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	<title>Comments on: Let&#8217;s Build An Offense Part 1: Building A Base</title>
	<link>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 22:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: ChrisApplewhite</title>
		<link>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9557</link>
		<author>ChrisApplewhite</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 06:33:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9557</guid>
		<description>If Greg Davis sat and talked to you about his offense, you would probably walk away satisfied that he is a capable playcaller. 

The problem isn't his chalkboard skills, it's that he doesn't understand that defenses won't stand still and line up the way he draws them. He doesn't understand that football isn't played in a vacuum, that if you run one play over and over, no matter how good it is, the defense is going to adjust and stop it. It's not the x's and o's that get him, it's that he calls plays like he's playing a video game.

And some WR is going to step up. We have too many good ones to not have it happen. Malcolm Williams and Brandon Collins are both very good, and should be a factor. We still have Montre Webber, who I really like. He's got natural talent and can get open deep, but is still raw I guess. Buckner and Hales could be factors, and I think Grant is too raw right now. This kid was a DE last year.

Something will happen there but my philosophy is to build around your known quantities and let any freshmen be pleasant surprises. When you rely on them, you're in trouble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Greg Davis sat and talked to you about his offense, you would probably walk away satisfied that he is a capable playcaller. </p>
<p>The problem isn&#8217;t his chalkboard skills, it&#8217;s that he doesn&#8217;t understand that defenses won&#8217;t stand still and line up the way he draws them. He doesn&#8217;t understand that football isn&#8217;t played in a vacuum, that if you run one play over and over, no matter how good it is, the defense is going to adjust and stop it. It&#8217;s not the x&#8217;s and o&#8217;s that get him, it&#8217;s that he calls plays like he&#8217;s playing a video game.</p>
<p>And some WR is going to step up. We have too many good ones to not have it happen. Malcolm Williams and Brandon Collins are both very good, and should be a factor. We still have Montre Webber, who I really like. He&#8217;s got natural talent and can get open deep, but is still raw I guess. Buckner and Hales could be factors, and I think Grant is too raw right now. This kid was a DE last year.</p>
<p>Something will happen there but my philosophy is to build around your known quantities and let any freshmen be pleasant surprises. When you rely on them, you&#8217;re in trouble.</p>
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		<title>By: Kafka</title>
		<link>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9553</link>
		<author>Kafka</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 05:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9553</guid>
		<description>We saw what happened last year when Sweed went down.  You need somebody who can draw a double team or the safety is free to do nasty things like blitz and run support, etc.  On deep balls both colt and chiles will need someone big (like a rebounder) who knows how to fight for 50-50 balls.  It was so painful seeing DBs outfight Shipley for the 50-50 ball.  

For one big WO, you can use Irby (as you already proposed).  for the other side, we have several big WOs (just signed buckman and grant, for example.  BTW, I heard that ESPN reclassified Grant as a 5 star).  My guess is that one of those highly ranked big, young WOs is going to be good enough.  We absolutely need at least one real tall guy who can go deep and win 50-50 balls.  We need to play these guys as much as possible in the blowout games early in the season to see who can deliver.

GD understands football theory fine (I think) and is a student of the game. I do wonder about how well he gets matchups and how well he puts his personnel in a position to succeed (i.e. has them do stuff that they do well).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We saw what happened last year when Sweed went down.  You need somebody who can draw a double team or the safety is free to do nasty things like blitz and run support, etc.  On deep balls both colt and chiles will need someone big (like a rebounder) who knows how to fight for 50-50 balls.  It was so painful seeing DBs outfight Shipley for the 50-50 ball.  </p>
<p>For one big WO, you can use Irby (as you already proposed).  for the other side, we have several big WOs (just signed buckman and grant, for example.  BTW, I heard that ESPN reclassified Grant as a 5 star).  My guess is that one of those highly ranked big, young WOs is going to be good enough.  We absolutely need at least one real tall guy who can go deep and win 50-50 balls.  We need to play these guys as much as possible in the blowout games early in the season to see who can deliver.</p>
<p>GD understands football theory fine (I think) and is a student of the game. I do wonder about how well he gets matchups and how well he puts his personnel in a position to succeed (i.e. has them do stuff that they do well).</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisApplewhite</title>
		<link>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9542</link>
		<author>ChrisApplewhite</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:33:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9542</guid>
		<description>Absolutely, in fact we do run a shotgun counter frequently.

