The Neinas Report

Interesting stuff. Thanks for provinding.

I hadn’t heard that SEC gentleman’s agreement stuff. Still don’t understand why the SEC didn’t expand its footprint to Virginia and add the Hokies — and maybe they will, once a 16th team can be lined up.

I was comfortable with the two-division, 12-team setup the Big 12 had for 15 years. But it ticked me off that a team like Kansas could go 11-1 in 2007, beating up on a weak North Division (except for Missouri) and lucking into missing the top three teams in the South that year. Also, the Longhorns always seemed to have to play in Lawrence in the years we had a chance to beat Kansas.

I kinda like the 10-team alignment. I hated the CCG every year but the first one, when we kicked Cornhusker. I like the second open date in the football season. I just wish West Virginia was a little closer to Lubbock.

I think we should stick with 10 unless there’s some sort of game changer available to us.

Scip, would you see FSU/Clemson as a potential game changer, or would you reserve that label for a Notre Dame?

I can make a pretty compelling case for opening up the Florida and Carolina’s for recruiting and media markets, but I’m just curious whether you’d think that was a home run. Value your analysis as always.

Nick -
 
ND is a game changer. FSU/Clemson aren’t at that level, but useful pieces for the reason you cite.
  
I just don’t want the Louisvilles of the world in the discussion.

I just don’t want the Louisvilles of the world in the discussion.

Amen.

Still don’t understand why the SEC didn’t expand its footprint to Virginia and add the Hokies

I believe there were some rumblings that the SEC was looking at them but VaTech was not interested. I believe the AD or university president unequivocally said they were happy in the ACC and were not leaving.

Agree with you completely on Louisville. I sometimes wonder how long Notre Dame will remain at “game changer” level, due to a two decades old run of irrelevance. But even I get excited at the idea of an annual game there, so you must be right, there’s something to it.

Agree with your first statement TN and Scip’s response. FSU and Clem would be great for our league, but I’m not interested in Louisville type schools. WVU is an underrated addition.

However, TN, don’t fool yourself about ND’s irrelevance. They are still ND. People have short memories on this board. Perhaps you forgot about Texas’ almost 2 decades of irrelevance before MB took control? Davie, Willingham, Weis is no different than McWilliams and Mackovic. Great programs still need great coaches to sell. It’s just easier for great coaches to do the jobs at tradition rich programs.

Since Texas frowns on the shady recruiting practices that pop up within the state, let’s carry this forward to conference realignment.

Would these potential conference universities shy away from paying for recruits? Would they actively work to prevent other schools from cheating within their states?

A partnership of institutions with this school of thought could shine a light on these activities and impact how multiple conferences operate.

Too idealistic? Okay, back to counting the profit then.

In total agreement with you, Groundhog. They just never seem to make that hire though, do they? Maybe Kelly can do it, the signs are generally positive. And I believe a good Notre Dame is good for college football.

@TexanNick

BigErn brought up a seemingly valid point on this on the other thread. Notre Dame is doing what some UT fans want us to do with Mack Brown. I don’t want this thread to regress like that one has so I won’t go into it much further. Just to say that people who are curious as to what happens to a great program when you fire your coach every 3 years when they don’t win the MNC, take a long look at the ND program.

I would surmise that schools other than Texas that frown on shady recruiting practices are: Notre Dame, Stanford, Florida, UVA, Penn State, Georgia?, the current OU, and Michigan.

This is by no means an exhaustive list, and I have no doubt left off some schools; however, with the exception of Stanford, I cannot bring myself to list any West Coast schools. I suspect the street agent trash is blowing unchecked through the area. The two programs I expect to see improve by legitimate means are Washington and ‘The Pirate Ship’.

OTOH, in our own backyard, Baylor’s athletic programs have improved so much and so quickly, I hope that we and our conference partners are keeping an ear to the ground. I suspect there is more going on there than meets the eye, regarding basketball, football, and track.

bhero,

You’re right in one respect. The fans at ND got spoiled under Holtz and the admins pushed him out for a variety of reasons. One being that they thought they could replace him and continue on. How wrong they were. However, they didn’t show a lack of patience with Davie, Willingham, and Weis. They were horrendous hires to begin with so they pulled the plug early only to follow that up with poor hire after poor hire. Kelly is doing a better job……can he get them back to where they belong is another subject altogether.

