Texas-Texas AM Football Post-Mortem: Offense/Special Teams

I don’t like where we are at QB and it’s a potential albatross on a team that’s setting up nicely otherwise for an enjoyable run in 2012-2014.

This is increasingly worrying me, as well. Spent some time on the podcast with Spencer tonight wondering what happens if neither Ash nor McCoy can win the job with promise in the spring, which at this point might not even be an upset? Then, what? We’re left hoping that Brewer can step up, and fast… at which point we’re on the precipice of a vicious cycle, if we’re not in one already.

It’s a serious concern, for the obvious reasons, but also particularly because of what you noted: we appear to be setting up to compete for championships in every other regard.

Speaking of self-pity, I will now return to my week of weeping over the fact that RGIII was not a Longhorn. I hope we win and all, but damn do I love that kid.

Great job on the write ups all season, Scipio. No one does it better.

Is it me being too optimistic or did it look like the O-line and RBs were about to take the game over in the fourth quarter? On consecutive drives, if I recall correctly, we killed ourselves with first down penalties. It felt like we might be able to grind out ten yards in three plays, but we idiotically kept lengthening the distance with those bone-headed five yarders.

Still, I’m ridiculously delighted with the outcome of the game and even the way it unfolded. The Aggies hadn’t come from behind to beat anyone in years as far as I can remember. It looked liked they’d done it Thursday…but, aww, dang, nope. Excuse me while I remove my boot from your spilled intestines. Perfect.

PB – just wanted to say, love those podcasts.

Scip – right on as usual. The O certainly needs to get its running game back; that performance was bullshit. Good news is, soon HarsinWhite gets a full offseason to install a quick game and maybe we stop playing chess with checker pieces. I’m probably not as worried as I should be.

Roma – “Excuse me while I remove my boot from your spilled intestines”: I think I might’ve said something almost exactly like that to my Aggie cousin on Thanksgiving. What memories.

Our offense is about two talented running backs away from being, in actuality, an anti-offense.

As it is, it is just a fluffer for our defense between games.

Anyone else notice that Case is named sole starter against Baylor?

If our qb situation continues as you fear, we damn sure better find a punter who can bang it consistently in the 45-50 yard range and come up with 60-70 yarders in the big games. I feel great about our running game and defense in 2013, but without a functional qb we are going to need something else to flip field position to help our defense.

If there is one constant across all Mack Brown teams, it is the 35 yard punt.

I rewatched the Tech game last night simply to picture in my mind what this offense is potentially capable of doing against the Baylor defense. Of course we’ll be sans Fozzy, and that isn’t insignificant. But we will have both Brown and Shipley, and that isn’t insignificant either.

Ash should figure into the game plan more heavily than he was against the Ags. His package of plays needs to be a significant feature this week, including his deep balls to whatever WR decides he want to step up his game. However, the run has to be established at that point so the play action will count.

Offense needs to contribute more this week.

Our defense will ultimately win the game for us.

Can McCoy be taught to stand in a clean pocket, and to keep his head up when it collapses like he did on the stork-pinball scramble?

I think of Alabama 2009 as our hope for 2012. Great D, developed OL, Shipley being Julio Jones and bailing out mediocre QB, and Harsin creativity.

Goodwin lacks a football player’s vision of where to cut. I think he missed the hole on the first WR screen. Mike Davis needs to be reminded that football is fun.

Dead on regarding QB play. Although, I’ve thought Case’s arm has looked marginally stronger of late.

Do you think we limited ourselves in order to attempt to avoid the TFL disasters that occurred in the OU (17) and OSU (15) games? I felt A&M’s D was a bad match-up given our inability to overcome negative plays. They sell out for TFL/sacks but expose themselves down field.

Highly doubt that Case even understands the concept of throwing from in the pocket. He’s clearly uncomfortable in the pocket …. period. If he’s allowed to roll out and step into a throw, Case actually throws a decent ball. Problem is that Harsin calls that play like once or twice a game.

It is what it is. Case isn’t going to magically undo years of bad technique and habit. I hope that Shipley at 75%, Onyegbule, and maybe Darius White can get enough separation to create some semblance of a passing threat.

I can’t really imagine a scheme or offensive philosophy in which Case is capable of performing at an adequate level for UT. I don’t think you can tweak the offense to match his skill set, mainly because I don’t think his skill set can be maximized to reach the required level of performance for our offense. I don’t mean that as a knock on the kid personally, and I’m going to pull for whoever takes the snaps come game time. But as PB noted, we could be starting a vicious cycle. It will be interesting to see how the coaches use the remaining practices.

David’s legs are best on unscheduled scrambles from the passing game. He is not a Wild Foz QB.

The rumor is that Dayne Crist is transferring from ND as a graduate student and has a year of eligibility. He is extremely talented. I know he had some turnover issues, but its possible he and kelly never saw eye to eye. It might be worth the risk for a year. I don’t see the future on our roster and a true frosh is never the answer. I’m just sayin…

Kentucky resorted to moving their starting WR to QB and just running the ball the entire game. The guy had over 100 yards rushing and, though, KY only scored 10 points, it was somewhat successful. Far more successful IMO than running half-injured freshman RBs up the middle on 1st and 2nd down and relying on a guy that can’t throw the ball to convert 3rd downs.

