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Around SBN: Celtics Seething Over Embarrassing Loss

Handicapping Texas AM's SEC Success

Just about everything that needed to be said about Texas A&M’s departure for the SEC was laid out beautifully in two posts by Taylor T Room. Those posts remind me why I’m glad the Aggies are leaving and have optimism they’re en route to another pratfall.

I am so happy the Aggies are going you’d think the Big 12 was losing Kansas State – a school that actually has a negative effect on Texas’ won-loss total.

But enough of the celebrating. My purpose in plucking the dead horse mallet off the wall and taking aim at this rotting carcass is to address one aspect of the "will the rising tide of the SEC lift all boats, even A&M’s?" line of reasoning. The aspect of which I speak is how have previous schools joining the SEC fared? Previous discussions have centered on Arkansas, with Aggie proponents citing how SEC membership will shift the balance of power for recruiting Texas high school players while skeptics point to Arkansas’ perceived struggles in the SEC. What I haven’t seen discussed much is the plight of South Carolina, which to me is a better control case than Arkansas.

Sure, Arkansas and Texas A&M were conference neighbors in the old SWC. And they both shared the same fertile recruiting grounds. But here’s where South Carolina comes in to play. The Gamecocks share the same recruiting turf with an in-state arch-rival, Clemson. And like the Aggies, the Gamecocks have historically had the short end of the stick. Has 20 years of SEC membership enabled South Carolina to gain ground on its chief in-state rival? Is this a case study that could give the Aggies hope?

Before looking at the numbers, it’s worth noting a few differences. First, the recruiting grounds for these two rivalries are world’s apart. Also, South Carolina hasn’t been conference mates with Clemson since 1970 when the Gamecocks bolted the Atlantic Coast Conference.

So how has South Carolina fared? In a nutshell, the program has improved but it has only gained microscopic ground on Clemson. From a wins and losses perspective there’s not much to see. In the 30 years before joining the SEC, South Carolina won 49.2 percent of its games, going 158-163-10. In the Gamecocks’ 20 years of the SEC, they’ve won 50.2 percent of their games, going 118-117-1.

However, there are a couple of places where progress can be measured. First, the Gamecocks have played a stronger schedule in the SEC than they did in the ACC or as an independent. Also, their bowl performance has jumped from abysmal to average. Before the SEC, they were 0-7 in an array of mid-tier bowls:

1969 Peach Bowl - West Virginia: L 14-3
1975 Champs Sports Bowl - Miami, Ohio: L 20-7
1979 Hall of Fame Bowl - Missouri: L 24-14
1980 Gator Bowl – Pittsburgh: L 37-9
1984 Gator Bowl - Oklahoma State: L 21-14
1987 Gator Bowl – LSU: L 30-13
1988 Liberty Bowl – Indiana: L 34-10

Contrast that performance with their 4-4 bowl record in the last 20 years:

1994 Carquest Bowl - West Virginia: W 24-21
2000 Outback Bowl - Ohio State: W 24-7
2001 Outback Bowl - Ohio State: W 31-28
2005 Independence Bowl - Missouri: L 38-31
2006 Liberty Bowl - Houston: W 44-36
2008 Outback Bowl - Iowa: L 31-10
2009 BBVA Compass Bowl - Connecticut: L 20-7
2010 Chick Fil A Bowl - Florida State: L 26-17

The Gamecocks also played another post-season game in 2010, losing the SEC championship to eventual national champion Auburn 56-17.

But what about the head-to-head against Clemson?

Despite South Caroline hiring a couple of high profile coaches (Lou Holtz, Steve Spurrier), the Gamecocks’ aggregate numbers are . . . well . . . not much different:

Pre-SEC: South Carolina 32 wins, Clemson 53 wins, 4 ties

SEC Era: South Carolina 8 wins, Clemson 12 wins

So after 20 years, all South Carolina has to show is that its winning percentage against Clemson rose from 38.2 to 38.5 percent, a whopping three-tenths of one percent. At this pace, South Carolina will pull even in the series in 766 years, provided my math is good.

However, there is good reason to think that pace is changing, as the Gamecocks have won the last three meetings convincingly: 34-17, 29-7 and 34-13. In some respects, this series is becoming reminiscent of how Spurrier flipped the Georgia-Florida series while coaching the Gators. Prior to the three-game streak, Clemson had won 12 of 17 meetings SEC-era meetings, with the most puzzling stretch coming while Tommy Bowden coached Clemson. Somehow, Bowden had a better record against South Carolina (7-2) than he did against Wake Forest (7-3). Bowden was 5-1 against Holtz, and 2-1 vs. Spurrier.

