Today's Conference Shuffle Open Thread

This happened exactly when it needed to happen. It is good to be proactive whilst Missouri sniffs SEC butts.

This is just so exciting I can’t help myself…….

I get that these are weighty decisions that are really important for all of the schools involved, but I just want to take a moment to say this to Missouri:

FUCK you guys, for distracting me with realignment BS during a week where my sole focus should be convincing the devil that I have enough of a soul to sell for a Texas victory.

That is all.

I suspect we now await the MU move to add other teams; otherwise, if MU stays we end-up with divisions again (or a 10-game conference schedule).

Agree. I was one who never thought TCU would get invited, and I think it can only mean they’re going to 11 temporarily based on the fact they are pretty certain Mizzou is leaving and ultimately to 12. The next invitee is probably BYU and then wait for what Mizzou does. If Mizzou stays, which I doubt, then they would go to 12, with either Louisville or WVU. If Mizzou leaves and schools other than Texas and OU have their way, then they bring in Louisville and WVU to get to 12.

At this point, I think they should give Missouri an ultimatum to either shit or get off the pot. Can they be expelled?

I know it doesn’t add any TV markets but it will make travel easier for the non-revenue sports. I think the non-Texas teams will like being able to play another game every other year in the state, the fact it’s in DFW is a bonus (for them).
Even the conventional-wisdom blinded sports pundits have to see
how many compromises Texas is making to hold this conference together and even make it better, right?

now we just need Boise State, BYU and West Virginia… That would not be too bad…

I don’t like it. I don’t like it one bit.

It feels like were going backwards. The Big 12-4+2 isn’t quite as weak or private school-heavy as the SWC was. But it’s close.

I understand the LHN considerations, but I hope our power brokers remember how hard it was to succeed in a shitty regional conference. Is our program really better off with the LHN in the Big 12 Lite than it would have been with an LHN lite in the Pac-16?

What does TCU deliver other than about 100,000 TV sets? Not much.

This sounds like a stop gap for short term conference stability in case Mizzou bolts while long term plans are worked out.

My prediction from last year was BYU, AFA to replace Co and Neb, and TCU to replace agy. So far, so good.

My question for you today is, is the $EC a big happy fambly, or are there rumblings of discontent?

If Mizzou leaves, it will be at the expense of their football program. No way they can compete in the SEC without access to Texas recruiting grounds. I’ve somewhat assumed that it wasn’t a coincidence Tech’s streak of 18 straight bowl eligible seasons started shortly after Arkansas bolted. We rarely beat out Arkansas for players in the 80s and now we do on a regular basis. We don’t lose out on a material amount of recruits to Mizzou like we did to Arkansas in the SWC days, but I have a feeling Mizzou’s exit would benefit the likes of Baylor and now TCU. I just don’t see Mizzou making a splash in SEC recruiting grounds and the Texas high school coaches sure aren’t going to be as enamored sending their kids that direction. However, Pinkel has made his money on evaluations, not beating out OU, OSU and Tech for recruits, so it could be a nominal effect. Still, they won’t be competitive in the SEC with that strategy. I thought it was laughable when Pinkel suggested UT had an unfair advantage with the LHN like he is regularly in the hunt with Mack Brown for top talent.

Concessions should have been made before losing one of the all time winningest programs in college football history.

I’m with you brick. Yes, players want to play close to home but they also want to play in big games with electric atmospheres. After this year, we will be playing one of those games per year.

Vasherized sez: What does TCU deliver other than about 100,000 TV sets? Not much.

What do you want? Who’s your better choice?

What is also does is help TCU to better replace A&M… with regard to recruiting.

Is the second announcement that LHN will not show high school highlights?

Anyhoo, I prefer TCU in the Big XII to all other options. Offers some competition to OU recruiting in DFW, historic program, was not in the same class of SWC cheaters as SMU and A&M, and, unlike the Aggies, have been a more successful program for a helluva longer time.

They don’t bring a lot of TV sets to the table, but they do play football better than Little Brother.

Why does Missouri get a free pass with their TV network, KOMU? They broadcast high school football and have a friday night fever section on their website. Thank you to Recruitocosm for the info.

The link if anyone is interested:

http://www.komu.com/pages/fnf/

Vasherized sez: What does TCU deliver other than about 100,000 TV sets? Not much.

What do you want? Who’s your better choice?

At this point, I want our fearless leaders to take a serious look in the mirror. I want them to ask: “Is our collective dingus really as big as we thought? Can we really have our cake and eat it too? Or do we need to start reevaluating the pros and cons of this LHN experiment before we become forever trapped in the Big Nothing Conference?”

Not sure I see the value in inviting TCU before BYU. Then again, I don’ t really see BYU as being all that.

WVU is another story altogether.

Josh – BSU = no….

Honestly the best add out of those spoken about would be something like this:

TCU – gets us to 10 – no extra tv sets, but gets us in front of the DFW market a second time a year. Great in baseball and overall their Athletic program’s arrow is only pointing up. More money from the conference for them will only help accelerate their facility investments

BYU – gets us to 11 (or 10 if Mizz quits on us), 60 million tv sets with BYU-TV, solid football team, national following, lots of money and donors. Best fit out there, plus sets up some great Mormon vs Baptist games with Baylor

Louisville – gets us to 12 (or 11), perennial top 10 BB program and also the most profitable BB program in the country. Quickly lends strength to the B12’s BB conf with the likes of KU, Baylor, UT, OU and now UoL. Solid FB program that would only be helped by starting to play in a power conference against UT and OU. They have a very smart AD that is pushing them into the black money-wise and looks like this will only continue.

Dark horse – Tulane, but only if Mizz leaves. Gets us back to 4 AAU schools, doesn’t compete with any of the big boys. Gets us front and center in Louisiana every other year which helps with recruiting, great road trip (New Orleans) and could likely play these games at the Super Dome. Somewhat akin to adding Rice, but with a lot more bonus’s in location and fertile recruiting ground.

Disappointing.

What makes you think BYU hasn’t been invited? Unofficially, I mean.

The reason today’s announcements by the Big 12 and TCU are important is because it means talks have already progressed to the “sign here” stage. And the fact this came out of nowhere certainly makes it seem like talks could still be on-going with BYU.

I think we are better off going back to 12. I’m not sure why the admin wants 10. 10 teams makes us play 9 conf games and only 3 non con. Essentially, that is just 1 extra crap game that the LHN can’t/won’t touch. We may have more crappy programs if we go to 12, but we’d only play 8 (and we are in the ‘good’ division). More games worth showing assuming our non con scheduling continues to trend towards 1 in state warm up game (Rice, UTEP, UTSA), and other ‘high profile’ (even if they have been down) teams.

Conferences will become irrelevant to the playoffs. Once the Beauty Contest System has the stake driven through its heart, that will happen. The NC2A also needs to be called to heel by the schools that created it, fund it, and ultimately own it.

There are 11 conferences and 121 teams this year. Next year there will be 125 teams. Not sure if there are currently any “independents” beyond ND, USMA and USNA, and not sure where the next four teams are expected to go WRT “conferences”.

Note that at least ND is “independent” in football, but not basketball (suspect also true of “other” sports), dunno about USMA/USNA as far as baseball, wrestling, lacrosse, tennis, etc etc etc. The model is there if we want to do something with it.

I think its a smart move. It’s a middle finger to A&M and the SEC in regards to recruiting by building a bigger wall around North Texas. OSU, OU, Tech and Texas get an additional game in DFW every other year. If a high school athlete wants to play college ball in Texas, the Big 12 remains the top option. LSU can eat it. And it puts A&M on more of an island than it’s already stupidly created for itself.

And you’re getting this by adding a private school that will never gain mass market appeal in Texas because of alumni numbers. Yet, they it increases the athletic respect of the conference. Sorry Aggies, you know its true.

John Taylor, rather have West Virginia than Louisville… Real good football, good basketball, rowdy ass fans…

This seems like a stability play and something that will “make sense” to the college football world and generate some good PR.

There will be natural comparisons btw TCU and A&M, and the Aggies won’t like it when TCU is viewed as a football upgrade. On the recruiting trail, we can continue to call the BigXII the league where Texas HS players play.

I also think TCU should leak that they want to schedule A&M in non-conference.

No new TV sets is a main drawback. I thought TCU would be new team #3 or 4, if at all.

Tech or TCU on Thanksgiving (weekend at least) in the future? I vote TCU just because more Texas alums will have family in DFW. JMO.

UTSA drew more in the first home football game (56,743) than TCU has ever played before at home (48,000 max).

Weak, weak sauce. I would have approved of the move if it was done the instant A&M said they were going to leave the conference. That would have at least been a clear shot across the A&M bow that we will replace their crappy football team and rabid fans with a decent football team and crappy fans just to keep 4 of the conference teams in Texas. But at this late date with Mizzou clearly on the bubble I think this move pushes them out more than helps sell them to stay. Another Texas team to keep the focus down south, another Texas team that eats up exactly the type of recruits they need to remain relevant and another mouth to feed that takes dollars away from the shared revenue. Would have rather seen Tulane.

Tulane? We already have TCU and Baylor. West Virginia would be my next choice. historically, they play good football in Morgantown.

Will somebody start a rumor about a secret Notre Dame deal being revealed today, so that I can foolishly believe it?

I’m fine with it, but I’m biased as rest of family are Frogs.

Still, the only attractive options out there were BYU, TCU and Louisville imo, with maybe WVU close behind. Outside of those 4 schools, everything else makes me retch. I don’t buy that these big commuter schools in recruiting hotbeds/big cities (USF/UCF, Houston, Cincy, Memphis) add much in the long term. I mean, is every UH game even on in Houston?

I’ve thought it would be a good idea, especially if we go to 12, to add one more Texas school, and TCU is clearly the best choice right now. Perhaps in 5 years, we’d wish we picked up SMU, but its 2011, not 2016.

TCU? Tulane?

The SWC was better than this.

I like adding TCU, beefs the presence up even further in DFW.

I really really really want USF and BYU as the other two schools to get back to 12. BYU for their network and fanbase, USF for the damn TV sets and recruiting grounds. We got the money to fly everybody on our non revenue sports to the locales, who gives a shit if the other teams in the conference do too?

…. adding to my post that I’ll assume Notre Dame is a pipe dream right now.

No West Virginia please. They make those lovely Arkansas fans we all saw on TV last weekend look like the Stanford crowd.

Groundhog, I am saying if we are going to for a private school in the region we should have gone with Tulane. I am not saying they would be my first (second, third, or fourth) choice, just that I would have picked them ahead of TCU. TCU brings some current competitive juice, but that’s it. If they continue this season’s slide they are another Baylor that just feeds off of our teat. Tulane would give us some piece of the NOLA TV market as well as some new recruiting ground.

My top choices are BYU, WVU, and Louisville. If we want to grow more then look at Air Force. Then if any of those fail, look at Tulane. If we were going to add another Texas school I would have gone with Houston even though I know Dodds would never have countenanced that move, but even then I would put Houston behind Tulane as an option.

For what its worth, UH drew around 31,500 for home games in 2010, which was an increase.

Their stadium currently maxes out at 32,000, but they are planning expansions, as well as more on-campus dorms. They also became Tier One this year.

Very true, Nordy, but it would be a colorful game and we need those.

Also, what happened to the Big Cigar’s big, positive news on realignment? First, it looks like Mizzou is leaving and now we get the craptastic news that TCU has been invited. That’s all negative news.

Jesus, where are you?

SMU???? If in five years TCU looks like a bad choice then so would SMU. You do understand that much of TCU’s mojo comes from playing in a weak conference? Their ceiling is Tech during the height of the Leach years. More likely they will max out at Baylor during the RGIII years. Even more likely they will be Baylor pre-RGIII.

Starting in 2000, Texas A&M is 45-63 against BCS conference teams. TCU is 16-6.

Brick you are delusional if you think texas is going to be shut out.

In 2, 3, 4 or 6 years we can go to any conference in the country and say we are dropping all of our LHN demands and will do whatever they want with our 3rd tier rights.

Why are you so ready to move now when we don’t need to? We can figure out if this LHN works and the new conference works for us, and if the answer is a resounding no than we can capitulate. Unless you think that the Pac 12 or B1G or SEC or ACC would have no interest, down the road, in Texas joining their conference without LHN strings attached, which is a bizarre thought/contention.

Also, USC, MIami in the big east 1 year and as an indepdent other years, domers, tOSU, Nebraska, Oklahoma all mock and ridicule your idea that you need more than 2 elite teams in your conference to compete for MNC’s. Tech, OSU, TCU, Kansas and Kansas State have all had top 10 teams in the last decade. Nothinig saying they won’t be good some times and bad others, but as long as UT and OU are elite and there are 1 or 2 other schools having “good” years we are fine.

