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Posted by CloseToJumping on June 21st, 2009 under Football, Recruiting
Some folks that read this site probably aren’t even old enough at this point to remember a time in college basketball when it wasn’t dominated at a recruiting level by the AAU programs. Hell, I might be one of them. What I know and don’t need to have recollected to me is that AAU and the shoe companies have effectively sullied the recruiting landscape for college basketball in ways that are probably irrevocable. That’s another post for another poster, hopefully at some other point down the line.
Why do I bother typing about that anyway? Well, it’s pretty simple. College football is currently being ruined at the recruiting level in much the same way, albeit by a different deathdealer than the AAU programs. No, what’s happening in college football revolves around individual men dealing with individual players in very unseemly ways that is beginning to look a lot like human slavery. I don’t mean to sound dramatic, but if you think about the scenarios playing out at this point, maybe you can offer a different term.
What is a street agent, anyway?
We’ve seen this term pop-up a lot over the past few years. Really, the concept here is pretty simple and rarely varies.
A street agent is a person informally representing high school football players, ostensibly present to help the athlete ensure that he is selecting the right college for himself. Usually, the agent is involved with negotiating which schools the player will camp at, unofficially visit, officially visit, commit to, and ultimately sign with through the entirety of the recruiting process. Were it all altruism, this might sound like a pretty good deal for the players, especially those without a good father figure around to help them make the right decisions.
Unfortunately, altruism has very little to do with the process. Street agents are shrewd, street smart guys and they’re not doing this for anyone else’s good but their own. They’re usually paid for each step of the way by individuals associated with schools that will deal with them. They ingratiate themselves with the athletes by finding their targets, feeling them out about their family and values, and working their way in. Social aspects matter in this set-up and these guys are preying on the athletes without strong paternal ties, portraying themselves as father figures, for their own betterment and little else.
Why is this a big deal, now?
Up to this moment in time, few entities have been more powerful in the ranks of college football recruiting than the Texas high school football coach. He’s held the hands of players, run off the bad elements, and counseled the mommas. Yeah, there are exceptions that can be pointed to, but those are exceptions proving the rule.
Now, the game is changing. Specifically, the 7 on 7 tournaments in the summer time, the camps in the summer time, the elite camps in the summer time, these are all giving people more access to players than they’ve previously gotten. Beyond that, communicating with players has become unfathomably easier within the high school world than just a decade ago. High speed & wireless are everywhere. Anyone can afford a wireless phone. Chat, Facebook, texting, etc., all make it easier for the insidious to infiltrate. As these guys dig further into the Texas ranks, the power of the legitimate entities that clean schools like Texas rely upon in the players’ lives, such as the coaches, is dramatically weakened. As that starts to unfold, it becomes harder to recruit and win on the level.
The Street Agent does more damage to Texas than almost any other school
It is happening right now, this very summer. One of these guys in particular is based out of Houston and he’s been a player for a while now. He’s the answer to many of the questions surrounding various mysteries in the recruiting realm over the past 5 years. Not all of the players involved have hailed from Houston, as his reach is certainly expanding.
Remember RJ Jackson’s recruitment?
How about Brandon Lafell’s?
How about Terrance Toliver’s?
Michael Goodson’s?
How about Trent Richardson’s recruitment, then? How’s that for recent?
I wonder where the recruitment of Tony Hurd and Shaun Lewis goes from here forward?
Is this getting any closer to home for you?
Ok, well, remember that tournament in Las Vegas a month or so ago?
Lewis was there. So was Ahmad Dixon.
The Lache Seastrunk recruitment has certainly had its ups and downs. The ties with Travon Reed are certainly myriad. They really might wind up in the same spot.
Understand that the players themselves, in any situation with a street agent, usually doesn’t know much of anything. They’re happy for the help and the guidance. Do their families benefit? Sometimes, you’d have to think. A lot of times, a mom is just happy to have a paternal figure helping their kiddo out. Just know that the underhandedness in any of this usually does not come from the player’s direction. That’s not always true, of course, but it’s often the case.
Understand, I’ve never met the dude and everything is just hearsay, to be certain. But there are guys out there who have heard of him and know him well. Coaches, gurus, players, parents.
If you want to know who is rumored playing the game with the street agents, you don’t have to look very far.
Honestly, how well do we really believe programs can control boosters? Some schools don’t even want to control them, or the coaches.
LSU, could be playing the game.
Alabama.
Auburn.
USC.
Tennessee.
Who signed some of these guys?
Yes there are others, but these places have embraced the game.
Going rates at some places are rumored to be $3000 for a camp visit. $12,000 for a commitment. $36,000 for the signature.
That may sound extreme, but you have ignored the SEC if you doubt it. Spend some time around a big time kid’s high school games in a place like Houston, or talk to some folks that are involved with the whole recruiting game, and pictures can become pretty clear.
I’m wondering why a good school like Texas, doing things legitimately, and there are others like them, doesn’t go out and hire a private investigator and have this stuff looked at. It is endangering the lifeblood of the program. If payments happen, does the IRS know? Does the involved school know? These are all interesting questions.
We could always look at things and think to ourselves, “Well, Texas will always get its fair share.” We’ve thought that before.
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Newy25 said:
June 21st, 2009 at 11:20 am
A recruit in the Dallas are told me during Nick Saban’s first year that he did not have to worry about his ACT because Alabama had arranged someone to take it for him. The recruit declined the offer and eventually did not get through the NCAA clearinghouse.