Like I said a couple of weeks ago, it’s amazing that we don’t have a QB on campus that can’t even do the bare minimum. I’m not asking for VY or Colt McCoy. Just a guy that can, occasionally, complete a 3rd down pass. Amazing. Just complete a 5 yard pass. That’s it.

When I was attending UT, I blew out my ACL and had reconstructive surgery. Less than two weeks after surgery AND with stitches still in my knee, I played QB for my intramural team. The injury was to my left knee so I wrapped it up as tightly as I possibly could which allowed me to play in the shotgun and plant with my right knee to make the throws. Point being, I’m far from some sort of awesome athlete but I could still throw the ball somewhat accurately under 20 yards.

I know comparing my story to the speed and athleticism of NCAA Division 1 football is an “apple to orange” comparison; however, I just cannot fathom how we can’t complete passes under 20 yards every once in awhile.

To add. It’s to the point now that I pretty much give up when it’s 3rd and more than 4 yards.

Goodwin just doesn’t ever look very explosive to me. Especially for a guy who is literally a world-class track athlete.

Comparing our growth and development at QB, OL, TE, and especially WR this year to what’s happened on the other side of the ball is very scary to me. DL, DB, and even LB have all shown marked improvement as the season progressed and I don’t think you can reasonably say that about any of our positional units on offense. It’s clear that something is still not right. I’m still not willing to buy that we are completely devoid of raw materials among the 40-50 scholarship offensive players currently on our roster.

Goodwin also has a tendency of falling to the ground in the process of making catches.

Would you say the OL at least looks to be progressing from what we’ve seen the last few years?

I appreciated the candid assessment of McCoy’s play, Scipio. The anointing of the boy as tried-and-true QB in the wake of this game, both by MB and on other sites, had me shaking my head. That was a performance that needs to be filed under “even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then.”

But it raises a question that cries for expert analysis. How in the world have we had four—FOUR—QBs in a row (cluster?) pan out to zilch?

“When I was attending UT, I blew out my ACL and had reconstructive surgery. Less than two weeks after surgery AND with stitches still in my knee, I played QB for my intramural team. The injury was to my left knee so I wrapped it up as tightly as I possibly could which allowed me to play in the shotgun and plant with my right knee to make the throws. Point being, I’m far from some sort of awesome athlete but I could still throw the ball somewhat accurately under 20 yards.”

That’s smart. Perhaps Dan Hawkins underestimated the rigors of intramurals.

I am a huge fan of Shipley, but the comparison to Julio Jones is laughable. That guy is a freak of nature. Shipley is a technician. I would love to see some option plays this week. I would not mind to see a few with Ash and Monroe. Could prove to be the big play potential we need

Listen, if Ash or Brewer cant beat out McCoy in 2012 we are in deep shit.

If they can give us average D-1 QB play we could be very good, just that quick. HarsinWhite are really going to earn their money between now and the next season opener on that issue.

And I would offer my kingdom for a credible TE threat.

I think TE and receiving corps in general are fair points to raise wrt QB. I caught some of the Arizona/St Louis game last weekend (ACHO LIBRE!) and Bradford does not look good. There’s obviously no direct QB comparison to be made here, but it is notable to me that someone with proven talent who everyone thinks is still pro-bowl quality looks pretty awful when he doesn’t have a team around him.

Great thoughts. The most disappointing thing to me as the game went on was how vanilla our run game seemed from a schematic standpoint. Obviously we were lacking on the Wild_____ front but we didn’t seem to be doing much with formation, motion or built-in constraint to help out the OL as we’ve done for much of the season. Some of that may have to do with the plays Case can run and it doesn’t absolve the OL for getting straight whipped by average players more often than not, but it seemed like we went into too much of a shell in that regard. Harsin did pull some points out of absolute thin air, though, so all good on that front.

This was a huge, huge win for so many reasons both psychological and practical – the chance to finish 8-4 vs. likely trudging to 6-6 had we lost is a big difference for program momentum and recruiting. The fact that we’re almost certainly 10-2 with a healthy B&B is pretty fucking maddening though. For however long this staff stays together, I hope the lesson of keeping young RBs on a pitch count gets branded into the institutional memory with a searing hot iron.

The QB situation going into 2012 is pretty damn scary, but I want to exhaust every possible option before throwing Brewer to the wolves as a true frosh. I don’t know if there’s a JUCO QB that could significantly upgrade the position (and that we could get in/keep eligible) as a stopgap, but we had damn sure better be doing our due diligence on that front. Dayne Crist seems to have that GG-esque robotic/interception machine thing going, but hopefully we’ll at least kick the tires there as well.

Our black hole at QB makes the OL, TE and WR groups look worse than they are, which is to say awful instead of barely mediocre.

I frequently wonder what Gilbert would have done given another chance.

