The First Rule Of Barking Carnival Is:

No agy.

No mo’.

Pliz?

I don’t care if we never play A&M again.

But I wouldn’t mind playing the aggies if they agree to the following conditions:

1) A&M plays Texas Tech and Baylor every year that Texas agrees to play A&M
2) A&M stops playing Arkansas in Dallas, and switches to home and home instead
3) A&M doesn’t pay players
4) A&M contributes to a fund to police recruiting in Texas and keep out $EC style recruiting
5) A&M agrees the game will be broadcast every year on LHN
6) Bowtie Loftin and Corn aggie Byrne lick Bevo’s butthole

Am I missing anything?

Nope, you just about covered it mc.

I realize there is a no politics ban on BC. But since you brought it up. Isn’t it a bit hypocritical for a party that believes that freedom from government is a net benefit to society to be proposing legislation that requires two schools to play each other in football?

Somebody should revoke those idiots GOP cards.

Personally I’d like to keep the game going, it’s a holiday tradition for me (with both Aggies and horns in the family) as well as lots of other folks. I don’t want to do it via legislation or legal action, however, we’re not Baylor.

Just when you think the ags can’t be any more delusional up pops a couple of idiots asserting decisions about a&m’s program will be made by aggies and by aggies alone but decisions about UT’s program will be made by former ags in the legislature. Yea, right.

Ags need to start figuring out how to saw Vanderbilt’s horns off in the non-televised Thanksgiving Day classic. That will surely help recruiting.

As anyone who follows the Texas Legislative process closely knows, the ratio of bills that get filed to those that pass each session is mind-numbingly low. This one will follow that norm. Oh, and Buddy Jones and his Baylor friends will have something to say about helping the Ags out as well as will Kent Hance and Texas Tech. Ut also has more than a few alumni as members and power brokers in the lobby. Not to worry.

*UT, that is.

Who or what’s an Aggy? Wasn’t it a STD eradicated in the mid-1800s by massive amounts of home brewed corn likker?

Mom warned me, “Don’t play with the stupid kids. You might become one.” It is time to send the sabres, boots, aggie jokes and ball-grabbing cheers to the SEC. No more aggies.

, we’re not Baylor[/quote]

Not yet.

I don’t know if you’ve been following current events or anything, but you’re about to get your asses kicked. [/Aliens] This season won’t go as well as you’d hoped and next year you may find yourself more green and gold than you ever thought possible. I emphasize “may.” It could work out okay for you in the long term, but odds are you won’t win any more football conference championships than those Baptists you ridicule.

As a fan, I was sad to think of the rivalry ending. As I’ve read more from the worst Aggies and the lies they tell themselves about how this all happened, I couldn’t care less if we cut them lose from their biggest reason for existence and replace them with a nationally prominent opponent.

I don’t like the game being on Thanksgiving Day, so that makes me a heretic to all.

I don’t think the “We Want to Have Our Cake and Eat it Too” bill is going to make it very far.

Sure ags, throw a shitfit and leave while fucking over the conference and bringing the SEC into the state of Texas, while keeping your marquee game for recruiting purposes. No problem. Where do we sign?

Does the no politics rule keep us from exploring how the Texas Legislature may have in fact caused this entire CF, starting back in 2003?

Btw, Dan Branch, IIRC, is chair of Higher Ed. I want to say he’s a graduate of neither Texas nor a&m (maybe SMU), but has 2 daughters at UT.

I’m all for the Prodigal Ags leaving, but still want the game to continue. Too much tradition, and going to the SEC will only make it better and draw more TV interest.

Drop aTm for every other sport but fb.

Hmm.

Keeping alive the tradition?

FUCK THAT!

Hypocracy thy name is aggie:

“We are being held hostage right now,” Loftin said of being forced to stay in the Big 12. “Essentially, we’re being told that you must stay here against your will and we think that really flies in the face of what makes us Americans for example and makes us free people.”

The Texas Legislature is designed to make it damn near impossible for a bill to pass. This one would be relatively easy to make go away — but it does make for some nice grandstanding for folks who are up for re-election.

Ditto what Jake said.

Plus, even if they somehow pass something the Lege cannot force UT to break its contracts. We have non-con games scheduled already until 2018. To make room for an Aggy game we’d have to either break multiple game contracts or refuse to admit a 10th member into the Big 12. The former isn’t something we can be forced to do, and contrary to popular wisdom the latter is not a decision made entirely at our whim.

The Ags are just playing CYA. They thought the Big 12 would implode without them and without that cover they’re concerned that they’ll be blamed for destroying the rivalry.

I would rather not continue. That way we can treat them with complete indifference and they will get what they want. They will go from little brother to a distant cousin.

we’re being told that you must stay here against your will

Loftin’s stupider than we thought, if he really believes that. My sixth grade teacher got the response to that one through the heads of even the densest of that class:

“You don’t HAVE to do anything except be born, and die. Everything in between is entirely up to you. BUT: there are consequences to both your actions and your inactions, and it behooves you to be aware of what those consequences may be and to be prepared to deal with them.”

Pro pasto said:

Drop aTm for every other sport but fb.

I prefer: Drop aTm from an airplane.

“The Aggies are on record as saying they want to continue the series, come rain, shine or the Longhorn Network.”

Let’s make them play it on the LHN.

I just hope the Pigboys get all liquored-up and kick some aghomo ass on live TV!

Wooooo pig, suey!!!!

PPK, I don’t think that game would make it to 3rd tier rights. Maybe we play again when Deloss retires.

Ags need to start figuring out how to saw Vanderbilt’s horns off

I laughed.

You’re right. It wouldn’t be rated that high after you become Mississippi State, Jr. Maybe we play again when hell freezes over.

When a close member of the family declares that they want a permanent, legal divorce from the family, then they should not expect an invitation back to Thanksgiving dinner.

“fucking over the conference”

I didn’t know the Ags wielded this much power. Plenty of blame to go around.

“They thought the Big 12 would implode without them and without that cover they’re concerned that they’ll be blamed for destroying the rivalry.”

1. O/U on how much longer the Big 12 exists?
2. Texas fans (and maybe some Big 12 minions) will think A&M destroyed the rivalry. The rest of the country will not.

Eventually, cooler heads will prevail, people will retire, and the game will be an annual tradition again. Schools switch conferences. Schools play biggest rivals from other conferences. Big fucking deal.

And yes, I think the lawmakers getting involved is retarded.

You don’t wield that much power. You were just ripe for the picking and the SEC picked you for reasons that have nothing to do with any powere you had or ever will have. That would be TV’s recruiting and a routine victoryalmost every year for the big time SEC West programs.Fiuther, your item 2. is precisely why there is a strong chance the rivalry won’t be picked back up other than possibly as a once in a while deal like the Arkansas series way down the road. Playing rivals from other conferences is one thing, we did it for a long time with OU. Playing rivals who haul ass and spitefully try to blame you for it is quite another thing altogether and you are right. It is a big fucking deal!

atm wanted to get away from UT, they did, leave it at that and let them stay away.

Jake,

The power thing was a joke. I was responding to the notion that we fucked over the conference. The Big 12 has been Terri Schiavo for awhile.

Kilgore Trout,

You seem ok, and like other Longhorns here, I have individuals in my family who went to A$M. That idiot you have running the show admitted A$M has been lying and misleading the rest of the conference for 18 months, and I prefer not to be involved with people or organizations who treat partners in that manner. Quite frankly, most A$M fans that I know personally deserve better than the representation you currently have.

I fervently hope that Texas doesn’t play aTm now, or in the future.

Hook ’em! Onward & Upward.

I

Ag,

Addressing point 2. history and conference voting records do not lie. Add to it that you guys were approached about sharing in a network with TX and turned it down, the myth of SEC revenue sharing and you guys don’t seem to have a problem with Florida’s third tier TV rights deal and therein lies the unbelievable hypocrisy. Just come out and say we CANT compete with Texas selling the same product because we are inferior in every way.

Because you introduced sleaze into this state and abandoned your conference partners while lying in the process we will turn out the lights for a very long time. However, we will be keeping a close watch on your antics as your school’s history of cheating speaks for itself.

It doesn’t matter what the rest of the country thinks because we all know the truth don’t we, Ag?

We may play again someday, but I doubt either school will be interested in playing that game at the end of the year again. Unless texas joins the sec.

A&M isn’t our biggest rival. Historically Aggies haven’t been much of a rival at all. You’re right, CO Ag, there’s blame all around, but most of your whiny, self-righteous fans and administrators use every opportunity to point the finger at Texas. Fuck you guys. Go get your shit packed in in the SEC. Go enjoy your mythical recruiting boost. We’ll enjoy hearing Aggy jokes told by people from Mississippi and Alabama.

I seriously think after OU we should just game plan for A&M, I’d really like to see us give them a nice Nebraska style send-off, except I’d like to drop about 50 on them.

1. The schools (read- ADs and administrations) don’t like each other right now. Know what happens in college football when two schools in different conferences hate each other? They don’t play. Think Miami/ND from the ‘80s. It was a great series that stopped, because the schools didn’t like each other. It’s not just hurt feelings. How do you ever agree to terms and conditions on a contract when you don’t trust the other guy? Think back to when Bama was mad at the Ags for stealing Fran. Would the Ags have agreed to schedule them?
2. We are ina conference. We have conference-mates that have a rivalry with the Ags every bit as long as ours. The Ags refuse to play them any more. We’re supposed to ignore the conference-mates that didn’t pitch a hissy fit and leave (Baylor and TT), in order to make those that did (Ags) happy? Is that in the best interest of the Big 12? We’re probably going to take in new conference members. We need to promote the new rivalries. Sorry, Ags. Being a good conference-mate means looking out for the interests of the whole league…kind of like how the Texas schools treated Arkansas for several years after they left the SWC.

Groundhog,

Surely you jest that the networks that Florida has – Texas has – and this UT/A&M hypothetical would have had are in anyway comparable.

I’m tired (from both sides) of the “they lied” shit. The conference has been fucked for awhile and everyone is trying to do the best for themselves. Anyone with a bargaining chip (OU, UT, A&M, Nebraska) pretending they’re clean is laughable.

OU, OSU, Arky, and LSU have set up campers in Texas for years. We didn’t introduce sleaze to the conference.

What truth? We said we’d play.

AZHorn,

I’d game plan for Ames.

I like my Barking Carnival pals the way I like many people who went to UT. We’ll play again. See you Turkey Day.

Holy fuck, TTR. I love your pieces, but how does anyone affiliated with Texas say this with a straight face:

“Being a good conference-mate means looking out for the interests of the whole league”

And:

“conference-mates that didn’t pitch a hissy fit and leave (Baylor and TT)”

To be fair, Baylor pitched a hissy fit. It’s just hard to do the leaving part when no one wants you.

Colag, you’re saying you didn’t lie last year when you said you were committed to the conference?

The sad thing for A&M is that they actually seem to be getting better at a lot of things, including football. Their academics seem to have improved dramatically (and they were already good) since I was in school in the early 90’s. And they even seemed to be heading somewhat towards normalcy. Now the Maroon curtain has been pulled back and we see that they were full blown aggy this whole time, but with even more pent up anger towards tu than normal.

