Oscar Pistorius: The Blade Runner
Oscar Pistorius is the fastest man with no legs in the world. And when he ran a 45.07 in the 400 meters on July 19, 2025 - a time sufficient for an A level Olympic qualification, runners with biological legs began to get increasingly nervous about what the inclusion of carbon-fiber limbed runners meant for the future of their sport.
The controversy around Pistorius, and what it means to our definitions of competition, is fascinating, because it plumbs into the depth of the Olympic ideal and what the games ultimately stand for: is the brotherhood of Man through sport better expressed in generous inclusiveness or in adherence to the strict purity of competition? Is Pistorius an irresistible marketing opportunity for shoe and apparel companies - who can exert considerable political pressure on Olympic officials - a simple product of bio-mechanical engineering? Or is he legitimate inspiration for a disabled community that struggles with indignities most of us can't imagine?
Yes.
The edge of the bell curve in human variability is the undeniable truth of modern athletics. We draw lines about what is and what isn't acceptable in pushing those margins, but they can seem arbitrary, almost capricious. For example:
- Laser-eye surgery, a massive performance enhancer, is OK
- Use of performance enhancing drugs (including caffeine) is not OK. Unless that PED is ahead of the testing detection technology, in which case, best technology and boldest athlete wins
- A transgendered man competing with women is not OK
- A woman with high natural male hormone levels, identical to that transgendered man, competing with women is OK
- Athletes raised from birth in regimented state sponsored sports factories are OK
- Supremacy through genetics is OK
- Yet, presumably, a state sponsored athlete factory churning out human clones engineered for maximum genetic potential is not OK?
Strict principles rarely wins out here. Some things just feel wrong. And we have difficulty articulating exactly why.
With respect to Pistorius, is his use of carbon-fiber appendages a proven advantage? And, if so, is it comparable to laser-eye surgery - something that we've decided abets athletic performance, but is an allowable "correction" - or is it merely a Trojan horse for driving us into strange realms of sports performance (biomechanical implants, genetic manipulation, purposeful amputation at birth) that we'd rather avoid. At a certain level, we're attempting to define normal. And that standard is based on a body configuration that most of us wouldn't feel very comfortable asserting to a disabled veteran.
The evidence is reasonably clear that his use of carbon-fiber limbs, in combination with early adoption of their use when his legs were amputated at 11 months, has significantly enhanced Oscar's performance.
Without getting too deeply into the controversy over the testing methodology in Germany and Texas and the pro-Pistorius camp's use of selective comparator groups (marathon runners vs. sprinters) and lack of full disclosure when a group of the original researchers broke camp on their results (you can read a very thorough examination of that issue here), the gist of the anti-Pistorius camp is this:
- More energy return from carbon fiber than human tendon means that metabolic cost would be reduced. That's important because the ability to run at a given pace for 400m is limited by metabolic changes in the muscle. These can't be measured directly, but metabolic cost is a proxy for them
- Lighter mass of carbon fiber limbs means lower cost of accelerating the limbs, allowing quicker limb movement and therefore sprinting
- Carbon fiber does not fatigue, whereas muscle/tendon is known to be significantly affected by the end of a 400m race
In this sense, the level of sprinting athleticism required for Mr. Pistorius to achieve world class speeds is dramatically reduced compared to his intact limb competitors. Mr. Pistorius attains world-class sprinting speeds with the ground forces and foot-ground contact times of a slow and relatively uncompetitive runner. Mr. Pistorius’ intact-limb competitors, with natural limb weights and swing times, lack this option, and therefore must achieve their speeds via exclusively biological means. Mr. Pistorius, in contrast, achieves these speeds through the use of technology
It's not that Pistorius is shaving a possible 1/10 of a second off of his time - some researchers have hypothesized that we may be talking about up to 12 seconds.
I think that sort of dramatic estimate is reckless as it purports to know what OP's potential with legs is as opposed to the economical running style he's adopted using carbon fiber, but the broader point remains: Oscar Pistorius is as much a triumph of human technology as the human will.
If he is allowed to compete with less-abled (irony alert) athletes, what does it open the gates for?
After examining the evidence, my inner spoilsport wins out. Pistorius should not be able to compete. The science is pretty clear and it wins out over my natural sympathies.
But then I struggle with this pesky idea, the natural, logical extension of my tendency towards rationalism: the highest level of human achievement is about pushing boundaries. What is this but that?
Just as the nerd world pines for technological singularity, perhaps physical culture should embrace its own event horizon. Perhaps Pistorius heralds a new world of physical achievement that we'd be better off embracing than holding on to quaint notions of human potential.
Where do you stand?
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The world of mechanically-enhanced human experience
is met with overwhelmingly negative responses. In short, people just don’t trust machines. The best example I can think of is a study I learned about in my AI class:
In a bunch of clinics, they put out these machines to ask humans a series of questions, then proceeded to diagnose them and give them treatments. Basically, the only interaction was between humans and machines.
The option was given to be seen by an actual clinician, who would type in the user’s answers to the machine’s questions and read back the answer (with a bit of acting, of course, but it was still clear that the clinician was operating this machine).
You can guess which method was overwhelmingly preferred to the other.
by vortic on May 24, 2025 3:23 PM CDT reply actions
I think it's contextual.
I don’t hear many objections around pacemakers, Turbo Tax, and predator drones.
by Scipio Tex on May 24, 2025 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
The people that get crossways with Predator drones don't last long enough to make objections
by nobis60 on May 24, 2025 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions
And pacemakers?
"ABC welcomes you back to Vince Young Field"
-Rose Bowl sign
by Andrew Wiggin on May 24, 2025 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you want to hear complaints about Turbo Tax
talk to me on April 14th at 1:00am
by texitect on May 25, 2025 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
what are they used for?
I don’t love predator drones, but only because of their domestic usage. All the “don’t trust machines!” arguments don’t make a ton of sense when you consider that their actions are entirely determined by humans at some point in the process.
This, and to a lesser degree other elective surgeries like Kobe’s German experiment, are really forcing some tough questions on competition. Good article, interested to see you continue to tackle this one.
by Nickel Rover on May 28, 2025 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions
I was first suspicious of how much "performance enhancement" his cyborg legs were
when I saw how white he was.
by CMDR on May 24, 2025 3:24 PM CDT reply actions
Pistorius's race...
…is an interesting footnote to this story.
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
by BrickHorn on May 24, 2025 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know where I stand
I may be going out on a limb here, but I tend to side against letting athletes with prosthetics compete. The use of modern composite materials could certainly give supposedly handicapped athletes a leg up. It just seems wise to cut the threat of performance enhancement off at the knees.
On the other hand, I haven’t had to walk a mile in Pastorious’s shoes. If the shoe was on the other foot, I might think differently.