Regardless, we are clearly screwed at QB in 2012 and our best hope for success is to install multiple running schemes (wildcat, zone read, option) that takes advantage of our weapons in Bergeron, Brown, Monroe and Gray.

Davis and White aren’t going to be any happier next season unless Brewer is a phenom

I just can’t understand why McCoy hasn’t progressed more. His bailing out of the pocket early problems are glaringly obvious. Harsin and Applewhite need to sit him down and show him his repeated early pocket flushes, instruct him, and then go out and drill it over and over.

Additionally, If I’m a receiver on the team, I’m spending hours with whoever is the starting QB that week working on route timing. Not just on the practice field, but over lunch, in the dorms, etc. There is no excuse for not getting a little better every week. I remember hearing about VY writing on a whiteboard during the 2005 two-a-day summer practices, “If you wan’t to win a championship, meet me on the practice field at 7PM”. True commitment to getting better and winning.

I’m also somewhat baffled by the offensive play calling this year. I know some of our injuries and player tendencies have limited the playbook, but when we’re getting stuffed on middle runs every time I think it’s time to try some sweeps. And it couldn’t hurt on 3 and 2 once in awhile to not run it behind center, but to try the deep bomb or really any other play. In a lot of games I’ve felt like we’re still as predictable as in the GD era.

I’ve seen an unfounded rumor internet post that Crist was considering a transfer to UW, but nothing about Texas… where’d that come from?

Just curious…who exactly is going to throw the “deep bomb?” McCoy can’t get it that far, and Ash can’t throw it within eight feet of a receiver. I can certainly understand why Harsin wants to run when the yardage is two yards or less. Or five yards or less. Or ten yards or less.

And also, is the “deep bomb” a longer throw than the “bomb?”

Just wondering!

Seeing Hills in the game on our last drive gave me the same feeling that Barnes gave me when he trotted out out JD Lewis in the waning minutes of our NCAA tourney loss to USC.

I hope the lesson of keeping young RBs on a pitch count gets branded into the institutional memory with a searing hot iron.

Agreed, but I also hope that the lessons of recruiting rationally at RB, QB, TE – nah, fuck it: the whole goddamn offense! – have sunk in. That, and when you have a player – nah, fuck it: THE player – repeatedly throwing off shoes when digging for yardage (twice on the goal line that I recall), you might just need to call in a footgear specialist and get him properly shod.

Case looks uncomfortable in the pocket, and Ash looks uncomfortable on the entire field of play. Not a winning recipe. That said, the WR position has NOT helped out the QB’s in the last 5-6 games at all. Drops, wrong routes, giving up on plays early… just a complete cluster.

I too look at the Grand Canyon-like gulf of difference between the progression of the offense and defense as the season has progressed, and wonder what’s going on. 11 games in, I expected Harsin to at least give us an identity. Maybe if BandB had stayed healthy, we’d have had one, and I can’t fault Harsin for some of the ingredients he’s trying to make this cake out of. But it IS a concern. Meanwhile, Diaz has gotten freshman to play like HEROES, particularly at the CB position, and he’s even managed to nullify or marginalize some of the known deficiencies of players already on the roster.

If we can somehow convince him to stay on another year, it will be THE get of the 2011 offseason.

wonder what’s going on.

In a word, Recruiting. Muschamp did a decent job of recruiting – at least in comparison to GDGD. Diaz has a lot more to work with than Harsin has.

The thing that mystifies me is Ash throwing. Early in the season all we heard was how accurate he was and how good his arm was. The arm is good but he hasn’t been accurate and he makes bad choices. What, if anyone knows, happened there?

nobis, I’m in favor of looking juco as well, but it looks like it won’t happen. The pros: mature ready QB, even if he doesn’t pan out he’s on scholly for only 2 years, will more than likely stick around for his senior year as a backup regardless (a pretty big problem for us in the past). The cons: takes up scholly for a Daje Johnson type guy.

I’ve mentioned his name before, but the only realistic option would be Ryan Mossakowski, a former 4* out of Frisco. Briefly: Good offer sheet from HS (inc Alabama and Oregon), went to UK, fell behind on depth chart due to major shoulder injury sustained in HS, currently tearing it up at NW Miss.

IF neither of McAsh can improve by next year, you’re basically punting away a whole ‘nother season by relying on Brewer in ’12. That’s two lost years in the supposed 3-year window that UT gave the assistants (and I would guess Mack as well). If we’re going “win now” mode by recruiting jucos at other key need positions (OT, DT, DE), why not at QB? I would’ve preferred a look at Mossy over Jalen Overstreet, who may be a fine LB in time but isn’t likely to ever take significant starting QB snaps for UT (and yes, I hope he proves me wrong in a good way).

In any case, great write-up as always, Scip. Don’t mean to ’Cosm derail the thread.

If McCoy has happy feet, why don’t the coaches ever have the kid roll out?

Goodwin has track legs, specifically world class long jump legs. Far too much straight path run and jump training, the wiggle has been trained out of him.

