DeLoss Dodds on Big 12 Stability and Missouri Leaving

I think the numbers will be close enough between the conferences for the point to be made.

Mizzou & A&M; won’t be better off financially after factoring in exit fees & increased travel costs.

Mizzou started this whole mess. They flirted shamelessly with the Big10 and got turned down. Nebraska wasnt considering moving until Mizzou’s selfish actions destabilized the conference.

Watching Missouri get prison raped by the SEC Sisters is going to be pure joy.

Silly as I think A&M; is going to look in a few years — at least on the football end — Missouri could become the Baylor of the SEC. Tigers are strongly dependent on Texas talent in football, and that source will be impacted negatively with no games in Texas except for the occasional College Station trip. Mizzou also isn’t the power in the lesser men’s sports that A&M; is, and the SEC is only going to make that worse.

I’m not sure how West Virginia fares in the Big 12 — because of geography and travel and difficulty for fans to attend events — but Mizzou is going to be worse off. Distances are excessive, especially if Missouri ends up as part of the SEC East, and it’s harder to fly into Columbia and Knoxville and Tuscaloosa than it is into Houston or Austin or Oklahoma City.

And, all of Mizzou’s old regional rivalries — Nebraska, the Kansas schools, the Oklahoma schools — will be in other conferences. Mizzou’s closest SEC rival is Arkansas, and the teams may play in different divisions.

Watching Missouri get prison raped by the SEC Sisters is going to be pure joy.

I would agree but Mizzou actually got the better end of the deal than A&M.; In the East division Mizzou gets bad Kentucky and Vandy teams. They also get really down Tennessee and Florida. SCar and Georgia are good, but they couldn’t win the Big12. In the West they’ll get their rival game (A&M;) and one other (not sure who it’ll be. Overall that’s manageable for a few wins.

I like the Mizzou kid’s meth mouth.

The money will be so close that after adding travel costs for all sports, that I don’t think Mizzour or Tamu will make any more money. I can’t believe Mizzou more than I can’t believe the Ags. The Ags hate us and did anything they could to possibily change the landscape. So now they only play 5 games in Texas a year against nobody from Texas and have to play LSU, Bama and Auburn…bad idea jeans. But Mizzou makes the Ags look like Alabama and ND in football. They finally become relevant playing 3 or 4 games a year against Texas teams in a “Texas conference” and recruiting 90% of their difference makers from Texas. Now they will play 1 game every other year in Texas in a “non-Texas conference.” They lose 100 year old rivalries with KU, NU and OU. What the fuck are they thinking? They can’t even blame it on 100 years of inferiority complex causing them to make irrational decisions.

I hope we stick with 10 teams and no CCG unless we pull the unthinkable and add ND. I love getting to play every team in the conference and the fairness in winning the conference title. We can schedule 4 or 5 games the last week of the season while every other conference only has 1 game. We don’t have to beat the same team twice to win the Big 12, go to a BCS Bowl or play for the MNC when we are that great again.

The Pac12 played on a damn Friday night in Oregon for the love of God! UGA didn’t play Arkie, LSU or Bama. That is a serious issue in getting to play for a conference title. Now that they have 14 teams, that becomes an even bigger issue.

OSU is a barely missed FG against ISU from playing for the MNC and RG3 wins the Heisman from fucking BU playing on the last day of the year against us. Our conference is doing just fine with 10 teams. We lost some academic prestige, but I don’t think our athletic affiliation determines much in our academic status.

edsp,

Mizzou is definitely going to be in the East, and they will play in B/CS every other year.

Well DeLoss has never been wrong on media assumptions. I’m convinced. Such a believable guy. Now so generous too by spouting the equal shared revenue line.

The SEC gets to renegotiate. The Big 12 might get a fine deal, but more $ than the SEC over say, the next 20 years, is fucking insane.