It has already been discussed here how Arkansas’ national reputation has diminished since joining the SEC. Between 1960 and 1982, the Hogs finished in the AP top 10 11 times, basically every other year. They haven’t had a top 10 finish since then. That may change at the end of the month as Arkansas is currently ranked seventh in two polls and can ensure a top 10 finish by beating Kansas State in the Cotton Bowl. It will be only Arkansas’ fifth season to finish ranked as an SEC member.

So that brings me full circle back to A&M. Most of the positive signs for the two most recent entrants to the SEC have occurred in the last few years, nearly two decades into their membership. If indeed joining the SEC lifts the Texas A&M program past Texas in national stature, the historic pattern suggests it will be a while. Certainly, any movement toward in-state superiority would be preceded by a reversal of current recruiting trends. However, if Clemson, an ag school in the ACC, hasn’t ceded its superiority to an SEC rival, I’m hopeful a regular contender in the Big 12 might similarly maintain its position.

And if Texas and Texas A&M do not renew their series nor meet in a bowl game, here’s how I will measure the Aggies’ progress. If they have five or six games each year with an 11 a.m. CT kickoff and Pam Ward handling play-by-play, they’ll be right where I want them.

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Shouldn’t SC’s winning percentage in the SEC era be 40% instead of 38.5%? (8 of 20) Just nit-picking.

by J.R.69 on Dec 21, 2011 12:19 PM CST reply actions  

It doesn’t matter. They’ll do what all the other bottom feeders in the SEC do. They’ll go 4-8 screaming “SEC SEC SEC” all the way down.

by Ty on Dec 21, 2011 12:22 PM CST reply actions  

Just let it go, Longhorns. Let. It. Go.

by Jagvocate on Dec 21, 2011 12:37 PM CST reply actions  

SC’s win % is 40 since joining the SEC. And your math is not correct. They will never catch up if they are only winning 4 out of 10.

by ut-06 on Dec 21, 2011 12:40 PM CST reply actions  

JR69

You are correct that the SEC-era winning percentage is 40 percent . . . . The 38.5 represents the percentage for the entire series.

One other note regarding South Carolina and Clemson. Gamecocks are currently 9th in the USA Today poll and seemed destined to finish a season ranked for only the sixth time in school history. Four of them have have occurred in the 2000s . . . Clemson, on the other hand, has finished the season ranked 17 times in the last 34 years, and have ended the season ranked five times in the 2000s.

by cirque du salado on Dec 21, 2011 12:41 PM CST reply actions  

Seems to me that hiring Spurrier has done more for SC than joining the SEC. Which points me to the fact that coaching is more important than conference affiliation.

by Monahorns on Dec 21, 2011 12:42 PM CST reply actions  

Great write up, but I do think the Arkansas comparison is apt. I see the Aggies level of success as the same: 8-4 or so with a mid-tier bowl game, and I think that’s the high end of the scale. And I think A&M is isolating itself in recruiting by not participating in the B12. Especially if UT and OU maintain their recruiting levels, A&M will struggle as before. Having no other Texas tie-in other than home games will hurt them IMO.

by Average Fan on Dec 21, 2011 12:57 PM CST reply actions  

yes, but . . .

. . . when south carolina goes coach hunting, does their quiver of love-arrows say targets must ‘get’ south carolina?

by yeh on Dec 21, 2011 1:09 PM CST reply actions  

Mack Brown should learn from March Richt
and payback the fans out of his own pocket
for the past 2 years hahaha

by ShakethatASH on Dec 21, 2011 1:12 PM CST reply actions  

I love the “free-rider” economic rationalization that many Ags are using, usually without knowing. People think that association with a greater entity will raise their own entity from day one without effort or contribution, which in itself is an acknowledgement of imbalance in the trade. Personally I love that. Ags are admitting that they don’t elevate the SEC.

What most don’t really think about (which in oversimplification is common sense) is that free-riding places a burden of inefficiency on the system as a whole. Which almost always results in short term downward shifts in output. How this will translate to the SEC will be entertaining to see. The key metrics in this little equation appear to be Reputation/Credibility and overall success. I wonder if we will see an actual free-rider effect on the SEC over the next few years?

Honestly, I doubt it because the free-rider mentality is comes more from the fans than that ADs…. but maybe some other people around he have better insight into that. Interesting for a nerd like me.

by bHero on Dec 21, 2011 1:19 PM CST reply actions  

The Aggies are trying to justify their penis-envy decision making process with highly dubious inferences that hanging out with attractive people will somehow make them attractive.