FWIW, Jake and ColoAg, I think you’re both right about certain things. Both sides have acted in ways that have pissed each other off. But the Aggie brass have spent every last bit of effort to pin the reasons for their departure solely on UT and that’s a big part of the reason why the “rest of the country” has turned on Texas. Loftin and Co. have used the sports media’s willingness to leap on archetypical drama to push the UT = Darth Vader narrative to its limits. And after breaking a 10-year TV contract before the ink even dried, they have a lot of gall to ask Dodds to break game contracts for them at this point.

That being said, I’d assume the rivalry will continue eventually, but UT will not go ripping up contracts to make it happen. 2018, maybe sooner if the conference stays at 9.

Also…if every school buys into the media rights grant, the o/u should be longer than six years, and maybe much longer. I think there’s a significant chance that the 14-team SEC & ACC will demonstrate to all the large conferences that expansion may not be worth the hassle of shaking the Big 12 beehive and the arms race needs to stop. The scheduling issues with such large conferences are going to piss off some old schools and the new schools will roughly eat what they sow. Plus, if the B1G is going super they’ll have done it by 2015; that’s their next major TV contract renegotiation. So there may not be anyplace for Big 12 teams to go when the grant expires. I suppose UT could take schools to the Pac 12 under certain conditions, but with the LHN issues I think it’s safe to assume UT won’t be joining a big conference anytime soon.

No rights grant…three years, tops.

ColoradoAg – you seem like a pretty rationale guy who is informed beyond the media headlines. I’m seriously interested in hearing why you think A&M left, and why the move to the SEC is a positive for A&M.

What were we committing to? Television agreements written in pencil on toilet paper? The vague intentions of the LHN?

Calihorn, we’re all just fans. I have strong biases, but I don’t think any school can really think they’re winning some noble, moral argument in the situation. As many here can attest to, I wanted the Big 12 to work. I really did. I loved the Big 12 South. It was the best division in football many years. Unfortunately, the league could never have the identity and stability of the SEC or Big 10.

Poor conference leadership out of Dallas and very different self-interests killed this thing.

“Surely you jest that the networks that Florida has – Texas has – and this UT/A&M hypothetical would have had are in anyway comparable.”

How are they different? Because UT had the opportunity to partner with the bigger fish?

Right, ColoradoAg, A&M signed a contract while negotiating with the SEC. To make matters worse, they kept negotiating after the contracts were signed. I hope A&M is forced to pay every calculated dime in exit fees.

Enjoy your new conference. You should make up the exit fees in incremental earnings in 10+ years, assuming we don’t get a bigger contract without you. Depending on who joins the conference, that is a real possibility.

Hook ’em!

Ag,

Don’t disagree with the historical problems of the Big 12 and I’ve written as much on here in the past starting with the end of the NEB/OU rivalry game when the conference was formed.

However, your school’s statements for leaving the conference is not consistent with its voting record as a member of the Big 12. And all of your school’s grandstanding has really pissed off a lot of people. We will not be playing you guys anytime soon in anything, but we will be keeping a watchful eye on your recruiting practices.

My guess is the straw that broke the camel’s back was when Mack made it his personal mission to go into the Aggies backyard and secure commitments from the Brenham studs who were aggie leans after the questionable recruitment of Brandon Alexander.

It was at this point that the Aggies finally realized that they could never compete with Texas while selling the exact same product. After all, we were coming off a 5-7 season and you guys just won 9 games. However, all the BS that’s been pulled by Bowtie goober, it’s regents, fans, students has been nothing short of pathetic. It had nothing to do with the LHN (as florida makes $10mm a year from Fox), revenue sharing, the commissioner, Dodds, or any other excuse that’s been thrown out there.

So Aggie sees a big breasted woman making eyes at him (let’s call her SECelia). He waits ’til his wife leaves the cap off the toothpaste and his kids leave a few toys out. He promptly throws a fit and walks out on them blaming them for destroying the family and chases after SECilia.

The next November he shows up at the door with SECilia and some canned cranberry sauce expecting to be let in b/c spending Thanksgiving together is a tradition? Yea right.

Wow.
UT – A&M became a rivalry again.

Colag, I get that you guys did what you thought was best for your school and I do think it will work out well for you in certain aspects. I think that a lot of horns fans are getting a little fed up that we’re being portrayed as the bad guys in this whole thing when the facts spell out another story. I’m not saying that you were portraying anything but you happened to be the closest target on a horns website.

FUCK a bunch of aggy.

Horncasting -

The easy story in A&M leaving is that it is just escaping the shadow of Texas. Maisel, Forde, ESPN others, etc. love this easy story and clickable headline. I won’t deny that is part of the equation. I think it goes deeper though. The conference is in shambles and has had atrocious leadership. A&M had an out to a stable league that happens to be a decent fit culturally.

The “Aggies won’t compete” thing is a bit short-sighted and kind of insulting to the brand of football that has been played throughout the course of the Big 12. Hopefully we can keep up with the Ole Miss and Miss States of the world. And yes, I’ve toured the facilities and been to a game at every SEC West school.

As for the TV deals being different, surely someone in Belmont had to think there would be rival push back with the high school games/highlights antics. If not, well, that is some tasty hubris.

Groundhog -

“all of your school’s grandstanding has really pissed off a lot of people.”

Y’all are “the Joneses” right? Well most of the world thinks the Joneses are assholes.

“we will be keeping a watchful eye on your recruiting practices.”

Thanks, McGruff Crime Dog.

Mack owned Brenham during the Fran years. You think Brandon fucking Alexander was the straw that broke the camel’s back in realignment? You realize presidents and shit make these choices, right?

Saturday is October 1. We have games going on right now. I am going to choose to enjoy those.

The commish really did suck though. Any good commissioner makes sure these kind of arguments – arguments which undoubtably happened in other conferences when IMG started paying top-ten-caliber schools millions for branding rights – are played out behind closed doors and not in the press. Beebe can swing all the lucrative TV contracts he wants but if signees won’t feel obliged to stick around for more than a year of the contract and they feel free to take their case to the press as a first resort, he’s worthless.

Good point as usual, Dagga.

To the rest, I came to BC years ago for the good discourse. Well done on your part.

Read the Viewing Guide

#shamelessplug

Yeah, maybe Texas should have gotten its way when they didn’t want Beebe.

It was the recruitment of Malcolm Brown and Timothy Cole who were heavy aggy leans. Yes, I realize who makes decisions. Thanks for pointing it out, but it’s been reported that the Aggy coaches think they can win more recruiting battles if they go to the SEC and have something different to sell kids. It was a football decision and that’s why A&M left pure and simple.

“As for the TV deals being different, surely someone in Belmont had to think there would be rival push back with the high school games/highlights antics. If not, well, that is some tasty hubris.”

I get the highshool games problem (in fact I stated as much when it was first brought up) even though I’d love to watch more games on tv. But as that has been addressed by the NCAA, is there really any difference with the Florida network (other than the obvious price tag).

Thanks for the replies by the way. Admittedly most of the info. I get on this subject is slanted towards the Horns so I appreciate reasonable responses from another point of view.

Florida is not in bed with a company in ESPN that many feel blur the lines on journalism/entertainment.

To be fair, I would never fault you for taking that deal. It is extremely lucrative and builds the already amazing Longhorn brand. Just don’t act surprised when conference partners get pissy when they see how other conferences operate.

Horncasting – good stuff. Thanks for the good takes. I try to be reasonable.

2. Texas fans (and maybe some Big 12 minions) will think A&M destroyed the rivalry. The rest of the country will not.

News flash – the rest of the country will not think that…because most of them don’t give a flying fuck about it or even know it exists.

This game didn’t start to get major network TV coverage until the 2000’s, during which time Texas A&M, through a combination of on-field suckage and lack of a huge national following, did not exactly pull huge ratings Check the Niesen ratings – they’re lucky to put up a 3-4 most years for the prime-time night games (compare that with 6 for the Red River Shootout which was during the early-mid afternoon hours when half the country was still asleep in many cases.)

ColoradoAg, you seem pretty reasonable and I wish the hostility toward you would not be so overt here. Many Texas fans are tired of the finger pointing. I think the rivalry would have continued had the Aggies just left last year or walked away like Colorado. The war on LHN days before leaving strikes me as petty and vindictive. Given the class and grace of the Aggie exit, I think a cooling off perod is in order.

ColAgs,

You’ve gone on and on about how a&m hasn’t acted hypocritical, but then you use the inequalities of the big 12 as a reason a&m got pissy. The same inequalities a&m pushed for and supported at every step of the way?

The naked hypocrisy of the entire a&m fanbase and administration is beyond the pale.

Also, I’d like to put out the Jared Diamond argument here: a lot of the driving force behind the Big 12’s realignment woes is more a matter of simple things like geographic and demographic advantages playing themselves out than powerful people doing big rude things to the helpless masses. ColoAg’s right – the Big 12 isn’t stable by design because it’s no one’s ideal situation. Instead it’s merely a Nash equilibrium for schools constrained by historical, political, financial, geographic and demographic limits, and thus can be undone at any time by a change in the constraints. And there’s lots of reasons to believe that without those constraints, the schools in the conference would have very little to hold them together; this isn’t the Big 10 or SEC, where the conference members mostly have similar profiles and missions and can collectivize their power in a strong commissioner.

Lots of people seem convinced that the outlandish money of 21’st century college football should be sufficient to overwhelm those old limits and obliterate the conference. It has certainly looked that way at times, and when the conference wobbles it’s normal to expect schools to figure out how to secure a good landing spot. But even though cash has changed the dynamics of leverage in the conference, a lot of the old contraints have risen up to reassert themselves and the influx of cash has brought with it new contraints. Aggressively seeking change in the present circumstances is harder than I think anyone anticipated.

Point being, this isn’t a battle of wills between the forces of good and evil. It’s a chaotic unstable system that is bound to suffer unpredictable breakdowns without heavy-handed top-down control, and despite people’s characterization of UT as the controlling master of the Big 12, no such power exists. Texas has historically been empowered to pursue its own rights precisely to the degree that the other conference members have allowed it, and stepping past those boundaries just once brought mayhem. So I don’t blame A&M, Nebraska, etc. for wanting to leave. I just wish they’d be accountable for their decisions and their role in shaping the Big 12 they abandoned, rather than justifying the dissolution of hundred-year traditions with fanciful Machiavellian conspiracies about Texas dominating the world of college football via sub-regional cable.

to respond to some things mentioned above — and at the risk of breaking rule #3:

1. dan branch is indeed the chair of hi-ed on the house side. judy zaffirini is the chair on the senate side. Branch went to undergrad in OK — believe he went to law school at smu. Z is UT through and through. if you’ve followed the recent Perry hi-ed reforms, she’s been completely supportive of Powers and the UT establishment. and despite being a member of the minority party, she will fuck you up. she keeps 6 binders stacked on her desk on the senate floor at all times. none of us know what they’re for. but seriously, the R’s don’t fuck with her unless they have to. she’s a pain in the ass.