I hope we stick with 10 teams and no CCG unless we pull the unthinkable and add ND. I love getting to play every team in the conference and the fairness in winning the conference title. We can schedule 4 or 5 games the last week of the season while every other conference only has 1 game. We don’t have to beat the same team twice to win the Big 12, go to a BCS Bowl or play for the MNC when we are that great again.

One other advantage to the way we did things this year is that we had two off-weeks during the season including one in the last half. That can make a huge difference to resting people, recovering from injuries, and coaches fixing things or introducing new things. While teams playing a CCG are having to play a 13th game we’re finishing our season on the same week playing only our 12th game and having had an extra off-week.

ColoradoAg said:
December 19th, 2011 at 11:37 pm
“Well DeLoss has never been wrong on media assumptions. I’m convinced. Such a believable guy. Now so generous too by spouting the equal shared revenue line.”

Spoken like a typical Aggy… Dodds is more believable than that puppet you call a president! Your brethren, $ Bill & Bowtie Loftin didn’t vote for the equal revenue sharing plan either, you idiot! You shouldn’t need to worry about the next Big 12 TV contract, I could care less what the ATM will make just being average… what ever is will be, it won’t be significantly more!

Well said hot rod. The pr campaign spun out of Aggieland was something even Spaeth communications could envy. “But hey, do you guys want to continue playing even though we have spread a pile of dung all over the place as we’ve walked out the door”

Congrats to McKinney, Wilson, Stallings and other regents who did your school proud by hiring bowtie to push their agenda. All the while trashing every tradition and value your school claims to hold dear. You guys did a fantastic job with the Sherman firing as well.

Also, there is no way A&M; gets away with their actions without a threat to cut public funding had our current embarrassment for a governor not be occupying the public mansion in Austin. The whole episode was rotten to the core. Have fun, Ags, changing every tradition at a school where tradition and honor are apparently core symbols you idiots hold dear. The sad thing is your fanbase bought the pack of lies as truth.

The total revenue of the SEC deal will probably be bigger. It will also be split 14 ways. Blech.

I think there is a better than even bet to be made that Dodds is on the money here — per school revenue in the Big XII has an excellent shot at being higher than for any other conference, excluding the CIC money in the B1G, of course.

Yes!

A “bad idea jeans” reference. Well done.

Coloradoag, when it comes to athletic dept revenues and 100 year decisions, do you honestly bet on Loftin over Dodds/Powers?

The point above is spot on IMO. The revenue PER school will be roughly the same. Except of course for those of us who have our own network. Tack on the additional travel costs and it’s a tougher break even. But then again you can’t put a price on chanting SEC I suppose.

The next SEC deal is going to have some auto-kickers in there, which will essentially guarantee it X-% over anything other conferences negotiate.

If you were going to lock me in a room and give me only B-12 or SEC programming, year round, I would take SEC in a heartbeat. I understand that someone has to put a happy face on pumping up the B12 ratings in Charleston and Plano, but 4 state schools gone in a 2 years? That’s a disaster, no matter what Dodds says.

I’ve seen a compelling case that a B12 championship game would have swung the BCS formula OSU’s direction, flipping enough PCs to put OSU over the top. Imagine Texas in that position.

Sorry, things are worse now. Not horribly so and not permanently so, but definitively worse.

Emotion does NOT play into what I say here. agricultural and Mizzou bailed on the Big XII for the SEC of their own volition. They didn’t mean much to me while they were in this conference…they mean nothing now, and talking about them equates to having a heartfelt discussion about Wyoming, as far as I’m concerned.

That being said, I agree that agricultural’s decision had a lot less to do with earnings, and a lot more to do with their inferiority complex concerning UT. Bowtie’s “100 year decision” statement, nonsensical as it was, is spot on in one sense. agricultural, in moving east, is cutting off their own nose to spite their face. Any improvement they get in their football program from SEC affiliation is going to be years in coming, while they had at least a slightly easier path to relevance in the Big XII. That being said, their decision has been years in the making, and you can’t argue with a closed mind…even if you’re prone to still wanting them around, which I’m not.

