Brigham Young Breakdowns

Great stuff (as always) LHS. You’ve been noticeably absent around these parts lately. Good to see you back and contributing!

Couple of additions:

In one of the Ash Read plays I incorrectly identified the read defender. Not the last time I’ll mess something up recording, I am sure >:o

Secondly, sorry for the loud keyboard in the background of some of the recording. I suppose I’m going to need to get a decent mike at some point.

D.C., I’ve been around but I don’t have a ton of free time during the week. Just enough to eek out some breakdowns :]

Scott – thanks as always for the knowledge-drop. Only problem w/ the audio is that it makes it tough to digest at the office.

Great read!

Lil Shipely does look a lot like Jordan. I have a feeling that mistake will be made a lot this year.

Great stuff LS. Between you and P over at Shaggy it’s a great review of the games.

I especially liked the train sound you layered in for sound effects. Next time, put that sound in as Malcolm is running over a few LBs.

great vids! Thanks!

The option QB should attack the INSIDE shoulder of the contain defender. This causes a commitment for the defender to take the QB sooner. If the defender turns his back to the sideline – immediate pitch. If he slow plays, the inside attack forces a reaction or an immediate cut upfield by the QB.

Thanks for the effort, Scott.

Great work again, Scott. We have heard that Ash has a great arm. If so, and Harsinwhite install plays to exploit it, are we not getting close to a nightmare scenario for opposing DCs?

It will be interesting to see how the extreme QB subbing will pan out on the road this weekend in LA, and in an environment like the cotton bowl.

Good stuff man

lonesome devil,

I disagree with you a little bit there. The aiming point for the QB should be the outside shoulder of the defender… that’s what actually forces a clear commitment from the defender.

LHS you are a national treasure

Roy Hobbs,

Absolutely a nightmare. I think that’s where our big plays in the passing game come from in the short term. We present a significant containment threat with the read and option plays, so we should be able to target the force players for some unwanted attention off of play action.

was expecting to see more out of te/hb, blocking anf catching. whar u think for ucla?

Great as usual. I agree with Wandering. The voice over lets you explain things better, but it doesn’t work so well for reading at work. If your work wasn’t so good, we’d all just wait until we got home.

dam fone. what you think for ucla?

I could watch this stuff all day Scott. Thanks for the breakdowns. What video program do you use?

I am waiting for the Ash passing package as well. Does anyone think we’ll get to see anything in the UCLA game? We became so one dimensional in the end, BYU knew we were running the ball with Ash in the game. Maybe that’s the long term plan (catch later teams off balance due to a commitment to the run with Ash in), but it would be nice to see him sling it a couple times. I just feel like we have to get some reps under his belt before we play teams like Okie.

egg sealant stuff, scott. much appreciated.

we horn fans should pitch in and get you an ideal setup for doing this. your work deserves the best. somebody who can do it, set that up.

buford, we may not see ash throw the ball very much until early october. i’m betting that’s when he’s ready for that.

hee hee.

Sorry about work complications, not much I can do for you there ;]

Fong,

I think going forward our offense is going to look to apply perimeter pressure first with the reads and option to open up the C gap runs later. That in conjunction with quick passing and screens are going to be the starting places for us. I haven’t scouted UCLA’s defense much but they don’t have much to go on with Ash other than knowing that we are going to run him… we’ve showed so few plays that they can’t expect the same exact looks only the same ideas. I think eventually we’ll see Speed Option as well as an H-Back option along with Play Action to round out some of the stuff we have started with Ash. I also wouldn’t be surprised to see us go Unbalanced with Ash at QB with the same idea as the Wildcat… to really overload that side of the defense.

McCoy’s decision making has been great in the limited viewings. I basically view him as a Quick Game guy on early downs and a 3rd and medium specialist, his scrambling was premature at times but it also allows him to find windows.

I’m just like everyone else though, I’m excited to see how Harsin problem solves with the ingredients he has. He showed us in the last game that he can adjust on the fly with this group and a lot of that was because of the foundation he had laid with his packaging. Now that the focus of the offense has shifted, I think the offense will open up faster than expected but also face some tendency challenges.

JAXON!

although I can understand the confusion

nice stuff! thank you!

Nathan,
Can’t believe I did that. Fixed.

Buford T. Justice,
My process is a hot mess of different programs. The main video editor I use is avidemux2, which is open source. It’s a little tricky to get used to but works with a lot of different formats and gives you a lot of control.

ggu…shouldnt you be studying for your 8th grade math test? why are you here? this blog was in no way about your team or anything to do with anything you referenced in either of your posts.

