West Virginia, Mountain Momma

This ONLY makes sense if it puts the final nail in the Big East’s coffin and drives a lost and lonely Notre Dame into the Big XII’s waiting arms (for non-football sports, that is).

West Virginia is an upgrade over Missouri in every sense. I like this move a lot.

Let’s face it, we are going all in on the LHN. The Big 12 is our only realistic option if we go that route so we need to make this thing work.

TCU and West Virginia are plus schools to me for football but I still want the conference to get back to 12 teams that want to be part of something longer term. With Missouri gone now I think we have only teams that want to stay.

Sad to lose Mizzou. This is making semi-sweet lemonade out of those lemons. I like couch burning.

They Fit and will make things interesting, Hope they can get here before 2014 as some are saying the date could be.

We may be building a football juggernaut in the Big 12.

A thought occurred to me last night when I read somewhere that the Big 12 wants to get every nickel out of A&M and Missouri: I wonder if we would use the exit fees paid by those schools to, in turn, pay the exit fees of West Virginia. Seems that that would be one way to get them on the schedule quicker.

I do like adding West Virginia.

Maybe this is part of the plan to acquire Boise St. as well? Boise was headed to Big East because of WVU, now that they are headed to the Big12, is this a sign of things to come?

Boise State offers nothing.

What would the rational argument for adding Boise St. be?

What is the rational argument for WVU? Are they someone we would have wanted with Mizzou still here?

<i.West Virginia is an upgrade over Missouri in every sense. I like this move a lot.

+1

I love adding WVU. I was so afraid we’d go for Louisville instead with all the talk we’d been hearing. No way Louisville is preferable to WVU.. I actually think WVU is an improvement over Mizzou. I can’t convince myself TCU is an even trade with A&M, but they aren’t vastly inferior.

On the whole, I feel like WVU and TCU are an even swap for A&M and Mizzou. To lose those two and feel like you’ve come out even is huge boost to me. I really think the pieces are there to make the Big12 a strong and viable conference for the LONG-TERM.

Oh and the best part about the swap is that the bizarre gay cousins of the conference are gone.

They are not an even swap. Not even close. Mizzou is a bigger school, better academically, and near a bigger TV market. A&M is the second best state school in Texas, a huge state. They aren’t even close to even swaps, but they are the best we could do.

WVU is an even swap for CU. TCU is close to an even swap for NU, albeit without the program history.

cinncinatus -

I think Notre Dame sends non-football to the ACC.

West Virginia brings two BCS bowl victories with them. The Mountaineers beat Georgia in the 2006 Sugar Bowl, and they beat Oklahoma in the 2008 Fiesta Bowl. Missouri has never even been invited to a BCS bowl.

Is there any chance Mizzou stays?

Boise St. can hang…..2-3 undefeated seasons, plus 2 BCS bowl wins with latest in 2010 (other bowl win was vs OU in the “statue of liberty” bowl game)

Also, West Virginia is in the eye of the ####Eastern Sportscasters####. The increased regional exposure is a good thing for the Big 12.

It’s true that A&M and Mizzou have larger fan bases than TCU and West Virginia, but the casual fan seems more likely to watch teams like TCU and West Virginia who have a reputation for being BCS good.

Morgantown is no garden spot; on the East Coast it’s known as MoragnHole. WVU’s academics are way behind ATM. It’s a LOT farther away than Missouri. And their fans are nuts. I can remember seeing their BB coach take the microphone to plead to the fans to stop throwing batteries. Virginia Tech had to stop scheduling them in football because of fan behavior. So remind me, why would we want them?

Jesus. The Big 12 is college football’s Island of Misfit Toys. The conference is now a rag-tag assortment of free agent programs with no regional or cultural ties to each other. I hope this duct-taped mess of a league is just a very short-term bridge to Pac-16 membership.

What a giant clusterfuck conference realignment has turned out to be.

The Big 12 could threaten to take Louisville and Cincinnati, if the Big East doesn’t agree to release West Virginia early. The Big 12 holds the Big East in a kung fu death grip.

While we’re at it, we should also force the Big East to sign a contract not to take UH and SMU in exchange for us letting them live.

Toadvine-

Academics. Funny.

If that is what this was about we would have invited Rice. West Virginia is a better sports school than Missouri.

West Virginia definitely plays better football than Mizzou, but the stretched geography is definitely a negative. In the current context, it is a good move. TCU makes sense geographically and has a very good recent history in FB, so I can’t argue against that. If this WV thing sticks, we’ve got a decent shot of coming up with something good and durable but I really think we need to get back to 12.

I can now see Louisville as a logical geographic connection to WV. They are a bit down right now in football, but have been pretty good in the last 20 years and their basketball is a real plus. If Louisville follows WV, Notre Dame is now in the Big XII’s geographic neighborhood at that point. Maybe the re-constituted Big XII becomes the default option for them as they can swap out their NBC contract for an exclusive network, retain a great deal of autonomy and not take a ding on the revenue side? The Domers would absolutely love re-establishing inroads in the Texas recruiting market, that much I know. I can dream, right?

I really wish we would have busted a move on Pitt before the ACC did. Then Rutgers would make more geographic sense. I do think we need to commit to a 12 team model and go ahead and invite Louisville right now.

I think Notre Dame sends non-football to the ACC.

That could very well happen—I think ND wants to maintain an east coast presence. But I’d love it if they turned our way instead.

As for all the pro-WVU comments on here … I’m starting to feel like I stepped through the mirror and landed on some kinds of weird alternate planet. That’s the only thing I can think of that explains Texas fans being excited to welcome a bunch of gap-toothed hillbillies to the Big XII. This isn’t a home-and-home for 2021-2022 we’re talking about—this is MARRIAGE. WE ARE MARRYING KEVIN PITTSNOGLE. IN HIS OLD HIGH SCHOOL CAFENASIUM/GYMATERIA. Or have you forgotten this?

http://deadspin.com/154106/all-hail-kevin-pittsnogle

The only justification for that, in my mind, is that we are gold(en dome) diggers—a perfectly respectable Texas tradition.

What I don’t get is why we are competing with the Big East over anything except basketball?! Brick is right, this is a huge cluster.

It’s clear that the Big XII’s first/immediate criteria for invites has focused on making sure the conference is a viable football conference — i.e., get the strongest football programs that’ll come on board — and not how much ‘TV eyeballs’ do they bring. In long term, this maximizes Texas’ economics. Me likey.

@BrickHorn -

You are really NOT getting into the spirit of this! Who is the squirt gun that squirts jelly?

Holgo, Huggy, dynamite, pole vaulting, laughing gas, choppers - can you see how incredible this is going to be?

Sorry Sailor, I just can’t get excited about WVA. Seems a very odd choice. Clearly the decisions about conference alignment are for the most part being made in regards to recent success (for football only). Forget academics, traditions and non football sports.

Never been to West Virginia and not really interested in going….. and the last time I drank booze from a mason jar was Uncle Su-Su’s circa 1985.

Academics aren’t the most important thing but they matter some. I don’t know that I agree that WVU is a better sports school than Mizzou.

Also? Gap-toothed, mountain-top removing, black lung having, moonshine drinking, squirrel eating West Virginia. Worse than Aggies? A push at least.

Can Notre Dame have their own network for tier 3 content in the ACC? IF they can’t, is that a big enough issue to send them the BIGXII’s way?

I like WVU, they are interesting and compelling, especially with the Skullet. Mizzou has really only had success with Pinkle, but never with a great defense. In previous regimes, you could get into the stadium if you brought a can of food.

Some people aren’t happy with anything.

Clearly the decisions about conference alignment are for the most part being made in regards to recent success (for football only). Forget academics, traditions and non football sports.

If by recent succes you mean 30+ years then yes I guess so, since WVU has been nationally relevant since at least the early ’80s. I remember watching WVU games when there used to be only one or two college games on TV for a Saturday and the whole country saw the same game. I can specifically remember watching Oliver Luck (the current AD) in the early ’80s and Major Harris in the late ’80s among others.

And as for non-football sports, I think basketball counts as non-football.

Pinkel can tinkle in the SEC.

I hear WVU has world-class programs in diesel repair, rural distilling, and fratrimony

I’m burning my couch in celebration as we speak. Hope this is a done deal or my wife will be pissed.

Looking through a mostly football prism, TCU and WV are huge upgrades in competition. Both schools have been more successful than either Aggie or Mizzou since the conference was founded. If moves are made for Notre Dame, Boise St and BYU to join us, the Big XII (whatever) will certainly be comparable to the SEC, if not better, from a competition standpoint. From a money standpoint BYU and/or Notre Dame would be the big prizes because of all the TV sets they bring to the table.

The best football conference in the country just got stronger. Ha Ha Ha Ha! Suck it SEC for this year at least. Screw playing in front of half full stadiums and disinterested fans and programs in the Pac 18. I’d much rather watch a game in front of 65,000 drunk Appalachain hillbillies than in front of 35,000 hackey sackers in Boulder or Berkley any Saturday of the year.

Isn’t that what this is about? Television? The Big 12 is without a doubt the 2nd most compelling conference to watch on a week in week out basis. Good football will bring viewers. Bad football in empty stadiums with west coast start times will not bring in the viewers. You think Tuscaloosa, Auburn, Knoxville have lots of TV sets? People watch the SEC because they play good football. They aren’t going to get the monopoly they wanted. Their only competition is staying in the game despite their best efforts to break it up. It will be SEC, Big 12 and everybody else when it comes to on the field football performance for years to come. Embrace it, you aren’t going to change it.

If you are thinking Boise St. think instead Colorado St. They are weak now but they have a large alumni base, student body, and a lot of potential.

Thoughts & West Virginia in the same paragraph? Really? Is there leakage from drunken frat rats from UVA hunting for some of them Mountain babes?

Brick for the win. This conference is fooling no one and realignment has been anything but a postive for our program.

Yeah, the location isn’t ideal, but I couldn’t be happier if I were twins.

Welcome Mountaineers, good to have you. I just wish we had also gotten Pitt so you could have the Backyard Brawl as a conference game.

2014 can’t come soon enough.

Bill Self and Rick Barnes think there are better candidates for expansion.

Guys, I’m a little new to couch burning. I have no idea what fuel works best, and what produces the fewest greenhouse emissions. Does pleather require some type of safety masks? School me please (cracks open Mountain Dew).

Colorado State is a fucking glorified high school. They sell like 500 tickets per game. I walked up to their last game and bought tickets for 12 dollars at the window and walked up to the front row.

The best I can muster is a faint, meh…

West Virginia has the best football and basketball of any school that was possible for the Big 12 to pick up. Excellent replacement for Mizzou. Better than Mizzou at football and basketball. West Virginia is also a really pretty state. I guess fall in WV must be pretty spectacular.

