Realignment: Are There ANY Adults In The Room?

Already new rumors this morning.

West Virginia only, Big 12 to stay at 10 teams

Pete Thamel said on twitter that he confirmed with a league source.

Old, white men in this country have serious ego problems I have decided. The insecurity of Pickens, Hance, Dodds, Boren et al is just ridiculous.

Where they all abused as children? Is this some sort of revenge against all of those school yard bullies who took their lunch money?

If this were a board room filled with mixed demographics for the sole purpose of maximizing the company that is the Big 12 this would have looked much differently. But no…mix in old male entitlement, ego and presto. This is what you get.

A shit sandwich.

At least WVU is coming, one of the best available options.

I am amazed at the idiocy spewing out of Oklahoma, College Station, and yes—even out of Austin from time to time through this whole damned fiasco.

Official Big 12 Release

Newy – seriously? Powerful people, of any gender or ethnicity have egos. Do you think if Robert Johnson had given bazillions to UI he’d just sit quietly on the sidelines? Or if Gene Smith were AD at UT he’d act any different than Deloss? And when you want to start talking about politicians with big egos, you can start in the Oval Office. I don’t remember the voters putting “fix the BCS” in his job jar, but he sure felt compelled to think it was.

If only this were a boardroom filled with mixed demographics none of this realignment stuff would have happened. I bet I would have the LHN by now too…

TCU and West Virginia, is a LONG way down from Notre Dame and BYU.

Roach, it’s a pretty compelling slate, especially as it puts pressure on ND to find a home. I love the play.

When it comes to realignment….

The SEC and ACC are the aggressive CEO conferences

The B1G and the PAC are the risk-averse, mid-level manager conferences

The Big 12 and the Big East are the drunken, assembly line worker conferences.

I think this move increases the likelihood of ND moving their non-football sports. The Big 12 would be an attractive landing spot now, though certainly not the only one. If the Big 12 were to land ND’s non-football sports (and that’s a big if) they would then be the front-runners to incorporate ND’s football if and when they decide to join a conference.

I personally favor a 10 team conference, but with attractive targets still out there, why should the Big 12 not pursue them as long as adding schools promotes long-term stability?

Wait, I thought Beebe was the reason the Big 12 office was incompetent and unable to keep the members in line?

In the case of adding ND’s sports if you are ND why the Big XII? Geography is not compatible and you end up having sports playing during the week do a great deal of traveling compared to closer conferences.

Third tier ownership. That’s the only pitch the Big 12 has over the ACC, imo.

And it’s an excellent pitch, especially since the ACC apparently demanded that ND go all in.

I understand the sentiment, but ND won’t go all in until after it has to, as in, they’ll hold on until the ship is starting to move away from the dock.

I don’t want to be a Pollyanna, but I also understand that Dodds, Neinas, Castiglione, etc, didn’t get their jobs by not being strategic thinkers. So, if there is a strategic play going on, I wonder if:

WVU had to be the first shoe to drop. Now that they are off the table, the Beast is a dead man walking, and the lowest hanging fruit for the SEC is gone as well. Missouri is still in limbo, and that press announcement that never was got pulled for a reason. So why not have Boren, Manchin, and Rockefeller start working over the two Missouri senators, both Dems, to keep Mizzou in the fold and at the same time announce that Louisville is the twelfth team?

That would be a KILLER conference, good in FB, even better in BB. Two divisions – the Texas and Oklahoma schools in one, everybody else in the other. I understand the TV market “eyeballs” argument, but in a direct access world, free of the bonds of cable, what you really want are compelling matchups that produce big national ratings. UT, OU, or OSU v WVU will be a player for a national broadcast every time. KU v UL in BB? Think that is a Sunday national broadcast? Or UT v WVU?

Probably will never happen, but it would be chess when others are playing checkers. And besides, how much fun would it be to see the SEC look for their fourteenth team?

What is the value of those rights for ND without football?

Not being argumentative, but curious. The easy answer is some factor of what ESPN paid for the LHN. How accurate would that number be for ND?

“WVU had to be the first shoe to drop. Now that they are off the table, the Beast is a dead man walking, and the lowest hanging fruit for the SEC is gone as well. Missouri is still in limbo, and that press announcement that never was got pulled for a reason. So why not have Boren, Manchin, and Rockefeller start working over the two Missouri senators, both Dems, to keep Mizzou in the fold and at the same time announce that Louisville is the twelfth team?”

Nvrfrgt63, I was thinking about that, too. Taking WVU off the market simultaneously pulls the best team from the Big East and also keeps it away from the SEC. If Mizzou stays, then that would provide an opportunity to bring in Louisville to round out the Big “fun with math” 12. That should make everyone happy. But I imagine the kittens from Misery will stick their noses up in the air and walk out the door anyway.