How about this: recruits don’t want to play in College Station; it’s weird and they don’t have cheerleaders. They also don’t want to play for a school that has been midrange at best for the majority of its long existence. They also don’t want to play for a school that has gotten trounced badly in recent history. They also don’t want to play for a school that has a new coach and plenty of uncertainty.

Time to wallow in that self loathing again.

by tackchevy on Dec 21, 2011 1:20 PM CST reply actions  

I still think that most recruits on the offensive side of the ball will not want to play in the SEC unless it is for a possible contender (Bama, LSU, FLA)….there is no fun getting beat up and having your numbers suffer when you could play in the wide open Big 12 or PAC…

by UTLawgrad on Dec 21, 2011 1:26 PM CST reply actions  

I agree with Average Fan that the Arky comparison is still germane. It seems somehow axiomatic that the ceiling would be higher with a (pecking order-adjusted) sample of recruits from within a 250-mile radius of College Station than from within a 250-mile radius of Columbia, S.C.

In any event, good thought exercise, CdS.

by Dmitri Kissov on Dec 21, 2011 1:40 PM CST reply actions  

It all has to do with hiring an excellent coach, which is generally a crap shoot unless they can get a coach like Meyer, Saban or Spurrier who has been out of college football a couple of years and wants to get back into the SEC at the same moment A&M has a job opening. When that happens, A&M will start having excellent seasons.

by Nevets on Dec 21, 2011 1:44 PM CST reply actions  

TAMU is abundantly handicapped by their aggiedom. The SEC likely cannot assuage that deficiency.

by Saul on Dec 21, 2011 2:10 PM CST reply actions  

back in the sixties, i believe it was, a sharp attorney in abilene had a proposition for the residents of several blocks of one of the even less-affluent parts of town. he put forth that they would break away from abilene and incorporate a tiny town within the city limits of the larger entity for the purpose of voting to go ‘wet’. at that time, thirsty abilenians had to drive a ways to get the various products to slake their thirst, and towns in several directions like stamford did a booming trade, while the highway dept had its hands full keeping those roads in good repair.

the lawyer said they would pack the little town with package stores and warehouses and everyone would see a change in lifestyle. including and especially him.

so they did. abilene fought it furiously, but the courts held that the former citizens were within their rights, and before the inks of incorporation were thoroughly set, they were opening the doors of the stores that i think they had already chanced to build.

came the crux moment for ablilene, and the lawyer knew it was coming. with no way to stop the little town, abilene either had to watch those people becoming wealthy or . . . completely stuff them and ruin them financially by making the whole town of abilene wet. the lawyer and the people bet with their futures that abilene would allow them their riches, and they were right.

a&m is facing a similar crux moment. the house they are trying to build in their new stomping grounds isn’t going to weather, as some here are saying. what they have to do to make it work is not dissimilar to what abilene was facing. they have to redefine themselves in ways that leave their carefully husbanded weirdnesses behind. i’d love to see them do that, but do i think they will? hoo nose?

by yeh on Dec 21, 2011 2:11 PM CST reply actions  

interesting story and angle, Yeh.

by Team Dirty Leg on Dec 21, 2011 2:24 PM CST reply actions  

“…and Pam Ward handling play-by-play…”

LOL!

Nothing grates my senses more than hearing her she-male voice trying to force her long round peg in a square hole.

by Zzzizzzy on Dec 21, 2011 2:29 PM CST reply actions  

Do they squeez’em in the south? or is that an east texas tradition

by Mysterious Package on Dec 21, 2011 3:35 PM CST reply actions  

i don’t know if it’s dyspepsia or what, but i envision a day in the future when a&m is popping out ordinary people, and a couple of ag students are chewing the fat and swapping tales of the olden days in c-station:

‘man, i’m glad it’s not still that way around here. there was some weird stuff going on back then.’

‘yeh,’ says his buddy. ‘and, if nothing else, between us, ut, and a couple of others, there’s some mighty good college football being played in this state these days.’

by yeh on Dec 21, 2011 3:53 PM CST reply actions  

Regarding the squeezing tradition, I have made this offer in writing to Lee Corso . . . . “If Texas A&M is ever in a game featured on ESPN’s Gameday . . . and you decide to pick the Aggies to win . . .Instead of putting on a collie head, just stand up and grab your nuts.”

I don’t know how he could possibly turn down $75 . . .but if anybody else wants to kick in, I’m sure he’d listen.

by cirque du salado on Dec 21, 2011 4:00 PM CST reply actions  

Problem for ATM was they have always had to compete with Texas, OU and LSU for the players they want.

