Texas-Oklahoma Post Mortem: Offense

great post scip…sums up my feelings exactly. Any sliver of hope to beat OSU?

Agreed, but I feared coming into this game that our total lack of a downfield passing game was going to kill us evenutally. OU has now provided a blueprint to attacking the Harsin offense and every team we play from here on out will do the same things unless we show that we can punith them. That’s why I would have liked to see us take a couple of shots deep, even late when it was out of hand. An interception 40 yards downfield is just as bad as one five yards downfield. Why not take a shot and plant the seed that we will? Ash seems to have the arm for it (McCoy clearly does not). I’m sorry, but watching lateral passes (somewhere Greg Davis is smiling) when you’re down by 30 just doesn’t cut it.

OU’s defense outscored UT’s offense 21-10, 7 points coming late in the 4th. Down 34-10 at half, UT could have packed it in and ran the ball and played D. The coaches played to win. Kudos to them.

Malcolm Brown is the real deal. I’ve been perplexed by the affection Mike Davis receives. The OL, especially the OT, was your concern at the beginning of the season. It is a real liability.

Yeah, I’m pretty much done thinking about it. I will say that where you blame the QBs I am more inclined to heap additional blame on the OL. WRs could not get open (none of them), OL was raped on every play, so QBs had no time and nowhere to go with the ball.

But the coaching staff bears some of that blame too — Iowa State showed that if we cannot run then cannot do much else, they just didn’t have the personnel to enforce that lesson. OU did. We should have seen that coming and planned accordingly. Although, admittedly, we may still not have the personnel to make any plan feasible. Still, I have to believe we could have come up with something better than what we showed?

So, on the topic of paying the piper, consider the following informal stats I put together.

OU’s roster has 24 guys from the Dallas/Fort Worth area, 8 guys from the Houston area, 6 guys from East Texas, and only 2 from Central Texas (excluding San Antonio, from which they have 2).

UT’s roster has 21 guys from Dallas/Ft. Worth, 19 guys from Houston, 14 guys from East Texas, and 18 guys from Central Texas.

If you want to know where the laziness in recruiting (and program softness) show up, look no further than the heavy Hill Country recruiting we have done over the past few years.

jt -
 
Sure, we could beat them. But they present similar issues for us that OU did on offense. Their D isn’t as good as OU, but we don’t have the horses to match them score for score.
 
I think we’re 4-2 after this weekend.
 
Amarillo -
 
I hear you, but it’s tough to thrown downfield when your pocket looks like a colander. OU lived in our backfield.
 
quigley -
 
You’re absolutely right. It was 21-10. Agree on the 2nd half sentiments.
 
Davis is pretty good, but he needs QB play.

Great write-up Scip, as always.

Interesting to see all of the takes (on other boards) on the QB play, as far who was the most impressive when both played poorly. Poor play aside, I still saw things that I liked from both, yet I still find myself most impressed with Ash’s composure, especially as a true freshman. I believe he has the most upside of the two.

What’s your opinion on the two-QB rotation? Do you think we should continue, or should the coaches just go ahead and designate a full-time starter, to avoid any possible controvery developing in the locker room and out of hand?

If they don’t, I foresee the " QB controversy" getting out of hand. The longer we go on.

I was thinking about this as I fell asleep last night:

Clever blitz packages are Manny Diaz’s thing, right? He’s all about coming up with unpredictable ways to get defenders into the backfield.

Shouldn’t our O-Line be used to having to always deal with that threat from practice? It didn’t look like OU was doing anything particularly fancy, and yet our OL consistently seemed to be moving backwards on every play.

That’s really what confused me most about Saturday.

scip, knowing what you know now about how OU dominated our OL line… what, if anything, would you have changed about our offensive scheme?

the play that keeps running in my mind was the first play in the ISU game where we faked a handoff to Monroe one way and then did a quick pitch to Malcolm the other way which lead to a nice 22 yd run. I think these plays were our best bet but i don’t remember ever even seeing this play run or something similar.

I remember reading the asset’s practice report last week and it was chalked full of predictions of harsin’s misdirection plays etc.. which would turn OU’s aggressive D against them. I don’t know happened and why didn’t we run more of these sorts of plays?

Was the Oline play THAT bad that Harsin couldn’t even call these sorts of things? I’m at a lost for words really.

To throw down field with an OL that can’t block and a freshman QB that can’t read a defense but has some wheels you ROLL THE FUCK OUT. I know this may have been tantamount to waiving a white flag, but shit, at least we give Shipley some time to work/work back to have at least a whisper of a chance of completing a drive sustaining play. There should have been 7x as many rollout calls. It may not get football geeks like LHS and p to lavish you with praise, but there’s calling double reverse gadget plays when your OL has let three guys come through free on each of the last seven plays and then there’s not being a retard.

How long until we are able to rebuild the O-line? Is it going to take 4 years or do we have good freshman/sophomore talent?

Your OL got exposed b/c they ran into a legit DL. Harsin successfully schemed around your weaknesses the first 4 games but there is only so much a scheme can do. You can’t run end arounds all day against NFL quality DEs.

I thought Diaz was really exposed too. You guys got very limited pressure on Jones and had WRs running free out there all day. For a guy who supposedly has a pressure defense, the lack of sacks and TFLs from his group is surprising.

Horns better get the young ones in the OL ready to play. Oklahoma brings 5 of its defensive front 7 back next year.

What I thought would be our best asset (defense) turned out to be our biggest liability. No pressure on Landry, open spacing for OU receivers and backs with positive YAC, and unability to create turnovers. On the flip side, can we all now put the Case is the second coming of Colt. He’s not even close. I agree that after this weekend, we will be 4-2 and I am hopefully that our two-headed quarterback will lose a head and we will develop Ash into the quarterback I believe he can become (see Kellen Moore at Boise, Andrew Luck at Stanford).

Spot on analysis as usual. I hadnt expected much of the O. We can’t throw downfield and we can’t block, so I think it’s pretty easy to defend us if you are a top-10 team. I shudder to think what would happen if we played LSU, which fortunately doesn’t look like it’s in the cards.

Very good analogy to a recovering addict for whom sobering up is essential but only a beginning. Then follows the painful process of acquiring the living skills (aka growing up) that were long neglected through many a bender. As with Saturday, it isn’t pretty to watch.

Agree also that when the opposing defensive front is living in the backfield, there isn’t much the OC can do. Fortunately, we won’t see another defensive front as good as OU’s this season. We keep working.

The difference between this and the early 2000’s is that this staff seems to get it. Two years after the last OU debacle (2003) we were hoisting crystal in the Rose Bowl. A similar phoenix act here might not even take a once a generation talent at QB. I’m in—no lacrosse for me.

If we didn’t already have a Darius White, Mike Davis would be our Darius White. Disappointing to say the least, I put it more in the appalling category.

I sort of stumbled out of the Cotton Bowl like Gus out of Hector Salamanca’s room.

Would like your response to JT question. I also read or heard that OU’s defense checkmated Harsin’s trickeration by having the D pursue in the direction of the blockers, not where the ball was headed as the play unfolded. Do you buy this? Couldn’t Harsin spot this from the box and make adjustments in misdirection?

Very thoughtful and entertaining analysis.

Hook em.

spot on

“David Ash was 11 of 20 for 107 yards, had a mercy touchdown, threw two bad interceptions, one a pick six, the other a pick nose, and was sacked four times. He reminded us that this is why functioning programs don’t start true freshmen QBs”

Its amazing when Ash showed up to campus we had 3 QB’s on the roster and in a just a few months Harsin figured out they couldnt play, which is why Ash played from the get go. So we had 4 in fall camp and the true freshman has the most upside!

You are correct sir, freshman QB’s are supposed to redshirt and watch from the sidelines etc. When are we ever going to see that again, hopefully next year if we can keep McCoy from transferring.

I am trying to think of coaches who woke up one day and said, “Damn, I used to be great. Gotta get back to that,” and it actually happened.

For a bit of hope on that front, google “Rick Fox Oklahoma Smith.” The look on Tubbs’ face has to brighten your morning at least a little.

Other teams suffer through injuries and have to play players out of position upfront to get it done, we are in no different situation right now and this staff needs to earn their paychecks. One example are the Sooners who suffered through massive injuries in 2006 and 2009 and still salvaged their seasons and even won a conference title one of those years…..I think they had to move a TE or LB to play center one of those seasons.

Even with stellar recruiting, injuries can make any team play guys out of position and we are now making excuses for ourselves. The only excuse above that I buy into is only having 5 months of a new scheme, otherwise the rest of it comes down to buckling your chin strap and coming to play and we didn’t on Saturday and that is on Mack and the staff.

The staff needs to make some changes on the offensive line (I don’t care what it takes) and get David Snow OFF THE FIELD and get Kelley on it now. I’m not saying Kelley is the best Tackle, but Hopkins or Allen need to move inside and Kelley is a better tackle than Hopkins or Allen at this time. I still think if Harsin would have just been patient and stayed with the running game instead of trying to throw it or run WR reverses in the first half that this would have been a 14 to 17 point loss. Running between the tackles and misdirection running with the backs was the core of the Boise Offense and I think we could have run for 200+ yards on them on Saturday if we would have stuck with it and kept their offense off the field.

What confuses me is how our run blocking seems to be night and day better than our pass blocking on Saturday, but we couldn’t run block in 2009 & 2010 to save our lives but threw it on almost every down. Time for Searels and Harsin to earn their money that is for sure.

I think you put too much blame on the QB’s. You said of the OL, “It’s not all on them.” Well, I would have made this article 95% OL weighted and 5% about the rest of the offense. They stunk up the Cotton Bowl so bad that it will take a couple of months to air out. I have to agree with Miketag on this one. Also, you can hardly blame the QB’s for this other than fumbling the football. They had no time to do shite and obviously haven’t learned to adjust to blitzes but that’s not on them I wouldn’t think.

Don’t know what it means but ou, Bama and LSU all LOOK like football teams: big, strong muscled up guys. We look like a ballet touring company. Nowhere was that more obvious than our outmatched offense against ou’s bigger, faster and stronger defense.

I’ve wondered for some time how it’s possible that we have this years-long on-going debacle at TE, and that position coach still has a job… Nice Guy Eddie Mack, you have a wakeup call on line one…

"Our offense never gave our defense a chance and they needed all the help they could get."

Word

Oklahoma State has an awful front seven that allowed 300+ rushing yards to a Tulsa team that played with its backup QB. As bad as our offensive line is I think they fair much better this weekend.

I am perplexed by our defensive ends. Simply put, they suck at rushing the passer. This is not about scheme anymore. We can only get pressure on the QB with numbers.

And the dueling QB’s experiment has to end. If this year is foresaken we have to grown with one of them and get ready for 2012.

Also would like to add that David Snow played so poorly that Chris Hall was watching the game somewhere laughing out loud. He has to find the bench in favor of someone. He is a complete and total liability. A four year starter as a senior too. This is not some freshman making learning mistakes.

“I am perplexed by our defensive ends. Simply put, they suck at rushing the passer. This is not about scheme anymore. We can only get pressure on the QB with numbers.”

+1000

Jeffcoat and Okafor are huge busts at this point along with Allen, Gilbert and Co. This is getting ridiculous.

Watching from my seats, it was not hard to see why the score was 55-17. Their defensive players were making better decisions quicker, which made it look like they were a step or more faster everywhere. Texas’ offense simply couldn’t keep up.

The defense seemed to be a lot closer to competing than the offense, and Jones’ nearly flawless decision-making disguised the fact that, for the most part, their run game was completely useless. Without him playing so well, the game looks like the first quarter to me.

But what kept nagging at me was that in a predictable, nonsense offensive system, and despite a QB who would be 3d string to what we saw Saturday, Texas stayed within 10 of them last year. Wow, the defense last year was good.

Sigh.

I was screaming at the TV, “Throw the ball, throw the ball, throw the – CRAP!”

This game made me realize we have to go with Ash. Yes, he made dumb freshmen mistakes, but at least he as an arm to go along with the greeness.

I’m not too down on Manny’s D. The corners haven’t been tested this year with the caliber of WRs as they were with OU. Even the multi-Griffins, Vashers, Huffs, Rosses got toasted as freshmen.

Take 55 and minus 21 gifted to OU by our offense and it’s 34-17. Defense kept getting shoved into a deeper and deeper hole by our QBs.

Coach Aloha, DB’s need some film study wiki-wiki!

I think the truth is in the middle, OU cant play any better, and I dont think we can play any worse, I think they will be more inspired Sat against OSU, not saying we win, but will be more competitive.

For those of you who want to put the majority of the blame on the offensive line: Ask yourselves one simple question, when the defense brings as many or more pass rushers than the protection and the offense runs a 3 step and the ball doesn’t get out, whose fault is that?

My angst during the game was lessened because of realistic expectations going in. But it still hurt. This staff will build Texas back to where it should be. If I recall correctly, the Chance Mock/Vince Young QB’d team in 2003 had a similarly devestating game against OU characterized by massive turnovers and OU defensive scores. That team went on to win a national championship two years later.

I know Ash is no Vince, but Harsin is no Davis either.

Thanks for keeping it real around here.

Longhorn Scott:

The answer is the QB, but the offensive line has to deliver contact to develop some passing lanes. We are not doing that and getting immediately pushed back off the ball IF we even get contact at all.

“I honestly don’t have the patience, inclination, or bandwidth to document the mistakes for all of these guys individually..”

This was exactly the most important thing being done over at Bellmont yesterday. In fact, everything connected with that line is more important than anything else we do in the next couple of years. You simply cannot beat a good team if your OL cannot block.

Did I miss something while drowning in my whiskey Saturday?

VA Horn, who cares if McCoy transfers? All I saw was a QB who has no business being on scholarship, anywhere. He does not have the physical talent. I am sure he has a great personality though. Ash will not learn anything on the bench. You do not learn to fish by reading a book.

If we better give 15 of our 25 scholarships to the line on both sides of the ball. We do not have shit on either side. I still feel good about the direction, but that correction on Saturday left me wondering how long it will really take.

In a way, this post offers a theology of football.

As a program, we need to rise from our seats at the back of the tent, step forward, put our paycheck in the plate and do some serious atoning.

The only question: is Mack our Billy Sunday or our Elmer Gantry?

“For those of you who want to put the majority of the blame on the offensive line: Ask yourselves one simple question, when the defense brings as many or more pass rushers than the protection and the offense runs a 3 step and the ball doesn’t get out, whose fault is that?”

It depends whether the QB’s three step drop actually buys him, say, a step and a half of separation from the OL that is getting pushed back into him. We went to lateral passing off of quick drops because there was nowhere for the QB to step forward on even 3-step drops. I still think the OL getting pushed back — usually with four rather than five rushing — made it impossible for the QBs to throw anywhere. Also, a 3-step drop, shrunk to a step and half, with every receiver being physically dominated at the line by a CB and no one getting into their routes? I still put most of it on the OL. That’s not excusing things like Ash’s Belton HS throw on the scramble right, however.

Scip, what does this game do for players looking at the rest of the season and into next? I know I’m really asking for a WAG as to what how you think these kids will respond, but I’d still like to hear your thoughts.

Also, assuming we now have the coaches in to properly develop and recruit, how many years until we get a solid O-line? Or really, given the underclassmen and incoming freshman, how does our line project for 2012?

We need to put every senior on the bench that isn’t named Acho or Randall. Or Tucker, I guess. The last two senior classes have been just abysmal.

Hey, we got any speed rushers on the roster anywhere that I’m missing? I remember some reports from the preseason that said Jeffcoat and Okafor may be the two best players on the team. lulz.