You can pretty much do anything about of any formation if you're creative, it's why I have a disdain for labels like 'the spread' or whatever. You're only defined by what you want to do, nothing else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely, in fact we do run a shotgun counter frequently.</p>
<p>You can pretty much do anything about of any formation if you&#8217;re creative, it&#8217;s why I have a disdain for labels like &#8216;the spread&#8217; or whatever. You&#8217;re only defined by what you want to do, nothing else.</p>
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		<title>By: doog</title>
		<link>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9535</link>
		<author>doog</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 20:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9535</guid>
		<description>Cool.  Can you run traditional counters, traps, etc out of the 'gun?  Or is it more of the VY/Tim Tebow sort of zone reads and QB draws?

I dont know anything about offenses so this is new to me.  I used to just watch and see that the offense either worked or didn't.  Which makes me as qualified as Greg Davis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool.  Can you run traditional counters, traps, etc out of the &#8216;gun?  Or is it more of the VY/Tim Tebow sort of zone reads and QB draws?</p>
<p>I dont know anything about offenses so this is new to me.  I used to just watch and see that the offense either worked or didn&#8217;t.  Which makes me as qualified as Greg Davis.</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisApplewhite</title>
		<link>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9516</link>
		<author>ChrisApplewhite</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:12:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9516</guid>
		<description>doog: Running out of heavier sets is safer, but also less productive. That's really letting the defense off the hook, I think.

I would much rather risk a zone play getting stretched out too far than run out of the I, especially when we don't really have a great FB or TE to help block.

I want to make the defense work on every play. If it's late in the game and we have a lead, continuing to grind yardage is demoralizing. I want to keep it open without risking too much, if possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>doog: Running out of heavier sets is safer, but also less productive. That&#8217;s really letting the defense off the hook, I think.</p>
<p>I would much rather risk a zone play getting stretched out too far than run out of the I, especially when we don&#8217;t really have a great FB or TE to help block.</p>
<p>I want to make the defense work on every play. If it&#8217;s late in the game and we have a lead, continuing to grind yardage is demoralizing. I want to keep it open without risking too much, if possible.</p>
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		<title>By: DrkBgrk</title>
		<link>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9498</link>
		<author>DrkBgrk</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 23:12:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9498</guid>
		<description>sure is nice to see some football being discussed again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sure is nice to see some football being discussed again.</p>
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		<title>By: doog</title>
		<link>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9472</link>
		<author>doog</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 15:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9472</guid>
		<description>Excellent work.  Can't wait for part 2 of the series.
Only question: Being able to run is obviously important in certain situations.  Do you think there is an advantage to running out of the I formation vs running out of the shotgun?

And I mean when trying to run between the tackles.  if its the 4th quarter then running sideline to sideline might be harmful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent work.  Can&#8217;t wait for part 2 of the series.<br />
Only question: Being able to run is obviously important in certain situations.  Do you think there is an advantage to running out of the I formation vs running out of the shotgun?</p>
<p>And I mean when trying to run between the tackles.  if its the 4th quarter then running sideline to sideline might be harmful.</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisApplewhite</title>
		<link>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9456</link>
		<author>ChrisApplewhite</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 04:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9456</guid>
		<description>Well, let me just say that there is nothing that you suggest that I won't or wouldn't consider. Like I said, this is a root that will branch off into other things. I'll have RBs in the slot. I'll motion guys around. We'll run plenty of one back stuff. 

It's just a matter of taking it step by step and really thinking about every little detail as it pertains to this team. For instance, you say you want a big deep threat, but we don't have that right now. We have some freshman who could fill that role, but we don't know yet. 