Why is it that ND belongs on an elite level like Texas and Alabama? They have money but aren’t located in a highly fertile recruiting. I’m not too much older than the kids getting recruited today and all that Notre Dame has ever looked like to me was an overrated has been school. They haven’t been really good at any point in the kids getting recruited todays life so it’s hard for me to see what it is that makes ND one of those schools that “should” be on a very high level. Maybe it’s my own distaste for having to hear about them every year but i don’t get it.

BTW Groundhog i didn’t mean to attack you i just get fed up with ND talk

Thats the greatness of Notre Dame, people love them or hate them. I cant stand them. That would make them a perfect candidate for a MNC game with Texas.

I suspect I know why people hate ND, but will not say so.

LFC, you’re young so you don’t remember Texas’ down years; you don’t remember Bama having coaches such as Debose, Price, and Shula; you don’t remember Gary Gibbs, Schnelly, and John Blake; you don’t remember USC having Larry Smith and Ted Tollner.

The fact is ND is the most decorated program in the country and is the only school that truly has a national following as evidenced with its TV contract. As such it recruits nationally and within it’s region which is not void of talent. It is a fine academic institution that stands for something, which most people might not understand.

Nice report Bob. It is nice for once to feel like our conference is meeting and looking to act pro-actively - even if that isn’t expanding, it does seem like they are trying to be very aware of what is going on in the realignment landscape and are keeping their options open.

As for ND’s hires being horrible - my memory is that all were greeted with excitement and general approval. I think you are using hindsight on saying they were bad.

Davies would be like us hiring Diaz. He was the in-house defensive prodigy under Holtz if I remember correctly, and he was getting feelers from other schools. Boosters wanted to hold onto him. Willingham was thought to be a rising star and had turned around Stanford winning the PAC and taking them to a Rose Bowl. Everyone thought he was not only a great coach, but one that could win with tough academic standards. Weis was seen as a major coup to land the genius behind the Pat’s offense - and Notre Dame was his dream job.

Groundhog, I don’t disagree with much of what you’ve said here, but there’s one area I will quibble with: Notre Dame as the only school with a national following.

I think that was probably true just two relatively short decades ago. But in today’s world with enhanced mobility for college graduates, internet connectivity, and the proliferation of televised games, you can pretty much be anywhere in the world and enjoy your team (unless you’re like most who can’t get LHN and… oh, nevermind, separate issue). Texas, USC, Bama, Florida, OU… I suspect all of these have national followings to rival that of Notre Dame now.

None of which is to say that the basic thrust of your argument isn’t valid, indeed I think it is. But I think it’s more based on a cache that was built quite some time ago, and not much refreshed since. Will it sustain forever, in the absence of more success on the field? Maybe, maybe not. I’ll watch though.

FSU and Clemson in the SEC? What was that about 16 team superconferences going into the closet?

TN, because of cable proliferation, yes, people can watch their own teams anywhere, but that doesn’t mean these teams have national followings.

Davie was never a head coach and wasn’t known as a great head coach. He was also partly responsible for pushing Holtz out the door. Willingham’s pac 10 title year included 3 losses during the regular season including a 69-17 drubbing at the hands of Texas. Yes, people thought they were great hires, but obviously they were not. People thought we hired Darrell Jr., when we hired McWilliams and people were extremely excited when we hired Mackovic after seeing his Jeff George “pro style” attacks at Illinois and esp after he landed morenz, adams, and pinkney. My point is, yes, programs are generally excited when they make their hires.

GD,

I agree. The problem is that at ND and almost all top-tier programs, the fanbases will demand immediate success. In ND’s case, both Willingham and Weis had immediate success, then proceeded to soil the sheets. Florida will be interesting… after the stillbirth that was Zook, I am not sure how much patience they will show with Will.

Unless you are hiring one of the very few sure things in the business that have been able to duplicate their success at multiple schools (Saban and Urban are about the only two that come to mind), then it is very easy for top-tier schools to get into the ND/Bama cycle which combines hiring the hottest name on the market, shouting from the rooftops that you have found “the guy”, showing little patience, knowing that you can afford to eat their contract, moneywhipping the next hottest thing, etc.

Given the very experience you speak of with Mackovic and McWilliams, you would think Texas fans would understand that we are far from immune to the ND cycle.

“Scipio Tex said: January 25th, 2012 at 4:31 pm

I think we should stick with 10 unless there’s some sort of game changer available to us."