My analysis from my seat in section 18:

OU dominated the LOS on both sides of the ball, their WR’s run crisp routes, and Landry was kept clean and showed great accuracy to all fields. Texas’ D stiffened their backs in the red zone in the first half, but couldn’t hold up over the long haul. Miscommunication / bad assignments in the secondary cost at least 3 TD’s.

The multiple threat Texas O had OU playing base early, but since we couldnt block their front 4 we had no running lanes, and our toddler QB’s threw in to coverage all day. Slant routes were open several times, but negated by strip sack and two batted balls. We turned a lot of 2nd and 3’s into 3rd and 8’s.

We had some chances to keep it close early, but big play backfires killed us – was that a TE running that reverse with McCoy attempting a block??? I thought the schemes were designed to fit personnel?

Ash vs McCoy was a wash – but I’d give Ash the edge, at least his picks were thrown at a UT receiver. McCoy looked like he was serving volleyballs underhand to noone in particular.

Was that the Allstate mayhem guy refereeing the game?

No, the Allstate mayhem guy is the excellently dangerous Irish convict with the semi-retarded boxer brother from Oz. That ref was kind of a clown.

Did Trey Allen get hurt? If not, I’m curious if Hopkins is our new LT. He was playing there in the 4th, and possibly earlier. I just noticed it in the 4th. Paden Kelly was playing RT.

Perhaps our coaches came to the realization that they were playing Tray Allen at left tackle. I understand that our options there are somewhat limited, but shit.

good summary and analysis. been waiting for this and, hopefully, for some more people like scott to chime in. appreciate your observations.

i also liked your analogy. put things into perspective. i was very hopeful the odd-fit piece could fit together better than they did. my bad.

well, this just says we haven’t improved all that much and our sins of the past several years do go well beyond issues of scheme. we are still going in an excellent direction, but cautions of patience will find a readier recipient at my ears for a while.

let’s get what we can and build for the future.

Scip,

Any thoughts on Mack’s mental approach to this game? Seems to me he does something to remove any mental edge we have. OU shows up wanting to rip our heads off, we show up wanting to withstand their first punch.

We should have run the ball more in the first half. Our run blocking wasn’t that bad. Pass blocking was a completely different story. On the bright side if there is one, I see a little improvement since Searels has been here with it comes to our run blocking. A couple of trickeration plays in the first half stalled possessions namely the Shipley and O tackles for huge losses. These plays don’t fool good teams when you haven’t established anything. And if we don’t get monroe more touches I might throw my TV out the window. Jesus Christ.

Our D was atrocious in the first half. We played the run ok, but we got zero pressure on the QB even when we brought the house. An overrated Jones threw for 300 in the first half alone. I thought I was at the gravesite of Bull Reese……

Let’s just say the honeymoon is over. Our coordinators saw a real team and didn’t exactly impress. I’m willing to show patience, but this is unacceptable at Texas and I know we are paying for past sins. Sins where the head man makes 5 mil per year and has a losing record against his main rival.

Still going with the extra “e” in judgment, eh?

I am baffled at the people on here trying to put most of the blame on the offensive line. The offensive line received zero help from the quarterbacks. A huge part of the difference in perception between a subpar and great offensive line is the quarterback’s ability to adjust plays based on defensive formation. Neither UT QB did an ounce of that on Saturday. Off the top of my head I can remember at least 8 plays where I thought that an experienced QB would have checked out of that play based on the defensive alignment.

If a QB sees an overloaded front on the play side then it is on them to change the play.

The difference in this game was simply QB experience. Some of you really need to try some critical analysis of what you see on the field. If so, you would understand that this offensive line isn’t that much worse than the VY, Colt offensive lines. The difference is that both of those QBs could either diagnose/change the play or scramble out of trouble.

This game was lost because of the QB’s inability to audible out of bad plays or get the ball out quickly in obvious pressure situations. Against top tier defensive lines a QB has to have a 2-3 second clock in their head. Neither of the QB’s did that on Saturday.

Which QB you think should start should be solely based on your opinion of which QB will ultimately be the best at reading defenses and getting the team out of plays doomed pre snap.

Quoting DKR: Angry people win football games.

We have not looked angry as a team. Is it time, yet?

Tex Long, teams tend to take attitude and temperament of their head coach.

The gadgets won’t work when you can’t run up the middle, pressure deep to back the safeties off, and the defense is allowed to pressure the edges and collapse the pocket with impunity. Neither Harsin or Diaz had great days, but our problems are much more talent/ youth centric than schematic, and time and reps only addresses half of that equation.

We hit the iceberg of self satisfaction, and can either ride Titanic Cronyism to the bottom or hope our youth can ride out the cold in lifeboats until help arrives.

Tex Long, teams tend to take attitude and temperament of their head coach.

Absofuckinglootly. And…?

our problems are much more talent/ youth centric than schematic…

Attitude. Attitude. Attitude.

From my view, I agree with those that say reasons 1 through 5 the offense failed was the O-Line. 17 tackles for loss speaks for itself. The Harsin “gadget plays” aren’t going to work when 6 defenders are in the backfield. The O-Line still has to block and not expect the skill players to miracle a TD/1st Down just because it’s a “gadget” play. And I disagree with the chicken littles on Shaggy and elsewhere that Harsin abandoned the run game. Turnovers and tackles for loss gave us no shot to establish it consistently.

As for the QBs, McCoy’s duck to a wide open Mike Davis early (right after the M.O. 13 yard loss where he completely whiffed the block I think Ash makes) tells me everything I need to know. If he airs that out for about 40 yards, it’s a score, but he could barely get it 30. I am pretty sure that’s as far as he can throw it in a live pocket, and that won’t do.

I’m willing to take my lumps with Ash at this point and hope he starts getting better at making the correct checkdowns, reads, etc., which McCoy does seem to grasp better than Ash right now. But McCoy can’t be our every down QB. He just doesn’t have the skill set for big time college football. You can point to Kellen Moore all you want. Moore’s arm is 15-20 yards better than McCoy’s even if he is quarter midget.

On the bright side, the deep fried banana Moon Pie was delicious!

Scip, I hear what you are saying and agree generally.

However, something else escapes me. This is the 3rd time this has happened. OU has had teams that were young and decimated by injuries but they have never played as bad as Texas played on Saturday. Landry Jones played very well as a RS FR in 2009. OU had multiple OL injuries this year. A constant about OU is that they always come to play against Texas. Sometimes they lose but they are always competitive, 2005 not withstanding, but that was about Vince Young.

There is something in Mack or his program’s basic fabric that lends itself to this type of game. It doesn’t seem to be dependent on experience or talent or complacency unless we can say the staff was complacent in 2000 and 2003 also. 55-17 is a symptom of a much deeper source than just roster issues. Whatever it is, that is what I want discovered and expunged. It isn’t OL recruiting or QB experience at the very core. Those are secondary contributing factors in my mind. Didn’t we see the seeds of this in the 2nd half of Iowa St.? Sloppiness? Lack of effort? I don’t know but the team wasn’t working to get better to beat OU. I do know that.

I’m willing to take my lumps with Ash at this point

Doubt you’ll be getting many arguments about that.

I had hoped for better from the offense, though the difficulties at Iowa St were a clear warning.
Reality sucks, and the reality is that as a program we were in worse shape than we ever dreamed could happen.

Your addict analogy is a good one, Scipio. There is no short road back.

I trust Harsin and Diaz and the guys they have with them. Our O-line will improve, but it will take two years to field a good unit. This year we can only hope for better, not good. Running back is the only position where we are really good. TE must await recruiting. WRs have some potential, but haven’t realized it yet. QBs are in diapers still.

Recruiting will be a plus because we have so many areas where we can use help.

The only thing that can make this palatable is that it will end and in a good way. So I’m all for holding the addict’s head while he vomits in the toilet, wiping his ass for him when he soils himself, holding him tight while he shivers and sweats.
How can I not? He is MY addiction.
(What I would do for Texas football I would never do for a man/woman. He/she’s an addict? I’m outa here!)

Maybe it is complacency, but on this year’s staff. Just little but frequent pockets of complacency and a lack of attention to detail. I think that is more of an issue than experience or whatever else. We have all those problems too. But I don’t think the complacency problem has been totally eliminated because I still see it.

Couple of posts above mention David Snow’s failures, did he not replace Espinosa at center ? Espinosa had a terrible day also.

The answer is everything. Top to bottom. Dodds, HC, assistants, S&C, players, and recruiting.

ou ends up with players that are way down the leader board in the recruiting rags and end up with grown ass man type speed, size and strength.

scip, knowing what you know now about how OU dominated our OL line… what, if anything, would you have changed about our offensive scheme?

the play that keeps running in my mind was the first play in the ISU game where we faked a handoff to Monroe one way and then did a quick pitch to Malcolm the other way which lead to a nice 22 yd run. I think these plays were our best bet but i don’t remember ever even seeing this play run or something similar.

I remember reading the asset’s practice report last week and it was chalked full of predictions of harsin’s misdirection plays etc.. which would turn OU’s aggressive D against them. I don’t know happened and why didn’t we run more of these sorts of plays?

Was the Oline play THAT bad that Harsin couldn’t even call these sorts of things? I’m at a lost for words really.

I’m with jt. Where was the misdirection? Where was the wild cat? Where was the play action? No jet sweeps? I think we threw 1 screen? This didn’t look at all like the offense I saw the first 4 games of the season. When we finally started getting into the red zone, we ran a traditional offense, rather than the tried and true wildcat. I suppose our goal here was to try to grow in a game that had gotten out of hand…

OU tore us up in the flats and screen game the 2nd quarter. We were giving huge cushions and they made us pay for it. Would’ve been nice for Byndom to catch the ball that deflected straight to him…

Jackson Jeffcoat — more personal foul penalties than career sacks?

On the 1st pick of the game, did Jaxon trip over himself or did an OU player trip him? If he was tripped, why wasn’t that pass interference?

The officials at the Cotton Bowl seemed impacted by the pace of the OU offense… It felt like half the time, I had no idea why we were losing yards.

Did Stoops really leave 1st team defensive players in the entire game? I couldn’t believe he went for it on that 4th and 3 when he could have kicked a ~42 yard field goal. The score was like 48 to 10. Keep it classy, Bob.

Almost as embarrassing as the play on the field was half the fans leaving early, while (apparently) both teams’ starters were still on the field. Every bounce went our way against UCLA and ISU and we paid for that on Saturday.

At least the weather was good in Dallas.

All I want to hear from the fucking Big Cigar this week is that from the coaches down, this was a wakeup call and that no one thinks they’re shit don’t stink anymore.

" I couldn’t believe he went for it on that 4th and 3 when he could have kicked a ~42 yard field goal. The score was like 48 to 10. Keep it classy, Bob."

He did put the second string D in. That tells me he’s trying. Baby steps. Can’t run the douche canoe aground overnight.

HEY, I GOT IT. LET’S JUST LOWER OUR EXPECTATIONS FOR THE TEXAS LONGHORN FOOTBALL PROGRAM AND ACCEPT MEDIOCRE TYPE PLAY FROM OUR PLAYERS. LET MACK COACH ANOTHER 5, 10, 15 MORE YEARS, UNTIL HE IS READY TO RETIRE. LET US KEEP RECRUITING PLAYERS EARLY AND END UP WITH LESS TALENTED PLAYERS THAN SO MANY OTHER TEAMS. LET’S JUST LIVE IN THE GLORY YEARS OF THE PAST AND JUST SETTLED FOR A .600 TO .700 SEASON AS BEING GOOD ENOUGH. LETS MAKE SURE THOUGH THAT OUR COACHES ARE WELL PAID AND OUR PLAYERS HAVE THE BEST PRACTICE AND STADIUM FACILITIES FOR ADVERTISEMENT/COMMERCIAL PURPOSES. AND, NOW THAT WE ARE OBLIGATED TO ESPN’S LONGHORN NETWORK, WHAT ABOUT CHANGING OUR NAME TO THE ESPN LONGHORNS! HEY, WHAT ABOUT USING BRIBERY WITH OUR OPPONENTS AND PAY THEM TO NOT PLAY SO HARD AGAINST US. IS THIS WHAT WE HAVE COME TO?

DFWGW,

I agree that McCoy is not prepared to play big time D1 football, my only point being I would like to get back to redshirting QB’s to help there development, if he leaves C Brewer does not get to redshirt more than likely.

That was embarrasing and brutal. It is in the record books now. Loved Stoops going for it on 4th and 3, up 38 points. I just don’t know how Mack hasn’t developed a severe animus for Stoops. Hopefully our new coordinators will not stand for Mack’s penchant for gentlemanly victories going forward. Stoops is playing for conference championships, rankings and Heisman trophy’s. He isn’t interested in being a good guy. Who ends up being a better advocate for their players and program, him or Mack?

I suspect that this was our worst performance of the year. It is hard to win against a top flight opponent when you give up a defensive TD. We gave up 3, blowout. I think we’re missing the fact that the coaches were trying to win. You can gameplan to keep a game like this close and we didn’t, good or bad. Would it have been better to lose by 14, would that make everyone feel better? Losses like this tend to help Mack take off his rose colored glasses and make the tough decisions that he generally avoids.

I would expect a much improved performance this week. Ok State is very good and they certainly owe us one. Regardless, we’ve got a top 10 program at our place this week. This is an exciting opportunity, and could be the turning point for this staff.

Our best teams have been better than OU’s best teams, our worse teams have been far worse. Stoops develops his coaches and maintains pretty consistent schemes and systems. The addition of the no-huddle pace was the major development in their system in the last 5 years.

My point? They are far more stable than we are because they have the same coaches, philosophy, and system every year. If they try and install a triple-option offense in the future after a few years of poor recruiting while simultaneously converting to a 2-gap 3-4 defense maybe we’ll see more of a down year where they get pummeled.

Also, the nature of their defensive scheme and philosophy is to encourage aggressive and fast play. If you don’t slow down their reads that’s what happens. When they play someone that can handle that level of aggression they’ll look human again, this happens every other year.

“I suspect that this was our worst performance of the year.”

Good fucking christ I would hope so.

Hopefully we grab another QB along with Brewer of some quality (we have to) in 2012 — perhaps a late bloomer, starting as a senior for the first time or something — and cast a wide net beyond Texas in 2013.

If going into this season with 4 QBs and coming out with 2 tells you anything, it’s that you absolutely have to try to have 3 ready to go and one redshirting at all times. Unfortunately, the primadonna nature of the position doesn’t always allow for that — see every non-starting QB besides Sherrod Harris transferring since Matt “Clipper Cooper” Nordgren.

I agree with the consensus that Ash is the better QB prospect. I’m not so sure about those saying Case should be benched and Ash given the reins. We saw what can happen to a freshman QB in the OU game, I think playing Ash for a series or two and then coaching him for a series if things aren’t going well is likely the best way to develop him.

Someone said that you “don’t learn anything on the bench.” Really? Isn’t the sideline where coaches talk to their units about performance and adjustment? If Ash isn’t moving the team, coach him during the game and give Case a shot. The same process is likely helping Case come along as well.

Ash’s apparent superiority is not so clear that, at this moment, we lose much replacing him with McCoy from time to time.

Oh, in answer to Longhorn Scott’s question, some of the blame for a failed 3-step drop quick pass could also fall on receivers for not getting clear to make a catch.

I unhappily await our next dose of medicine Saturday, but expect it to go down a little better. Then we get into the weekly dogfight part of our schedule which will be more like a rollercoaster and less like being run over by a train.

Anyone who solely blames QB play doesn’t understand the game of football at all.

We essentially have a redshirt freshman and true freshman with 3-5 months experience in this offense, did you expect f**king Peyton Manning behind center? We needed a solid running game to protect them and our defensive secondary and abandoned it too quickly.