I thought what we learned was that many college spokesmen, self-appointed or otherwise, are too stupid to say no comment and raise their concerns privately with the conference because they are unmitigated attention whores.

Now that it’s been called to my attention that “mixed demographics” cures all ills; I realize that, not only the conference, but this melting pot of a nation can be easily fixed.

To any Mountaineer visitors,

Welcome. Never take anything OU president David Boren or OSU benefactor Boone Pickens say seriously and you’ll be better off. They bring shame upon their universities and the conference when they speak. Will this conference switch be celebrated with flame engulfed furniture? Here’s a music selection with your pyromaniacs in mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yXT-4pjvBU

WVU isn’t off the market for the SEC. They were rejected sure, but if the SEC lifted their skirt, the hillbillies would spitshire their tooth and join immediately. Mizzou to the SEC is done but if it weren’t WVU to the SEC would be next.

What are the odds that Notre Dame and all of the Big East’s non-football schools join the Big 12? That would minimize travel costs for all of the Big 12 schools, but especially for West Virginia and Notre Dame.

BigFunny -

Even if we grant your premise, what do you think the odds are that the SEC formally invites West Virginia after the Mountaineers sign the 6-year grant of rights to the Big 12, which they will have to do in order to join the conference?

I’m sure the SEC is eager to have to divide their revenue with a school that they will make zero dollars off of in terms of home games.

Clarification – I meant to say Notre Dame joining the Big 12 for non-football sports.

Kent Hance is one slimy individual. Read Swing your sword for evidence. Really all you have to do is read the emails in the back of the book.

What happened to letting athletic directors run athletics without interference from those who really don’t know anything about sports?

Maroon Carrots,

You do realize that in its current configuration the Big East has 16 basketball teams.

Pull out Pitt, Syracuse, and WVU and that is 13 teams and of that 7 don’t play football at all. Why come to the Big XII when they still have the framework for a very good basketball conference and could easily pick up a school like Temple.

The interesting play would be if Mizzou suddenly had a change of heart. Because then youre at 11 and can essentially force another addition. Louisville or BYU? We know that Mizzou, and the rest (minus UT?) favored returning to 12. They could essentially force that just by staying. Interesting.

I thought the WVU invite was contingent on Missouri leaving for the SEC.

I love this stuff…. and SRR50’s posts, almost as much as I loved the snow cones by the pool at Fort Clark when I was 6.

Well, unless some kind of formal notice of intent to leave has been given, I don’t think Mizzou is legally bound to leave. I’m not saying they’re staying, but if legal wrangling is preventing their exit, what if they just changed their minds?

Guys, Missouri is gone. The freaking SEC already has the press release ready – literally they posted it up already by accident. So try to keep the what if scenarios to something that does not involve staying in the conference.

Two of Notre Dame’s biggest non football sports are lacrosse and hockey. How exactly does that work? Unless they split up into three different conferences the Big 12 would not likely be the landing spot for their other sports.

Newy25 said: October 28th, 2011 at 8:36 am
Old, white men in this country have serious ego problems I have decided.

Very offensive statement.

Two of Notre Dame’s biggest non football sports are lacrosse and hockey. How exactly does that work? Unless they split up into three different conferences the Big 12 would not likely be the landing spot for their other sports.

The BigEast doesn’t have hockey. Notre Dame hockey already competes in the Central Collegiate Hockey Association (CCHA) and would probably continue to do so if other sports switched to Big12.

As far as lacrosse, there are some small leagues such as ECAC, which Ohio State, Michigan, and AirForce among others compete in which I bet would welcome Notre Dame. If nothing else they could follow the football program and go independent. There are several lacrosse independents including John Hopkins, which is one of the premier college lacrosse programs.

The Big 12 isn’t fucking with ND over the fact that they want to remain independent in football as long as they can and that’s why will very likely will come to us for non-football sports, as opposed to the B1G, who has totally alienated them in that regard and the ACC, who has done as much and doesn’t really need them for basketball.

We will welcome them with open arms like royalty as a non-football member with an added dose of 3 football games (UT, OU and a rotator) and our (UT’s) AD’s and Presidents are very close and share a great mutual respect. The Big East is on life support and the football schools they are looking at bring nothing to the table for ND as a non football member. Losing Pitt, Syracuse and WVU in basketball is a big deal! All B1G and current Big East games ND is playing in football are up for grabs right now.

Just take a step back and pretend that there’s a plan in place that very much revolves around the Irish. You might be surprised. It’s a relatively long-term plan, which these days is five years max, but it’s a plan. Think about how going to 12 teams right now might fuck that up for no good reason.

Hance, Boren, and T. Boone got their moment to howl at the TV moon and everyone at HQ yawned and scratched their crotch while they did so. That’s all this was about—-and making McConnell look like his opinion actually mattered when it didn’t. Politics 101.