2. the guy I read was “promising to file a bill” is tommy williams, who represents the woodlands, conroe and then southeast down to Beaumont. williams is an aggie and is about as establishment as they come. he chairs transportation/homeland security and serves on finance. in sum (and channeling some Tubs), he’s got “some stroke.”

take it a step further and witness the R’s that aren’t coming back next session: harris, shapiro, ogden & mike jackson. and there may be more. translation: power gained for a guy like williams. and of course, when considering williams in the 83rd session, you gotta talk about the power vacuum of perry & dewhurst. imo, the dew gone, perry back. meaning we’ll need an interim lite guv. williams WILL be on the short list of senators who will be considered for the post. especially if dickheads like michael quinn sullivan get their way — meaning an “open and public” selection, as opposed to an orderly establishment/backroom selection (the way it “should” be). side note, interim lite guv reps his district and presides over the senate, meaning they set the agenda for voting and vote, unlike an elected lite guv.

so what I’m getting at here is that if williams is serious about this (he may be), this could happen. you may be saying “but hold up, won’t this bill have to go thru hi-ed and zaffirini?” yeah, normally. probably would with the dew routing bills. but the lite guv’s office has discretion in routing bills to committees — a power that is unchecked. if williams, or a sympathetic interim lt guv, has the gavel, it could get routed to a sympathetic chairman and quickly get out of committee. and once it gets to the floor, you just never know. horsetrading will commence, arms get twisted, etc. for many, it would prob just depend on local public opinion (newsflash: the public is not always the most educated bunch).

I’m not saying it’s going to happen. I don’t even know if the leg has such authorities. but the cards could potentially line up for the bill to be filed, heard and to at least get out of the senate.

all this said, it would still have to get through the house side. and with all the fucking cowboys working on that side of the building and the turnover that will take place in that body, there’s no predicting what might happen.

Great points, DR.

Just be accountable for the current shaping of the Big 12 in which you currently reside.

I’m not trying to be a spiteful dick. I said it earlier – I wanted the Big 12 to work. I like ignoring my family members and flipping on a night game on Thanksgiving with tons of eyes and enjoying the show. I know a couple Sooners. I know countless Horns and I get along well with almost all of them.

I don’t want to drop A&M from the schedule because I’m “pissed” or that we need to cut them off at the needs — it just makes good business sense.

I said it before. The Penn State-Pittsburgh game used to be a big deal in Pennsylvania — and it was played on Thanksgiving weekend. Then Penn State goes to the Big 10 and Pitt goes to the Big East. Penn State drops them from their schedule begining in 2000.

I believe Pitt and Penn State have a home-and-home begining around 2017.

That kind of break works for me.

ColoAg – no, Florida’s in bed with News Corp, which never ever slants the truth to help their bottom line.

Fact is, 99% of TV is owned by sinister companies out for nothing other than increasing their own ratings. Disney, Viacom, Comcast, Time Warner, News Corp. Want your games televised? Pick your poison. One will fellate you, the other four will hate you.

CBS’ murderer’s row of UT critics has been really funny to watch during all of this mess; it’s like they crowd around the water cooler inventing new hyperboles about Texas’ evil-ness every morning. At least ESPN has Matt Forde; no one’s even trying to see both sides of the issue at CBSSportsline.com. Why? If you don’t think ESPN’s eternal battle with them over SEC TV rights has anything to do with it, you’re a sucker and a fool.

Try this: Google “viacom evil” and see what the recommended searches are at the bottom of the page.

The Ags say they have a 100 year vision. Their vision is based on deceit. Lie that you pledge to be in the Big 12 while you secretly are plotting your way out. Their 100 year vision will be a 100 year curse. Welcome to SEC Hell.

ColoAg – I don’t think you’re a spiteful dick, fwiw. I never said you’re spiteful :)

And yeah, while I think UT’s behavior in the conference has been generally fine over the years they have made some missteps recently and with the LHN in particular. The goal with LHN from the beginning should have been to stay in the Big 12 for awhile and see how it works out. But that requires a happy Big 12, and the whole LHN thing – all the details, including high school games and branding and compensation and whatnot, and not just the generalities presented to the conference in 2010 – should have been run by the conference members (particularly A&M and OU, the remaining power-centers of the conference) in advance and not via news clippings and radio clips on message boards. If possible, reasonable compromises should have been made to keep everyone at the table rather than fleeing for the hills. If not, the exploration of other conference possibilities could have then been handled in a cooperative manner. None of that should have been done via the press where everyone’s reputation is under scrutiny.

That didn’t happen, and Texas’ handling of LHN should be blamed for some of that. But I see that as a simple failure to see those consequences in advance ($300 mil is a pretty blinding figure, fwiw, and the harsh response by A&M was not as predictable to us – or to me, anyway – as most Aggies seem to think) and not a dastardly attempt to put everyone else in their place. But those blowups sometimes happen when you’re in an unstable situation with no meaningful coordinating body. Shit just gets crazy sometimes.

ColoradoAg – just go somewhere else and enjoy your “games”, will ya?

Your kind is not welcome here anymore. Beat it, hick.

Needed to be said IMO. You people are just bad news.

What we are seeing in this round is the second tier teams flexing a bit of muscle with a complicit media looking to spin it as theater rather than business. People talk ‘stable conferences’ and laud ‘sharing TV dollars’ but these are ultimately bullshit arguments. Hell, the Pac couldn’t take us because they just railroaded UCLA and a weakened USC into a new revenue sharing program. I bet that deal doesn’t go through if the LHN deal happened a year earlier.

If the LHN takes off you know ESPN will taking that revenue to try and entice other big name programs with a similar opportunity. Will the SEC be such a stable place when Bama, Florida, Georgia, and LSU demand to have their own networks and have it show a football game or two? They don’t likely have the votes to get their way (we all know A&M won’t vote for it…unless ESPN offers them a network too!) and when the big dogs don’t get their way instability ensues.

Ricky – good points. If LHN works out, you’d have to think with the incredible intensity of fan interest in Alabama that the Crimson Tide would get the next offer.

Spaceghost:

No actually, “his” kind are welcome here.

The kind that are willing to have a real dialogue, (mis-guided as we may believe it to be) and if you can’t tell the difference between Colorado Ag and the trolls, then you need to improve your reading comprehension skills.

So how many times have you broken up with a girlfriend that let still let you come over to get a convenience F*ck? You rocket scientists made the decision to leave now deal with the consequences.

Maybe Miss St. will play you on Thanksgiving but I’m pretty sure we won’t.

txsa -

I think as long as we don’t get into a diversion over what ‘should’ happen, discussing what might or could happen is ok…

Yes, Branch went to undergrad at some christian school in OK, then law school at SMU (http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/member-page/?district=108)

I agree that Zaffirini is a force to be reckoned with and my general exposure to the lobby teams that work with Texas are every bit as competent and knowledgeable as one would expect them to be. That said, the actual halls of power at the legislature simply do not seem to be populated with Texas Exes the way they once were. Absent some personal reason to say no, ,IF Perry is back in the Governor’s chair come 2013 and IF he wants it, it’s hard for me to see Branch (or whoever turns out to be turning it down on the floor and equally hard to see it ultimately be a deal breaker to some larger funding bill (or another run at 10% rule, or whatever).

But with that said, Texas has the opportunity to set its schedule for whatever its “normal” window is (my general understand is 4 years for this, but I have that on no real authority) in 2012, and one would expect this game to come back sometime around 2017/18? So, while I’d generally predict passage at this point (on the dual assumptions that Perry will want it and Texas will have other fish to fry), it would ultimately impact the schedule in roughly the same timeframe people here talk about anyway.

Space Ghost -
 
You don’t run the blog. Shut up.

Oh, I think ColoradoAG and Kilgore Trout try their best to be reasonable on a rivals blog. But, they surely expect recriminations very little sympathy towards their explanations of the aggie intents.

Here is my take, for what it is worth.
1. The Aggies reneged on their committment – and I don’t give a flip if they signed anything or not. This is Texas and your word is expected to mean something. What is even more incriminating is they were making their committment while planning and fully intending to bolt.

2. Their mantra has also been “Well, this conference is unstable and the SEC is not.” BULLSHIT (in capital letters) – what has Texas A&M ever done, EVER, to help stablilize the Big 12? I understand they have complained, bellyached, whined and sniveled about it – but what the hell have they done to help prop it up? (This, by-the-way, applies to more schools than just the aggies). Here is what they have done – they have run like frightened rabbit. Don’t like the description? Prove me wrong!

3. They, also, trumpet that the SEC will help their cause in the recruiting arena. I don’t believe this, but let’s say it is true. Why would UT do anything to help A&M promote themselves or their new conference by giving them more exposure OR $ by playing them?

There is an old saying – “You made your bed, now you have to lie in it.”

tx2step: generally agree with everything you said. particularly and unfortunately, that UT doesn’t quite have the swag it once did in the building.

that said, I feel like the members are typically deferential to institutions of higher ed when it comes to stuff like this.

additionally, we’ll likely be starting the 2013 session with at least a $5 billion shortfall that will need to be accounted for with a supplemental appropriations bill. and that’s just with the unfunded healthcare costs. if sales tax projections are off again for whatever reason, it could be a much bigger hole. enter rainy day fund.

given this context and the likelihood of other divisive social issues on the legislative agenda (ie sanctuary cities), there’s a good chance nobody will be in the mood to deal with any such action.

bottom line, institutions of higher ed have typically had 100% autonomy in making football schedules. not sure the leg wants to get in the football schedule making business.

I have never heard it said better than this – well done, Dagga Roosta.

“So I don’t blame A&M, Nebraska, etc. for wanting to leave. I just wish they’d be accountable for their decisions and their role in shaping the Big 12 they abandoned, rather than justifying the dissolution of hundred-year traditions with fanciful Machiavellian conspiracies about Texas dominating the world of college football via sub-regional cable.”

Texas A&M has a history of making bad decisions – ask J.C. Slocum.

Sigh – R.C. SLOCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!

txsa -

I think budget is definitely an X-factor. My hunch (and it’s really only that) is that the bills themselves will die in committee but lawmakers will find some time to adopt the floor amendment precisely because it’s easy. It allows them to talk about tradition, the importance of in-state rivalries, etc, and may provide an alluring if temporary diversion from cutting off funding for state services. But, my hunch also is that Texas will have the juice to push it down the road, which is likely all they want to do anyway. In the end, as many others have said, the game will come back; it will just take a 4-7 year break before it does.

On the plus side, College Station this year is going to be crazy fun.

Finally, before I forget: All aggies other than Ag96 and ColoradoAg? Morons. Complete knee-biters.

Great article on what the SEC should expect with the addition of A&M: http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1271189

Just a taste of what you can expect — “No, they do not need a bathroom break. Those unfamiliar with the Aggies may be surprised — and even shocked — when they see yell leaders and members of the corps doubled over and squeezing their … uh … groin area on field goals and extra points. That’s just the Aggie way of showing that they, too, feel the pressure the players do.”

This attempt by Aggies in the legislature I think paints a better picture of Aggie motives. For all the talk of Texas as Darth Vader and Deloss running the conference, the Texas legislature has done more to hold back the University of Texas over the past several decades than anything Texas has done to destabilize conferences or harm A&M. And I won’t even go into the funding reductions which, of course, make these football issues seem minor.