Put that on Harsin, but if you take any real disturbing thing from this game if you understand the game of football and today’s CFB landscape and it was the play of our Offensive line. They got blown back and WHIFFED and ARE NOT ALL YOUNG.

Yes they are in a new offense scheme and in a challenging environment, but when the SAME UPPERCLASSMEN are getting physically and mentally dominated to the point of defenders almost being able to take the snap in the shotgun or pistol there is something drastically wrong…..I don’t care if they are playing out of position or not.

That OU Defense gave up 532 yards and 28 points AT HOME to a Missouri team that barely put up over 300 yards of total offense on KState on Saturday averaging 3.6 yards per carry.

Think about that.

Y2K going to get a look at QB?

As I ask clients when advising big changes: it’s already broken, how much worse do you think it can get? How much worse does it have to get before you’re ready to change?

Dammit, I wanted to see the ’Kat with Ash at “QB” and Foz, Brown, DJ, Shipley rotating through.

“was that a TE running that reverse with McCoy attempting a block??? I thought the schemes were designed to fit personnel?”

This, McCoy throwing a short punt up when we had someone open downfield (I marked that play as the end of the Case McCoy Era), and Mike Davis handing the ball to the OU DB (at which point I headed for the Tower Building – makes me a bad fan) are the three things I will remember from this year’s annual beer-addled trip to the State Fair of Texas.

Some of you have evidently never seen a college football game before, it is normal (and considered more sporting) to go for it on fourth down rather than kick a meaningless field goal.

The same things could be said in 2000 and 2003. Those teams came back just fine. This team will lose a couple more games but will improve a lot from here on out and win 9 games…maybe 10. We knew we were a year away and 3 D Tds kept it from being respectable. The future is very bright..have to live with some growing pains.

“The only thing that can make this palatable is that it will end and in a good way. So I’m all for holding the addict’s head while he vomits in the toilet, wiping his ass for him when he soils himself, holding him tight while he shivers and sweats.
How can I not? He is MY addiction.”

Nice.

One player could have made a difference in this game, a 5* high school player named Garret Gilbert that developed into a serviceable college QB.

His story may have been different with a staff that gave a damn. I think with a hungry and talented coaching staff (over the last 5 years) we have a decent QB named Gilbert.

Even with our OL problems, we might have had a barker’s chance in Hell to beat OU with an experienced QB that can audible and deliver quick slants, etc.

This is not to blame him, but as Scipio has pointed out it’s a condemnation of the horrible coaching & development that’s been going on over the last few years.

I rarely choose to miss watching the Horns, even when my kids have their sporting events. This Saturday my daughter has a soccer game right smack in the middle of the UT/OSU game. Normally, I’d give her a kiss, wish her good luck, and send her off with my wife. This time though, I think I’ll set the DVR and enjoy a sunny afternoon watching my daughter play soccer. (I will of course bring my pocket radio & ear plugs.)

The worst thing we can do right now is panic. Or maybe I’m wrong. Maybe the worst thing we can do right now is to stay calm and think everything’s okay. That would only indulge our culture of complacency. Maybe the best option is to panic afterall. Yes. That’s it. We need to panic, people!

We need to panic RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!!

Fire the coaches! Bench the quarterback! Liquidate your investments! Stockpile canned goods and ammunition! Adorn your shoulder pads and helmets with spikes and shit, and start converting your dune buggie into a post-apocalptic war machine! BUY GOLD, FOR CHRIST’S SAKE!!!!

Mack always wins the game after an OU loss, right? It’s in the bag this weekend

The University of Texas Longhorns have a decent football team – they are getting indecent play from the QB position.

It ain’t real complicated.

As a fan, I let 4-0 go to my head. Sitting in the Cotton Bowl until time expired reminded me why I considered an 8-4 season in 2011 to be a good thing. Okie State kickoff is at 2:30 and the Longhorn faithful better show up with me at DKR. This is far from over. The road to recovery is riddled with nightmares from the past.

Scip-

From what I’ve read here at the mothership is that we have a delicate situation with Case. His family feels he should be the starter. If our future is brightest with Ash, how do the coaches handle splitting practice time with McCoy being a flight risk. One serviceable scholarship QB is not place for a major football program. Once the other hand, when and where do the coaches play the commitment card with Case. He looks like a pretty big jerk if he’s like, “Hey, if you’re not going to start me, I’m going to transfer.” Are you serious? Are the coaches walking on eggshell with respect to Case?

Projected score: Texas 24 O-State 48

I’m done, getting off the bandwagon. Can’t bare to watch the rest of the season. We should beat Kansas; but, besides them, anything could happen. See ya next year. Oh yeah and Hook’em, well scratch that, how about do your best Horns.

No surprises. The results were on the bad end of the known possible. I spent the first half of the game not throwing things, nor uttering a single imprecation, because I knew I was going to spend the second half driving to BFE for a (non-football fan’s) wedding, listening to the game on the radio. I wasn’t happy, but I was prepared.

The nice thing about blogs like this is that, by the time you’re done consuming the content, you’re smarter than when you started, something that cannot be said for commercial media.

And that’s pretty much the highest compliment I know how to pay, Scip. You are not a waste of bandwidth.

I’m going to ask a few questions that I honestly don’t know if anyone here knows, but I sure would appreciate an answer to:

1. Does Mack have any fucking idea how pissed off people are about not only losing to OU consistently, but losing in this manner three times now? Honestly, does he have any idea?

2. Does Mack recognize that our current situation is a direct reflection his total failure over the last three years in terms of recruiting and talent development?

You can call me a bitch if you want, but I want to hear an apology come out of his mouth at the press conference accepting the blame and shouldering the responsibility for an absolute embarrassment. It won’t happen, but I want it to happen.

And I don’t want to hear any more of this “We just have to go back and work to get better” bullshit. Fuck that.

“Can’t bare to watch the rest of the season… anything could happen.”

I know you’re a clown, but isn’t the above exactly why people watch college football?

The question is rhetorical.

“Nicer Longhorn Fanatico said: October 10th, 2011 at 8:15 am

Projected score: Texas 24 O-State 48

I’m done, getting off the bandwagon. Can’t bare to watch the rest of the season. We should beat Kansas; but, besides them, anything could happen. See ya next year. Oh yeah and Hook’em, well scratch that, how about do your best Horns."

You are what is called “A fair weather fan”. It is best that you DO get off the band wagon. Please don’t come back.

Godzilla…

In my opinion, starting Case is basically dangling a carrot in front of his face so that he’ll continue forward. If and when we pull that carrot, shit gets real.

What a cluster the quarterback managemement has been with this team. From four to two in a matter of months, and handcuffed with the two we have.

That’s what happens when you put all your eggs in Gilbert’s basket.

OB79: You bet on the game?

1). Of course he does, you twit. What difference does it make anyways? He’s either doing a good enough job or he’s not. How angry entitled, drunken frat boys get is of no consequence.

2). Didn’t he just overhaul his staff? What actions do think are inconsistent with a realization that the program slipped in direction over the last few years?

Doesn’t he usually accept responsibility for losses? As for “we need to get better”, what else is he supposed to say? Blame specific teenagers who are doing their best? What do you think he needs to say at a press conference that would help the situation?

Nickle Rover,

So “recruit good kids from good families” isn’t a consistent strategy to build upon?

I agree with what you said about Stoopes and the OU program. You know what they are going to do and how they are going to do it. They recruit kids that they will believe their system, push the hell out of them, won multiple Big XII titles, played in multiple BCS bowls, and seem to have their meltdowns in January instead of October.

Alexander had at least 2 free runs(while i was still paying close attention) at the QB when Allen simply let him go, untouched. He is just not vey smart on the football field.

In hindsight the offense should have given OU more misdirection looks or faked misdirection to the outside and attacked the middle of OU’s defense. OU blitzed off the corners so often it was comical. A lot of our offense was just too slow developing. They had defenders standing in our back field waiting for the reverses, sweeps. etc… On passing downs that blitzed caused mass confusion for the OL, which was having trouble blocking OU’s front four.

Hopefully Harsin has some better ideas for Ok St., because we are going to get blitzed to death, especially off the edges.

We didn’t tackle. It’s plain and simple (much like tackling). The Offense was beat by undersized and angry DTs and LBs. We should have been able to mitigate that trouble, but we didn’t. Despite our offensive woes, the biggest harbinger of deeper seeded troubles was our complete inability to tackle on defense. A team strength in which we progressed thru 4 games just took five steps backwards. For all of you “the sky is fallin” types… that’s your real ammo. Offensive woes were a product od immaturity and stupidity.

Nickel,

I understand and can accept the fact that I am still as pissed off as I can possibly be at the program, lending itself to overly emotional and irrational thinking.

But from what I see of Mack, he just doesn’t seem to get it. Maybe it’s the stories like his wishing Travis Lewis well, or watching Byndom offer Stills a hand, but Mack just doesn’t seem to get it. I don’t know how to explain it. That’s why I asked. I will accept your calling me a twit because I currently have the mentality of a twit. No offense taken, even if you meant it.

You ask what actions are inconsistent with a realization that the program slipped in direction over the last few years….HOW ABOUT RECRUITING NO TIGHT ENDS, CONTINUING TO CODDLE THE SENIOR OFFENSIVE LINEMEN WHO SUCK MY ASS, AND GETTING BLOWN THE FUCK OUT BY OKLAHOMA AGAIN. Ok, I will try to be less of a twit now.

Sorry, I’m just sick of losing to Oklahoma like this. And I’m sick of our guys looking like the JV squad.

To be honest, I’m just sick of Mack.

Does anyone here remember Macwhorter’s pedigree? Meaning where he coached before Texas and what his qualifications were. Had he been at Texas since Mack started? Just wondering if he actually developed Sendlein, Scott, or Blalock. Also, someone correct me…..have we only sent 4 O linemen to the NFL since Mack started?

What I meant RomaVicta, was that a few weeks ago I thought the Longhorns had a real, solid chance at an 8-4 or maybe a 9-3 season, with a decent bowl game. Now, those expectations are no longer there for me, hence-“anything could happen” phrase. With Kansas being the only “for sure” victory, they could possibly lose another 4, 5, 6 more games, meaning they could end up 7-5, 6-6, or God forbid 5-7 AGAIN! That’s what this “clown” meant. Now, if that is rhetorical, so be it, I prefer “depressing”.

Mack should not get a pass for the abortion that has been festering in our program and will now apparently take another year or two to painfully remove. We as Texas fans deserve better. Plus Mack looks like absolutle shit. He is nearly obess and has aged 10 years in two. He is not long for this program and its mutual. Get Urban in here to kick some ass and take names, I’ve had all the coddeling I can stand as well as prison rapings. Unexaceptle!

One flag, I’m going to re-watch the OU game and write about how they use Stills and Broyles to stress pass defenses and how we dealt with it.

If you think of it like 2008 Texas when teams had to try and cover Shipley and Cosby and then look at the numbers allowed by our green secondary it’s not as bad. We needed to do a better job of tackling Broyles but we didn’t do a terrible job. I don’t think we took any steps backwards we just haven’t had to try and deal with someone like him in our previous 4 games. That was the big difference in our first 4 games and this one, opposing skill talent.

I think Macwhorter’s first coaching stint was during the Civil War. If my memory serves me right, he coached the Confederate team and we know how that ended. Even then the front line couldn’t hold the oncoming attack.

I can’t rigorously define “unexaceptle,” but, believe me, I know it when I see it. And I saw it on Saturday. For three hours I stood in the Cotton Bowl, staring the epitome of unexaceptle right in its ugly face. And it was everything you’d ever imagined it was.

OU always seems tougher than every UT team; whether UT wins or loses. How come Stoops can instill this kind of toughness and Texas always seems like a finesse team? This bugs me to no end. OU takes Texas players and makes them tough, what is UT doing?

The O line sucked. I only hope that in 2 years when all these freshman are juniors they put a real ass-whipping on OU—that thought sustains me.

We’ve got people talking about giving up on this team after 1 loss and I’m taking flack for thinking Stoops should’ve sent the kicking team out? There’s nothing “sporting” about Landry Jones attempting to pass to Broyles for a 1st down on 4th and 2 @ the 26 yard line, up 38 points in the 4th quarter. You can admire Stoops for having his guys prepared to win, but don’t admire him for trying to run up the score on amateur athletes.

Heads up everyone, CEO Mack Brown is getting ready to speak in a few minutes. Check out how he plays it out. The guy is a media mastermind. Will probably give us some humility and concession talk, then sprinkle some “we have to evaluate and fix things” and then will say we have to learn from this adversity and move on because we have another great team coming up. Check it out…

Sorry but I’m still pissed as hell. Yes we’re paying for the sins of yesterday, but there still should be consequences for something like this happening.

It’s like in National Treasure when he’s talking with the FBI guy about what’s going to happen to everyone and saying he doesn’t want to go to prison. The FBI guy reminds him that the Declaration of Independence was stolen, so someone has to go to prison.

We can’t undo the putrid job of the previous coaching staff, but someone should have consequences. In particular the person who is the common thread in the three worst losses, by 35+ points, and giving up 55+ points to OU. Mack Brown should have resigned last year and I was disappointed he didn’t. I liked his hires, but I felt like he had no business still being in charge after letting things go so thoroughly to hell in a handbasket over such a long time.

Of course he didn’t resign and there’s nothing to be done about that now. However, if he was any kind of real leader he’d take responsibility not only in words but in deeds and give back his salary for this year and work the remainder of it for free. The fact is this man stole the University’s money for the last several years allowing the worthless crap on his staff to continue earning their checks.

At the very least Mack should take a $1 million dollar cut from his obscene salary as a demonstration that he understands he’s been clearly overpaid for what he allowed to go on. He doesn’t get that million back until he we’re truly back to national championship contender level and can beat OU. Until then he doesn’t deserve to be in that class of pay scale.

Of course I know this won’t happen. Not just because he’s unwilling to take that kind of responsibility, but just as much because he really doesn’t understand how unforgivable it is to not only have this happen against OU once (or against anyone for that matter with a program like ours) but to allow it to happen three times. He clearly demonstrated this when he’s thinking about how he wants to pat OU players on the back, tell them how good they are, and that he hopes they win it all instead of being so pissed he wants to kick someone’s butt.

I guaran-damn-tee you Stoops wouldn’t be looking for Texas players to pat on the back if it were the other way around. “But Stoops is an asshole” you say. Yup, and he wins. I’ll take an asshole that wins anytime.

Nickel Rover: I’ve skipping your post with regularity because anything you write is just incorrect or has an agenda copy and pasted to it. If I can see through the BS 99% of this board can. OB79 is spot on in his assesment I want a fucking apology from Mack as well. Does he have no self respect?

Nicer Longhorn Fanatico:
“Projected score: Texas 24 O-State 48

I’m done, getting off the bandwagon. Can’t bare to watch the rest of the season. We should beat Kansas; but, besides them, anything could happen. See ya next year. Oh yeah and Hook’em, well scratch that, how about do your best Horns."

i hope thats just frustration talking and you will watch our team no matter what. if not then we dont want bandwagon fans anyway fuck face.

i cant wait til the day we start taking chances on “troubled” or “questionable” character kids again. we need some nasties on D and we need a big time WR. I hope that we didnt lose out on the DBG sweepstakes with that showing. Im tired of seeing our good not great athletes against kids who want to bring pain. i wish we had 11 vaccaro’s on our team sprinkled with some k. studdard linemen who want to run it down people’s throats. i hate this feeling of having to put the pieces back together after a blowout lose to OU(fucking sucks), but shit i love being a Longhorn fan and i wouldnt have it any other way.

