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NBA Conference Finals: The Big 3

May 27, 2012; San Antonio, TX, USA; Oklahoma City Thunder forward Serge Ibaka (9) drives to the basket as San Antonio Spurs forward Kawhi Leonard (2) and Tim Duncan (21) defend during the second half in game one of the Western Coneference finals of the 2012 NBA playoffs at the AT&T Center.  Mandatory Credit: Soobum Im-US PRESSWIRE

Last time we checked in on the NBA playoffs (aside from Scipio's piece on the Thunder vs. Joey Crawford) I suggested that LeBron's championship run was likely contingent on how long Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett could wear their throwback jerseys before they needed to be thrown into the wash, so to speak.

Star-divide

That remains true, but I would add an additional factor that will also go a long way towards determining these Western Conference Finals. I present the following stat line:

22 Minutes, 1-3 shooting, 5 points, 7 rebounds (2 off), 1 assist, 1 steal, 2 blocks, 0 turnovers, 0 personal fouls.

That was Serge Ibaka's line in game 1 of the Western Conference Finals in which the Spurs overcame the Thunder in an exciting 101-98 opener.

I suggest that add one more name to the list of guys with the potential to swing the playoffs: Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, and Scotty Brooks.

When the Spurs went small ball late in game 1 it was out of a need to get penetration against the length and athleticism of the Thunder D which was effectively trapping the pick'n'roll decision man and recovering to shooters, which led the Spurs creators and shooters alike to make bad passes against the pressure. The Spurs 14 turnovers and only 9 3 pt attempts in the 1st half had everything to do with the Thunder almost stealing one by the River Walk.

Then the Spurs started playing Steven Jackson at the 4 and Brooks, seeing a potential double jump in line for Popovich, traded a rook for a pawn. 22 minutes for the game's best shot-blocker in a loss enabled by the other team's ability to repeatedly get layups on halfcourt possessions in the 4th quarter is inexcusable and bizarrely incompetent.

Additionally, the decision-making by Westbrook on a few of his 17 shots and by Brooks in playing Fisher so much could lead to a short series for the Thunder. Up to now, Westbrook has avoided turnovers and demolished teams. The Thunder can't have him go into shoot-first mode and survive in close games with the uber-efficient Spurs.

Fisher shot exceptionally well in game 1, but he's a defensive liability and offers little else in the way of tangible production. Thunder fans should hope that his heavy minutes in game 1 was a function of his hot shooting and not a series-long strategy on the part of Brooks.

Serge Ibaka fulfills the requirement for NBA championship contenders to control the area around the rim. Dominant front court players almost always have a greater impact than dominant guards, that's why Michael Jordan was so freaking special. His athleticism and ability to recover is essential to the Thunder in stopping the Spurs ball-movement and penetration. If you insist on matching the Spurs small ball lineups, keep Ibaka in the game and sit Perkins and Collins. If you are only going to play one true big then play the good one...it's not that hard. If anyone can offer an explanation for why Brooks did this I'd love to hear it, I feel I must be missing something that would make this appear at least a step above idiotic.

Kevin Garnett

As Jeff Van Gundy noted in a brief preview of the Eastern Conference Finals, KG is basically a jump shooter at this point in his career. He doesn't really have the explosion to blow past guys and get to the rim, that was starting to dissipate in the 2010 playoffs. What he has now is his classic turnaround, his range on pick'n'pop deep 2's, and whatever he can get through putbacks and fast breaks (if father time doesn't rim check him). He's still a great passer as well, although he doesn't create as much opportunity for others as before.

That said, he's still the 2nd best player on the Celtics and has a great potential impact in the series against the Heat because of his defense. He still challenges shooters at the rim, he still adjust shots, and his 13 rebound performance in game 7 demonstrated that he can still clean the glass.

The Heat don't have a big who can do that. Joel Anthony performs capably at times but he's not a shot blocker and he doesn't stretch a defense like KG can. The Heat rely on James and Wade rebounding well above average for their positions and getting to the rim. Both of them (particularly James) struggle if their route to the rim is guarded by a well-positioned 7-footer.

That gives the Celtics a chance. If they want to finish the series they'll need 1). KG to continue to offer defense, rebounding, and floor spacing 2). Continued brilliance by Rondo and 3). Health and healthy shooting from Pierce and Allen.

For KG to re-discover his 05 offensive form and torch the Heat inside for a few 30-15's might do the trick but I think the more likely recipe for success is for Pierce to match his better games with Rondo's and Allen to start hitting his 3's.