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
by BrickHorn on May 24, 2025 3:31 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
The Achilles Heel in your argument
is obvious.
by Scipio Tex on May 24, 2025 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I know
But it wasn’t supposed to be a serious argument. I was just pulling your leg.
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
by BrickHorn on May 24, 2025 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Glad to see you're not toeing the line of propriety here
by nobis60 on May 24, 2025 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Not at all.
I say what I feel, without fear of putting my foot in my mouth. None of this tip-toeing around bullshit.
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
by BrickHorn on May 24, 2025 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
All of you should be wearing
footy pajamas.
by Vasherized on May 24, 2025 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
What an apropos appearance
…by Barking Carnival’s resident heel.
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
by BrickHorn on May 24, 2025 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Stop pushing my
politically incorrect outrage button. I don’t care if it IS a kitten, a Nazi is a Nazi!
by FinestRawJellyBeans on May 24, 2025 3:49 PM CDT reply actions
My knee-jerk reaction is that it's unfair
It seems to me that, in effect, Pistorius with his racing limbs on basically constitutes a human-powered locomotive machine. Like a bicycle. While Pistorius’s limbs may arguably only provide a slight advantage at this point in their technological development, I’m sure in time artificial limbs will be capable of providing distinct advantages. (Or maybe they already are; I guess I don’t keep up with biomechanical technology as well I should have.)
Maybe there’s a middle ground. Something similar to performance restrictions placed on stock cars. As long as the performance of the artificial limb is restricted to certain mechanical limits, a user can race against naturally-limbed humans.
by Jimbone on May 24, 2025 4:00 PM CDT reply actions
Maybe have a limb weight requirement identical to the human leg?
by Scipio Tex on May 24, 2025 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Is this feasible?
Maybe the solution is to allow a certain shoe that replicates the process. Like the clap skates for timed skating?
Not sure that is feasible either.
Either way…I still kick the guy who takes this particular race from him in the balls.
Perhaps set a standard going forward. But don’t yank it from him when he followed the rules. There was no rule against it.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions
There are rules against anything that "artificially" magnifies performance
The job of rules it not to call out every possible permutation of what drugs, technology, or human ingenuity can conceive of like a science fiction writer. It’s establishing a broad principle. And the notion that whatever you can get away with until the rules catch up is fair game is pretty silly on principle. See HGH.
by Scipio Tex on May 24, 2025 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Innocent until proven guilty?
I don’t see how they prove that he COULDN’T run that fast with normal feet. So how do you gauge if it’s an enhancement? Perhaps it is a side-step rather than an upgrayedd (with2 d’s, for a double dose of pimpin’).
Until they can deduce a way to prove that…he should be able to compete. And don’t take anything from the guy if they do prove that assumption, just exclude him from future events
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
A pimp's love is very different from a square's love
The scientists set out to prove what you’re asking. The results are above. There’s no absolute certainty in any human endeavor, but we suspend a weightlifter on steroids even though we can’t prove how well he’d have done without them.
by Scipio Tex on May 24, 2025 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Good point...
But the weightlifter…at some point…said, “I want to be better at lifting weights…Inject me doc” (or you know, did it himself)
This guy just wanted to have a normal life. Does a guy with glasses get kicked out of a video-game tourney because he can see the screen better? No.
Would a guy that modded his controller get banned? yes.
This poor (extremely….poor) analogy is the difference between what he did and what the weightlifter did.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions
You're very focused on intent
Not really the issue.
by Scipio Tex on May 24, 2025 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions
If so....
What is training?
Or, better yet. If a one time olympic gold medalist shatters his foot, and gets metal pins put in…is he disqualified?
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions
wow...hit post and moved on..didn't check to make sure I posted correctly....
….What is training?
Better yet, if a one time gold runner shatters his foot and has pins and rods put in…is he disqualified?
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Reconstructed foot will never be the same and will pose a disadvantage. Comparison doesn’t work. In most cases, repaired bones are always going to be weaker than the healthy bone.
by BurntOrangeJuice on May 24, 2025 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
In most cases, always doesn't work following "in most cases".
I am assuming he can run 100% of what he could prior.
The point being…it’s an unnatural fix. so if his argument was natural vs unnatural…he would have to exclude this guy too.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions
In most cases, always doesn’t work following “in most cases”.
Ha. Good point! I should have proofread that before posting. Proof reading is a growth area for me.
I think the distinction has to be made between medical intervention that restores lost function versus medical intervention which potentially enhances function beyond what was lost.
Aside from the natural sympathy toward the guy, which lends to allowing him to compete, it’s important to be very cautious regarding the precedent that is set. Otherwise, the door is opened for future competitors to use that precedent in ways that may not be inline with preservation of the integrity of the Olympic games.
by BurntOrangeJuice on May 24, 2025 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Understood.
But again…he isn’t outrunning the other guys…he’s just “competing”. Meaning he is in line with most other elite runners. So who’s to say whether or not these surpassed “repairing function to what was lost” ? Sure, the mechanical limitations of the leg are probably less than his; but at the same time, using less muscle to move the same distance, would mean far more work on the part of other muscles.
This means his thighs are probably working doubly (By probably working doubly, I mean to say, I have no freaking idea, except that it would have to be more) to achieve the same effect. Therefore, wouldn’t the material offset his handicap, and bring him right back to par?
I doubt they did any studies on him, and how hard his muscles have to work.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions
That's why it's such a difficult issue.
Adequate studies would be extremely expensive, and he’d have to consent to them or they’d have to make participation compulsory for him to continue competing. This will be decided by an estimation of which camp will be the bigger pain in the ass for whoever has to make the decision.
by BurntOrangeJuice on May 24, 2025 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, pretty much.
Interestingly. It most likely doesn’t really even matter…
Is he the fastest guy on the field? Probably
not…even with those “enhancements”. Otherwise, we would be hearing about him breaking unofficial records.
So it doesn’t matter, because he’ll just get beat. And that will be that.
Only thing left is to decide who looks like an asshole (who tells him no).
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Good conversation/debate fodder, regardless.
by BurntOrangeJuice on May 24, 2025 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions
“I don’t see how they prove that he COULDN’T run that fast with normal feet.”
But they CAN prove he’s a shitty runner without those fancy metal legs.
by DogTown on May 25, 2025 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also, I didn't see the word "weight" when I replied earlier. That is feasible....but how to disribute it so that it doesn't give him an...
advantage or disadvantage would come into question.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Furthermore...
What about wind resistance?
Traction?
Center of gravity (he has to have a higher one, due to the way his legs are built)?
You could go into all this….
Or you could just look at the fact that there is an actual human running beside him…and determine it’s not an impossible obstacle to overcome if you are another competitor. He didn’t intend his life to be this way…and as long as it’s about equal…who cares?