LHS, you are a gentleman and a scholar. i very much appreciate watching your breakdowns of the games. (so far i haven’t been able to watch any of them live) keep up the good work.

-Hooah!

LS,
This was the best 45 minutes of my day. Did you learn X’s and O’s from playing or watching tape? As much as I love to feel like an insider after reading the cigarillos, you’ve become my favorite poster. Thanks you, and please keep it up as much as possible.

My question is: What will it take for Ash to incorporate Case’s quick passing game into his own? We’ve heard all about Ash’s accuracy. Wouldn’t a quick passing game limit the difficult progressions we’re told he isn’t yet comfortable with? Or is it the opposite? Also, what do you think will come quicker to him, the short passing game or the play action game?

I was a Gilbert/Ash man this summer. Gilbert had his second chance and flopped. Case is the quintessential game manager and, while I think that’s enough to win the easy games this year, game management is not the apogee of Bryan Harsin’s offense. The faster Ash learns, the better.

Simms to Gilbert,

Thank a bunch for the compliment. I played some football when I was younger but quit my freshman year of high school (along with all the other sports I was playing) in a fit of teenage angst. Most of what I know is from watching, reading, and discussing football over the years. I was lucky enough to know a few folks who know a lot about football and were willing to share their views and I was able to pick things up from them over time as well. It’s not the easiest subject to self teach because you have to delve way down into one specific thing before it really opens up at all. I’m fascinated by football strategy (obviously) and I try to keep learning all the time. Coolest thing for me is watching what a team is doing and learning something new and then figuring out where it came from. It’s a cliche but it all really does start with blocking… the complexity in the running game always pulls me in.

In my opinion the quickest link for Ash into the passing game is off of play action… you are normally going to get the simplest reads in play action and it naturally goes with what we are already doing with him. The quick game demands fast decision making, timing, accuracy, and footwork. It takes a lot of reps to develop at a high level. What the spread does is makes the reads a little bit more obvious for the QB and limits alignment games from the defense.

LS,

I know of several good blogs out there, but do you have any book recommendations for football strategy?

Simms to Gilbert,

To be honest I’ve stopped reading my stategy as much in books. I used to get the coach of the year clinic books every year for christmas and those are pretty good but they are directed more at coaches. These days it is really tough to beat what’s happening on blogs. Smartfootball has some pretty good reading lists on a regular basis so you could do a little sniffing there… there’s a lot of stuff Chris recommends that I’ve been meaning to read myself.

LS

Great stuff and I really enjoy your posts!

Question for you:

Berryhill appears to be one of our best blockers. In your opinion does he have the requisite physical skills to play other positions (specifically H-back) and add value to the offense?

ohorn,

To my eyes, he definitely does… I love him as a lead blocker. He’s not huge but he is incredibly effective and as I’ve said he is comfortable finding targets inside or in space. I am openly lobbying for more Jamison Berryhill.

the long term plan

As I understand it, the LTP is to add wrinkles/contradictions to the plays and play sequences a little each week, with emphasis on what wrinkles are expected to work on that week’s opponent and saving the others for later opponents – at least, that’s what the HMS – Harsin, Mad Scientist – approach seems to have been at BSU and appears to be continuing to be.

Additionally, the gadget plays (WR passes, etc) are definitely to be used every week – the players love it, and there are tales of even the D laughing after being victimized in practice. It’s a lot more fun to practice something you KNOW is going to be used, fer sher.

Re: Jordan… errr, Jason… errr, Jaxon…

Name change indicated: J. Shipley I reckon.

Great breakdown Scott, thanks! Are you the same Longhorn Scott that occasionally calls Sportsradio 790 in Houston? Big fan.

I think your video shows that Harris needs to start based on nasty blocking alone.

I wonder if Fozzy has the green light to keep it on one of those Wildcat reads. He had a huge swath of green on the one where Shipley got pile driven.

So…who is the LonghornScott for defense?

TexLong,
Yep. The difference now is that the a lot of the focus of the offense is on a package that was originally something we were going to slow develop.

TexanNick,
Nope. I loathe sports radio and I live in Austin.

Hey Man,
Nickel Rover did some defensive breakdowns last week. I wanted to try to get some defense in this week too but it’s tough. I’m workin at the margins of my schedule.

My completely uneducated guess is that the coaches are waiting for OU to unleash the Ash passing package. At least that’s what I hope is happening, rather than a lack of confidence in this arm.

And speaking of Ash, as much as I like his physicality and his option / read plays, I do hope that he soon realizes that he doesn’t have to read the defense by braille. Electing to pitch the ball BEFORE getting hit is not an insult to his manhood, which has already been established in abundance.