We got saddled with our three Texas brethren through legislative pressure and now we have Aggie elements in the legislature perhaps looking to force us to play them even though their supposed reason for leaving the Big 12 was to get away from us. The Aggies want to push whatever buttons necessary to try and bring us down to their level. They want a new conference where cheating is largely ignored in hopes of getting back to their last era of fueled-by-cheating dominance and now they want the legislature to hold our funding hostage (what are the penalties if the Deloss just says, ‘No’?) to make sure the Aggies get a chance to showcase their dominance on a yearly basis.

I hope Ags that come here and act reasonable do the reasonable thing and demand that these legislators stand down.

No legislation will make it through.

Fun exercise:

Any good negotiator knows their next best option is. So, hypothetically, the Big 12 falls apart (very real), what does Texas do? What happens to the LHN? Independence sounds FUN! What are the perils? Where do non-revenue sports play?

Show your work.

Colorado Ag is good people, he’s reasonable and he can actually see two sides to an argument. Not that I have any pull, but I appreciate his contributions. I still think he skis like a Texan in a starter jacket though.

Aggies are absolutely within their rights to go to another conference if they think it will improve their fortunes. In fact, they have been in a conference with Texas for over a century and it hasn’t work out so well for them. So why wouldn’t they try something new.?

Now, I personally think the SEC will be harder to win than the Big 12, and if they don’t win they may exacerbate their recruiting issues. In a worst case scenario they may cause our recruiting fortunes to fall as well. (This is a far cry from the early Mack Brown day’s when he was encouraging kids to stay in Texas).

That said, during the process Aggie has displayed a rather sad degree of desperation what with Loftin’s “This is America. . .” whining followed quickly by an aggie senator trying to compel UT to play aggie via the law. Are we not still in America? Or are Aggies actually that stupid. Not to mention trying to scapegoat the LHN. The Lonestar network actually could have done for Aggie what they hope the SEC will do, i.e. give them a great advantage in recruiting, not over Texas, but certainly over OU which would have been good for us both. $Bill byrne fucked that up and ATM will regret it for the next 25 years. I can’t imagine why that guy still has a job.

Seriously Colorado Ag, you have to be thinking there are better candidates to lead your athletic department right?

One final word on the subject before my fucking head explodes——the Texas Legislature is not, I repeat not—-going to make Texas schedule Texas A&M. Not now nor in the future. Why would they? Do any of you (other than Dagga and maybe a few more) have any idea how hard it is to get a bill passed during that process, especially one that no one gives a rat’s ass about when there is important business to address in such a limited time. Over one thousand pieces of legislation get filed every session, almost all of which are DOA because they are pure political pandering. The people who file them know that and their fellow members know it. This is about as textbook an example of such pandering as there could ever be. It’s just a big old sound bite for two Aggies—-nothing more to see there, please move on.

Co Ag, for the record, I like you and love your viewing guides. In fact if you’ll check the comments section on them, you’ll see that I’ve said as much. But don’t for one minute think aTm is our biggest rival. And don’t for a minute think that there won’t be some long lasting consequences—-not only for you defecting for reasons other than you publicly state, e.g., not just admitting that you were completely looking out for your own interests. But mostly for trying to put it all on us.

Oh, and your Chacellor decided to take one last shot at Big Brother on your way out the door with his bullshit posturing today. I’ve known John Sharp for several years—-well before he fucked up what was a very promising political career when he ignored his team’s advice and ran for Governor because of his ego. I led my employers’ efforts to raise a lot of money for him when he first ran against Perry and we also ran a very complimentary magazine article about him. He’s an interesting and entertaining guy, but he can get a little too cute sometimes and he lpves to get his digs in. He got one in today, although he did a little gulping toward the end. We’ll get ours in as well. You should expect it and accept it, like our Admin has very calmly and relatively quietly, IMO, listened to your childish bullshit and accepted your leaving. We knew you were going, just like you should have known we weren’t going to enable you to prosper from it by continuing to play you. It’s really that simple. All due respect, run along and deal with it. And should anyone misunderstand, I don’t mean “run along” to you personally from this blog. I’d sorely miss your sense of humor and the first rate viewing guide.

Sorry—-a little over the top on the Lege thing after reading my own rant. I just thought it was getting more play than it deserved. My bad!

Assuming the LHN is as successful as ESPN seems to think it will be, we will have a even bigger asset to offer conferences, or to explore independence with.

If it is unsuccessful, then there is no impediment to us joining the PAC BIG whatever conference.

Either way Texas will be one of the haves in conference alignment.

I did think it was interesting how vehemently CU opposed expansion of the PAC 12 though. They really, really, don’t want to play us in conference any more.

What did Sharp say today?

That’s a good question, Ag. If the Big 12 falls apart outside of A&M and the SEC getting sued(hahaha), I would like to hear Texas’ long term plans. We have heard ND whispers, but I am tired of hearing this pie in the sky stuff. Is an annual game with the domers for real? We should strengthen our strained relationship with OU as the game in Dallas is irreplaceable. My guess is that TX will be aligned with ND and OU in some way moving forward and these will be marquee games on the schedule on an annual basis. But I would like to hear from some of the insiders on this blog.

FWIW, I didn’t like Texas’ attitude or the conference’s attitude or indifference towards Nebraska leaving a year ago. The minute they left the conference was fragile. Again, this conference should not have been a failure. Neb’s behavior, however, doesn’t excuse the bullshit coming out of college station about what has really happened. You guys might be better off in the long run or you might not. Time will tell, but A&M wanted to chart its own course so goodbye and good luck.

Now, I personally think the SEC will be harder to win than the Big 12, and if they don’t win they may exacerbate their recruiting issues.

Totally agree with this, but I also think we’ll be more competitive than many expect.

Our program was in sorry shape with Fran, Sherman has rebuilt the trenches and actually developed the talent we had in the program while greatly improving recruiting. Whether he has the killer instinct to take us to a top tier program remains to be seen, but I think we can hang as an mid to upper pack team a la Arkansas and occasionally play spoiler.

This weekend’s game will be a nice chance to make a statement either way.

did you work for SG&A jake?

Also, re: Florida’s network, it’s a pretty different entity from the LHN as I understand it.

Florida’s “network” is Sun Sports, a non-Florida branded network that also shows pro baseball and basketball as well as high school sports and other third tier SEC games, other Florida college games, and lots of fishing shows. It’s simply an outlet for third tier rights, much more akin to something like Fox Sports SW than the LHN.

2 thoughts -

ColoradoAg continues to have a tough crowd.

Barking Carnival has gone through the 7 stages of grief in 1 night.

ColoAg – In your hypothetical, I think it depends entirely on how the Big 12 falls apart, right? Thing is, I think that’s a very limited group of scenarios if UT isn’t the instigator.

OU, OSU, and TTU ain’t going nowhere without UT. The Pac 12 made it clear that they couldn’t go West. I don’t think the SEC wants any of them either. Right now, there’s good football teams aplenty in the SEC and expansion would only be useful for a larger TV & recruiting footprint. Of the Big 12 teams only Mizzou would add that kind of value.

So let’s say Mizzou leaves. I don’t think that sinks the conference by itself though, not at this point. Eight is enough. Seven is the killer, because then you get put on AQ notice and the conference is officially on life support.

Thing is, how do you get to seven if Texas stubbornly stays put? The Big East is now officially trash in football; they should rename it the Mountain East Conference. That’s become the destination Big 12 teams want most desperately to avoid. The B1G wants no Big 12 program other than Texas and maybe Mizzou on a good hair day. The Pac 12 will take schools but only if Texas comes along. The SEC likely agrees with that approach.

I could see Kansas going to the ACC, maybe. But they’d have a “Kansas State problem”, plus Kansas is well over a thousand miles from the Atlantic Coast and fans of sensible nomenclature would start burning couches in the streets.

But even if Mizzou and/or KU leave? Hello BYU and/or West Virginia. Both schools have larger fanbases than you’d think and I think they’d join if they feel both UT and OU will stick around for awhile. BYU needs some quality schedule filler and an AQ chance and Wes Vaginny is crapping its overalls at the thought of staying in the Big East. Pitt and the ’Cuse totally screwed those mullets over.

So really I don’t think UT goes independent unless (a) the conference tries to ban the LHN altogether or (b) UT decides independence is in fact a better option than being in an AQ conference. I personally can’t imagine either one will happen.

UT may also decide to preemptively bolt to another conference. But based on the Texas brass’ behavior to date, I seriously doubt that would happen anytime soon. Developing the LHN and maintaining stability will be the focus for a few years.

I’d look for Mizzou to keep flirting with the SEC, but I’m also thinking the SEC ultimately prefers to convince an ACC school to pony up some cash to switch. Either way, once that’s done I’d expect the media grant thingy to be drawn up and signed in short order and BYU to join the league in football shortly thereafter. Then maybe five years of blissful normalcy before it all goes haywire again.

The Big 12 is dead! Long live the Big 12!

@ wherelend:

No. I was Business Development Director and Legislative Laison for a Firm that did business with state agencies on a highly competitive level, including The Comptroller’s Office.

@Groundhog:

Basically Sharp said Aggy wasn’t afraid to play us anywhere at anytime. He backed off that when asked if they’d play us at home every year on LHN.

@ English Ag:

The tough crowd is of his own making and I’m not discerning a lot of grief unless it’s the grief we’re giving him. Frankly, I think Texas and its followers went directly to closure, followed closely by moving on, especially on the matter of T+1. I can’t say the same for your side, however.

Dear EnglishAg -

Grief isn’t the right word. In the grand scheme of things, A&M means as much to us as Baylor does. We’ve beaten Baylor 73 times and we’ve beaten A&M 75 times.

We’ll miss kicking your ass and taking your lunch money. But for Texas, the revenue from the aggie game can be easily replaced. It doesn’t bother us that A&M finally left home. What really irritated us was how you aggies left the Big 12, barking and shitting all over the carpet. The BIg 12 will be a stronger conference without A&M. It’s not like the aggies contributed any bowl victories.

No, it’s not grief. It’s irritation that we wasted our time and energy trying to help A&M become a real university and legitimate rival. And in the end, all of that hard work was for nothing. A&M could have been a contender, instead you aggies decided to go back to smoking crack with your dumbass friends at the trailor park. Have fun sticking your thumbs up each other’s butts. Gig ’em.

ag96 – fwiw I think Aggy will be competitive in the SEC, as you say. I actually think your target range is above Arkansas – more like Auburn or a better-run Tennessee, a team that can make a very serious run if you put it all together. That’s hardly a bad place to be. Arkansas is closer to a worst-case scenario; possible, but not likely given that you’re in Texas and they’re not.

EnglishAg – It’s an illusion. The denial people never read the comments, the anger people wear out shortly into it, the depressed and the bargainers stick around a little longer, and the accepters are mostly West Coast healing crystal types who stay up late and smoke copious amounts of marijuana while spreading peace on the Internet. Except me, I’m not on the West Coast.

One thing to remember- it’s in TAMU’s interest for the Big 12 to dissolve (would save them millions) and it’s also in TAMU’s interest for UT to falter as a sports program (they have made a huge institutional bet on the SEC, and they know they need to supplant UT as a top recruiter). Those that think their president’s and chancellor’s remarks are originating from the excitement of the moment are mistaken. If the Big 12 holds, and they have to pay, they will still need to replace UT at the top of the perception heat for their SEC gamble (which their top people are all invested in) to work.