It’s like a 50ft head start in a race between two cars that are in different stages of the modification process. You are still neck and neck at the end…so gut it out and get the win.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
"as long as it's about equal"
Exactly. Which is what the issue is about, not intent. The science went out to show how equal by quantifying various properties. It’s laid out and makes a compelling case for it being far from equal.
by UTeze on May 24, 2025 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Yet it mentions nothing about the differences between a normal runner using this tech vs a person lacking certain mucsles...
It also states nothing about it’s limitation in acceleration. In fact, all that study proves is, that a blade has more potential energy and limitless endurance in comparison to a normal leg.
You could spend years researching this, and how this man “cheated to get ahead”. Or you could accept that he has no feet, has reached a huge milestone for humanity as a whole, is merely “competitive” (nowhere near the favorite) and summarily, just compete with the guy. like he’s a normal human being.
Which, incidentally, is all he wants.
by e1 kabong on May 25, 2025 2:40 AM CDT up reply actions
You can spend years researching anything
Any discussion of science can be subverted by someone with that attitude. Or you could have an argument of where the science is and what it is lacking and what role that plays in the context of the situation. Like your first paragraph does. It is folly to just discount it all on emotion.
Also, unfairness and “cheating” still can occur even if the benefactor is not the best in the world at their activity.
by UTeze on May 25, 2025 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
No. No it can't.
It’s just that there are too many variables yet untested to form the conclusion that he is enhancing himself. Because…what if he could actually run faster with real feet? Would you let him compete with blades then? Of course.
My point is…it really doesn’t matter. (I’m repeating myself here, from other posts I’ve made) He isn’t THE fastest, He’s not winning a gold. Hell, he’s in 2nd place in a qual event (see: picture). So he’ll just get beat, and that will be that. But at least he got to compete (all he wants) like a normal person.
Or, you could make a huge deal out of it, ban him from the event,,,and what do you gain? Peace of mind from able bodied runners that they won’t get blown out by a guy with no feet? Annnnd bad press. Hrm, which one is the wiser choice?
by e1 kabong on May 25, 2025 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Dude
what if he could actually run faster with real feet?
What if you could make a good argument? Then we’d all agree with you. Our modeling on evidence so far isn’t optimistic.
He isn’t THE fastest, He’s not winning a gold. Hell, he’s in 2nd place in a qual event (see: picture). So he’ll just get beat, and that will be that. But at least he got to compete (all he wants) like a normal person.
Precedent. Harbinger.
And he’s potentially taking a team spot from another South African qualifier. Most people that go to the Olympics don’t medal. It’s about the experience. The appeal to sympathy or considerations like bad press isn’t really persuasive.
by Scipio Tex on May 25, 2025 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions
What if you could make a good argument? Then we’d all agree with you.
Doubtful. Betamax had a good argument. One filled with facts. Where did that get ’em?
Our modeling on evidence so far isn’t optimistic.
Could you clarify what exactly you mean by this?
——————
Incidentally, this..
“Most people that go to the Olympics don’t medal. It’s about the experience. "
is EXACTLY my point. I would throw in something about your empirical standard of what’s “fair” depriving him of the “experience” of competition…but you don’t care about sympathy. So I won’t.
And he’s potentially taking a team spot from another South African qualifier.
You say this as if he’s more machine than man. This guy has trained as hard as everyone else that wants a shot (if not harder…simply because, no one has done it before).
I realize (and have stated) that I decided to side with the losing argument here. I also realize that as the author of this piece you have already decided where you stand on this issue (and you have a viable reason for said stance).
The scientists evaluations of potential energy is quite convincing regarding whether or not the blades have more. The application though, they have 0 data for. They can’t. They would have to study him. He may have less weight in his blades than legs, and certainly there is an advantage in fatigue (within the foot and ankle area)…but he also has less tissue. I don’t know whether he can use his calf at 100% of what another human could (I would doubt it)…nor do you…or the scientists.
It is a HUGE leap to say that because a carbon fiber blade has more POTENTIAL energy than a human ankle/foot, that he is actually at an advantage. Because the way he uses that potential energy is not measured.
Think of it like this…A ferrari is at an advantage in a race with a corolla(. The ferrari is clearly advantaged.
But. If the ferrari has a governor on it, and you have no idea where that governor is set….is it still fair to say that the ferrari is at an advantage? Could be set at 10mph, could be 200mph. You don’t know until you tear it apart and find out (study it/him).
To say either way would be pure folly.
As far as precedent is concerned. I understand. I get it. But at the same time, there is nothing saying you can’t give him the experience, and then rule it out in the future (immediately after).
Also, what exactly is your vision of precedent being exploited in this case? Guys blow off their legs to get in the olympics? What other way could this be exploited? A faster guy gets his legs blown off and wins Gold?
You made a point that eyeglasses/laser eye correction are only bringing a person back to par, and are thusly dismissed as advantages. Even though, a blind person would certainly have trouble seeing the field of play…and therein would be a terrible competitive runner. All we did was give him the best tech we have for a person missing feet to run. Same deal. If you think there is too much potential for energy, tell him to modify it, add weight, whatever. I’m sure he would do it…just so he could compete.
But to tell him no, just because cyborgs might best humans in 2089…seems a bit silly.
I’ve already presented a few ideas of how to let him compete on an “even field”…with the same device attached to a normal person’s legs…but what if they can use the potential energy better than he could…as wrecker pointed out at the end of our ESN discussion? No longer an even playing field.
Thus…we must face the fact that life (not just running) will never be completely, 100% fair. But in this instance…I would say it’s fair enough. At least until someone does some comprehensive research that proves otherwise.
by e1 kabong on May 25, 2025 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions
excuse the typo in paragraph 4 after quotes/responses...
should read:
Think of it like this…A ferrari is in a straight up race with a corolla. In this instance, the ferrari is clearly advantaged.
by e1 kabong on May 25, 2025 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Also see pharmaceutical sales/medical device sales.
by BurntOrangeJuice on May 24, 2025 5:21 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Or make him carry extra weight.
If it’s good enough for jockeys as an equalizer, it’s good enough for runners—-or some such horseshit.
by boorad on May 24, 2025 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Since when is 12 seconds a "slight advantage"? In a 400 that's an eternity.
This sucks.
I guess I would argue that he is no more advantaged than Phelps. Clearly he has an advantage…but it was not of his own doing.
He never said, “Yeah go ahead and lop my feet off so I can get these blades put on.”
He never took an injection.
Therefore, it really is almost the exact same thing as being as genetically suited to his sport as phelps.