On the flipside, the Heat need continued dominance from James and Wade. Ignore the hyped losses of Bradley and Bosh, the Heat are arguably better with James at the 4 and Battier or Miller in to help space the floor for James and Wade to wreak havoc. Bosh is not going to make Garnett a weaker post-defender, he's not going to help rebound against the physical Celtics, he simply doesn't offer that much that the Heat can't replace.

On the other end, losing Bradley as an answer to Wade is rough but they still have Pietrus and it would be hard to argue that Boston's team defense has been weaker since our one and done has been absent.

Tim Duncan

The Big Fundamental went 6-15 against the Thunder but, like Garnett, his ability to rebound and protect the rim is still huge. The ability to block/defend shots without fouling is a rare and exceedingly valuable talent. Unlike Garnett, Duncan still has his toolbox of post-up moves which vary in effectiveness depending on his stamina and opponent.

With Ibaka still primarily a defensive player potentially hamstrung by his coache's bizarre personnel decisions and Garnett moving closer in that direction in identity, Duncan remains as potentially the only classic low-post scorer in these playoffs. The Spurs don't rely on him in that role as they did in the 00's but against the faster and better trapping defenses employed by the Heat and Thunder he's an ace in the hole.

For that and other reasons (overall versatility and spectacular and flexible offense) I'm guessing the Spurs roll to a 5th Duncan-Popovich championship.

Thoughts?

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Comments

Display:

Scott Brooks

is voting for Steven Jackson.

by Nickel Rover on May 28, 2025 1:16 PM CDT reply actions  

This can serve as an open thread

if anyone’s watching the ECF premiere tonight rather than Saving Private Ryan on extended, unedited loop on ABC.

by Nickel Rover on May 28, 2025 6:43 PM CDT reply actions  

nice write up

I liken the spurs to the longhorns in re national media coverage. everyone knows who they are but they aren’t regularly watched by the masses of east and west coast pundits. the media types just aren’t typically paying attention. how else can you explain reggie bush beating vince for heisman. same with duncan. people say he’s a great defensive player, but they don’t realize he is THE great defensive player of his generation. And he is still playing at a phenomenally high level. people also don’t realize how much his defensive play jump starts the offense and frees up his teammates to do what they do best.

A once in a lifetime player.

by Noonan100 on May 28, 2025 6:47 PM CDT reply actions  

I dont know if anyone read John Hollinger piece prior to the series

It was a great break down and the stat I walked away with that was branded into my mind was that prior to the series, in the last 47 games that Tony Parker has played in for the Spurs the team is 43-4.

43-4 against NBA competition is crazy. Now after game one its up to 44-4 with TP healthy. I can’t remember if the Bulls ever reeled off a 50 game stretch comprable to that, but I was blown away. I never expected the Spurs to be this dominant.

I think Durant & Westbrook are good enough to win 1-2 games in this series but I think it goes down Spurs in 5.

by HornsUpInLA on May 28, 2025 6:50 PM CDT reply actions  

harden

People seem to forget him. In the end, it was a tight game and westbrook and harden went 14 for 38. That probably is not going to happen a lot. It certainly doesn’t bode well for a quick series for the Spurs. 2 of 3 Thunder pistons weren’t firing. If they are firing on all cylinders this is at least going 7

by codaxx on May 28, 2025 7:21 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Don't expect too much

Westbrook is just the kind of player the Spurs will drive crazy. Their disciplined team defense will get under his skin and you will see just the kind of play you did from him in the 4th quarter last night.
Also, the Spurs made a ton of bad passes and stupid turnovers at the beginning of game one. I think those mistakes will be corrected as the series goes on. Spurs is 5 or 6.

by Ruslanchik on May 28, 2025 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Could say the same thing about Duncan and Parker

Who went a combined 12 for 30.

Also, I don’t think you are going to see as poor a night from 3 pt. range from Leonard, Green, Bonner and Diaw very often.

But I agree that I don’t see a really short series either. I think it goes at least 6.

by Horncasting on May 28, 2025 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

7/17 with 5/9 from three isn’t bad at all. 19 points on 17 shots is actually very similar to the scoring production the spurs got from parker(18 points on 15 shots).

by Timmy Teat on May 28, 2025 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Parker

not like he has shot well all playoffs.

by codaxx on May 29, 2025 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Parker is shooting 47% from the field in the playoffs

Very good for a guard. Especially good for a guard in the playoffs. Better than both Harden and Westbrook.

by Horncasting on May 29, 2025 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's only because of some meaningless three pointers at the end

That made his final stat line look good in Game 1. Harden played poorly in that first game.

by TheElusiveShadow on May 30, 2025 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

It could happen

The Spurs found a way to mostly neutralize Chris Paul, I think they can continue to make life difficult for the Thunder guards.
The trick is the offensive gameplanning by the Thunder. They ran a lot of Iso in the 4th. If Durant hadn’t been able to get to the line, or Harden hadn’t hit so many 3’s late the Spurs would have won by a very comfortable margin.