I’m looking into water purification tablets, and putting everything into weapons and food.

OU dared us to sustain drives with our running game and we couldn’t do it. They were able to hit some TFL on called runs, but when we attempted to pass it was a chinese fire drill in our backfield enough of the time. Manny Diaz probably smiled when he saw how OU’s D went to work.

OB, I understand the frustration. I was at the state fair surrounded by packs of extremely obnoxious Sooner fans.
As far as TE and OL, they have to be developed to compete at this level. We didn’t do that in the past, we’re trying to fix it but the fix won’t be instantaneous. We’re all basically getting angry at the same things that were a problem last year. I don’t know what our coaches could be doing better. The sooner DL is better than I anticipated and you can’t throw young quarterbacks at Venables/Stoops unit like that without heavy, heavy support from experienced OL, RB, TE, and WR without seeing them get rattled by their pressure packages and ball-hawking back 7.

The anger at things like wishing Lewis well, helping Stills up, that’s sportsmanship. Bad sportsmanship doesn’t make for better football teams, or at least not ones that I’ll be excited about rooting for.

I was taunted leaving the fair by some sooner fans thrilled to see the exasperation and frustration on our faces, so I went up to the lead taunter, shook his hand and congratulated them on the win. That was the end of our interaction.

 I recommend a similar strategy for everyone’s mental approach. We were beat by a team with comparable talent and 2 or 3 times as much experience. Longing for revenge meted out vicariously through our team or passive agressively by our coaches in front of the press will be no more satisfying than another garbage time touchdown on prevent defense.

Nicer Longhorn Fanatico is a douche-bag. That is all

Maybe I’m not in the minority after all.

Some of you guys need to chill. We don’t magically turn from a 5-7 team to beating #1/3 ranked OU in 6 months time. It’s a process that is going to take time – it’s not going to happen overnight. The lack of mental toughness, recruiting and developing is going to be present in our program until we can get fresh players into our system and develop them with our new coaching staff and get the older ones out.

It’s obvious the younger kids on our roster are more talented than the older ones, but they’re still young. They were playing high school football 6-12 months ago for God’s sake. They need time to grow and understand the college game. All of this playing time they’re receiving now when they’re young is going to pay off in a year or two. At least Mack has given his assistants more power to play the younger kids instead of them sitting on the bench and having meaningless seniors get their asses kicked.

Again, 7-5, 8-4 or 9-3 was the real expectation for this year. Not 10+ wins. Drill that into your head for this year, please.

Mysterious package: Will it make you feel better if Mack apologizes for losing so badly? How about if he comes to your house tonight, tucks you into bed and reads you a bedtime story of how we beat the sooners by 30 points until the day you die?

I’m a fan like the rest of you and I overestimated how well we would play. Scipio’s football knowledge helps him to see the errors on our team, I use mine to find any and every flaw in our opponents. Like Mack, I need to improve my self-scouting. But I’m not crying about the loss or demanding that bellmont tell me that everything will be okay again either.

“I was taunted leaving the fair by some sooner fans thrilled to see the exasperation and frustration on our faces, so I went up to the lead taunter, shook his hand and congratulated them on the win. That was the end of our interaction.”

Nickel Rover, I had a similar experience after the game, with one minor difference. Instead of shaking his hand and congratulating him, I invited him to have sex with himself. The end result was the same, though.

Nickel,

You went up and shook his hand.

I get it now. You’re Mack. “I don’t know what our coaches could do better.” “OL and TE have to be developed to compete at this level.”

Nickel—we haven’t had offensive linemen or tight ends who could compete at this level in six years. SIX YEARS. I’m not laying this at the feet of Harsin and Diaz. I’m laying it at the feet of Mack Fucking Brown.

He gets patted on the back for hiring new coordinators. He gets patted on the back for being a nice guy. He gets patted on the back for running the program like a family.

And then he gets kicked in the ass because he does all those things better than he coaches a football team.

I’m ready for a real coach. I didn’t say CEO. I didn’t say a father. I said a coach.

It’s telling that the coaches think Ash is just sllightly better than McCoy. I hope the staff is going to bring in 4 qb’s in next year’s class. We clearly need to start over

Ahhh, you know you fellas like me, come on admit it. I know the name calling is in jest.

BTJ,

Currently in the NFL you will find Blaylock playing in Atl., Sendlein in Az., Hills in Denver, Scott in Pitts., Hix is on IR at N.E., and Studdard is on IR in Houston.

Since Mack Brown has come to Austin he has had 4 of his offensive linemen get drafted that I can recall. They are Hills, Blaylock, Studdard, and Scott. Anyone notice anything significant about the time they played and say the success of the program?

I am not a numbers guy like Huck, but I am pretty sure 4 players drafted from an area that comprises just under 25% of your starters over 13+ years isn’t great. As a point of reference OU has had 8 drafted during that time and TCU has had 6 offensive linemen drafted.

As to McWhorter, he came from G-Tech I believe and don’t know much about his track record, but I always felt that the offensive line was an area that reflects the ability to develop talent by your entire program more than any other area. Akina gets props all the time for his putting kids into the NFL, but physically how much work was needed to be done with guys like Mi.Griffin, AJ, Ross, and a few of the others. I know there is more than that, but he isn’t exactly working with a basket of sow’s ears either.

Texas has suffered from I believe poor evaluation in this area, poor technique, poor strength training, and it showed up last Saturday.

Brickhorn-“unacexaptle” was the whole enchilada. From OU barking at our players before kickoff to Mack telling OU players he wants them over for cookies afterwards and everthing in between as well as how sick I got after fried biscutts and gravy/oreos/snkickers/funnel cake it was a poor showing for my vital organs. This was due to the fact that even though I was on row 5 and refused to go back in after half time our players and coaches dont give a shit why should I. Mack has enabled it to get this bad and gets no free pass. He should have to give back a portion of his salary at the very least. Mack just doesnt have a clue and neither does a quarter of our fanbase. I guess they are used to getting skull fucked and just accept it. We

“The anger at things like wishing Lewis well, helping Stills up, that’s sportsmanship. Bad sportsmanship doesn’t make for better football teams, or at least not ones that I’ll be excited about rooting for.

I was taunted leaving the fair by some sooner fans thrilled to see the exasperation and frustration on our faces, so I went up to the lead taunter, shook his hand and congratulated them on the win. That was the end of our interaction.

I recommend a similar strategy for everyone’s mental approach. We were beat by a team with comparable talent and 2 or 3 times as much experience. Longing for revenge meted out vicariously through our team or passive agressively by our coaches in front of the press will be no more satisfying than another garbage time touchdown on prevent defense."

Thank you. The few Sooners I interacted with after the game were great sports, wished us well, and I was respectful in return. I will root for OU to win the MNC. It’s a football game that none of us expected to win. Things didn’t go our way early, we put a little more on our QB’s in the 2nd quarter than we wanted to and things got out of hand. I’m disappointed, but I’m not mad. This wasn’t nearly as painful for me as, say, K-State 2007. I have faith that we will continue to improve and make a run in 2012 or 2013.

Depth chart for OSU is up. At first glance the only change I see is Howell running ahead of Dorsey. Everything else looks the same.

If by, “you’re mack” you mean, “you conduct yourself like an adult” than I’ll take it.

Who’s fault is it that our OL and TE are undeveloped? Mack, of course. What else could he have done to fix it though besides the staff changes? Invented a time machine? You wanted him to recruit more tight ends when we already had 30 on scholarship?

We just have to bite the bullet and grow through this. Our fanbase is as deluded as the people trying to fix our economy. There is no magic fix, consequences are real and they don’t just go away.

I’m not freaking out here, just an observation: Does anyone else get the sort of feeling that a lot of our players have the attitude (in regard to playing football for the University of Texas) that….“Oh, sweet…..I get to play football for UT and go to school”……instead of “holy shit, I get to play football for the UT and get my shot at the NFL. Unbelievable, this is an f’ing dream come true – no way I’m gonna mess this up.”

What I’m speaking of is the mindset of a lot of the kids from good families…..meaning kids who probably haven’t experienced much, if any hardship and aren’t quite sure what it really takes to succeed here. Maybe they think they are putting in 100% but in actuality……its probably more like 80% compared to that player on that team over there. I’m not saying these kids have had everything handed to them…..but the exact path was maybe clearly laid out for them and all they have to do is continue…….continue studying, training, etc., without significant bumps in the road to test their fire and commitment to being the best they can be – regardless of the situation. Maybe it emanates down from the coach, but there has never seemed to be much fire there – kids that know this is their shot, instead of “ah, the whole NFL thing didn’t work out so I’ll finish my degree and get a job through one of my father’s contacts or contacts I’ve made through playing football, no biggie.” The exceptions are people like VY who’s hunger was contagious.

I’m talking about seeing what these kids are made of. Kids from good families don’t often give you problems and I think most genuinely want to succeed, I’m just not sure they know how when quite possibly their own head coach doesn’t know. Kids who have been more challenged growing up and want to make it big to take care of their family are probably more accustomed to looking out for themselves and figuring out what they need to do to make a situation better – and consequently know no one else is going to do it for them. I’m not saying in the slightest abandon the recruiting tendencies we’ve had over the years – just maybe open your eyes to the hungry kids out there who don’t have a 3.75 gpa from two parent households in Pearland. I like how Mack is going national in recruiting now – its been a long time coming.

Just thinking out loud here.

I’ll be anxious to see what Bennie and Stacy can do with these kids after 2-3 years. I have felt for a long time that we are quite often the smaller team…..look at everyone else’s linebackers, Oline, receivers…you name it. Outside of people like Fozzy and maybe Orakpo, I’ve never got the feeling almost any of our players are “jacked”. I think the linebackers are the biggest example of this. Maybe its just the type of players we recruit….instead of some 6’ brickhouse, I don’t know.

I know we’re going to have to do some heavy drinking this season to get through it, but we’ll survive, and come out a better team for it. My liver hates the Horns, but luckily, those are easier to come by than a new heart.

Yes, Nickel. Consequences are real. For everyone but Mack Brown.

Mack Brown’s consequences for being lazy are tougher press conferences, a “soft” label, and millions of dollars a year.

Mack could have “fixed it” when it became a problem instead of “fixing it” years later. He was so oblivious that he couldn’t see the decay in the program until his run All-American quarterbacks left campus.

Hey nickel did you invite the lead taunter to tuck you in at night and have some milk and cookies warmed by Salley for a midnight snack? Maybe watch some Maclome in the Middle? I bet you turned your shirt inside out after too much mustard and ketchup pulled out of your fanny pack. Some OU fan mentioned he was surprised we were sill Texas fans after the game. Instead of shacking his hand I told him to shove it up where only his little boyfiend could find it and that if the game had been reversed he would be back in his trailor having cirlce jerk next to the propane tank and back up generator. I then wished him luck with a degree from a third tier academic insitution.

NR,

I can’t speak for everyone, but the base concern to me is that the core problem is not the staff, but Mack and he can’t or won’t truly make the changes needed to be made.

Old enough and scarred enough from business to have been through some corporate changes where we changed logos, titles, middle management, etc………only to keep doing business the same way we did before.

This is what is most troubling to me about the program. Mack talks about good kids, good families etc……but is anyone really ready to throw stones at the OU program when Texas has had it share of issues off the field? It all just seems more emphasis is spent on the image of the program than results.

Mysterious,

From OU barking at our players before kickoff to Mack telling OU players he wants them over for cookies afterwards and everthing in between as well as how sick I got after fried biscutts and gravy/oreos/snkickers/funnel cake it was a poor showing for my vital organs.

My digestive tract also fell victim to the onslaught of State Fair cuisine. I woke up at 2:30 AM thinking I was about to die. The rest of the night was a triumph of the will, as I managed against all odds to keep the greasy carnival fare from escaping my body from whence it entered.

Not sure exactly what did it, as the possible culprits are too numerous and each one too likely a suspect to exclude from consideration, but it was some combination of corny dog, sausage-on-a-stick, spicy french fries, fried moon pie, several Shiner Bocks, a couple of Power Ades, fried shrimp, fried chicken strips, and the 1/2 tsp of water I drank that day.

Nickel, I respect your opinion. They are usually based in reality and facts. I haven’t had a chance to look at the YAC totals for 2008 UT and 2010 OU, but you’re usually right, and I’m bett’n they’re comparable. My opinion stems from what I saw watching the game. I found countless times in which either a LD or DB tried tackling the WR/RB/TE up high…. Or I found multiple instances where the Texas defender would lead with this shoulder and not wrap their arms around the Sooner offensive player. It was maddening to see our players making the same mistakes and using poor technique to wrap up the tackle. I thought, surely Diaz or Akina will say something and the guys will make corrections, but it seems they never did. Also, did you notice Gideon on the sideline yelling at Akina. I wondered what that was about. Was Gideon angry about a how coach was having them line up, or an assigment?

That’s what I thought Davey…….If I was a top rated Oline prospect, why the hell would I want to go to UT, except for the women?

I don’t want to judge without the numbers, but 4 guys in 13 years doesn’t seem like a lot.

There is one constant with the 3 blow out loses. The problems start at the top.

Good job package, you’re a big man now. You can handle things that way if you want and call it manliness, but I’m not the one who is throwing a hissy fit on the internet about the events of an athletic competition between students.

OB79, he had to fire a staff that he loved and felt comfortable with, but you’re right the consequences haven’t been too serious for Mack yet. But with the rise of the Longhorn network and the attempt to build the Texas brand at this time, the boosters and Admin won’t put up with a fall from excellence for long I suspect. There’s too much money at stake.

That is….numbers of oline players drafted over the last 10 years or so from teams like LSU, FL, USC, ohio state….etc.

Brick- I think we experienced the maximum amount a body can handle when it comes to the random assortment of delicate fried foods. Its prob the equivalent of eating McDonalds daily for a week. We wont know the true consequences of bodily harm unitl the next doctor visit.

Who’s fault is it that our OL and TE are undeveloped? Mack, of course. What else could he have done to fix it though besides the staff changes? Invented a time machine? You wanted him to recruit more tight ends when we already had 30 on scholarship?

We just have to bite the bullet and grow through this. Our fanbase is as deluded as the people trying to fix our economy. There is no magic fix, consequences are real and they don’t just go away.

You’re right we can’t undo the past or make it go away. But there can still be consequences and if Mack were half the coach he’s paid to be he’d make clear that what happened (FOR THE 3RD F***ING TIME) under his leadership was unacceptable and that there should be consequences for him, by taking at least a $1 million dollary pay cut until we can beat OU and be a national championship contender again.

One flag, thanks I appreciate the compliment. I didn’t notice about Gideon, I’ll definitely look for that on replay. I know that he blew an assignment and let Stills in to the end zone because he was preoccupied with helping on Broyles (Landry’s eyes were on stills though).

Our DB’s have been criticized for tackling high for years, including the 2005 bunch. In fact, some analysts said that was going to bite us in the ass against USC. I guess it did on some of our attempted tackles on White and then on some others it did not. Akina clearly teaches it though and I think it’s a part of instilling a physical mindset in them and being an aggressive unit.

Plus, if you dive at the legs or feet and miss, it’s all over. If you get a hold of the shirt even if you can’t drag them down you can slow them down and buy time for someone else to come and knock them down or strip the ball.

As far as the plays where we led with our shoulders…less exciting. Too focused on sending a message and matching the Sooner physicality rather than making them earn their yards. But, maybe if they connected on a few of those Mysterious Package would sleep better at night.