Let this kid do his thing. He has 1 thing he is the best at…after losing his FEET. He’s not cheating…he’s been cheated. Fuck you if you take that away from him.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I never said he was cheating
And I admire his strength, resolve and apparent character immensely. But what we don’t know (and will never know) is how his artificial limbs would effect the performance of the other world-class sprinters he must compete against. For all we know, all things being equal, he may smoke them. Or vice versa. We just don’t know. Would everyone else on the track be 12 seconds faster than him if they had Cheetah blades instead of natural limbs, too? (And I used “slight advantage” in an effort to give Pistorius the benefit of the doubt by assuming the 12 second calculation might be high.)
Consider other potential applications, though. If a person attaches mechanical arms to his shoulders and never loses another arm-wrestling contest, can he be considered the best arm-wrestler in the world? I know that’s dumbing it down (maybe too much), but that’s the only point I was trying to make. Not trying to diminish Pistorius’s accomplishments.
by Jimbone on May 24, 2025 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I wan't accusing you of accusing him....er...yeaaaaah.
I was merely posing an argument to everyone against it, and for everyone on the board to think about (distractions from the fact that football is still 3 mos away).
I agree, he could smoke them or vice versa. But it wasn’t his choice. He isn’t blowing everyone away…so let him continue. It’s not like he chose it, and it’s nothing like the clap-skate when it was first run (dusting people by 5 sec in a 100m). And, no one can tell him he wouldn’t be that fast otherwise.
Consider also, he has to learn to run and walk with no actual ankle or foot (a feat in itself if you have ever tried stilts. To compete like that? Hats off.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed. Very impressed by his accomplishments, regardless.
by Jimbone on May 24, 2025 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I just thought about the argument....
That other competitors would use…
“Hey, that’s not fair, he doesn’t have feet”
“Wait, you can hang with us with no feet? Clearly you are cheating”
“I want blaaaaaaades”
Ok, maybe not the last one…
But still, to say any of these out loud cracks me up. Serves as MORE reason for him to compete. Not less.
“One day son, you may be lucky enough to have your legs blown off, and you too could compete in the olympics”
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions
also....
Consider other potential applications, though. If a person attaches mechanical arms to his shoulders and never loses another arm-wrestling contest, can he be considered the best arm-wrestler in the world?
Yes. Clearly he has an advantage….but so does a 300lb man. Also, because of the physical limitations of the human body in other regards…I think even with a mech-arm, unless he has a mech exo to go with it, it would probably have about the same limitations as his body anyway. More about leverage than strength.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Then what is?
Phelps didn’t inend to be 6’ whatever with flippers for feet, which is why we let him compete. if we found out he had intentionally taken a drug, let’s call it foot-grow-large to achieve this…he would be panned and banned. But he didn’t (Or at least I think he didn’t). So we don’t.
Intent is everything.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
The chinaman.
Wu. He peed on my rug.
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
by BrickHorn on May 24, 2025 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions
All sorts of tasty philosophical musings to dive into here
I think we celebrate elite athletes - particularly those in Olympic sports - because they are the best of us (at least with respect to physical achievement, though most can be held up as paragons of hard work and dedication as well). Whether through rational thought or subconscious process, I think the majority of people define the ‘of us’ element as being totally comprised of elements that COULD naturally occur for any of us. Obviously, the necessary elements to be an Olympic athlete DON’T occur for the vast majority of us - no amount of dedication can make someone a world-class athlete in almost any sport if they haven’t done pretty damn well in the genetic lottery - but I think it’s important to us that they COULD. Most of us tend to think of reasonably functional eyesight as a table stake - bringing someone who had the misfortune to be born with 20/200 vision up to a ‘normal’ functionality seems like it’s correcting an unfairness rather than propagating one. Using PEDs, on the other hand, would alter a person and give him or her an advantage that none ‘of us’ could naturally replicate (obviously painting with a broad brush here, as injections of naturally occurring things like testosterone or blood doping with your own blood tend to fall into the PED umbrella).
In the middle of this spectrum - between sci/tech correcting an ‘unfair’ naturally occurring disadvantage and conveying an ‘unfair’ unnatural advantage - seems to lie the case of Pistorius. I think for many people, there is just too much ‘otherness’ in Pistorius’ artificial appendages to make us truly accept that he’s doing what he’s doing as ‘one of us’ in the physical sense, even if we celebrate the character and dedication that have allowed him to do what he’s done. The science that quantifies the advantage they lend him seems to reinforce that instinct in this case.
With respect to performance enhancement, I think there’s also an interesting distinction between individual and team sports - we lionize excellence in both, but our desire for purity in team sports can easily be suborned by the affiliations (regional, educational, etc.) that tend to align us with a certain team. It doesn’t take a ton of critical thinking to realize that some forms of PEDs are probably pretty damn prevalent in the NFL. As a Cowboys fan, I never seem to care that certain players are bigger/faster than they perhaps should be. When I do bother to consider or rationalize the idea, it tends to boil down to A) I have no evidence that the Cowboys are any more roided up than any other team, and B) who cares, dammit - we have to beat the damned Eagles! Team sports fandom seems to have less in common with celebrating human achievement and more in common with celebrating victory in war - and we’re obviously very cool with using technology to win wars. Unless you just got hit by a Predator drone, in which case you’re probably pretty down on the whole idea.
by nobis60 on May 24, 2025 4:18 PM CDT reply actions
Good stuff.
However…
but our desire for purity in team sports can easily be suborned by the affiliations (regional, educational, etc.) that tend to align us with a certain team.
I don’t think individual sports is much different, particularly when that athlete assumes greater meaning for some cause or nationality. See Manny Pacquaio or Lance Armstrong.
by Scipio Tex on May 24, 2025 4:53 PM CDT reply actions
You're right on when cause/nationality factors into the mix
What I was more aiming at is that while four or five nations may be watching the men’s 100M final in the Olympics with a patriotic interest in who wins, the world is watching to see greatness happen and watch a record fall. I think those not affiliated with a particular runner lose a lot of interest if they assume that runner or all the runners are ‘dirty’, because there’s only meaning if they are running ‘fairly’ against all those who set the record before them.
Different sports definitely have different yardsticks of what I’d call absolute vs. relative achievement. A boxer is an individual competing purely against another individual - every single action in the ring is a dynamic between the boxer and his opponent. There’s nothing a boxer can achieve independent of his opponent, and that is true of team sports like football, basketball, etc. We celebrate relative achievements of dominance in these sports, but there’s no real absolute since different champions faced completely different competitive challenges. The Tour de France is an interesting hybrid - we think of it as an individual achievement, but obviously the team plays a role and the dynamics of the peloton have a tremendous impact on a rider’s ability to finish any stage within a certain time. The men’s 100M and other Olympic track and field events are probably the purest absolute achievement, since none of your current competitors are truly impacting your time/distance/speed.