Now they get to compete with Texas, OU, LSU, Florida, Bama, UGA, Tennessee and Arkansas.

I dont think that is going to work out so well for them at all. And as far as getting back at mean ol’ Texas for all those perceived slights, that aint gonna work out so well either, starting in about 2013 when we start competing for big prizes again.

by bullzak on Dec 21, 2011 4:01 PM CST reply actions  

“People think that association with a greater entity will raise their own entity from day one without effort or contribution”

The problem is, this has been a reality for A&M for the last 100 years, and they just walked away from that greater entity.

by Horncasting on Dec 21, 2011 4:03 PM CST reply actions  

I’m an Aggie posting here to vent my frustrations. I’ve screamed to all that would listen within my A&M circles, but have lost the war. I am part of the minority (or silent majority) of A&M alumni that believes that our pending move to the SEC is a very bad idea.

It’s not that I fear the SEC competition. In fact, I don’t handicap our chances for long term on-field success any different in the SEC than I did in the Big 12. No doubt, the SEC presently appears to have better overall competition. But the Big 12 is certainly one of the power conferences and has provided us plenty of challenging opponents in the past. Regardless, conference pecking order seems to be cyclical, with all of the majors enjoying periods on the mountain top. Bottom line – any of the major conferences provide an adequate venue for allowing a program to succeed.

I’m also skeptical that there is a pot of gold buried in the TV contracts – at least one that is large enough to overcome the added expense that geography will bring. Our annual athletic budget is in the neighborhood of $100 million. I don’t believe that will meaningfully change (up or down) by trading Big 12 TV dollars for SEC TV dollars. At the risk of sounding disconnected, a million here or there isn’t real money in the grand scheme of this thing.

I also don’t believe that the perceived instability of the Big 12 was an issue for A&M. I share the opinion that, wrongfully, the Big 12 exists at the whim of UT. If the Longhorns jump ship, the Big 12 goes away. But a dissolving Big 12 isn’t a threat to A&M in the same way that it would be to Kansas State, Iowa State or even Tech and Baylor. A&M would always have options to land with the big boys, either on its own merits or in tandem with UT.
 
Plain and simple, I believe that the move to the SEC was motivated by a desire to distance from UT and the perception that A&M plays in its rather large shadow. First, I hate the idea of this on its face. Running away from the challenge goes against everything that I believe that intercollegiate athletics should stand for. This is akin to Michigan State joining the ACC to distance from Michigan – it’s absurd. Second, I don’t think it will work. UT is still going to be in Austin and A&M is still going to be in College Station. We will still compete for students and dollars in exactly the same ways we always have. I don’t believe that athletically aligning ourselves with a group of schools from the Southeast will change anything of substance.

But what I am most upset about is the tremendous risk that I believe this decision poses for our programs over the long term. The success of a college athletic program ultimately depends on the support of its fans. A&M fans, by and large, live in Texas. And Texas, by and large, is catered to by the Big 12. That’s the reason why UT is so adamant on holding the conference together. TV exposure and other marketing promotions of the Big 12 are, first and foremost, targeted at Texas audiences. That will simply not be the case in the SEC. My fear is that, over time, A&M’s exposure in the markets where its alumni live and its recruits reside will deteriorate. And that will lead this 100 Year Decision to be a 100 Year Sentence to mediocrity.

by Dazed and Confused on Dec 21, 2011 4:06 PM CST reply actions  

The Aggies are destined for mediocrity whether they reside in the SWC, the Big 12, or the SEC. College Station and the Aggie culture comes along for the ride with every move.

by beowulf on Dec 21, 2011 4:12 PM CST reply actions  

And that lawyer’s name was Mitch Cumstein.

by Texan in Oregon on Dec 21, 2011 4:19 PM CST reply actions  

Dazed – the big question I have for Aggies during this whole process is, why has there been no backlash by the alumni for the A&M AD turning down the joint network? I can’t imagine most Aggies would be against more exposure for their athletes and the ability to watch more events. And the $7-$10 million per year wouldn’t have hurt either.

Is it because the conference move provided a good cover for missing on the network?

by Horncasting on Dec 21, 2011 4:23 PM CST reply actions  

Horncasting – Someone can correct me on the timeline here, but I don’t think A&M really “missed” on the joint network when you look at it from a rational decision-making point of view. As I understand it, Dodds went to A&M about the network when it was still expected to be a net money loser, and with the A&M Athletic Department already deep in the red, they couldn’t afford to spend more money on non-revenue sports – and certainly would have had trouble justifying the up-front costs.

Again, maybe I am wrong on the timeline, but that is my understanding.

by WanderingHorn on Dec 21, 2011 4:31 PM CST reply actions  

I like the mention of free-riding.