It is disconcerting that despite the new staff, the team still has no fight in them. Cue the Belichik quote, I know, but 18-23 year olds need to play with more swagger than grown men with families who make six or seven figures per game. My kingdom for one, just one, pancake block. And, what happened to Mike Davis’ grit? Turning into a real rabbit killer, like Kirkendoll.

Really looking forward to the review of the defense. I hope it points out that Gilbert is not the only 5* NFL-legacy bust in the program. Also, would anyone be interested in my new coffee-table book, “Bit On The Pump: The Life and Times of Blake Gideon”?

Nunna: that will look good when we want to get our next head coach. Don’t have a rebuilding year where you lose big or we cut your paycheck and make you earn it back. Urban Meyer will see that and yell, “sign me up!”.

I didn’t notice about Gideon, I’ll definitely look for that on replay.

Good God, how f****ing sick are you? You’re going to watch that abomination of a game AGAIN?

Couple of things:
On a 3-step drop you don’t need room to step into a throw, you just need windows and a target. I’ll get into it on replay but we had some issues in synching our timing and routes with the drops and protection. Needs to get fixed. Bottom line is that the biggest set back we faced with the failed GG development was the quick game. It’s very difficult to put in the snaps necessary to develop the quick game and the running game in a single offseason. Most teams that focus on quick game only install one or two running concepts. We (rightly, imo) focused on developing our running game complexity. We are pieces right now offensively and OU found a hole and we couldn’t execute a response. I think we would have stuck with the running game more but we had some big mental lapses that put us in huge off-schedule downs. The tight ends/h-backs would get the lowest score on my score card for their failure in the run game. We saw pretty clearly that we had some vulnerability last week to off tackle aggressiveness in the ISU game. I don’t think we responded to that sufficiently in the gameplan this week and that’s on Harsin. We need to develop some audibles and checks to account for that our we will face the same problems a few more times this season even if the defenses aren’t as fast as OUs.

As an aside, I think a lot of you are misinterpreting the Byndom/Stills interaction. Byndom was standing over him in “in your face, MFer” fashion and extended the hand but there was nothing friendly about it. That was basically saying, “I’m not taunting, I’m trying to help up.” Rewatch it on replay, those two were definitely going at it early on.

Nunna: that will look good when we want to get our next head coach. Don’t have a rebuilding year where you lose big or we cut your paycheck and make you earn it back. Urban Meyer will see that and yell, "sign me up!".

That’s the point. Texas shouldn’t have to cut his pay. He should understand the gravity of this and demand his own salary be cut. If Texas refuses because of how it looks Mack should then say fine, I’ll donate the entire $1 million dollars to the University scholarship fund.

Nickel- That confrontation didnt even register until I read about how your bigger man approach to that bully who was taunting you at the fair. Really just wanted to relate to your story. Maybe next time we could play bad cop good cop and really get’em.

“As far as the plays where we led with our shoulders…less exciting. Too focused on sending a message and matching the Sooner physicality rather than making them earn their yards. But, maybe if they connected on a few of those Mysterious Package would sleep better at night.”

LOL, agreed. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at all of the shoulder led tackles. When your secondary is composed of underclassmen and the only older players on the field happen to be Gideon and Vaccaro we should expect hardhitting and message sending. Hopefully Akina and Diaz address this before OSU…

Nunna: that will look good when we want to get our next head coach. Don’t have a rebuilding year where you lose big or we cut your paycheck and make you earn it back. Urban Meyer will see that and yell, "sign me up!".

The blowout loses didnt happen for the 80 years of football history prior to Mack’s arrival. I’d say the next head coach is in the clear.

Nickel,

You can rip on Mysterious as much as you like. While he and I might not take the same approach concerning opposing fans, this much is for sure:

When it comes down to beating Oklahoma, he hates it. And I hate it. And there are lots of Texas fans who hate it.

But Mack Brown…he wants them to win it all.

That’s the difference in expectation and reality.

losing to Oklahoma

I’m so angry I can’t type.

BTJ,

I can’t verify their accuracy, but just a quick search from the 2000 NFL to date showed these numbers in offensive linemen.

Bama 9
Auburn 8
UGA 7
UF 6
LSU 6
FSU 9
Miami 10
Michigan 8
THE Ohio State 9
OU 8
USC 10
Wis. 10
TCU 6
Boise 3

I am too lazy to go back and compare the recruiting rankings and not sure what the numbers truly prove. The one bright side is if Texas fans are frustrated I am not sure how Richt is still at UGA. They have had a boatload of players taken and aside from the title won by Stafford and Moreno they don’t have much to show for it.

Nickel,

The wrong guy left in December. He should have left with all those guys he loved so dearly.

OL draft number in Mack Brown Era: 1999 draft – 2011 draft,

Tex: 8 with 2 1st rounders
OU: 8 with 2 1st rounders
Florida: 9 with 3 1st rounders
LSU: 7 with 0 1st rounders
USC: 10 with 2 1st rounders
Ohio st: 9 with 1 1st rounder

This day is shot for me. Sorry for any mistakes.

I don’t get all the calls for Urban. You mean the guy that let the Florida program slip on his watch after a few dominant years, plus either 1) has health issues that will prevent him from doing the job, or 2) walks away when the shit hits the fan? That’s the guy you want to come in? I’m not saying don’t replace Mack if he does not get it done soon, but for the love of god let’s find the right guy.

But consider this:

Stoops went to OU after a disastrous Blake regime and won the MNC his 2nd year

Saban went to LSU, took over a bad program and won MNC in 2nd year

Meyer went to Florida after Zook and won MNC in 2nd year

Les Miles went to LSU and won MNC in 2nd year

Tressel went to tOSU and won MNC in 2nd year

Mack Brown went to UT and got horsefucked by Stoops in 3rd year; also 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th years, even though, by all accounts, he had better talent/recruiting. Ditto 14th year.

I believe that if we got a new HC we could have a MNC his 2nd year. I have zero confidence that Mack Brown could do this. Ever.

JMHO.

Regarding “shoulder led tackles,” one has to wonder if the new penalty for leading with your helmet is having an effect on tackling basics. The defensive secondaries are especially effected by this.

BTJ – I agree with your line of thinking, but my conclusion is a little different. I don’t think it’s a function of socio-economic background so much as it’s a function of unbounded, indefatigable love for the game of football. As one example, Zach Thomas was a too-small, too-slow kid from a wealthy family, yet I don’t think anyone ever loved the game of football more. He always wanted to play for UT, but wasn’t recruited.

Football scouting services have reached a level of sophistication that allows them to correctly identify almost all of the superior athletes in high school. These kids receive four and five-star designations.

What’s harder for the recruiting services, and frankly still a crapshoot, is to identify those kids who truly love to hit and be hit – those kids who would suit up and play tackle football in the parking lot if they had to.

Unfortunately, the only way to separate the football players from the athletes is to watch lots of live practices and talk to lots of people. That’s hard work. It’s much easier to just text and e-mail all the four and five-star kids, and then rely on your material advantages to sell them on the program once you get them to campus.

ultralight,

Thanks for the updated list and more accurate numbers.

Off hand I forgot Big Mike, the Dockery brothers, and Leonard. Davis was not a Mack recruit and that would leave 7.

"Hopeful 4-0?"

We beat Rice (2-3), BYU (4-2), UCLA (3-3), and Iowa St (2-3). All four have offenses that rank among the worst in the country. Three of the four have defenses that rank among the worst in the country, and the one that doesn’t (BYU) we beat by a single point.

I’m glad we were 4-0 instead of 0-4. But there’s something deeply and seriously wrong at Texas when beating Rice, Iowa St and down UCLA/BYU programs actually generates hope.

LHS,

You step into every throw or the ball doesn’t get anywhere, buy windows or space is the same thing to me. My point was that with the push up the middle, plus our WRs getting jammed meant that out QBs didn’t get much of a chance. I’ll buy that the problem was timing but I don’t know how we could have had proper timing with the pressure.

I agree about the TEs and H-backs. Ironically, the only thing that seemed to kind of work was the old Greg Davis horizontal throw offense!

I am curious to see if we can make adjustments this week. We won’t face a defense that good again.

OB79: that’s fine. Extra hatred or bad sportsmanship won’t make Blaine Irby or DJ Grant better blockers or make David Ash be able to make quicker reads or master the footwork necessary in the passing game.

When mack was polite and we were winning games no one cared. People would turn on a bitter, aggressive and obnoxious coach just as quick if he lost games.

JR69: By that reasoning we would hire a new coach every 2 years. If a new coach came in with this bunch and won in 2 years I think the recruiting classes loaded with people like Shipley, Ash, Davis, Brown, Gray, Hopkins, Walters, Phillips, Diggs, Edmond, etc might have something to do with it.

Depth chart for OSU is up. At first glance the only change I see is Howell running ahead of Dorsey. Everything else looks the same.

At this juncture I expect our staff to know who our starters are. I’m afraid that what ails us is not lack of effort. It is what it is and there’s only so much you can do with what you have.

Our fanbase is as deluded as the people trying to fix our economy.

The issue of worker skills is certainly apropos imo. Skill workforces don’t spring up overnight, can’t patch this one up and expect anything other than short term returns that will eventually catch up with you. Most of us understand this on one level or another, but we let emotions cloud judgement and confuse long term fixes that run in the background with complacency.

I think our fanbase is childish in many respects. We have a mediocre team that has been overachieving, something that’s probably hard to reconcile given our past success. 8 wins out of this team would be a very good result, one that would point to an eventual end of the tunnel once the long term issues get resolved.

Dmitri,

I agree with part of what you are saying.

Unfortunately, the mistake with so much emphasis on the combine style evaluation of high school talent is that there is no accurate way to measure physical development and maturation a kid will see after the get out of high school.

They measure where a kid is now at a given point and assumes that everything is the same and constant. How many big kids struggle with their co-ordination because they grew 3-4 inches during the summer? How many kids gain weight and strength because for the first time in their life they get to eat three square meals a day or actually are going through an off-season program instead of playing sports year round?

It is the ability to project a raw high schooler in a given system that separates the coaches who are good at evaluating talent from the great ones. Look no farther than the offensive talents amassed at Texas in the junior and seniors on the roster and someone please tell me what the vision was for fitting those kids together in a cohesive offensive scheme.

Definitely agree on the need to do leg work, talk with people, see kids in a variety of environments, and the SPARQ lists and flag football tournaments just don’t cut it.

Davey — I didn’t bother with determining if they were Mack recruits or not. I think he really only loses credit for Humphrey in 1999.

So I ended up with:
2008 – Hills
2007 – Blaylock, Studdard
2006 – Scott
2003 – Dockery
2002 – Williams (1)
2001 – Davis (1)
1999 – J. Humphrey

“Extra hatred or bad sportsmanship won’t make Blaine Irby or DJ Grant better blockers or make David Ash be able to make quicker reads or master the footwork necessary in the passing game.”

Maybe I’m just not getting this across well: It isn’t about hatred or bad sportsmanship.

It’s about an attitude. It’s about an approach. Stoops doesn’t fuck around, and his players know it. You think that doesn’t cause them to practice harder, focus more, expect more of themselves than they would otherwise?

Meanwhile, Gideon fucks up over and over again, but damn it…he has bled for the program. Clap, clap, clap clap clap. Let’s get em next time, boys. Try not to bite next time, Blake. You can do it, son.

55-17.

We’ve got to go back and do better.

Rinse and repeat.

Well, I’m not going to go all Aggie and get into the psycho-emotional meltdown mentality. Yeah we lost. That in itself was not so surprising. What was surprising was by how much and what way.

But we’re not going to face another defense like that from any other B-12 team. In fact, as bad as 55 sounds, 21 of that was directly on the offense and maybe another couple scores were created by bad field position that the offense’s ineptitude put the D in. Simply put, I’ve watched every other Big-12 team play now and, it there may be by a big wide chasm between us and OU, but we have the second-best defense in the conference.

We may or may not win many more games this season, but unless the team collapses on themself, we’ll be in every one of the rest of them to the end. They’ll be a damn-sight more competitive than this one way.

I will give Mack and his staff credit that they did move Davis over to offensive tackle from defensive tackle.

Remember being at that Rice game in Houston when Big played defense before he got hurt and man did he look slow. Funny how you move him to the other side and he looked much quicker and the block he threw to spring Ricky on the record breaking run is something this team sorely misses in the running game. Big caved in the right side of the Aggie defensive front.

NickelRover: Of course the players would have something to do with it. You missed my point, which was that it doesn’t take years and years and years to get to championship level and I listed the examples showing this.

The right coach with the right attitude, PLUS players, facilities, etc., will get you there in as little as TWO years. Without the right coach, forget it, unless you happen to have Vince Young. (or, in Gene Chizik’s case, Cam Newton).

^

Sorry for all the shitty spelling.

I guess they saved Captian America’s wildcat for another game. Hell, he should have been the starting Qb.

Of all the failures from 2010, the one that stands out the most (other than Gilbert’s proclivity to throw the ball to other teams) is the clusterfuck at TE. Eight or nine fucking scholarship players, and not a single one can block AND catch? In fact, didn’t look like there was a single one who could block OR catch.

Of the coaches who didn’t get the pink slip, how is it possible that the TE position coach is one of them? No recruits (other than Irby, who I think I read basically recruited himself), and nobody trained up or stolen from the OL or DL… and he was all set to take the DISD job, but the job fell through, so Nice Guy Eddie Mack keeps him on? I vaguely recall that Tim Brewster was penciled in by quite a few, until Dallas came up short of funds. How many of you have a CEO who’d keep you on the payroll if you’d been on your way out the door, but your new job didn’t pan out?

Maybe Chryst was right.

Toadvine,

On a 3-step all you really need is a weight transfer.

LHS

I appreciate your calm and (clearly) knowledgeable analysis. As much as I want to join the venting, this is maybe a chance to understand some things as well as seek some catharsis; so help me understand what you’re saying. Toadvine’s point seems to be that the pass offense never had the window. Is your point that the failure of those plays was actually on the WR’s for getting their timing disrupted, such that the QB’s had the window but not the target? Or is your point that it’s on the QB for not reading the pressure correctly and bailing out to some other play?

Sorry, one more..

OR, are you saying that it’s more of a schematic failure for leaning on a play that as you say is difficult and time-consuming to get right?

Agreed, Davey. I didn’t mean to imply that mere love for the game was enough. It still takes certain baseline height/weight/speed chops to play for UT. My point was that given a choice between a superior athlete who tolerates physical contact, and a very good athlete who welcomes and initiates contact, I prefer the latter.

tx2step,

I’ll go into some detail on film later this week but it looked like to me that there are a number of problems that OU’s pressure exposed.

1) QBs did not recognize when we couldn’t protect/block a play and get us into a better call. That goes for Ash and McCoy. Iowa State exposed that we have some vulnerability to outside pressure and we didn’t enter this week with enough of a response in place for that. That’s on Harsin. It’s also probably a function of the QBs not being to a point where they really understand the intent and numbers on a play so their ability to recognize when we’re in trouble is diminished.

2) WRs did not alter their routes. I don’t know if that’s because we don’t have the checks in place or because they didn’t execute the checks but when you have more pass rushers than protectors they better damn well be some hot routes being run.

3) OLine whiffed on protections, particularly the offensive tackles

The quick passing game is still in a very rough skeleton mode. Bottom line, this offense isn’t ready to be in a pass first mode and we were forced into that mode by some bad errors and lack of communication. Once we were in a mode where we were trying to execute 3 and 5 step passing we were fried.

LS,

You could see the lack of step into the throw on Case’s long ball over the middle… No need to step into a 3 step drop, as you said simple weight transfer…

Longhorn Scott, I cant wait for your breakdown of this breakdown event.