The more relative/competiton-determined a sport, the more we’re probably fine with some ‘enhancement’ if we assume that the playing field between current competitors is even. The more absolute the sport, the more ‘pure’ we like it because the real challenge is man vs. an ideal of pure speed or strength.
by nobis60 on May 25, 2025 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
That's the core human appeal of a race.
Or a fight. The fewer trappings, the more pure.
by Scipio Tex on May 25, 2025 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
This dovetails with my infrequent but persistent obsession...
…of determining exactly what events are considered an “athletic sport”. My working definition to this point is
“An athletic sport is a competition in which players gain an advantage through precise and/or intense physical activity using, at most, a simple machine as equipment to facilitate performance.”
There is some nuance, here: Football is an athletic sport in spite of the arguably complex machinery employed in safety gear because the gear is designed for safety, not to improve performance (yes, you can hit harder for longer with shoulder pads on than without, but if you weren’t concerned with safety or pain, that probably wouldn’t be true). For examples, I say NASCAR and Air Racing are not athletic sports, but golf, shuffleboard, and the pole vault are. There are some fringe cases which probably require some additional clarification (for example, I believe this would make longbow archery an athletic sport but compound-bow archery not), but I think this is a good start.
So from my perspective, I find it interesting to note that this fellow’s legs are simple levers or springs. I don’t think it would be too much to allow intact runners to wear carbon fiber blades instead of shoes. Yes, it would require years of retraining to take full advantage, but the same could be said of the transition to modern rackets in tennis, or of the introduction of the dimpled golf ball.
What I’m trying to say is, we let these runners wear fancy shoes already, why not let them wear what they like on their feet so long as it is a single simple machine (lever or spring, for example)? You can rule out wheels because we have skating for that. Imagine the field running with small carbon-fiber blades slipped under their feet with a few inches of clearance. Would that be so different than watching them run around with carbon fiber encasing their feet and attaching them to specially designed soles?
by Horn Brain on May 24, 2025 5:25 PM CDT reply actions
Perhaps I should have written "...using, at most, individual simple machines as equipment.."
You could have an athletic sport with more than one lever, they just can’t be linked together to make a complex machine.
by Horn Brain on May 24, 2025 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I hear you
We turn sports into an engineering problem. Basically, competitive sailing.
by Scipio Tex on May 24, 2025 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Hahahahah....
Ohhhhh shit… I am gonna defend him here, but I gotta nod to you on that one, first.
Is skating not a sport? Because, essentially, it’d be about the same.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess...
… that’s why I’m saying don’t allow anything beyond a simple machine. How is a spring/lever designed to increase efficiency any different than putting spikes on their shoes to increase grip? I don’t think this is going to become more about the equipment than the athlete.
by Horn Brain on May 25, 2025 6:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Let me clarify
I didn’t mean it as a criticism. My understanding of sailing is that they had pretty specified simple constructs that were allowed but tiny variations in material, hull or keel design, would allow advantage. So it became an arms race. I guess if you want to issue some sort of standardized simple lever or foot spring to all, you can obviate that, but it seems to me they’ll always be some clever engineer who will find a way to design even the simplest tool into flubber.
by Scipio Tex on May 25, 2025 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought you meant...
that we were turning a footrace into competitive sailing. Meaning, taking an athletic event and making it, well, non-athletic.
by e1 kabong on May 25, 2025 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, I see
It’s a very free-market solution, no? People will only have an advantage for a few races before everyone catches on. Problem takes care of itself. I suppose if flubber were invented it would cause a similar crisis, but thank goodness for those Laws of Thermodynamics.
by Horn Brain on May 29, 2025 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I like the simple machine def
There are probably a few sports that don’t fit (cycling) but all in all, kit is pretty good.
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by Reggieball on May 24, 2025 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I would say cycling is a mechanical sport
It does seem like it doesn’t fit, but I’m kind of ok with admitting that there’s more to cycling than just athletics. If stock cars were powered by electrical motors run off of a battery charged by the driver peddling a bike for months before each race, it wouldn’t make NASCAR an athletic event. It’s not just where the power comes from, it’s about how many steps there are between human being and performance. I say one should be the limit. I guess you could say that’s arbitrary, but it seems less arbitrary than two…
by Horn Brain on May 25, 2025 6:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm curious about why safety vs performance even matters in a sport definition.
See boxing hand wraps and gloves. They’re very simple technology, but their purpose is not the safety of the other fighter (as most people believe), it’s so you can punch someone repeatedly in the head with minimal risk of shattering your hands. Which bare knuckle fighters did with pretty alarming regularity.
Is mountain climbing a sport? Or is the lack of direct competition (though it’s undeniably competitive) the differentiator?
Is the biathlon both a sport and non-sport depending on the phase of action?
by Scipio Tex on May 25, 2025 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't like the simple machines definition at all
My understanding of the Americas cup is that all the boats errr yachts are now identical (and way fucking sweet too). Given the physical demands of sailing, I would have to say that sailing is a sport (and you can die).
Biathlon is a sport, target shooting by itself is just a skill, if you put golfers on a clock combined fastest round and lowest score then you have a sport (but you would have to get rid of the caddy).
Mountain climbing is a sport—if you can die and it requires great strength and balance—that’s easily a sport. Hiking—not a sport, endurance racing—sport.
NASCAR—not a sport (yes you can die, but any activity where your post activity celebration involves more exertion than the actual activity is not a sport).
Definition of sport:
A physical activity involving competition, which requires a level of exertion beyond a walk, where increased levels of exertion are rewarded and decreased levels of exertion are punished. Where increased levels of skill are rewarded and decreased levels of skill are punished. Where the use of a motor is not allowed.
by texitect on May 25, 2025 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions
You can die
Seems to be an important qualifier for you. I dig it. I don’t know if I agree with it, but I dig it.
by Scipio Tex on May 25, 2025 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Clearly, you have never driven competitively.
It is far more taxing than you think.
by e1 kabong on May 25, 2025 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions
A sport-
In my definition would be:
Any activity that requires athleticism, strength, dexterity, cunning, or patience that is done competitively (either alone or against others), but not professionally.
NFL = not a sport. Or rather, it disqualifies itself from a sport as soon as a 6 figure check is written to a player. It is a profession.
NCAAF= Sport. As no one is paid.
by e1 kabong on May 25, 2025 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Chess in the park with old men.
Requires cunning and a hell of a lot of patience and therefore fits your definition of a sport. Careful with your ands/ors.
by Horn Brain on May 29, 2025 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Boxing gloves are safety for the user, sure.
They don’t affect whether it’s a sport or not. They’re exactly analogous to shoulder pads, in this respect. Plus, I don’t think that, even if they were lead-weights to increase hitting power or something, they would even count as machines. The purpose of separating safety equipment and performance equipment is better highlighted by mountain climbing. The ropes and clips and everything are arguably a system of pulleys (therefore not simple machines), but they don’t help you climb, they just keep you from dying. It’s a sport if you’re racing someone. If you aren’t, it’s just an outdoor activity. Is hiking a sport? They’re the same, in my mind.