The street agent? Small potatoes. Alabama, OU, USC et al are funneling large amounts of cash to current players and allowing them to cheat to stay or get eligible.
Bill Little said:
June 21st, 2009 at 11:30 am
No, what’s happening in college football revolves around individual men dealing with individual players in very unseemly ways that is beginning to look a lot like human slavery.
No, what’s happening in college football revolves around individual men enjoying watching young men grow. And so it is on Joe Jamail Field at Darrel K. Royal Texas Memorial Stadium near the campus of The University of Texas at Austin in Austin, Texas on Saturdays when games are played with the football and young men growing.
TaylorTRoom said:
June 21st, 2009 at 11:36 am
That may sound extreme, “
No, it doesn’t sound extreme. In the ’50s, before the NCAA regulated recruiting, a blue chip halfback went for $50k. That was when $50k was worth a lot more, and college football revenue was a lot less. What did Albert means’ coach get for him? $100k?
This is a sport where the top teams’revenue rivals NFL revenue, and they don’t pay the worker. There is little reason to be shocked that somebody would be willing to pay six figures for a star.
Steve Nebraska said:
June 21st, 2009 at 11:55 am
Someone I know was told recently first hand by one of our players that said player was offered $40,000 to sign with LSU.
Jen Seastrunk said:
June 21st, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Lache is not in Tennessee this weekend. I just talked to him! Why don’t you believe me? Cracker!
NateHeupel said:
June 21st, 2009 at 12:35 pm
“Alabama, OU, USC et al are funneling large amounts of cash to current players and allowing them to cheat to stay or get eligible.”
Not to contradict your burnt orange paranoia with logic, but I don’t think there’s enough money going around OU, or the state of Oklahoma for that matter, these days for such activity. I’m not trying to say OU has too much dignity for such activity. I think history has clearly proven this to be false. I’m just saying OU doesn’t have enough money. I appreciate your faith in us, though.
Alabama is part of the SEC, which says all that needs be said, and Nick Saban has all the integrity of a televangelist.
USC I’m not so sure of just because they can bait kids with beaches, whores, and parties (aka Tuesday). Although it would explain a great deal about USC’s unchecked success with recruiting.
Scipio Tex said:
June 21st, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Sadly, this is going to be an increased part of the landscape. The toothlessness of the NCAA, and, to a lesser extent, the prominence of the SEC (and their connection with ESPN and the major media) serve as a pretty effective buffer to any real penalty. Over the last decade, Alabama has proven to be as filthy a program as there ever was in NCAA history and the NCAA cann’t even summon a mild wrist slap. Others see that and act accordingly. Tennesse will be an amusing sideshow of depravity over the next five years.
Newy:
The street agent? Small potatoes. Alabama, OU, USC et al are funneling large amounts of cash to current players and allowing them to cheat to stay or get eligible.
He’s describing the mechanism by which a player comes to be placed in these programs. There have always been direct payments made at dirty programs. The new thing on the landscape is the high school football equivalent of World Wide Wes - the prominent middlemen dealmaker and enablers who auction off kids. Their insinuation into multiple recruit’s lives is pretty much unprecedented.
Kashemeyia Adams said:
June 21st, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Why is everyone looking at me all of a sudden?!?!
Nobis60 said:
June 21st, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Ms. Adams -
I thought it was spelled with a ‘C’ - my bad.
srr50 said:
June 21st, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Every SEC team — Vanderbilt included — is about to get an additional $3-4 million per year in TV money compared to the other BCS conferences thanks to the SEC’s deals with ESPN and CBS.
Be afraid — be very afraid.
Kafka said:
June 21st, 2009 at 3:28 pm
CTJ:
Excellent question about hiring private detectives, been wondering about that myself. Mack might be afraid that hiring an PI might trigger some unintended consequences. Having said that, I’m all for hiring PIs to investigate recruiting chicanery. In the long run UT will benefit.
Regarding not enough money being available to cheat: there is always enough money to cheat. When I played in high school (in the economically challenged Ozarks), my dad was offered free house rent if he would move to another town (so I would play in that town).
We might be in a recession but there are still lots of guys with a spare $5k to chip in for a blue chipper.
Newy25 said:
June 21st, 2009 at 3:36 pm
“He’s describing the mechanism by which a player comes to be placed in these programs. There have always been direct payments made at dirty programs. The new thing on the landscape is the high school football equivalent of World Wide Wes - the prominent middlemen dealmaker and enablers who auction off kids. Their insinuation into multiple recruit’s lives is pretty much unprecedented.”
I actually do not see the harm in the street agent. If paying players has always been the norm why not get representation to help maximize the offer? Nothing “new” in terms of illegal behavior by the schools so why would Texas all of the sudden be at a disadvantage? As one poster alluded to earlier - players on our team routinely get offers of large sums of money to sign with other (SEC) schools. Jamarkus McFarland and Darrell Scott would have accepted illegal gifts if they had no street agent.
NateHeupel-
Seriously. We are not that far removed from Bomargate. I realize car sales have slacked off but if there is any money held by boosters you better believe Stoops has committed that money to players as part of an overall recruiting strategy. And for USC? Are you joking? OJ Mayo? Reggie Bush? They might well indeed be the biggest participants in the entire country.