Harden and Westbrook aren’t going to get going unless the Thunder play some smarter and more team oriented half-court offense.

by Nickel Rover on May 29, 2025 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Paul

He was inured, so that wasnt a healthy Chris Paul.

by codaxx on May 29, 2025 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

okay

healthy enough to take down the Grizzlies. They’ve won 19 games in a row, it’s not an accident.

by Nickel Rover on May 29, 2025 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

rondo

Is the key for the Celtics. He needs to play up to his potential. Heat will end up putting LeBron on him if he has success. Wouldn’t surprise me if he is on him by 4Q of game 1. That will end up taking its toll. Not sure if LeBron’s body can take the minutes that the Heat need him to play. Ray Allen taking a dip in the fountain of youth for a series would go a long way also

by codaxx on May 28, 2025 7:28 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

it's gonna be hard to put James on Rondo

if they have him playing the 4 in lieu of Bosh’s injury. Maybe they feel okay about playing small with Battier on Bass.

After game 1 and the Philly series I think this series is going to come down to Pierce and Allen matching Garnett and Rondo. They aren’t beating the Heat by running offense through Bass and without those 2 hitting much closer to 50%.

Ultimately James at the 4 is going to kill the Celtics. Do you put play small ball and try to match what Wade and James do in an open court? If you go big with Garnett at the 4 you have him guarding LeBron, which isn’t going to work out very well.

All the worry about not having Bradley to match up with Wade is secondary to the problem of controlling small ball Heat lineup with James at the 4. And this isn’t a problem unique to the Celtics. Adjusting to the loss of Bosh may be the best thing that could have happened for the Heat.

by Nickel Rover on May 29, 2025 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Perkins can guard Duncan

a lot better than Ibaka. Ibaka is a great weak side, help shot blocker, not so great on the ball. If he is the only big in the game, the Spurs will draw him off Duncan and dish it to him and get layups that way. The Thunder should play both Perkins and Ibaka in the 4th.

by Hookah Horns on May 29, 2025 7:17 AM CDT reply actions  

I've heard this explanation since I wrote this

although my column praises Duncan and what he offers the Spurs, I don’t think the Thunder defensive gameplan should center around stopping him in the low post. Take your chances with ibaka. If you put Perkins on Duncan and they run offense and cutters with Duncan’s passing there is no chance Perkins recovers to help.

I would take my chances with Ibaka on Duncan, make the old man carry the Spurs offense. If he can do it you don’t have a great chance in this series anyways.

Ultimately I think your suggestion is best: There’s no need to respond to a small ball Spurs lineup of Jackson at the 4, make the Spurs adjust to your big lineup. I’m guessing this is where the Thunder’s lack of a low-post scorer is rough in trying to make the Spurs pay if they don’t have anyone to guard Perkins or Ibaka on the block. Still, you can pound the glass and make Jackson prove that Ibaka can’t guard him adequately.

by Nickel Rover on May 29, 2025 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

So my answer

is actually LeBron James. He’s the most dangerous Power Forward remaining in the playoffs. I would then rank them: Duncan, Garnett, Ibaka. But really, Ibaka is the only of those 3 who’s really playing PF. Duncan and Garnett are essentially Centers now, particularly Garnett.

by Nickel Rover on May 29, 2025 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

the thunder can try to pound the glass staying big when the spurs go small, but i don’t see it really being that effective. the spurs will use their ball movement to force ibaka to close out on shooters(or give up wide open 3s), so it’s not like he’s going to be a massive inside presence trying to recover from the 3 point line. and when the thunder are on offense, the spurs will be happy to let ibaka take all the midrange jumpers he wants.

oklahoma city has just flat out been better than the teams they’ve played at this point so their lack of post offense hasn’t been a probably, but i don’t see that working against the spurs.

by Timmy Teat on May 29, 2025 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Perkins guarding Duncan is a recipe for Perkins fouling iut

Or playing very few minutes due to foul trouble. In these playoffs he’s seemed to regress to a slow footed, big body who is more about being intimidating than actually playing good defense. Historically that is not a strategy that works against the even keeled
Duncan. As a Spurs fan, the athletic Ibaka worries me more.