Mizzou’s decision is a head-scratcher in so many ways. The only reason I can see them making the jump is because they’re convinced the Big XII is going away sooner, rather than later. I believed that, but I don’t anymore. If Mizzou really believes Dodds is a major player in the Big XII, that he’s one of the biggest at calling the shots, then they haven’t been paying close attention to his actions for over a year. UT COULD have jumped to the PAC once, or even twice, but didn’t. UT agreed to tier one and two revenue sharing, when it didn’t have to. UT officials made a special trip to Norman when it looked like OU was jumping to the PAC, just to try to reason with the okies about staying in the Big XII. Mizzou’s football program in the Big XII has been good for several years now, largely because of the Texas recruits they’ve been able to bring in. That’s going to become history with their move to the SEC, which is admittedly a tougher conference, and I’m not even bringing up Mizzou bailing on all of their traditional rivals. Them not playing KU is every bit the equivalent of UT not playing OU.

The bottom line, to me, is that both schools made their own bed by moving to the SEC, but I wonder if either really understands the price they’re paying for moving. I guess it must be worth it to them for them to go around chanting “S-E-C”.

ColoradoAg: I’m usually a fan of your postings, but don’t let facts about what actually transpired during BigXII votes stand in the way of the ongoing re-education campaign pouring forth from Aggieland. Sometimes it makes Orwell’s “1984” look like the McGuffey’s Reader. I wish you lads good luck in the SEC. Buh bye.

Nebraska wasnt considering moving until Mizzou’s selfish actions destabilized the conference.

I don’t believe that’s true. NU just used that as a pretext for leaving. They (namely their god, Osborne) were never happy about the Big 12. Perhaps if they weren’t on the far losing end of a 9-1 series w/ Texas, things might’ve been different.

I hope we stick with 10 teams and no CCG unless we pull the unthinkable and add ND. I love getting to play every team in the conference and the fairness in winning the conference title. We can schedule 4 or 5 games the last week of the season while every other conference only has 1 game. We don’t have to beat the same team twice to win the Big 12, go to a BCS Bowl or play for the MNC when we are that great again.

+1

I think OU wants to go back to 12 teams b/c they know that will marginalize the North division schools. The North division schools won’t be able to recruit TX as well if they have fewer games in TX.

Other points:

1. At first I thought Mizzou was screwed by being placed in the SEC East. But the more I thought about it, the more it makes sense for the Tigers. They will be losing TX recruits. Therefore, they need to have “access” to FL & GA recruits. Whether they’ll be successful recruiting those guys is another matter, but at least they’ll have a presence.

2. I cannot believe that, over the long run, the Big 12 will make out to be financially on par w/ the SEC & B1G. The networks have a weird boner for those 2, especially the former. No way do the networks allow any conferences to be in the financial neighborhood of those 2.

I trust Dodd’s business acumen just fine. But his incessant bitchass whining about a conference championship game is tedious.

We’ll see whether or not Mizzou make more money in the SEC—they’re going to get fucked on a weekly basis, and make money doing it. They have a name for people who practice that trade.

What MIssouri loses in Texas recruiting they will gain in BigTen territory.

I wasn’t a Deloss fan when he started his tenure as AD, but I have to admit that he has built one hell of an athletic program. Based on track record, I have to defer to his judgment.

As for aggie, I think the thing that will affect them most is the lack of significance in Texas. Next fall when aggis is playing Bama and Tech is playing Baylor, just watch how the ags react when the bar manager refuses to switch the sound from the Tech/ Baylor game to the aggie game. Almost every SEC game is already available in Houston, so the argument that ags will bring 27 million viewers to SEC football falls flat. When they try to brand themseves as “The Texas aggies” they will get laughed at for trying to run from their aggie identity.

The Big 12 will do well as long as Texas and OU continue to do well and play the role of the target every team wants to knock off. There just aren’t enough SEC alums in Texas to make Texas a big tv market for the SEC. At the end of the day, I guess we will see how it all turns out, but as I said, I’m deferring to Deloss for the time being.