I did think it was interesting how vehemently CU opposed expansion of the PAC 12 though. They really, really, don’t want to play us in conference any more.

From what I understand, it was more that they didn’t want to play in a division without any California schools, which seemed like a real possibility if Texas + 3 joined the Arizona schools, Utah, and CU in the Flyover division. It would negatively impact their recruiting. They need access to California players if they want to be more than a conference doormat.

I actually think your target range is above Arkansas – more like Auburn or a better-run Tennessee

Very optimistic imo unless you’re only referring to Tennessee of the past few years. Tennessee is one of the most successful football programs of all time and has a national brand. Auburn without Cam is more reasonable, but only if the Aggies take their recruiting up another notch. A&M is recruiting like a top-20 team right now, and there are six SEC schools that are doing considerably better.

Well, I’ll miss playing the Aggies. If the powers-that-be decide that it’s not in the best interest of the program, I won’t complain. That’s their job. But I’m secure enough in my masculinity to be vulnerable in front of my Aggie brothers.

Ags, you’ll always mean more to me than Baylor. I’ll miss you.

A&M should be able to achieve non-cheating-Auburn levels of success. Does anyone know what that level looks like?

Help me understand the “national brand” the Aggies expect to garner from playing in the SEC. It can’t just be SEC membership, b/c that really hasn’t helped Kentucky, Miss, Miss St, Vandy …

I would think brand is helped most by:
1. Winning, especially on TV – at a glance, seems easier in the Big12.
2. Compelling/Transcendent players — Who is on the Aggie Mt Rushmore for football?
3. Compelling system or coach — Maybe if DeRuyter were head coach.
4. Compelling games — A&M wins in these games in the SEC (LSU. Florida, Bama) will be viewed as upsets. What A&M games (win or lose) are memorable nationally?
5. Fans/Traditions/Marketing — A&M has this, although I don’t think maroon is a great color and they should embrace “t-shirt” fans rather than mock them.

Oh how I do love delusion / illusion. ColoradoAg probably does fit in more with those west coast types – maybe that is more his target market.

The scenarion Horncasting points out up top is very true. Whle the stereotype remains, the university has changed. Sadly the vocal minority seem to be the people running the show. ope.ed.gov says that this year, A+M has more students in CS than UT has in Austin. While it is a work in progress, A+M also has a hefty athletic budget – twice that of our much vaunted potential replacement BYU.

Despite those facts, I would like to thank Maroon Carrots for his attempts to help A&M become a real university and legitimate rival. Not sure that the SEC will be quite so kind, but at least there will be a more equal revenue share.

I do think the talk of A&M becoming the new MSU is silly. They’re not going to get buried in the SEC, it’s just that ascending to the top is going to be pretty tough. Over the three recruiting class span of 2010-2012 (class of 2012 is obviously still ongoing) A&M has landed 19 four or five star players, LSU 37, Auburn 40, and Bama 43. That’s a pretty sizable talent gap that’s going to play out over the first few years A&M is in the SEC.

But A&M’s recruiting is showing signs of getting better. A&M’s 2010 class was pretty meh for me and 2011 was putrid. But 2012 is solid and they’ve got some quality early 2013 commits (though both of these classes are slanted towards offense and light on defense). Right now I’m pegging their mean SEC West finish for the next five years or so at #4.

Any Aggie fan thinking this rivalry will pack pack up within the next 20 years are kidding themselevs. It is not in our interests to keep it going. And I really could care less if A&M has convinced the mainstream media who is at fault for that.

The bottom line – A&M needs the rivalry to continue because of how much it defines their school and their traditions. Losing it would hurt them tremendously and we are not in the business of helping out someone who is not even a conference mate of ours.

“Despite those facts, I would like to thank Maroon Carrots for his attempts to help A&M become a real university and legitimate rival. Not sure that the SEC will be quite so kind, but at least there will be a more equal revenue share.”

EnglishAg, please elaborate on this point.

Equal Revenue Share? Do you dumbasses know how your school voted regarding Tier 1 and Tier 2 rights in the Big 12? Apparently, Bowtie doesn’t either according to his comments on Monday.

My heart will always have a fond place saved for the Aggies, and I’ll tell you why. In 2006, as I trekked towards the Rose Bowl to watch VY lay an ass-whuppin on USC, I saw an Aggie in the parking lot, wearing a maroon shirt. On the back was the Longhorn logo, with bandaids holding the sawn-off horns in place. The words: “One game only. Hook ’Em.” I still get goosebumps thinking about that shirt.

That said, I’m annoyed at Aggy behavior with regard to this move. Maroon Carrots and I usually respectfully disagree, but he said something so perfectly, I had to borrow it: “It doesn’t bother us that A&M finally left home. What really irritated us was how you aggies left the Big 12, barking and shitting all over the carpet.” Colorado Ag and ag96, that’s not you. It’s the morons wearing your colors. You’re welcome and respected contributors to this blog, and I hope you’ll keep doing so in the future.

But Aggies, for the love of GOD (or dog, I know you like dogs), you can’t set up your move as a “We’re breaking out of UT’s shadow!” rallying cry, and then whisper quietly “but gosh, we’d really like to keep playing you guys…” That’s just dumb. You’ve deliberately and malevolently cast aside 100+ years of conference alignment with UT, and made out like UT was the Man holding you down. Make up your mind. You either need us, or you don’t. Your conference alignment indicates that you don’t.

So if you’d like to continue this rivalry, you’re now in a position where you want something a bit more than we do. To get it, you’ll have to give us something we want. Decide what you’re willing to part with, and make us an offer. As an aside, I’d be shocked and appalled if your administration hadn’t given this contingency at least SOME thought to this point, but the noises I’m hearing coming out of College Station seem to indicate otherwise. I chuckle gleefully at the idea that you guys thought you were as important to us as we are to you, and if that misperception comes back to bite y’all in the ass, you’ve really got nobody to blame but yourselves.

All of this ‘they lied’ stuff is bullshit. DeLoss lies every time he says he is committed to the Big XII. Texas is committed to The Longhorn Network and to their own interest as an athletic department and university. And, that is, by God, how it should be. Capitalism, fuck yeah.

The reason that Texas will not play A&M for some period of time is because they went and did something we told them not to, so fuck them we are not going to contribute to their doubling down on 8 with a King showing. We are not going to do this because we are not fucking stupid, and we are tired of the consequences of the stupidity of our fellow conference members.

If you dumb sonsabitches had listened to us, we would be poaching teams to go super conference behind the enormously profitable Big XII network. So, since the PAC 12 has proven to the state of Oklahoma that the entire conference is on the dole, you must mind the step children while you suck at the teat of Texas.

No, Aggies, not you. We know you like it.

“Not sure that the SEC will be quite so kind, but at least there will be a more equal revenue share.”

The revenue sharing from media is about to be exactly the same in the Big 12 as the SEC (once the University presidents approve the change, which was already approved by the AD’s last year).

In terms of TOTAL atheltic dept revenues, A&M last year would have ranked 10th when compared to the rest of the SEC. The gap between them and Alabama is close to $50 million.

I just can’t fathom where all of this “equality” mantra is coming from, or why it is assumed to be true by so many people.

Dagga – I think you’re right on, if recruiting keeps up I think we’ll be in good shape.

The revenue model in the SEC looks almost identical now to the revenue model for the Big 12.

Do not confuse Aggies with facts.

I heard about those shirts TexanNick. I loved the idea of Aggies being Texans first and foremost and I know if the tables were turned I would have been cheering like crazy for the Aggies. HOWEVER, virtually all of my aggie friends were pulling for the Trojans in that game and the Tide in the last one. No appeal to Texas schools first would get them off their hatred.

Nothing in my life has put Aggie’s unreasonable derangement of Texas, cult like adherence to myth and dogma, and childlike trust in everything and anything anti-Texas in starker contrast for me than this conference realignment drama. It has made it extremely difficult to ever pull for the aggies again.

“The easy story in A&M leaving is that it is just escaping the shadow of Texas. Maisel, Forde, ESPN others, etc. love this easy story and clickable headline. I won’t deny that is part of the equation. I think it goes deeper though. The conference is in shambles and has had atrocious leadership. A&M had an out to a stable league that happens to be a decent fit culturally.”

The B12-2 wasn’t in shambles until A&M to SEC became public (again). Nebraska and Colorado didn’t make or break the conference and the mediocre B12N finally died. The B12 is undeniably a football power without them (basketball is even better in the B12-2), and if A&M was committed, we’d potentially pick up BYU and another team to strengthen the conference further.

Besides, in the event that the B12 collapsed in the future, the SEC would still be sure to save a spot for A&M. Don’t sell yourself short — A&M didn’t need to worry about the stability of the B12.

Therefore, do you really believe that A&M made a long term, potentially billion dollar decision to ‘escape Texas’ shadow’ and the ‘cultural fit’ with the SEC? It had nothing to do with the A&M athletic department being cash strapped? Nothing to do with the increased TV revenue of the SEC?

This decision was all about money. When the TV contracts are renegotiated, A&M will make more of it, and this is the reason the decision is justifiable. This made the long-term budget spreadsheets happy. On-field performance leading to brand growth (escaping TX shadow), and the associated money is unknown.

I’m not even going to bother addressing the cultural fit explanation. While it’s funny to picture A&M making this decision without financial modeling, purely out of spite and ‘cultural fit’, I don’t believe they’re that dumb.

All that said, I’ve got nothing against money driven decisions. Colorado, Nebraska, and A&M have made the right choices for the long term financial health of their universities. I’d be very nervous about on-field performance if I were an Aggie, though.

I would be “for” continuing the game if the ags had just been honest and come out and said “We changed our minds.”. Instead, they did everything within their PR power to blame Texas and leave a scorched Big12 behind. As it stands, they deserve to be punished. We can get back to the rivalry game when Texas damn well feels like it.

http://www.aggieathletics.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=27300&ATCLID=20522520.

CBS’ murderer’s row of UT critics has been really funny to watch during all of this mess; it’s like they crowd around the water cooler inventing new hyperboles about Texas’ evil-ness every morning.

It was amusing and sad: Last Saturday’s CBS pregame show had Tim Brando pitching a softball to Tony Barnhart about why the B12 wouldn’t add TCU. Barnhart walked right up to the line of saying Texas didn’t want TCU in because they’re winning too much and a threat to Texas… but didn’t actually say that.

Arkansas won

Disregard last comment – accidentally submitted.

As the General noted, A&M was as committed to the Big 12 as Texas was and is.

And this:

“It had nothing to do with the A&M athletic department being cash strapped?”

A&M is just fine.

Arkansas won 68.3% of their games from 1971-1991 (their last 19 years in the SWC)

Arkansas won 55.7% of their games from 1992-2010 (their first 19 years in the SEC)

A&M won 57% of their games from 1996-2010 (their first 15 years in the Big 12)

Because the SEC is a better conference than the Big 12, A&M can expect to have a lower winning percentage than they’ve had in the Big 12. Because the Big 12 is better than the SWC was, the drop-off probably won’t be 20% as in the case of Arkansas. A 10% drop-off is more reasonable. Aggies are likely to win about 51% of their games in their first 20 years of play in the SEC.

When Bowtie Loftin said that this was a 100 year decision, he meant that it will take the aggies 100 years to win a championship in the SEC.