Ricky, maybe that’s true. TCU will have work to do, but they aren’t Baylor circa 1995. I think they’ll hang around and have some good and bad years with a couple great. Not everyone can be the top of the conference every year (except for UT going forward of course).

As for Tulane — that’s a non-starter. This is a school that BEFORE Katrina narrowly avoided voluntarily relegating themselves into 1-AA to focus on Academics. If you want TV sets, might as well get Rutgers instead. It’s the same argument.

If we are going to invite a small private non-BCS school, it might as be the one that is devoting time and money into its programs (see stadium upgrade to Amon Carter this year) as opposed to one that has basically a non-existent budget.

So tell me again why TCU is desirable? Didn’t they get sent packing when the original Big 12 formed? Who’s next? Rice? UTSA? Trinity?

I like the whole “We’re the Jones’” angle; however, it’s getting a tad ridiculous when we’re relegated to begging an ugly ex-girlfriend to return to us.

I have said for awhile that I think we made a mess of this whole thing. This does not add anything. Dumb decisions compound dumb decisions. Another Texas, dependent anchor which doesn’t do much for us. BYU is even worse. None of these things make any sense.

Except TCU is the old ugly ex-girlfriend that got new tits and plastic surgery and now is kinda hot. The problem is, we aren’t sure how good the plastic surgeon is and whether the work will hold up.

I have a feeling this might be to get Notre Dame thinking twice about the little Big East

If we are adding 3 or 4 schools, I’m fine with TCU being one of them. If we are only adding 1 or 2, we should have done better.

Toadvine – BYU makes perfect sense. They match up with the school network model we’re trying to pimp. And they’re currently the only school in the country that does.

F TCU; not interested.

They along with A$M, SMU, Houston and OU were among the big-time SWC and Big 12
cheater programs. Wish we could just freeze’em out!

If we are adding 3 or 4 schools, I’m fine with TCU being one of them. If we are only adding 1 or 2, we should have done better.

Who’s better?

See, this is the problem. Staying in the Big 12 just isn’t a good option, because the expansion options suck. Asking whether we could have added a better team is beside the point. The question should be: “could Texas be in a better position that it currently is?”

Some think this will all sort itself out, and we’ll end up in one of the desirable superconferenced down the road. I hope they’re right.

The Big East is still going to be a pretty good B-ball conference with the other non-football schools, as long as it continues to exist in some form. Even if it’s left as a (even more) weak football conference, that doesn’t affect ND much since they aren’t members in football.

This is a nightmare. We lose NU, CU, A&M, MU, all either the first or second tier university in their state, and replace them with (1) parochial schools (2) schools representing cities in other time zones with no tradition (3) a backwoods east coast school of little reknown. TCU, BYU, Louisville, Houston, West Va.? Are you kidding me? Why not UTEP, Weber State, and McNeese? Do you really think if MU leaves for the SEC, they will not be able to recruit in Texas, when they are in a big boy conference while Texas is in the SWC-Metro Conference?
Get some balls, OU and Texas- Either make the Pac 16 happen and play USC and Stanford, or go pick off Arkansas, the Arizona Schools, Notre Dame, ie real schools. A mongrel conference will not keep the TV rights the former Big 12 commanded, and will not be competitive in recruiting DFW, Houston and San Antonio high schools.

I’m hoping this is a ploy by TCU insiders to force an invite from the Big 12. I’m also hoping the Big 12 doesn’t fall for it.

I know, I’m unreasonably optimistic.

“Some think this will all sort itself out, and we’ll end up in one of the desirable superconferenced down the road. I hope they’re right.”

Brickhorn – God I hope so…think we may do something diff in a few years anyway, but TCU et. al is just sheer regression into yesteryear.

we aren’t sure how good the plastic surgeon is and whether the work will hold up.

Universal Truth. See Mackovic, J.

UTSA drew more in the first home football game (56,743) than TCU has ever played before at home (48,000 max).

UTSA will be in the mix for playoffs.

Also, what happened to the Big Cigar’s big, positive news on realignment? First, it looks like Mizzou is leaving and now we get the craptastic news that TCU has been invited. That’s all negative news.

See: Beholder, Eye of. My eye is not the only one that sees TCU as an anti-agy potion.

I think BYU would be a great addition. In a sense they would have been the Colorado replacement. Not quite the same TV market size but with Mormon affiliation they get close and with their own network it could help with LHN and OU network synergy. Mizzou can be credibly replaced by any of the Big East teams at only a minor loss of position. Other than ND, which is a bigger fish than any of the departed Big 12 teams, there just aren’t any candidates that replace Nebraska’s tradition or A&M’s fan base so we are looking at a net loss no matter who we bring in. Unfortunately TCU only brings in a decade of competitiveness that has a mere 16 victories against BCS-level opponents as evidence of their abilities. They don’t help TV and they likely hurt our recruiting.

Tex Long,
Whether you view TCU as positive or a negative, it isn’t big news.

Equal revenue sharing, a TCU invite…seems to me that DeLoss is finally coming around to the idea that if the new Big 12 is going to remain stable for awhile, UT has to temporarily put its preferences on the back burner when it comes to conference-wide issues.

TCU likely isn’t Dodds’ first or even second choice; that boosts yet another football team in our recruiting and TV footprint. But TCU’s definitely on the short list of the other Big 12 schools. OU would surely appreciate playing an extra game in Dallas without having to face UT as part of the deal. The other conference schools don’t currently get to play in Dallas at all, and I’m sure they’d prefer the shorter travel time compared to going to WVU or USF. It’s a sometimes-competitive program that won’t blow everyone’s socks off, a perfect replacement on the field for Aggy. Yeah they won’t bring TV bucks, but beyond BYU, who else would? (no Domo)

Point being, after the events of the last couple of weeks anyone who says UT is domineering the conference to its own advantage needs to get their head checked.

TCU would not have been my first choice as an add to the Big 12, and wasn’t at the top of UT’s list I’m guessing.

However, I think TCU was probably high on the list of all of the non-Texas schools. From their perspective: 1) another game every other year in Texas (and in DFW no less) to improve their recruiting, 2) probably perceived as another chord binding UT to the Big 12, and 3) since they almost all (all?) want to go to 12 teams, there are only a few options.

There are some positives: 1) minimizes travel and maximizes opportunities for fans/families to see games, 2) puts pressure on A&M and other out-of-state recruiting in the state since kids not taken by UT and OU still have another BCS option in the state/conference, 3) wounds the Big East and causes USF, WVU, & USF to be more open to possible invitations, and 4) gives us a team that would always sign up for the Thanksgiving slot when UT can’t find a higher-profile opponent.

*-Out of the box thought – what about UTEP? They would actually add new TV sets (practically a separate country), and their fans are pretty supportive. Not particularly competitive, but might improve in a BCS league. Thoughts?

I like the move just fine when properly viewed in the context of the Big 12’s moving to add a total of 3 schools. Economically it accomplishes nothing; however, we’re past the point of economics being the primary driver. At this point we’re battling the perception that the Big 12 is a sinking ship, with the imminent loss of Missouri compounding the considerable negative momentum of losing Neb, Colorado and A&M.

Adding TCU is actually a very smart stability move. Ultralight nailed it in saying this move will “make sense” to the football world and generate good PR. To the football world (Read: average football fans, HS coaches, recruits & their families and the sports media), little things like recent program success, regional rivalries and geographic proximity still matter more than TV sets and network deals.

Adding TCU replaces A&M with an equivalent or better instate football program, creates interesting regional match-ups (TCU vs. Texas/OU/Baylor/Tech) and further cements the Big 12 as the premiere instate BCS conference, which further isolates A&M. Smart defensive move. It’s not the panacea power-play that adding ND would be, but If we can pull BYU and Boise/WVU/Louisville to make 12, I think we have a recipe for financial viability and medium-term conference stability.

At the end of the day, I’m certain the powers-that-be view shoring up the Big 12 as being the safest medium-term move as we brace for the broader tectonic shifts in the college football landscape that will eventually move us toward superconferences and/or a playoff system. Protecting the LHN and maintaining unencumbered ownership of our third tier rights is sensibly the main goal here, and I think it’s a good one. It’s not going to be popular with the mouth-breathing majority of the Texas fanbase, but not letting those morons drive the bus is why we’re Texas and A&M is A&M.

Um did you guys hear about possibly Ball State. This thing is getting bad. Can we go to the Pac 12 already? this is embarrassing.

I thought this would happen – makes total sense.

I know some guys have expressed concern about being “tied to” another Texas team, but this was inevitable, and DeLoss seems happy (officially, at least).

BYU and Boise are next.

Within the past 2 weeks Mack Brown said he liked the direction the new conference expansion was taking, and followed that up by saying that it was important for athelete’s families to be able to travel to games. DeLoss echoed those sentiments in his Tulsa World Q&A yesterday, so this seemed like the inevitable next move. My question is how and if this philosophy will mesh with the next moves in expansion.

I didn’t see the game, but on Dallas radio yesterday they were talking about the poor attendence of SMU fans at the TCU-SMU game despite the fact it was a big game and it’s only an hours drive away (if that). I hope this is the last of regional expansion.

Whether you view TCU as positive or a negative, it isn’t big news.

No? It’s big news to folks saying it would never happen, TCU brings nothing, blah blah blah. Probably unwelcome news, at that. But “craptastic”? Huh.

what about UTEP?

And UTSA… and…

WTF do we WANT, here? What’s the point of all this re-org bullshit?

I’m not sure what everyone else wants, but I know what I want, and I know it doesn’t have fuck-all to do with conferences.

I want a real playoff. I want an end to the phoney-baloney BCS Beauty Contest, which is the driving force behind bullshit patsy scheduling. I want to see games that are actually fun and where we can see new ideas being tried out. That’s almost impossible with the current state of college football, where not only a loss, but even a close call, a failure to dominate a patsy or a weak sister puts you right out of the running for the boneless organic BCS Gen-You-Wine Two-team (count ’em, TWO) “playoff”.

The basketball and baseball playoffs already work pretty well – 64 (?) teams are in both playoffs, and no one with a serious chance is left out – and I don’t see any clamoring for conference jiggery-pokery for those (or any other) sports.

So, quit fucking around with this realignment horseshit, and let’s get a real playoff that does not depend on who is in which conference. The requisite media money will be there, and so will the fan support.

HelmetBoy said: “Protecting the LHN and maintaining unencumbered ownership of our third tier rights is sensibly the main goal here, and I think it’s a good one. It’s not going to be popular with the mouth-breathing majority of the Texas fanbase, but not letting those morons drive the bus is why we’re Texas and A&M is A&M.”

This. TCU isn’t the best addition for Texas, but it helps to stabilize the conference, and appeases the teams that wanted TCU added. I am willing to lose this battle to keep the third tier rights.

Once (not if) LHN is on first tier sports cable packages throughout Texas and second tier everywhere else, the picture will start to get clearer. And while the Big XII’s TV contract for 1st and 2nd tier rights may be a few million less per year than the SEC or Pac 12 when all is said and done, the ability to hang on to the LHN will more than make up for it. As someone on this board wisely said — any Longhorn who has the LHN, or has watched it for any significant amount of time, wants the university to take every commercially reasonable step it can to maintain it. It’s been pretty damn awesome thus far, and that’s beyond the women’s swim team hot yoga session.

And from a national perspective, the conference really hasn’t changed all that much. TCU is higher profile than A&M right now

Part of me thinks that the Texas would like to get to 12 so we can get back to 8 conference games and free up a date for the Ags. I know Dodds prefers the 10 game round robin, however being the only major conference left without a title game could hurt us. Historically it’s been the other way around, but I can’t help but feel now that the relative profile of that final game of the season (this year vs. Baylor!) may be a problem. I also think that while Dodds publicly won’t guarantee the A&M game he knows the fan base and the people of Texas want it. Finally I think after south dominated the Big 12 you can expect a legends/leaders kind of split

Ricky — I’ll eat a little crow (if Sittler’s source is right). Apparently Tulane is on the short list behind BYU and WVU.

From the Gazette article —

Average home attendance in 2010:

West Virginia 56,325

Louisville 50,648

TCU 42,466 (56th best)

Cincinnati 35,067

All of you are missing the obvious reason why we are the perfect reason to replace the Ags.

After seeing the first part of the season it is quite obvious adding TCU means the offenses in the Big XII will face a secondary on the same level as the one they will be losing when the Ags go to the SEC.

In all honesty, I have asked friends close to the program in Ft. Worth what we truly bring to the table that the Big XII doesn’t have and the only thing they can offer is a stable program that has been committed to trying to build itself into something.

That might not sound like much, but when you look around the state no other program is close to being in the same position on the field and other aspects, you don’t get that with UTSA, UTEP, Tulane, UNM, SMU, UH or any of the other programs that get thrown around and the idea of bringing in a school half way across the country with no regional ties makes little sense.