That’s the current feeling in Dallas and among the Schools’ decision makers. There’s a current consensus that Louisville would work, but also that there is no viable 12th candidate at this point. That could change, but that’s wher it’s at right now.

Also, last I heard, Neinas will be there until June, which makes sense. It would give the new schools a voice in who his successor will be.

Jake,

Any rumors on who potential candidates to replace Neinas are?

I’m just happy that we got rid of Texas A&M, let them suffer with a crappy “SEC Network”

Yeah, Big Ern, you would think.

Ern, as far as I know, there isn’t, but I haven’t had an update since December. But I’ve been told that whoever it is, it will be a guy who is a marketing oriented type and not a compromise good old boy choice like Beebee was. Apparently, he was perceived by the leaders as plain, easily manipulated by his peers and his views on a playoff were out of touch with modern times. A follower who was content with the status quo and had zero in the PR department. The members currently see the value in a guy who can put the spotlight on the conference and keep it there and control the message.

There’s a lot of respect for Oliver Luck at the top and from what I know, whoever the new guy is would be vetted with him if identified before WVU comes aboard, but there wouldn’t be a vote until they do in June. No disrespect for TCU in that, just high praise for Luck. There’s also a lot of respect for Neinas, so no one is in a hurry.

Good info. It would be nice to see a strong voice running the conference even if that means that we don’t always agree with said strong voice.

From what I’ve been told, Oliver Luck is something of a lynchpin on a lot of this and is angling for the conference commissioner job when Neinas steps down. It sounds as though the interest from the football-first schools in the ACC has legs. Given the ACC brand versus the Big 12 shitshow that sounds unlikely on its face, but it makes more sense when you think about it. Combining schools like FSU and Clemson with the new Big 12 gives you a helluva football conference to sell to the networks. In my mind, if those two are will to jump ship now, the Big 12 has to take them.

no thanks on Louisville under any circumstances. You only expand if you can add FSU or Clemson. I’ve been to a Clemson game and its quite an enjoyable experience.

Not sold on Louisville myself, but the bigs like their market potential and rep, with excellent accessibility travel wise being a huge factor. As for Luck, per my previous comment, he is held in very high regard by all the Big 12 powers and in the national AD fraternity as well, with some notable exceptions in the Big East. :)

I’ll readily admit that the FSU/Clemson stuff, being a new development, is something I’m not current on. Their restlessness would make sense, though, given the zeal with which the ACC pursued Pitt and Syracuse, both basically basketball schools.

Death Valley is a helluva gameday experience and SouthKawlina gals are easy on the eyes. Tallahasse is a shithole and,next to Salem, Oregon, one of the worst State capitol towns I’ve ever visited.

Add Harrisburg, Pa. to that list as well, now that I think about it.

Network launches are complex when you have a network that nobody wants(LHN), but a network launch of a product that a lot of people are interested in(SEC Network) will not be so complex.

No to Louisville, they are second tier. They are not even the best in Kentucky. Clemson and FSU would be nice fit. ND is not coming in a million years please get that out of your head. They are not going to establish new rivalries with Baylor and K-State and toss aside stanford USC and Michigan. They have no ties to the region. Wish this wasnt the case but it is, plain as day.

Keep in mind that 5-6 of ND’s traditional match-ups will be far harder to schedule once the Pac-12/B1G scheduling agreement kicks in down the line. I imagine USC would keep playing them, but will Michigan, Michigan St., etc. be willing to put a non-conference game against a Pac-12 team on their schedule and one with ND every year? Will the ND fans be satisfied replacing Purdue and Stanford with Cincinnati and East Carolina?

At some point, the independent route won’t be feasible for that reason.

Homo: I urge you to listen to the recording. He also gives a non-LHN example.

The point also wasn’t that the SEC couldn’t launch a network, but rather, that the riches they hope to distribute might be less than they think.

Let’s say that Travis is right and they can get the buck. That $114 million is based on every cable/satellite home in Missouri and Texas being hooked up. I don’t think that’s gonna be that easy a sell. If they get even 50 cents (more than the B1G), that’s $57 mil, or about $4 mil per team in addition to whatever the rest of the league is worth. There will be a small net, assuming that some inventory currently owned by ESPN is turned back to the league.

The SEC must maximize this revenue in order to mollify Florida, Alabama, etc., regarding the loss of their Tier 3 contracts.

The “small net” is the amount going back, not the net after reduction of payout from ESPN.

Add Harrisburg, Pa. to that list as well, now that I think about it.

Hartford. The worst Period