Those who are gone are gone. Fuck ‘em! We move forward with 10 teams until there’s a reason to do otherwise—-and right now there isn’t one. And OBTW, we’re still competitively stronger than the fucking Pac 12 and just as strong as the B1G. Missouri is fucked and Aggy has been used like a small town slut behind a Piggly Wiggly on a Saturday night.

Jake -

1) Would it be better for Texas if Notre Dame stays independent? An independent Notre Dame could play Texas every year. If Notre Dame were a member of the Big 12 north, Texas might play ND only two out of every four years. Would the same logic apply to keeping BYU independent so that Texas could play them more often?

2) If Notre Dame decides to move non-football sports to the Big 12, how likely are the other seven Big East non-football schools to follow ND to the Big 12? All 8 non-football members of the Big 12 are private Catholic universities – like ND.

3) If the Big East loses its 8 non-football schools, how likely are Louisville, Cincinnati, and UConn to move their non-football sports to the Big 12 and move their football to the Mountain West / Conference USA superconference?

Thanks for sharing :-)

All this seems to indicate to me that Texas is more isolated than I like from those making the plans for the creation of the four super conferences and the playoff system they will own.

All the opinions on various bbs and in Belmont that a conference playoff is bad seems so inconsistent with the overwhelming opinion that a playoff system is so badly needed. That seems to me to another hint that we are out of the critical conversations on realignment.

Maroon: I don’t think the B12 would consider sheltering non-football of the BE orphans or anyone else. It’s ND football that is the benefit. ND could have been linked to those non-football Catholic schools 40 years ago and chose not to.

Nunna: Just to keep you up to date, the Big Ten caused a complete realignment in hockey by organizing its own league beginning in 2013-14. The CCHA will disappear and ND hockey will join Hockey East.

Only a 5 hours drive for me to WVU, at least I can get to a game every other year now.

I think the B12 has recovered nicely from the debacle of the past 2 years.

TCU and WVU are nice adds with recent football success, with more recent success than both Aggie and Missou. Colorado is just terrible and NE hasnt been great for a long time and with the loss of a connection to TX for recruiting I predict they will be mediocre going forward and will have to start recruiting like Wiscy does to be competitive.

Given what the B12 had to work with I say thumbs up to the new B12.

I’m not that sold on a conference championship. Look at this year – the SEC championship could match the winner of LSU-UA against a likely 9-3 USC – who will probably lose to the third best team in the SEC West, snuck by Navy and MSU, and will get hammered by Clemson. Who cares? And more important, who will watch? I’m reminded of the picture of a half empty Alltel Stadium during the ACC championship game.

If there wasn’t cross-divisional play, where there is a 50-50 chance you face someone you might have already beaten, then I might be a little warmer. I just don’t see how it proves anything better than a round robin, comes with a significant downside, and many times isn’t a compelling game to watch.

Big East to take on UCF, SMU, and Houston. Is that enough to make them keep their BCS bid? I think not!

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“All this seems to indicate to me that Texas is more isolated than I like from those making the plans for the creation of the four super conferences and the playoff system they will own.

All the opinions on various bbs and in Belmont that a conference playoff is bad seems so inconsistent with the overwhelming opinion that a playoff system is so badly needed. That seems to me to another hint that we are out of the critical conversations on realignment."
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Flash — Sorry, dude, but you have your facts wrong on basically every count.

1. Super conferences: Both the B1G and Pac-12 are standing pat and have indicated no real desire or urgency to expand.. The Pac-12 could have taken two Top-5 teams from Oklahoma (OU/OSU) a month or two ago, and chose not to. Only the SEC is going over 12 core football members (from to 13 presumably 14). Big 12 conference members are divided on whether to have 10 or 12 schools.

2. Four (super conferences): Even assuming the formation of super conferences, which few [of those having actual power to effect such change] seem to support, where do you get that it will be exactly four? Any authoritative source or link… why not five or six or three?

3. Belmont [sic] says conference playoff is bad: Both DeLoss Dodds and Mack Brown are on record as supporting a playoff system. Below are two links, you can find plenty of others if you care to Google them…
http://sportsfans.org/2011/09/texas-ad-advocates-for-college-football-playoff-wheres-the-media-coverage/
http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/32855-richt-brown-favor-playoff-system

^
Above should read… “Only the SEC is going over 12 core football members (from 13 to presumably 14).”

I forgot ACC is going to 14 teams also. But even at 14 teams, neither the SEC nor ACC would be 16-team super conferences, although they’ll be well positioned to do so if the need arises. I don’t think anyone wants to be the first to trip the (super conference) wire, knowing that it will likely set off a massive [college football] earthquake with unforeseen effects.

There has to be plenty of teams more than happy to hit that trip wire. Pandora’s Box is open.

Maroon

1). They are going to stay indeoendent in the near term any way. But yes, they can play us every year that way, as well as play OU as often as they want, so it’s a plus. And BYU is not a bad OOC most years.