HenryJames said:
June 21st, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Nothing “new” in terms of illegal behavior by the schools so why would Texas all of the sudden be at a disadvantage?
Because players who normally would not be bought are having their decisions influenced my adults around them who can be bought.
Reggie Bush said:
June 21st, 2009 at 7:16 pm
I got a house, not some measly $36k.
CrazyJoeDavola said:
June 21st, 2009 at 9:01 pm
Personally, I think the best recourse is to hire the PIs as suggested above, and use their findings not as a format with which to expose wrong-doers, but as a spur to have the NCAA or whatever governing body thinks it best to step in and open the entire fucking process up to God and everyone.
Seriously, if this is the way things are going, just shine some disinfecting sunlight on it and join in.
We level the playing field, since our pockets are just as deep as everyone else’s.
We can set up a registration system for these so-called agents, maybe even get them professionally accredited, and thus spur self-interest on their part to keep riff-raff out of their own ranks.
We remove the thrill that the SEC and other rogues obviously get out of doing something underhanded, because it’s no longer underhanded.
We reveal just how spine- and toothless the NCAA is and force them either to curl up and die (my preferred result) or decide to fully commit to be a governing body.
And maybe we finally get ourselves out of the hypocrisy loop that sends billions of dollars to corporate interests and starts sending some of that to the labor pool (i.e., the players).
Put another way, it’s the college football equivalent of legalizing marijuana. Yeah, it would lead to some unintended consequences and inequities among schools … like those don’t exist already. But it would also lead to a much more open, honest and mature system where people can no longer hide behind the skirts of “amateur integrity”.
I can guarantee you that the people and institutions that are benefiting from this growing situation would HATE having it opened up to everyone, in the same way that the DEA and countless local and state law enforcement agencies would HATE having marijuana legalized.
Sue Halliburton said:
June 21st, 2009 at 9:07 pm
We don’t need a PI, all we need is a hard hitting newspaper columnist to get on the trail.
HornInExile said:
June 21st, 2009 at 10:43 pm
Elsewhere in the Big 12, Coach Snyder and the past two ADs can’t produce any documentation for 13 disbursements to them totalling $850,000. Is it any wonder that Michael Beasley and Josh Freeman played their college ball in Manhattan, Kansas?
K-State’s golden era tarnished by financial audit
EnglishAg said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 1:49 am
Given that the NCAA is so against paying players, wouldn’t one solution be to allow players to go directly to NFL organisations who could then use establish feeder / minor league football, CFL and a european league as feeders for the big show.
Which stakeholder is the bigger obstacle - the players union or the NCAA?
While ensuring at least a couple of years of college education for athletes is a great thing, I question why people bother when grades and attendance are so obviously faked.
Tim said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 4:36 am
While I don’t think UT is anywhere near the level of the Alabama’s, USC’s, and OU’s of the college football world.
I don’t think UT fans should be pushing for a PI, I doubt that the UT program is as squeaky clean as ya’ll are making it out to be.
If you don’t think UT boosters have contributed even in the slightest way to UT’s recruiting classes the last few years. You’re either ignorant or choosing to look the other way.
If any program is going to push to hire a PI to expose NCAA recruiting, it should probably be a program who chose to have nothing to do with the recrutiment of the McFarlands, Scott’s and Seastrucks of the world.
Huckleberry said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 4:39 am
I refuse to pay attention to you until you learn how to use apostrophes. Even then I probably won’t pay attention, though.
Bob in Houston said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 5:02 am
English Ag: If the NFL takes over the development of young players, they have to pay for it. Why reinvent the wheel, if the high D-I schools are willing to do it?
MLB doesn’t do it because college baseball never was important enough, played at a high enough level, nor had enough support (fans willing to watch) to make it worthwhile.
Basketball is doing it now with the NBDL because so many HS players and young college players were coming out unprepared to play at the highest level. But players have been coming out early for more than 30 years, and it has been only in the last 10 or so that the NBA dipped its toe into the player development water.
As long as college football remains popular, the NFL is going to stand back, keep its hands off, and not say a word about the rules the NCAA imposes. They don’t care how the players are developed, as long as they are.
WhoooTex said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 5:38 am
That question was raised in “A Payroll to Meet”, which I believe Taylor first tipped me (us, readers) to in his series on the history of cheating in college football. Initially we feared a retaliatory NCAA notification by our more ethically-challenged peers in the SWC, but when SMU signed Eric Dickerson and Craig James, UT basically decided shit had gone far enough and threw its challenge flag. That started the probation frenzy.
We were right, though, about retaliation: SMU and A&M eagerly started feeling out recruits to find out what horrible shenanigans UT was up to. We didn’t keep a payroll or give away Trans Ams, but we were doing enough to land on probation (guilt by association if you ask me- the shit we went up for wouldn’t even get you a cross look from the NCAA nowadays. They might make you vacate a couple of touchdowns from the third quarter of your season opener, that’s about it).
I don’t agree with it but I am guessing a desire to avoid getting splashed by run-off from the gutter is the reason we haven’t pushed harder for investigations.
Stuck in MN said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 5:59 am
I’ll second Whoo on A Payroll to Meet. Great book for any recruiting fans to read. It is out of print so you might have to track it down at the library.
I sense that things are starting to repeat and we are going back to the time chronicled in that book. It’s been too long since the NCAA last put the pain on someone and everyone has forgotten to be afraid of them. In about 2016 someone it will get to be too much and they will finally hit someone again- but the next 7 years will be very lucrative for some teams.