Biathlon is not an athletic sport because of the guns. Cross country skiing is an athletic sport, but biathlon is a combination athletic and shooting (? precision?) sport. NASCAR is a motorsport, not an athletic sport. There are different categories, here.
by Horn Brain on May 29, 2025 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Equipment
Maybe the closest analogy would be with technological advances with equipment. E.g. those sharkskin swimsuits awhile back, or the advances that are made in ski technology, bikes, rackets, etc.. In each case, reduced friction, weight, etc leads to better performance, breaking previous records. If we wanted only to see the athletic excellence
(rather than combined with technological excellence), we’d have to follow the ancient model of exercising naked, but even then, there’s all the training advances, state sponsored sports factories, etc, so it’s still not just the individual effort we’re seeing.
I guess in this case versus the other equipment issues, the justification is that the equipment is being used by “normal” (athletically freakish) bodies rather than replacing the bodies outright as in the carbon blade case. Still, it’s a very tricky line.
I’d like to see a no-holds barred Olympics—any drugs, tech, etc is open, just to see what humans can do—and then a natural Olympics barring any performance enhancers…but the point of this post is that it’s difficult if not impossible to make a clean split between these alternatives.
by canuckhorn on May 24, 2025 5:26 PM CDT reply actions
"no-holds barred" still needs some boundaries
So track events quickly turn into roller skating. Much faster. That then turns into bike racing. Much faster. That quickly turns into drag racing. Much faster. If the goal is a no rules race to move a human body 100m (or 200 or 400, etc.), we quickly get drag racing and formula 1 (with no restrictor plates). No thanks…
Now allowing any sort of PEDs is an interesting idea.
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by Andrew Wiggin on May 24, 2025 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions
A completely obscure example of this
is when the Dutch developed the “clap-skate” and started using it in international speed skating competition. They enjoyed a few years of dominance beyond their normal success before the rest of the speed skating community made the jump as well. I actually thought it was great that the regulatory boards allowed the entire field to use the special skates rather than ban them for the sake of mythical sports purity.
by FinestRawJellyBeans on May 25, 2025 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Great that he is an athlete
But due to mechanical augmentations I think that he should only be allowed in the special olympics. I dont feel sorry for him because we shouldnt, he is working his tail off and I commend him for that. But you cannot make the playing field uneven by allowing him to compete in the regular Olympics.
This reminds me of the All American wrestler with 1 leg. I recall how he was the best in his weight class and was really proud of him. But it was patently unfair to his competitors since he really could not be beaten. He had increased arm strength and leg strength in his weight class. If your top moves were take downs, well guess what, you cant take him down, he stayed on the ground. If you went down to his ground level, which you had to, he would pound you because of size.
Sucks, but that is how the cookie crumbles.
by Checkmate on May 24, 2025 5:30 PM CDT reply actions
The playing field isn't uneven.
Unless you count the fact that one competitor has no feet.
It isn’t like he’s setting world records. He’s just competitive in the trials. That means that much like corrective eye surgery…he is only coming back to the mean (obviously, the mean of a very elite group, but the mean nonetheless) There is no “simply cannot beat him” caveat in this competition like in your example.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions
So your argument is that it's alright because he's only a mediocre athlete to begin with?
That doesn’t hold much water. If Usain Bolt got him some Cheetah Blades and ran a 7 second flat 100m, that would be alright or no?
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by Andrew Wiggin on May 24, 2025 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions
This is partially tongue-in-cheek.
My argument is that this guy HAS NO FEET. He got the best medical “replacement” for running. He was only trying to replace what he’d been deprived of. He only wants to compete. He isn’t setting world records…let him run.
His intent is not to cheat, it’s to compete. This is the most viable viable solution we have for artificial running. And you are going to hold it against him because our tech isn’t far enough to reach your empirical standard of “fairness”?
Tell him to dumb them down, shorten them, add weight…whatever. Tell him how to compete…don’t tell him he can’t.
BTW:
I realize that this probably goes the other way.
by e1 kabong on May 25, 2025 2:51 AM CDT up reply actions
This is a fascinating topic.
This is a very complex issue with great arguments available for both sides, which means it probably won’t be resolved any time soon unless the Olympics administration decide they somehow know the correct answer unequivocally and put their foot down with a ruling one way or the other. They are damned if they do and damned if they don’t, though, because there will be an outcry from the losing side whatever is decided.
If there were an accurate way to measure energy expenditure during a controlled race between Pistorious and an olympic sprinter who will finish the race in a similar time and with a similar body mass (correcting for the differential in leg mass) with some sort of calorimeter in the form of a suit, that would probably be the best way to determine whether he receives a significant advantage. In sprinting, the runner who is able to most efficiently convert energy into work in the forward direction is going to win. If Pistorious expends significantly less energy than the other sprinter, you can determine that he has a significant advantage. Of course, even then, there will be those who feel sympathetic toward his plight and say let him compete anyway.
by BurntOrangeJuice on May 24, 2025 6:11 PM CDT reply actions
In sprinting, the runner who is able to most efficiently convert energy into work in the forward direction is going to win.
Is this true? I thought it was who could move fastest while expending energy efficiently enough to win the race.
How is his off the line speed? I would doubt he could compete with a human foot in that regard. Try accelerating from a dead stop with your legs straight.
I disagree with your method. It will always be in favor of the human foot runner. This is because he…has feet, and thusly, just to run will expend more energy. Like comparing a 6 cyl and an 8 cyl (assuming cyl size stays the same). 8 will always be less efficient.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 6:20 PM CDT reply actions
Like comparing a 6 cyl and an 8 cyl (assuming cyl size stays the same). 8 will always be less efficient.
Not true. Depends on the drivetrain, whether it’s turbocharged 6 cyl vs naturally aspirated 8 cylinder, etc. The key here is the length of the race. It’s very possible it takes Pistorius longer to get off the line, but if he fatigues less due to the energy exerted by the spring action of the blades rather than the contracting of the muscles of the lower leg and foot, then Pistorious will have an advantage in a longer race, such as the 400 m. I don’t doubt that he would have a disadvantage in a 100 m, but I suspect the loss of explosiveness inherent to his blades off the line will eventually be overcome by the advantage in the energy storage of the flexed carbon fiber blade which is released in the form of kinetic energy without the necessity for biochemical regeneration of ATP and eventually reliance on anaerobic means of ATP production for human muscle tissue over a long race. Phosphocreatine runs out pretty fast in a human muscle, whereas the potential energy stored by a flexed carbon fibre blade is regenerated every time it is flexed. It may be possible the additional burden placed upon the muscles of the upper leg is sufficient to cancel out the energy storing property of the blade, but I doubt it.
by BurntOrangeJuice on May 24, 2025 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I meant all else equal the 8 will always be less efficient (same tp too...since an 8 COULD be more efficient if you babied it)
I get it….what I’m saying is, there are pros and cons to both…and he seems to be neck and neck with someone on the finish line. If he’s blowing ppl out…force him to run a shorter race.
