A&M’s fall down the Big 12 ladder
A&M’s downfall is mystifying. Not in the sense that we don’t understand how it happened. It’s mystifying because no program with that many resources and advantages should be a bottom dweller.
The question is not “why do we suck?,” now it’s “how do we get back?” The biggest obstacle for them is not us, OU, LSU, or even Tech. It’s OSU.
Used to be that when a good player fell through the cracks, A&M was there to catch them. Whatever the reason — grades, discipline, benefits, or the few kids every year that just don’t want to go to either school — those talented misfits were all Aggies.
Look at the two rosters now. OSU is starting players like Dez Bryant, Parrish Cox, and Osi Uminora, all of whom would’ve been Aggies ten years ago. Outside of Jeff Fuller and Michael Goodson, does A&M have any player you’d even want? Even Goodson would’ve been a Cowboy, had they excused him while he whipped this out (you should also account for Richetti Jones, who would’ve been a superstar had he not been crippled or whatever happened to him).
A&M can’t compete with Texas. They used to pluck at least a few guys that OU wanted. Now that model is the OSU blueprint, and the odds of the pendulum swinging back are pretty long. A&M new facilities — the supposed game changer — just look like really nice versions of Austin High’s. Meanwhile OSU is in the middle of building Dubai, Jr.
A&M also has to compete with the TAKS test, something out of state schools don’t need to deal with, and a big reason Dez Bryant is torching people in that awful day-glo orange.
Money, academics, better coaches and a better football team. Had A&M made better choices in the last decade, this could be them. It still can be, but every poor hire they make just puts them one team farther down the rung. Next up: Baylor.
November 18, 2008 at 7:17 am
A&M should schedule Washington State as fast as possible.
November 18, 2008 at 7:23 am
Osi Umenyiora? Pretty sure that guy is non eligible, being an NFL player and all. You probably mean Ugo Chinasa.
November 18, 2008 at 7:44 am
It’s mystifying because no program with that many resources and advantages should be a bottom dweller.
SMU? Of course there was an obvious root cause there. But they have yet to recover. This could take time.
November 18, 2008 at 7:50 am
They have some good young talent at the skill positions on offense, and I don’t doubt that Sherman will be able to find and develop some offensive linemen.
But their defense is [billwalton]horrible.[/billwalton]
November 18, 2008 at 7:52 am
Other than pre-WWII and the glory Fedex days of the late 80s/early 90s when both UT and OU were down, they have always sucked. They are just returning to the norm.
They either need to cheat like a mother or have an absolutely inspired coaching hire to pull them out of their doldrums.
November 18, 2008 at 7:59 am
The problem with A&M is the mindset and the culture in College Station. Instead of hiring an innovative coach that can turn a program around, they decide to hire an old washed up un-innovative blob. They had to hire an insider someone who understands the program and their traditions.
Not only do they hire bad coaches because they are inside men, they don’t give them enough time to win, if they don’t deliver a conference championship in 5 years fire them and hire the next inside man.
While they are reverting to the old ways, UT is winning a National Championship, Oklahoma State is building bigger and better facilities, and Texas Tech is on the cusp of becoming a Power. Texas Tech took a young innovative guy, gave him time to get in “his guys” and put his system to work and now 8 years later they are the #2 team in the Nation. This stuff takes time.
November 18, 2008 at 8:00 am
It would be more appropriate to schedule Washington. Both once proud programs, with a lone MNC, who became bottom dwellers because of poor coaching choices.
November 18, 2008 at 8:04 am
Two bad hires in a row. That is their undoing.
They needed to go out and grab some 40 year old MAN! to rejuvenate the program, but instead got a poor man’s Charlie Weis after it was already apparent that a rich man’s Charlie Weis is not a good idea.
Even with their scoreboard x 2, I can’t celebrate their horrible position. There is not light at the end of the tunnel for them, and I just feel sorry for them. It is weird.