Any rumor anywhere of a juco QB?

Two things to which I don’t see enough attention being paid:

1) Tucker was our LVP until his game winner. His punting was atrocious, and was A&M’s best offense in the 2nd half until that last drive. I doubt their last TD happens if they aren’t moving up 10 yards on every exchange. If not going with the rugby punt, surely Ash or Russ are better?

2) Case has his flaws, particularly his quick exits and weak arm, but unlike any other QB on campus he has confidence and the ability to throw it to an open receiver. I think WR is the bigger issue right now. The Mike Davis degeneration has been remarkable, from #1 HS WR, to promising freshman, to James Kirkendoll clone. We start 2 true freshman, one who is at about half speed, and the other everybody thought we reached for. And Darius White can’t even crack that lineup. Our QB play isn’t very good, but Andrew Luck would be hard pressed to have much success with this group of targets.

David Ash still does not strike me as a prototypical dual threat QB. He is just bigger and stronger than Case. I have yet to see him get to the edge or make a play in space on a run. If that is what we are going for from the position perhaps we should just say screw it and play a WR or DB in designed running plays this weekend? I just have a hard time seeing our defense holding Baylor to 13-17 points. We are going to need to score in the high 20’s at least to be able to win the game.

And of course if we do not get a good showing from a QB while preparing for the Insight.com/Alamo/Holiday Bowl does the staff then reach out to JUCO QB’s? Because you are right…heading into next year we are going to be stacked at every position…except QB. It would be a real shame to waste that without a game manager to care take for the offense.

Any insight into whether Ash is given the option to read and keep/give on his plays? From my seat up in the clouds in the endzone last Thursday if he had kept the ball on his 1st half play to the left he had nothing but green grass ahead of him. Bad read or called give? Later in the game ran same play, kept it and ran into a wall on the LOS.

The only time this staff took up a JuCo ANYTHING, iirc, was an OL we wanted whose grades weren’t up to snuff as a frosh, so they sent him to Blinn. He never amounted to much.

KSU can do it, I think the paperclips used to. Does this staff need to get over its squeamishness or do they just not know how to evaluated JuCo players?

Take one at QB, one at WR, and two on the OL. Yank ships to make room for them.

I have yet to see him get to the edge or make a play in space on a run

He did this a number of times, that 47 yard run vs. T-Tech being one of them, but had at least one or 2 edge runs for first downs vs. OU or OSU (forgot which) on 3rd and medium

Great post, always a treat.

The high wire act we have next year is going to be having the insight and/or patience to not take a bad situation at qb and make it worse. Ash being our primary example, but football is filled with promising qb’s who were thrust in way too soon and then spent the rest of their careers trying to get over the shell shock of that experience. If Brewer and/or Overstreet can come in and make their mark, fine. However, if we throw them in and end up ruining them for their careers with the bad habits they pick up while running for their lives, well then we have turned a 1 year problem into a 3 to 4 year problem (with the possibility of doing it to the next frosh in line). I don’t think there are any good answers, we just have to pray that either Ash or McCoy reinvent themselves over the off season. It just seems mind boggling to me that in a conference loaded with great qbs and receivers (even Baylor!) that UT’s ability to complete a 5-7 yd pass is the equivalent of splitting the atom.

I also agree with an earlier poster that Ash seems more geared to produce on the hoof when it is a broken play rather than one designed for him. On designed plays, he mostly seems to run into the back of the lineman in front of him and fall down.

As for Goodwin, I think the problem is that he is a strider and gets up to speed with long, straight galloping strides. Short steps and stutter steps are just not a part of his speed profile, but I shudder to think what this team would be like if he had not come back and we solely depended on Davis to decide if he wanted to play that day. Unlike QB, I think this becomes a non-issue next year when some of the freshman arrive and we see less “project receivers” and more guys who have actually mastered that seemingly impossible task of catching a ball that is thrown to them.

Will be interesting to see what happens at Baylor. There have been some great surprises this year (DL, DB’s) but I cannot believe we are going into the last game of the season with no idea what we can do at offense. I was at the Baylor/OU game, UT’s defense has their work cut out for them.

Hook ’Em

The game is clearly still moving too fast for Ash. When he makes the right read, his athleticism shines through. When he doesn’t, he looks AWFUL. I also pin half of that on Harsin … why we don’t have even a remote semblance of a dink-and-dunk game is beyond me. Vince and Colt both built confidence through the short passing game … which opened up the middle of the field; which is were they really made their money … run or pass.

Harsin seems intent on skipping past the easy pickings. Or he has been easily duped into believing that the 14-yard out pattern is the only thing worth running with our spastic offense.

Yank ships to make room for them.

Calling Doctor Scriptfixer! Calling Doctor Scriptfixer. Report to A.N. “Mack” Brown’s office, immediately!