The play was UT to the PAC, that didn’t happen, and the best thing possible is solidify the Big XII and have two really strong programs in UT and OU and a group of solid programs. How is that any different from the PAC?

This sucks. Stop telling me she’s pretty. I know what a hot chick looks like, and none of these girls are good looking.

Brick,

Texas will be fine. There will always be a seat for Texas in the super-conference musical chairs if/when that comes. I know you’d have preferred to get there now, but Texas has zero worries about landing in a good spot if eventual Big12 implosion happens.

I listen to College Gameday almost dailyon Sirius XM Ch. 91, mainly for Arute/Leach. Yesterday, I listened to Paul Fienbaum as well. Almost every call he got was from SEC fans re: Missouri. At least nine of every ten were against MU coming in. A few MU people called to make a case and Finebaum would hardly let them talk before the beatdown.

If it was left up to a fan vote, which it isn’t, I doubt Missouri would get 1% of the vote, FWIW. If they think they’re a stepchild here, well……

Wouldn’t West Virginia fall outside of the current expressed desire to keep the Big XII within a certain geographic context, with a mind toward travel for both athletes and their families?

Seems like BYU is almost a given at this point. Tulane seems like a ridiculous choice, with the only positives being their academic reputation and their proximity.

Boise State stands out as a school that has had quite a bit of football success and has garnered quite a bit of national standing. Not sure that they meet any sort of high academic standards. They’d round out a potentially reconstituted Big XII North, and they also have a rivalry with BYU (as well as a recently developing one with TCU), so that would add to the new Big XII dynamic as well.

Decided to expand that list to give a broader perspective.
These are home attendance avg. for 2010 (relying on Phil Steele for this)—

5 Texas 100,654
11 Nebraska 85,664
12 Oklahoma 84,738
13 Texas A&M 82,477
14 Notre Dame 80,795
22 Arkansas 68,932
26 Missouri 61,540
27 BYU 61,381
28 UCLA 60,376
32 Texas Tech 57,108
34 West Virginia 56,325
40 Pittsburgh 52,165
41 Oklahoma St 50,812
42 Louisville 50,648
43 Kansas St 49,816
49 Colorado 46,864
54 Iowa St 45,395
55 Kansas 44,851
56 TCU 42,466
58 USF 40,849
59 Air Force 40,093
61 Baylor 40,043
74 Navy 32,653
75 Houston 31,728
76 Army 31,667
79 UTEP 29,350
82 Rice 25,571
84 Memphis 23,918
85 SMU 23,515
86 Tulane 23,220
87 Colorado St 22,400
120 Ball St 8,947 (last team)

I say suck some Mizzou dick, get BYU and AFA and call it a day!

Also, I’m not sure what the point of comparing home attendance rates is.

Generally helpful? Perhaps. But discussion of attendance seems to build on a faulty understanding of correlation and causation, without taking into account a vast number of variables.

For example, fan support, conference prestige, stadium size, and on-field success are all interrelated with one another. Tweaking one of those variables (conference prestige, for example) can seriously impact the others.

In other words, taking a school with lower average attendance and putting them in a better conference could jump up attendance, as games suddenly have more meaning and thus create more fan excitement.

To try and use average attendance as “the” variable to designate the ideal Big XII addition doesn’t really work.

imo, the notion that TCU brings nothing to the table is incorrect. first, it gets us another game in DFW every two years. one can make the argument that we don’t need this — that DFW has been our most fertile recruiting ground. This is probably right, but I still view it as a plus, despite the fact that OU will offer the same pitch.

Secondly, I’ve previously suggested that there is a tipping point in the calculus of consideration when weighing a regional team that doesn’t bring many TV sets vs. a half ass team in the midwest or southeast that does bring TV sets. WRT a Louisville or Cinci…more TV sets are earned, yet transactional costs increase considerably, particularly for travel expenses on non-rev sports. Additionally, Deloss made the point repeatedly that they don’t like the practical aspect of flying athletes across time zones to compete. You can choose to dismiss this as lip service or cover, but I do think the point is valid. Admittedly, this particular point could quickly become moot if WVU or Louisville is offered.

Finally, I think it’s a worthy exercise to view this move through the “middle finger to ATM” lens. as previously mentioned, the ags and frogs have been directly competing for many recruits. adding TCU clearly aids the TCU cause. the argument can clearly be made, from the UT & OU perspective, that you do this at your own peril. That said, I think the recruiting perspective presents a more immediate problem for the ags.

is TCU a dreamy addition to the big 12? of course not. They’re not likely to sustain the football success they’ve achieved over the past few years. their enrollment and alumni base is comparatively low. they’re essentially a local brand. But adding them to the big 12 certainly is convenient, particularly given the timetable we’re working under. This gives us a couple of years to grown the LHN, consolidate our Tier 1 and Tier 2 deals, and hopefully be in a better position at the expiration of the deals.

Hopefully the Big 12 is preparing to put the final nail in the coffin of the Big East.

The Big 12 should invite all of the Big East basketball schools plus UConn and Rutgers for football. If the Big East dissolves, BCS conferences are reduced from 6 to 5 and the Big 12 becomes more valuable to the TV networks by default.

Big 12 basketball becomes the best in the country and the conference tournament can be held at Madison Square Garden.

Big 12 football would still be better than the ACC, the Pac 12, and probably the Big 10.

I argued against the move to 12 teams before because of the dilution effect, but if we’re in the Big 12 for just 5 more years, the smart play is to destroy the Big East and guarantee a BCS conference home for Tech and Baylor giving Texas the freedom to go Big 10 or Pac 12 in 5 years.

Goin’ ugly early. Might as well if the bar is full of toofless two billers.

RE: Division splits.

Actually, I think the best choice for both Texas and OU is to be in the SAME division. While it makes it a one game season for both with respect to a conference title, it allows the loser to play their way into a BCS at large slot. If they are in separate divisions, most years they’d meet in the title game, and the loser is out of the BCS.

Also, I think the game at the State Fair would lose some of its luster if there was a rematch most years in the conference title game.

And finally, it allows some school in the other division to move into the upper echelon and lessens the perception that it’s a two team league (unless the title games are consistenly blowouts).

Of course, once we move to a play-off, conferences and divisions become almost meaningless.

“In other words, taking a school with lower average attendance and putting them in a better conference could jump up attendance”

After $175 million in renovations that have already begun, capacity at Amon G. Carter Stadium will still be at only about 43,000.

This isn’t about the next 50 years of Texas’ conference home, it’s about the next five-ish as the LHN grows to prominence. We’ll probably end up with TCU, BYU and maybe another and keep things rolling with Texas and OU as the big fish in a small pond.

As the ball keeps rolling towards superconferences, more schools launch or explore their own networks and Larry Scott (or his successor) take a look at a map and realize that Texas is their ONE geographically realistic chance to avoid permanent third place in a superconference world, we’ll ultimately end up going West with at least OU. Or we’ll form our own thing. Regardless, anything Big XII-related is temporary.

In the interim, I’m happy to have the Frogs on board as Patterson runs a quality program and it’ll be nice to have another conference game in DFW vs. Columbia (where I was just never going to visit) or hell, even B/CS (where I will never set foot again in my life after their pitiful display in ‘99). I also like the angle of Mack going full bore in directing every Texas recruit we don’t have room for to TCU instead of A&M.

This sucks. Stop telling me she’s pretty. I know what a hot chick looks like, and none of these girls are good looking.

What’s the interest in a hot chick, anyway? You just looking to dip your wick, create the next generation, add a trophy, or what? What about a good – scratch that – GOOD cook? What about an only child who’s gonna inherit a 150,000 acre working ranch?

I think that travel considerations for WVU and Louisville will be minor. In PAC we would have been an outlier, meaning most games would involve heavy travel. Adding an outlier which we have to travel to every other year is a minor inconvenience. The concern would fall on WVU, they would be the ones with the problem. This would be a bad move for them, however it may be the lesser of two evils, the other being an increasingly lame Big East

If you lose Mizzou, Colorado, Nebraska, and ATM and replace that with TCU and ANY three schools you can get outside of ND you are a net loser and a big one.

Fuck it, DeLoss is in serious danger of way overplaying his hand on the LHN. I am getting to where I dont really buy this master plan bullshit the Big Cigar is laying out there unless the end game is Pac or Big and I dont see that right now. We are looking at 5-6 years of garbage matchups right now.

Wait until an undefeated Texas gets frozen out of the MNC game and see how you like that. Our SOS is going to be shit.

As it stands now Stillwater OK will be the crown jewel of our conference road trips. Thats really awesome when you consider we could be tripping to Ann Arbor, Happy Valley, Camp Randall, The Shoe, Lincoln, and ND. Stellar.

And seriously, nobody gives a shit about the travel budget for womens field hockey. Texas has more money than God, we can fund that without the LHN.

Some new news: like I’ve been telling people, it seems Mizzou may not have enough votes to join the SEC. They may have just pulled a Boren.

Birmingham News with the story:

hxxp://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/10/majority_of_sec_presidents_fav.html
(replace “hxxp” with “http”)

Let’s stop the whole idea that Texas will have a seat in any conference we want BS. With the LHN, that is not the case. Could the PAC and/or Big X possibly make concessions to work around it? Yes. Is it a given that we could pick whatever conference we want and they will welcome us with open arms? No. The PAC already proved that. And if you think that the Presidents of schools that have given up their third tier rights to a conference are going to vote to let us come in and keep our own network, I say you are delusional.

That being said, our options are try to make the Big 12 work for the time being or go Indy. If we want to give the LHN time to grow, then this is the reality. The conference has to stop the bleeding and start adding – like it or not, TCU fits most criteria just fine out of the available options.

I am not thrilled with TCU and do not think they along with BYU adequately replace the schools the conference has lost, but I am also content that this is the reality that we have to face if we want to make LHN work.

“The Big 12 should invite all of the Big East basketball schools plus UConn and Rutgers for football.”

Rutgers doesnt get much run, but it has great potential. It is State U for New Jersey and a recruiting hotbed. Plus, most of their graduates end up in the largest single television market in the country. And, while college games do not get the ratings of the pros there, one might reasonably conclude that an upgraded conference and schedule would make a difference. Their stadium currently seats 52,454 and the school is huge with 56,868 students combined.

They are not a geographic fit, but the chance to snare that television market is a powerful inducement. Someone, someday is going to take advantage.

I think that travel considerations for WVU and Louisville will be minor. In PAC we would have been an outlier, meaning most games would involve heavy travel. Adding an outlier which we have to travel to every other year is a minor inconvenience. The concern would fall on WVU, they would be the ones with the problem. This would be a bad move for them, however it may be the lesser of two evils, the other being an increasingly lame Big East

Finally. I agree with bullzak. Well put!

The possibility that Mizzou overplayed its hand is quite possible. The similarities with OU are striking. The President and AD by many accounts were not strongly in favor of leaving, it was the political appointees on the Board of Curators who were swayed by popular sentiment into taking the vote.

Jim Wacker,

You do realize that the new re-build at AGC was done in such a way the stadium can easily be structured to exceed 50K . I could be wrong, but the number I thought I heard was to easily expand to the mid 50’s which would put us in a similar neighborhood as KU, KSU, Baylor, Okie State (after their recent rebuild) ISU, Mizzou and about 10K less than Tech.

There was not reason to build a 60K if you aren’t selling that many tickets. TCU wasn’t, didn’t, but will have the ability to go to above 50K if this does happen and they do sell the seats.

Something with which I agree, from Dagga’s link:

“Missouri isn’t a good SEC fit. While it would alleviate unbalanced schedules and add cable subscribers for a potential SEC Network, it’s a cultural head-scratcher, the SEC’s version of Boston College in the ACC.”

Interesting also that some people think they could do better. That’s kinda Missouri’s station in life, and has been for a long time, sportswise.

i don’t care what the sec presidents think, i think it’s time to give mizzou their walking papers. they’ve been nothing but trouble for two years, now, and i don’t think that’s going to change, regardless of the sec vote. they want out. let’s put them out. they’ll end up somewhere (sec or other) where they won’t be happy and will flutter their lashes every time the b1g talks expansion and get all pissy about something.

in the meantime, let’s agitate to get hs football off that u-miz tv station. fair, after all, is fair.

Ern, I agree. I don’t anticipate them filling up 12 slots until they hear from Missouri.

Updated post with second item.

pending sign-off by all institutions.

AND

Missouri once again abstained.

If all are required, isn’t it already dead?

Also, pretty interesting that in Bohls’ article this morning, both Dodds and Castiglione said they were in favor of 10 teams. Both said that they see the 16 team conferences as unmanageable and believe that it is possible that the money will ultimately not work for superconferences. One of the two actually said that they believe there is a chance that in the future the landscape reverts back to 10 team conferences.