From my Big 12 friend at a recent Xmas party in Dallas: The Big 12 isn’t going to 12 teams anytime soon because (a) appetite isn’t that heavy until things settle out a bit, and (b) there is no viable 12th team on the horizon. Louisville is a viable 11th, but there is no 12th even remotely close at this point. They are expecting WVU to be here next year, but recognize that legally that may not be the case. Expectation is that higher exit fees after continued jurisdictional pissing match will resolve it with Big East. The ND deal is still very much alive when TV contract time comes around and possibly before then due to the demise (relative) of the Big East in basketball. No one is in a hurry to add a CCG just because others have one. The new Commish won’t be elected until June when the rabble have finally been swept away and the new voting members will be here. Look for continued heavy lobbying for a Plus 1 format as a frontal assault for an ultimate playoff.

As for me, I don’t get those who have angst about the conference going forward. The Big 12 is doing fine and will continue to do so. In fact we have upgraded in both football and basketball (WVU). We had 7 teams (including the newbies) finish in the Top 25 BCS with two in the Top 10 in a year where Texas was down, which won’t continue. The B1G had 5 with only one in the Top 10 (#10). The overhyped Pac 12 had two Top 5 teams and no one else. Stanford will regress without Harbraugh and Luck with USC probably sliding back in so that’s where they’ll stay at best. The SEC, while it is currently the best, has diluted itself competitively and strung itself out geographically They forced themselves to settle fo a team that none of them really wanted to get to 14 and a lot of them have sobered up on just how shitty Aggy is, Texas TV’s/recruiting or not.

What MIssouri loses in Texas recruiting they will gain in BigTen territory.

Consider me skeptical. MU had access to that area while in the B12. Now all road trips except Arkansas will be like going to Waco or worse (I’m talking approximate distance, not location). Can’t imagine parents in say, Ohio, are gonna be that pumped about driving to Mississippi or Alabama. Or Columbia, as far as that goes.

“What MIssouri loses in Texas recruiting they will gain in BigTen territory.”

Please elaborate.

Jake, so Missouri and A&M; will help pay for WVU to come to the B12. Cool.

That’s kinda the way I thought this will work out. BE has its path charted. They can keep WVU if they really want to, but it will hurt.

Mizzou will compensate for losing Texas recruits by getting more from B1G country? Really? Last time I checked, Mizzou is still located where they’ve always been, next door to the B1G. If they’ve only been able to pull X number of recruits out of B1G states for decades, why is them going to the SEC gonna make any difference? It’s not like they’re going to be a big time player, in any sport, in the SEC. They were at least competitive in the Big XII, with all of their star players from Texas.

Here’s another consideration too…Nebraska is going to have to find a new recruiting ground now that they’re in the B1G. They may still get a few Texas players…Mizzou too for that matter…but is Nebraska really going to outrecruit tOSU in Ohio? Penn State in Pennsylvania? Michigan in Michigan? Notre Dame in the Chicago area? Wisky in the frozen northland? What about USC, Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Washington out on the coast, which used to be a Nebraska stronghold? If you have to ask these questions of Nebraska,, which at least has a semblance of a national reputation in football, at least until Pelini screws it up some more, then how is Mizzou, new SEC member or not, gonna get these recruits out of B1G territory? I’m not seeing it.

Mizzou is screwed. They will get a warm cup of spit out of Big X country just like they always have. And they will still watch a good portion of the best talent in St Louis go to the Big X, and a good portion of the best talent in KC go to Nebraska and the Big 12.

They can’t even get a visit out of DGB and he lives 3 hours away – roughly the same distance as Fayetteville.

This school has never been able to close its own borders and has 30 something Texas kids on its roster. Already hearing that they have re-allocated their staff to SEC states in a tacit admission that recruiting in Texas will be much tougher now.