Here, fix this script: “Son, you have an opportunity to excel at The University. You have a job to do, which is playing football to the absolute best of your ability, and you are being paid to do that job. You are receiving the equivalent of about $40,000 a year, in scholarship funding, which includes tuition and other fees, books, room and board, access to world-class facilities, teachers, and trainers, travel, tutorial services, and more. I don’t believe you are living up to your end of the bargain, because you just are not doing the best you can. I believe you should look seriously at transferring to another school, one where you can seriously apply yourself to your job. Is that fair? Is that fair?”

Is Brewer enrolling early? That would be his only shot to see the field next year. Have to believe it would be the same for a JUCO, they need time in the system.

Question for the recruitniks.

Were Zabransky and Moore both outliers (c.f. Vince and Colt) from the moment they stepped on campus, or should Harsin be given substantial credit for their development? Is there reason to believe that Harsin has the coaching teaching chops to take on a project at QB and make him Texas Alabama good?

Is Brewer enrolling early?

Last I heard, yes.

The run against Tech? It was a wide open field and he simply took off. Peyton Manning could have picked up 40 yards on that play.

I am talking about being a natural runner..making people miss…forcing the defense to have to account for him. He seems to be athletic enough to take off and run when the play breaks down but that is a far cry from being in a Tim Tebow role for designed runs.

Oreo – I greatly disagree with you about our OL. I think they have made humongous leaps since the first of the year.
Look, if you were the DC for an opposing team, how would you defense against Texas?
Would you be concerned AT ALL about their passing game? Would either of their QB’s strike fear into you for their passing, play audibling or scrambling? Would you fear any of their crippled running backs.? How about their receiving corps – scary?
Would you decide that UT’s only offensive threat would be a weak semblence of a running game and load the hell out of the box and dare UT to pass?
It ain’t rocket science, friend. Mizzou, KSU and, yes, even aggy figured it out and loaded up on us all night and there was hardly a damned thing we could do about it.

Yep, fellow Longhorns, our best offense is our defense – end of story.

And I am SOOO glad GD didnt think RGIII could play QB for us.

Dont want anyone who is both electrifying and very sound with the ball in his hands every down even though we won a national championship with someone like that.

I have every confidence in the offensive staff but its going to take longer than we would like esp. since the security blanket in the run game got frayed a bit.

Our talent on D is vastly superior to out talent on O. Outside of RB there isnt a unit that is better than conference average that side of the ball. Diaz has a lot more to work with.

To the contrary. His wounded duck is perhaps the finest wounded duck in the league — the ne plus ultra of the wounded duck world, than which no wounded duck could be better.

McCoy’s mastery in this area is in fact so profound he can do something no other QB has ever done: He can run a wounded duck.

He manages this by holding the ball very, very loosely, then staggering forward in an ungainly manner reminiscent of a diarrhetic hippo. The effect is that the ball proceeds downfield with the same trajectory, velocity, and angular momentum as if he had thrown it.

McCoy is, in this sense, a dual-threat QB. No defense can possibly know, at the time the ball is snapped, which form of wounded duck a McCoy football will assume.

Louis L’am Jones – LOL, the essence of sarcasm is actually DRIPPING from your comment – well played.

I’d say the primary reason McCoy hasn’t thrown an interception is b/c his throws are so far from accurate that the defender isn’t even in position to make a play on the ball.

It’s the same reason why I don’t hit the ball into a lot of sand traps. I always say that I know my iron game is improving if I start hitting in the greenside bunkers.

FWIW, Ubben has a few comments regarding our QB situation. I’m too stoopid to know how to post the link.

Needless to say, we need some kind of QB miracle this Holiday (Bowl?) Season!

Re jerryw : “The thing that mystifies me is Ash throwing. Early in the season all we heard was how accurate he was and how good his arm was. The arm is good but he hasn’t been accurate and he makes bad choices. What, if anyone knows, happened there?”

I think if we had a healthy Foz, Brown, and Berge through Mizzou and KSt, Ash is still the starter today. Going from 400+ rushing in consecutive games to no credible running threat put him in the mental red zone for keeping it all togther as a freshman.

The obvious way to sidestep the viscious cycle of buring through inexperienced QB’s is to have a healthy and effective rushing attack. We’ve witnessed first hand how shifting to pass to compensate for our hobbled backfield only further limited our ability to run (and total offensive production).

We’ve got the scheme part of it working to our advantage for the first time in a decade, now we need the injury bug to pass. Whether it’s Ash, Case, or Brewer who wins out, I think we’re on track to surpass expectations next year, and have a better pass attack by extension, provided our OL and backfield continue to develop.

I don’t understand why our offense doesn’t install play action bootlegs like the Houston Texans run to perfection. It would allow Case to get out of the pocket that he’s obviously not comfortable in and cuts the field in half to make the reads/progressions easier on the QB? I agree that Shipley looked 70%. How many plays do y’all see him getting against Baylor?

The run against Tech? It was a wide open field and he simply took off. Peyton Manning could have picked up 40 yards on that play.

So was the run against A&M. And Case picked up 25. 47 > 25.