LHS

Fair enough and that makes sense, thanks. I guess I kept thinking we would try more run-first if for no other reason than to try to keep OU’s offense off the field a bit longer. I’ll look forward (as always) to your tape review to see why that wasn’t workable in the moment.

Thanks again for bringing the discussion back to an actual post-mortem of the actual offense.

OB, JR: Stoops’ play through pain/injury, aggressive philosophy, and run up the score and physically intimidate MO is one way to achieve results. There are others. That’s not the reason he has beat up Mack, because that method is superior to all others.

That’s not the reason he has beat up Mack

ok, then what is?

ultralight said: October 10th, 2011 at 10:01 am
Davey — I didn’t bother with determining if they were Mack recruits or not. I think he really only loses credit for Humphrey in 1999.

So I ended up with:
2008 – Hills
2007 – Blaylock, Studdard
2006 – Scott
2003 – Dockery
2002 – Williams (1)
2001 – Davis (1)
1999 – J. Humphrey

So, nothing in 2009, 2010 and 2011. What the chance that Snow or Allen get in the 2012 draft? Probably not. That’s four straight years with no OL drafted. Actually, could be five years straight. The only Jr. this year is Poehlman for the 2013 draft.

Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but to go 5 years without an OL drafted is horrid.

OrangeBlood79 wrote: Nickel–we haven’t had offensive linemen or tight ends who could compete at this level in six years. SIX YEARS. I’m not laying this at the feet of Harsin and Diaz. I’m laying it at the feet of Mack Fucking Brown. "

You’re harping on the wrong point. This is not new information. We knew before the season began that OL and TE were huge problem areas. Nothing has changed since then. Mack did make a change, but the new OL coach has only been here for 8 months. OL is a position that takes a few years to make a significant change. I think we have the bodies with the last recruiting class and this to make a difference, but it may be another 1-2 years before the result on the field (recognition, skill development, strength) is meaningfully different.

Freshmen WR and RB have an easier time making an instant impact, so we see guys like Ship and Brown make a differecnce and wonder why the hell the OL isn’t instantly better too. It’s not a realistic expectation. And that was the point of Scip’s rehab analogy, ie, we should expect to pay for the sins of the past for some time.

Mack Brown sucks. He can pr with the best of them and makes tons of money while feeding off the sisters of the weak and poor but will get owned by a good coach unless he a transcendent QB at the helm.
I just can’t believe this shit is acceptable to so many Horn fans….“just wait until next year!”..wtf are we Aggies now?
Stoops owns Mack and I’m fed up with him and his powder puff mentality when it comes to football. We need gladiators out there. How on earth can we expect to field a team with a killer instinct when they don’t even get it from the head coach?
I’m sick of his “cookies and milk” approach to coaching. I’m also pissed that making money seems to be our only goal with this program. How else can you explain a man that led us to the 3 biggest blowout losses in the series history and never be put on notice by the administration?
He won us a NC.. yeah I know. You think we sniff that without Vince Young (who Mack didn’t want to recruit as a QB in the first place)? 2 Conference titles in 13 years…pathetic for a university like UT. We should be neck and neck with OU every freaking year.
For you sunshine pumpers…serious question..what in the hell would it take for you to want change at the top?
The most popular answer is always “You don’t remember what it was like before!!”…

YES I DO. I graduated UT in 1989. I know exactly what it was like before. That doesn’t excuse piss poor performance now.

End of rant

Fong:
Consistent and good recruiting to an established system with stable and strong player development. (Venables has been coaching their linebackers to be excellent since 1999, they don’t bring in outside guys often, they develop from within).

Superior gameplanning, better schemes, comparable athletes, that’s why.

Brickhorn is totally right about one thing fellas….the fried moon pie kicked ass.

From the sideline, the game resembled an overly cocky Junior High team taking on a brutally pissed 5A HS Varsity squad. We brought a young inexperienced par-baked offense and a duct taped defense to fight a peaking National Championship contender……so I can’t really cry about 18 year olds not being utilized properly.

Hopes and expectations hurt when one shows up and the other doesn’t. We hoped for a close loss. Deep down, I think we all expected the Stoops prison rape “make a statement” special. It’s Stoops.

The coaches have been working wonders with the circumstances they’ve been given……If anyone was not honestly expecting a 7-5 or 8-4 season, than Brickhorn is right about the only sane thing to do……panic bitches.

Toadvine is 100%, this is the best defense they will see all year, it will only make them better. They now know what a National Championship team looks like. They won’t forget it. Rebuilding sucks

One last thing, if you leave your starters in so you can throw the ball with a 31 point lead……someone needs to commit some personal fouls on those guys……I mean I’m not saying anything here, I’m jus sayin. You should protect your quarterback and star receiver. They might get, let’s just say, hurt or something god forbid.

Not sure why I’d do this when Texas has an excellent swim program.

Excellent comparison. You can change administrations, but when administration A spent years and years asleep at the wheel, and thus drove the economy into a ditch, no administration B, of any policy or outlook, is going to put things back in shape in lickety-split time.

Those shouting for Harsin’s head strike me as, well, painfully shortsighted and uninformed.

He is dramatically superior to Greg Davis by almost any metric you choose, and if you give him 2-3 years to recruit talent to suit his needs, you will see Texas make a legit return to the upper echelon of the college game. The case for Searels over MacWhorter is not as overwhelming, but I suspect it will play out in a similar fashion… given time.

I think it’s kinda amazing that a school that currently has 48 players in the NFL, according to ESPN, that we haven’t had an OL drafted since 2008.

Also interesting that since 1999 draft, OU has had 56 players drafted and Texas 52.
But Texas has 48 in the NFL and OU only 24.

“The only question: is Mack our Billy Sunday or our Elmer Gantry?”

Thank you parlin for summing up what is truly bothering so many of us. Scipio’s post about the outcome of this game being inexcorably tied to Mack’s addiction is spot on. Having been at the game, read the open thread last night and this one, I am left with parlin’s question dancing in my head as the only thing that really matters going forward and I don’t like the answer I am leaning toward after having watched this kind of brutal beating take place for the third time in Mack’s tenure here.

Those of you who talk about our youth and inexperience are correct. From a (luckily scored) seat on the 35 yard line, it was apparent when the two teams ran onto the field that it was physically men against boys and the game proved it. I have no criticisms to make of our new staff for yesterday. They have very little to work with. Scheme without ability to execute is a bad place to be as a coordinator/position coach, IMO. That said, we do have upperclassmen on this team and it was up to them to suck it up and spill their guts and they did not, with one lone exception. OU has done it before in their losses to us in the face of adversity, but we can’t seem to get our guys to play beyond themselves in a game that should mean everything to them as Longhorns and there is a reason and it is at the top of the coaching tree. Putting down the needle isn’t enough. You need to go out and preach to those who may have been harmed by your actions so that they can understand the damage that has been done and not fall victim to it again. John Madden and Bruce Chambers are still here. Should our players who see them every day look at them and really believe the culture, at its very core, has changed? If you still have these guys from the hood around, what message does it send about whether you are truly cured or just buyng time for your next weekend bender?

Of course I know we have no choice but to be patient. There is really nothing more we can do and I know I’ll be in DKR cheering my ass off on Saturday, hoping we respond to this huge setback, and it is a setback folks. The posts by OB79 and others are really just lenghty rants that are capsulized in parlin’s post and they are spot on. Who is Mack Brown the head coach now as compared to last year in reality? Please don’t respond with how nice and classy he is; we all know he is that. But who is he as a real football coach and has he really learned how much of the problem he is/was? Remember that he didn’t voluntarily check himself in to a rehab facility. The personnel changes he made were forced down his throat; think of them as an intervention.

The first step in recovery is admitting you have a problem, or so I’m told. Mack was forced to change the people around him, but can he change himself at his core? Does he truly understand the extent to which he individually caused our program to literally go from an MNC to rock bottom compared to Stoops’ teams in the past five years? Personnel wise there was a gap on the Cotton Bowl floor Saturday that made my jaw drop even before the game started. You can parse out which unit was more to blame than another until you are blue in the face, but we may have five players on our team that can start for OU right now. And before anyone thinks I’m making excuses, trust me I’m not!

Like others, I’m concerned that the man who enabled this and is still stalking the sidelines could not, as a leader, get any of our other upperclassmen to play with the heart that Fozzy Whitaker played with Saturday. I hope I see something from him today, this week or Saturday that will make me feel better. If we play competitively against OSU and still lose, then I will gladly go back to examining process and judging each week based on the level of improvement I see. If they put a beatdown on us at home, then the only people who can really make Mack change need to scare him straight in a fucking hurry or the changes he was forced to make will have been for naught, IMO.

I expected us to be no better than 4-2 after OSU. But I didn’t expect the humiliation I saw last Saturday, and I doubt any of you really did either. We need significant leadership from the $5 million man now that our team has gone from steady improvement to being completely embarrased in the biggest game on our schedule. Show us Mack, who you really are. Pick this team up off the floor and make them believe in themselves and, more importantly, make them believe in you.

As far as whatever decision is made at QB, I don’t care what it is as long as it’s made with a view toward evaluation of the players themselves and not some fear of how somebody’s family might react. If such a potential issue even exists, it needs to be cut out like a cancer and incinerated before it spreads.

I expected us to be no better than 4-2 after OSU. But I didn’t expect the humiliation I saw last Saturday, and I doubt any of you really did either. We need significant leadership from the $5 million man now that our team has gone from steady improvement to being completely embarrased in the biggest game on our schedule. Show us Mack, who you really are. Pick this team up off the floor and make them believe in themselves and, more importantly, make them believe in you.

Jake: nail meet hammer.

Its not unreasonable to expect us to play tough smart football well enough to not get the doors blown off by OU time and time again. All we as fans want to see is competitive fire and improvement. We all get Mack is classy and runs a clean program but damnit, have some self respect. There is never an acceptable time to get blown out by our biggest rival. Its happened 3 times on his watch now. We are being groomed into thinking “next year” all too often.

Excellent point Ultra……

After a lose like that I want some accountablity. Goodwill was used up last year. Even though I think we have some great new coordinators, that does not give Mack another free pass this year. Its one thing to lose a game to OU (historically we have won at a 60% clip so losing to them consistantly means you just dont belong here in the longterm) but it is quite another to get blown out by 5 plus TDs again and again. The seat will be getting warmer for Mack this time around make no mistake about it. You cannot draw 100K a week and produce that kind of result without dealing with some fall out. 5-7 was bad enough but we dont have to put up with this type of regular abuse for much longer. I dont want to see that kind of effort/lopsided game again from Mack again.

Jake:

+1

We get blown out again this week at home and we are not only in trouble this season but next. OSU is really good on offense, but our offense needs to play above their heads against a questionable defense and keep the ball away from them to help our defense who I don’t think is as bad as others think even with young pieces in some places.

One last thing, if you leave your starters in so you can throw the ball with a 31 point lead……someone needs to commit some personal fouls on those guys……I mean I’m not saying anything here, I’m jus sayin. You should protect your quarterback and star receiver. They might get, let’s just say, hurt or something god forbid.

Glad I’m not the only one thinking this in the 4th quarter. You’re losing by 35+. WTF difference is a 15 yard penalty gonna make. We’ve been talking about consequences. Instill some consequences on the f***ers if they want to keep putting them in harms way of a game that’s over. I’m not even saying you try to injure them, but make sure they’re gonna be sucking wind trying to get air back in there lungs and GD sore for the next few days.

Jake, that’s great stuff all the way around. I started writing a long response to it in this thread that I think I’m going to turn into a post, but I think your perspective is a very good one.

Those shouting for Harsin’s head strike me as, well, painfully shortsighted and uninformed.

I haven’t read every post but I haven’t seen anyone say this. Maybe I’ve missed it. If so then that’s flat out wrong. Now Mack on the other hand….that’s a different matter.

It concerns me when I see Blake Gideon smiling at the post game conference. It concerns me when Adrian Phillips says “Today just wasn’t our day”. Get fucking mad! Admit that you got embarrassed, say it is unacceptable and that you will be bringing 110% for the rest of the season!

Where’s the fire guys? Why aren’t the coaches and players pissed at the conferences? Why aren’t they apologizing to fans and vowing to fix their shitty play?

Someone on Orangebloods posted our offensive reccruiting class lists from 2006-2010. It is an excellent reminder as to why our best player on offense is a true freshman, and why we have exactly one dependable WR. 1.5 if you count Mike Davis.

4thn5,

What does getting mad at the press conference prove? That you can yell at reporters or that you are all talk? The guys practice Sunday, Tues, Weds, Thurs… They can take out the aggression there…

Nunnayobizness: Two questions: 1). Who brought Harsin here? 2). How do we keep our OC if we hire a new coach?
Unless it’s a defensive guy, Harsin, or Peterson I don’t see that working. Most coaches have pretty strict ideas about what they want to do on offense with their own team.

The biggest concern all of this gives me goes beyond this season to the effect on recruiting. Up to this point everyone, including recruits for the most part have been able to believe that the embarassments to OU and underachieving seasons were in the past with the new coaching staff. Everyone has been able to believe that we’d be much improved this year and the future looked very bright in the forseeable future with regard to reaching the kind of level this program should be at.

But after seeing the same old shit in the Cotton Bowl I no longer have that confidence. The bigger concern is how many recruits no longer have that confidence. How many of them saw that and concluded that with Mack there it’s going to be the same old shit.

Up to now our recruiting class has looked stellar. I’ll be really interested to see if we can hang on to them. If not, things could start to get ugly fast since we’re relying on the next coulple of recruiting classes to get us out of the hole Mack’s laziness has put us in. And I think you can probably put a fork in the chances of getting ANY of the remaining top notch recruites we’ve been going after like Agholor, DGB, and even the remaining guys in state. At this point we better pray this team looks a hell of a lot better the rest of the season or some of the guys currently committed are going to realize it’s the same old shit with Mack still here and reconsider their options.

There was too much playing of the 5 TO card, for my taste. Like they are created by a random number generator and not by OUs pressure making us uncomfortable and knocking balls loose, or our inability to secure the football.

Some great stuff all around.
 
The venting is understandable and expected.
 
Some quick responses:
 
- My point with respect to the QB position is that our total inability to audible out of bad play calls mingling with their desire to extend plays that could only end badly was a dangerous mix. Even if the play does blow up, in a game of this magnitude, your primary and only goal is to eliminate the potential for turnover. Take the sack, put it in the cheap seats, take a knee if you have to. The QB is the only player on the field who can do this. Clearly apportioning percentages of blame is fairly meaningless when your entire offensive unit is crushed. I’m just saying the crushing doesn’t have to result in 3 defensive TDs. This is a simple function of youth, inexperience, and in McCoy’s case, some physical issues. The game was a complete blur to them. It was written all over their play.
 
- Our OL can get markedly better if we can get OT play, develop a legitimate 10 players to compete for 5 spots with another 5 guys redshirting in the wings. One of the demons of our past is that we always press our OL into action two years early and they show little development over time. We’re basically starting 5 interior OL. We’ve got some guys in the pipeline but relying on 1st and 2nd year OL is what got us into trouble in the first place. Watch some Kennedy Estelle film to be reminded of what a real OT prospect looks like. This is going to take a little time to solve and no amount of scheming can fix pass protection on 3rd and 9 against a real defense.
 
- There’s little we could do from a simple game planning perspective to affect outcomes on offense. Young offenses can’t change plays seamlessly at the QB, OL, WR levels. Certainly Fozzy couldn’t from the Wildcat and he’s not much of a passing threat.

- None of OU’s blitzes were particularly complex. They just play fast and could operate with certainty in ways that our defense could not.