I'm trying to be very realistic about this, in part because Davis seems to do whatever he wants without considering the players running the offense. If we build the offense around tall WRs who can get downfield, yet we don't have any, where does that leave us? On a team with so few known quantities, we really have to be safe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, let me just say that there is nothing that you suggest that I won&#8217;t or wouldn&#8217;t consider. Like I said, this is a root that will branch off into other things. I&#8217;ll have RBs in the slot. I&#8217;ll motion guys around. We&#8217;ll run plenty of one back stuff. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s just a matter of taking it step by step and really thinking about every little detail as it pertains to this team. For instance, you say you want a big deep threat, but we don&#8217;t have that right now. We have some freshman who could fill that role, but we don&#8217;t know yet. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m trying to be very realistic about this, in part because Davis seems to do whatever he wants without considering the players running the offense. If we build the offense around tall WRs who can get downfield, yet we don&#8217;t have any, where does that leave us? On a team with so few known quantities, we really have to be safe.</p>
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		<title>By: Kafka</title>
		<link>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9453</link>
		<author>Kafka</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 03:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9453</guid>
		<description>It looks like we're proposing quite similar but not identical offenses (and that's OK).

My concept is that I would like to be able for the wideouts to do the following on both the left and right side:
* block LBs
* run screens effectively
* present a big target for quick slants up the middle and catch the ball reliably despite getting hit hard
* get YAC dependably
* win 50-50 balls

To block LBs, present a big target for quick slants up the middle and catch the ball reliably despite getting hit hard, and win 50-50 balls, you need a big guy (the tight end or really big wide receiver part of the two man combo).  

To run explosively and get YAC, you need a running back type.  This guy might also be able to block an LB in space.

My idea is that the best way to meet these requirements is to pair up an explosive RB type  (such as V. McGee) out wide with a big receiver (such as Irby) on each sides.  I don't know who the best personnel choices would be but I'm pretty sure that Texas enough running backs and big wide receivers in the recent classes to put good people on the field to fill these positions.  

The reason these requirements are so important is that you have to expect a drop off in passing skill when you replace a pro style QB with a dual purpose QB, so the offense (and the personnel) has to be changed to accomodate this change.  Specifically the QB needs to  mainly make more short throws (just raise up and throw immediately) that are easy for him to execute.  This means that screens have to actually work.  This means lots of YAC (i.e. RB types who can explode after they catch the ball).  This means that quick slants have to be to guys who are big targets, can catch the ball in traffic, and take a hit (i.e. your traditional tight end or really big wide receiver type type).

When the QB throws long, he needs for the deep receiver to be able to win 50-50 balls (or at least prevent interceptions), this requires a tall jumper who has rebounding skills.  The dual purpose QB will get lots of opportunites to throw deep into single coverage (because the D will have to focus on defending the run and short passing game) but it is likely that the dual purpose QB is going to throw less accurately deeply so the deep receiver is going to have to get up in the air and fight for it.  

Cosby is short and Shipley is not good at fighting for 50-50 balls.  Guys like Shipley (and to a lesser extent, Cosby) are not really ideal for any of these capabilities.  They are optimized for an offense where the patterns take a while to develop and the wide receivers run precise patterns and catch well.  In a spread offense, you have to assume that the passes are going to be shorter (usually) and thrown right away (because you are more vulnerable to a blitz with wider line spacing).  The wide receivers also need to be powerful guys who are excellent blockers to spport the running game.

Texas has not run screens well because they don't have explosive guys running the ball and the wide receivers don't block that great (they block well for wide receivers but your classic wide receiver just does not block that well compared to a tight end type).  If you have big, excellent blocker (the tight end type or a really big wide receiver) blocking for the explosive guy, the screens are going to be much more effective than was the case previously for UT.

Misdirection: 
by having only the QB and the TB in the backfield, you can have a RB/TE (type guys) split out wide on both sides.  This means you can run effective screens to either side of the field (a big plus).  You lose this capability if you put two RBs in the backfield (in addition to the QB).