CurrentHorn said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 6:18 am
“If any program is going to push to hire a PI to expose NCAA recruiting, it should probably be a program who chose to have nothing to do with the recrutiment of the McFarlands, Scott’s and Seastrucks of the world.”
Texas Tech “chose” to not recruit any of those players in as much as I “chose” to not sleep with Megan Fox last night.
Eskimohorn said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 6:52 am
“but I don’t think there’s enough money going around OU, or the state of Oklahoma for that matter, these days for such activity.”
Nate, surely you cannot be serious. Even in these difficult times for ou oil barons, the monies described above are certainly tit money for OU’s nuvoriche alum.
And, we appreciate the “wink, wink” defense of OU’s integrity you bring to this board.
NateHeupel said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:23 am
“I don’t agree with it but I am guessing a desire to avoid getting splashed by run-off from the gutter is the reason we haven’t pushed harder for investigations.”
Bingo. The bottom line, as OU found out the hard way, is that you really can’t know what your boosters are doing if they don’t want you to.
OU’s big break in Bomargate was when Big Red Sports got bought out by Hudiburg Auto. Until then, we couldn’t even get the time of day from that place.
UT hasn’t sent the dogs because they’re honestly not certain what they’re guilty of. The McFarland incident put the fear of God into UT. McFarland’s family has consistently stood by the part of the story where his mom got offers of “interest free loans” from UT boosters. UT had nothing to do with that, but Bomargate is proof that the NCAA doesn’t care too much.
Newy, I’m going to let you in on a secret. If OU itself had anything to do with Bomargate, you never would’ve found out about it in the first place. The anonymous email sent to Boren and the NCAA would’ve been traced back to a “disgruntled” ex-employee (read: patsy) who would’ve been discredited and crucified (and then paid a large sum of money to take the blame and keep quiet). The records would’ve been whitewashed, and Bomar would’ve handed UT its ass in 2006 and 2007 before leaving early for the draft.
Stuck in MN said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:44 am
“OU’s big break in Bomargate was when Big Red Sports got bought out by Hudiburg Auto. Until then, we couldn’t even get the time of day from that place.”
What color is the sky in your world? So OU had a job referral program with an employer that refused to cooperate with them. That’s your story?
Rod Wright said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:02 am
I handed Bomar his ass
the Bobs said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:19 am
nate… seriously - how much of what you guys say do you believe yourselves?
Remember the Seinfeld episode where George gives Jerry advice on how to beat a lie-detector? “Remember, Jerry, it’s not a lie if you believe it.” Just picture George in an OU sweatshirt…
WhoooTex said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:40 am
“Bingo. The bottom line, as OU found out the hard way, is that you really can’t know what your boosters are doing if they don’t want you to.”
I’ll have to write less colorfully going forward. I think you missed the point of my metaphor. What I meant was, UT is afraid of the same thing happening to them in 2010 as happened to us in the mid-80s: we reported all of the cheating sonsofbitches around us and they responded in kind. SMU got the death penalty, A&M got television and bowl bans, and we got probation and a milquetoast reprimand from the NCAA. We’re not going nuclear with turning the cheaters around us in because we don’t want either a) more piss-ant sanctions against the University because a coach let a recruit finish his Dr. Pepper or b) the kind of bullshit scrutiny Ohio State underwent when Maurice Clarett, Norma McGill, and Tom Friend decided to crib their version of narrative truth from an episode of Playmakers: The College Years.
You mention McFarland- awesome, thanks for making my point. His mother’s as crazy as a shithouse rat and twice as likely to bite someone. You think the University wants to spend ten minutes having to defend itself against shit Alex Jones thinks is outlandish? She’ll probably call Bigfoot as a character witness.
Myles Brand said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:25 am
I take great offense to the claims that the NCAA has neither the stomach nor the enforcement power to address this issue. In fact, look for our new program to be announced at the next coaches convention.
Beginning in 2011, all recruiting must be done via sealed bid. This should eliminate the problem with the street agents.
Tim said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:56 am
“”“If any program is going to push to hire a PI to expose NCAA recruiting, it should probably be a program who chose to have nothing to do with the recrutiment of the McFarlands, Scott’s and Seastrucks of the world.”
Texas Tech “chose” to not recruit any of those players in as much as I “chose” to not sleep with Megan Fox last night.
“”
If UT really wanted to be known as a “clean” program they would have dropped the recruitment of Scott and McFarland when it became obvious they were looking to get paid.
Whether UT was in a bidding war or not, they get lumped in to the cheating mix when they end up in the final two for guys like that.
Texas Tech never jumped on McFarland because they knew Lubbock didn’t have enough nose candy parties to keep his attention.
The General said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:15 am
Texas Tech never jumped on McFarland because they knew Lubbock didn’t have enough nose candy parties to keep his attention.
Have you ever been to Lubbock?
The General said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:22 am
One thing Nate and I agree on is that I think that not trusting our own boosters is a very good reason not to choose the nuclear option with other schools.
I don’t think Mack or DeLoss condone cheating. I think DeLoss has been clear with boosters for some time payments are not tolerated (Exhibit 1 1986 through Mackovic). I also think there is no way to stop a booster from taking action.
Does anyone here believe that a UT alum banker in Lufkin that is dumb enough to loan Kashemeiya Adams money could not possibly exist?