BIH, although I didn’t ask the impression I got was that it would be WVU ponying up the ectra fees, but they’d do it in a hearbeat because they’ll make more in the Big 12 by getting out earlier. I didn’t ask, but it might be that WVU would get a break on the “unequal” distribution that they and TCU will be subject to for a few years as new members of the Big 12 to assist them if they paid more to the Big East. I was told during OU weekend how long that period is but I forget and I believe they and TCU receive more each year during that period of time until they get to a “full and equal” share.

Like you and others, I’m still waiting on the explanation from HornChamps of how Mizzou will make up the Texas recruiting losses in B1G territory.

“Already hearing that they have re-allocated their staff to SEC states in a tacit admission that recruiting in Texas will be much tougher now.”

So Mizzou coaches are now waltzing into high schools in Florida, Alabama, Louisiana, etc. and trying to recruit there? “Hey there son, have you ever thought about playing for Missouri? What’s that, you don’t know where Missouri is? No, it’s not next to Montana.”

Random thoughts, some related to this thread:

- Big 12 will survive (and flourish even) as long as we (and to a lesser extent) OU want it to survive
- Because of the BCS incentive structure, moving to a tougher conference or even playing difficult non-conference games is not a smart decision for most schools looking to play in the MNC game. Nebraska was a lion in the former Big 8, but became just a mean looking dog in the Big 12. Arkansas was a mean-looking dog in the SWC, but became a puppy in the SEC and lost all of their recruiting footprint in Texas. Sure, they had an outstanding year this year, but how about the other 20 years since they made the move to a more difficult conference. You listening, Aggie? And for Missouri, it will be even worse, as “Show Me a winning season” will soon be their new state slogan, after completely losing their recruiting footprint in Texas.
- Both schools will regret their decisions, although only Missouri has the potential to actually admit their mistake. Perhaps. If they are lucky, a playoff system will be installed quickly, so as to ease their suffering.
- Playoffs are coming. Make no mistake, for that is where the money is. Hell, they already have the timing +1 format in place, with the last game already about 1 week after the other 4 BCS bowls.
- Jerrybowl becomes the 5th BCS bowl (and a +1 championship is added) during the next BCS negotiation, which is the year after next, right? With Jerry Bowl, you will have each region of the country represented (Los Angeles, Phoenix, Dallas, New Orleans, and Miami), well except for the north, but hey, thats the price of a playoff in the middle of the winter.
- Later, after the end of this next BCS contract, Im sure that everyone will want another 8 teams to be added to make it 16, and hence I predict the birth of the playoff at this time.
- Then, and only then, will we allow Aggie to play us again in a non-conference game. I predict that Aggie will also resume their annual Bon Fire tradition this same year. Poor Aggie.
- For us fans, we will rejoice the playoff system, not just because it is what we have always wanted, but because finally we will have good non-conference games to watch, just as already has happened in basketball, as the incentive structure will have changed. Looking at the Horns football schedule for next year just makes me sad. Please add that Notre Dame game ASAP!
- At the same time, distributing your own 3rd tier rights will have already become the norm among forward thinking universities( sorry Aggie), as more schools want to control their brand, even if they can only stream it online.
- Unfortunately, the difference between the haves and have-nots will continue to grow, as money incentives will drive schools, especially independent schools like Texas and Notre Dame to stick together.
- So in summary, Im just fine waiting around in this duct-taped Big 12 conference for the next 5-15 years, until a playoff system is finally formed. Im expecting at least 2 MNC during that time.

Hook em!

Jake, just figuring that if there is a need, the Big 12 Bank would have sufficient deposits to loan WVU some departure cash. But I think the league would be wise to consider the money well spent even if they don’t get a penny back because WVU then could leave immediately, and the B12 really could benefit from that.

The message in the article was clear that the SEC is a super conference and the Big 12 not so much.

Also, I notice Dodds did not say anything about the incredible success of the invisible LHN.