The Arkansas-A&M comparision doesn’t totally work — beacause A&M is actually situated in Texas, while Arkansas is in — you know — Arkansas.

Texas A&M has better facilities and a much better recruiting base than Arkansas especially when compared to when the Razorbacks joined the SEC. They may not experience the recruiting Nirvana their fans believe will follow their move, but they won’t face the drop off that Arkansas faced as well.

Athletes typically want to win. All this talk of A&M recruiting better long term in the SEC has me kind of puzzled. It sounds like the Aggies on this site are admitting that the SEC is going to be harder competitively than the Big12 in football. At that same time, they are saying that the team will still be better due to enhanced recruiting.

Looking at a long term, steady state, logic tells me that difficulty in winning will negatively affect your recruiting. I don’t think A&M will be at a Miss St. level. That is ridiculous. However, I don’t see how the slightly-worse-to-equal-record-in-Big12 leads to significantly better recruiting. I think there could be a point in time where that is the case, but again I am looking at the steady-state.

I think it is just as possible that TCU enters the Big12, continues with their current program, and their recruiting benefits greatly from more TV exposure and being in an AQ conference. They have less overall resources than A&M but so did UMiami at one point in time.

I think I agree with the opinion that A&M’s mean performance will be Auburn. And that goes with cheating or not. A&M-cheating=Auburn-cheating and A&M-noncheating = Auburn-noncheating. If UTexas really does police Texas recruiting like it sounds they will that decreases A&M’s potential success.

Actually a 51% winning percentage for A&M in the SEC might be too high.

A&M only won 52.8% of their games in their last ten seasons in the Big 12 (2001-2010).

Winning percentages include all games (conference and nonconference). Therefore A&M is likely to have a losing record in the SEC in most seasons.

“The Arkansas-A&M comparision doesn’t totally work — beacause A&M is actually situated in Texas, while Arkansas is in — you know — Arkansas.”

That would seem to make sense, but contradicts the historical long term success and national prominence of the two teams the last time they were in a conference together.

It would also have made sense for A&M to have been better than Mizzou, Tech, Nebraska, and OSU for the last 15 years, but that hasn’t been the case.

Monahorns -

Shit is cyclical. I know memories are short, but Bama, LSU, and Auburn have all had very sparse times in the past two decades.

The right coach at Miami can recruit a Top 10 team without driving more than an hour away. Miami has very little in terms of actual resources. Far less than A&M, and I’d actually say less than TCU.

I also like the assumption that A&M will cheat. Police your own league. Plenty of shadier programs than A&M in the Big 12.

You folks don’t pay much attention to SEC football if you think A&M will morph into Auburn over there. AU has three undefeated seasons in the last nineteen years (one with Cam Newton), two in the last eight years and one MNC. When did A&M achieve any of those things, even when cheating their asses off in one vastly inferior conference (SWC) or in the Big 12, which is not as competitive as the SEC, particularly the SEC West?

SEC affiliation does not, per se, guarantee football prominence for every member. Aggy has had one decent season since before they fired R.C. and in that one decent season they were prison raped by in the Cotton Bowl by, guess who, an SEC West team. Texas, and then OU to a much lesser extent, will still get their pick of the cream Texas recruits, with Aggy getting “about 20%” as Sherman put it and their new BFF’s getting some as well, most of which will be past Aggy pick ups. And you can be sure that they won’t get many if any OOS recruits that their chief rivals in the West or Florida in the East want.

They may not turn out to be MSU, Jr., but they sure as hell won’t be Auburn—-past, present or future.

A&M’s only successful period in modern times was when Jackie Sherrill created a culture of cheating at A&M. The aggies won 77.3% of their games from 1984-1994 – a period when they were placed on probation twice for buying players.

The aggies have not been caught cheating since and their program has fallen off a cliff. A&M won just 52.8% of their games in the 10 seasons from 2001-2010.

The aggies can’t win at an elite level without buying players.

Right. Fran had nothing to do with that. Hiring a bad coach fucks a program for many years.

A&M’s recent winning percentage of 52.8% represents a reversion to the historical mean. A&M only won 45.8% of its games in the 38 seasons from 1946-1983. Then Jackie Sherrill showed up with piles of cash and A&M’s winning percentage jumped to 77.3% from 1984-1994.

A&M was able to coast off the reputation it bought during the Jackie Sherrill era until about 2000 when A&M’s record began to revert to the historical mean. The aggies needed a scapegoat. A&M fired RC Slocum – the winningest coach in A&M’s history. The aggies hired Franchione – a man who had been wildly successful at TCU and fairly successful at Alabama. But Franchione wasn’t successful at A&M. The aggies needed another scapegoat and fired Franchione.

Mike Sherman took the job because he was on food stamps and needed the work. Sherman has been about as successful as any aggie coach can be without massive cheating. But Sherman will be the next scapegoat when Bowtie Loftin and Corn Aggie Byrne are cowering under their desks trying to save their jobs.

Aggie football mediocrity preceded Fran (and the jury is still out on what has succeeded him). I"m not sure why A&M has never * NEVER* fulfilled it’s potential in football. Maybe they will going forward. It’s all pure speculation that they will not be successful in the SEC. There is NO REASON they cannot as long as they can make some breakthroughs in recruiting consistently enough of the top tier players. What will create that breakthrough? The SEC? I don’t see that being a huge paradigm shift for what Aggies are selling.

Mike Sherman was the OC of the Texans. Other than that, your post is probably best suited at hornfans.com.

Bill Callahan was a successful coordinator in the NFL—-BFD! And your defense gave up 27 points in the second half, at home, last weekend. I’m generously excluding the Blackmon brain fart, which would have made it 34.

And TDL’s post makes as much sense as anything you’ve posted on this particular thread thus far.

A&M has a better prospective recruiting territory than Arkansas, that is a given. But unlike Arkansas, A&M is sharing that territory with two of the best recruiting teams in the nation, an AQ conference where every team requires Texas players to maintain their varying levels of success, a school on the rise that is about to enter another, albeit weakened, AQ conference, and their powerful new conference mates looking to pick a few new prizes each year. Even this year of successful recruiting could be considered an anomaly. I wonder what A&M’s recruiting class looks like if OU were taking a full class. OU already poached Trevor Knight with little fanfare. There are plenty of recruits to go around, but are there enough at the top to ensure another consistent conference-contending team when it looks like the state only supports two?

I guess I should say that state supports three conference-contending teams, since TCU should be a consistent top team in the Big East, but then I don’t think that level of competition compares to what A&M will be facing.

Dave Wannstadt was a successful coach in the NFL as was Charlie Weis. Pete Carroll and Nick Saban on the other hand sucked in the NFL, but I don’t think their college teams were disappointed in having failed NFL guys for coaches.

“And TDL’s post makes as much sense as anything you’ve posted on this particular thread thus far.”

Uhhh, thanks, I guess?

Winning percentages of the Post-World War 2 / Pre-Jackie Sherrill cheating era (1946-1983)

Texas 74.3%
Texas Tech 51.9%
Baylor 49.1%
A&M 45.8%

Winning percentages of the last decade (2001-2010)

Texas 82.2%
Texas Tech 67.2%
A&M 52.8%
Baylor 33.1%

CA, I guess you agree with me about TCU? Good. So TCU improvement will hurt A&M recruiting.

Steady-state means the final and consistent level of a process. Some are cyclical. No disagreement.

Also, I am not assuming A&M will cheat. My point was that I think Auburn’s potential reflects A&M’s.

Jake, are you sure Auburn wasn’t cheating during those other 3 seasons? If nothing else LSU and Alabama were down which helped them out too. That would be like OU and Texas being way down. It would help A&M. But yeah point taken. When OU and Texas were way down A&M still never went undefeated. Part of that was Nebraska, Colorado and K State being in an upswing.

A&M wasn’t winning enough in the Big 12 so the aggies decided to join the SEC.

Did anyone else notice that the aggies disappear whenever we start talking statistics? Aggie boy never learned to count past 21.

“Texas A&M has better facilities and a much better recruiting base than Arkansas especially when compared to when the Razorbacks joined the SEC.”

Some of you seem to forget. Arky recruited HEAVILY and successfully in the State of Texas – they got all three of the elite Arky players and quite a few from Louisiana. And this was every year. But once they joined the SEC, they lost the Texas recruiting base – just like A&M will.

Furthermore, given a choice, would a premier hs player rather play for a mediocre A&M or Alabama or LSU – assuming the SEC has dazzled them?

The assumption that the SEC wanted inroads into the state of Texas for TV’s and possible recruiting is valid and it is also reasonable to assume that, given another choice (like UT), they would have preferred that option as well.

Finally, also assuming that the Big 12 picks up one to three more teams, it’s reasonable to assume that THOSE teams will canvass the state of Texas with more vigor as well. This throws A&M into the recruiting maelstrom with even more competition to contend with than they have now

OH! Jake, I think ColoAG was referring to Maroon Carrot’s post just before mine. I could be wrong.

Evidently I am mesmorized with the word “assume” – sorry.

We assume a lot when we speculate.

You may be right TDL, but his response could have just as easily been to yours, since you were talking about A&M coaches, including the Sherminapper. But it wouldn’t change my post, other than to substitute Charlie Weiss for Bill Callahan.

Amd my apologies for damning you with faint praise, Pard. :>)

But once they joined the SEC, they (Arkansas) lost the Texas recruiting base – just like A&M will.

Really? Arkansas lost their recruiting base because they became just another interloper in Texas — no longer having any footprint in the state on a regular basis. A&M will still be playing 7 to 8 games a year in-state.

Some of you are selling short the benefits that A&M will derive from the SEC. They will have more of their 2nd and 3rd tier games on TV here (the SEC on ESPN will see to that). They will end up with some kind of regional “network” deal like Florida’s. They will have more cash to work with, and yes they will be more relevant than TCU on the recruiting trail (if TCU isn’t taken in by the Big 12).

I’m not saying they are going to be an elite program, but those who are predicting a fall off the cliff are off base. It will be about coaching, just as it has been at Alabama and Florida and LSU.

If/when Sherman goes, the next hire will be very important, but if you are a candidate what’s a better job — A&M or South Carolina? Or Mississippi, or MIssissippi State, or Kentucky, or Vanderbilt. I would also say that it is at least the equal job of Auburn.

I expect we do.

“If/when Sherman goes, the next hire will be very important, but if you are a candidate what’s a better job — A&M or South Carolina? Or Mississippi, or MIssissippi State, or Kentucky, or Vanderbilt. I would also say that it is at least the equal job of Auburn.”

Okay, but all of those programs suck. Hard. Obviously A&M is better than the dregs of the SEC. But that still just makes them middle of the pack in the conference.

And as for better than Auburn? I think you underestimate Auburn’s recruiting base. They’ve got a lot of appeal in Alabama and Georgia and they can supplement that with some Florida pickups. Obviously things change if something crazy happens like UGA making a home run hire and then locking the state border down or OU going on probation and really opening up Texas recruiting. But I like Auburn’s recruiting capability better right now.

And would A&M have the ability to pay a coordinator seven figures like Auburn is doing right now?

Nobody wants to look the issue in the face and acknowledge it. The B12 could have remained stable by merging the tier II and tier III rights together and creating a B12 Network. If that was agreed upon (and it was a topic of discussion three years ago), the B12 with Colorado, Nebraska and A&M would still exist.