ATM will be used to doing that because that is all they did in the Big XII. How else do you explain a potential Top 25 program expecting to leverage a perennial sub-.500 record into equality with Texas and OU? They should have excelled in the Big XII.

The Big XII would have been in much less peril had ATM even lived up to a small piece of its potential over the years. That irony seems lost on them.

by bullzak on Dec 21, 2011 4:42 PM CST reply actions  

Dazed – Couldn’t agree with you more. Texas A&M had a birds nest on the ground in the big 12. Your school has been hi-jacked by the insanity of your traditions and an inept board of regents. Gene Stallings and Wilson being the two biggest assholes influencing your leadership. The bow tied nerd is simply a puppy dog bowing to the whims of the board.

Aggies like you exist, but the reason you are in the minority is because you didn’t buy into the brainwashing crap that is fed to all incoming freshmen.

You are to be commended.

by Snide Aside on Dec 21, 2011 4:53 PM CST reply actions  

In my opinion, here is what A&M should do:

1. Instead of firing your FB coach, the state legislature should step in and dismiss the entire BOR. Clean house from top to bottom and get rid of the rot.
2. Replace the BOR with clear thinking, responsible adults and crush the “good old boy” perceptions.
3. Begin the laborious process of expunging ridiculous and damaging traditions.
4. Re-focus the school mind think from “UT being the enemy” obsession to obsessing on pride of accomplishment and dedication to stand alone excellence through achievement
5. Brainwash all incoming freshmen your school and academics.
6. Eliminate UT from your fight song and anything else dealing with your school. This is important, you don’t want to be the little brother, quit acting like one.
7. Recruit on the merits of your school and not your coaches or your conference.

by Snide Aside on Dec 21, 2011 5:07 PM CST reply actions  

Agreeing with Dazed’s mention that conference power is cyclical, I believe that not only will the SEC not make aggy better, but aggy (and Mizzou) will make the SEC worse…and hasten the cycle. Soon the landscape will change, and Bama will have to go back to inventing national championships.

by JoeT63 on Dec 21, 2011 5:10 PM CST reply actions  

What Monahorns said. Steve Spurrier was key there.

by lonesome devil on Dec 21, 2011 5:26 PM CST reply actions  

There was a Champs Sports Bowl in 1975?

by Juice on Dec 21, 2011 5:41 PM CST reply actions  

Jeez, hopefully this is the last breakdown of Aggie logic. Pretty soon the Ag trolls are gonna call y’all obsessed.
How ’bout we bring focus on longhorn articles or anything else. Comparing S. Carolina rivals w/state of Texas rivals? How about Florida and Florida State or Montana and Montana State?
We must be either off season or the bowl games must really suck.

by UTRico on Dec 21, 2011 5:54 PM CST reply actions  

Dazed & Confused, I was delighted to hear such a coherent view of the A&M plight from an Aggie. I felt, from the beginning, that the move was a knee-jerk reaction due to the LHN. If not, why sign the new conference contract?

Something strange is going on in College Station, and it ‘feels’ as if there is a powerful backstory going on. I feel for the good Ag’s that I know.

by java on Dec 21, 2011 6:26 PM CST reply actions  

Actually it was not Spurrier that changed South Carolina, it was a snake oil salesman with a lisp. They followed the MSU/Jackie Sherrill plan. USC took a chance on Holtz, who did what he does. He brought in solid classes along with NCAA violations. It is sad, but the truth. Carolina poured money into the program and is blessed with some of the most loyal fans in the country. They sell out every game in a large stadium and are rarely relevant. It is amazing. We can look at Ark and USC and there is one similarity, they both saw the dial move after they gave out expensive contracts to well known coaches. Pretty much proving that going to a conference is not an elixir. It is about winning or bringing in someone who can generate the excitement of recruits and your fanbase

by Codaxx on Dec 21, 2011 6:42 PM CST reply actions  

Wandering – upfront costs yes, but only a long- term net loss when looked at by a very short-sighted pessimistic view of themselves. It comes down to either extremely poor financial modeling or simply being opposed to partnering with “tu”. I’m voting for all of the above . Keep in mind this was during a period of time when A&M was pouring money into their nonrevenue sports.