If both UT and OU are in favor of 10 teams how things play out.

If Mizzou stays we may be done. Dodds wants the conference at 10, and I can see the ex-North schools supporting that so they can keep OU and UT on their schedules every year,

This abortion of a conference should be left to die.

Maybe if Boren sucks Slives dick and gets OU into the SEC this can all end. I hope so.

Mizzou is a solid school with no football related scandals. They are going to be pretty uncomfortable with the level of cheating it is going to take to compete in the SEC. ATM isnt uncomfortable with that at all. Thats the difference. That and the redneck factor.

Mizzou is a fit for the Big 10. Just hope they dont take our spot.

“You do realize that the new re-build at AGC was done in such a way the stadium can easily be structured to exceed 50K . I could be wrong,”

Not according to their own material. The post-reno capacity will be ~ 43,000.

“Capacity for the completed Amon G. Carter Stadium will be 43,000 with expansion opportunities that could allow for 50,000 or more in the future”

http://www.stadium.tcu.edu/news.asp

The portion of our fan base that cannot understand a few simple facts about making the big 12 work, at least temporarily, while we try to grow the LHN brand astounds me.

1) We are not likely to get frozen out of playing for a MNC in the next 5 years by being in this conference. OU is elite, some collection of 2 or 3 schools from amongst Tech, TCU, Baylor, OSU, and KSU will be decent every year, and, as I’ve said before, USC, tOSU, Nebraska, OK, Miami, and ND mock you for thinking a strong conference is necessary to play for and win MNC’s. In fact, exactly the opposite is the case

2) we will have as many decent matchups as we’ve had every year since the big 12 was formed. It’s instructive to note that the 2 years we played for a MNC OU was very much down, and we had 1 OOC game that meant anything (05 in the shoe). I think the 05 team only played 2 or 3 schools that ended up ranked- boy that 05 year really sucked, didn’t it?

3) Our OOC schedules are getting more interesting after being lackluster post 05/06 tOSU series

4) locking ourselves down short term doesn’t hurt us long term, unless you really think that every good conference out there is willing to say thanks but no thanks to Texas. If that’s what you think you have a room temperature IQ and I’m not sure how you are able to turn on your computer and work the internets

5) We can always capitulate, at a later date, if the LHN isn’t working or keeps us from where we need to be.

Yall seem to have the patience level of a 3 year old. If you can’t play with your toy right freaking now then the world will come to an end.

Relax- this is a short/middle term move for us if it doesn’t work out, and the only way it’s a long term move is if we want it to be.

Since so many of you like to use analogies with pretty girls, Texas is, right now, with our LHN network demands, about an 8. We are really attractive but we are looking for a rich man that will buy us a brand new house and brand new car and give us a $20,000 a month stipend. If it gets to closing time and we are running out of dudes to choose from we can always drop our demands, let it be known that we are willing to cook and clean a little bit and don’t need all that much money, and we become a 10 again. Nobody is going to deny Texas a seat at the table if we ultimately come down on our LHN demands. To think so flies in the face of reason and logic. We, as fans should be smarter than that.

According to Chris Level — “Big 12 Presidents took BYU off their list last week (not sure why) … If Missouri leaves it’ll be Louisville.”

Magic 8 Ball are you saying I am wrong or right?

What I find interesting is the way people act about the strength of the conference, but the conference so many here have talked about going to has been battered for some time about being weak.

Outside of UO and Stanford what stands out about the quality of the play in the PAC at this time? Does anyone believe Stanford stays at that level once Luck leaves the campus? UCLA has been a train wreck for years, UA is a school who everyone says is going to be good and then wins 7-8 games, anyone ready to believe ASU is for real, do we know what will happen at USC, Cal has slipped a bit as OSU, and Washington is getting better , but they aren’t there yet.

OU is the a national program UT appears to be headed in the right direction with the staff changes, OSU is solid, Tech can be solid, KSU can be solid, and Missouri can be as well if they stop bitching.

Outside of the SEC there isn’t a comparable conference in quality top to bottom, but do you really believe Mack and Stoopes want to trade places with Will’s schedule this year?

The only thing attractive about TCU seems to be that Boren and T. Boone want them. We seem to be conceding a lot to preserve the LHN. And now all the twitter traffic is saying there’s a snag with BYU, for some unknown reason. Louisville in the on-deck circle…

Pete Thamel (NYT) twitter updates added to main post.

I imagine BYU got crossed off the list because they have their own network.

I just don’t understand, I thought Texas always got what they wanted in the Big 12…

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel

Big 12 administrator just told me that the league is expected to settle at 10 schools.

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel

The Big 12 would like Missouri to be No. 10. “It looks promising right now.” If not, its moved on to Louisville.

Outside of UO and Stanford what stands out about the quality of the play in the PAC at this time?

I’m not a Pac guy but you’re taking too short a view. The Big-12 looks really good this year, but this is an ahistorically strong year for the conference. Sagarin’s conference rankings have had the Pac above the Big-12 six of the past ten years. And obviously a huge part of the Big-12’s strength derives from Texas and Oklahoma; the Pac-12 is a much stronger group of conference-mates for those two schools than the rest of the Big 12 is.

OU is the a national program UT appears to be headed in the right direction with the staff changes, OSU is solid, Tech can be solid, KSU can be solid, and Missouri can be as well if they stop bitching.

Very meh group outside of Texas and OU. OSU is okay, Tech is really a middle-of-the-road BCS program, and KSU is bottom 10% as far as BCS program resources go. You’ll see next year, when the conference is much weaker.

WULAW,

I agree the patience factor is at a minimum here. But I can’t blame people – you are asking a fanbase to be comfortable watching the conference implode largely for a network that few can actually see much less fathom the supposed game changing dynamics of. In the short-term, most would prefer to be in an interesting and stable conference that guarantees great games and good roadtrips.

That being said – I like what we are doing. I think a quick jump to the PAC or Big 10 would have felt exciting at first, but I think in the long run we are well served by being patient while we see what the LHN will actually turn out to be.

Historically speaking you have:
Pac=usc
sec=ala,fla,lsu
big10=osu,mich?
big12=ok,TEXAS
acc=fla st, vt, the u
bigeast=wvu?
I’m not sure anybody cares what the rest of the conferences look like.

Big Ern- the entire point they all miss is that we can still do exactly what you are saying if this doesn’t work out/isn’t worth it to us. Nothing is being taken off the table long term. NOTHING.

Worst case scenario texas has to scrap the LHN and we have a seat in any conference we want. Best case scenario all this stuff worksout, we have an awesome network, more money than god and go on a Nebraska in the mid 90’s type run with 3 MNC’s in 4 years or something like that. BTW- nebraska made that run in the big 8, with OU suffering through the Gibbs years by and large.

“bigdukesix said:

October 6th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

Outside of UO and Stanford what stands out about the quality of the play in the PAC at this time?

I’m not a Pac guy but you’re taking too short a view. The Big-12 looks really good this year, but this is an ahistorically strong year for the conference."

The Big 12 has more appearances in BCS bowls than the PAC. So they’ve been better than the PAC, on average, over the last 13 years.

ChipBrownOB Chip Brown

As Big East destabilizes, sources tell Orangebloods.com Texas is pushing for Notre Dame to move its "other"sports to B12.

What if we added BYU for football only and Notre Dame for the other sports? One takes the place of the other in scheduling. Could that be part of the plan and the reason there’s no announcement on BYU?

Wulaw, I get the long run value proposition.

I am not happy about having to watch abysmal matchups in backwater towns played in half empty stadiums for the next 5 years to get a network I have never seen. Moreover, I am as orange-blooded as anyone and outside of football, basketball and a couple of vintage game re-runs I will never watch it.

The Big XII has been gutted and cannot be made whole with the teams available.

Look at who has moved or is moving:

Nebraska
Colorado
ATM
Utah
Mizzou
PItt
Syracuse.

Look at who we are looking at:

BYU
TCU
WVU
Cincy
Louisville.

I dont think any of the latter group are as robust as the first group. Watching people convince themselves that Louisville has any sex appeal at all is pathetic.

Everyone assumes Dodds has total control over the end game. I say thats a lot of bullshit or the conference would not have imploded because that is not in our interest in any way.

Although I am no fan of TCU those attendance numbers are not really fair. Compare them when TCU is in a major conference playing home games against Tech, OU and Texas instead of CSU, Utah State and Nevada.

Saw some reports on 247 that the BYU issues were problems with the Tier 1 and Tier 2 rights, and that BYU has likely been taken off the list.

This caused me to choke on a spare rib!

“tx2step said: October 6th, 2011 at 9:06 am

I get that these are weighty decisions that are really important for all of the schools involved, but I just want to take a moment to say this to Missouri:

FUCK you guys, for distracting me with realignment BS during a week where my sole focus should be convincing the devil that I have enough of a soul to sell for a Texas victory.

That is all."

“Everyone assumes Dodds has total control over the end game.”
Huh?
I see a lot of UT fans that think no matter what happens, Dodds will make the moves to put us in the best position. It has been obvious that Dodds has no control over the BORs at other schools. Its only the fans of other schools that act like Dodds and UT have some power to pull all the strings in UT’s favor.

If the Big East loses it’s basketball schools, that conference is toast.

TCU, despite a damn good football run of late, is also a potentially parasitic in-state encumbrance just like Tech and Baylor when it comes to trying make our next move down the road. Another tether dependent on Daddy Longhorn and fearing a place in the Mountain West should we go. We’ve just added a TCU problem to our Tech problem. I can also assure you that you’ll grow to hate Gary Patterson’s perpetually offended ass and gratitude won’t be any part of TCU’s make-up as they make Texas their little Purple jihad.
  
Louisville is U of H with a functioning basketball program. A commuter school. They seem more palatable to you because they’re not in your state and you don’t know this. They’re also dirty as hell.
 
People throwing out names like Tulane and Air Force need to be beaten with an Economics 101 textbook.
 
I’m exhausted by all of this and fine with temporary holdovers to serve some longer term interests, but let’s not pretend that the conference looks anything but more rinky-dink when you lose A&M, Nebraska, Colorado, and Mizzou and add TCU/Louisville. Even if TCU could whip the shit out of all of them over the last decade in football.
 
I think a lot of Longhorn fans consistently confuse the best fan experience with what serves Belmont. They’re not the same thing. Sometimes our goals are even contradictory.
 
No perfect solutions in the short term, but a Notre Dame rabbit pulled out a hat would be welcome right about now.

Duke,

Let’s look at the PAC since 2000 and how many times have they had three strong football programs at the same time?

UCLA has done very little with all the resources available to them. In the last 9 years they have only have 4 winning seasons and pull UT off their schedule and who is their biggest out of conference win?

Cal has 8 winning seasons in 9 years, but they have not come close to their rank of 2004 and have slipped a bit.

UA has 3 winning seasons in the last 9, all in the last 3 and in each of the last two years gotten pounded by a Big XII team in their bowl game.

If UCLA hasn’t squandered the most resources then it is ASU with 5 winning seasons in 9 years and their high water mark was 2007.

USC has been a great program for the decade, but there might be some reasons for that success.

Stanford has only had 2 winning seasons out of their last 9. Hmmmm…..Harbaugh is with the 49’s now and they didn’t do shit until Luck’s sophomore year. Prognosis of this train rolling along not good.

Oregon State has had 7 of 9 winning seasons, but their out of conference schedule would be weak for a Div II school and they got their asses pounded by double digits in 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2009 when they did play a quality out of conference opponent.

UW has 2 winning seasons out of 9 with 7-6 seasons capping a long string of bad years. They are getting better, but they aren’t they yet.

Wazzu started off solid with 10-3 and a Rose Bowl birth in 2002. Then they got pounded by OU, did rebound the next year and have run off 7 losing seasons with each getting worse than the next.

Finally UO who had 4 average to good years in the five years between 2002-2006 before their program (or Phil Knight’s money kicked in.).

The schools in the PAC have populations, have some tradition, have athletes, and really haven’t done much with it. Does America really care that much more about Cal playing UA than Mizzou and Tech?

Heck, does the West Coast even care?

Blueshorn – I see no reason why ND would move their other sports to the Big 12. Sure, we’re probably pushing for it, for the reasons you describe. But the Big East isn’t going to dissolve in basketball. They have a bunch of mostly private, mostly Catholic, mostly good basketball-only schools. It’d be bizarre for ND to leave that to play KU, UT and a f*ckwad of meh.

Come on folks… listen to DeLoss… TCU is a same day bus ride for all sports outside football..
Helps with expenses and saves time for the kids to keep their grades in order.
It will get real when the TV contracts come up for renewal.