2). I don’t see how that benefits the Big 12 and could make any future expansion more complex. Too much travel as well and the Catholic angle is way over played, IMO.

3). The question is how likely are we to want them to which the answer currently is not likely. They also aren’t going away with additions of the mid-level football programs they are talking to which again, bring nothing to the non-football table to keep ND in place.

UR welcome.

Jake – Thanks

You’re probably right that adding more Big East schools would make future expansion moves too complex. That could be a good reason to not add them. I had imagined that the benefits could be:

1) Travel costs could be reduced. West Virginia could play Notre Dame and the other seven private Catholic universities in all non-football sports instead of the western Big 12 schools. This would eliminate the need for Texas and the other Big 12 members to travel to West Virginia or South Bend to play non-revenue sports. Big 12 basketball could benefit by adding some great programs with a media presence in the New York market.

2) The Big 12 could supplement its football revenues with increased basketball revenues by adding Notre Dame and the seven private Catholic universities. Basketball prestige and revenues could increase even more if the Big East were to dissolve and Louisville, Cincinnati, and Uconn were to shift their basketball to the Big 12. The Big 12 might promise to consider these schools in regards to any future football expansion. The promise wouldn’t even have to be a serious one; it could just be made to give these universities a way to save face and still conference with their natural geographic rivals.

well, way to go, ags-who-hang-around-here. mess it up for us, now, huh?

the sec was all about adding two losers, a bunch of tvs, and possibly some recruiting uptick, but you’ve really raised a question about mizzou being a loser. if we end up stuck with missouri, it’s YOUR STUPID FAULT.

Can’t wait to hear what aggie rick has to say about another valiant come from ahead defeat by the sec aggies.

Poofybevo, your reply is almost devoid of facts. Like my post, it is chock full of wags. I am impressed you can count if given two chances.

Just one question! Right now N/D has an agreement with the Big East that they get to play in one of the Big East Bowl games, don’t know if it is ever year or ever two years. The question is how is that going to work in the Big 12, are you going to give up one of your bowl games? Don’t forget that N/D is not a full member of the Big East just like they will not be a full member of the Big 12.

The company I work for is based in Pittsburgh. Co-worker is a WV grad. I told him I didn’t want to hear about WV grads Chuck Howley, Sam Huff and Jerry West, but to sell me on the intangibles. Below is the response:

Food – WV shares a love of all things bad for you, so much so that they have invented their own special heart attack food – the WV pepperoni roll. It’s an all-purpose football food, invented by West Virginia miner wives for their husbands to take to the WVU games. They’re good for all three meals AND aids in digestion.

Moonshine – this is something you Southerners know well. Well, WV is the shine capitol of the world. Have you seen Morgantown on game day? Liquid gold with only one side effect – an irrational hated for upholstery, primarily couches.

Oliver Luck – starting a new trend in college football, the WVU animal husbandry school has a secret plan to simply birth and GROW their next national championship team. Early results are good, with Luck’s boy a candidate for this year’s Heisman.

Die-hard fans – You won’t believe this, but you ain’t seen nothing yet. These people are crazy. I mean it. Have you seen "The Wonderful Whites of WV?" If you haven’t, Netflix it tonight. The Longhorns should be afraid, very afraid.

TV Coverage – I know, I know. Small market school up in the mountains. But it depends on how you look at it. In one sense , WVU has the greatest coverage on earth. Have you driven through WV? More satellite dishes per square foot than any place on the planet.

@Whatever:

We’ll just assign them Aggy’s spot in the galleryfurniture.com bowl.

Just one question! Right now N/D has an agreement with the Big East that they get to play in one of the Big East Bowl games, don’t know if it is ever year or ever two years. The question is how is that going to work in the Big 12, are you going to give up one of your bowl games? Don’t forget that N/D is not a full member of the Big East just like they will not be a full member of the Big 12.

I imagine that a bowl might get added if ND was a potential participant.

The rumor currently is that the B2 is approaching ND as joining “all in.” The sugar is that ND can keep its independent TV contract and revenue. Thus, ND gets its cake (TV revenue independence) and gets to eat it, too (a conference for its sports).

The original B2 affiliation discussion with ND was “non-football + 6 yearly football games”. Now the argument is: Keep your TV money, add just 2 more games a year, join for football, and you still get 4 games left over for your most critical OOC rivalries. ND would also have input on the 12th addition (if MU leaves as expected).

At any rate, ND will make a decision about whether or not ND will stay in a reconstructed BE this coming January. If they stay, all this is moot. If ND decides the new BE is too diluted, due to the defections of Pitt, Syra, and WVU, then the B1G, ACC, and B2 are all saying “all in.” However, only the B2 is saying “revenue independence.”

January will prove to be interesting. Until then, B2 expansion is now frozen.