November 18, 2008 at 8:05 am
***The question is not “why do we suck?,” now it’s “how do we get back?”***
I think they should trust Dollar Bill to lead them to The Promised Land.
November 18, 2008 at 8:06 am
Best OSU name ever: Aso Pogi.
November 18, 2008 at 8:18 am
Comparing A&M and Nebraska is interesting. What will be even more interesting is how things pan out in a couple of more years.
NU:
2003 fire Solich after a couple of mediocre seasons (7-7, 9-3)
2004 Hire Callahan, (5-6, 8-4, 9-5, 5-7)
2008 Hire Pilini (7-4 so far)
A&M:
2002 Fire Slocum after a 6-6 season
2003 Hire Fran (4-8, 7-5, 5-6, 9-4, 7-6)
2008 Hire Sherman (4-7 so far)
November 18, 2008 at 9:11 am
Art Briles would have been perfect for them. He’s basically the football version of Billy Gillispie.
November 18, 2008 at 9:14 am
You know Aso Pogi means “handsome dog” in tagalog… seriously.
November 18, 2008 at 10:10 am
nebraska hasnt beaten a team in the top 20 in a long long time
and you’re right about briles
tech will just scoop him up assuming leach leaves at some point
November 18, 2008 at 10:11 am
You know HenryJames means “bed-wetting frotteur” in english…
Many of you, like me, will have to decide over the holidays which topic your aggie friends and relations want to avoid the most- politics or football. Whichever one you bring up is money right now, so plan accordingly.
November 18, 2008 at 10:28 am
osu is gud
November 18, 2008 at 10:40 am
You do realize that OSU is aggie-lite … aggies without all of those “cool” traditions. Sure, every once in awhile they’ll win 7 games and give their batshit psychotic coach a raise. Then they’ll promptly go tits up again, win 3 games the next season while putting 35K fans into a rustbucket piece of shit 50K seat stadium (that they just increased to 60K because, you know, they’re on the rise) and consider their season a success if they can just stay close with OU. If the game’s in Stoolwater, usually they can.
Next time you ask yourself “who’s this rube Pat Jones” on FSN, imagine “0-10-1″ tattooed on his hick forehead.
November 18, 2008 at 10:44 am
Athletes still want to come to A&M. They just dont want to play for Mike Sherman.
Can you blame them?
November 18, 2008 at 10:47 am
I too feel pity. I can’t even talk any trash without feeling like an abusive parent. I dont see a light at the end of the tunnel for them, and it’s their own damn fault.
Maybe if they hired someone not from the Twilight ZOne.
November 18, 2008 at 10:47 am
Oh and OSU has run into a little trouble paying for their “mini-Dubai” or havent you heard?
November 18, 2008 at 12:53 pm
When you’re on the bottom what everyone else does is irrelevant. A&M needs to focus on catching up with the times. There is a fundamental philosophical problem at a&m and I think it has to do with their unwillingnes to change. If you look around, the best programs have passing attacks and bend but don’t break defense. Freshmen are getting more opportunities to play early. Catering to High school coaches is more important than ever to find the diamonds in the rough. It seems the aggies are wishing for the old days of hard nosed running games, stifling defense and picking up the scraps under Texas’ table. That’s what their fans want, It’s what the alumni want. In other words winning is ok but it’s better to win with a running game and a defense with a nickname. Tradition only goes so far and Baylor will have a&m’s number until the powers that be in College station figure it out.
November 18, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Is there going to be a bonfire?
November 18, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Ugo Chinasa. Duh.
“Oh and OSU has run into a little trouble paying for their “mini-Dubai” or havent you heard?”
Yeah, and I think it’s a hilarious sign of the times. However I am confident that unless he dies, Pickens will sink whatever he has to into that program.
November 19, 2008 at 10:34 am
A&M’s fall isn’t nearly as fascinating as OSU’s and Tech’s rise because, frankly, it’s so completely predictable. So A&M had a decade of success–so what? That decade ended (at the very latest) when current recruits were still in the third grade. Aggies speak of “tradition,” but the only football tradition that any recruit has living memory of is defeat and embarassment.