Michael Crabtree said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:26 am
“Texas Tech never jumped on McFarland because they knew Lubbock didn’t have enough nose candy parties to keep his attention.”
The problem is in Lubbock - there’s too much nose candy. Just ask my old roommate. Oh, wait. He’s in Leavenworth.
BatesHorn said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:33 am
Lubbock is missing many, many things: Culture, attractive women, liqour stories inside the city limits, a reason to exist. Shortage of coke is not an issue in Lubbock.
CloseToJumping said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:35 am
A lot of good bullshit on this thread. Okies coming on and claiming cleanliness and/or ignorance. Come on, guys, be serious. I even left you out of the original post in an attempt to keep it from becoming silly with your claims of being tidy or undeserving targets or what have you.
Someone advocates going into the street agent game like the rest of the schools. It’s always an interesting debate. In my mind, cheating is cheating so I am not for it. At the same time, if they made it legal, etc., I’d be all for it. We could outspend everyone else by a wide margin. I wouldn’t mind seeing us push for the changing of the way things are done.
For those of you naive enough to think that this isn’t affecting us right now, I straight up told you that it is impacting us. I didn’t make anything up or pull anything out of my ass. This is impacting us directly now and the staff or the program in some way should take action. They know what is going on and they know some of our boosters have been propositioned like everyone else.
I noticed the false appearance above of Jen Seastrunk. It is a reference to Shaggybevo, where she actually posts regularly. There are posters over there that think she actually will play a role in the player’s decision. I think she thinks she will. She seems nice enough and it would be awesome if she did play a role. It is too bad that that is not the case. Lache Seastrunk went to Tennessee this weekend, shockingly. He wasn’t listed by Rivals or Scout as having an interest there, although it was obvious they’d be in contention for him. Hell, they signed Bryce Brown through a street agent in a public manner a few months ago.
CloseToJumping said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:37 am
BTW, my experience with Lubbock is minimal, but I know enough about Tech to know that that is where parents send their daughters who are too stupid for Texas and ATM. Those daughters are usually hot. It’s like Texas State but in a dusty shithole. Not sure about a shortage of attractive women there, is what I’m typing, Bateshorn.
Ag_in_TX said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:38 am
I’ve started and stopped three different replies to this topic.
The “street agent” is real and has to be stopped. But the parents themselves aren’t a whole hell of a lot better in a lot of cases.
You would think the parents would only be interested in the best interests of the child. Sadly, this is not always true, and almost never true when the kid’s “uncle” is handling him.
The General said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:42 am
BTW, my experience with Lubbock is minimal, but I know enough about Tech to know that that is where parents send their daughters who are too stupid for Texas and ATM.
And can’t afford SMU or TCU. Those girls are playing the fetus lottery.
Jet said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:54 am
I doubt this is even news with all the stuff that goes on in the SEC but recently some relatives of mine from the Baton Rouge area told me of first hand experiences they had in a related area. Apparently the business where my relative used to work would hire LSU football players over the summer and assign them very few duties that were easily fulfilled by the normal employees for the rest of the year. Beyond that apparently a normal work day for these players consisted of coming to work and sleeping in their office until it was time to leave. I don’t know what they were getting paid but a job napping sounds like it is probably violates plenty of NCAA rules.
The General said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:04 am
Jet,
I knew a couple of Aggie boosters that bid against each other for the honor of having a local Ag baseball player do the same kind of work.
BatesHorn said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:29 am
Could be my own personal experience with a warpig many moons ago. But, that’s really on me, not the girls of the greater lubbock area.
Jet said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:39 am
It just amazes me that stuff like that is so widespread and apparently common knowledge but nothing is really done to try to reign it in. On a related note I would not mind having one of those jobs.
Tim said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:53 am
“”Texas Tech never jumped on McFarland because they knew Lubbock didn’t have enough nose candy parties to keep his attention.”
The problem is in Lubbock - there’s too much nose candy. Just ask my old roommate. Oh, wait. He’s in Leavenworth.”"
Nice try, but Crabtree’s “roommate” was busted in his home town in New Mexico not in Lubbock.
Not saying it’s never happened, but Tech has never had a recruit write a term paper talking about free nose candy and girls. Whether it actually happened or not, Mcfarland dragged UT down in the gutter with him.
Of course he ended up in the biggest gutter in the lower 48.
Monahorns said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:00 pm
If street agents are such a big problem for football why hasn’t it hurt us in basketball? Or has there been a recruiting policy change there? I’m not arguing they have not had an effect with certain recruits, but overall how can we be doing so well in basketball recruiting?
BatesHorn said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:21 pm
The danger here, is it appears much easier to funnel money to a street agent. “Hey, If Big Red Auto wants to give random Houston Dude money, what’s wrong with that?”
And that’s where the IRS is eventually going to come into play, one way or the other.
Al Capone said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:21 pm
True Dat.
8straight said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 2:31 pm
“McFarland dragged UT down in the gutter with him.”
You are a delusional idiot.
Jen Seastrunk said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Cracker!
Reality said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:53 pm
No recruit is going to turn down $40k from LSU and go to Texas just b/c he likes Mack Brown
More Reality said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:56 pm
The idea that Texas keeps pulling in top rated classes in spite of all these recruiting schenanigans while being the cleanest school in the country is faulty logic.