As long as it’s competitive….who cares?
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
It brings it back to the question of whether or not he would be as competitive without the blades. Obviously, he is able to achieve the velocity necessary to finish neck and neck with an olympic sprinter, but is he able to do so with less metabolic demand? Would his athletic conditioning be sufficient to there were no mechanical efficiency differential?
by BurntOrangeJuice on May 24, 2025 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
To be clear,
in no way do any of my arguments convey an opinion that he should not be allowed to compete. I’m just developing my thesis that this is too complex of an issue for anyone to make an incontrovertible judgement on it.
by BurntOrangeJuice on May 24, 2025 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Probably.
But, were I an olympian…I would be petitioning FOR this guy right now…regardless of whether or not he could beat me.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Unless it turns out he's kind of a dick.
Don’t know the guy, so it’s hard to say, actually.
by BurntOrangeJuice on May 24, 2025 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I would find it hard to believe that after overcoming all that adversity...
He would be a tool.
But it’s possible…and I agree.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Should be stated that a lot of what I am positing is conjecture based on my understanding of physics and biology.
It would take a very complex study with lots of very high-tech, highly accurate equipment to get enough concrete answers to the myriad questions this issue demands answers to before a conclusive judgement could be made.
by BurntOrangeJuice on May 24, 2025 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Look, just give em stilts that have the same device on the bottom (I've seen a prototype)...
and put some weights on his leg (corresponding to the lost parts weight and location)…
and let them have the option to run normal or in speed stilts.
Speedstilt racing…….yeaaaaaah.
done.
I like how no one is pointing out the advantages normal runners have over him. Like catching themselves if they slip. Or, off the line speed. Or, not having to learn to walk in a completely new way.
This should be heralded not panned.
A veteran…who lost his limbs…is competitive in a footrace. This is a milestone, not something to be picked apart.
If I was on that field…I would give it all I had…then (after losing….since I am white, and in terrible shape) turn and shake the man’s hand and say:
“Nice race. You deserve it. Thank you.”
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 6:35 PM CDT reply actions
As much as I respect Pistorius, it's just not a fair race.
He would need to compete with others who have a similar disability and similar prosthetics for it to be fair.
Would it be entertaining to race a wheelchair-bound athlete versus an intact-limb competitor on a two mile downhill race on pavement? Would it be competitive to rerun the same race but on a rocky surface?
For a sport or a race to have merit there has to be a level-playing field, pardon the phrase. Just think of all of the different weight classes in boxing, for example.
by WreckerTex on May 24, 2025 6:36 PM CDT reply actions
It would be great to develop a fair form of racing for those with prosthetics.
I don’t know what that would be, but I think the issue would be that there aren’t enough similarly disabled, interested athletes to make it work.
This is a tough question. Maybe let him compete but have an asterisk next to the results for posterity. Like a USC national championship.
by WreckerTex on May 24, 2025 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Or just give the other competitors stilts....
and make sure the weight was approximately the same….
http://www.instructables.com/community/PowerisersJumping-Stilts/
Some variation on that would work.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I like it. The details can be worked out in time.
It’s the same way in auto racing. An never-ending back and forth on what is fair or not between aerodynamics, forced induction, engine size and layout, tire compound, materials, etc, etc.
by WreckerTex on May 24, 2025 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
You and I Tex, we're gonna pave the way to a future sport....
Now all we need is millions of dollars in funding, a working prototype, and a sponsor…
I like the idea of an ever-changing tuning and materials qual list. Would keep things interesting and breed innovation
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, and if you don't watch our network you're a total handicap-hating douche.
The ESN. The Enhanced Sport Network. Would you watch technology-enhanced athletes play a football game? Tennis? I’m sure I would. Face it. Who has a bigger audience? Track and Field or NASCAR, F1, Moto GP, etc.
It’s already been decided, but how do you capitalize on it.
by WreckerTex on May 24, 2025 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Lol...this just turned from a retarded idea on a message board into something that could garner millions.
Could you imagine slam dunks with those things? AWESOME.
All WR’s receive these stilts too, and inside receivers get smaller versions that are better for acceleration.
There could be an all-robot league. Robot football? AMAZING. Like the CBS guy…but less gay.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions
But you realize, that in our money lust we blew right by the issue at hand.
In an all-enhanced network, intact-limbed athletes would once again have an advantage — like auto racing. Could we survive as a handicapped-only network when a intact-limbed, yet enhanced, competitor emerges as it certainly would? I’m afraid we’d go the way of the dodo once that happened.
by WreckerTex on May 24, 2025 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, I assumed we would do both.
ESN would show all Enhanced sports. Un-handicapped or handicapped. Also, Robots playing football would be controlled by a user, therein would be the enhancement.
Do both son. Cripple racing (formula 1), Hover-round racing, and speed-stilt racing would all be included.
Our catchphrase? “The ESN network, enhancing your day…every day”
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions
And your idea of downhill wheelchair vs human racing sounds highly entertaining.
Competitive? Not necessarily. Entertaining? Oh hell yes.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm looking forward to a day
when the Paralymic athletes dominate the regular Olympians.
by FinestRawJellyBeans on May 25, 2025 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Consider this...
children born today will be cyborgs at some point in their future. The singularity is not the emergence on an artificially intelligent entity, but the unification of humanity and technology into a single indistinguishable being. Humans and technology will be one and the same. In other words, the special Olympics will be reserved for people like Usain Bolt.
by Cheese Bits on May 24, 2025 6:42 PM CDT reply actions
Hopefully more like Katya, once she becomes a borg herself
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Hopefully a social more will arise,
that makes it poor etiquette for a female cyborg to leave her robogina in the sink.
by BurntOrangeJuice on May 24, 2025 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Meh, it's catching on with football players and pocket-pussies, so one would expect it....
To catch on with cyborgs.

by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah
except that it will be biological material, not metal or plastic. Nano sensors and viruses that optimize bio-functions. Tracksuit as an antenna that relay bio-data to the cloud.
by Cheese Bits on May 24, 2025 6:53 PM CDT reply actions
OK, but disagree on the cloud. That would never happen unless people feel like being Borg.
If your vision comes true, it would enhance individuality, not destroy it.
by WreckerTex on May 24, 2025 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Or further seperate the have's and have not's...
Specifically, the have’s would have this tech, and everyone else…would not.