Seriously though Newy dude, if you’re going to make a statement like “WHEN HAS THE ASH EVER HAD A BIG RUN” and you actually mean “WHEN DOES THE ASH EVER HAVE BIG RUNZ THAT I AM NOT GOING TO ARBITRARILY EXCLUDE” you should just disclaim it up front. I’m sorry I wasted our time.

Though I’m not THAT optimistic about McCoy’s future, here’s where there’s hope

First, why we’re where we are now:

1) A great deal of reps were shared in the Spring and Summer of 2011 between 4 QBs. McCoy and Ash will get more in the bowl prep and next spring and summer.

2) With those reps, the QB picture was muddied as was our repertoire with our very young receiving corp. Timing is a big problem.

3) Our spring and summer practices were dedicated to finding a running game. I suspect future practices will be finding our passing game.

4) What we lack in talent at tackle, we lack more in experience at tackle. We fix the tackle position, you’re halfway to fixing the pocket presence of our young QBs.

5) Our receivers are mostly inexperienced and injured. Malcolm Williams was a big loss even with his inconsistency.

Here’s where there’s hope:

1) McCoy looks to be progressing. He’s throwing less wounded ducks.
2) McCoy shows resilience, leadership and seems to make decent pre-snap reads.
3) McCoy is not a pick machine.
4) Ash throws a nice ball and mechanics seem fine. He seems to lack vision and command of offense. Those things can improve.
5) Our o-line has improved and receiving corp has potential. We’ve got Thomas Johnson and Caleb Jones coming in and we have a shot at DGB. We’ve got a beat on a OT juco could start immediately.
6) Jonathan Gray seems like a natural pass catcher and is a threat to house it any time he touches the ball. That can keep safeties back and keep our run-game from getting outnumbered.
7) Big 12 QB turnover – potential losses of Landry Jones, RGIII + Weeden gone.

I think unless Brewer is the second coming, he’s got to redshirt. Whatever recruiting issues we’ve had, not being able to redshirt Chris Simms, John Chiles, Garrett Gilbert, Case McCoy and David Ash have all been bigger issues in the development of our QBs.

Arriviste-

If you read what I wrote you would see that is not what I said. Reading comprehension is hard. I never made the claim that Ash was not capable of running through a wide open hole. I was simply pointing out I have yet to see him make a play on the edge – or get to the corner by outrunning a defender. Something you would typically see a true dual threat type of player make. Or make some sort of play in space like making a defender miss.

Basically nothing about his running ability would scare me as a defensive coordinator.

DeSean Hales ran the wildcat with lots of success at Klein Oak. I recall him getting like 143 yds rushing on 3 carries in one play off game. One of the most elusive runners I have seen in HS is a long time. Don’t understand why he hasn’t been given more opportunities at Texas.

The JUCO route? Ha, that would mean some actual effort, work, evaluation, etc.. would need to be done by Mack’s buddy Brian Davis on the transfer guidelines…so yeah, good luck on that. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Davis has always told Mack “it’s not worth the trouble, let’s stay away from those kids, they never stay qualified” just so he doesnt have to get off his fat ass. And shame on Mack for putting that much trust in a fucking baffoon like that…

Ash threw an absolutely perfect deep pass to Davis against KSU. Problems: Davis was clearly being interfered with, and he couldn’t/wouldn’t fight through the grabbiness to haul it in (which is what you would have seen from guys like Julio Jones and AJ Green, even as freshmen).

I believe it was against Mizzou that Ash threw a fine little WR screen pass to D White, which hit him in the hands and of course was dropped.

McCoy has also suffered from dropsies from the receivers. Fortunately for him, deflections have dropped harmlessly, whereas a couple of Ash’s deflections have gone straight to DBs/LBs, in addition to the ones he threw directly to DBs/LBs who didn’t have the decency to volleyball-set them for our receivers, a la McCoy-to-Davis against UCLA.

I can’t fathom this idea that Ash is shaky now and therefore will never ever be any good at all at Texas. The only thing I can come up with is how spoiled rotten we were under Applewhite/Simms/Young/McCoy, and conveniently leaving out the periods of awfulness each of those QBs suffered through (and utterly blotting out the Chance Mock experience).

I think any offense would struggle if they lost the 4 best weapons they had on the field. It cannot be stated enough how injuries on offense derailed its progress. Shipley, Berg, Brown, Fozzy. that was our offensive. Before they all four went down, the offense was really starting to click. It found an identity. I have no doubts without all those injuries we end up 10-2 and ranked in the top 10-15 at the end of the regular season.

That being said, I think our coordinators have not stepped up in light of the injuries. There is almost no short passing game to let the QB’s settle in and build confidence, and for all of GD short comings that was one area he seemed to excel in.

I hope next season Grey can step into the same role Fozzy played, and if BBS stay healthy, this offense could pick up where it left off before they all went down. We should be stout even with below average QB play.

Newy25:
“I have yet to see Ash make a play on the edge – or get to the corner by outrunning a defender. Something you would typically see a true dual threat type of player make. Or make some sort of play in space like making a defender miss. Basically nothing about his running ability would scare me as a defensive coordinator.”