Lyles said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:07 pm
The other player represented by this particular street agent was Patrick Johnson, the stud DB from south Florida who somehow chose LSU (of all places….).
Interestingly, the visit list for Patrick Johnson was: Miami, Alabama, USC, LSU, and A&M (yes, a national top 10 recruit from Florida visited A&M…..hmmm….). That is a good list if you want to accuse a recruit of being shopped by a street agent.
To my knowledge, Tennessee didn’t pay this street agent under the Fulmer regime, but has recently began doing so since hiring a recruiting guru from (…gasp…) USC named Kiffin.
Again, to my knowledge, Auburn wasn’t involved with this particular street agent until Chizik arrived. Maybe Mrs.Tubberville’s lament upon her husbands firing had some merit (”we just won’t pay recruits like Saban does”).
Lastly, I must concede that I haven’t heard anything about A&M being involved with this agent since Fran left the program, AND, (painful to admit) I’ve never heard to OU being involved with any of the agent’s recruits. Perhaps OU prefers the direct-to-momma approach?
Lyles said:
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:18 pm
One other comment….while the original poster hit the nail on the head, another avenue for the street agent to infiltrate the recruiting world is through being a “personal trainer” and running a boutique training facility for potential recruits in an area. This is largely what Brian Butler is doing up in Wichita, and it is really most akin to the AAU model in basketball.
Become the local “expert” for training and skills development, and build a network of local recruits to spread the word to the next wave of recruits. Further, the agent touts all the schollys that he got for his clients through his connections to major programs. This lures in the parents, where applicable.
Eventually, young Johnny joins the training program, and Johnny is now under the de facto control of the street agent / professional trainer.
Stuck in MN said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 4:53 am
More reality-
I don’t think anyone on this board claimed that Texas is the cleanest school in the country, in fact several posts point out that it is highly likely that overzealous boosters have crossed the line, a fact which worries our staff.
I think the point is that there is a huge difference between systematic cheating that is sanctioned by the program, and boosters that cheat on their own despite requests from the athletic department to stay out. That’s like comparing a felony to a misdemeanor.
I will say with a lot of confidence that Texas is one of the cleanest programs in the top 20, and is much much cleaner than USC, OU or any school in the SEC (sans Vandy).
Ag_in_TX said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 5:33 am
The summer jobs thing raised earlier goes on at EVERY D1 school (hell, and most D-1AA and D2 schools as well) to some extent or another. Most companies are smart enough to make sure the kids do SOME work - but they are almost universally overpaid.
Keep in mind that the student athletes are forbidden to work during the regular school year per NCAA rules. This is actually a big deal to a lot of students - summer is the only time to “make up”.
Kafka said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 5:39 am
“The idea that Texas keeps pulling in top rated classes in spite of all these recruiting schenanigans while being the cleanest school in the country is faulty logic.”
UT doesn’t claim that it is the cleanest school in the country but it does attempt to be clean. It is clearly much cleaner than competitors such as USC, OU, LSU (and the rest of the SEC), and A&M.
UT has clear advantages relative to most other schools between the coasts. UT is an excellent school with a great football tradition, central Texas is pretty (including outstanding rivers and lakes), and Austin is one of the coolest cities in the country (with absolutely great music). Texas has an ocean of football talent. These are all big advantages in recruiting.
BTW, bribery is only going to work with certain kids/families, not all (or even most?). My dad was offered a bribe for me to play at another high school and he turned it down.
www said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 6:22 am
“Not saying it’s never happened, but Tech has never had a recruit write a term paper talking about free nose candy and girls. Whether it actually happened or not, Mcfarland dragged UT down in the gutter with him”
but you have to remember most students/recruits going to tech don’t have the eloquent writing skills of mr mcfarland. they are more used to the true/false variety of assignments
Levander Williams said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 6:31 am
I can’t say that I’ve seen any of the Warren Gilbert-type of summer jobs for college players.
However, I can say that I worked in Austin one summer and saw Thomas Baskin, who was a defensive lineman at the time, working a real job. He was hauling deliveries into the store where I was working, wearing work clothes & sweating his ass off.
I also know for a fact (through players & their relatives) that it was very common for boosters to palm some cash to the players to ‘take their girlfriends out for dinner’. I would bet my own money that this sort of stuff happens all the time at virtually every school - and it’s impossible to stop.
The organized payments & steering of players is much more concerning. It bothers me a lot to see this AAU/agent bullshit seeping over from basketball into football, and I’m undoubtedly pissing in the wind to think that Myles Brand and the NCAA have the integrity to do anything about it.
HenryJames said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 7:55 am
Listen to Lyles.
TaylorTRoom said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 7:57 am
From a NYT article…
Intermediaries have long operated in college basketball. The N.C.A.A. is essentially powerless to patrol the actions of third parties, and officials would not comment specifically on Butler. But he is viewed as part of an emerging trend.
“It wouldn’t surprise me that we’re seeing a little bit more of that in football,” said Kevin Lennon, the N.C.A.A.’s vice president.
J.R.69 said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 8:29 am
Complaining about this is like wiping your ass with a wagon wheel-there’s no end to it, nothing is accomplished, and you just keep going around and around through shit.
Crazy Joe Clark said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:20 am
“UT doesn’t claim that it is the cleanest school in the country but it does attempt to be clean. It is clearly much cleaner than competitors such as USC, OU, LSU (and the rest of the SEC), and A&M.”