by Horncasting on May 29, 2025 8:42 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

That would be a positive

Perkins is a huge net negative in this series for the Thunder.

by Scipio Tex on May 29, 2025 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

lebron

is a point shooting swing forward. Not sure he qualifies.

by Vasherized on May 29, 2025 1:07 PM CDT reply actions  

he's

a damion james style Power forward at least half the time. Only with far more tools and talent, obviously.
When they play chalmers-wade-battier-James-anthony he’s basically a PF.

by Nickel Rover on May 30, 2025 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sunday night

Popovich > Brooks - doesn’t even need explanation.

Perkins is a much bigger liability than Fisher by 10X.

Kendrick Perkins is a huge liability in this series and Scott Brooks doesn’t see it. Nor do most fans. The Spurs don’t use their posts traditionally - where Perkins does have value as a positional defender - and Perkins lacks the quickness to challenge dribblers or to recover to the boards (2 rebounds in 28 minutes, embarrassing). Offensively, he’s a goddamn nightmare guaranteed to blow gimmes such that the Spurs are now essentially ignoring him. Collison and Mohammed should be playing the bulk of the minutes. The conventional wisdom on Perk vs what he actually does on the floor vs. teams like the Spurs couldn’t be more disconnected. If you want to understand how Ginobili can go 9 of 14 scoring 26 points driving to the rim, look no further than Kendrick.

by Scipio Tex on May 29, 2025 1:57 PM CDT reply actions  

clearly you didn't see the 08 finals

Kendrick Perkins is a beast!

I’m of the same mind, although I wonder if Fisher’s net impact on a night when he doesn’t go 6-8 might be similarly catastrophic. I would take my chances with Ibaka on Duncan when going small and hope that Duncan doesn’t hit enough 20 footers and back down Ibaka well enough to cripple me for that game. Or at least play Collison.

At times Ibaka is the best player on the Thunder and none of them seem remotely aware of it.

by Nickel Rover on May 29, 2025 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

can't agree at all.

ibaka seems to be vastly overrated(at least here) to me.

the idea that at times he’s the best player on the thunder is crazy. i get that he’s a very young big who excels at blocking shots. but his offensive game is limited to offensive rebounds, dunks created by others, and jump shots that every team in the league is begging him to take and his actual defense isn’t even close to being represented by his shot blocking prowess.

he’s the exact type of player that gets a 10 mil plus contract as soon as he hits free agency and never actually brings that value to the team.

by Timmy Teat on May 30, 2025 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

offensive rebounds, dunks created by others, jump shots he's begged to take

these are highly undervalued attributes. Note that not everyone in the NBA scores so many points on “dunks created by others” and offensive rebounds are immensely valuable. That’s an extra possession for your team and very likely it will result in even more efficient offense than the prior possession because you often automatically get the ball deep in the post.

He may not be a brilliant man defender yet but his shot-blocking definitely has a major impact on other teams’ shooting percentages on lay-ups. Reggieball can explain this with statistics if you like. It’s not just the shots that are blocked, although there is no shortage of those, it’s the shots that are altered.

All that to say: He has a huge impact on defense and he’s often a very efficient and important offensive weapon by doing what many other players can’t: Score 10-15 points without having to take a single low-percentage shot.

Also he’s a good rebounder on a team with a center who sucks at rebounding. If the Thunder are unable to sign him (unlikely, it seems) you will notice the difference in the wins column next year.

by Nickel Rover on May 30, 2025 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

my point is that he’s overrated as a defender due to his shotblocking and he doesn’t create any offense for himself other than rebounds.

he still has a ton of positives to his game. and he’s very young. he is not, however, the best player on the thunder at times and he almost certainly isn’t going to be worth the contract he signs for(that’s just how the nba and young big men work).

by Timmy Teat on May 30, 2025 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good bigs

are almost always worth big deals. It’s hard to find effective basketball players who are 6’10" or better. Take a walk down a busy street and you’ll notice that these human beings are rare.

As far as creating offense…you seem to have a bias against people who can score near the basket. How is scoring through easy lay-ups, dunks, and put-backs not creating offense? Because he doesn’t dribble? He creates easy offense by virtue of being really tall and athletic. Other players can’t score in that way.

by Nickel Rover on May 31, 2025 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

ibaka doesn't have a post game.

it really isn’t all that hard to find big men who can score garbage points.

by Timmy Teat on Jun 1, 2025 2:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh man
Fisher shot exceptionally well in game 1, but he’s a defensive liability and offers little else in the way of tangible production. Thunder fans should hope that his heavy minutes in game 1 was a function of his hot shooting and not a series-long strategy on the part of Brooks.