On the one hand, the loss of Nebraska and Mizzou was hurting us in that huge matchbook red phosphorous and Sudafed bathtub meth demographic and this certainly cures that. And the loss of CU was hurting us in the entitled fratboy at dealer kid demographic and TCU picks us up there. Now we need BYU to replace ATM’s core pone white supremacist, ultra-right demographic and the ship will be nearly righted.

A trip to MorganTown is not much worse than a trip to Columbia. And they want us.
So, I say take them.
Hell, take them right damn now and send Missouri an eviction notice. Maybe the SEC will have second thoughts about Mizzou and tell them they changed their minds and really do not want them as their 14th. It would serve Missouri right, since they started all this garbage last year when they spoke to the Big 10 about liberating them from the Big 12.

For those pissing on West Virginia tell me who we should take instead. We already tried BYU and neither party could make that work because of TV contracts. Maybe in the future but not now.

And don’t give any answers about us going to another conference. That ship has sailed for now. It’s not happening until the LHN is established whether we like it or not. Our only option right now is the Big12.

Nor is keeping any of the schools that have left (or in the case of Mizzou is leaving). Those decisions are made and the deeds done.

Do you want to try and maintain our national profile while competing in a Big12 that looks more like the SWC with Houston, or SMU, or even Louisville? Or do we have a better chance of national prominence in a conference that’s as strong as possible with programs having at least some national credibility and appeal?

So please tell me what schools should we be getting instead? I want to hear what the great programs are that we’re overlooking in place of WVU.

If people want to keep bitching about how we should’ve kept NU and A&M, or we should’ve gone to the PAC instead of figuring out how to improve the current situation, then don’t bitch at those of us who continue to resent the way Mack has torn down this program instead of singing Kumbaya about how everythings fixed and we’ll be good again next year (or the next…maybe).

I hope Tech and WV can establish a rivalry game for the John Denver Cup.

Why didn’t we at least approach Michigan and Ohio State? Answer me that.

Ded,

I can only hope the same folks that designed the Iowa v ISU corn themed trophy get first whack at the prestigious Denver Cup.

I hope Tech and WV can establish a rivalry game for the John Denver Cup.

OK I admit it. I have no idea what the connection is between John Denver and Tech.

Great comments as usual. I know the money arguments are compelling in this realignment dance. However, I am having real trouble seeing where the recruiting benefits (i.e. long-term success) are for schools who leave their region, and rivalries, for other conferences. Parents of athletes are typically very involved; they have attended their games since before middle school - and they don’t want to change that. Mack Brown, and Sally, are famous for recruiting the parents as well as the athlete. I just don’t see where the Texas, Missouri and West Virginia parents are going to be that excited about their child playing several hundred miles away half the time. Am I missing something here?

Lastly, I have never paid much attention to “college Presidents” until this last year. I have to say that I am amazed at the way many of them have conducted themselves….. and the Boards of these schools keep voting to “empower” these guys?

I don’t want to hear any more shit from anyone about how Texas won’t go to the SEC because of “academic inferiority.” We just invited West Virginia, the 164th ranked academic institution in the NCAA (http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/page+17).

So let’s have all the non-SEC proponents step in and tell us why we wouldn’t fit in… and I pretty much have one. “We don’t want to be involved in their corrupt recruiting.”

That’s it? Really? That’s the best we can come up with? If nobody else will say it, I will.

It looks like we’re scared.

Oh, some will pontificate about our having a better shot to get to the MNC through this makeshift Big XII, and some will cite regional games and travel distance.

But don’t ever let me hear the academic argument again. This proves it to be complete bullshit.

So we traded A&M’s tv sets in DFW, Houston, Austin, and SA for TCU’s miniscule number of tv sets?

And now we’ve traded Mizzou’s Kansas City and St Louis tv sets for, hell, I don’t even know where West Virginia’s tv sets are….

The Big 12 is dead. Why can’t Deloss realize this? When OU and OSU bolt (which will be soon) maybe he’ll get it then.

FWIW, Morgantown (MGW) is 1196 miles from Austin. A few other notable distances from Austin:

Louisville (SDF): 876 miles
Provo (PVU): 1051 miles
Columbia (COU): 671 miles
South Bend (SBN): 1016 miles
Pittsburgh (PIT): 1210 miles
Boise (BOI): 1375 miles

Meh.

Football wise, I actually envy ATM and Mizzou’s matchups every week.

This LHN better be worth it because we are in for five years of mediocre matchups. Will be interesting to see if we start losing recruiting battles because of it.

Nobody can convince me that we have replaced anything close to what we lost.

Am I the only one who thinks we should pick up Memphis instead of West Virginny? Its closer with a good basketball program and a football program that has plenty of room for improvement. And they know how to make the bbq good.

John Denver went to Tech. His real surname is some long-winded German name.

We now have access to the Appalachia radio market.

Also, who could have recognized at the time that when ESPN announced the LHN deal it would turn out so shitty for college football fans?

Almost wish the LHN had turned out to be what I expected, chump change of 3-5 million instead of 15 plus.

The Big XII should have been a freaking juggernaut and its an old Buick with primer all over it. Fuck.

The LHN is damaging our conference, damaging our ability to negotiate with other conferences, helping other conferences add teams, pissing off our fan base, and ultimately hurting our football team and our university’s reputation.

I can’t think of how the LHN could be mismanaged worse than it has or created more enemies than it has.

So we traded A&M’s tv sets in DFW, Houston, Austin, and SA for TCU’s miniscule number of tv sets?

And now we’ve traded Mizzou’s Kansas City and St Louis tv sets for, hell, I don’t even know where West Virginia’s tv sets are….

Traded? I don’t remember reading where we had a choice in keeping A&M or Mizzou. They both made their decisions and A&M especially was hellbent on the move. There wasn’t anything we were going to do that would keep A&M, and as far as I’ve heard we’ve done what Mizzou wanted to improve stability with media rights grant to the conference. If they still leave there’s not much we can do about it.

What we can do is make the best of the situation and get the most prominent programs we can to boost the conference. If you have better schools in mind then let us know who they are.

Oh, joy. Our backwater conference is now a backwater hill billy conference. This and the LHN are becoming a national laffer of epic proportions.

I think we’re all missing the real reason for this move. As Sailor astutely points out, WVU brings with it a great blog.

Fuck TV markets. This is the New Media paradigm. Blogs! Social networking! Various internettery! While the SEC is busy renegotiating its quaint little broadcast contracts with ESPN, ABC and CBS, a tidal wave of venture capital will flood Big 12 coffers.

Deloss and Co. are 10 years ahead of the curve yet again. Pioneers, imo.

Hot Shit!!! 4 hour roadtrip to see the Horns from my house. Ima destroy this ugly chick, and enjoy it!!!!

I’d rather have schools that want to be in this conference than ones that are always bitching & threatening to leave.

The Big XII should have been a freaking juggernaut and its an old Buick with primer all over it. Fuck.

Jesus Christ people. Are you really looking at where this conference is this year?

I know I thought things were looking down when A&M was leaving and the PAC talk was going on, but look at what this conference is doing on the football field. Despite the loss of NU and CU we’ve got the best conference in the country. Even excluding A&M we have 3 teams in the top 10, and five in the top 25. None of those schools are leaving. Add WVU and that’s 6. And Texas will hopefully be moving into that top 10 level soon.

We may not be able to maintain this level every year, but the conference is clearly showing that we can be among the best even with the changes that are happening. To act like this conference is the Big East is just ridiculous.

Joe, I think that’s the bottom line.

What are so many Texas fans bitching about the Big 12? The 10-team Big 12 currently has as many teams in the BCS rankings as the 12-team SEC does (ok, A&M is one of ‘em, but still). The other conferences don’t come close.

We’re in the Big 12. Deal w/ it. Don’t bitch & whine like the Aggies, Cornhuskers, & Tigers. It’s unseemly & unbecoming.

Good points, NYB. The Big 12 tried to get aggies and Mizzou to stay but to no avail. Replacements had to be found. Both TCU and WV are good football programs. Joining the Big 12 will help TCU’s football program to get even better. WV is a state university that is good at football and basketball. I’m happy that Big 12 football quality was the highest priority in finding the replacement schools.

Texas wants to preserve the Big 12 because it is the conference of our region of the country, dominated by Texas and Oklahoma schools. Staying in the Big 12 gives Texas more autonomy and freedom to act (especially WRT the LHN) than moving to another BCS conference.

Oklahoma is not going to leave the Big 12 so long as Texas is in the Big 12. OU is doing great in the Big 12, why screw up a great situation that is funneling OU into BCS bowl games year after after year? OU will pretend they want to leave to try to extort concessions from Texas.

This and the LHN are becoming a national laffer of epic proportions.

I don’t see the pollsters laughing with 3 top ten teams and 6 top 25 (excluding A&M and including WVU). That seems a bit more like respect than laughter.

WVU is a low-rent Nebraska in football, considering state size and the comparatively stout attendance. It laps the Huskers and Buffs in basketball, and is arguably better than Missouri and A&M.

I’d have rather kept the latter pair, but if it was inevitable, then this is OK.

Orangeblood 79 -

Here’s a few more reasons not to join the SEC:

1) Alabama, Florida, and Georgia run the SEC. Texas and OU run the Big 12. Texas would lose too much influence in the SEC.
2) The SEC currently allows schools to keep 3rd tier rights, but this could change at the whim of Alabama, Florida, and Georgia.
3) As a member of the SEC West, Texas would be forced to choose between cheating and winning championships.
4) The Big 12 is a midwestern conference with midwestern values and attitudes. West Virginia’s culture may be more SEC than Big 12, but why should Texas join a conference full of schools like West Virginia?

To tell how good a conference is, simply compare the number/type of teams who want in to the number/type of teams who want out.

is there any conference in America in recent years who has more teams who’ve wanted out than the Big 12?

OU and OSU are making plans without Texas. Guarantee it.

" . . . the last time I drank booze from a mason jar was Uncle Su-Su’s circa 1985."

Underrated piece of campus history there . . .

Damn, 1.8 million more Okie types.

This addition is TV driven. Not markets, which are more important if you’re starting a conference network, but match ups. TCU and WV are good football programs in the eyes of most college football viewers, so games between them and UT, OU, and whatever B12 schools are up that year provide more quality content for ESPN and Fox, who are paying us.

For those pissing on West Virginia tell me who we should take instead. We already tried BYU and neither party could make that work because of TV contracts. Maybe in the future but not now.
And don’t give any answers about us going to another conference. That ship has sailed for now. It’s not happening until the LHN is established whether we like it or not. Our only option right now is the Big12.

Answer: Don’t add anyone. Why is our only option the Big 12?