I’ll give you USC and OU, and definitely Bama, but as for the rest you have no proof at all.
Also, USC has the same recruiting advantages as Texas (great tradition - better in fact, great recruiting ground, cool city, players in the pros, exposure, media love, etc) and should not need to cheat, yet they do. If you are casting unproven allegations around at other schools, you better be damn sure you are pristine…and Texas is not, as evidenced by the Macfarland debacle.
Most schools “try” to be clean. (USC/Bama/Tenn being notable exceptions) delving into the gray matter of recruiting ethics and casting stones is a dangerous practice , particuarly when you are arguably the best recruiting school in the nation.
Reality said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:25 am
Nobody offered your dad $40k cash to get you to play high school ball. Also, I’d assume your family is at least middle class and money is not as pressing an issue. However, to a poor black family $40k is a much enticing.
TaylorTRoom said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:37 am
“and Texas is not, as evidenced by the Macfarland debacle.”
Crazy Joe, explain to me how a recruit that we lost to OU is evidence that UT is dirty, please.
Vasherized said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:41 am
Texas is Squeaky Clean at 18-1 odds to commit the next NCAA violation.
USC leads the pack at 8-1. Tennessee offers a nice payout at 14-1 considering Kiffin’s gross disregard for NCAA rules.
Is there anything you can’t bet on?
Crazy Joe Clark said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:43 am
Are you saying that if you get outcheated then you never cheated at all? Losing a recruiting battle to the dirtier school does not mean you have no dirt on your hands. Texas did not desire to get filthy in its recruitment of Macfarland, but were they willing to get a little dirty, it seems so.
While I dont subscribe to all the contents of the douchebag (isnt that a great word?) blogger who wrote the McFarland expose, I do subscribe to the theory that a lot of smoke means at least a little fire.
Whatever happened, the recruitment of McFarland did nothing to polish Texas’ image.
Crazy Joe Clark said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:44 am
BTW kudos to Myles Brand. I love the sealed bid idea. Perhaps we can create a stubhub type site where universities can bid on a recruit.
It is downright shameful how the NCAA makes its money exploiting college athletes. Where have you gone Steve Prefontaine?
The General said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:25 am
Those are great prices on Oklahoma and Tennessee.
Stuck in MN said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:04 pm
Is the bet on who is the first to commit, to get caught or to get punished?
Vasherized said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:15 pm
The latter. If it was the former, half those teams would be at even odds.
Barry Switzer said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 2:29 pm
I taught a lot of these “streeters ” everything they know, but mot everything I know.
HenryJames said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 3:55 pm
There’s a very entertaining and revealing thread on ShaggyBevo about this subject.
Facebook User said:
June 23rd, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Baby Jesus is weeping.
Kafka said:
June 24th, 2009 at 9:30 am
CrazyJoe:
“for the rest you have no proof at all”
A&M cheated like crazy during the Jackie Sherrill years.
NCAA sanctioned LSU in 2005 by taking two scholarships from the football team. The rumor is that the NCAA is currently taking a hard look at LSU. Louisiana has been an incredibly corrupt state for a long time. It would be surprising if such a corrupt state as Louisiana was not corrupt in football.
Arkansas just came off NCAA sanctions for cheating.
You stipulate that Alabama and Tennessee are cheaters.
It would be tedious and depressing to check out the rest of the SEC. I am willing to give Vandy a pass. Are you an A&M or LSU fan, Crazy Joe?
It is true that USC has a lot of advantages recruiting (great history, babes, Southern Cal climate) but LA ain’t what it used to be. I spent 5 days in the LA area recently looking for real estate deals and wasn’t impressed. LA is hugely overpopulated, the crime is terrible, the traffic is terrible, and the air quality still sucks. All that might not matter to a lot of recruits but it will matter to a lot of parents. I don’t know how relevant it is to cheating but the economy sucks, too. USC is a football mecca but it has some disadvantages to deal with as well.
Ideally recruits would be paid their market value. If that can’t happen then I would be super happy to shine some daylight on the recruiting cesspool. In the long run, UT will benefit. If you could eliminate all cheating in college football recruiting, UT will still do great (for the reasons that I have already cited) but schools like A&M and LSU will not do so great.
Lost My Moral North Pole said:
June 24th, 2009 at 9:37 am
So it is okay for a head football and basketball coach to be made millionaires utilizing the efforts of what in effect are indentured servants, but it isn’t okay for the family to reap a fraction of a billion dollar industry overseen by a non-profit organization? Robert Tilton needs to take over for Brand.
Kafka said:
June 24th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Reality
“However, to a poor black family $40k is a much enticing.”
What does black have to do with it? Are you saying that a poor black family is more likely to take a bribe than an equally poor white family?
I also think that most poor families are going to turn down the bribe because they think it is wrong to take bribes. Of the remaining poor families (that are not constrained by ethical factors), my guess is that most still don’t take the bribe because they don’t want to risk losing a 4 or 5 year full ride scholarship worth maybe $200k to take the illegal $40k.
Of course, if the bribe goes directly to the athlete (i.e. the family is not involved) then anything can happen. 18 year olds are not known for good decision making.
A. R. said:
June 24th, 2009 at 10:16 am
Kafka-thank you.