Multiple leaders failed on this issue. We have what we have now. Texas, NU, CU, A&M and OU all share in the blame BUT over the next 3-5 years, I doubt Texas, NU, CU and A&M will really care (OU might given the short stick they are carrying).

OutKickTheCoverage has an interesting article up today discussing the SEC’s likely intention to merge tier III rights into a network deal so it looks like the SEC will join the B1G and PAC in that model choice.

Monahorns, no I’m not sure Auburn wasn’t cheating all three times. But I’m pretty sure they weren’t in the first instance, having just been put on probation when Bowden took them to an undefeated season after lackluster seasons under Dye and they were anything but loaded that year with every reason to quit. And Alabama wasn’t down that year—-not by a long shot and neither vwas florida who they beat on nthe road. In 2004, there is no evidence Tubbs was cheating but who knows? In 2010, well, I think we all know the answer to that one…they were and may very well still be, just like Bama and LSU at a minimum. They are, after all, in the SEC and that brings me back to the point, which it looks like you agree with. However they got it, Auburn is currently very talented but young, and Malzahn can usually keep them in a game with anyone not named Bama or LSU. Bama and LSU are scary talented and scary deep while Mullen is making damned good progress at MSU, but he is nearing his ceiling there already. There is no tougher division in all of college football than the SEC West, cheating or not.

As to the hypothesis that playing against the SEC West will automatically make Aggy better: I used to play a lot of league tennis in Birmingham in the 80’s, starting as a Middle C in both singles and doubles. That’s as average as you can get. A friend of mine told me correctly that you only get better by playing up, but he left out something that I learned the hard way. As a Middle C player, I set out to play up routinely got my teeth kicked in against A players, often getting bagled and pretty much humiliated and it hurt both my mechanics and my confidence. When I wised up and started playing low B players, I began to improve and kept playing up, but not so far up as to be stupid about it. My last two years there I played in a high B league in singles and an A league in doubles, which is pretty good. Getting your teeth kicked in by far superior talent isn’t necessarily a recipe for improving. The talent gap between Aggy and Bama, Auburn, LSU and Florida is incredily wide as LSU demonstrated in last year’s Cotton Bowl. Winning is the only thing that can close that gap and how much they will win in that Murders’ Row of a division is very much in doubt, IMO.

The A&M coaching job is like Mission Impossible. Aggies believe that the success of the Jackie Sherrill era should be the norm. But A&M can’t win at that level without resorting to massive cheating.

An aggie coach will always be at a disadvantage because most of the SEC teams can get away with dirty recruiting. If the aggies start buying players, Texas will turn them in to the NCAA. It’s a Catch 22. Only a fool would take the A&M job under present circumstances.

I predict that the aggies will hover around 50% winning percentage once they leave the Big 12. I don’t think that prediction is selling A&M short, considering that A&M has only won 52.8% of their games in the Big 12 over the last 10 years.

BigFunny, go back and read the article. The idea is pure speculation on the part of Clay Travis, of all people. He admits that Slive shared nothing with him and everything after that is pereceded by his “I think I know”. Nice try.

I am not in the camp that thinks A&M recruiting will drop off like Arkansas’s recruiting did…it is silly to think that A&M would go from having most of their players come from Texas to not having most of their players come from Texas. I just think that winning is what draws recruits and conference affiliation a distance second. Being on TV more will certainly help, but I don’t think losing on TV excites recruits any more than reading that the same team won in the paper or seeing highlights even though they didn’t get to see it live on TV. The biggest problem for A&M is that recruiting is a zero-sum game and by leaving the conference (especially for one that is deeper) they are potentially splitting up a limited pie even further while also increasing the risk of committing the gravest of sins by consistently losing.

" The biggest problem for A&M is that recruiting is a zero-sum game and by leaving the conference (especially for one that is deeper) they are potentially splitting up a limited pie even further while also increasing the risk of committing the gravest of sins by consistently losing."

Ricky ftw!

@srr50-
“They will end up with some kind of regional "network" deal like Florida’s. They will have more cash to work with, and yes they will be more relevant than TCU on the recruiting trail (if TCU isn’t taken in by the Big 12).
I’m not saying they are going to be an elite program, but those who are predicting a fall off the cliff are off base. It will be about coaching, just as it has been at Alabama and Florida and LSU.”

As far as money is concerned, a&m will be lucky to see an increase of $2mil/ yr in revenue from the move to the SEC. Paying $30mil for the pleasure of making an extra $2mil a year is logic only an aggie could love. Already, SEC games broadcast into Texas draw better in Texas than aggie games draw in Texas. That alone should make you wonder just how much added revenue a&m is going to bring to the SEC television contract. How a&m moving into the SEC is going to transform College Station from a shithole to the most incredible college town any athlete in the country could imagine escapes me. I just don’t get it.

At the end of the day, if a kid wants to spend 4 years in College Station, he is going to go there, regardless of whether the ags are in the Big 12 or the SEC. Changing conferences won’t change the culture of tamu and culture of tamu is what a lot of prospective recruits don’t like.

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/09/25/how-much-does-am-stand-to-gain-from-sec-move/

Paying $30mil for the pleasure of making an extra $2mil a year is logic only an aggie could love.

They will not have to pay anything near $30 million to get out of the Big 12. The precedent was set with Nebraska and Colorado.

Already, SEC games broadcast into Texas draw better in Texas than aggie games draw in Texas. That alone should make you wonder just how much added revenue a&m is going to bring to the SEC television contract.

There will be more of them, more of the 2nd and 3rd tier games will be in the major markets — not just the CBS and ESPN contests.

How a&m moving into the SEC is going to transform College Station from a shithole to the most incredible college town any athlete in the country could imagine escapes me. I just don’t get it.

The SEC is chock full of “shitholes” and while it won’t turn A&M into an incredible college town their location will hardly be any more of a hinderance than it is now. Being in the SEC will add to their national credibility and it will make it easier to take players away not from Texas or OU but from TCU and Oklahoma State and other outsiders who pluck off a few Texas players a year.

Think Robert Griffin III would want to play for an SEC team and still stay in-state?

Right now we have the #1 rated recruiting class for 2012 according to Rivals. A&M’s is ranked 6th.

I simply don’t buy the idea that A&M will fall into a black hole in the SEC. I think they will struggle early on — as Arkansas did — and they have more than enough resources to reach the middle of the pack in the SEC, which is a better lot than being in the middle of the pack in the Big 12.

“They will not have to pay anything near $30 million to get out of the Big 12. The precedent was set with Nebraska and Colorado. "

And right after the Neb and Colo agreements, the Big 12 members (including a&m) restated their commitment to the Big12 and upped the exit fees substantially. As for “adding to a&m’s national credibility” the only thing that will accomplish that is winning on the field. The whole idea that moving to the SEC will make a&m’s culture appealing, add direct flights to other SEC towns so families can watch games or make College Station anything other than a rural town of 200,000 – i don’t see it. At the end of the day, nothing about a&m will change with their move to the SEC.

And, if one wonders whether a&m’s fortunes will increase after they are in the SEC, one should look to Nebraska, not Arky.

Nebraska moved from the Big 8 to the Big 12 and lost their provisional qualifiers. Nebraska’s fortunes fell because few kids, having an opportunity to go to any other school, wanted to spend four years in Lincoln, Nebraska. Kids went to Nebraska because they couldn’t pass the admission requirements at most other schools, so Nebraska was the only option. Now Nebraska is in the Big 10 (which is a lot more lenient on admitting athletes who are dumb as door nails) Nebraska will do much better.

If a kid doesn’t like the culture of a school or the town the school is located in, they will choose to go to a more desirable school if they have an option. The school and the program are the main draws for a student athlete. Moving to the SEC hasn’t brought out the best in the ags, it has just made them more rabid and more cocksure that the aggie experience is the finest in the land. They more vehemently argue that farmville is wonderful, that outdated traditions are a badge of honor and that a lifelong .500 program exemplifies excellence. How this is going to entice kids with an option to go somewhere else, I don’t understand.

At the end of the day, a&m will continue to get the occasional kid who likes the warped aggie culture and the kids that don’t get offered by a school that they truly would prefer to attend. In other words, nothing will change. They will pay their $30 mil to make an extra few million a year, their fans will drive at least 350 miles each way to see out of town games, their minor sports will have practically zero visiting fans and they will be a .500 program. The more life changes, the more it stays the same.

Auburn cheating or not cheating? Are you kidding?
Bobby Lowder runs that school and calls all shots no matter who is coaching. Of course they cheated all those years.

Ok, so let me see if I got this straight. A&M won one Big 12 title and that was in 98. The SEC is the best football conference in the nation and the Big 12 supposedly sucks. Yet, I am to believe that a school that has not really been competitive in a weaker conference is going to suddenly be competitive in a stronger one?
Yeah, ok.

The Aggies once played LSU 8 straight years in Baton Rouge and they are being used again in much the same fashion and English Ag has the nerve to say a Longhorn is delusional? Good one.

Over all, though, I think this discussion has been great. Most posts have been pretty mature and reasonable.
I don’t recall running into any ColoradoAg type Aggies in real life.

In my world, we talk about discriminators – market positions or qualifications that none of our competitors have. So now, the Ags are going from being the only Big 12 school with a rural culture, located in a small town miles from the closest major airport or big city, to being no different than half of the SEC. They are tossing out their discriminator. If a kid likes that, and is attracted to playing in the SEC, and is good enough to get an SEC offer, why would they go to aTm?

Jake, I would think the first Auburn undefeated season was a result of cheating. They were on probation for what? Their roster was full of players brought in by cheating. Kind of like the OU’s ‘56 MNC. They were on probation for all the cheating they had done in the 50’s. They weren’t allowed to play in a bowl, but they still were voted champions with the fruit of their lawlessness.

“If a kid likes that, and is attracted to playing in the SEC, and is good enough to get an SEC offer, why would they go to aTm?”

Because it’s close to home. A kid who really doesn’t like the bright lights of the big city is also probably not the sort to go hundreds of miles away for a conservative, rural environment when one is available close to home. The bigger problem is that most elite football players don’t seem to crave a conservative, rural environment. They will go there if they think they will win a lot and win championships, but a thriving college town or city is probably going to be more appealing to a majority of recruits.

Ultimately, recruiting is only part of the story. As srr50 noted, coaching is just as important and if Sherm isn’t the answer for A&M they could be on a long road of mediocrity that will look a whole lot worse in the SEC.

You guys are obsessed with partial qualifiers! Honestly I hadn’t even heard the term partial qualifier for years up here in Ne til I started following barking carnival on twitter. And enjoy this site and dialogue. So I tried to google partial qualifier and 90 percent of results were UT blogs and message boards. I do remember that being anrub for Osborne when B12 was formed though. But there has been 0 discussion about it around here.

I could be wrong and please correct me because I am interested in this. I believe the NCAA doesn’t use the term partial qualifier anymore, which is why some say it no longer exists. But it does exist just different terminology. If your a non qualifier a school can now ask for a partial waiver. Which is basically the same thing. The sec limits total of these to 4 a school (which was one of the changes mike slive wants is a return to the old rules?)