I guess it’s the latter. Maybe I’m just an idiot, but I’m just utterly befuddled as to why Derek Fisher is playing heavy minutes. I’m sure people will point to his positive +/- stat this game, but everyone knows how incredibly misleading that is. Every once a while he’ll hit a jumper, but his offensive output is easily nullified by his glaring deficiencies everywhere else. He can’t rebound, he puts stress on their defense because he can’t handle anyone one on one, and he can’t break down a defense off the dribble. He’s 6’1. What is he doing on the floor, Scott Brooks? Can a reporter please ask him that?

by TheElusiveShadow on May 29, 2025 10:49 PM CDT reply actions  

that didn't take long

to reveal itself as a bad trend for the thunder. I was afraid brooks would be tempted to use him in key playoff moments. Bad signing, imo.

by Nickel Rover on May 30, 2025 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

can't blame fisher for maynor being hurt.

the fisher situation is irrelevant if maynor was healthy.

as it is, it’s either going to be fisher, cook, or ivey getting those minutes. does it really matter at that point? ivey is better defensively but isn’t giving the thunder anything on offense and when they are going to have guys like thabo and perkins on the floor too, it’s hard to justify putting another no offense guy on the floor with them. with fisher and cook, it really doesn’t matter. it’s one spot up shooter that is bad defensively against another and fisher brings the mythical “veteran experience” which is overvalued by every nba team so he gets to play.

by Timmy Teat on May 30, 2025 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, it matters a great deal

Because Derek Fisher was one of the most useless guards in the league when he was playing for the Lakers (look up his production). Cook can’t be worse. Also, I don’t see why putting in Thabo in when they go small is not a better option. Sefalosha isn’t an offensive powerhouse or anything, but at least he’ll play defense, which is how the Thunder get their easiest shots in transition, and at least he has the length to challenge on the boards. Fisher’s shot comes and goes and he is worthless everywhere else. You can just see Tony Parker’s eyes light up when he sees Fisher on him.

by TheElusiveShadow on May 30, 2025 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

agreed

I actually like Sefolosha. You can afford to play him when you have Durant, Westbrook, and Harden on your team. He can hit corner 3’s, defend, and rebound.

by Nickel Rover on May 30, 2025 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Game 2 looked a lot like I expected

Perkins useless again over 25 minutes. 3 pts, 5 rebounds, 4 turnovers. I think he touched the ball 8 times, so 4 turnovers is quite a feat. Not sure how he could play more than 10 after Game 1. It’s not like you want Collison’s energy or Mohammed’s scoring.

Durant and Harden played well. The rest of the Thunder have no answers on offense or defense. It would be nice to see Scott Brooks draw up a fucking play instead of repeat a verb seven times during time outs.

Popovich still has Brooks fooled into thinking that the Spurs run offense through Duncan. The Spurs bigs are passing and picking platforms. You let them score what they score.

by Scipio Tex on May 30, 2025 12:10 PM CDT reply actions  

good thoughts all

great point on “passing and picking platforms”. I will say though, that Splitter/Diaw/Duncan’s great passing and finishing combined with Parker/Ginobili’s penetration skills makes for a pretty hopeless situation.

You can try and deny the ball to the platforms, but how are you going to stop Parker then? What was his line in game 2? 13-18? Something like that. That’s devastation.

I think the Thunder will fare better in game 3 thanks to more favorable officiating that will allow more physical D. Still might lose though, this is one of the best teams I’ve seen in a while.
Disappointing that Perkins has become little better than Jeff Green. At least he doesn’t clog up a position played by Durant.

by Nickel Rover on May 30, 2025 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

you don't deny the ball to them

Zone up inside when the Spurs non-3 pt shooting bigs are in the game, clog the paint, and extend on Parker and Ginobili. I’d rather have them shooting mid-range pull ups instead of layups and open 3s.

by Scipio Tex on May 30, 2025 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

How often

are the Spurs playing more than 1 non-shooting big? They don’t play Splitter and Duncan at the same time and Diaw and Bonner are good outside shooters.

And they frequently have extra shooters on the court as well. Granted there are better ways to defend them but there aren’t really any schematic solutions that the Spurs don’t have good answers for. They always have good spacing.

by Nickel Rover on May 31, 2025 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions  


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