You should get plenty of misdirection if the TB and QB are moving in opposite directions (QB to the right, TB to the left, for example). That should be enough to freeze the LBs and run support DBs for a second or two. If you need more misdirection, you can put in motion one of the RB type guys that are split out wide.

Offensive Line:
In addition to optimizing the wideouts for the spread formation offense that runs a bunch, you also have to optimize the OL. There is less need to open holes because of the wide spacing in the line and much more need for guys who can get block downfield or block for screens and other short passes.  This requires speed.  The OL needs to get leaner and faster (think DE types) and more athletic to block in space.

Basically what I am proposing is a combination of Urban Meyer does in Florida with Percy Harvin and what Mizzou does with their big tight ends (split out wide) and what USC does splitting out their TBs as wide receivers (and, of course, what Rich Rodriguez did at WV).

Sorry for the long post, the personnel and strategic changes necessary to properly support the spread offense are interesting to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks like we&#8217;re proposing quite similar but not identical offenses (and that&#8217;s OK).</p>
<p>My concept is that I would like to be able for the wideouts to do the following on both the left and right side:<br />
* block LBs<br />
* run screens effectively<br />
* present a big target for quick slants up the middle and catch the ball reliably despite getting hit hard<br />
* get YAC dependably<br />
* win 50-50 balls</p>
<p>To block LBs, present a big target for quick slants up the middle and catch the ball reliably despite getting hit hard, and win 50-50 balls, you need a big guy (the tight end or really big wide receiver part of the two man combo).  </p>
<p>To run explosively and get YAC, you need a running back type.  This guy might also be able to block an LB in space.</p>
<p>My idea is that the best way to meet these requirements is to pair up an explosive RB type  (such as V. McGee) out wide with a big receiver (such as Irby) on each sides.  I don&#8217;t know who the best personnel choices would be but I&#8217;m pretty sure that Texas enough running backs and big wide receivers in the recent classes to put good people on the field to fill these positions.  </p>
<p>The reason these requirements are so important is that you have to expect a drop off in passing skill when you replace a pro style QB with a dual purpose QB, so the offense (and the personnel) has to be changed to accomodate this change.  Specifically the QB needs to  mainly make more short throws (just raise up and throw immediately) that are easy for him to execute.  This means that screens have to actually work.  This means lots of YAC (i.e. RB types who can explode after they catch the ball).  This means that quick slants have to be to guys who are big targets, can catch the ball in traffic, and take a hit (i.e. your traditional tight end or really big wide receiver type type).</p>
<p>When the QB throws long, he needs for the deep receiver to be able to win 50-50 balls (or at least prevent interceptions), this requires a tall jumper who has rebounding skills.  The dual purpose QB will get lots of opportunites to throw deep into single coverage (because the D will have to focus on defending the run and short passing game) but it is likely that the dual purpose QB is going to throw less accurately deeply so the deep receiver is going to have to get up in the air and fight for it.  </p>
<p>Cosby is short and Shipley is not good at fighting for 50-50 balls.  Guys like Shipley (and to a lesser extent, Cosby) are not really ideal for any of these capabilities.  They are optimized for an offense where the patterns take a while to develop and the wide receivers run precise patterns and catch well.  In a spread offense, you have to assume that the passes are going to be shorter (usually) and thrown right away (because you are more vulnerable to a blitz with wider line spacing).  The wide receivers also need to be powerful guys who are excellent blockers to spport the running game.</p>
<p>Texas has not run screens well because they don&#8217;t have explosive guys running the ball and the wide receivers don&#8217;t block that great (they block well for wide receivers but your classic wide receiver just does not block that well compared to a tight end type).  If you have big, excellent blocker (the tight end type or a really big wide receiver) blocking for the explosive guy, the screens are going to be much more effective than was the case previously for UT.</p>
<p>Misdirection:<br />
by having only the QB and the TB in the backfield, you can have a RB/TE (type guys) split out wide on both sides.  This means you can run effective screens to either side of the field (a big plus).  You lose this capability if you put two RBs in the backfield (in addition to the QB).</p>
<p>You should get plenty of misdirection if the TB and QB are moving in opposite directions (QB to the right, TB to the left, for example). That should be enough to freeze the LBs and run support DBs for a second or two. If you need more misdirection, you can put in motion one of the RB type guys that are split out wide.</p>
<p>Offensive Line:<br />
In addition to optimizing the wideouts for the spread formation offense that runs a bunch, you also have to optimize the OL. There is less need to open holes because of the wide spacing in the line and much more need for guys who can get block downfield or block for screens and other short passes.  This requires speed.  The OL needs to get leaner and faster (think DE types) and more athletic to block in space.</p>
<p>Basically what I am proposing is a combination of Urban Meyer does in Florida with Percy Harvin and what Mizzou does with their big tight ends (split out wide) and what USC does splitting out their TBs as wide receivers (and, of course, what Rich Rodriguez did at WV).</p>
<p>Sorry for the long post, the personnel and strategic changes necessary to properly support the spread offense are interesting to me.</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisApplewhite</title>
		<link>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9430</link>
		<author>ChrisApplewhite</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.barkingcarnival.com/chrisapplewhite/lets-build-an-offense-part-1#comment-9430</guid>
		<description>"Conventional wisdom is that wide spacing of the line (like Tech does) is . . .what other adjustments have to be made to the scheme when less holding is tolerated by non Big 12 refs?"

