the presidents and chancellors of the SEC met last night with the intention of accepting the application of Texas A&M to be the newest member of the SEC. We were notified yesterday afternoon that at least one Big 12 institution had withdrawn its previous consent and was considering legal action. The SEC has stated that to consider an institution for membership, there must be no contractual hindrances to its departure. The SEC voted unanimously to accept Texas A&M University as a member upon receiving acceptable reconfirmation that the Big 12 and its members have reaffirmed the letter dated September 2, 2011.”

i forgot you have to italicize each paragraph individually. please consider everything from "Confirms much . . . " to “September 2, 2011” to be part of the quote.

yeh – Interesting stuff. I question in particular was in regard to the following statement in your post.

Suits will not be cleared in time for SEC acceptance deadline

I was aware the SEC had a deadline, and what is that deadline? Is it a deadline to play next year meaning their admission is just delayed a year, or is it a deadline that requires A&M to apply all over again and be voted in again by the SEC if they miss it.

Damn. Meant to say WASN’T aware the SEC had a deadline.

yeh – In rereading that is the deadline by the Big12? Does A&M only have a certain length of time the Big12 is allowing them to leave under agreed upon terms, or do the Big12 and SEC both have deadlines of some sort?

Are 3 teams suing Texas A&M or should it be that 3 teams have not waived their rights to pursuit legal recourse?

My understanding from reading a lot of the press is that the SEC took the Big 12 letter to mean that all teams had waived their rights to litigation, while in fact, that would require each school’s board of regents to vote to waive that right.

nunna, the letter from beebe to slive stated that the promise of no litigation from the big 12 expires tomorrow. i’m guessing at cob.

there’s no way.

here’s one shag poster’s speculation as to the meaning of the insider lady’s comments:

So let me make sure I fully understand this.
Aggy withdrew from the Big XII contingent on their application being accepted.
Their application was accepted (albeit with conditions, but it was an acceptance).
The Big XII can now accept aggy’s withdrawal since aggy has a conditional acceptance.

The SEC conditions preclude aggy from joining the SEC until it was free of contractual hindrances (which I would assume includes a pending lawsuit based on said contract).

those buckos may be homeless next season.

Lawyers make their livings on ambiguity. Humpty Dumpty was correct, but the ultimate Master is determined generally by the vote of a group of relatively uneducated rubes who demonstrate their lack of understanding of the system by believing that voting can in fact change the system.

As Robert Anton Wilson wrote (perhaps he was quoting):

If voting could change the system, it would be illegal.

paired with

If not voting could change the system, it would be illegal.

ern, there is some confusion. so far, the only thing is that baylor and possibly iowa st, kansas, and k-state are refusing to waive their rights. so far, there has been no action, and the sec doesn’t require action to back away. all those schools need to do (really only one will do it) is do nothing — promise nothing — and the sec wants no part.

some are speculating that the sec knows they are on shaky ground and won’t lift a finger without waivers. loftin is admitting that it isn’t likely that all nine schools comply with the request.

it is entirely possible that the sec wants no part of aggy at all, now that they see what agginess is all about. everything they have done the past several weeks since they put a slow-down on the process could be consistent with gracefully opting out of the deal.

aggy is a ship adrift.

Here’s an AP update on the the Beebe communication with the SEC about the legal actions.

Update on Baylor threat

A couple of great lines in here. First and foremost:

“Texas A&M President R. Bowen Loftin told the AP in an interview that Tuesday’s email was "really a violation of trust" on the part of Beebe.”

Yeah. Kinda like committing to a conference for the long term and then a year later deciding to take your ball and bail out, leaving a bunch of schools like Baylor to deal with the fallout. Good thing no one would ever commit that kind of “violation of trust”.

“Beebe then sent Tuesday night’s email around the time that SEC presidents and chancellors were voting on an application from Texas A&M to join by next summer.”