All true, Ash is not a dual purpose QB but he is far superior to Case as a runner. Ash is bigger, stronger, faster, a more powerful runner, more durable, and is less likely to fumble. For the last game of the season, Mack may be willing to take QB injury risks that were not prudent earlier in the season. Forcing the defense to account for the QB as a runner helps the rest of the run attack. Ash might have success running the option vs Baylor but you wouldn’t even try running the option with Case.

I expect to see a lot of wild horn vs Baylor with Ash at WR (mostly blocking). On those rare occasions when the horns pass, Ash can do the honors.

On those rare occasions when the horns pass from the wild horn, Ash can do the honors.

Jerry, I thought that the coordinators did have a short passing game set up for Ash in the KSU game. He completed some early passes and then, sadly, ran off the tracks. His last few passes were mysterious due to his execution rather than due to scheme as far as I could tell.

I also believe I’ve seen knowledgeable posters here note that the short passing game is not great when the entire defense is in the short area awaiting to pounce on the run. My understanding is that intermediate and long passes are needed to stretch the defense away from the line to enable running and short passing. Maybe I’m wrong about that.

Reading comprehension is hard. I never made the claim that Ash was not capable of running through a wide open hole. I was simply pointing out I have yet to see him make a play on the edge – or get to the corner by outrunning a defender.

Right my friend, reading comprehension is not hard…which is why you should investigate conjunctions, that is if you’re not being purposefully revisionist:

“I have yet to see him get to the edge or make a play in space on a run”

Well, he’s definitely done the latter, which is why you’re now backtracking to claim that you only meant the former – he had run for first downs along the sidelines, if that’s what you mean. But I assume you’re going to revise your way into it meaning a Michael Vick 90 yard sideline scamper so I’m going to be S.O.L…no?

TLong,

That’s the rumor, but I think Texas should give him a look. He’s a great athlete, can run, has a live arm, and is somewhat experienced. He’s had the unfortunate issue of season ending injuries and severe case of fumblitis in his limited snaps this season. Could the latter be attributed to Kelly? Texas should take a flyer on him for a year and see how it works out. He would be here for the spring as a grown up 23 year old. What other options do we have? There is no way we can win consistently next year with our current QB situation.

Speaking of long passes – did any of you notce that butterfly that Case tried to throw 30 yds. downfield? A QB with just decent arm strength could have made that throw and it was 6 points. OH well, we won the game anyway.

You know, RGIII has already graduated and has another year of eligibility left. Just sayin.

he doesnt have to get off his fat ass. And shame on Mack

Ballrific, quit pulling your punches, and tell us what you really think. You’re not by any chance a CFO in Bellmont?

Ground Hog said: There is no way we can win consistently next year with our current QB situation.

Agreed. Howsomever: “Current situation” – to me – does not necessarily mean the same as “permanent situation”, whether that means someone new steps in or one (or both) of the incumbents steps up and gets past their respective short-comings… and while I’m not of a mind to COUNT on that happening, I don’t think it’s impossible, do you?

I’m not sure I want to see another 4-quarterback spring, but it seems prudent to at least investigate taking a mature and properly-qualified transfer from JuCo, GradSchool, or even internal (if one of the ATHletes pans out and will try). I know everyone wants Y2K at DB next season, but he sure looked good running in HS, and Onyegbule wasn’t too shabby either – yeah, yeah, Onye threw a pick toward Davis, so did everyone else, although the one McCoy Minor threw at UCLA was handed to Davis by the DB. Internal’s possible, even if unlikely.

You know, RGIII has already graduated and has another year of eligibility left. Just sayin.

I was looking at that back at the start of the season. I would file that under FUCKING AWESOME if it happened.

But think how much sweeter it would be if he were in the same situation… but at agy. Servers would fry, cable and fiber optic lines would melt and run like… uh, no, not going there.

Completely agree with your take here, Scipio.

I would beg to differ with the concept that we can’t win consistently next year with our current QB situation. If by consistently you mean win the MNC, OK, I’d agree we are unlikely to be lucky enough to charter an undefeated course without better QB play. But if consistently means winning more than losing, even narrowed down to conference play, then I think we are already there so long as we remain healthy and Gray or someone else steps up in the Wildcat. If our OL improves and gains depth next year and our RBs are healthy, then I think we would have a decent shot in all of our games. The conference isn’t going to be top heavy if OU sends Jones to the NFL and outside of KSU and OU (not sure about TCU or WVU), none of the defenses are likely to be any more proficient in stopping the run than they are this year. Obviously, I am not advocating that approach, but I think we could field a credible team with less than average QB play.

The aggy defensive line is not “average”. They are above average for this conference, and probably second only to our own. They are second in rushing defense per game, second in rushing yards per carry, and they lead the NATION in sacks. The fact that they have a bad pass defense obviously doesn’t fall on the defensive line. In fact, it speaks to just how bad their defensive backs are.