Good point. It's always fun watching OU hold its way to a Big 12 championship then get destroyed in a bowl game. Loadholt won't be going pro thanks 100% to Johnny Dingle. The advantage we'll have is that in zone blocking, it isn't necessary to dominate your opponent. If he wants to run by, let him, and use his own momentum to push him out of the way. That opens up a gap that, hopefully, the RB sees.

"The offense needs at least one tall wide receiver"

Agreed. We don't really "need" it but it would make us a ton better. This is where we'll have to rely on freshman like Malcolm Williams. Someone is going to have to step up.

"Do you really need that second running back in the backfield"

In this case, yes. The emphasis is on running the option with a not-so-polished passer. We need as many options back there as possible. Meyer's offenses and typically had a west coast passing scheme attached to it and didn't rely so heavily on the run, until this year. There will still be plenty of motioning out of the backfield, though. This is just a base set.

"The emphasis on flexibility is great so why not rely less on classic wide receivers and put running back or tight end (leaner, faster variety) type or really big wide receiver type out wide?"

I would, if we had any. Shipley and Cosby are the only two any of us have seen play, so they pretty much have to start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Conventional wisdom is that wide spacing of the line (like Tech does) is . . .what other adjustments have to be made to the scheme when less holding is tolerated by non Big 12 refs?&#8221;</p>
<p>Good point. It&#8217;s always fun watching OU hold its way to a Big 12 championship then get destroyed in a bowl game. Loadholt won&#8217;t be going pro thanks 100% to Johnny Dingle. The advantage we&#8217;ll have is that in zone blocking, it isn&#8217;t necessary to dominate your opponent. If he wants to run by, let him, and use his own momentum to push him out of the way. That opens up a gap that, hopefully, the RB sees.</p>
<p>&#8220;The offense needs at least one tall wide receiver&#8221;</p>
<p>Agreed. We don&#8217;t really &#8220;need&#8221; it but it would make us a ton better. This is where we&#8217;ll have to rely on freshman like Malcolm Williams. Someone is going to have to step up.</p>
<p>&#8220;Do you really need that second running back in the backfield&#8221;</p>
<p>In this case, yes. The emphasis is on running the option with a not-so-polished passer. We need as many options back there as possible. Meyer&#8217;s offenses and typically had a west coast passing scheme attached to it and didn&#8217;t rely so heavily on the run, until this year. There will still be plenty of motioning out of the backfield, though. This is just a base set.</p>
<p>&#8220;The emphasis on flexibility is great so why not rely less on classic wide receivers and put running back or tight end (leaner, faster variety) type or really big wide receiver type out wide?&#8221;</p>
<p>I would, if we had any. Shipley and Cosby are the only two any of us have seen play, so they pretty much have to start.</p>
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