Personally, I’m a “Super-Pac [insert # here]” proponent, precisely because there are not enough available quality athletic/academic programs anywhere within 1,200 miles of us. So why take anyone? If we’ve put all our eggs in the LHN basket, come hell or high water, then we might as well follow ND and BYU to football independence until all this realignment b.s. reaches its conclusion and we land somewhere legitimate. Why stay in the Big XII-2-1-1-1whatever if the end result is a schedule full of mercenary-like opponents with whom we have little in common? We can get that same schedule by going independent (and adding a home game or two every year, like ND) and no longer have to play lame conference games against ISU, KU, KSU, or Mizzou, for starters.

The problem with always acting in your own best interest is that sometimes, you end up with all the marbles, but no one left with whom to play Marbles.

“OU and OSU are making plans without Texas. Guarantee it.”

Please explain the rationale for OU to move to another conference and tell us which conference they are going to. It is doubtful that Stoops wants to move to the SEC because it will be harder to get to a BCS or MNC game. The Big 10 won’t have OU. The PAC did not want OU without Texas. OU isn’t going anywhere.

West Virginia’s culture may be more SEC than Big 12, but why should Texas join a conference full of schools like West Virginia?

If it were full of schools like West Virginia — assume you’re talking academics here — I probably would agree. But it’s not.

OU and OSU are making plans without Texas. Guarantee it.

Huh? Didn’t David Boren try that, only to get slapped down?

For those ragging on adding hillbillies to the conference I should remind you we had hillbillies in the same conference as us for 75 years and had a great rivalry with them. A lot of people have even been wishing we could get those hillbilllies back.

I transferred to Fort Worth, months later TCU is added to the B12. I was just transferred to WV, and a few weeks later WVU joins. Sorry, but I won’t transfer to northern Indiana. Are you interested in Vanderbilt or Georgia Tech?

Do whatever it takes to keep our LHN, for it will be a game changer.

Because the LHN will be a game changer, no other conference will allow it, and the BIG12 only does so because we are the kingmaker of this conference.

Adding TCU and West Virginia are not upgrades in my opinion, but it is enough to keep the Big12 alive, at least for 6 more years, which is what the LHN needs to grow.

The side benefit of this is the destruction of the Big East, which carries a lottery ticket of grabbing Notre Dame’s olympic sports. Later on, add a Louisville and Cinn and you got an instant Notre Dame foursome. And who would take Notre Dame’s place during the football season, you ask? BYU… who joins us just for football. Such perfect irony to have the Catholics and Mormons be coupled up!

As soon as LHN enters kindergarten age, all the college sports world will know the power of the LHN Deathstar, from a recruiting, money, prestige, and branding perspective. While all will lust after it, only an Elite few will actually be able to build one of their own, and even better, only one conference will accept Deathstar owners, the federalist states of the Big 12.

Feel the force.

C’mon down Notre Dame.

The force is strong with Volibolero.

I can make a trade in Oxycontin and Xanax to pay for my Morgantown road trips. What’s wrong with that?

Cincinnatus FTW. I know I said in a previous thread that a conference with an expanded footprint is preferrable, but I don’t see what WV brings other than a decent football team. Compared to Mizzou WV is weaker academically and their fanbase has the reputation of being couch-burning drunken louts. Big thumbs down IMO. Why don’t we just blow up this patched together conference and go independent already?

The addition of WVU should be great for D.C. and northern Virginia Longhorn fans. West Virginia may not be big, population-wise, but the nearby DC/VA/MD TV markets should be a very nice addition to the conference in terms of eyeballs.

For those worried about the 1,000-mile travel distance to Morgantown and those who scoff at WVU’s academics, look on the bright side… the increased travel times (to other Big 12 schools) shouldn’t hurt WVU’s student-athletes too much.

Rather than
1. arguing over upgrades vs. even trades
2. discussing the socioeconomic standing of fan bases
3. pontificating over media orgs content growth

We should instead be
1. celebrating the dismantling of weak competition (Big East)
2. anticipating the addition of the ONLY OTHER kingmaker in this paradigm (Notre Dame)
3. promoting the strengthening of Texas’ current growth engine (LHN) and
4. using our immense national platform to replace the foolishness that is the BCS with the inevitability of FBS playoffs!!

You don’t know the power of the dark side.

http://www.moviemobsters.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/deliverance_imagelarge.jpg

Bob in Houston -

The SEC should rename its divisions Southern Genteel and Trailor Park Trash. West Virginia is just one game a year. Being in a division with Alabama, LSU, A&M, Arkansas, and the Mississippi schools - that’s like dying and going to hell.

John Galt,

“using our immense national platform to replace the foolishness that is the BCS with the inevitability of FBS playoffs!!”

Tell us more how this will work. I don’t get the impression that DeLoss is into a post season playoff.

How anyone can believe the Big12 is a powerhouse conference with any upside at all is beyond comprehension. Where is El Cohiba Grande when his credibility is on the line?

Boise St has paid its dues. They’ve won consistently with mostly 2 and 3 star players. They have beaten good schools like OU, TCU, Virginia Tech, and Georgia. The question is not if Boise St is deserving of the Big 12, but rather is the Big 12 deserving of Boise St. They could walk into any football stadium in the country today and perhaps only a handful at most could defeat them. That’s a better than multi-trillion dollar, 4 to 5 star, under-performing Texas could do. It probably won’t happen, but I wish Boise St plays Alabama for the National Championship or perhaps LSU or Stanford(Rose Bowl). They deserve a shot against anyone one of those. I truly think Texas and OU are afraid of them and don’t want to play them. That’s why they aren’t invited to join the Big 12.

Midas - You do realize that Deliverance wasn’t set in West Virginia don’t you? It was Georgia. And if you want to associate that movie with West Virginia you could easily make the same association with Arkansas, our former longtime rival and a school many wished we could steal from the SEC back into our conference..

How anyone can believe the Big12 is a powerhouse conference with any upside at all is beyond comprehension. Where is El Cohiba Grande when his credibility is on the line?

Yeah, those 3 top ten teams and 6 top 25 (excluding A&M and including WVU) our of 10 is pretty weak stuff. It’s hard to see any silver lining in that.

Kafka,

Pretty sure Dodds is one of the few big program ADs who is on record as supporting a playoff system.

Fanatico said:
“Boise St has paid its dues. They’ve won consistently with mostly 2 and 3 star players. They have beaten good schools like OU, TCU, Virginia Tech, and Georgia. The question is not if Boise St is deserving of the Big 12, but rather is the Big 12 deserving of Boise St. They could walk into any football stadium in the country today and perhaps only a handful at most could defeat them. That’s a better than multi-trillion dollar, 4 to 5 star, under-performing Texas could do. It probably won’t happen, but I wish Boise St plays Alabama for the National Championship or perhaps LSU or Stanford(Rose Bowl). They deserve a shot against anyone one of those. I truly think Texas and OU are afraid of them and don’t want to play them. That’s why they aren’t invited to join the Big 12.”

The mojo of Boise State is Chris Petersen. Once he leaves, the future of Boise State dims. Here’s a compromise solution: hire Chris Petersen to replace Mack when Mack rides off into the sunset.

I would feel better about it if I thought it would do what John Galt said. But I think the Big XII is a dead conference walking, with any team with another option (excepting Texas, apparently) jumping ship at the first available opportunity. Watch for OU and OK State jumping to the SEC within 3 years, I bet. And there is no guarantee that ND moves their non-revenue sports here, especially to a weaken conference. ND could just decide to form a conference with the other non-football members of the Big East, it would make more sense geographically. And I can’t tell you how the LHN looks because I can’t get it in the home city of the University. For a dark lord of the Sith Darth DeLoss sure has fucked this up.

Big Ern,

Thanks, that is great to know.

Kafka,

DeLoss will not lead this. DeLoss’ days are numbered as are Mack’s. DeLoss wants to see Texas through the next 5 years and be assured that
a) LHN is not just viable but game changing
b) Texas is in a position of conference strength (whether that’s the Big12 or not)

Beyond that, DeLoss has no desire to be Texas AD for 15 years. He would have retired by now if the B1G expansion hadn’t occurred when it did.

Expansion is the inevitable piece of this. The B1G was going to 12 teams no matter what. PAC was going to 12 teams no matter what. It just so happened that both did that via a Big12 member. Now that the dominoes have started, the natural conclusion (as with any business acquisition) is consolidation of power and market share. The Big12 had 2 options: 1) dissolve 2) expand. Dissolution looked imminent (twice). Expansion is the only other option. The end game is still consolidation (super conferences). At that point, the tradition that ties college football to antiquated notions of championship determination has been altered/compromised/skewed to the point that playoffs not only are more “palatable” amongst the old guard but essentially the only rational conclusion.

My earlier post was a little grandiose in Texas’ posturing to make this happen but I still believe the ultimate drivers of the new paradigm in college football are a handful of college football power brokers (or as Volibolero correctly put it “Kingmakers”): Texas, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Alabama, USC, Florida. For those of you that know you’re English history, I think Texas could be Neville and Austin is Warwick Castle.

Fanatico - I really like Boise too, but the two questions I see are

1) Their stadium currently only seats ~35,000. They have expansion plans to I think ~48,000, but that’s a ways down the road. It seems to me they really need to be in the 50,000+ range and able to fill it most games.
2) Does the program have long term viability? Is this a situation where when Chris Petersen leaves the program takes a dive? Is it the program or the coach that is creating their current success?

Link below:

hxxp://www.businessinsider.com/texas-ad-advocates-for-college-football-playoff—wheres-the-media-coverage-2011-9

That West Virginia blog is pretty good. Here’s a couple of headlines:

about Mizzou joining the SEC: “Hostage Crisis Continues: Kittens Milk it For All it’s Worth”

about West Virginia joining the Big 12: “At Long Last: West Virginia to Settle the Score Against Iowa State”

Kafka said, “The mojo of Boise State is Chris Petersen. Once he leaves, the future of Boise State dims. Here’s a compromise solution: hire Chris Petersen to replace Mack when Mack rides off into the sunset.”

I would agree Petersen is the first to be credited with Boise St’s success, but the players must actually execute as well. So, together, they make the equation work. But, yes, in regards to Peterson coaching at UT, that would be my first choice. However, that’s something in the distant future. Like it or not, Mack isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. I see him as Longhorn CEO for the next 5 to 15 years. Especially since the Horns could possibly win a couple more Championships during that time.

John Galt,

Good stuff but:

• DeLoss said he wants the Big 12 to stay at 10 teams.
• If the Big 12 was going to get bigger than 10 teams wouldn’t they have already made some offers (the longer the Big 12 waits, the fewer options are available)?
• A bigger conference means splitting the financial and power pies into more slices (which is not what Texas wants).
• As long as the Big 12-2 is an AQ conference, what is the motivation to get bigger?