I think DeLoss thinks the Big 12 is viable and offers

Well, TCU is here, Just like i said. Old Jake L. tried to beat me up on that. So my next pick is Air Force. Not BYU. Air Force met in Dallas Last week with some Big 12 officials. My guess is if Missouri leaves Air Force will come alone. Its Possible if Missouri stays Air Force and another team get a invite, or they stay at 10. Folks the big 12 is not going away.

I’ll tell you guys that all of my friends here in SEC Country would gladly take TCU over Mizzou. They all see TCU as a natural plug in to replace A&M in the Big 12 and would love to add TCU to complete the 14 instead of the other options.

Of course they have no perspective to judge TCU beyond knowing that they have been top notch lately. They are shocked when I tell them of the small stadium and attendance numbers.

I’m good with TCU as it seems beneficial for everyone. It bails TCU out of the crumbling Big East and provides us with an easy plug and play to keep the Big 12 going until our ultimate plan plays out.

I also love that it effectively tells A&M that we equate them to TCU.

An opportunity that doesn’t exit in the other conferences…. plus he’s got a lotta say so on whom we pick for future dance partners

Scipio – You are missing the Belmont point. Our detractors have been right. Texas IS the conference bully and the addition of these wimpy schools does nothing to alleviate that salient point. In fact, it puts us in the cat bird seat. With the exception of OU (whom helps give the conference SOME legitimacy ) this conference is the Longhorn conference. We should revel in this – we want to own this conference. We want to be like OU in the Big 12 – OU and the 7 dwarfs.
A BCS bowl guarantee every year and cherry picking any recruit we want.
My God, how have I missed it all these weeks – the GENIUS of Powell and Dodds is now apparant.

Monty…. you and I are on the same page in regard to the Big 12

Snide Aside -
 
I haven’t missed the point. I understand Belmont all too well. I don’t enjoy bullying backwaters and guaranteed false metrics of success.
 
Texas maximizes itself when it challenges itself. Not when it’s complacent and can gather ten wins by rolling the ball out. Our history bears that out repeatedly.
 
There’s a certain portion of the fan base that would schedule Sam Houston State every week if it meant we can go 12-0. Because, hey, 12-0!
 
I’m not in that group.

Scipio, so explain to me why TCU is better than Tulane and Air Force? TCU likely nets us a guffaw from network execs when we ask them for more money because we now have TCU. Tulane and Air Force may not pay their entire bill of fare, but I find it hard to believe that TV execs wouldn’t see an opportunity to broadcast Big 12 games in LA and CO and pay the conference accordingly. There are no slam dunks here (ND excepted) so we are talking degrees of crappy. It seems like Tulane and Air Force offer a little less crappy than TCU. I don’t see any Econ 101 reason for adding TCU and you have noted all the other negative baggage that comes with them. I actually think the commuter campus trio of UH, Louisville, and USF probably gives us the most financial bang if BYU is truly out of the equation.

I think TCU is more of the conference telling Texas to take a seat. TCU does a lot to stymie Texas’s potential for future moves and it nets all the North teams another game in their only real recruiting ground. I guess that is a good trade off for having to split a decreasing pie into the same number of pieces.

Bullzak-

You are severly overstating the issue by talking about watching “abysmal” matchups.

Next year if RGIII comes back we will have

OU- top 10
Ok State-Ranked
Baylor- Ranked
TCU- Probably Ranked
KSU- Possibly Ranked
Tech- Maybe Ranked
Mizzou/Louisville?
@Ole Miss

Wyoming
New Mexico
Kansas
ISU

The first 8 games all have some interest, ranging from circle it on the calendar as a game of the year type, to top game in the big 12.

To say that schedule is putrid is way overstating. Hell, 2 of the worst 4 games have nothing to do with our conference and are more about us.

That’s also the kind of schedule that we can navigate to win a National Championship. FACT

OMG, the Big 12 just threw its doors open to all those coaches in Tarrant County

Ricky, you read my post and came away with “Scipio- TCU proponent?”
 
No one watches Tulane and Air Force. Let’s get Fordham to deliver that New York City market!

Before anyone accuses me of being a homer for the big 12 that’s not it at all. I’m simply saying that it is a very viable mid term proposition, and it is literally insane to want to capitulate on the LHN before we see how it works out. It could be game changing and some of the mouthbreathers in our fan base want to fold pocket aces when the board comes up 2, 6, 10 rainbow.

And I’m arguing that people who say our schedule is abysmal are seriously overstating it.

That schedule I just posted for 2012 is at least as quality as Wiscky’s 2011 schedule, probably more so- and they are on the short list to play for an MNC this year.

Scipio,

So what would your preferred route be?

Seems to me like there are only two options:

1) ditch the LHN now and join a much more exciting and competitive conference, knowing that you are trading whatever the potential future of the network is for the promise of greater stability.

2) deal with the reality that the Big 12 is going to be a rinky-dink piece of shit that resembles an Okie’s 1995 Ford Ranger, but you get to keep the LHN. Adding somebody was necessary, and I am still not sure that I see any alternatives that are much more attractive than TCU. Louisville, Cinci, AFA are not all that attractive and it sounds like BYU will be an impossibility with ESPN owning its Tier 1 and Tier 2 rights.

I guess I just don’t see how we can complain about the TCU addition, unless you are among those who has been questioning the wisdom of the LHN from the get go. This is our bed, and we shall lie in it for 6 years. Hopefully we have a dynamic national TV network to keep us warm.

TCU’s attendance will explode when they are playing Texas, Tech, and OU. Attendance may be good for Baylor and Ok State. Texas wants to hold the conference together for at least 6 years and make sure the Big 12 has at least 10 members. Adding TCU helps achieve that objective. My guess is that Mizzou is gone. UT has plenty of money. The number of TVs is way less important to me than the quality of football. TCU has been an excellent football team for several years.

Scipio said:

“I can also assure you that you’ll grow to hate Gary Patterson’s perpetually offended ass and gratitude won’t be any part of TCU’s make-up as they make Texas their little Purple jihad.”

So, A&M with upgraded cheerleaders?

Big Ern -
 
I like the LHN.
 
The LHN is not a non-starter with other leagues as it is portrayed. That’s an easy, palatable answer for journalists and fans to explain away some of our (read: Bellmont and coaches) preferences. Like the “we don’t want our athletes flying” nonsense while we talk to the ACC and use them as our back-up plan or when we were engaged in serious talks with the Big 10/Pac 10 just last year.
 
And we’re making massive concessions on Tier 1 and 2 rights to stay in the Big 12 – not in terms of revenue sharing and distribution, but in terms of the penalty phase of giving up rights and payments despite future conference affiliation. Adding TCU only increases the likelihood of a Big 12 banding together to keep Texas in the fold when the LHN chick grows into a hawk and it’s ready to fly.
 
The LHN’s core can absolutely be maintained within the structure of other more competitive leagues. We’re choosing the path of least resistance and revenue maximization. I’m all for revenue maximization, but at a certain point, it has diminishing returns and it’s not as if fans are going to see a break in their ticket prices or Bellmont is going to mail us a jet ski.

In the SWC days Texas used to schedule Top 10 and Top 25 teams for its OOC games. Those days are returning. We’ll add some harder OOC opponents to re-balance our schedule.

Let me add this..

From a huge perspective (recruiting) this was a must move for Texas and OU. As I hear, believe it or not, two SEC east schools (Ark and LSU) were pushing TCU and a$m was on board as well. These schools got this idea far enough for SEC officials to visit TCU in very recent weeks and begin the feeling out process. That alarmed both Texas and OU and the wheels began rolling much faster than expected. It was a move of defense rather than offense and in that sense makes a ton of sense. No way in hell do OU or Texas want the SEC in the metro-plex with a team.
So, if true, and I am pretty darn sure it is, this was a must move.

Wu Law has nailed it. There are no 10s out there other than Notre Dame, and they aren’t coming right now, but we have to pull in someone to get back to 10. TCU makes as much sense as anybody, especially if it gives the impression Texas is playing ball with the rest of the conference. It’s a small concession to give — TCU over BYU or Lousiville or WVU.

I am not saying DeLoss is in control and playing everyone like a puppet. I do believe, though, that the net positives if the LHN gains traction, and the options it might give us once established, outweigh the net positives of having given up on it right now and headed to the Pac 12.

I also wonder, even if DeLoss wanted to fold the LHN tent into a Pac 12 regional, could we without ESPN signing off?

If we really want to improve competition UT plays both in the non conference games and the post season games, an 8 team post season playoff is the way to achieve it. Until then, preserving the Big 12 as an AQ conference at least makes it straight forward to get to a BCS bowl game and even the MNC game. From a football quality perspective, TCU has been better than both aggie and mizzou for several years.

Might be a good idea to lobby the NCAA to change the rule for minumum number of teams in a conference to have a conference playoff from 12 to 10. That would significantly reduce the required number of games with northern Big 12 teams. The NCAA is pretty useless so maybe it can at least get out of the way while it is doing nothing.

Ricky, there are 8 million people in the DFW area, That is a BIG reason for wanting TCU.

Scipio,

Interesting. I guess I bought into that line of thinking and figured that Deloss and Powers had tried to push to have the LHN configured into the PAC and didn’t like where they were getting with Scott. Likewise, I would have assumed that there is no way the Big 10 Presidents were going to acquiesce to UT’s wishes to bring the LHN on board in any format. I have assumed that it wasn’t just about revenue sharing – which I think in the right conference, we could make big enough concessions – but about the fact that the Ohio States and Michigans of the world would never vote to allow us to have our own 24 hour recruiting machine while they are forced to share with Northwestern, Purdue, et al.

Texmex,

I had actually read a few similar things on other boards. Interesting if true. That would certainly make the TCU move make much more sense.

texmex -
 
Yes, we had to act quickly on TCU because the SEC couldn’t wait to grab them.
 
Despite the fact that TCU has been on the upgrade market for ten years and the SEC or any real conference has never so much as sniffed them.
 
It’s almost as if this is a story planted with credulous types meant to create a false sense of urgency.
 
I guess the SEC will move on to their next logical candidate: SMU.

if Texas was making these compromises last summer, we never would have gotten to this point to begin with.

Of the proximate schools available, TCU is the best and most logical choice to shore up the Big 12. TCU has fielded good football teams (better than A&M’s) under Patterson, and adding them re-solidifies the Big 12’s presence in the state of Texas.

The next Big 12 addition (no matter if Mizzou stays or leaves) should be a non-Texas school, with BYU, Air Force, and Louisville each a decent choice. It’s good to be the hunter rather than the hunted for a change.

Ricky, you should also know that there are almost 12 million people in the Greater Bay Area.
 
Getting San Jose State is an imperative.
  
Because if you land a school that sits in a geography, they deliver THAT ENTIRE GEOGRAPHY TO YOU.
 
Fact.

Is San Jose State available?

All I know is, I’m sick of this shit and it just seems like we’re digging ourselves a deeper hole. Lately, we’ve conceded virtually every point to our penis-envy partners so we can protect the LHN. And our partner in the LHN truly is the Evil Empire. It seems perhaps our braintrust miscalculated somewhere along the way. But we’re going to make a lot of money and that’s all that matters.

Hot dam is an aggy troll. Aggies and SEC have been sniffing each others’ butts for 20 years.

Scipio -

Good call on SMU to the SEC. Ha.

Also, I disagree that this is all about easy scheduling. I think it’s all about having our LHN cake; no more, no less. The weaker conference is a by-product of the decision-driver, imo.

hot dam is also completely wrong.

When does he propose we were supposed to compromise on LHN content last summer before the LHN was finalized this January?

Scipio,
I can certainly understand the wariness. It did, however come from a solid source. That is all I can say. We all have to determine what we believe or not. I just offered it up as I felt it was interesting.

It’s almost as if this is a story planted with credulous types meant to create a false sense of urgency.

This. No way I’m buying the TCU to the SEC nonsense.

The LHN’s core can absolutely be maintained within the structure of other more competitive leagues. We’re choosing the path of least resistance and revenue maximization. I’m all for revenue maximization, but at a certain point, it has diminishing returns and it’s not as if fans are going to see a break in their ticket prices or Bellmont is going to mail us a jet ski.

Bravo Scipio. As usual you’ve done an outstanding job of cutting to the core of the issues. I agree wholeheartedly with everything you’ve said on this post.

I love the university, and love the Longhorns, but I get really tired of Bellmont at times. I understand that the fans can’t always be the first consideration, but it grows tiresome that they are NEVER the first consideration in anything if a few more bucks can be made. It seems that no amount of money, however obscene it is, can ever be enough if there’s more to be made.

One benefit of expanding back to 12 teams would be to increase the number of non-conference games from 3 to 4.

We can all agree that the conference implosion was incredibly shitty timing for the LHN. It needed a stable two or three year foothold to allow us to make our next move on our terms.
 
Also, this all just arguing around the edges. The nice thing about being Texas is that…
 
We’re Texas.
 