I’m pretty satisfied with how well our OL did given their youth.

we were likely looking at a 10 win season this year had our coaches done a better job handling brown and bergeron’s carries against kansas and tech, so i’d have to disagree with any notion that we can’t consistently win with our qb play as is.

obviously better qb play is better. and better qb play should be expected next year with all the additional practice and growth time between now and next year.

sessamoid, leading the nation in sacks makes your run defense look better than it actually is(the sack yardage counts as rushing yardage), so those numbers may be misleading.

Why haven’t we, at least, prepared Mykkele Thompson for the wild fozzy? For that matter, why haven’t we prepared him to just play QB? Have any of you seen his HS videos as a QB?

Skinny he may be but I understand he runs a 4.3 40 and I have seen him pass – he can chunk it!

Snide, my guess is that looking ahead we are in more need of a safeties than we are in need of package RBs.

Consistently means contending for the CC which we did not do this year or last and avoid getting beat by 40+ by our biggest rival. Guys, Thompson and Onyegbule are not the answers for full time QB. Come on. Maybe I’m missing something but our current QB’s showed me very little to get excited about.

10 win season, Timmy? We also could have 2 less wins as we were very fortunate against BYU and Aggy. I think it evened out.

if we don’t have brown run 30 times in 3 quarters against kansas(when he hadn’t come close to handling that kind of load before) and then do the same thing to bergeron when he was obviously tiring at the end of the game, we likely win the missouri and kansas state games based on how those games played out. so yes, that means we likely win 10 games this year with those guys healthy(and as a bonus, fozzy is probably still healthy when you consider that he got hurt running the ball on a play that wouldn’t have been called for him if either of the other guys had been playing).

it’s really dumb to say that because of that, you want to take away wins that were earned and say it evens out. i am absolutely against the retarded notion that we were “fortunate” to win the byu and a&m games. we weren’t fortunate at all, we earned those wins. maybe the a&m win was due to special teams and defense, but that still counts all the same.

my whole point in saying that we likely would have been a 10 win team had we done a better job keeping our running backs healthy is that with the way our defense and healthy running game have played, our present quarterback play is enough for us to be that caliber of team. anyone who thinks we have no shot at winning 10+ games in the near future because of our qb play basically is just dumb. obviously, having better qb play is preferred and makes the potential of the team much higher but good qb play isn’t actually necessary.

Ash’s problems are fixable so let’s not abandon him.

You know what’s dumb is to speculate on a victory because certain players did not play. You are basing our offensive performance and our ability to run the football against two of the worst defenses in division one football. Our offensive performance this season has been downright awful. I guess you missed the OU game too. Our QB’s have continually turned the ball over and we haven’t been able to keep a defense honest all year. Yes, we beat A&M, but if you think we would have a pick 6, a punt return set up a fg, and an INT set up another TD propel us in every game then I guess I follow the wrong sport. We were fortunate to win against BYU and A&M. It was unfortunate that we didn’t have our best players against Mizzou and KSU to give us a shot to win those games. Yes, I think things even out based on your talent level.

who says i’m basing anything on the kansas and tech games? we ran the ball pretty well on everyone we played but oklahoma until bergeron got hurt.

again, we earned the a&m win. we played better defensively than they played offensively and we made the big plays on special teams to win the game. nothing fortunate about that.

Serious fantasy land question.

How does it work when speculating a games outcome? Does the other team get to bring back their missing starters or just the Horns? Do all injured players play or just key positions? Does Missouri have Josey the whole game? What about A&M with Gray and Michael? Is Ou playing for a championship with Box on the field?

Just curious how it works.

How does it work when speculating a games outcome?

When speculating on a game’s outcome, using the WayBack Machine, it works any way you want it to work. From the point of view you want to assume. Feel free to change the view to suit your own mileage requirements or desires.

Ballrific-spot on. JUCO + Brian Davis= not getting in.

Does anyone want to look at tOSU freshman QB? He can play

Why haven’t we, at least, prepared Mykkele Thompson for the wild fozzy

Pure speculation: The longhorn’s version of the wildcat is basically a 2-option play, Power run up the middle by Fozzy now Cody or handoff to jet sweeper, mixed in with a few weirdo crazy manhole/parachute plays (reverse/HB Pass/throwback + pass etc).

 Mykkele Thompson, based solely on grainy youtube vids, was more of a traditional Vince Young/Pat White zone read outside runner, so I’m not sure if they want to send him up the gut a la Foswhitt/Cody, and plus I assume in a limited practice time universe, there’s no complimentary package of trickeration plays that goes with it as of now.

Actually, I personal watched Thompson last year – at the Alamo Dome and his own field.
His coaches ran him because he could fucking run. They also had him pass, which he did very well and accurately. He was a high school player in the mode of RGIII.

Now, I’m not saying make him our permanent QB, but the two we have right now are totally inneffective. So, what could it have hurt? Would we have done worse?

We have, arguably, the worst offense in D1 football.

And you are wrong about the wildcat – it is NOT a 2 option package. In addition to the power dive, and the jet sweep, there is the pass and the handoff to the other back.

Also, if we can set up Fozzy as a passer, why do you think it is pure speculation to have Thompson do the same?