Maybe what you are thinking is that the expanded playoff will just be 4 teams and the super conferences will AQ into the playoff. SC’s would include Big 12, SEC, PAC, and Big 10. I don’t see the other div 1 schools accepting that since it would be grossly unfair. An 8 team playoff would be fair but then there would be no motivation to have super conferences.

It would be awesome to have a post season playoff to determine the champ. How do you see that process unfolding to make that happen?

John Galt said: October 25th, 2011 at 2:09 pm

“The force is strong with Volibolero.”

And the myopia is strong in so many others. Good post Volibolero.

Bring on Notre Dame in all non-football sports and promise them 3 games against Big XII schools in Austin, Norman or NFL stadiums (Soldier/Arrowhead/Reliant/Jerryworld), with 2-3 more in South Bend every year.

Done and done.

In regards to Boise St’s stadium capacity:

“In late August 2010, new expansion plans were revealed for Bronco Stadium. The first stages will include adding a new facility to the north end-zone, which will house the football offices, weight room, training room, equipment room and locker room. This would also include a 13,200 seat grandstand. The later stages of the expansion plan include: removing the track, lowering the field, and adding 3,300 seats in front of the first deck of the stadium; completing the south end-zone horseshoe; building an east side sky-box; and renovating the east side concourse. The expansions may be divided up into as many as six phases. The total cost for all planned expansions is around $100 million. The total seating capacity for a fully expanded Bronco Stadium is estimated to be around 53,000.The Boise State athletic director aims to have the north end-zone complex open in time for the 2013 season.”

I agree with John Galt that Mack won’t be coaching for much longer. He is 60 years old, has more money than God, and is a well balanced, sane individual. Pretty soon his wife is going to figure out that the sooner Mack retires, the less likely Mack is to die (relatively) young from a stress induced heart attack and the sooner Mack and Sally can start traveling the world, enjoying the grandkids, and just relax.

Right now, somewhere……Kirk Bohls is doing the Riverdance.

And, what about Texas and Boise St playing at a neutral site like Arizona or Denver? Oh well, won’t happen. Sorry Boise, best head to the Big East and kick ass over there.

Fanatico - Thanks. I think that’s where I’d gotten my info. My memory was off a bit. Their expansion plan is indeed for 50,000+ (53,000 to be exact). However, the first phase won’t be done until 2013 and that gets them to ~47,000 which to me is borderline. The timeline for the additional expansions seems to be a number of years away.

Sorry Boise, best head to the Big East and kick ass over there.

They may have second thoughts. If WVU leaves there’s not much left to base a BCS AQ on for the BigEast and I think Boise knows that. They’d have to balance the risk that the Big East disintegrates or loses its AQ and they’re stuck in lousy league with huge travel costs and no rivalries, versus staying in the MWC and hoping to eventually find another way into a BCS conference (maybe Big12 or PAC someday).

maroon carrots:

Excellent points… Life in the SEC West would be like Groundhog Day.

Still think Texas eventually ends up there… but not for a long, long time.

A part of me will die if the Longhorns every play a game on that god forsaken blue field. That alone leads me to oppose Boise State on general principle. At this point, they have achieved football respectability - it is way past time to let go of that ugly, blue publicity stunt. It would be an opportune time to do it, what with the stadium renovations and all that.

I am being serious as a heart attack here. Games on that fucked up blue field are completely unwatchable on TV. My cones, rods and retinas literally revolt physically if I even attempt it. That said, I would strongly prefer Air Force to Boise if we’re going west and can’t work it out with BYU.

I personally think Boise St should hang out and wait for the Pac-12 to go to 16. I don’t particularly like the idea of super conferences, but it does still seem to be where everything is going to end up. If it happens, get ready to add schools like Memphis, Cincinnati, Central Florida and Southern Miss to whatever the Big XII is at that point in time.

You know what this means? It means Holgerson gets to party with the coeds in Stoolwater again.

And now we’ve traded Mizzou’s Kansas City and St Louis tv sets for, hell, I don’t even know where West Virginia’s tv sets are….

I hear all 6 are on or at least near lovely back porches with considerable roof coverage.

Felonious: AFA isn’t coming. AD respects the B12, doesn’t want his players in it.

Haahaa! An aggie just made a redneck joke. Ag96 better get used to shacks with back porch tv sets and Deliverance style sodomy.

Nunna Yo Bizness, I hear what you are saying. Appreciate your thoughts.

Note to self: Well, I guess Texas will just continue playing those formidable conference and non-conference teams like Iowa St, Kansas, Rice, North Texas, UTEP, New Mexico, New Mexico State, Louisiana Monroe, UCF, etc… They’re more UT’s “type” of opponents, I get it. Hey, a win is a win, right? So, the lesson is that it doesn’t matter who your opponents are, as long as we Hook’em, right? … (long sigh)…

In terms of football alone, the B12-? is definitely stronger with the addition of WVU. Won’t speak about other factors.

Why does Big East football disintegration affect Notre Dame? They’re not a football member. Aren’t the non-football playing members of the Big East, which includes a bunch of Catholic schools, a perfectly good fit for Notre Dame’s non-football sports?

I’ve read this point over and over, so please tell me what I’m missing.

Oh, and if we lose the Missouri conference game for 2012 and 2013, but don’t add WVU until 2014, what are the chances we re-up the Aggie game for two more years?

Taking WVU keeps them away from the SEC and forces the
SEC’s hand in taking Mizzou - this is all a very clever move by the Big 12.

We will next take Louisville and Cincinnati and form a two division conference - East and West. This helps alleviate the travel problem and collapses the Big East releasing WVY, Louie and Cincy from all exit penalties and the 27 month wait period.

It is all very clear now

I think I am going to start following whatever they call DII now and leave all this to Bill Hicks’ loathed marketers and advertisers, adults who wear jerseys to games, and Colin Cowherd.

Aggie trash talking West Virginia - a school with considerably more football success is hilarious.

I’m trying to parse the logic that West Virginia is the key to Notre Dame.

Fairly certain the opposite is the case.

Lot of whistling by the graveyard by the faithful.

Why does Big East football disintegration affect Notre Dame? They’re not a football member. Aren’t the non-football playing members of the Big East, which includes a bunch of Catholic schools, a perfectly good fit for Notre Dame’s non-football sports?

There also was a commitment by ND to play football games against BE teams (that apparently was not completely fulfilled, but I digress). That’s obviously affected.

As for the other sports, the idea of a Catholic basketball conference has been around for decades (going back at least to the ’70s). All of those schools (and others) might have been interested, but Notre Dame — a true independent at that time — definitely was not.

Black Scholes: I don’t think there’s a serious link between ND and WVU either.

“ColoradoAg said: October 25th, 2011 at 11:35 am

cinncinatus -

I think Notre Dame sends non-football to the ACC"

Nope!

Lots of strange opinions here. Morgantown is practically in the state of Pennsylvania, which has more real football fans than the entirety of Missouri, from high school on up so I’m not sure how we’ve lost anything as far as media exposure. It also has a lot of very good high school players to be recruited.

Aggy and Missouri are gone and the LHN didn’t have a god damned thing to do with either of them leaving. Is the B1G stronger in football than us? Is the Pac 12? I don’t get all the hysterical sobbing about how weak our conference is going to be going forward. At ;least for now, we don’t want to bring in some glorified high school just for the sake of getting to 12 teams. A Big 12 with WVU and with ND in non-revenue sports and playing multiple games with Big 12 competition in football is good. This conference is not a bunch of misfit toys. The schools that remain from the original Big 12 are as close geographically as any other and now more so than the SEC and the Pac 12. Yeah, we really got fucked when they plucked Colorado out from under us.

All the whiny titty babies are now gone. Get over it. And we are getting a school that wants to be here, has won two BCS games in recent years and is kickass in basketball. It is also located in the midst of the Eastern TV market (with its Eastern biased media) and borders on a geographical hotbed of high school football talent.

the big 12ish is upgrading football-wise and downgrading academically while the sec is upgrading academically and downgrading football-wise.

Clearly, the Big12 commish did not read Hucks essay on the design of the ideal conference.

yeh,
All part of Slive’s grand scheme to lure Texas and OU to the sec west. Alabama and Auburn go east and were left with OU, LSU, aggy, Arky, mizzou, ole miss and msu every year.

Jake nails it, as usual.

Some whiny bitches need to realize that just because we might be sharing a conference with WVU, no one’s gonna make you move to West Virginia. Also, WVU is not demographically anything like West Virginia, beyond being mostly white. It’s a common safety/party school for East Coast suburbanites who want to take a brief hiatus to the hills and be able to tell their future pals that they once drank moonshine in the Appalachian foothills while neglecting to mention that it was at a frat party. Normal college kids, in other words.

But none of that should be my concern. The only thing I care about is, can they play football and basketball? Are their teams fun to watch? And is there some easy way to rub it in their fans’ noses when we clobber ‘em? Yes and yes and yes and yes. I’m down with it.

Jake - Great post as usual. You’re right on all points.

Just to further emphasize the geography aspect. The Spencer Hall article linked in the original article mentions driving (4 hours) from DC, which isn’t terrible. However, it’s way closer to Pittsburgh for people travelling there. It’s only a 1.5 hour drive. As you said it’s just across the border from Pennsylvania and only barely in West Virginia.

Having been to Lincoln I would happily give Morgatown a shot. I agree there are some strange opinions here. Yeah Kansas City and St Louis are bigger tv markets but the interest, impact and useful exposure for WV might be even greater

Yeh, sounds good to me

Nunna is right that this is a situation where WVU is the best possible option at this time and the only an option if and when Missouri leaves for the SEC. Who else could you possible add that brings a solid football and basketball program?

Yes, they are a long ways away from the rest of the conference and I think this is indeed a “temporary” situation, but if not WVU then whom?

No school in the Big Ten and SEC are going to leave the money and the stability of their conferences for the uncertainty of the Big XII. I can’t believe Memphis was actually mentioned and I am waiting for Tulane. Look, if you suck in a bad conference and really aren’t trying to even be average why in the world do people think these schools are all of sudden going to make a decision to even try to be decent in a much more difficult conference?

This is the reason I laugh when people say UH deserves to be in a AQC playing the #116 ranked schedule in a glorified high school stadium with bad support facilities.

In regards to why make this move if you are WVU I can only give you my thoughts when TCU was heading to the Big East. It gave us a spot in a AQC and in the future I do believe that is going to be critical. WVU is not wanted by the ACC, the Big Ten doesn’t want them, I actually think they fit in the SEC as a balance geographically, but for some reason the SEC seems to want to overload the western half of their conference, and I don’t think the Big East is going to survive.

The wild cards there to me are first ESPN. They need games to fill the slots on their multiple channels and I can’t see their letting the Big East fall without some help. Problem is the proposed combination of the remaining Big East football schools, the military academies, and a few select CUSA and MWC schools is a pile of shit that no one want to watch now.