We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
 
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
 
That’s Texas.

I think it’s all about having our LHN cake; no more, no less. The weaker conference is a by-product of the decision-driver, imo.

Yep. We’ve got the tail wagging the dog.

It isn’t just about the LHN, it is also about control. Texas doesn’t want to end up in a 16 team super conference tightly controlled by somebody like Scott or Delaney. Texas wants time to grow the LHN in a conference that is just happy to exist. Down the road (6 years, for example), when the LHN is mature and maybe a post season playoff is in place to simplify OOC conference scheduling, Texas can create its own loosely coupled autonomy emphasizing conference with like minded schools or just go independent.
 
The current Big 12 moves are just buying time and preserving options/autonomy.

Is a watered down Big 12 really that bad if Texas can still schedule non-conference opponents like USC, UCLA, and Notre Dame?

Is there justified fear that at some point Texas won’t be able to schedule high profile Pac 12 or ACC teams?

Scipio, where did I suggest you were pro-TCU? I am just trying to figure out why the conference has decided TCU is the pick when it seems to go against the whole paradigm of conference expansion that we have seen recently.

The whole talk of realignment is expanding footprints even if it means bringing in a weaker product. The SEC brings in a crappy A&M program that no one watches because they think it will net them more TV dollars. And the ACC brings into schools that do nothing more than raise the conference’s basketball profile.
I don’t see how Tulane, Air Force, Rutgers, or San Jose State for that matter is any different than taking A&M or Missouri, just not writ quite as large. If we added Tulane, do we really not get any more Big 12 games shown in the state of LA? Would the conference be locked out of Colorado if we take Air Force? The Big 12 saturates DFW televisions already, so as most of us will agree, adding TCU only brings another mouth to feed. I know Tulane and Air Force aren’t ideal dance partners and I would hope either would fall way down the pecking order, I am just shocked that the conference decided TCU was a better option than BYU.

We won our last Rose Bowl game. Texas didn’t. And it seems we have also have the better of the two starting NFL quarterbacks in Ohio.

TCU will be the next Miami. Without the slime.

It’s gonna be a lot of fun for the next six years. After that? Everyone knows you guys already have the divorce court judge on retainer.

Maybe we’ll beat SMU next year. A Frog can only dream…..

TCU isn’t officially a member of the Big 12 yet, and already we’re getting attacked by TCU trolls.

Thanks Scipio for taking the mantle. I had to get off this board after some of the postings I saw. Do people even understand what makes college football great? The only school out there besides the pipe dream that is somewhat attractive from an athletic standpoint is West Virginia.

Guess what, the fans lose again. Have fun with that home schedule. That’s money well spent. See you guys in Dallas every year at the state fair until they ruin that too.

Philly Frog,

Already with the aggy-esque comparisons?

By the way, Miami wouldn’t have been Miami without the slime. Keep dreaming stoned froggy.

SMU does not fill its little stadium, and does not at this time, have the local following of TCU. Ask almost anyone in DFW and they love TCU football. Does not matter if they are Alumni from Texas or Oklahoma, or any other big 12 school, everyone likes to have a home town team. Im going to check on season tickets, I will cheer for TCU until the Horns roll into town. With 8 million people in this area , its about time we had a BCS school. I guess Gary Patterson on tuesday, when he went on a rant about SMU and June Jones, knew what was coming. He said, TCU would no longer help SMU. I guess SMU will be scratched as a game. Gary will want to go the Oklahoma route and play the Ball States of college football, in non conference games.

My wife is a horned frog so I’m a little biased, but here’s the way I see it:

Sure we don’t get TV sets out of TCU, but do we really need TV sets that badly?… we already have $15 mil a year guaranteed. What TCU does do is reaffirm the Big12 as THE Texas Conference. The second benefit is that its an upgrade from A&M in terms of quality of football. Sure TCU might go back into a slump in 5 years, but there’s no reason they have to. Historically they have a stronger football tradition than A&M (just compare their national championships in football).

To be as successful as they want to be in the SEC A&M has to sell Texas recruits on the idea that local conferences no longer matter, it’s every man for himself and playing locally is a thing of the past. Bringing TCU into the Big12 reinforces the idea of it being a Texas centric conference and sets up either TCU/BU/TTU to eclipse A&M permanently as the 2nd best Texas team. TCU’s lack of alumni will never let them bring TV sets like an A&M would, but I think they have the campus and the coaches to be a recruiting force in Texas.

Actually, Texas did win our last Rose Bowl game. The game we lost was the BCS National Championship Game played at the Rose Bowl stadium. Ohio State beat Oregon in that year’s Rose Bowl game.

The only school out there besides the pipe dream that is somewhat attractive from an athletic standpoint is West Virginia.

This is the truth. I wish we’d get them. Instead we apparently have Louisville above them. If we pass on WVU and take Louis I will puke. And don’t talk to me about Basketball. I don’t care about it and besides WVU has been good in that arena also.

I have lived in Dallas for 8 years. I have yet to meet a person who did not go to TCU who gives a shit about TCU football. I have met perpetually khaki-clad Park Cities dwellers who root for SMU despite never having set foot on campus. But TCU – they might as well play in another state as far as the folks around me are concerned.

Philly Frog,

Stop with that damn “we are the next Miami” line. It is tired and it isn’t going to happen because Miami was forged in a very unique environment back in the early 1980’s that does not exist in the Metroplex.

We can be a competitive program and what we do bring to the Big XII is a stable member who isn’t looking to bolt, has made commitments to its programs and schools, and is not in the same place now as Baylor was when they entered the Big XII in 1998.

As pointed out many times before, if the Big XII truly needed a 10th team, BYU was off the table due to the Tier 3 rights, ND isn’t coming, then who brings the conference stability, a competitive program, and isn’t halfway across the country?

Louisville could be misinformation. West Virginia is the better choice. But I wouldn’t mind having Rutgers, UConn, and all 8 basketball schools of the Big East too.

After reading the frog gloat disregard my last post. TCU will have the dog snot kicked out of them next year Philly frog.

Philly’s gonna make me regret rooting for TCU against Wisconsin.

I’m with Monty and Bob. Funny how 1 troll can just ruin it for an entire fan base. I was one of the few of us that was relatively happy to be saving an up and coming program like TCU from the Big East.

Bunbury,
A Texas-centric conference is, in the long term, a dead man walking. The only hope is if there really is a mass movement back to 10-team conferences. A Texas-centric superconference isn’t ‘super’. If the SEC, Big 10, Pac 10, and ACC all go to 16 teams our conference won’t exist anymore because we have too many redundancies in our TV viewing areas. We don’t generate enough TV dollars to keep teams like OU, Missouri, and Kansas in the fold over the long term and adding TCU only exacerbates the situation. Sure we are OK in the money department but over time this conference is going to make less and less compared to the other conferences and those millions of dollars a year will be too much for those teams that have options to pass up. And if there is an agreement by the 4 superconferences to lock out all others from the biggest bowl games or a playoff or a championship then we would be bailing on the conference as well.

I like the move to keep the conference alive for the short term, but I hoped we might make a real expansion move just for the slight hope that the dynamics allow the conference to survive beyond the near term. I am not sure how TCU makes the conference more viable.

I bet DeLoss gets a kick outrageous reading the posts here at BC. he’ll, I wouldn’t be surprised to find out he’s got recruits from the I.T. school posting “talking points” to move the conversation the direction he wants.
Perception is a strong tool when implemented correctly.
Hey DeLoss, give me a call. I’ve some ideas you may be interested in. Heh heh heh

TCU has consistently had higher national TV ratings than A&M. and if people think its large alumni base means automatically having more TV sets they are wrong. Just ask the University of Miami , another private school. They were Johnny come lately’s but became must see TV for a decade or more.

TCU is the just right team.
I’d prefer SMU for the 10th so the conference would have that rivalry.

Hook ’em

I agree Jet

4 Texas teams does not make a 12 team conference “Texas-centric” and certainly not a 16-team conference. Weren’t we all pining for the 4 California team Pac-12/16?

Davey – What do you mean by your comments on BYU’s third tier rights? They have their own network. They would be happy to move to the only AQ conference that allows schools to have their own networks I would think.

Outrageous should have been “outrageous”

Ricky,

If those three conferences go to 16 teams each Texas is going to fit into the mix somehow.

Heck if I know how, but then again I never understood why we got an invite from the Big East and still not real clear on the Big 12.

What I know is we did, it is in our best interest to take in even though I think there will be another round of changes in 5-6 years and I can hope at that time we have positioned ourselves to be included in the club so to speak.

As I said before, the play was in the PAC for Texas and OU plus a couple of spare parts, that fell apart, and this is a step to provide stability for the Big 12 for a bit.

I’m concerned about Patterson. My hope is that he turns his forces of evil and sniping to the Aggies. I’d like the Aggies and their new SEC bravado to give the Texas schools a common enemy and an outlet for frustration and blood letting.

Outta

Smartphones have trouble posting on this site.

OK, too much damn whining.

Let’s recap some obviously forgotten points from discussions past:

1) UT has signed over its third-tier rights even if/when we join another conference. What this means, in all likelihood, is that if we wanted to join the Pac 16 or B1G right now ESPN would intervene. They’ve got even more invested into the LHN that Texas does and they’re sure as f*ck not going to just hand it over to Fox and Comcast without a payday that no one would currently pay.

2) UT signed over those rights because ESPN promised to give us a minimum of $15 mil a year for it. Someone tell me how that was a bad business decision. Per Dodds’ interview in the Tulsa paper a few days ago, fully half of that goes to the University proper. A new 7.5 million dollar annual revenue stream may not sound like much but the University is a high-expense, low-margin organization with its AUF dropping by about ten mil a year. That bit of extra cash puts some pressure off of tuition increases. Ultimately these decisions aren’t made by athletics, they’re made by the BoR and the President, and forsaking that revenue stream when the only way to replace it is by raising tuition isn’t going to be a minor issue to them.

3) UT had very little control over the subsequent unrest in the conference, and furthermore i don’t think the extent of it was easy to foresee, especially since loudmouths at ESPN, A&M, BU, Mizzou, and OU all seemed to conspire to make it much worse. I think this is self-evident, but if someone wants to challenge me on this, make your case.

4) Given the options, UT couldn’t turn water into wine. They tried but it didn’t happen. So we’re making Grape Kool-Aid. Sorry if you think Grape Kool-Aid sucks. But it’s not exactly easy to turn water into wine and I think people should just settle down and appreciate what we’ve got. Which is basically the same thing we’ve had for years, plus a purple tongue.

MONTY -
 
No on the TV ratings. People watched TCU in the Rose Bowl because it’s THE FUCKING ROSE BOWL. You’re like a factory of babble. I’m in awe of it at a certain level.
 
And another Miami in the 80s comparison.
 
I need an infinite face palm icon.

Paul Finebaum spreads more misinformation here:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/paul_finebaum/10/06/texas/index.html?sct=cf_t11_a1

Does no one understand that the SEC does not share Tier 3 media rights? I responded with this:

Paul,

I think the article you wrote for SI today was self indulgent, devoid of actual facts and more appropriate for an Alabama or Texas A&M blog. You make a bunch of assertions and allegations and provide no facts.

"Selling out should be square in the Longhorns’ wheelhouse these days — assuming the price is right and everyone else suffers financially as a result."

I have to assume that you’re talking about the Longhorn Network here because you don’t explain yourself. But as Deloss Dodds has explained a number of times the LHN is the result of him trying to get non-rev sports on television. It was a response to the fact that Fox warehoused our third tier media rights and he thought it was a waste. He asked A&M to participate, but they lacked the vision, or the financial resources to take this on. The network Dodd’s pitched the Aggies is exactly what the Pac-12 is doing with their regional networks. Isn’t it disgusting that Texas is trying to make the most of 3rd tier media rights. That would never happen in the SEC. Oh wait:
"For instance, Florida makes $10 million a year from Fox Sun Sports. Alabama reported to the NCAA making $8.4 million from its multi-media rights in 2009-10; Auburn listed $4.6 million."
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/10/is_sec_reconsidering_idea_for.html

"However, short of SMU in the ’80s and the University of Miami since, has anyone done more recently to diminish the integrity of the game than the self-indulgent people who run Texas?"

So you would compare the University of Texas looking out for its own interests in an innovative way with two of the most outrageous cheating scandals in the history of college football. I think this says more about your SEC worldview than it does about the University of Texas.

"Who else could keep almost every other major university holding its breath waiting to see if the dominoes might start to fall and cause whole conferences to fold or endure massive realignment? How many national titles has Texas won in the last 41 years? Hint: The same number as Auburn, BYU, Clemson, Colorado, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh, Tennessee and Washington."