It would be really interesting to know if they didn’t actually see that information until after the vote. Makes you wonder if the vote would have even taken place, since it makes the SEC look a little silly at the moment have voted to accept A&M but not actually extending the invite yet due to entanglements. It’s like inviting someone into your house but refusing to open the door for them.

by ‘gracefully’, i mean appearing to accept the ags but setting provisions that cannot be met.

No problem with that. One outcome I can assure you of – on July 1, 2012, A&M will not be in the Big XII Conference. That’s a fact.

Am I correct that part of Baylor’s (and others) gripe is that the agroids took a disproportionate share of the NU & CU break-up fee as part of the new B12 -2 deal and then bolt for the SEC one year later?

Or is it a tortious interference claim against the SEC (which they are trying to avoid with this talk of “we’ll take you only if you are clear of legal encumbrance”) and a breach claim against the agroids?

nunna, that’s a good analogy. the sec may want no part of the ags, but they got them into this mess and can’t just refuse them. their request for waivers is understandable. they are just protecting themselves. but it could also serve to squelch the deal in a way that doesn’t point to them as doing it. that sort of thing happens in politics, business, and industry all the time.

handling a refusal this way probably means the ags can’t sue them either.

good points, texel.

I for one truly appreciate Aggy running interference here. Once all the dust settles on this sordid affair, Texas, OU, OSU and TTU will have a much clearer picture of how hard or easy it will be for a school(s) to bolt the Big 12 and how to step around the potential landmines. Sort of an “all the wrongheaded shit you need to avoid” template.

borna, your second paragraph covers it, i think.

the irony of the ags insisting on a disproportionate share and then squealing for equal revenue sharing is laughable but not what has gotten the sec and them in trouble.

yes, jake, and i think we are seeing why deloss has insisted that someone else bust up the place.

fools rush in.

I have to wonder though about a Big12 stance that A&M won’t be in our conference next year whether they are in the SEC or not. OU basically sent the message last week that if A&M is gone they will be looking to leave also. By refusing to take A&M back wouldn’t Beebe still be ensuring the demise of the conference as such? Not that this is a bad thing from my perspective, but I would think from Beebe’s perspective it is.

Maybe Boren’s message on Friday was intended for Beebe.

yeh, the SEC can indeed just refuse Aggy. I’m not predictung they will or won’t, but they definitely can with no legal ramifications whatsoever.

The real question, which I doubt anyone knows the answer to right now (except Gayboy of course), is how long will it take to get this untangled and what will it ultimately take to do it? Oh, and Tech was quoted in an ESPN article as saying its Board has not formally met to waive its legal rights either.

Big Ern,this is about more than just not having formally waived rights, IMO. At least one school (guess who) has gone farther than that. Otherwise, it would appear that Beebee was intentionally lying when he sent the letter to Slive. Frankly, I don’t think he’s that smart.

sounds like reports are that Baylor and OU reached an agreement and that OU is promising to stay in the Big 12 and Baylor will drop threats of litigation.

sounds like reports are that Baylor and OU reached an agreement and that OU is promising to stay in the Big 12 and Baylor will drop threats of litigation.

link?

Baylor’s 247 site…

http://baylor.247sports.com/Article/Latest-on-the-Big-12-38902

Nunna, if Aggy is both left out of the SEC and the Big 12, which could happen, then it’s because they (and the SEC) were legally forced into that position through threat of lawsuit. That threat would still be there if OU wants to leave. Again, that’s why I’m so grateful to “Our friends in College Station” for doing all the heavy lifting on this. As it stands, the Big 12 would have nothing to lose by cutting Aggy loose with no home.

yeh, I couldn’t agree more about Dodds. We have sat back quietly and indirectly orchestrated most of this for a good reason. That said, I don’t think we anticipated the OU stiff, but we helped Aggy be the Test Tube Baby and they jumped in with both feet and all four toes.

Ern, I hope they got that in writing? Also, the link is to a pay site.

. . . jumped in with both feet and all four toes.