Thanks man – great analysis. Probably shouldn’t have watched all that at work – but I can’t stop myself.

You magnificent bastard.

Great stuff. I feel like I’m attending football school and am working for a certificate by season’s end. You definitely are adding to game appreciation.

Amazing work as always. Thank you for posting. On Gilbert’s first INT, while recognizing that he should have looked to Davis first, do you agree with P from shaggybevo that Gilbert—once locked in on the left—should have thrown to Shipley instead of White? It sounds like your recognition that White ran the wrong route made it even more appropriate to target Shipley at that point.

my hunch is that D. White broke his route off because he assumed that the ball was going to Shipley on the out and he wanted to block the corner to make sure Shipley got the first. Or at least that’s the best logic I can apply to the behavior.

The problem is that those 5 plays are now on tape and people can prepare for every eventuality of those plays.

adding to game appreciation

absolutely. several on this site and elsewhere are making this game much, much more enjoyable, especially for us little, slow guys who never got to learn much of it on the field. my size 5½ hat is off to all you guys and especially scott.

godeep, harsinwhite wants people to prepare for everything we put on tape.

I like crack!! Crack is good! Can I has some mo crack pleaz!!

Everybodygodeep,

Success is not dependent on surprise, that’s merely one of the devices that Harsin uses. The more important and lasting components are thoughtful design and constraint.

Fantastic stuff. Keep up the good work!

LS,
I was surprised to see Grant on the receiving end of a big 4th down conversion. Do you think we see more of him in the weeks to come? With our passing game consisting of short quick passes, most of them outside the numbers it would be nice to see a threat down the middle of the field. I think Shipley can control the middle like his brother, but do you see our coaches trusting the QB’s to test that middle of the field?

Scott,

Great point about Case running a quick passing attack and Ash leading a running and play action passing attack.

It will be natural for Case to run a lot of screen plays as part of his short passing attack. The personnel tupled with Case should include DJ Monroe, Irby, DJ Grant, and Matthew. Case throws a very soft, easy to catch pass which will help Monroe and Matthew catch the ball. Grant and Irby are a bit small to block a DE but can definitely block LBs, safeties, and corners (very useful in a short passing game). Case could also be tupled with lighter, faster linemen who are a liability in standard pocket passing protection or standard running schemes but will flourish in a quick passing attack where their mobility can be utilized and they don’t need to sustain a block against a DL.

The ability to use these under utilized players in a short passing attack led by Case not only improves the diversity of the horns attack but also increases the depth of the horns O.

Tupling Brown, Dominique Jones, the more dominant OL players with Ash puts the players who are best suited for a running attack together. It also permits Ash to hand off to Brown inside on the option and leave the outside to Ash. This will preserve Ash’s health.

Use the Case led short passing O in the first part of halves when the DL is not yet fatigued because the OL is not required to block them because Case will be throwing the pass so quickly. Use the Aash led power running and play action passing attack after the foe’s DL gets a bit fatigued.

LH,

Whoa! “…adjust on the fly”? Is that legal for an OC to do?

I don’t remember Irby’s blocking from before but he seemed a gamer and in this film you can see he’s not, presently — he’s hesitant and engages blocks too tenderly, he gives up his position, he doesn’t square up and drive the defender with leverage but instead takes a back step away from the defender’s inertia. I can only wonder if he’s just not ready to be back out there, cause I know the guy can be nails.

Irby and DJ Grant are now both at H back rather than TE on the depth chart. I don’t think Harsin would expect either one to block a big DE.

Well we definitely ask the H-back to block the DE at times, and BYU’s DE are about as big as they get and as we saw Irby definitely struggled there. BYUs DEs gave us problems with Inside Zone and Flex Outside Zone… we couldn’t kick them or pin them with any regularity.

Take a look at those breakdowns. Seems he was whiffing on everybody, not just DEs. DJ was not. Love Irby, but thems the facts, at least in those clips.

"…adjust on the fly"? Is that legal for an OC to do?

not if we get good at it.

Horses for courses. Both DJ and Irby are a bit light to block a big DE. Both are a better fit for a short passing attack which puts much less stress on line blocking.

Irby used to be an excellent blocker. Maybe he is just rusty from being out so long.

good grief. how long has blaine been out?

check on him again in two months.

same for cody. he’s obviously learning to block. check back on him in two months.

obviously i agree — as usual — with kafka.