One or the other.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Every technology always has early-adopters. By way of example, look at cell phone ownership growth.
Unless early-adopters go all Terminator and start slaughtering meat bags like us, then it will follow the normal path of technological adoption.
by WreckerTex on May 24, 2025 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions
How could you not though?
If I was Barry, the amount of shit I would take is very close to 0.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions
"Would you like more fries with....what's wrong with your eyes?"
* throws employee over car *
Employee: “COOOoooooollll” * fades off *
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
King Kong. M1 Abrams in town. Greg Davis. Physical superiority doesn't always win. Gotta have the numbers.
And you don’t really go from wimp to Barry overnight. I fear I ’m being way too serious about this.
by WreckerTex on May 24, 2025 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions
People already upload bio-data to the cloud.
Next time your in a Best Buy, look at the fitness section. It’s full of bluetooth4 sensors optimized for connected devices. There are serious implications; but soon micro sensor, like cameras the size of buttons will be on the market. You could essentially upload every second of your life to Facebook if you wanted to.
Next evolution of the tech will be even smaller. IBM’s Watson-like could easily evolve into Skynet, crunching big data for us. This is our hyper-connected future, we will enhance ourselves in some way or another.
Crazy stuff, and it’s coming FAST.
by Cheese Bits on May 24, 2025 7:09 PM CDT reply actions
What would you think the first peice of tech would be?
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't let it fool you, the flower pattern is a death star beam.
by Cheese Bits on May 24, 2025 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I get it now. I always wondered why he never got his ass kicked.
by WreckerTex on May 24, 2025 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow....
I actually almost fell out of my chair.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Tommy Hunter dumped a ton of beer on him during a Rangers playoff celebration
Sager is fuming, and then Hunter follows up with, “I don’t even know who you are!”
Given Sager’s near-universal reputation as a dick, and given that any ego he has is less justified than almost anyone else who has ever been on television, I though that to be a wonderful moment.
by nobis60 on May 25, 2025 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, but nothing with nano sized pcb's
like this small http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17357374
by Cheese Bits on May 24, 2025 7:19 PM CDT reply actions
How refreshing
A sports blog hijacked by uber-geeks!
by Major Cult on May 24, 2025 7:41 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Yeah, I scrolled up and realized all the random shit that's made it on this page....
Then again…the topic is pretty damn close to cyborgs to begin with.
Not like the Title was “Alabama scores top recruit” and we ended up here.
I’m just as, if not more guilty than most.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Jesus....
Even with technology, we’re still losing to black guys.
CAVEAT:Sorry, I had to….too easy.
by e1 kabong on May 24, 2025 7:50 PM CDT reply actions
I think an important distinction
Is that the mechanical correction is core to the competition. Vision is required in virtually every sport (maybe not… I don’t know, arm wrestling?), but its ancillary to other qualities in sports. If there were a straight vision competition - who could see the smallest letters on an eye chart from 50 feet - there’s no way they would allow corrective eye surgery. Just as nobody would allow Dwight Howard to have 7-foot long robo-arms replace his natural 6-foot long arms. If a football player has a kidney removed, yeah he got a pound or two lighter, but that’s not directly, appreciably enhancing the skills he uses to play football, so that is alright. Similarly, if Pistorius were competing in archery or car racing, nobody would have any problem with his prosthetic legs.
It’s still a very subjective issue with plenty of gray area though. I don’t who makes the distinction or how.
"ABC welcomes you back to Vince Young Field"
-Rose Bowl sign
by Andrew Wiggin on May 24, 2025 9:49 PM CDT reply actions
I'm watching a DVR of Blade Runner right now.
A movie ahead of its time—-obviously. Harrison Ford, Rutger Hauer, Edward James Olmos, Sean Young, M. Emmett Walsh. Good stuff!
by boorad on May 24, 2025 10:09 PM CDT reply actions
Moral hazard
In India, able-bodied professional beggars occasionally enhance their earning potential by paying for amputations. Think any poor kids would do the same if some future prosthetic offered them a better shot at the NBA?
by MarkW on May 25, 2025 6:01 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
"Right boot"
"The words printed here are concepts. You must go through the experiences." - St. Augustine
by Funkytown on May 25, 2025 9:07 AM CDT reply actions
Fascinating, all the lawyers went on vacation and left BC to the engineers.
As Mark W implied I think you’ll know that carbon fiber blades are an enhancement worth regulating/disqualifying the first time an able bodied runner has both his legs amputated in an effort to improve performance. Until that point, I think its pretty obvious that they are not an unfair advantage.
The other thing you can’t discount, is that allowing the use of technological replacements (you can’t really enhance your feet if you don’t have them to begin with) will ultimately result in much improved prosthetic devices for other amputees. Granted this has nothing to do with the competition itself, but a little less myopia can’t hurt the sports world.
Third, as much as I love golf, I hate to break this to all you golf pricks, but its a skill, its not a sport. Any definition of sport that doesn’t involve even a temporary increase in your resting heart rate to play is inadequate.
by texitect on May 25, 2025 10:45 AM CDT reply actions
Third, as much as I love golf, I hate to break this to all you golf pricks, but its a skill, its not a sport. Any definition of sport that doesn’t involve even a temporary increase in your resting heart rate to play is inadequate.
If you’re not getting your heart rate up when you play golf, you’re not swinging hard enough.
by BurntOrangeJuice on May 25, 2025 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
I've always assumed golf is sport
because I assume your heart rate goes up when you’re pissed off.
by boorad on May 25, 2025 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I’ve never experienced an emotional roller coaster between animal rage and sheer triumph like what I get in my typical golf outing. Just when I’m ready to list my clubs on eBay and give it up altogether, I have a tee shot for the ages and I’m rehooked.
by BurntOrangeJuice on May 25, 2025 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
If one swing raises your heart rate, I highly recommend this
boorad, yeah but that would make raising kids a sport too.
by texitect on May 25, 2025 11:46 AM CDT reply actions
I have a good friend who does crossfit and loves it.
I’m not out of shape, I was just making a joke about my foolishly aggressive style of golf play. I’m always swinging for the fences rather than just trying to make good contact. I want to drive the ball 400 yards, so I typically shank it into the woods or hit a house.
by BurntOrangeJuice on May 25, 2025 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Lets say he makes the Olympics based on the times he runs, and some engineer is able to make another set of legs for him before the races start that are 15% lighter. He puts them on and runs 2 seconds faster. Does that count?
Where do we draw the line?
by UT_BKC on May 25, 2025 12:41 PM CDT reply actions
Speaking of Fairness and the Competitive Ideal
Does anyone find the first picture showing the Pistorious next to the Qatari runner ironic? What are the odds that the other runner was actually a native born Qatari?
by nimrodxi on May 26, 2025 8:12 AM CDT reply actions
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