Aside from the Army-Navy game how many people really care when the service academies play? How many people who didn’t have money on the game really watched the USM-SMU dyslexia bowl? How many people really want to watch Boise play UConn?

The second wild card is the basketball “only” schools in the Big East. Georgetown, Villanova, St. John’s, Seton Hall, Marquette, DePaul, and ND is still a very nice collection of basketball schools. Rutgers, Temple, and UConn can’t survive as independents, but their basketball programs are more profitable and aside from the egoes of some alums how does going down in class in football truly hurt programs many people don’t really notice?

Finally, the why doesn’t Texas just go independent card? Simple, every other sport other than football needs a conference and does anyone who thinks Texas should do this truly believe the Big XII would let Texas stay in for every other sport outside of football?

Road trips are great, just plan ahead before you go. No rush that way.

So the people who wanted the Pac-16 cited academics and called everyone who disagreed with them (even marginall)y whiny bitches. Now we’ve got a B?-First movement - screw the academics - and everyone who disagrees with them (even marginally) gets called a whiny bitch.

At least part of this process retains some consistency. Unfortunately, it’s not the logical or rational part.

B12 has real options and real questions going forward, as with all substantive changes. I’m getting tired of all the macho posturing. It’s only semi-comical when directed at an interloper. It’s just tedious when it gets intramural.

Big East leftovers. Throw on some ketchup, sprinkle some cheese, pop it under a broiler, and it will be sort of tasty straight out of the oven. But it’s still last week’s meatloaf.

WVU is good (sometimes) at football and decent at basketball…beyond that they don’t bring anything else to the table. I don’t understand this type of move.

Their network region does NOT add many TVs. They aren’t heavy in coverage on the East Coast or the Great Lakes region. Nobody in the SEC watches them. The midwest sure as hell doesn’t watch them. The pacific coast has few to zero WVU alumni unless there is the occasional one escaping the God awful delusional WV area/mindset.

Our academic standings in the BIG 12-insert number here, will now take a huge hit. WVU and TCU combined may equal aggie but then we still lost Mizzou. No way around that.

They might, and I mean MIGHT, sustain a good football program for a while. That is way up in the air now though…remember a Big East BCS team isn’t so bueno compared to the other conferences and their BCS team that got in.

Only good part would be going to Morgantown to party with Dana himself…I would kill to party with that guy!

I am with Brickhorn on this one…what a clusterfuck this has turned out to be.

Jake has nailed it again

Furthermore, no one is going to give a shit about WVU’s academic standing when Johnathon Grays ass is crossing their goal line.

It’s true that travel for the non-revenue teams like swimming or soccer is excessive.

But I think this will be alleviated when the Big 12 expands again (and it will) and takes Louisville and Cincinnati. This will result in actually have 12 teams in the Big 12 and then will split into two divisions - East and West. Frankly, I think this was the plan when the Big XII took WVU becasue it makes geographical sense - which make $ sense.

I think we will see this and see it soon:

EAST DIVISION
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowas State
West Virginia
Louisville
Cincinnati

WEST DIVISION
OU
Okie Lite
Texas Tech
Texas
Baylor
TCU

If, later on down the road, ND and/orBYU are added this will make our 14 team conference and it will be good.

STLaw - why do you and brickhorn call this a clusterfuck? You would really prefer the PAC 10? Really? How about the ACC? Or the Moutain West. How about the Big East?

I love what the BigXII is doing - we are moving towards real solidarity with teams that really want to belong. There is money to be made as well and I mean LIQUID! You don’t like money?

Nebraska, Missouri and, for sure, tAMU have always been whiners and mal-contents. And no one gave a shit about CU.
Good riddance to the fuckers - who needs them?

Last gasp of a dying conference IMO. Who wants to go to West Virginia—for anything?

Why does Big East football disintegration affect Notre Dame? They’re not a football member. Aren’t the non-football playing members of the Big East, which includes a bunch of Catholic schools, a perfectly good fit for Notre Dame’s non-football sports?

(1) As previously mentioned, ND has no interest in its non-football sports belonging to a parochial basketball conference, and that’s what the Big East is becoming with the departures of Syracuse, Pitt, UConn (if they can), and WVU. Leaving aside the Catholic issue, the surviving Big East will be a weaker basketball conference and a complete non-starter for women’s sports, some of which (esp. b-ball and soccer) are a big deal for ND.

(2) ND’s non-football alliance includes playing between one and three Big East teams in football each year to provide them with East Coast exposure, but that becomes moot if the Big East adds Boise, SMU, and other similar programs, making the conference no longer Big nor East. (This is where the ACC may trump the Big XII, if not for #3 below).

(3) ND would love to re-establish a stronger football recruiting presence in Texas; witness their recent game against Wash. St. in San Antonio, and a scheduled game in 2013 vs. Arizona State in JerryWorld. Joining the Big XII in non-football sports would help with football recruiting.

(4) Don’t underestimate the pull of the Dodds-Swarbrick relationship. Dodds wanted Swarbrick to run the Big XII, and both of them have similar views of the future of college athletics.

No thanks, i will keep the 10 team round robin schedule. No need to add crap football teams just to fill out a 12 team conference. Stabilize the 10 teams and later go after some good teams if expansion is in the cards. There will always be some teams that think the grass is greener someplace else. Basketball only sells at tournament time.

An interesting dynamic to me is that the Big12 has already selected and voted on WVU before Mizzou has even officially decided. We’ve told Mizzou we’d like them to stay, but sent the message that if they’re leaving they’re easily replaced. There won’t wailing and gnashing of teeth about their departure.

It’s kind of like having a wife who isn’t much fun in the sack and is telling you she might leave for a guy with better income. You tell her she doesn’t have to leave, but if she does there’s this cute nympho waiting for you to pop the question. Meanwhile if the other guy gets your wife he better not have much in the way expectations for output.

To the comment about Missouri having no sucsess before Pinkel, need to check history. Dan Devine lead them to many great years. After that many great players in the 70’s and 80’s that had far better teams than Pinkel who schedules his way to a good record. Mizzou basketball has solid but choking history. Norm Stewart = Rick Barnes, talent, good records, lots of NCAA and a lot of NCAA choking. Mizzou delivers only solid TV markets besides Texas in conference. If picking straight football go Boise State.

Snide,

We sure as hell better not end up with your proposed East-West split, once again trapping the two best football programs in the same division and rendering the Big 12 conf championship game a West-bitchslaps-the-East-again steam pile of bleh every year.

Heck, one could argue that the best 3-4 programs, on average, would be in the same division.

STLaw – why do you and brickhorn call this a clusterfuck? You would really prefer the PAC 10? Really? How about the ACC?

I’m really having to agree at this point. I was in favor of a PAC move a few weeks ago or the more improbable B1G. However, the last few weeks I’ve seen the Big12 still actually has a very strong base of football programs with strong regional and cultural ties.

Meanwhile the PAC (which would have been a problem in terms of travel and timezones) is showing themselves to be mostly a big steaming pile of crap. The addition of CU and Utah has added nothing more than a couple of really bad programs to go along with WASU and OSU. The B1G hasn’t been considered on a par with the SEC either for a long time. Meanwhile the Big12 by most objective measures is either the best conference this year or the equal of the SEC.

We sure as hell better not end up with your proposed East-West split, once again trapping the two best football programs in the same division and rendering the Big 12 conf championship game a West-bitchslaps-the-East-again steam pile of bleh every year.

Yeah I’m of the opinion that if the Big12 does go back to 12 teams that they put Texas and OU in different divisions but schedule like the PAC currently does. Have two teams in the other division as permanent opponent (Tex-OU for one) and two other games against the other division that rotate every other year. This way you play 5 games in your division and 4 in the other for 9 conference games, and you still play every team in the other division every two years like we used to (or every year for the permanent opponents).

- BSU was good prior to Peterson -

- in modern time TCU was bad before Patterson

http://twitter.com/#!/Recruitocosm

Any one see the tweeting back and forth between Chip Brown and Recruitocosm (JS..I assume) Chip’s not too happy.

Nunn Yo Business and Abe Lemons (are you really?)

My model was strictly set up to alleviate travel as much as possible. I agree that the football power would be weighted towards the “west” division.
Tht being said - give me a better scenario for I fully belkieve that Louie and Cincy will join the Big 12.
If you do split Texas and OU, you will also have to brother-in-law Okie lite with them.
And, you take the chance that OU & Texas would have to play each other twice in the same year - assuming there is a CC game.
Football power is fluid and who is to say that WVU or Kansas State won’t become dominate anyway?

Dodds said nix to Pac44 because he didn’t want his softballers on airplanes all their lives. WVU. Are you shittin me? If the situation were reversed, you Mountaineer D-bags would be lovin you some Mizzou. I can hear it now…Mizzou is such a great academic fit, Mizzou means less travel, Mizzou brings St.louis and KC tv’s, Mizzou has such a strong women’s crew. Dumb asses.

I like the rumor that ND will throw it’s non-revenue teams into the Big 12. Not so much for taday as much as I think this will translate to an additional expansion in the future. This assumes we are already a 12 team conference however, I say this becasue I don’t think ND will be able to withstand the financial pressures and the continuing demise of it’s brand and will be forced to consider going conference affilation for it’s football.
Now, we are looking at a 14 team conference that might include ND and BYU.
I don’t think this is wishful thinking either - too many dominoes are starting to fall.

I mean, my God, who would have thought that WVU would be in the Big 12 a couple of years ago?

“Jesus. The Big 12 is college football’s Island of Misfit Toys. The conference is now a rag-tag assortment of free agent programs with no regional or cultural ties to each other. I hope this duct-taped mess of a league is just a very short-term bridge to Pac-16 membership.

What a giant clusterfuck conference realignment has turned out to be."

i agree with every word of this…

“That being said – give me a better scenario for I fully believe that Louie and Cincy will join the Big 12…If you do split Texas and OU, you will also have to brother-in-law Okie lite with them.” For shits & grins:
   Sunshine division = UT, TCU, Baylor, KU, Tech, and K-State
   Moonshine division = OU, OSU, WVa, Louie, Cincy, and ISU

“And, you take the chance that OU & Texas would have to play each other twice in the same year – assuming there is a CC game.” I’ll takes me chances.

“Football power is fluid and who is to say that WVU or Kansas State won’t become dominate anyway?” Shucks, that’s a great reason to bunch all the best programs in one division. It’s not who, but what:
    (1) Common sense.
    (2) Laws of nature (i.e., Bill Snyder will not live/ coach forever; KSU will return to being college football wasteland 3-5 years later).
    (3) Economic realities (i.e., why hasn’t WVa ever won or really threatened to win the MNC? If a coach does will the program to the pinnacle, he’d be hired out of there and WVa would revert to mean).