LHS,

Great work. I didn’t get to watch the game as I was coming back from my honeymoon overseas but this gave me plenty to feel like I’m in the loop. You’re insight into the blocking schemes is very informative and I think you pin-point the “force” position that Harsin tries to isolate very well. I do have to agree with Lonesome Devil, however. I was an option quarterback in high school (which doesn’t mean a whole lot since my coaches weren’t great by any stretch) and by attacking the inside shoulder of the free defender you force a directional choice (inside for qb vs. outside for pitchman). If the qb attacks the outside shoulder, it allows the defender to stay put, wait for the qb to get even and then continue a parallel track or strafe the line with the qb. At that point, he can essentially gain an inside leverage position and force a pitch where he’s already moving toward the pitch man. A guy like DJ can probably overcome that against slower backers but I was always taught to force that man to turn his back to either the field or the sideline.

Yeh,

Thanks. Great point about Cody. It is surprising to me that he is just learning to block. He is a smart guy, you would have thought that he would have focused more on blocking earlier in his career (since FB is is obviously his meal ticket on future Sundays).

I’m the size of your typical college DE and always found the heavy, low center of gravity guys (like Cody) tough to deal with when I could not keep them at arm’s length.

Hey John,

In theory I agree with you. The problem is with the athleticism of linebackers at the college level. An athletic guy can play the middle ground with his shoulders square and pressure both. Once you make that break for the inside you can no longer pitch. With an outside shoulder aiming point, you can keep the pitch viable longer and keep him from playing the pitch and the pitchman. There are totally two viable schools of thought here though, so I appreciate you guys putting your perspective out there too and adding to the discussion.

LonghornScott said: September 15th, 2011 at 10:32 am

Everybodygoesdeep,

Success is not dependent on surprise, that’s merely one of the devices that Harsin uses. The more important and lasting components are thoughtful design and constraint.

Also as you pointed out Scott, if our offense can execute some of our plays regardless whether or not the defense knows what particular play is coming. We can pretty much run our goal line package with Walters, Berryhill, and Johnson at the B gap and no one is probably going to be able to stop us.

LS, many thanks again for your excellent work!
Do you envision that maybe Searels should start teaching the tight ends how to block? I was just amazed at the miss blocks and angles taken by Irby as well as Dom. Maybe Cody can join them, too.

I hate the design of the option play that Ash runs with DJ Monroe. Running your QB inside should be an extremely rare thing because of the risk of injury. Beyond that, Ash and the TB are running together, right next to each other, going the same direction. It is slow developing (letting the D fly to the ball), doesn’t force the D to make a decision (the QB and TB are so close together that a big defender could grab them both) and has no direction change in it to set up blocks for the OL.

I’d much rather see Ash run a sprint draw option with Brown at TB. Ash has the option to either hand off to Brown cutting back to the inside, in the opposite direction of Ash or he can keep it, roll out and have the run/pass option. This play is quicker developing, forces the D to make a quick decision, sets up OL blocks, protects Ash, and has a third option.

LHS,

Thanks. I think that makes sense. Probably why we were 4-7.

“good grief. how long has blaine been out?”

Is that relevant? He’s either ready to block or not.

Bobby,

I understand what you are saying but it is kind of an emotional issue. Irby was off to a great start his frosh year before he sustained that terrible injury. Horn fans tend to be willing to cut him some slack in his comeback. As long as his body doesn’t betray him, my guess is that Irby will be a good blocker before the season is over. Having said that, I would play him on the short passing team where line blocking is much less important rather than the running team with Ash.

kafka, i don’t think cody had warmed up to the idea of not being a principle ball carrier until fairly recently. we all know that hotshot hs rbs almost never know how to block and some think it beneath them, for some reason. i don’t know about cody, but i’m guessing he has never been asked to block with any regularity, and it shows right now. major will get him up to speed.

bobby, yes, it is relevant. takes a while to get back into the physical mindset that blocking requires. or tackling, for that matter. it is still amazing to me that blaine is out there, and i’m sure our staff knows what it takes to get a kid back into the swing of it.

as usual, kaffers said it better.

Kafka,

I agree that the spacing needs to get a little better on the triple option. But we definitely see Ash as a power runner… that’s probably not going to change. He and Monroe threaten the same side on the power read as well. I’m hoping we will work some speed option from the same alignments as the power read to threaten both sides of the defense from that same alignment… that would help open up the power read inside as well. An then, of course, play action is the big threat from all of the alignments we are considering that will pry the defense apart. Agree with you on personnel packaging with the two QBs.

I hate the design of the option play that Ash runs

I’m thinking it’s designed that way purposefully, and has more to do with contradictions to be added later, than with flawed design.