by Horncasting on Dec 21, 2011 8:37 PM CST reply actions  

I think most of the negativity towards A&M’s move is wishful thinking. A lot of you would like to see A&M fall flat on their face and never be competitive again out of spite, and it impairs your collective judgment. If you honestly think A&M will lose recruits and go 2-6 every year in the SEC, you are not letting your brain do the thinking. I can agree that a big name coach with a big paycheck is what A&M needs to bring success and raise the bar in the short term, but it is time to just sit back and watch the future. A&M is one of the biggest schools in the nation, and it is stepping out of Texas’ shadow REGARDLESS of what any of you think by going to the SEC. Being the only affiliated school in the greatest state in the union will do nothing but help the brand. Do you want to know what I am hopeful of, though? That would be the day when I can actually turn on the TV and root for Texas or Baylor again since they are representatives of Texas. The last few years have done nothing but turn harmless old Aggie jokes into downright hateful rhetoric on the forums, and the feeling is mutual. I can’t believe how trashy people can be. We don’t talk like that to each other in person, and most Longhorns and Bears, even Red Raiders I know are good people, yet in the secrecy of the internet, some of those same people brood hate. Sigh.

by Paul on Dec 21, 2011 8:43 PM CST reply actions  

Paul, you need to tune in to Sirius XM Channel and listen to the Paul Finebaum show each afternoon. You have no idea how much hate there is in the SEC. Anyhing we say or feel toward Aggy and/or Baylor and vice versa pales. Yes I believe A&M will lose recruits but I haven’t seen that many people predicting 2-6 every year on this or anyother thread. But Aggy has dug themselves a competitive hole and it will take some time for them to crawl out of it. Do you expect any of us to be sad about that? And are you suggesting the hatred wasn’t or hasn’t been mutual before the internet? If so, you must be pretty young or din’t understand the dynamics of how the internet has increased communication of every kind or both.

As for: “That would be the day when I can actually turn on the TV and root for Texas or Baylor again since they are representatives of Texas.” If you can’t already do that now why not? Sigh indeed!

by Jake Lonergan on Dec 21, 2011 9:13 PM CST reply actions  

That would be Channel 91.

by Jake Lonergan on Dec 21, 2011 9:14 PM CST reply actions  

A&M is going for a niche market. Cant blame them given that they went toe to toe with Texas and OU. They really offered nothing better in that respect. They will in turn give up on some real good in state talent but will cater to those that want the SEC experience. I dont know exactly how many in state studs that will translate with and it may not be successful but it may turn out to be an alternative to the big boys of the Big XII. It cant get any worse for them as it is now. They will lose on the recruits who want to stay here from the beginning thats for sure but there may be a handful who want something different. It prob wont make THAT much a difference but thats what they are going for and thats what they should offer going forward, if they are smart.

by Mysterious Package on Dec 21, 2011 9:58 PM CST reply actions  

I think two Texas A&M posters, D&C and Paul, make terrific points. And I implore my fellow UTers: Play nice, guys.

I’m with the majority — I think the Aggies will struggle. And if — big IF — the LHN was the reason for leaving, then a new braintrust is needed in College Station.

I don’t blame A&M for looking for something new. And if their information, their studies, showed more TV dollars and plenty of reason to think Former Students will fund the program as an SEC member, more power to Texas A&M. I’d rather see Aggie win the SEC West than the Sabanites or the Auburn Tiger$.

I close with four numbers 2 7 2 5 — hyphen between the 7 and the 2. (Sorry, Aggie supporters. Couldn’t resist.) Kick some Tiger and Tide and Gator tail.

by edsp on Dec 21, 2011 10:22 PM CST reply actions  

Snide, you really don’t get it. Maybe number 1 on there needs to happen, but the rest would just be a weak attempt to be like every other school out there. Of course our admin has made mistakes, but damn you’re dense.

I’m proud of our traditions. There are a plethora of reasons people like you didn’t go to A&M. I’m sure one of them being you didn’t like what you saw. I’m glad you didn’t. You have no backbone and probably love the fact that the State of Texas is t-shirt sip fan nation. And you really think Mack Brown doesn’t recruit on his merits? That’s why he’s called a good recruiter. Not because he coaches the horns. He got that job because he can sell ice to an Eskimo.

Dazed and Confused, don’t be a pussy. You don’t have to like the administrations decisions, but it’s pretty weak to come to a horn board and pander to them.

by BigBadHenry on Dec 21, 2011 10:28 PM CST reply actions  

Bigbadhenry –
I believe I DO get it! However, I don’t believe YOU do! You are still spouting the same old tired “i’m proud of our traditions” mumbo jumbo. Your “traditions” are symbolic of your failures and manifestations of your core problems.
 What is it with you brainwashed dudes? Is it A&M against the world? When the rest of the country laughs at you and derides you, do you think it is just they are idiots but you guys (and gals) are really the annointed ones and your way is the right way?