Cheap shot, apparently not beneath you. I would posit to you that the SEC’s success winning national championships has more to do with oversigning, lax admission standards, runners and recruiting dirty tricks than other factors.

"Only Texas pushed rival Oklahoma into being the frontman and taking the arrows."

This is nonsense, did you make this up? OU was trying to do what was best for them, which is Boren’s job. It didn’t work, they’re moving on, so should you.

"Finally, someone told these people where to go with their Longhorn Network since Texas officials weren’t about to give it up or share the wealth."

Texas A&M nearly did something remarkable by standing tall and telling its abusive big brother where to go."

Partially guilty, we beat them 2/3’s of the time. What is remarkable is that Texas A&M managed their athletic department finances so poorly that they had take out an interest free loan from the University fund in 2005, they’re still paying it back. They weren’t and haven’t been in the position to invest in a network or their brand. They need someone else to do it for them, hence throwing out a 100 year traditional rivalry and bolting to the SEC. A&M and the SEC conspired on this move to serve their own interests. The SEC for Texas recruits and tv sets and A&M for a couple million more dollars a year, and the laughable assertion that they want to compete with the best. Do you believe the SEC swooped in to save A&M from UT’s evil clutches out of altruism?

What is remarkable is that the SEC gets a free pass from "journalists" like you for poaching AAU schools in the best available television markets. Why? Yes, again it’s about money.

"Texas A&M University System Chancellor John Sharp stated today that the creation of the Longhorn Network was not the driving force behind the Aggies leaving the Big 12 for the SEC."

http://www.texastribune.org/texas-news-media/triblive/triblive-sharp-on-am-and-the-sec/

I get it when Barry Tramel writes this kind of stuff, he needs to appeal to his audience. You know what would be a really good article? One that looks at this issue in a multifaceted way. One that looks at tier 3 media rights, no one seems to be able to report this correctly. It would probably end up showing that each University and conference did what they thought was in their best interests, except A&M who sold out for a lifetime of SEC, SEC, SEC losses and irrelevance.

I’m ok with TCU, in terms of it bringing a good football team (the driver of all of this), and replacing the other Texas team that shall go unamed. I do think this hurts said unamed team’s recruiting.

What’s not clear is whether this is a move to get back to 10, assuming that Missouri is out the door, or the first step to 12 or 14. I think the powers that be think 10 is stable, while 12 implies a championship game that no one seems much enamoured of. So I won’t be surprised if we stop at 10. And if that’s the case, I guess I prefer TCU to the more distant options.

The other interesting question is what this implies for BYU. Does this lead them out in the cold? Because adding them now gets us to 11, which would imply the need to get to 12 or 14. It sounds like the short list of candidates is BYU, Louisville and Tulane. I don’t see S. Florida – it’s just such an outlier.

For those of you thinking several moves ahead, that TCU helps kill the Big East, which pushes ND into Big Algebra’s arms, I don’t see it. I don’t think they will ever come to Big Algebra. And with everything we’ve done around equal sharing of Tier1-2 rights and committing these rights for 6 (or is it 10) years, I’m less optimistic that Texas and ND does something else (BiG or new superconference).

I’m Scip in feeling a little deflated by all the exit strategies that we are allowing to close, ie, assignment of Tier 1/2 rights, and adding a TCU problem to the Tech problem. I was hopeful that we would let LHM mature over the next 2-3 years, and then move with ND, either to BiG or to a new conference we created that valued tier 3 rights.

One final plus – TCU has a men’s swim team, so we get to still have a conference championship (at least until Missouri leaves, then it’s back down to Texas and TCU). The top TCU swimmers in each event might compete against the #8 on our depth chart in each event. Woo-woo!

eldas -
 
That’s well done but Paul Finebaum is catering to a rather specific audience of SEC mouth-breathers. Have you ever listened to the unintentional comedy that is his radio show? He’s not particularly interested in looking at this in a sophisticated way. His audience couldn’t handle it.

wethorn,

So you are saying we can start printing those Big XII swimming runner-up t-shirts in the near future?

Y’all might be interested in what DeLoss has been posting and saying the last couple days..
he heads up the Big 12 "expansion committee ) and he said HE proposed (to the committee )and to offer TCU.

Dagga, question on your statement above…
“1) UT has signed over its third-tier rights even if/when we join another conference.”

It was my understanding that we signed over only tier 1/2 rights to the conference, even if we leave the conference, but that tier 3 was specifically held out of this. Can you clarify.

I’m not thrilled about the assigning of tier 1/2, because I think it effectively locks us in to Big Algebra for the long-term. I know everyone was seeking conference stability, but I’d have preferred to handle that with a higher exit fee, like the ACC. We could pay it.

Davy – I’m pretty sure the swimming runner-up shirts come with your BC tote bag…

Damn, Magnus threw up in mine at the last tail gate.

I agree with Dodds and the ou AD that 10 team conferences would be better. Even for a play-off system. That could be as many as 10 conferences to feed a play-off. It would spread the power houses around several leagues making it easier for them to stay on top dollar-wise and on the field of play.

Meanwhile, some people in the PAC, BIG, SEC and ACC are thinking four supers with at LEAST 14 teams. They may be happy to stop at 14 teams and leave out the likes of Texas, ND, and OU. They keep more money and avoid the stress of taking on teams that are very competitive on the field and in the conference offices.

Where is the realignment momentum currently taking college football? I think we are going ot need a lot more stroke than we have shown lately to get it to turn our way.

We have not signed over any 3rd tier rights.

We are the 2nd largest state in the Union, Population and square miles. we are the ave of 4 normal states. All SEC states wish they were Texas. Because of the states Girth, UT especially and the other big 12 south schools actually have the upper-hand if super conferences do develop. The main thing is you want to be able to use this huge State as a sledgehammer and bring several like minded schools with you to the negotiation table. Thats why the Big 12 is so important to Dodds. Once Texas and ESPN show how profitable #3 TV rights are to a school, The cart may even get upset in the SEC, big 10 and Pac 12.

Just my two cents. TCU is a great addition. It allows me to attend the game, which I could never do if it mean’t traveling to BYU or another long distance trip. I don’t care about TV sets or how many seats a stadium has. As for the LHN, I more than likely won’t subscribe to it,if all I get to see is two games a season.

wethorn – as part of our LHN contract with ESPN, if we change conferences or go independent, ESPN keeps every right they are assigned as part of the contract for the duration of the contract. Those rights include the television (and I believe, Internet) rights to all our third-tier content. The Tier 1/2 rev sharing agreements are with the conference, not ESPN.

I think a TCU schedule that includes the Big 12 schools will make them a bigger draw in the area. They become the local Big 12 school and I bet they start to pick up t-shirt fans (non pejorative) in the Metroplex. I think they’re a good start for adding teams.

I make no claim to knowing or caring terribly about TV markets, footprints, or Belmont’s overall intentions.

LHN is great, BTW. You’d all love it and it is not extra charge on Grande. Great piece on Berryhill earning his ship and the scout team last night.

Huck – LHN Contract, Sec. 2, Subsec. B:

Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Section 2, in the event that UT determines during the term, to become a member of an athletics conference other than the Big 12 Conference or not to participate in any athletics conference, UT agrees to continue to grant and provide (or to cause IMG to continue to grant and provide) to ESPN the Television Rights set forth in this agreement.

For all intents and purposes, that’s signing over the third-tier rights.

Texas signed over their third tier rights to ESPN for the LHN

@I Must Be Old – the reason you live in Dallas and don’t know anyone who cares about TCU football is … because … you live in DALLAS. Move to FW and you turn the tables. Difference is, that more people outside of FW care about TCU than people outside of Dallas care about SMU.

Expect to see TCU start eating aTm’s recruiting lunch for instate talent. The agros are going to crap a baby calf when that happens.

DeLoss Dodds tenure @the Texas
13is National Championships
103 Conference Championships
2011 Athletic Director of the Year
don’t play poker with this man unless you have money to lose.
Hook’Em

Scipio, Your reply cracked me up! face palm icon, lol. Lots of truth to it. Ive never lacked opinion or been beyond reaching into a old pile to find a comparison to present my view.

I’m sure i enjoy reading your knowledgeable Longhorn Article’s better than you like reading my replies.

I have so damn many points to make and mostly go for the shotgun effect.

wethorn -

Killing the Big East wouldn’t force Notre Dame to join the Big 12 in football, but it would reduce the number of BCS conferences from 6 to 5 and stop conference realignment until Texas is ready to take another look in 5 years.

If the Big 12 could add all of the Big East basketball schools, the increased basketball revenues could partly off-set the diluted football revenues and provide a solid conference to hand down to our little brothers when the next round of realignment hits.

Y’all should really look as Philly Frog as just another asshole from Philly and not representative of the average TCU fan.

I missed the to whom we sold them part. Mistook it for part of the granting rights to the conference discussion.

Huckleberry,

Calling 4 Texas teams in a 10+ team conference ‘Texas-centric’ is a bit of hyperbole by Bunbury, but I do think the realignment game is showing that 4 Texas teams in a conference is not a winning strategy. Texas and A&M are the only franchises any of the likely superconference players are interested in. Tech could get a nod from the Pac but I bet they would rather go to 14 and add UT and OU rather than go to 16 adding Tech and OSU. The Pac is probably the only likely superconference that can be forced into taking little brothers. Otherwise, there just doesn’t seem to be any likely superconference outcome that includes 4 Texas teams much less 4 in the same conference.

October 6th, 2011 at 3:03 pm

But actually listening to Dodds and taking him at his words conflicts with so many dreams, conspiracy theories, and realignment conventional ‘wisdoms’ of the pouty pouters around here.

Unless OU bolts, get used to the B12 and (at least) 5 BCS-level conferences, because UT will never go be an outlier in a P16/B1G/ACC/SEC when anchoring a 5th major conference is an option. It seems clear that is what Dodds and Bellmont want.

And another point: Virtually all recent signs/statements point toward the a renewed BCS moving to (at miminum) a Plus One model of 4 playoff teams. Dodds is on the committee that will negotiate the new BCS. If the new agreement limits the playoff to conference champions, history suggests that the B12 champ will be in that playoff 9 years out of 10.

I suspect more conference championships in the B12 will bring more prestige and top quality recruits than the likely fewer championships in a 16-school super conference.

Love how TCU was formerly not on the invite list but now is looked upon as second only to adding Notre Dame or Michigan to the Big Algebra.
Remember what Coach Royal said about TCU comparing them to cockroaches. “It’s not what he gets into and carries away but what he falls into and messes up.”

Looks like they are falling into your conference. LOL

I don’t care for it… I don’t like it, I don’t like it at all!

I know TCU has been upgrading their program (at least in Football) over the last 8-10 years, but give me a break, if they can only fill their Stadium up half way for a Portland St. game (I know I was there…), something is still wrong!

I feel like we’re going backwards when we add in discussion of a SMU or even UH. The Big 12-3+1 is getting nervously close to being a weak, bottom heavy private school conference as the SWC was… We need to be looking at schools like Boise State, BYU and West Virginia with National followings. Then mere mention of TULANE in this thread is like getting a Tabasco laced enema!!
Hook ’Em

Guyana Buffalo, I agree with your take in the broad sense. I think Dodds and UT want to anchor the Big 12 so long as it gets all the rights and privileges it currently has, but I am not sure how adding TCU strengthens the conference. BYU or WVU or even any other decent school outside our footprint seems to make sense in that there would at least be some hope of competitively increasing our TV deal in the future. TCU seems to tighten the noose on the Big 12 rather than creating stability.

BSU is like adding Tulane, except without any access to major TV market. Sorry, I won’t say anymore about Tulane. I don’t want them in the Big 12, I am just using them as an example of a program that potentially offers something to the conference that it needs much more than another good football team that doesn’t bring any TV viewers unless its winning 12 or 13 games each year…access to more markets.

I dont know what the seating capacity of TCu but 2009 they averaged about 38,000 butts in the seats. That number will go way up because of Longhorn fans like me taking the short drive to Ft worth. who the hell is portland state?

2/10 < 4/8 or 4/9 – we're not about to become a private school league hotrod

I am very, very unhappy with the TCU invitation. Too many small and/or private schools now, like the SWC.

Dagga – got it, and that’s fine because it means espn has it regardless of what conference we’re in, and it effectively means we can’t pledge it to a conference.

BTW, if Dodds and the B12 are wooing ND for everything but football, is perhaps offering most of the BEast bball only schools also on the table?

Aggie Lurking,

You do remember what DKR said about the Ags don’t you?

In regards to Missouri’s KOMU – it’s a LOCAL TV channel. NBC affiliate I believe, that is a true “NEWS” channel ran by the J-School and only available to the Columbia area. What it’s not is a “Network” for MU Athletics that is broadcast to the entire state with a National Broadcasting Partner ala ESPN & LHN.

Austin or any other city/town with a J-school could do the same without issue.