TX Pride, I don’t tweet, so I can’t follow. Did Chip get another DWI and try to blame it on The Jesus?

Jake,

Not sure if you saw orangebloods article today talking about Notre Dame considering the Big 12 in non-football sports, and how they were the first to break the story. I saw that and laughed and wondered what Jesus thought. Well…I’m assuming Jesus posted this on twitter below, with a link from August 23 of the Cigar comments about Notre Dame.

“RecruitocosmRecruitocosm
Laughing at the “First to break Notre Dame / Big 12 partnership” from @chipbrownOB. Thanks for reading, Chip. http://bit.ly/n9bSGj
1 hour ago"

Chip Brown who appears to have since removed these posts from his account, chimed in sarcastically congratulating JS on his “breaking” story, stating that Jesus’ Case comments were “libelous”.

Jesus Responded…

“RecruitocosmRecruitocosm
@ChipBrownOB It’s not libel if it’s true. McCoy tapped out. Find better sources. Or transcribe a press release and call it an exclusive.
1 hour ago”

 Chip then stated that he hated how people were “demonizing” a student-athlete who is “admired by the coaches and his teammates for no reason”.

Pretty entertaining to say the least. I believe Chip got owned today by Jesus and the Cigar. Glad Jesus called him out on it.

Maybe this is just part of a super secret Suck for Luck strategy for Texas?

Well, at least the B12 isn’t adding yet another Texas team from the failed SWC.

Tex,

You aren’t completely right about TCU. While Fran has a great deal of faults remember that he was the coach in charge when TCU started to it’s slow climb back, under Sullivan we actually went to a bowl and were part of that 4 or 5 way tie for the SWC in the 90’s, and Jim Wacker actually had made progress before his program was punished for the sins committed by the prior staff even though Wacker had suspended all of the offending players at time you didn’t do that and fall upon the graces of the NCAA.

Not that it makes a damn bit of difference, but I’d like to see someone with the blog skills put together a poll to see how Texas fans feel about this. Most comments seem to run in the negative on this, but that may just be my perception because of my own feelings about it.

Frankly, I hate the idea on several accounts, but mainly for those already stated by others:

1. Travel
2. Location
3. Outside of football and basketball reputations…both earned under somewhat dubious coaching regimes…WVU adds no credibility to the conference.
4. Their fans…ok, not all of them, but at least a solid core…embrace an out-of-control holiganism normally (abnormally?) reserved for English soccer clubs. Yeah, it’s always fun to watch and read about them acting like fools, until you’re directly involved. I don’t think I’d show up in Morgantown wearning the burnt orange…and I’ve never been afraid to show up anywhere wearing burnt orange. Just ask my wife’s family who are a bunch of OU and OSU alums.

Outside of football and basketball reputations…both earned under somewhat dubious coaching regimes…

How so?

I see one violation in football (this past year, leading to the coach’s firing), and none in basketball since 1983.

John Cocktasting said: Dodds said nix to Pac44 because he didn’t want his softballers on airplanes all their lives. WVU. Are you shittin me? If the situation were reversed, you Mountaineer D-bags would be lovin you some Mizzou. I can hear it now…Mizzou is such a great academic fit, Mizzou means less travel, Mizzou brings St.louis and KC tv’s, Mizzou has such a strong women’s crew. Dumb asses.

John - We don’t get to pick between Mizzou and WVU. Mizzou (assuming they leave) is making their own decision to go. It’s not our choice. Yeah, if Mizzou was coming in they would have advantages over WVU, though longterm proven on the field performance wouldn’t be one of them. WVU has been and is the better football program.

The point is, given that Mizzou is leaving tell us who the better choice is than WVU. And don’t give us the “I want the PAC” shit, because that’s off the table for now. If you want to bitch and moan about past choices being wrong and not address the question of what we do now then fine, but don’t call us dumbasses because some of us are looking at how to make the best of the situation we are in now, whether we like how we got here or not. So, if you have a better program we can replace Mizzou with then please enlighten all of dumbasses.

Gman:
Texas alum here. Here is my opinion.

The following are the Top 25 poll finishes during the period 2000-2010:
TCU 9, WVU 6, NEB 6, Missouri 3, Colorado 2, A&M 1

Further, TCU & WVU have more combined BCS game wins than Colorado, Missouri, A&M, and NEB combined.

Some in SEC country feel the SEC actually took a back seat to the Big 12 in that the TCU-WVU combo seen as better than the A&M-Missouri combo.

I like the move - and would actually add two additional teams. Go, Big 12 !!!

Louisville is playing politics and trying to take WVU’s spot in the Big 12 according to a WVU beat writer.

Yeah, I was just about to post that link.

I was hoping to take the opportunity to use the word scuttlebutt, which I think has been extremely underutilized during the conference realignment drama. So there it is. Scuttlebutt.

Thanks, Tx Pride. Not that it’s a big deal, but I posted right after OU about the ND deal and how it could also involve a three game Big 12 schedule in football. Chip needs to sober up.

Also glad to see JS not backing off the Case story. I hate that it happened, but it’s no one’s fault but his and people need to grow a pair about it.

If we take Louisville over WVU that will significantl alter my outlook on this. I don’t want any city based schools. I’ve yet to see a single one that can fill a stadium AND provide a national or even regional fanbase. Even UofMiami which is the pinnacle of such programs can’t fill their stadium. That’s always been the knock on them. And outside of TheU none of them deliver any kind of TV ratings.

And when I say “city-bsed” school I’m not talking about UCLA or UTEP etc.; those are branches of a state university. I’m talking about Houston, Louisville, Cincinnati, etc.

“Some in SEC country feel the SEC actually took a back seat to the Big 12 in that the TCU-WVU combo seen as better than the A&M-Missouri combo.”

Living in SEC Country I can say that this is the case without a doubt. Alot of fans see A&M as a good fit and a decent football school but see TCU as a better football school based on “what have you done for me lately.”

No one that I have talked to wants Mizzou in the SEC and would much rather have WVU, VT or just about anyone else.

SEC fans only care about the quality of football and don’t muck it up with all of the other BS. They all know that TCU and WVU is a better combo than A&M and Mizzou. It is really that simple.

I don’t want any city based schools.

Too late—we’ve already added TCU. (Just because “Ft. Worth” doesn’t appear in its name doesn’t mean it isn’t so limited.) But I agree with your sentiment, even if it’s too late.

Unless I am unaware of some free Papa John’s pizza promotions that it provides to its fellow conference mates, L’ville does NOTHING for Big XII football. Criminy, I think I once saw L’ville play a game on a Tuesday—TUESDAY! That night should be reserved for 7th grade jr. high games.

But I repeat myself…

Too late–we’ve already added TCU. (Just because "Ft. Worth" doesn’t appear in its name doesn’t mean it isn’t so limited.) But I agree with your sentiment, even if it’s too late.

Yeah, in general I would agree regarding TCU, and SMU similarly. The one aspect I’ll give them some slack on is that they are technically religous based schools so they should (emphasis on should, not do) bring in a wider fanbase with some interest outside their metrolpolitan area simply due to religous affiliation. In practice, I don’t see much of that effect with them. Notre Dame, BYU, and Baylor are the only ones I can think of that really do bring in a significant external fanbase due to the religion aspect.

I’m not sure why people can’t figure out that conference realignment is about MONEY and TV SETS thru cable subscriptions/advertising thru CONFERENCE networks (NOT school networks like LHN) for football games.

It is NOT about how good football team X (fill in the blank) happens to be at the moment. Regardless of how good TCU or West Virginia or anyone else is, those kind of schools enjoy transitory success based solely on the luck they have in landing a good HC that other schools have overlooked. Just because those schools win games under that HC doesn’t meant they bring zillions of tv sets to the party for their games.

Again, this is NOT about how good one’s football team is. This is about tv sets, advertising points, and cable subscriptions to conference tv networks—-in other words, this is about MONEY, period.

The reason the Big 12 when it formed didn’t want TCU is because TCU sucked. And they will suck again when their HC leaves. They bring no $$$ to the conference network table.

Meanwhile, the SEC and ACC are hording tv sets while the Big 12 (read: Deloss) makes desperate and goofy moves to theoretically bolster the Big 12——because if he doesn’t, OU and OSU bolt, which screws the LHN.

The LHN depends on the Big 12’s survival for its existence. Trouble is, the Big 12 is already dead, and OU and OSU’s cigars are already reaching out to other conference’s cigars with the idea of a non-Longhorns play. What Deloss is doing with these TCU and West Virginia additions is like giving a terminally ill patient a hip replacement on their deathbed.

If you read this recent interview with A&M’s prez, you’ll see the LHN was very much in the forefront of their decision to bolt to the SEC.

http://www.12thmanfoundation.com/membership/12th-man-magazine/featured-article.aspx
 
http://www.12thmanfoundation.com/membership/12th-man-magazine/featured-article-(2).aspx
 
Mike Slive is outmanuevering everyone on this, and running circles around both Deloss and Larry Scott.

T Man-

Pretty much everything you said was wrong. You have been drinking the maroon koolaid in a big way.

And you can substitute “outmanuevering” with “lying to everyone’s face” and you about have it right.

Yeah, I heard about that Loftin interview. He’s full of shit.

“Last gasp of a dying conference IMO. Who wants to go to West Virginia–for anything?”

RS - Are you kidding? You prefer Collieville, Lubbock or Waco?

Besides, it’s about football, not partying.

U.S. at night from space

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/ag_in_tx/1e2f4469.gif

T Man, there is nothing in those two pages about the LHN being a reason for aTm to leave. The only mention is BowTie asking Larry Scott about how third tier rights would be handled in a PAC Whatever, then telling him that won’t fly at UT.

The other mention of money is BowTie’s comment about “have” and “have nots”, and how that condition is what destabilized the Big 12. So, his solution is to leave for a SEC which had a UA with $129M and a Vanderbilt with $49M in 09-10 revenues?

Those two pages were pseudo-rational reasons for what was an emotional decision, full of unattributed quotes and innuendo, vague enough to allow anyone to project their own biases onto those words, and find any reason they wanted. Most ags found something that made UT to be the bad guy — doesn’t mean it happened, or even that Loftin said it.

Paranoia runs deep, into your life it will creep.

True Justice: The day when the present SEC schools proclaim they’ve had their fill of the relentless whining from the Aggies and Mizzou.

It is NOT about how good football team X (fill in the blank) happens to be at the moment. Regardless of how good TCU or West Virginia or anyone else is, those kind of schools enjoy transitory success based solely on the luck they have in landing a good HC that other schools have overlooked.