BIH, I agree that they’ll find a way to help WVU in any way they can if they need to. They have a lot invested in them getting here in June. I also agree with your earlier response that BE would be wise to let them go if they don’t want to be there

Flash, if you consider putting millions of bucks into not only our AD but into our school to be a failure, I don’t lknow what to tell you? The Texas Lege cut education to the bone for the next two years. How many profs do you think can be hired with the money UT (non AD) will get from LHN?

I’m as disappointed as the next person that distributors have been slow to sign up, that I’ve missed a few basketball games this year and won’t see baseball games that I wouldn’t have seen even anyway without the LHN. But I put the financial well-being of my school above that, especially at a time when grandstanding politicians are ruining Texas childrens’ educational opportunities by failing to use available funds for it just so some cunthead Aggy could run for President using it as a platform.

And spare me the argument that it had diddly to do with Aggy tucking their tail between their legs and running from Big Brother or that Missouri, who had already exposed their genitalia to Delaney well before there was a LHN, weren’t looking to leave irregardless.

There’s not a single school in our conference that wouldn’t have signed that deal. In fact, if our administration had truned it down, they should have been fired on the spot for abdicating their fiduciary responsibilities to the taxpayers and the UT student body.

My apologies to all for political references.

“I understand that someone has to put a happy face on pumping up the B12 ratings in Charleston and Plano, but 4 state schools gone in a 2 years? That’s a disaster, no matter what Dodds says.”

I agree somewhat here. Loss of N is huge, the rest…I really don’t mind. Mizzou is a perennial underachiever, as is aTm. The only real loss with those two is the rivalries within the league. We will develop new ones.
WVU is a perennial achiever (or at least moderately better in the W category…and we get Holgersen back…so there’s that) and TCU not only has done well of late, they have a great coach and are already competing with some of the big boys without a BCS Auto bid. In short, I will take TCU over Aggie all day every day (in-state trade)….and WVU over Mizzou is probably a slight gain.
One additional thing to consider about WVU is it gives us a huge regional outlier. Meaning, of course, that when WVU and Texas (or another ranked B12 team) play, we give an outlet to all the NE fans that don’t particularly like our region. The layman’s description would read: Anyone located in the NE that doesn’t like Texas (OU, OSU, etc…) will watch this game rooting against our region. Basically, they think… “WVU is close enough, and I hate Texas, so GO WVU!”. But they are still watching….

“Sorry, things are worse now. Not horribly so and not permanently so, but definitively worse.”

I wholeheartedly disagree. We lose two schools that brought very little to ratings except for rivalry games. We gain two new competitive schools with large and wash ratings (WVU and TCU, respectively). It’s an overall positive. Which brings me back to…

Nebraska. Passionate fans, great atmosphere, great football. This was our worst loss. However…How often did Nebraska win? They had quite a few down years (remember them pulling the blackshirts?). So even with their recent (success?) winning seasons, they still average out to marginal for the span of their stay in the conference.
The one thing Nebraska had going for it (in terms of revenue and market viability despite a low population density) was that fans there are all DIE HARD. I lived there for 2 years and even if they go 5-7, everyone is watching. This is partially because Nebraska (as a state) sucks, and there is nothing to do until you hit the border (Ahh, Iowa gambling).
I believe this will be offset by the huge NE USA audience that will be picked up by WVU (we discussed this earlier). No one likes Texas. Which, of course, means everyone in the region we are playing is watching to see us slip up (not exactly uncommon of late). If we can get the kind of ratings LSU v. WVU got once every year, and combine that with the overall viewership gain throughout the year, I don’t think we are doing any worse than when Nebraska was here. Especially because everyone in the B12 decided to play football this year.
If we combine the factors of losing teams, and an overall wash in viewership it looks like this:

60 (million) / 12 = 5 million for each school
60 (million) / 10 = 6 million for each school

These numbers came from nowhere (I just made them up because it was easier than searching for the newest and most accurate numbers in an attempt not to look like a jackass…too late?) …but it illustrates how if we maintain the same (or more?) financial income, and lose two hands reaching for money, the whole conference gets more cash.

Thusly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqv_VXG_Z34