Kafka said:
June 24th, 2009 at 11:42 am
Lost My Moral North Pole
“So it is okay for a head football and basketball coach to be made millionaires utilizing the efforts of what in effect are indentured servants, but it isn’t okay for the family to reap a fraction of a billion dollar industry overseen by a non-profit organization? Robert Tilton needs to take over for Brand.”
Yes, as I stated previously: “Ideally recruits should be paid their market value”.
Accepting bribes is not the ideal way to make that happen. The way to do that is for the athletes to organize. I hate to admit it but street agents could actually help organize the athletes so that they could negotiate a better deal for themselves and their families. I didn’t see that coming.
the Bobs said:
June 24th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
let’s be honest though… if street agents DID help organize, the outcome is much more likely to be that they negotiate a better deal for street agents…
Crazy Joe Clark said:
June 24th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
The 80’s was a quarter of a century ago. Bringing up Jackie Sherril as evidence of A&M being dirty is like saying people should vote Republican b/c of Ronald Reagan. You do realize that when Jackie was coaching his last game Johnny Carson was still doing TV, right? Live in the now, man.
Reality said:
June 24th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
“I also think that most poor families are going to turn down the bribe because they think it is wrong to take bribes. ”
I cannot believe you are this naive.
Also, being black has nothing to do with it, Jesse. I was just adding a little illustration due to the fact that a) most high profile recruits are black and b) black families are more likely to live below the poverty line than whites.
gobears92 said:
June 24th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
Yep Scipio, toothless-ness is a concept well known to the ncaa for its’ useful-ness and for its onamanapia-ness. As long as they talk tough….yikes
Kafka said:
June 25th, 2009 at 9:41 am
Crazy Joe:
A&M has been a much dirtier program than UT over the long haul. Once you destroy your reputation, it is hard to get it back (looks like it takes longer than 20 years). People are still laughing at the Aggies for pulling their sabers on the football field many years ago.
The last time that A&M was doing really well, it was enabled by cheating. For A&M to do very well again, most likely it will need to break the down cycle by cheating.
Reality:
I’ve known lots of poor people in my life (was poor myself for several years). Most of them would not take bribes. Some would but not most. Maybe the poor crowd that you’ve run with is different than the poor crowd I’ve run with.
I also think most poor people are smart enough to know that taking a $40k bribe is a poor risk when balanced against the value of a full ride scholarship and the degree that you can earn with a scholarship.
Athletes should be paid market value but why do you think the family should be paid? The athlete (not the family) is taking the hits, risking his health, working out in the August heat, and working incredibly hard to be a good as he can be. The money should go to the athlete, not the family. Might be a good idea to put the money in a trust fund for a few years since giving big money to a teen ager is probably not a good idea.
I notice that you called me Jesse. Are you implying that I am a racial extortionist (maybe comparing me to Jesse Jackson)? I was not calling you a racist, I just pointed out that being black does not make one more likely to accept bribes (as you seemed to imply). It turns out that you were just sloppy in your writing (I’ve been there, done that).
Norma Rae said:
June 25th, 2009 at 10:59 am
UNION!!!!!!
CloseToJumping said:
June 26th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
The link below is a video from the USC Elite camp. At the :35 second mark listen to who the USC coach yells out for. My guess is that ol’Seastrunk and mom are there, with others. Awesome.
http://texas.scout.com/a.z?s=110&p=2&c=875200
Scipio Tex said:
June 26th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Close To Jumping:
That is amazing stuff.
Chooky said:
June 26th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
Heh. Slick Willie.
Vasherized said:
June 26th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Just when you thought it couldn’t get any better…
Austin180 said:
June 26th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
CTJ, I’m not a Scout subscriber so I couldn’t hear it for myself but over on Shaggy apparently it’s “Mister Willie Lyles.” Keep the info coming. The more sunshine the better.
bigdukesix said:
June 28th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
HenryJames: Fuck you for describing that ShaggyBevo thread as “revealing” and “interesting”. One day soon I blow you house up bomb.
I had to read through six pages of posts from quasi-literate knuckle-dragging troglodytes just to get some information from SL Xpress.
Chooky said:
June 28th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
That thread was like the first 20 minutes of ‘Saving Private Ryan.’
Ron McKelvey said:
July 18th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Hey Jen, have your boy get in contact with me.
No Fan Of Cheaters said:
July 28th, 2009 at 10:23 am
Who has fared better under the current system of basketball recruiting, particularly at a program with no basketball tradition to speak of, than Rick Barnes and Texas? Please spare us the hand wringing and doom predicting with regard to how Texas will fare dealing with the street agents of football recruits. The network seems to be firmly in place. Do you people really believe that out of the blue all of the highly rated basketball players just *want* to play basketball at Texas? Have you noticed how much Barnes recruiting has improved now that he is at a school with one of the largest athletics budgets in the country? It’s no coincidence.
jeff green said:
August 11th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
The same schools that have been cheating their asses off since the 50’s continue to do so. O.U., Alabama, U.S.C., L.S.U. etc. The sad fact is their seems to be a seperate set of rules for schools like S.M.U., and T.C.U. that the N.C.A.A. enforces as opposed to O.U. Alabama, USC, LSU etc.
El Kabong said:
August 13th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
Looks like someone (Will Lyles?) just pocketed $12,000. Shawn Lewis just committed to Oklahoma St.
Scipio Tex said:
August 13th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Yeah, I saw that. Oklahoma State definitely looks to be playing the game.
Interested to see where Tony Hurd ends up.