Sorry but I just found this funny…

For all of you Mack apologist:

“Gratitude is the guilt of the unworthy”

Good points Scip, game management is a reason I suspect for Gilbert starting out of the fall. Once he started throwing picks, had to throw that out the window. The young guys have to learn, one thing that has made Landry a better player than he was when Aaron Williams inserted him into the game 2 years ago is that he more frequently recognizes when to protect the ball rather than trying to make something happen.

I’m not talking about yelling at reporters, I’m talking about owning up to your shit in front of your supporters and letting them know that you’re on the mother fucker.

We all (mostly all) wonder how Stoops can hand Mack his ass every few years, despite our “top five” recruiting classes being at least as good as his, and by most accounts better…well, here is my thought:

Mack Brown doesn’t have an inflated ego…

Oh, he has pride and is a consensus builder, a wonderful collector of adoring fans (including the all important media types), and CEO’s a ton of money from Longhorn Football into Belmont’s coffers….but, when you meet him, your walk away is “That’s one of the nicest guys I’ve EVER met !”…I wonder how often that happens with Saban, Chizik, Miles, Meyer, Patterson, etc., not to mention Stoops…I doubt often…

Now, inflated ego doesn’t guarantee a successful program (look at Charlie Weis) but, in college football, where teams that are playing unpaid (allegedly anyway), youths who thrive on emotion and attitude fair much better when fed that diet on game day than those who are not…so, you tell me, looking at the sidelines last Saturday, which Head Coach looked better able to handle that task? I don’t just mean Mack’s out of shape, old man looking demeanor, but his smiling, hand clapping, kinda lost looking ambling about one….this is a nice guy, kinda fatherly sort, who just hopes and doesn’t really have a plan other than doing the next right thing…whatever that may be…even after the game, after once again suffering a historic margin of defeat and losing to OU the #4 position on the all time win list % (we dropped from 3 to 5), he loves on Stoops…think Stoops would have done the same? Doubt it…

Now Mackovic was an inflated ego…what’s the difference between his failure and a guy like Stoops’ success? I don’t think he really liked Texas, it’s culture, and traditions…plus he didn’t give a shit about defense (and you can’t say that about Stoops, or most of the other guys I mentioned above)….so, like I said to start this thing out, you need the right inflated ego fit to be successful, and it is probably a crap shoot…

To me, and I have been a Mack supporter, we should have rolled the dice last year if we are going to bitch this year…face it, we need to give this staff some time to impose their fire into the bellies of their respective areas’ players, because Mack ain’t…never has and never will…

That said, I am still going to the game Saturday, and I still say

Hook’em!!!!

Let’s just hope one of the freshman who took that ass whipping internalized it the way VY would have and distilled it into something strong and nasty. We need leadership for this week. I don’t know where it’s going to come from, but we need it.

Been a lurker but drawn out now.

We have to improve nothing else is acceptable, but I will give them all the time needed to improve.

To think about:

Stoop at OU win loss % is 80.6%, he is 6-6 against Texas, and has 1 MNC

Mack at Texas is 79.6%, is 7-6 against OU, and has 1 MNC

I’ll take Mack and what he stands for. He just better get back to the tradition of winning.

Nunnayobizness: Two questions: 1). Who brought Harsin here? 2). How do we keep our OC if we hire a new coach?

Regarding a new coach, it’s too late for that and I said so. I wanted Mack gone in the offseason but he didn’t think overseeing the demise of the program was bad enough that he should leave for it (or that his buddy’s should leave either since he was forced to make those moves). It’s too late now with him still here and a new staff. We have to make the best of what we have.

That said though, none of that keeps Mack from taking some personal responsibility for the shit product on the field and the fact that his laziness over many years caused it, and ask for a pay cut until he proves he has the program back on top. And as I said earlier, the program probably wouldn’t cut his pay if he asked because of how that would look, so Mack should take a pay cut by contributing $1 million per year to the University scholarship fund.

Unfortunately, as I mentioned in my last post, if recruits start to see what a lot of us do (that a new staff with Mack still in charge means the same old shit) then even the future we’ve been looking toward may start to look pretty much like the present.

Stoops is 7-5 against Texas. He also has 7 Big 12 titles.

I should have said some time to improve. Not all the time needed.

Holy shit. I come here to read scips breakdown (well done btw) start reading comments and I thought I stumbled upon an aggie board. Seriously? Meltdown in full force.

Lets jusy

Stoops is 8-5 against Mack.

“Stoops is 8-5 against Mack.”

You’re right. Forgot to count this year.

I left out this year. Not doing well for a first post.

Mack – 7-7 vs OU

Stoops 7-6 vs TX as I am reading it. He started in 1999 didn’t he?

Longhorn Til Death -
 
Mack is 6-8 against OU.
 
He is 5-8 against Stoops.

OU won in ’00, ’01, ’02, ’03, ’04, ’07, ’10, ’11
UT won in ’99, ’05, ’06, ’08, 09

Stoops is 8-5 vs/ Texas/ Brown is 6-8 against OU and 5-8 vs Stoops. Stoops is steaming towards CC number 8. Mack has 2 CC in 28 years as a head coach.

Looks like confirmation bias is running rampant. Yes, Stoops plays his starters late into the game and runs up scores. But it’s bitten him on the ass, too. When we’d won four out of five, we were talking about the hangover from OU’s class bust (everyone but the punter, iirc). Now, we’re sorting for blowouts. The mind is a weak thing.

Texas has two quarterbacks: a fetus and a premie. Sometimes the rest of the nursery will be able to shoehorn a win, but against top-flight competition? Don’t be stupid. A legit, top-five team will skewer these babes on spits. There will be no miracle season, only smarter football than we’re used to seeing. The objective is a winning season and a bowl game, not a Hollywood finish.

I wonder if getting their head slammed in the door by OU will keep the Longhorns from losing focus like they did against ISU? A 4-2 Texas team will have a chance to show whether they’ve grown up or not against Kansas, Halloween weekend. If, during the second half of that game, the starters aren’t already mentally out texting while driving into buildings or liberating plasmas from neighbor’s apartments, I’ll believe they can go 3-2, rather than 2-3, the rest of the season.

You guys still hav’nt figured out your offense is just Colorado and Case is a Cody Hawkins clone?

Jake,

Your question does address the fundamental concern here.

My opinion on the matter is, “Wherever you go, there you are.” Mack is not going to change. Oh, he might change coordinators when forced to, and he might be more fiery on the sidelines at times, but Mack is Mack.

He’s becoming like Joe Pa, like Bobby Bowden. He either serves as figurehead and gives control to his coordinators, or he continues with the status quo.

Someone prove me wrong.

Lets just fire mack now for his past mistakes (that he corrected) and be done with him. While we are at it lets get rid of the whole staff and start new. Again. Rebuilding is a myth. Time for a new staff and new schemes. If the new staff doesn’t fix everything in 8 months, it’s time for a new one. But for sure get rid of mack, he has brought nothing to this program. Not one thing.

“nobis60 said: October 10th, 2011 at 11:41 am

Jake, that’s great stuff all the way around. I started writing a long response to it in this thread that I think I’m going to turn into a post, but I think your perspective is a very good one."

Thanks! That’s high praise considering the source. I think a lot of people are missing the point, even those who are venting the most about it, but parlin absolutely nailed it in one sentence. I just tried to expound. I look forward to that post.

Somewhere in Key West, a pirate is laughing his ass off…

“The only question: is Mack our Billy Sunday or our Elmer Gantry?”

I would say he is Billy’s associate pastor.

Point 1 – Heads
It’s frustrating. Georgia’s going through roughly the same thing right now, though they might be putting some things behind them now. People like Richt. They know he can be very successful. They have a hard time understanding how Richt let the program sink so far so fast. And so they spend all their time wondering who’s running the show – the good Mark or the bad Mark? It’s an act of faith for them right now, and it’s going to be one for Texas fans, too. They spend way too much time reading the tea leaves, looking for signs. It’s pointless, ultimately.

I’ll say this for Saturday. They looked overwhelmed, but they didn’t look complacent or entitled. You could see the thought process and the effort, and unfortunately, football at that level has to be instinctive once the ball snaps. Experience doesn’t mean much if the other team has more talent. It’s a difference maker if the talent’s roughly equal. It’s a force multiplier if the team with more talent also has more experience. So I am not as worried about the final score as most. Disappointed, yes. Worried moving forward, no.

Just wondering. Everyone who was complaing about all the conference realignment talk last week and wanted to focus on discussing what happens on the field….is this kinda what you had in mind. Maybe some realignment talk wouldn’t be so bad after all.

Point 2: Tails

Alabama’s never had a coach who failed to win 10 seasons (except the one who got fired before he even coached a game, whoever he was). Some programs will experience a certain level of success with anyone at the helm. Texas should win 8-9 games a year period with competent coaching and 10-11 games a year with great coaching. There’s no reason Oklahoma-Texas shouldn’t be a national semi-final every other year, given the combination of the way Texas schedules out of conference and the overwhelming advantages Texas brings to the table in conference. Anything less than that, honestly, has to rank as underachievement. 2008-2009 felt like an arrival at a permanent destination, and then we got kicked out of the club.

Those are reasonable expectations in the long-term. Anyone who thinks they’re not isn’t paying attention.

Mack said: There’s no reason Oklahoma-Texas shouldn’t be a national semi-final every other year, given the combination of the way Texas schedules out of conference and the overwhelming advantages Texas brings to the table in conference. Anything less than that, honestly, has to rank as underachievement.

Those are reasonable expectations in the long-term. Anyone who thinks they’re not isn’t paying attention.

I wish Mack really did say that.

Mack should reap what he sowed. I have no problem with him being on a short leash, I don’t see why we should hang on to futility. That written, the reality is that the leash should be more than one season short. But he should be reminded of his sins until he atones for them.

I look back at the OL classes from the last 5 years (1997 – 2011) and I just don’t see where the “lazy recruiting/evaluation” angle comes from, other than hindsight. Two of those classes, (2007 and 2009) were thought to be epic, and each of the other classes included at least one player in the top 100 in the nation. Its not like 80% of these guys weren’t also being heavily pursued by OU, A&M, etc. I think people are forgetting how Allen, Huey and Poehlman were heavy A&M leans that had to be turned, or that Porter was considered by some recruiting sites to be one of the top OL in the nation (along with Walters in the same year). The biggest “reach”/“Mack Brown offer”/etc. during that period was Kelley and he’s probably the best OT on the team right now.

My only gripe with the recruiting decisions during that period was the short-sighted decision to only recruit 2 in 2010.

It’s not about the recruiting or evaluation, IMO.

And for the record, the best OL we have signed since Tony Hills Jr., failed out and is now playing for the Chicago Bears.

And as a follow up to the lazy recruiting/mail-it-in points, I get the impression you could say that about every position and player in the 2012 defensive recruiting class except for one. We still haven’t addressed our biggest need on defense (a need I’m glad everyone has finally come around to admitting to), and at this point we only seem to even be chasing one freak pass rusher and he is a long-shot at best. Why isn’t there any angst directed towards the new staff because of this?

For all you db’s expressing the need to stop recruiting nice guys and start recruiting angry guys, consider the following:

Jaxon/Jordan Shipley – nice guys. Colt McCoy – nice guy. Quan Cosby – nice guy. Blalock…Orakpo… the Acho brothers – Nice guys. Earl Campbell and Ricky Williams – nice guys. Eric Metcalf, Aaron Williams, Priest Holmes, David Thomas, etc etc.

But yeah, let’s ditch the nice guys and go recruit some thugs. They won’t play any better, but when THEY get whipped because of 5 turnovers, they’re sure to start a fight or something.

goddamn some of you guys are dipshits. did y’all not witness our baby tossed in a dumpster that was filled with flaming michelins of a season last year? who do you think would turn that into more than about 8 wins? this sort of shit takes time to fix. if you want Mack gone or whatever…fine. it’ll only add to how much longer we wait

my biggest gripe is that harsin and manny came into the game with the reputation of making great in-game adjustments etc…

i knew the game was lost at halftime but i was really excited to see what changes the coaches would make at the break after having a whole half to see what OU was doing to us. However, i didn’t see any scheme adjustments that changed from the 1st half which was the most frustrating part of the whole day.

i don’t know but it seemed that the game may have been too fast for our coaches too which leaves me speechless and dumbfounded

i knew the game was lost at halftime but i was really excited to see what changes the coaches would make at the break after having a whole half to see what OU was doing to us.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face."
― Mike Tyson

To expect there to be successful adjustments schematically to counter bigger, stronger, faster is not realistic.

I look back at the OL classes from the last 5 years (1997 – 2011) and I just don’t see where the "lazy recruiting/evaluation" angle comes from, other than hindsight.

Chris Hall & Charlie Tanner & Britt Mitchell weren’t exactly 5-star specials, yet they all lined up as starters during the time when the Horns should have been riding post-NC legacy recruits.

All the harping about Mack wont fix the turnovers, We had 22 first downs in the game, had the ball 37 minutes. If we had not been raped by take aways, these baby Longhorns would have given Stoops a scare. Turnovers happen, and these kids just learned how fast and strong you need to be to play with the big boys. We had a big plus takeaway margin going into this game, no way did i think we would have had 5 turnovers. That had not really been a problem this year. The odds caught up with this young team. I dont think we are dealing with a turnover machine like we had with GG last year. Now that the problem has been exposed, lets see if it gets fixed. If it does we have a good chance this week of winning the game against OK lite.

Why is this so difficult to understand? Scip spelled it out…Saturday was a result of past failures. We can grow from it or get out.

If you can’t take the heat, get out of the damned kitchen. I can take it. Can you?

Hook ’em!

Playing much inferior competiion lulled us all into believing we were something we are not. We are still a very average football team and will be so for the remainder of this year. 7-5 should you be your ceiling, not your floor, if you’re making predictions at home.

And I’ve never been a big fan of Mack as a HC. Great guy I’m sure, probably make for a good AD. But as a HC, I’ve always been of the opinion that you need someone with a hardass mentality unless your talent disparity is so large it doesn’t matter (I’m looking at you VY). A la Stoops, Saban, Meyer, Peterson, etc.

I was happy to see that no one got injured.

As to the young QB’s, we’ve got two pups to choose from – one is a pit bull and the other a poodle. It’s time to bite the bullet and let the pit bull do his thing. We could still salvage a pretty good season, but there has to be resolution of the QB rotation.

Also, I am not advocating ditching the avuncular nincompoop right now as it would indeed set us back. We let that ship sail already. But, there absolutely needs to be a commitment on the part of the Big Cigar types to allow him get us back to a point of stability and then get on down the road. That way we don’t have to blow everything up and start right back at square one. It is what it is.

Unfortunately, Mack is an all-consuming black hole of mediocrity and he will absolutely suck the whole enterprise back into the abyss again if he is afforded the opportunity.

A big part of the TE blocking problem is that they are small, they are all in the 230-239 pound range except for 1 who is 245.

Harsin has optimized his scheme not for playing a defense as good as OU’s but for the much lesser defenses that UT faces in all of the rest of the games. His approach is actually very traditional, first establish the run and, once that is done, play action pass every now and then. This approach really reduces the stress on UT’s young QBs. Texas should be able to run the ball well on most of the teams that we will play henceforth this season. When Texas can’t run well, it will get ugly because Case and Ash are not yet close to ready to put a team on their back.

To play a defense with a really good front 7, Harsin would have to implement a short passing attack that takes the stress off the horns OL. It isn’t clear that either Ash or Case have the realtime analytical skills to make that work efficiently.

Anyone think OU found something on film. They blew up at least 4 plays by Fleming blitzing in from the corner when lined up on the short side of the field. 3 runs and 1 screen.

We are gonna see a crapload of blitzes from here on out.