You said it, Kafka, it’s an emotional issue. Yeh, when you say how amazing it is that he’s out there, you hit the nail on the head, but that’s emotional. Of course any fan is absolutely blown away that he’s on the field and we have great expectations for him this year and I’m not exception. However what matters is that he’s ready to take on big blocks. And you don’t give a guy game-time to work that out. That’s what practice is for. Seems the right idea is what Kafka said about playing him on the short passing team until he’s up to speed for the hard sledding. For his sake as much as the teams.

Ash is not Tebow. Ash weighs 215, right? I understand that they are running Ash inside on purpose, my point is that it is stupid because it risks the health of Ash (a QB). It is a mistake to throw your QB to the big uglies of the DL.

I get that by running Ash inside, they can run DJ Monroe outside. Much better to pair Ash with Brown and let Brown run inside and Ash outside where can either pass or run and will more likely stay healthy.

Which defender shoulder the QB targets in the option is a function of the intent of the option. If you have a quick running QB, then you would be thrilled to see him get to the second level clean. You also want a quick-hitting play to maximize the chance of splitting a seam before the defense flows playside fully. That’s when you want to target inside shoulder and make a quick pitch-keep decision to get the ballcarrier into the secondary before the pursuit can arrive.

With the Ash-Monroe duo, it would seem obvious to me that the ideal resolution would be to get DJ the ball on the outside with the targeted defender forced to take the QB. Unless Ash is an even better runner than he’s shown so far, Monroe is the home-run threat here. Since you WANT to pitch in this situation, you target outside shoulder. Even if the defender tries to slow-play it, he has to work hard to stay outside of the QB in this situation. If Ash reaches the outside shoulder he can pitch knowing that his position will screen the targeted defender enough for DJ and his speed to break past easily.

Kafta : Ash weighs 222. if Harsin/ Applewhite Designed plays with a scared stick someone else would have their jobs. If you play option you dont play scared.

Nice. Thank you LHS. I have put my request into Mack and Deloss to give a regularly scheduled show on the LHN.

Generally, if in football if you worry about running certain plays because a player might get hurt, you don’t do very well. A QB could get hurt dropping back to pass and getting blind sided by a 300lb lineman. I don’t think anyone would suggest we stop throwing the football.

Granted, you don’t put your QB in on a punt return or a kick-off. But, injuries are a part of football, you don’t like them, but you learn to live with them.

Also I grant you that the NFL doesn’t like to run QB’s frequently, but even there a QB draw is extremely effective and not unknown.

And Ash is not even the starter. You kids may not remember this, but we had a whole National Championship pinned to the ability of Vince Young to stretch the defense by running the ball.

Auburn utilized the same sort of power-read play with Cam Newton last year, obviously another big runner. It’s really effective for outnumbering the defense at the point of the attack and they installed it with Ash not being the every down QB yet.

There are risks to relying on your QB in the running game but we’ve done worse, it’s not as though we have a complex passing offense based on timing, quick reads and accuracy that absolutely requires Ash’s health to operate. Option and power football is our offense right now so we gotta do what it takes or lose ball games.

Excellent visual compendium to the game. Thanks for the good work.

Very nice work, Scott. Thanks!

I swear that the first interception looks like it was tipped at the line. Anybody else see that?

Longhornscott…

You are the man.. Thanks a bunch..

Hydromod,

I thought the same thing about the Ash pass to White that went right through White’s hands. It seemed like it’s trajectory changed after it passed the line.

Longhorn Scott,

I know these take a lot of your valuable time and you do it for nothing but your own enjoyment in talking football shop and knowing that the readers enjoy it. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the punctuated jump in X’s and O’s understanding that I’ve gained from your posts in a short time.

No matter which shoulder is targeted, I think the best option pitch men are the ones that watch the defender’s movements and make the correct read in a split second. It’s very simple but pure beauty to watch, and I love that it’s a part of the offense.

That said, I’ve always been a proponent of offenses that can run and pass, so it’s harder for me to watch teams that largely ignore either the run game or the forward pass. In my mind, teams like that have half an offense and are likely to lose when they face an opponent that fields a solid defense and a balanced offense. My father was USN though, so go Midshipmen!

I got to this party late (margins of schedule as well), but I just wanted to say thanks Scott. Great work as usual.

fantastic stuff bro!

I’ve watched those breakdowns at least twice.

Absolutely priceless analysis!

Just wanted to say thank you to all the positive feedback in the responses. Now let’s have some fun. It’s gameday, baby!

Ever thought about doing a live game play by play podcast? I’d certainly turn the tv sound off and listen. Might dampen your enjoyment of the live game, though.

I’m like everyone else. During a game I just wanna be a fan and ride the wave of excitement and emotion.