People my age may remember Bucky Richardson, but when you’re talking to a recruit, talking about Bucky Richardson is about as relevant as talking about John David Crow.
So why should a program that hasn’t been good in more than a decade suddenly return to relevance?
As an aside–that’s a great bit of alliteration. Perhaps that should be A&M’s motto for next season: “Return to Relevance.”
Back to my point. They have some money and some decent facilities, but are they that much better than what anybody else in the conference has? Are they even as good? With the possible exception of Baylor, the facilities are a wash (at best) for A&M.
So what else is going to propel a recruit to go to Collie Ville? The cool and hip city surrounding the school? The vibe of racial tolerance? The fact that you’ll play for conference and national championships? The great coaching staff? The recent history of producing first-round draft picks? The notion that you are building a program that could be great during your collegiate career?
No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
There’s simply no reason why a top recruit would go to A&M, which explains why they don’t have any. And there’s likewise simply no reason why a top coach would go to A&M, which also explains why they have Sherman.
The question isn’t “why does A&M suck”. It’s not even “how do they get back”. They real question is “why don’t Tech and OSU suck”.
November 19, 2008 at 11:34 am
A couple of points from the inside:
Agree with OP that A&M, with the facilities, money, etc., shoud be nothing less than an elite program year in and year out.
How do you know the elite programs in basketball? As TaylorTearoom tells us - it’s the program that draws 25,000 for a Wednesday night game against Centenary. The football corrolary is the team that draws 80,000 for Arkansas State. And with my $2,000 donation to the 12th Man Foundation, those seats are worth even that much more.
Money is no problem at A&M - just ask Jackie. Never has been and never will be.
Those who argue A&M is a “hick” school or a bunch of “nut squeezers’ simply have not been to College Station in a while. It lloks pretty much like the suburbs now - pretty much like the same placees all these kids come from.
Is Sherman the right coach? Hell if I know - I wanted Peterson but maybe he would have led us to the same place his mentor is leading Colorado, which is straight to football hell.
I think, in normal years, only two teams in the Big XII South can have the talent to play for the MNC. This year is the anomoly when 3 teams are there.
Frankly, A&M needs to start hacking into someone’s recruiting base, and I think the plan is that it’ll be OU’s. That’s the reasoning behind the Arkansas game at Jerry’s World - D/FW is OU’s hotbed.
I was hoping Tech would win the MNC so someone - ANYONE - would hire Leach away. But I now want OU to go all the way and have Stoops be the sexy name being courted by Notre Dame, etc. - and then have Stoops be smart enough to MOVE ON!
November 19, 2008 at 11:48 am
“Agree with OP that A&M, with the facilities, money, etc., shoud be nothing less than an elite program year in and year out.”
Well let’s not get carried away. They shouldn’t be this shitty, but they also shouldn’t be “an elite program year in and year out”.
November 19, 2008 at 11:55 am
Ag_in_Tx - If Dan Hawkins is leading CU straight to “football hell”, where exactly were they before he got there, and where, pray tell, is A&M in comparison?
I see a win vs OU for CU in his two years there, and a rather jarring beatdown by Baylor to the Aggies.
November 19, 2008 at 12:07 pm
I see two wins over y’all the last two years as well.
There are a number of reasons A&M is not good this year, but like wo many things in football, it comes down to line play. Our OL is just horrible - HORRIBLE. If Mike Sheramn can do one thing, he can develop offensive linemen and develop that into a good unit.
Frankly, I like our skill position players - Cyrus Gray and Jeff Fuller - I would prefer to see JJ at WR and Tommy Dorman at QB - I saw that kid at Birdville and think he fits the WCO to a T. On defense, we need work and more players.