“If we had not been raped by take aways, these baby Longhorns would have given Stoops a scare.”

I doubt that seriously.

“Turnovers happen…The odds caught up with this young team.”

More a case of not taking normal precautions to protect the ball. The two fumbles by Case were the result of holding the ball in one hand at arms length in the middle of a maelstrom of OU defenders. Protect the ball. The strip of Mike Davis was so easy for the defender it was nearly inexplicable. The point is that none of those 3 fumbles was the result of a defender putting his helmet on the ball but were examples of handing the ball to the defense.

Fixing the extraordinarily poor ball protection probably won’t get fixed in one week, but even if it did, it is not likely that UT beats Ok State. My revised goal is to see big identifiable improvements from week to week (become more process oriented in my fan-aticism than results oriented). I’ll be very interested to see if our DC alters his bend don’t break strategy vs OSU. Bend don’t break has problems when confronted with very efficient offenses.

Monty:

You had the ball for 37 minutes BECAUSE OF the turnovers. Your offense was very clearly not up to the task. And you were nowhere near “putting a scare” in anyone under any hypothetical situation. Good Lord, man.

“We are gonna see a crapload of blitzes from here on out.”

For sure that is true. The bad thing is that these blitzes have a good chance at running into a ball carrier and throwing him for a loss, thus putting the horns behind schedule wrt down vs distance. The horns don’t handle 3rd and long situations well.

The horns need to improve their short passing game and get the ball to Foz and Monroe and Goodwin in space via short passes. Monroe may not have the route running and catching skills to play WR but he can catch a real short pass and then run like hell. Short passes on first down are easy to complete and get you ahead on down vs distance.

Like to run the wild much more on running downs. Like to see Mykk as a wild QB.

What remains is that Mac Brown steals $5MM a year from us. Yes we’re a profitable program, the most profitable in the nation, but how much is Mack really contributing to that fact?

“my biggest gripe is that harsin and manny came into the game with the reputation of making great in-game adjustments etc…

i knew the game was lost at halftime but i was really excited to see what changes the coaches would make at the break after having a whole half to see what OU was doing to us. However, i didn’t see any scheme adjustments that changed from the 1st half which was the most frustrating part of the whole day."

One adjustment Harsin did make was to throw more short passes on first down. It worked pretty well. Don’t remember whether he made the adjustment in the first half or the second half.

I think we’re going to end up seeing a larger back in the backfield to help out with pass protection. Seems like Bergeron would be a good fit for this. Also, the QB has to see where the pressure is coming from and shift the back to the other side.

When most of the coaches were let go or reassigned after the 2010 season, it was obviously an indictment of Mack. If Mack had been fired at that time it would have devastated recruiting. Now that the new coaches are settled in, the impact on recruiting by Mack leaving would be much, much smaller.

Mack has been amazing for the Texas program but that does not mean that you can’t find a better coach than Mack (as he is now) for $5 million bucks. For example, if the horns could hire Chris Peterson to replace Mack, I’d do it. The proper approach for DeLoss to take is to identify that short list of potential replacements that are a clear upgrade relative to Mack and be ready to pull the trigger when one of them wants to come to Texas. Mack is not going to stay in this job forever and it will be much better for the program if Mack leaves when it is optimal for the program.

Stoops must have subscribed to the LHN and been watching those live Tuesday and Wednesday practices.

Someone said with succinct clarity: “The fact that we had ELEVEN freshmen playing is an indication of failed evaluations in previous classes”. I can only say AMEN!

Bill Powell, Deloss Dodds AND Mack Brown have brought the University to the prominance it now enjoys. You are delusional if you don’t believe Mack was a principal in this. The fact remains, Bob Stoops has always dones a superior job of getting his teams prepared when facing Texas. Mack, with the exception of freakish talent, has typically been out coached by him.
Lest we forget, the powerhouse teams that we have enjoyed under Macks tutelege has been primarily because of his excellent recruiting classes and UT’s superior talent has covered mediocre coaching – for the most part.

Here it is in a nutshell and it galls me to say it – Bob Stoops would have done better with our kids than Mack did – THIS YEAR.

Tell me how wrong you think I am – if you can.

Please forgive my cryptic and sometimes non-sensical sentence structure – my eyesight ain’t what it used to be.

So fucking tired of Mack Brown.

Thanks for the good times, but just retire already, old man. I want someone tireless, ruthless, and obsessive about making Texas great instead of some sweet old classy nice guy who can’t get out of his own fucking way half the time.

“I will root for OU to win the MNC.” -texasengr

Please just die.

Suffering such a humiliating, reputation damaging loss as the thrashing by OU last Saturday is obviously not grounds by itself for firing Mack. What it does do is to shock the fan base out of the complacency and sense of entitlement that affects many Texas fans. We thought the program had advanced beyond those beatdowns and are shocked or reminded that we have fallen so far so fast. It makes us think deeply about the program.

For those of us who have been following the horns and college football for many years, we know that it is very difficult to stay on top, very easy for a program to slip for decades. DKR retired in 1976. Mack was hired at Texas 22 years later in 1998. DKR won his last MNC in 1970. Mack won his MNC 35 years later in 2005. 35 years between MNCs.

For most coaches, their career has an ascending phase where they are mastering their craft, a plateau phase when they are in their prime, and a declining phase as they get older. As people get older, at some point they become less energetic, less driven by career ambition, and not as intellectually sharp.

For Texas to stay on top, to remain an elite program, it must be led by one of the very best coaches in the country. It is much easier to land the best coach when the program is still an elite program. Mack was great for Texas but is he still at the top of his game? Nobody claims that Mack is an elite strategist; Mack is a CEO coach who recruited extremely well. Mack was forced to fire most of his staff after the disastrous 2010 season, an obvious repudiation of Mack’s ability to keep his staff sharp. That is a devastating weakness for CEO coach.

Recently Mack was forced to fire one of his coaches (with who Mack was very close) for sexual harassment. This is a devastating blow to a coach who prides himself on maintaining a family atmosphere in his program.

The ratings for Mack’s recruiting have stayed excellent but the quality of the recruiting actually must have slipped for a few years because so many frosh and sophs are playing. The cupboard is relatively bare in the junior and senior classes. Mack can still persuade recruits to play for Texas but maybe his evaluation skills have slipped.

Mack admitted that he was in a depression after losing his mother and the MNC game and that his performance in 2010 suffered as a result. It is nearly impossible to imagine the monomaniacal Saban or Stoops having that problem.

The disastrous 2010 season should have been a rebuilding year for the horns but Mack blew it. Obviously 2011 is a rebuilding year. Pundits are telling us that 2012 is likely to be a rebuilding years as well. When Mack was in his prime, Texas did not have to spend 3 years rebuilding, it reloaded.

There are a lot of signs that 60 year old Mack is starting the declining phase of his career:

• Physically he seems to have aged quite a bit recently. He is a lot heavier, eating on the sideline during the game.
• Disastrous 2010 season.
• 2010 was also a wasted season in terms of rebuilding.
• Comprehensive failure to keep his staff elite, as evidenced by being forced to get rid of most his coaches after the 2010 season
• Long lasting depression after losing the MNC and his mother
• Widespread recruiting failures in the junior and senior classes; recruiting used to be Mack’s strong suit
• Embarrassing/humiliating 55-17 beatdown by OU
• Rebuilding phase looks to require at least 3 years

The best strategy is to start looking for Mack’s replacement now. Very few coaches are qualified to head the best football program in the country (which is our goal, right?). Finding such a rare coach may take years. Best to start the process now. When the right guy is found, his schedule, not Mack’s, will determine when the transition occurs.

Said this on the Defense thread already, but why not give Bible or Dorsey a look at OT?

Why don’t all you that love Stoops so much jusy become an OU fan?

It’s not love, twit. It’s white-hot hatred combined with grudging admiration that follows from recognizing reality.

Alternatively, I suppose I could just answer in this way: Because, unlike you, we love Texas far more than any coach, here or elsewhere.

Then:

Come early, Wear orange, Be loud, and Stay Late.

I do and always will.

If we fire Mack (which i’m not saying we should or shouldn’t) we will be firing the whole staff as well.

No big time coach is going to come in here and not bring his own guys. That doesn’t happen period.

If we are ok with that, fine, so be it. We then need to be ready for a big time rebuilding.

Wouldn’t we be fighting with tOSU for the SuperCoach? Maybe not – seems like they’ll be begging Urban to come home and lead them out of the wilderness… and they’ll wind up with players in the slammer instead of on suspension. Works for me, I want no part of Urban Meyer after that ridiculous exit from Gatorville.

LonghornTilDeath = Mack’s Robot.

-Monty
“….no way did i think we would have had 5 turnovers. That had not really been a problem this year. The odds caught up with this young team.”

cannot agree with this statement. It wasn’t odds catching up with a young team. The young team was simply outmatched. It’s fine, they won’t always be young…but don’t make the turnover scenario appear to be a fluke or the result of the odds finally catching up.

I’m not saying fire Mack. I’m just saying its time to put Chris Peterson on speed dial.

put Chris Peterson on speed dial

Not a speling notsie, but if you’re gonna be calling him, you might want to spell his name the same way he does.

Mack Brown IS The University of Texas. I love him and am so glad he came to our school. I’m hoping, when he finally steps down, that he lands a prominent job with the university – I always thought he would be the ideal replacement for DeLoss.

Mack was our first stage replacement for years of embarrasing hires. He is a master recruiter and won over the states high school coaches for wanting to send their kids to our school.

But now is the time for our SECOND stage hire – A ruthless, genius with a killer instinct and would rather sell his kids then lose. And God help any of his coaches that didn’t feel the same. There are a couple out there, but not many. Despite what LonghortilDeath said, he is not being realistic. I grew up in Austin, played ball for UT and graduated from Texas medical school – I can’t BE more of a Texas supporter. As such, I want our team to win – EVERY TIME.And, I don’t want them to just win, I want them to win convincingly and to CRUSH OU everytime we play them. So, I want the coach that believes the same as I do – One guy that seems to fit that mold is a guy named – wait for it – Bob Stoops. Hell, we are UT, we get WHAT we want and WHO we want – if Stoops is the guy, lets just go get him. It kills two birds with one stone – eliminates a hated enemy and gets us a killer coach.
Now, I am going to run to the bathroom and throw up a little.

Besides, we have always done pretty good with ex-ou coaches – hell, we even named our stadium after one.

Hell maybe we can even get the pride of OU to come help with recruiting too – Switzer

Toad -
 
Said this on the Defense thread already, but why not give Bible or Dorsey a look at OT?
 
Because they represent the worst possible body type for OT.

When Mack eventually retires, most likely it will be pretty soon after the season. There is always a rush to get the replacement coach hired quickly to protect the quality of the recruiting class to be signed just a month or two later. This rush to hire is not conducive to finding an elite coach of DKR or even Mack Brown quality. It is easily possible, even probable that such an elite coach will not be available that month. This is a key point: if Mack is replaced as a result of a crappy season or because he just happens to retire, it is likely that the elite, good character coach UT requires is simply not available during that small window of a few weeks when the hiring process occurs. UT would then be forced to hire an inadequate replacement who would occupy the head coaching job for a few years and preside over the decline of the UT program. Many UT fans would say that the new coach is entitled to several seasons to recruit his own people, to be given a fair chance to succeed. The more the UT program declined, the harder it would be to attract a coach capable of winning MNCs for UT.

To maximize the chances of hiring the elite coach that is both the right personality/character for UT and a coach who is going to win MNCs at UT, UT has to determine the timing of that process. UT has to find that guy and sign him before Mack decides to retire or is forced out.

DeLoss Dodds became UT AD in 1981, 5 years after DKR retired. He hired Mack in 1998. It took DeLoss 17 years to hire a coach that was able to win an MNC at UT. 17 years is a long time. After that, it took Mack 4 years before he recruited the Vince Young recruiting class in 2002. That class was the core of the UT team that won the MNC in 2005.

It was a very difficult and a very long process for UT to hire a coach that was both a good fit wrt character/personality and could win an MNC for UT. To optimize its chances for finding that unique coach, UT must find and sign that next head coach at a time of their choosing, not when Mack randomly decides he wants to retire or has such a bad season that he is forced out. The process to find and sign Mack’s replacement needs to start now.

“I’m hoping, when he finally steps down, that he lands a prominent job with the university – I always thought he would be the ideal replacement for DeLoss.”

Good God no, he would be a terrible AD. All of his people-pleasing tendencies are exactly what we do not want in anyone running our Athletics Department.

Kafka -
 
You have an amazing capacity to monologue, seizing on the smallest possible sliver of reference to cue paragraphs of gridiron stereo instructions.
 
But this made it all worthwhile:
 
He is a lot heavier, eating on the sideline during the game.

DeLoss Dodds became UT AD in 1981, 5 years after DKR retired. He hired Mack in 1998. It took DeLoss 17 years to hire a coach that was able to win an MNC at UT. 17 years is a long time.

And for most of those 17 years the culture of athletics on campus was 180 degrees from what it is today — that BTW is part of the genius of Mack Brown.

We are working from a position of strength whenever we go to replace Mack — even if it is after another disaterous season. Kafka, I disagree with the length of the window of opportunity that will be available to hire his replacement. Most of today’s hiring is done through back channeling to begin with, and the groundwork will no doubt already have been laid.

There is still the chance of making the wrong choice — Mike Shula says Hi! — but the risk/reward factor is much more in our favor this time around, whenever that may be.

If we are tired of the coach with the most wins against Stoops, we can move to the 2nd place he is available after all. Do pirates wear burnt orange?

Texas was basically ass-raped by an oppunistic OU defense. 3turnovers for scores is pretty un-heard-of.

IMO, OU wins this game head-up just by virtue of being better and more mature. UT needs to man-up, get serious about getting tough.

If we are tired of the coach with the most wins against Stoops, we can move to the 2nd place he is available after all.

He also has the most career losses against OU of any UT coach.

Hey I forgot that it is a tradition. Switzer ran off Royal. Why not let Stoops run off Brown.

srr50 said:

“We are working from a position of strength whenever we go to replace Mack — even if it is after another disaterous season. Kafka, I disagree with the length of the window of opportunity that will be available to hire his replacement. Most of today’s hiring is done through back channeling to begin with, and the groundwork will no doubt already have been laid.”

There are two windows: the time before Mack retires and the time after Mack retires. The time after Mack retires is pretty much fixed: the start time is when Mack retires after the season and the end time is when we need to have a replacement on the job. That is going to be a small window, roughly after the season (say starting in December of that year) and ending before Feb, when the new recruiting class is signed. Who knows what elite candidates are even available in that roughly 2 month window? Much better to have Mack’s replacement signed before Mack retires.

If you are saying that Mack’s replacement will be signed before Mack retires (through back channels), then we are in agreement. If you are saying something else, maybe you can provide more detail.

Scipio Tex said:
“You have an amazing capacity to monologue, seizing on the smallest possible sliver of reference to cue paragraphs of gridiron stereo instructions.
But this made it all worthwhile: He is a lot heavier, eating on the sideline during the game.”

Sorry for not paying too much attention your post and using it as a placeholder to make my argument.

My point is that Mack is past his prime, that he is slipping. I point out that he is eating on the sideline because it is extremely unusual. Getting fat is a sign that his energy level is going down. Coaching an elite program is an extraordinarily physically demanding job, it is hard to maintain the pace as you get older. Espn has reported that Mack doesn’t work the hours that most head coaches work. It is hard to demand that your assistants work their butt off when you don’t lead by example. Mack isn’t going to be coaching for many more years, he is nearing the end of his career at UT. The transition needs to be completely figured out before he retires or is forced out.

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