T Man - I’ll start by addressing the above. I don’t know how old you are, but if you think WVU’s success stems only from RichRod then you either were too young or not paying attention when they were nationally relevant in the ‘90s and ’80s under Don Nehlon (that’s right a different coach). Furthermore, before the BigEast become a pile of manure West Virginia was on TV quite a bit all the way back to the early ’80s.

Trouble is, the Big 12 is already dead, and OU and OSU’s cigars are already reaching out to other conference’s cigars with the idea of a non-Longhorns play.

If you’re referring to the flirtation with the PAC, that’s dead. If there’s something new going on then please post a link so we can all share in this revelation.

Ag_in_Tx - Nice photoshop

T Man gotta be Aggie Rick. His posts have to be schtick — they’re too dumb to be real.

It is kind of funny that you can make out West Virginia in the original. Although Morgantown is actually visible as a sort of South Pittsburgh.

IQ quiz:

1. How many teams have left the Big 12 in the last four years?
+
2. Of those teams remaining in the Big 12, how many of those have worked on deals behind the scenes in the last four years to leave the Big 12?
+
3. How many Big 12 teams have threatened to sue fellow conference schools to legally force them to stay in the Big 12 when they no longer want to be there?

Now, compare the sum of 1, 2, and 3 above and compare it to how many teams have either left, or worked on deals behind the scenes to leave, or threatened to sue fellow schools who want to leave, the SEC, PAC, and BIG 10———combined?

The Big 12 is a corpse. Quit giving it gatorade.

T-Man,

I’m just gonna lay it out for you. You’re too stupid to be here.

Nowhere in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything even approaching a rational thought. We are all dumber for having read your posts. You score no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Hell yes the majority of teams in this conference have worked on deals behind the scenes. Why the hell wouldn’t they, when whiny bitches like the Ags and Missouri have rocked the foundation of the conference. If you found out there was a good chance you were going to be out of a job next week, you think you might start looking for another one behind the scenes? Oh wait, that’s assuming you actually have a job.

Most of the schools in this conference don’t WANT to go anywhere else. But just in case something happens….they gotta look out for #1.

Dumbass.

“Now, compare the sum of 1, 2, and 3 above and compare it to how many teams have either left, or worked on deals behind the scenes to leave, or threatened to sue fellow schools who want to leave, the SEC, PAC, and BIG 10——combined?”

With Missouri leaving most of our conference instability has been exported somewhere else. Texas A&M, Missouri and Nebraska were the three main sources of dissent within the Big 12 and now they have been replaced with teams looking forward to building the new conference. One can argue if West Virginia and TCU are as good as A&M, Missouri and Nebraska but the bottom line is now everyone remaining in the conference want this to work.

In other words 2/3 of our dysfunction has left to go to the SEC. The constant bitching and complaining about the LHN, revenue sharing or whatever ended the day all of these schools were replaced by schools who viewed the Big 12 as an upgrade over their current situation.

Huckleberry,

Yeah, when I had the idea for a photoshop, I pulled up thta pic and was surprised at how little modification was needed.

1. Teams want in to the SEC. Nobody wants to leave the SEC.

2. Teams want in to the PAC. We ourselves have tried to work deals to get into the PAC, including recently. Nobody wants to leave the PAC.

3. Teams want in to the Big 10. Nobody wants to leave the Big 10.

4. Teams want in to the ACC. Nobody wants to leave the ACC.

5. Lots of teams have wanted to leave the Big 12, including us recently. Many teams have in fact left. More teams will leave. The only teams wanting in to the Big 12 are afraid of their own conference dying due to #s 1, 2, 3, and 4 above. The Big 12 is the only conference where schools threaten to sue each other to force teams to stay against their will.

True or false?

Once upon a time, TMan worked at Acme Widgets. He shamelessly stole from Acme, pilfering whatever soft drinks and office supplies he could sneak out the door. Then, at a company event, he gets sloppy drunk, takes a shit on the floor and hits a co-worker in the eye with a beer bottle. After a quiet talking-to by Acme management, TMan moves on to a competing widget company, saying, “Man, that Acme company is FUCKED up. It’s employees steal, fight, file charges against each other, even take shits on the floor.”

For whatever its internal problems, Acme remained very, very glad that TMan was the problem of some other widget company.

The end.

Year in, year out, West Va is a .650 team. And 5-13 in their last 18 bowls. And those numbers are diluted because they’ve been playing in the lame Big East conference and before that as an Independent. And they’re close to Europe. Yawn.

T Man,

I’ll play the game.

I would respond by saying that all five of your statements are true. The problem with you is that you consider #5 to be the result of Texas being a bully, per your sarcastic reference to DeLoss Dodds running the Big XII. So now that I’ve answered your questions, why don’t you review these facts (provided by another OB poster), and counter likewise:

1. ATM’s greatest successes on the football field occurred during a period of blatant lying, cheating and corruption. Is that the fair competitive environment our ATM friends claims UT denies? No. UT did not force ATM to engage in systemic corruptions from its board of regents down to the assistant coaches.

2. UT suggested that the Big 12 form a network and its suggestion was rejected by the Big 12, including ATM.

3. UT suggested to ATM that the two schools form a network, but ATM rejected the offer. UT did not force ATM’s hand.

4. ATM was secretly negotiating with the SEC while proclaiming loyalty to the Big 12. UT had no hand it ATM’s duplicity.

5. UT did not drive NU from the Big 12, unless one considers its football dominance over NU. NU left for a variety of reasons, including the right to share in the Big 10 network revenues. Remember, NU was one of the members of the Big 12 which rejected the Big 12 network and which, like ATM, voted for UNEQUAL revenue sharing based on television appearances. UT did not make those decisions for NU.

6. CU left because by its own ineptitude, none of which was attributable to UT, its athletic department and programs were in shambles and destitute. CU left for the MONEY, not because UT drove them out.

7. Missouri has been toying with the idea of the Big 10 or SEC for decades. UT had nothing to do with that. A year ago, Missouri publicly stated its desire to leave the Big 12 for the Big 10, but was rejected. It was Missouri’s action which triggered the specter of instability which encouraged CU and NU to consider leaving. UT had nothing to do with Missouri’s decision a year ago.

IQ quiz:

1. How many teams have left the Big 12 in the last four years?

3

+
2. Of those teams remaining in the Big 12, how many of those have worked on deals behind the scenes in the last four years to leave the Big 12?

5, I think.

+
3. How many Big 12 teams have threatened to sue fellow conference schools to legally force them to stay in the Big 12 when they no longer want to be there

0. Retaining rights does not equal threatening to sue.

I get 8. What was the question again?

West Virginia and Louisville do not make sense geographically. Dodds said this was important, and it is.

I’d prefer Houston, Rice, Tulane, Air Force, or New Mexico. Any of these these programs would improve rapidly by joining the Big XII and would solidify our hold on the middle of the country and improve the conference’s prospects long term

I’d prefer Houston, Rice, Tulane, Air Force, or New Mexico.

If you put all of them together you still wouldn’t have a program that ESPN would allow in the Big 12.

With Missouri leaving most of our conference instability has been exported somewhere else.

Or more accurately, “teams with the ability to leave have been exported somewhere else.”

Other than OU (or maybe KU in hoops) no one left in the Big 12-2-1+1-1+1 has the ability to write their own ticket. You are now king of the lemmings.

Here are some interesting quotes from Bow Tie in the 2nd puff piece T Man linked:

“A&M doesn’t stand out as being well above the average in any measure.”

[Except buffoonery]

“We are not going to necessarily see huge TV revenue shifts from going to the SEC.”

[So it really wasn’t about the money?]

“I also want to add that we are working strategically on how to better exploit our third-tier rights and how to retain and have access to those in the SEC in ways that will really help our fan base locally here enjoy all of the athletics here, not just football.”

[But when UT wants to market its 3rd-tier rights, it is greedy & evil?]

" I think ultimately if you look today, no one is pointing a finger at us right now. There are fingers being pointed at others, but none at us."

[Don’t think so, Bubba, although the gomer campaign of misinformation - including this puff piece - sure helped.]

“We just didn’t appreciate the lack of collegiality we were dealing with in the Big 12. Everyone was always civil, but you just don’t feel like you were being treated fairly all the time. "

[1. Lying to your conference mates isn’t collegial in any sense.

2. A&M benefited from unequal revenue sharing & had a history of voting to retain the status quo.]

Year in, year out, West Va is a .650 team. And 5-13 in their last 18 bowls. And those numbers are diluted because they’ve been playing in the lame Big East conference and before that as an Independent. And they’re close to Europe. Yawn.

I’m going to feel dumber just bothering to respond to this kind of stupidity, but here goes.

Year in, year out, A&M is a .599 team (674–444–48). And 5-14 in their last 19 bowls. And those number are diluted because they spent a decade cheating and simultaneously beating up on a pathetic SWC. And they’re close to Louisiana. Yawn.

Year in, year out, Missouri is a .545 team (622–515–52). And 5-7 in their last 12 bowls (of course it took 3 decades to qualify for 12). And those numbers are pathetic because they spent decades fielding at best mediocre teams due to apathetic and disinterested fanbases within their region. And they’re close to Iowa. Yawn.

T Man,

I can tell you of at least one team that wants to leave the ACC, but I would hate to ruin such a strong and well thought out argument.

You put the rest of us to shame with your intellect and wit. Maybe Sailor will hand over the keys to the BC kingdom to you shortly.

I’ve noticed Tech and WV fans have already developed a strong bond in message board world.

ded - That’s because Lubbock and Morgantown are both places where visiting fans have disappeared with some amount of regularity.

I’m trying to imagine the hilarity that would ensue in night game between Tech and WV at either location.

Per sources on the hangup Louisville has created with regard to WVU joining the conference.

Link

A late push by Louisville has put political pressure on the Big 12 and opened the possibility of Louisville’s being the university that is admitted instead of West Virginia. Two people with direct knowledge of the situation said that lobbying by the Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnell, Republican of Kentucky, including to David Boren, the president of the University of Oklahoma and a former senator, helped slow West Virginia’s admittance to the Big 12.

Damned politicians once again. Aren’t Republicans the ones that always want government to stay out of everyone’s business? I didn’t drag politics into this topic, Mitch MConnell did.

Hey, lookit that - Boren fucking things up again.

I should have realized immediately that it was something like this. Boren just can’t help himself. He should have told his old buddy that the decision was made.

I’m not particularly enamored of WVU or Louisville, but they have to get it straight.

What leverage could McConnell have over Boren right now? That’s the bigger question.

WVU seems like a no-brainer if the choices are WVU and Louisville.

And when is Mizzou going to pull the trigger? Has to be before this weekend’s ESS EEE CEE love-fest with the aggies, right?

“Other than OU (or maybe KU in hoops) no one left in the Big 12-2-1+1-1+1 has the ability to write their own ticket. You are now king of the lemmings.”