The fact that you are STILL obsessed with UT is an indication of your neurosis. Is that all there is to you and your school – fabricated and only existing to foment hatred of UT?

Podnuh – You exemplify the very thing I was talking about. Until A&M can rid itself of this obsession and guys like you can grow up and create a self identity that has nothing to do with UT, you will always be just UT’s little brother and another little college in the state of Texas.

And you have no one to blame but yourselves!

by Snide Aside on Dec 21, 2011 11:19 PM CST reply actions  

Aggie Brownshirt has arrived to deal with these “2 percenter” renegades.

by Team Dirty Leg on Dec 21, 2011 11:37 PM CST reply actions  

Aggie consistently mistakes disdain for “hate”.

“Scorn and defiance; slight regard, contempt,
And any thing that may not misbecome
The mighty sender, doth he prize you at.”

by BEHorn on Dec 22, 2011 5:26 AM CST reply actions  

Great read.

Good summary Dazed and Confused! I have an aggie friend who thinks like you do, but somewhere along the way most aggies were brainwashed with a pack of lies and promised a pot of gold at the end of rainbow.

As a longhorn fan, I think the move to the SEC is bad for both Texas and A&M. Oh, Texas will continue to be fine, but we lost a rivalry and tradition too. Put dollars aside, This rivalry is steeped in tradition and connects a lot of Texans to one another. Most of all, the rivalry is highlighted by the difference in cultures between the two institutions. College football is great because of the rivalries within the sport. I was at the game in College Station on Turkeyday and let’s not pretend that future meetings with TCU will be more intense and the same goes for Texas A&M. You just don’t show up one day and say, hey these guys are our rivals. However, both teams will be financially ok and it remains to be seen what the SEC brand will do for A&M. My guess is not much. A program’s success is predicated on the money a school pours back into its program and the staff that is in place. A&M has nobody to blame for its horrific hires than itself. The fact is, A&M should experience more onfield success than it has. It is a good academic institution, has a large endowment, is upgrading facilities, sits in a fertile recruiting area, and used to have wonderful leadership (Ray Bowen, Robert Gates). If A&M experiences on field success it will not be because it plays in the SEC instead of the Big 12 it will be because of the two reasons listed above.

Big bad henry,

You say you love your traditions, but its those very traditions you guys have taken a dump on by moving to the SEC. No more sawing varsity’s horns off, bonfire is over, etc. Are you guys going to change your fight song and chants? Will the whataburger in College station be painted orange and white again? What’s the point of the good natured hatred if you don’t play each other anymore? I also find it comical that I can go onto an aggie board and the conversation among the aggie faithful is, who should we make our rivals and maybe it can be Tennessee since we can call them TU. At the end of the day, you guys will be considered outsiders in a conference that has fierce, tradition rich rivalries and you guys know it.

The company line was the following: 1) It’s a 100 year decision. In reality, you guys are trampling on 100 years of tradition. 2) We wanted to go to a conference that treated each member equally and shared revenue equally. In reality, your voting record in the Big 12 says otherwise. Nebraska mastered this line and you guys followed their tired script. 3) Dan Beebe was UT’s puppet. In reality, UT wanted the current AD for ND to be its commish over Beebe. 4) Big bad Texas screwed everyone over with the LHN. In reality, we tried to partner with you guys to pool our third tier content together and you guys rebuffed us. 5) Texas controls the Big 12. In reality, the last time I checked each school has one vote. 6) You can still play each other in OOC games just like SC/Clem, GA/Tech, etc. In reality, why the hell would we play you guys when you guys took a poop in the room and left 100 years of tradition all the while spewing a pack of lies?

Mckinney, Wilson, Stallings, Jim Sharp (Perry’s best friend), etc. hijacked a school by hiring bowtie to push its agenda. It carefully did so over a few years to brainwash its fanbase to make this move. They spoon fed Lopez, Looch, leone, Justice with talking points and kept repeating these points over and over no matter how untrue they were. They also used the governor to push this agenda as there is no way A&M gets away with this move without a threat to cut public funding had someone else been in office. And that idiot who embarrassed himself on a national stage is just as compliant and corrupt as the BOR he appointed.