These are more questions than statements – so if Ne signs a non qualifier they can give him a scholarship he cannot play that first year, loses that year of eligibility, but is safely in the program?
I’m gathering my understanding from this article basically.

http://www.sundaymorningqb.com/story/2008/2/7/112048/2086

Monahorns, the violations occurred under Dye and the sanctions were brought down after he had suffered some very ordinary seasons. If the quality of the players reflected the cheating, he sure as hell wasn’t getting any benefit from it. I watched that team in person and I can tell you that they were far from the talent level AU has now and they beat both Florida and Alabama with far less talent. I can also assure you they weren’t anywhere near the talent level of the post probation OU teams you’re describing. But hey, who cares, right? Debating Auburn’s or any other prominent SEC program’s ethics is not something I intended to get into so mea culpa!

My original post was about some peoples’ contention that Aggy would somehow settle in at Auburn’s level in the SEC. Cheating or not, (and every prominent SEC West program does) that’s a damned high level—-Top 4 at least—-if you’ve followed SEC football for the last 20 years! And as I pointed out, Aggy cheated their asses off in the SWC and never went undefeated or won an MNC at a time when its competition sucked donkey balls. The question was where Aggy would wind up in that environment and I stand by my original position based on their experience with cheating and concurrent lack of success in a conference vastly inferior to the one they are currently headed to.

Oh and TTS, Bobby Lowder was thrown off the Auburn Board of Trustees about two years ago and while he was a sorry SOB and exerted undue influence for a long time, he currently has no control whatsoever at Auburn so you can let that one go. Nowadays they need to keep a watchful eye on Old Yella Fella so you should probably update your database to add him and remove Lowder.

KLR, so you really think Nebraska would be out there vocalizing there dismay over losing partial qualifiers? It would sort of be like A&M vocally saying they should start cheating again in order to get back to that one short period when they dominated Texas football. Partial qualifiers being a major cog in a football program’s success isn’t exactly something you want to broadcast.

I remember when it happened, there were a lot of Big 8 types claiming it was basically a form of ‘welfare’ and that those poor under-educated students deserved a chance at a college education and those mean old SWC schools (I don’t think Texas was singled out to the degree we are today back then since we were down.) were denying kids an education. After a year or two that talk died down because it was becoming obvious that these kids weren’t getting an education and partial qualifiers weren’t really student athletes. I believe some schools even had athlete-only majors that were basically just there to keep athletes, especially partial qualifiers, eligible and I think the NCAA outlawed them at some point in early 2000s.

I dunno. NE was pretty vocal about it when they entered the B12. Not something they hid from really. And it’s not that I think NE would be advertising it now, but that some media would be covering it currently.
But that’s what I’m trying to figure out. I read some posts and people say their outlawed by NCAA and others say no their not. And my when I googled it literally all the current chatter about it is from UT fans
Again I don’t claim to know a lot about it, but isn’t the alternative to not allowing partials is the school tries to hide them in sum juco, hope no one steals them, and hope they can get get qualified?

“BigFunny said: September 28th, 2011 at 2:48 pm

Nobody wants to look the issue in the face and acknowledge it. The B12 could have remained stable by merging the tier II and tier III rights together and creating a B12 Network. If that was agreed upon (and it was a topic of discussion three years ago), the B12 with Colorado, Nebraska and A&M would still exist."

There is a problem with this statement. NU’s and TAMU’s voting record is clear. They want to share tier 3 rights with Texas (or Big 10 schools or SEC schools). They don’t want to share tier 3 rights with KSU, ISU, or Baylor. Such a deal would not have kept them in the B12.

KLR, the media knows less about history than you do. They are acting like Texas was the swinging dick back in the late 90s that killed off the SWC and single-handedly set up a conference that was entirely created to do their bidding. The media can’t even get the present right! They ‘report’ that revenue sharing is all important in the Big 12’s collapse when all the teams that left constitute the main core that benefited the most off of the unequal shares and voted and lobbied to successfully get the votes to allow it! The fact that you have come to a Texas board to try and insinuate something based on a Google search should tell you something about the media considering you remember Nebraska complaining about their loss of PQs back in the day. That meme doesn’t hold water and if Nebraska said they left the Big 12 in part to get back their partial qualifiers only Texas and Nebraska fans would shake their heads knowingly, everyone else would be attacking the Huskers for taking athletes that can’t perform in the classrooms of other schools to come and play. I am sure the Big 10 would have loved to have their academics dragged through the mud if that was touted as a big reason for Nebraska leaving the Big 12!

Texas football fans care about the sport (this site and other Texas sites were so far ahead of the curve on the Will Lyles stuff) and care about its history. Nebraska has been whining for quite a long time its just that they pushed different story lines over the years. They want their newspapers and media flacks to report the story in ways that make Nebraska look like the victim and in every case they make Texas the bully. Our sportswriters suck and probably couldn’t even find Lincoln on a map much less do a search to find the Nebraska local sports pages to even consider a rebuttal. The Texas AD isn’t in the business of playing he-said/she-said and has shown a remarkably thick skin to the amount of negative BS the media has been spewing. Perhaps Texas fans aren’t so thick skin, but we also want better reporting. We probably have the highest quantity and quality of fan journalism in the sport because our local media and most of the national media is putrid.

Does anybody have any thoughts about this proposed 6 year grant of Tier 1 and/or 2 rights to the conference as insurance against further defections? I’ve got some concerns about it from Texas’s perspective. I think it might keep the Big XII together, but ultimately tie the hands of programs like Tex and OU. If EVERY conference did it, no problem, but ACC still may be shopping, SEC looking for a 14th, PAC and SEC looking for options… I guess I worry that Texas gets left out if their rights are locked up but expansion continues everywhere else. Anybody have any thoughts on that?

Why would we be locked out while everyone else is free to do as they choose? The truth is, there are only two primary candidates that area attractive for expansion right now and we are one of them (ND is the other). Missouri is the only school still running off at the nouth about leaving, but I don’t see anyone rushing to grab them and they are replaceable if they leave. Recent history confirms that OU and OSU are not expansion candidates without us, so they aren’t going anywhere. If the Big 12 wanted to really hamstring its schools to stay, it would be a longer term agreement.

I think we’ve surveyed the landscape and don’t really see a better option than what we have in all phases: economics, geographic, fan friendly, recruiting friendly and, to a lesser extent academic.

The Big 12 has a very good chance (excluding Aggy) to finish with a couple of Top 10 teams and 4 Top 25 teams. Out of nine teams, what’s the matter with that?

Jake, I hear ya, and I’m not as pessimistic about the Big XII’s short term survival as I was a few weeks ago. That said, I think the trend is in the direction of superconferences, and I only see 4 for sure that I know are going to be there, whether that end result is 5, 10, or 15 years away. SEC, B1G, ACC, PAC. I just don’t see a model, short of some kind of consolidation with Big East or possibly Mountain West, that allows for a Midwest based conference, super or otherwise. Mostly that’s because I have trouble counting on long term success from teams like Iowa State and Baylor. You’ve got two anchors left in the Big XII, Texas and OU. So to answer your question, two top 10’s and 4 top 25’s is GREAT. But I just don’t think it’s sustainable.

Now, I assume from your post that your thinking is that no further expansion will happen without Texas in the mix. I agree with you in thinking that Texas is the biggest domino left to fall in this thing. But I disagree with you (if I’m understanding your take right) in thinking that nobody else has any power to move the needle here without Texas making a move first.

I’m not setting my hair on fire to get out of the Big XII at this point, I’m just wondering, what the consensus is regarding a lock down 6 year commitment to a conference on (at best) shaky legs at this point. I’m looking to be convinced it’s a good idea. If you’re Texas, do you think it is? You’re one of the better thinkers here Jake, so if you disagree with my stance that Texas’s options are in any way curtailed by a 6 year grant, tell me why. You can definitely sell me.

Didnt mean to insinuate anything. Just read conflicting items whether partial qualifiers exist or a form of them is all. And barking carvivals twitter i found intersting is all. Got no prblm with UT and just found the current “outrage” re: weighted profit sharing and 3rd tier rights complete b.s because as i recall UT, OK, NU all were in favor of that. And last i checked every school had one vote on those issues.
Was just trying to learn what the truth is about partials is all, and UT fans have discussed it more than anyone from what i can tell. Im gonna look into this more,’prblm is asking someone in authotity with knowledge to ask. Cuz these local or even national reporters dont underatand the issue.

Taylor -

Austin, Texas is the largest city in the U.S. without a pro sports franchise (1.3million people in the primary media market). As such, the Tier 3 and local media rights are the most valuable of any team in college sports. This is one of the major reasons Texas generates serious cash. The question is whether Texas pockets that revenue or if is shares that revenue with conference schools. Most other conferences allow teams to keep their Tier and local revenues. Texas’ unique situation is causing unique issues.

The idea of a Big 12 network was presented a few years ago and it was voted down 11-1. Texas presented a&m with the idea of a two team network and was rebuffed (College Station is a marketplace of 198,000. Lubbock is 250,000 and Waco is 195,000). What option was left to Texas when the conference didn’t want a joint deal and aggie didn’t want a deal? (fyi – The Pac 12 network calls for 6 two team channels and one conference channel for a total of 7 individual channels).

Everyone wants to share Tier 3 rights with Texas because of UT’s unique market. The problem is that they want to do it only on their terms.

Srr50 – True, that there will be more games played in Texas than Arky did. However, Arky mostly got their players from east Texas, DFW area and Houston and their teams were 75% Texas boys. The drive to Fayettville and now College station was not that different.

Now, with A&M being part of the SEC, don’t you think LSU, Arky and Bama will be standing on the front porch, along with A&M, of that premier player. Don’t you think Les Miles is licking his chops with being able to promote the SEC as well as TAMU?

My concern is UT’s ability to recruit players to a shaky conference now. You know damn good and well that all SEC recruiters will be promoting that!

TexanNick -

Of all the conferences, even a truncated Big 12 offers Texas the best mix of independence, money, and geography. When six years of media rights are committed, the Big 12 can bury the realignment issue and stabilize the conference for four or five years at least. LHN will be preserved at least long enough to determine its value in future negotiations. Texas has played its hand well. The superconference option will always be there for Texas. The only question is under whose terms. Deloss Dodds and the Bellmont staff have done a great job of maintaining a strong negotiating position for Texas.

Snide Aside -

You’re right that the SEC will try to use Big 12 instability to gain Texas recruits. That’s why it’s important for the Big 12 to stabilize its own conference and destabilize the SEC at the same time.

The easiest way to destabilize the SEC is to catch their teams in cheating scandals. LSU, Alabama, and Auburn have all been embroiled in cheating scandals in the past. The Big 12 should establish a fund to sniff out recruiting abuses in Big 12 territory and SEC territory. Perhaps the ACC and even the Big 10 might contribute to such a fund, as it could benefit their recruiting as well.

As far as stabilizing the Big 12, pledging multi-year media rights and winning games on the field should achieve that. The Big 12 has been successful these past ten years, even though A&M, Nebraska, and Colorado were virtual no-shows.

“All of this ‘they lied’ stuff is bullshit. DeLoss lies every time he says he is committed to the Big XII. "

You know this for a fact? Or are you just throwing personal opinion and claiming it as fact?

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