Before you insult Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, West Virginia, Texas or TCU please understand that every single one of these schools is superior to A&M in every way, shape or form in college athletics.

So you are part of the SEC. That’s great. But at the end of the day you are still a meddling at best college athletic program and you have to live with that. None of these tangible benefits you think you will get from the SEC will happen if you do not win.

Do you understand that, Aggies?

You have to win. None if this conference stuff matters if you do not win. Do you think your odds of winning increased or decreased with this move?

I’m not particularly enamored of WVU or Louisville, but they have to get it straight.

Yeah, just when it looked like the Big12 was getting it’s act together and the remaining members working together. Now (thanks again Boren) it may have created a whole new topic of friction within the conference separated into the WVU and Louisville camps.

Re: WVU and Louisville. I’m sure somehow though certain schools and media are working on how to spin this as being the fault of Texas and the LHN.

Nunna,

Point on TCU having a religious affiliation and therefore should have a wider base of appeal than say UH. We are affiliated with the Disciples of Christ, but not governed by them and the Disciples of Christ as an organized body have less than a million members in the US (not exactly the Mormon or Catholic Churches).

Aside from the inclusion in the name the only real connection to religion as a whole on the campus is Brite Divinity School and while students were at one time required to take a 3-hour class in religion my choice of study was Eastern Religions.

Austin Ex,

Why do you think schools such as Tulane and Rice would all of a sudden give a damn about their football programs if included in the Big XII when they are not even competitive in the bad conferences they currently reside. UH for that matter still lags behind in terms of a stadium or facilities. At least TCU made the decision over 10 years ago to rebuild the program and we built the indoor practice facility, new locker room and weight room, and renovated the stadium because we felt it was needed and with our dollars instead of waiting for a conference hand out.

A-Tex,

I agree as to what possible leverage McConnell could have in this matter and if this is the biggest and most important thing he has to focus his time upon currently with the state of the economy his ass needs to be run out of office. I apologize if that came across political.

A-Tex, I doubt there’s any leverage, unless you count “Hey old buddy, can you do this for me?” as leverage.

As to the hold-up, with neither WVU or Louisville likely to escape in time for next year, I suspect the B12 is holding firm to keeping Missouri through 2012-2013 (or requiring the two-year departure charge), and Missouri doesn’t want to stay, doesn’t have the money, or both.

The Big East has been adamant about not waiving the 27 month notice requirement. Not a lawyer so I don’t know how legit that type of clause is, but when everyone agrees on it and then a few weeks later you are trying to cut and run I don’t see how you have a leg to stand on saying the requirement is unfair.

McConnell: “DB, if you want me to continue to swing those luxury boxes at the Derby every year for you and your lovely wife, you better do something about this West Virginia to the Big XII bullshit.”

Boren: “Really, Mitch. You’re going there? Judge Molly (she makes me call her that) just pre-ordered a $5,000 hat with the characters from Wind in the Willows dancing on the brim. She’ll have my nuts!”

McConnell: “Don’t give a flying fuck, Dave. Block this WVU vote, or your only seat at the Derby will be in the infield with the Louisville student body come May. Them’s commuter school kids, Dave. They will fuck. you. up.”

“Before you insult Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, West Virginia, Texas or TCU please understand that every single one of these schools is superior to A&M in every way, shape or form in college athletics.”

Add up all the NCAA championships won by all those schools over the last two years.

Compare that number ot those won by A&M.

Then defend your premise.

We don’t grab our balls in a synchronized fashion, never taken part in group masturbation as part of some homo-erotic quasi military ritual hoping to beat our rival, one of our most famous alumni associated with the program didn’t stand on the sideline and never actually get into the freaking game that he is revered for, and we don’t wait until we score in a football game to kiss our dates at the games.

Keep your titles in track and women’s basketball I really, really think I am okay with the trade off.

Hell, I’ll do it for you:

TCU - Rifle (2010) - 1
OU - 0
Texas - Men’s Swimming and Dvining (2010) - 1
OSU - Cross Country (2010) - 1
Kansas - 0
WVU - 0

Total = 3

Texas A&M - Men’s Golf (2009), Men’s outdoor track (2010, 2011), Women’s outdoor track (2010, 2011), women’s basketball (2011)

Total = 6

We don’t either, Davey. We don’t either.

But if it helps you sleep at night, you just keep believing whatever you like. I really don’t care one way or another.

Just curious Ag, but how much did you have to borrow from the general assets of the school to cover the cost of running this incredibly successful athletic program during this pinnacle of Aggie success?

If I am not mistaken we not only covered our costs, but paid for new locker rooms, weight rooms, stadium renovations, new baseball stadium, new tennis facilities, new dorms, and new student center.

Then again we are a school of over 8,000 so it is pretty easy to see why we were able to come up with the cash to cover all those projects.

Ag_in_Tx: Looks like a 0-0 tie to me.

Although he did not actually play in the game, his readiness to play symbolized the willingness of all Aggies to support their team to the point of actually entering the game. When the game ended in a 22-14 Aggie victory, Gill was the only man left standing on the sidelines for the Aggies. Gill later said, “I wish I could say that I went in and ran for the winning touchdown, but I did not. I simply stood by in case my team needed me.”52 A statue of E. King Gill stands to the north of Kyle Field to remind Aggies of their constant obligation to preserve the spirit of the 12th Man.52

Only the Ags get excited about a guy who never actually played.

You have Gil in your lore and we get a trophy handed out to the top quarterback in the nation.

Keep the national title in bass fishing as well.

“A late push by Louisville has put political pressure on the Big 12 and opened the possibility of Louisville’s being the university that is admitted instead of West Virginia. Two people with direct knowledge of the situation said that lobbying by the Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnell, Republican of Kentucky, including to David Boren, the president of the University of Oklahoma and a former senator, helped slow West Virginia’s admittance to the Big 12.”

Can we use this to our advantage?

McConnell is a graduate of Louisville. Speaker of the House Boehner represents a Cincinnati congressional district. David Boren was a Senate Democrat. Maybe these guys can make it worthwhile for the Big 12 to take Louisville, Cincinnati, and West Virginia.

Good to see that win the Ags join the SEC next year they will be tied for first in one category.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/09/texas_am_101_for_sec_fans_all.html

I understand your pain Davey. Y’all haven’t beaten us in football since Nixon was president. I’d be bitter too if someone had owned me so violently for so long. But there’s a word people like you have in relation toward people like us. You are called a “bitch”

Get used to being a bitch again on a regular basis. Enjoy taking our spot in the craphole conference that is the Big 12-2-1-1+x. You too will just be another Baylor as you discover how hard conference play is without the San Diego State pseudo-bye every other week.

If US Senators are making forceful calls to former US Senators about what football team is in which conference, this means the desperation of those teams in dying conferences is much greater than people realize.

Boren doesn’t really care who comes to the Big 12 because his school will have left by 2013 anyway.

The music is still playing, but fewer and fewer seats remain…

I’m curious to see where TCU and WV fall after playing a few years of legit competition. I don’t know quite what your college athletics argument is, if you’re speaking over the past few years in football specifically then yes, those teams have better records (although Texas seems to be trying to rectify that as quickly as possible). I don’t see any as having overall better athletic departments with A&M other than possibly Texa (depending whether you’re arguing based on money or championships).

A&M needs to win in the SEC, no question. That doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that almost all schools with the ability to get out of the Big 12 have.

Wait, you are warning me what it is like to be someone’s bitch?

Is this some type of test?

When was the last time you were in a BCS bowl?

 When was the last time you won a conference title?

People like to say Texas does less with more, but how many other schools with 50k students, an “avid” fan base, access to fertile recruiting grounds, and never done shit except when you got nailed for cheating twice. It is documented dude, no innuendo, no rumors, the proof was right out of in front for everyone to see. The only time you have ever consistently won in football you were cheating your asses off.

No problem, you head coach says he hopes going to the Big XII will help him recruit against Texas. Curious why such a fine institution can’t stand on its own but oh well and now you are telling me to get ready for being someone’s bitch.

Guess what Ag, get ready for a steady diet of being the bitch in the SEC, but instead of being a bitch you will be a well paid bitch so I guess you can finally pay back that loan to cover your bills.

Oh, and since only we small and bitter schools find you guys incredibly self righteous and the most miserably self aggrandizing fan base in the country I am find it funny even those schools across the country think you guys a freaking idiots.

http://michiganzone.blogspot.com/2006/10/and-this-is-tradition-because.html

Ag_in_TX -

If Aggie Rick were real, he would be smarter than you.

Ag_in_TX

Sorry. That was harsh.

I meant to say,

“Ag_in_TX - I haven’t heard such intelligent analysis since Aggie Rick. Be sure to come back often and remind us of your championships in golf, track, and women’s basketball. We are all very proud of your athletic accomplishments especially the ones that you didn’t pay for.”

I wonder how long aggies are going to hand around Texas message boards? Isn’t it time to make new friends in the sec? We’re probably stuck with them until the end of football season but maybe we get lucky after that.

This news about KY senator messing up the WVU move to the Big 12 is really irritating. Why would Boren cooperate? Presumably he expects payback down the road. Realignment is the never ending suck.

They aren’t smart enough to be allowed to post on an SEC board, which tells you all you need to know. They aren’t smart enough to post here either but alas, precedent was set by other Big 12 sites before BC came along and they won’t go away. Of course, if you’ve seen their own fantake blog, you’d understand that they really have no other place to go.

Have pity on them as they defiantly trumpet their utter dominance in things that nobody else gives a rat’s fucking ass about. Or don’t.

David Boren could fuck up a bowling ball with a rubber mallet.

I’ve never posted on an aggie board (never had the slightest inclination) and the only time I’ve looked at them is when somebody posts a link on a Texas board to a particularly funny aggie post. These assholes trigger another wave of realignment chaos right in the middle of football season (couldn’t this have been handled in the off season?) because they can’t stand us and then they won’t go away.

Ag_In-TX-

Rifle? Cross country? Really? You are fucking hilarious.

So forgetting those pesky little sports like football and basketball for a second, yes you dominate the shit out of golf and cross country.

Congrats. But all of these schools has schooled you in football for the last decade now.

So be sure to chant SEC! SEC! When you win the next 5K cross country event.

This discussion has been exhausted and now bores me. WVU, L’ville, independence, … let’s put the final nail in its coffin with something we can all agree upon:

http://www.firejerrykill.com/2011/10/25/awful-fanbases-texas-am/

Ag_in_Tex - We have always been King of the lemmings - you being one of them. You have just decided to trade one master for 2 or 3. Subservience is a bitch isn’t it?

Hey T-Man,

Looks like you pussed out of the conversation, as I expected you would.

If you can’t take the heat, then get the hell out.

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