 It’s nice to hear dazed come on here and speak in a way that is not spouting the company line which is based on lies. That is sign of courage not pussydom. Pussydom is not standing up to small group of people who are treating a public institution as their own possession all the while spewing lies to push an agenda. So enjoy your new tradition of chanting SEC SEC while playing your new cross divisional “rival” missouri. And if you think you will be rivals with LSU, Auburn, and Bama, they already have rivalries steeped in tradition and history. Perhaps by dropping all the traditions that you claim to hold dear, you guys can rediscover your tradition of cheating. You’ll need to in order to be successful with the zoo you are entering. Enjoy and good riddance!

by Groundhog Day on Dec 22, 2011 6:34 AM CST reply actions  

Wow , Groundhog that was a knockout punch. I couldn’t have said it better myself. I am glad you responded to the trolls but the sadest part of this is that they are still on a Longhorn site. I didn’t ever go to a collie site when we were in the same conference and I definitely have no desire to go to one now. The fact that they continue to troll on here shows that they cannot turn loose and move on. Very sad, collies it time to make the jump and go be a nuisance to somebody else.

by BEVOCALHORNS on Dec 22, 2011 10:18 AM CST reply actions  

BigBad Henry sounds like typical Aggie Dumbass.

Groundhog and SnideAside worked his ass over. No need to pile on.

by Capt. Insano on Dec 22, 2011 2:22 PM CST reply actions  

hey agro:

by dasmithjones on Dec 23, 2011 10:33 AM CST reply actions  

Horncasting,

Personally, I would have opted for the joint network. But expecting a backlash for not doing so is a reach. The LHN only has two programs that most care about – men’s basketball and Tier 3 football. Both of those products have alternative delivery methods to reach Aggies – a captive network isn’t the only way to go. And, unless you’re looking at this through heavily orange tinted glass, the jury is still out on whether it’s the best way to go. With the benefit of hindsight, what is now the LHN was a good move based solely on money. But it’s far from clear that it will prove to be a great move in the long run. From perusing Longhorn board’s, I say its no better than 50 / 50 within your own fanbase.

Bullzak,

I agree that A&M has underachieved in the Big 12, but I can’t connect the dots that make this a reason for the Big 12’s instability. The Big 12’s on-field competitiveness has been outstanding over the years despite A&M’s relatively poor performance. I think that the Big 12 is, and has been, unstable because too much power rests in the hands of UT. Whether or not UT abused this power is debated on every fan board on the internet but, frankly, I don’t think it’s relevant. The inequitable balance of power, in and of itself, made the Big 12 less appealing for Missouri, Nebraska and Colorado when other options came along. While I’m sure A&M didn’t care for this as well, I don’t think that was a motivating factor for A&M’s move to the SEC (as I already stated above).

Snide Aside,

Agree that we have lacked in leadership, but you’re way off base on our traditions. You may not like them, which is your right. They certainly don’t appeal to everyone. But lots and lots of folks like them. There’s a long line of students every year that want to join the "insanity" that get turned away. And I seriosly doubt they are a national joke like you think. Candidly, outside of Aggies (who love them) and our rivals (who hate them), I doubt too many people care about our traditions one way or the other.

Paul,

Agree with everything you said except your conclusion that "being the only affiliated school in the greatest state in the union will do nothing but help the brand". That’s the bet, and I hope your right. But, as I stated above, I think there is a very real chance that the opposite occurs.

by Dazed and Confused on Dec 23, 2011 10:43 AM CST reply actions  

D&C, an intellectually honest aggie. Hats off.

by Team Dirty Leg on Dec 23, 2011 10:47 AM CST reply actions  

kind of late to the party, but found this interesting:

hxttp://www.theeagle.com/sports/Game-no-cash-cow—6863085 (remove the x from hxttp)

upshot is the big jerryworld extravaganza isn’t making much money and only arkansas is seeing any recruiting boost, so the piggies want to continue the series and the ags may not fulfill the terms of the contract. suh-prize suh-prize suh-prize. of course, reneging comes with a price tag, but they’ve turned up a rich aggie banker who can cover anything, so anything goes. the banker will just recoup from the deposits and trusts and stuff, so he’s good with it all.

apparently, the ags can’t wait to immerse themselves as thoroughly as possible in the sec sec sec to get that pipeline of kids anxious to see the south up and running, so they don’t like the idea of having a neutral site game with arkansas anyway. the ags do see some need for having a presence in the metroplex, but playing an sec team there might not be a good idea. suh-prize suh-prize suh-prize. my guess is they’ll get jerry to $witch teams and let the ags play one of the golden triangle schools or they’ll establish an away and away series up there. ideally not denton.

by yeh on Dec 27, 2011 8:56 AM CST reply actions  

this might work better:

wxww.theeagle.com/sports/Game-no-cash-cow—6863085 (remove the x)

another thing. you might note that a&m is ready to ditch the j-world groaner but $bill wants to continue it. suh-prize suh-prize suh-prize.

by yeh on Dec 27, 2011 9:14 AM CST reply actions  

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