So you’re saying the University of Missouri brings in revenue from the station and the station shows high school sports, therefore the University of Missouri brings in revenue from high school sports being broadcast on a station on which the University of Missouri directly controls what does and does not get broadcast. But it doesn’t say Mizzou.

Got it.

Aggie Lurking, never was a public list, go troll the SEC over at a tiger fourm, see how they are laughing at you. Say the Razorback’s finally get off the odd man out list.

On the bright side, replacing Aggy fan with TCU fan seems to be a plus.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

“We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.

If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.

That’s Texas."

I LOVE this – well played. Can I use this as my signature?

So you’re saying the University of Missouri brings in revenue from the station and the station shows high school sports, therefore the University of Missouri brings in revenue from high school sports being broadcast on a station on which the University of Missouri directly controls what does and does not get broadcast. But it doesn’t say Mizzou.

And it doesn’t give Mizzou a recruiting advantage in the area.

Aggie Lurking,

You do remember what DKR said about the Ags don’t you?

I can’t wait. Go ahead and tell us.

DKR never said shit about the Ags because they aren’t worth the waste of good words.

Here is a little fact for our Aggie friend. DKR might have been motivated to say that about TCU because we actually beat his teams 5 times compared to their 3 wins. I believe the infamous “cockroach game” was not only the only game UT lost that year costing them a shot at a national title, but the 3rd time in 4 years TCU had beaten Texas and the only game Texas won in that time was a 3-2 victory. The Ags can look for a very long time (Might I suggest the second half of your games since you know what is going to happen anyhow.) and you won’t find a 4 game series that your team played DKR’s Horns that well or close.

You see Blueshorn, like most of Aggie lore it is all utter bullshit made up in their shaven heads. Think about it, even the quote that so many Ags like to site from Patton never was said about the Ags.

Davey – is this the Patton quote?

“Success is how high you bounce when you hit the bottom.”

You see Blueshorn, like most of Aggie lore it is all utter bullshit made up in their shaven heads. Think about it, even the quote that so many Ags like to site from Patton never was said about the Ags.

Well, I can abide cockroach metaphors easier than a bunch of skinheads jerking off in a jar. So Dagga is right – compared to A&M, TCU fans are a major upgrade.

As for all the rest of it, it doesn’t make a shit what any of us want. Que será, será…which I read on Twitter was a hit by Doris Day the last time A&M was in the Top 5.

I would prefer Houston/North Texas over Baylor/TCU. Much bigger schools and would help save taxpayers money. Might as well add BYU, Notre Dame, Tulane, and DePaul(bring back football) and start the Apocolypse division.

TCU will be the next Miami. Without the slime.

Miami circa 2012, sure.

Finebaum is only trying to rationalize the fact that the SEC took our idiot cousins.

There is only one possible reason I can deduce for the addition of TCU: geography. TCU is a relatively easy drive from Lubbock, Waco, Austin, Norman, and Stillwater.

TCU certainly makes little sense for protecting recruiting. If OU/OSU want another State of Texas presence for recruiting purposes, then you take Rice or Houston, not TCU. OU already plays yearly in Dallas. OU will not grab one more recruit from adding TCU whereas maybe they would with a consistent Houston presence.

TCU averages 35,500 in 3 home games this year. Not a TV draw at all. Ever. So money is no factor whatsoever in the TCU take.

TCU’s recent football success is a direct result of being in a weak conference, and, to TCU’s credit, holding onto a pretty good coach. But TCU’s ceiling in the B2 will be Tech/OSU level. TCU will be lucky to win the B2 every 12-15 years.

As Scipio points out, TCU complicates Texas’ future, too. More political headaches if Texas’ experiment with Tier 3 revenue turns out poorly. And if the TV experiment turns out great, even more headaches from the little Texas schools wanting the politicians to punish “greedy” Texas from ever wanting out of the B2 conference that “made” the LHN so successful.

Texas agrees to add a zero school, which, but for that happy geography, demonstrates that Dodds can still make monumental blunders. And TCU’s his latest lame-brained decision, which include certain coaching hires preceding Mack Brown.

Yup, geography. That’s it. Geography’s all TCU will give this conference. A 3-hour bus ride instead of a 3-hour airplane ride. Dodds blew this one.

Welcome aboard, Horned Frogs.

I’m a Longhorn letterman, but these latest weak and silly moves prove to me that the Big 12 is sunk, and geography is starting to force/limit opportunities for its teams to join one of the four other conferences that will have 16 teams for football (SEC, PAC, ACC, BIG 10).

We will never be offered one of the few remaining slots left without (1) abandoning (or sharply reducing) the LNH, and (2) agreeing to share revenues on a scale we have never agreed to before.

The LNH is also creating a higher-level conflict between cable providers, corporations, ESPN, lawyers, football conferences, and other schools that is rapidly turning into massive collateral damage to our university and it’s reputation. That damage could easily spiral out of control.

When railroads were put in, if your town wasn’t on the railroad—-it disappeared. Then when interstates were put in, if your town wasn’t on the interstate—-it shriveled. The four big football conferences are going to 16 teams, and there are only a handful of slots left. Then there won’t be any. I don’t care if you are Texas or Notre Dame or OU, you better get in on one of those slots or you’re toast.

XOVERX -

All of our expansion choices were bad.

Put yourself in Dodds’ shoes. You’re forced to replace A&M. Here are your choices: West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati, TCU, Rutgers, UConn, South Florida, and Air Force.

There are some positives to taking TCU that the other candidates didn’t offer:

1) The Big East is struggling to hang onto its BCS automatic qualifier and the Mountain West is struggling to get a BCS automatic qualifier. Both conferences would have been helped by TCU’s BCS records. Now the Big East is likely to lose its automatic qualifier status and the Mountain West is less likely to become a BCS automatic qualifier. Taking TCU from these conferences is kind of like playing BCS keep-away. It makes it easier for the Big 12 to get multiple BCS bids and the monetary and recruiting benefits associated with those bids.

2) Considering the SEC’s other choices for their 14th team, TCU didn’t offer TV sets or high attendance, but they did offer the SEC a media presence every weekend in the most desirable recruiting area of any candidate. If the SEC’s goal was to cripple Texas and force the Longhorns to join the SEC, adding TCU would have been a logical step in that plan.

The biggest disappointment is that Dodds caved on allowing the prohibition of high school games from LHN. Couldn’t we have thrown OU and the other schools a bone to make that happen. Maybe agreeing to a loosening of the partial qualifiers rule in exchange for high school games on LHN – a compromise that would have benefitted the recruiting of all Big 12 schools at the expense of the SEC.

Moses -

Please look at the map and tell us how the Pac 12 and the Big 10 would expand to 16 teams without Texas or Notre Dame, and why each of these conferences would want to expand if the net result would be less money for each existing member of the respective conferences?

There are only a few schools that bring enough TV sets to be profitable candidates for the Pac 12 or the Big 10. Most of those schools are named Texas or Notre Dame.

Huck,

I’m not talking about TV contracts. BYU makes no sense because it is massive religious school in Utah. One that kicks out student-athletes for getting their wicks dipped, too. To quote Axl Rose, “they make no sense to me.”

Toadvine, that’s exactly what makes BYU so appealing…even with their Nazi milkmen, A&M could still pull guys looking to dip their wick with a girl on the equestrian team! BYU will basically grab the Ross Apos from us, otherwise players will steer clear of the magic underwear. So once in a decade we lose a decent player because he is a Mormon. Better than watching Patterson grab the best athletes in the Metroplex because he will tell them they can play position they want and Momma can watch most of the games with nothing more than a short drive north or south.

The Big 10 is not expanding unless it can get at least a triple – that means ND, UT, Maryland, UVa, UNC. They aren’t making a move if all they have to chose from is Rutgers, UConn, KU, or MU. Those schools would just be fillers.

The Pac 12 is not expanding without UT. What are they going to do, take UNLV? SDSU? UNM? BSU? Wyoming? get real. They’ve already shown twice that they don’t want OU, OkSU, or TTU without UT. The only other school remotely interesting west of the Mississippi is KU – and the Pac ain’t taking KSU.

I’m not so sure anymore that 4×16 is the actual endgame anymore. The attractive and feasible choices available to the SEC, Big 10, and Pac 12 to get there are very limited, especially with the unexpected strength of the ACC.

UT is going to bide its time, develop its assets, and wait (and work) for a true play-off, at which point conferences become largely irrelevant.

“Ricky, there are 8 million people in the DFW area, That is a BIG reason for wanting TCU.”

Unfortunately only 30,000 of them give a rat’s ass about TCU. There’s the reason you should chase the Mormons instead of the Christians since after all it’s your conference now.

Ask any college football fan and about 90% of them will consider TCU an upgrade from aTm. Perception is SOS boost for UT, as TCU nowadays is considered a football power and perennially choking/underachieving is not. Rose Bowl victory and perhaps the best team of 2010 is the current image. Few fans care about chick basketball, the AAU, or US News rankings, so you can go ahead and eat that list..

Perhaps this explains the holdup on BYU, from a BYU message board:

B12 TV deal, as is, would be a significant step back…

… in exposure for BYU. B12’s deal has ESPN selecting only 18 games for Tier 1. Even in a 10-team confernence, that’s unlikely to produce more than 2 or 3 for BYU in a good year. Fox gets all remaining game except for one and can place those games on either F/X (comparable to Vs), one or more of their FSN regional networks, or on FCS. Fox selects one game to leave for BYUtv. In addition to our home games, our road games will be subject to the same deal, which means that perhaps half or more of those games will end up on a Fox regional channel or on a local affiliate.

As an indy, we have a minimum of 4 home games guaranteed on ESPN and we can write our own scheduling deals with our opponents to ensure that games don’t get buried (like OSU, scheduled pre-indy). Bottom line is that this season, all but one of our games, home & away are on ESPN. Under a B12 package, we’ll likely get 3 to 5 on ESPN, 1 on BYUtv and nearly half on F/X, Fox regionals or even local/online only networks. People should also remember that it’s not just BYU that would have concerns here, it’s also ESPN. If BYU just plugs into the B12 TV deal, ESPN loses several contracted games to Fox.

This has been an issue in joining the B12, especially when they needed the 10th team to replace A&M in the Fox deal as is to preserve it (remember, the Fox deal is signed with each of the 10 schools individually). This “minutae” as some fans call it, is in reality more described as the devil being in the details. BYU learned a whole lot from the MWC TV debacle. They’re not going to repeat those mistakes in the B12.

Bottom line is it may be far better for BYU to not be #9 or #10 replacement school, but #11 or #12 instead, with some negotiated exceptions. The current Big 12 schools all have regional fan bases. The B12 TV deal is structured for those regional fans. BYU has a national fan base and likely needs some tweaks to ensure the vast majority of its fans can see nearly all the games like the fans of all other B12 schools. With exposure and fan access being the BOT & BYU’s top priorities, they’re going to negotiate hard in this area.

http://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=7538493

Makes sense on BYU…

Guyana Buffalo, I hope and pray that the conference isn’t making moves based on fan perception. TV execs won’t care about TCU looking like an upgrade in competition. They see a school that has a small alumni base replacing a school with an enormous alumni base. They see a school that is located right in the stranglehold of the conference’s current TV viewing area. The main reason teams are fleeing the conference is that the other major conferences pay many millions more per year just on TV alone. If the conference wanted stability they would choose schools that at least have some potential of increasing the conference’s TV pay out. Maybe there aren’t any schools that really do that, in which case the conference is dead anyway.

The SEC and ACC have a plan, and we’re not in it. They’ll both go to 16 without us.

The slow-moving B1G and PAC don’t have a plan, and they’re slow. They’re also more controlled by geography than the SEC and ACC.

My guess is that Deloss, the LNH, ESPN, AT&T, and Time Warner hem, haw, fight, delay until we’re forced to either join the PAC or the B1G—but on their terms (ie, further limit the LNH and revenue hording).

It’s just flat embarrassing to see us invite one of the teams we booted from the SWC-Big 8 merger as being a team that will “strengthen” the Big 12. This ought to be a clear signal to OU, OSU, Tech, and the other conferences that the Big 12 is mortally wounded.

Guyana let me ask you a simple question that even you can answer correctly.

Do you think TCU was on the SEC’s list for team # 14 ?

“Aggie Lurking said:
October 7th, 2011 at 9:53 am
"Ricky, there are 8 million people in the DFW area, That is a BIG reason for wanting TCU."
Unfortunately only 30,000 of them give a rat’s ass about TCU. There’s the reason you should chase the Mormons instead of the Christians since after all it’s your conference now.”

30,000?
Do you just manufacture figures to suit your bias?

TCU is a DEFINITE upgrade over tAMU – and if rats are involved it is only the ones (AtM) abandoning the ship!

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