Seriously, we just lost to Baylor last week so I’m not blowing sunshine up anyone’s skirts here - just trying to remain positive and convince myself that my four tickets that cost me $3600 were worth it.
November 19, 2008 at 12:22 pm
I am a glass is half full kind of guy. I think that once Sherman gets the OL sorted out that we will be fine. I expect us to go to a bowl next year and really make a run in ‘10.
November 19, 2008 at 12:29 pm
“…just trying to remain positive and convince myself that my four tickets that cost me $3600 were worth it.”
It’s amazing what some people would rather have than money…
November 19, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Ag–your first mistake is thinking that you should be “an elite program year in and year out” simply because of your facilities and money. Those things are undoubtedly helpful, but they certainly are not sufficient. SMU has every bit as much money as A&M (they had 20 people pony up $50,000 to pay June Jones’s salary), and their facilities are fantastic. But they still suck. Arkansas has great facilities and plenty of moneyied supporters, but they are far from an elite program. Stanford has a new stadium and an enormous endowment, and they’re still Stanford.
And, by the way, compare your facilities to what’s being thrown out there by Texas, Florida, Alabama, Oklahoma, and most every other elite programs. They’re not so great as you’ve been led to believe.
The fact remains, then, that when competing for recruits at the “elite” level to which you aspire, A&M simply doesn’t offer much. It has no winning tradition, either recent or ancient. It doesn’t offer a great collegiate experience outside of football. And its coaches don’t inspire great confidence, so far as I’ve seen.
I’m sorry that you’re spending that kind of money on that program. But you’ve got to ask yourself what basis in fact do you see that would indicate that A&M will get significantly better any time soon.
I see none.
November 19, 2008 at 2:15 pm
You throw several programs out there that not so long ago, A&M was beating on a regular basis (well, you rolled out one we’ve beaten twice in the last two years.
It is interesting the factors you throw out for what attracts “elite” talent. Winning tradition? Great collegiate experience? WTF does that mean?
You know what attracts elite talent? Putting kids in the NFL. Period. The 4 and 5 star kids look at that more than anything.
From a money, size of fan base, location, and facilities standpoint, there is no reason whatsoever that A&M should not be an elite program year in and year out.
Are we there yet? Of course not. But rest assured that A&M will not stop trying until we are.
Enjoy where you are right now.
November 19, 2008 at 2:24 pm
SMU has every bit as much money as A&M (they had 20 people pony up $50,000 to pay June Jones’s salary), and their facilities are fantastic.
Finding 20 alums with $50,000 isn’t that hard for any school, and SMU plays in a 32,000 seat stadium. They’re not in the same league as A&M.
November 19, 2008 at 2:28 pm
“Enjoy where you are right now.”
Haha, yeah, we will. For the most part this is where we’ve been for about 100 years.
November 20, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Uh, no. Do I have to remind you about 66-3?
November 20, 2008 at 2:49 pm
I think given the size and quality of the school,the proximity to excellent recruits, the money, the passion of the alums for football that our return is just a matter of time and the right coaches. Is Sherman the answer? Only time will tell (I’m still unconvinced).
As I recall there was a Mac v.1 and Mac v.2 before the current edition and they weren’t mistaken for DKR. Maybe it takes us 3 changes to find the right formula but to dismiss us as gone and forever forgotten is wishful thinking.
November 20, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Or just pretend it’s the 80’s and cheat your way into contention. Do it for Jackie!
November 21, 2008 at 5:10 am
I like fried okra.
November 21, 2008 at 6:32 am
fire..greg..davis??
November 21, 2008 at 6:43 am
A&M is to the Big 12 what Michigan State is to the Big Ten - except that Michigan State is better.
November 21, 2008 at 7:24 am
“Uh, no. Do I have to remind you about 66-3?”
You can understand the meaning of sentences so much better if you read every word.
November 21, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Bob,
Aso Pogi is Dog Handsome in tagalog. If you meant to say handsome dog, it would be Poging Aso.
Hook’Em