On Quarterback Leadership
Eli Manning famously didn't have it. He didn't have his older brother's perfectionist assertiveness, his dopey demeanor suggested passivity, and former teammates talked about players openly laughing at him when he tried to give motivational speeches. It's not just that he wasn't a leader - he was held as a model for how a clear lack of leadership undermines team performance; Eli Manning: locker room laughingstock, media punching bag.
Then Manning won a Super Bowl over the Patriots on the heels of a miracle turnaround season and, though that win was fueled by the Giants defense and a miracle catch, the narrative began to shift. His passivity was actually coolness under fire. His reticence the stuff of Marlboro Men. He just "had something." After he led the Giants to their second Super Bowl win, this was all confirmed. Not only was he now deemed a good QB, he was "elite", a "proven winner" - my favorite tautology in sport. And a really good leader after all!
The thing that changed was Eli's level of play. And the confidence that it inspired in his teammates and himself. But not his core personality. Not his gritty intangibles. Not moxie. As his level of play elevated, media, teammates, and fans suddenly discovered hidden depths of leadership previously undiscovered and unknown.
Leadership isn't a personality type, it's a capacity. A reservoir of teammate confidence.
If you prefer a college example - Colt McCoy. Remember the 2007 Colt is a nice-kid-that-lacks-killer-instinct meme? The anti-Vince. An amazing junior year confirmed what we'd known all along: nice guys finish first. We saw it all along, buddy! You'll find a similar pattern in most every UT QB of note.
Which brings us to present day. Is Case McCoy a better leader than David Ash? He's demonstrative and vocal, where Ash is reflective and quiet. Is Jalen Overstreet the only true leader on the depth chart because of his charisma and toughness? What about the coachable Connor Brewer?
David Ash said something pretty perceptive on QB leadership yesterday which cut through all of the bullshit fairly cleanly.
People say leadership is a lot of different things, but when it comes down to it, it is a really abstract term that has a different meaning to everyone. I think guys want to follow the guy who is going to put them in the endzone. That is my goal.
If Ash throws for 2800 yards, 23 TDs, 8 INTs, and a 145 QB rating in 2012, his performance will be, in part, attributed to his cool, assassin's demeanor. If he struggles again, he's too distant and can't command a huddle.
If Case McCoy is enthusiastic and offers rousing speeches on his way to throwing five pick 6s, his teammates will regard him as a blowhard, not a leader. But if he rallies us in a close game, even David Tyree style, he's a natural leader, his fiery demeanor drawing the best from his teammates.
Leadership does exist in and of itself as a natural quality and my intent is not to suggest otherwise, but QBs who keep taking their teams into the end zone tend to find themselves imbued with tremendous leadership attributes. After the fact. And their dominant personality trait is generally offered as the reason for their deficit or abundance of leadership. That's the stuff of horoscopes, not analysis. Leadership is nothing more mystical than the confidence you inspire in your teammates. And that confidence usually stems from your play on the field.
I think guys want to follow the guy who is going to put them in the end zone.
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Well now. THAT'S a blog post.
I expect nothing less from you, btw.
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by TXStampede on Aug 6, 2025 5:16 PM CDT reply actions
I liked that quote as well
Funny that others on the Longhorn interweb have used it to say he still obviously doesn’t get “it”.
by Big(g) Ern on Aug 6, 2025 5:33 PM CDT reply actions
Well, I won’t argue with anyone that offers that Ash has a lot to prove - yes, even as a leader, but I’m surprised they don’t see the basic truth of what he said.
by Scipio Tex on Aug 6, 2025 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I have no idea how it translates to results on the field, but that quote along with several others from his interviews yesterday made me appreciate the fact that Ash is a pretty sharp guy that obviously thinks about things on a deeper level that most sophomore collegiate athletes.
by Big(g) Ern on Aug 6, 2025 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions
The basic truth
true leadership raises the production of every individual. contemplating the leadership VY had on the defense in mnc game boggles my mind, they believed and upped their play when it counted.
by 55f100tx on Aug 6, 2025 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Only had to get out my Scipopedia once...
for “tautology”.
Very interesting read. Made me think of all the bullshit descriptions of leadership in business and in interviews.
@jimmygards
by ColoradoAg on Aug 6, 2025 5:39 PM CDT reply actions
This really resonates
One of the things I find most maddening about sports commentary is how we can pretty much rationalize everything after the fact. Not only that, but we can turn on a dime and see the narrative completely reverse directions to do it. See the Manning brothers, LeBron James, Roy Williams, Mack Brown, etc.
Nowhere is this foolishness more apparent than when it comes to discussing leadership in sports. This is clearly an area where we need to all stop talking out of our ass. As Scipio rightly points out, it is hard to lead if you can’t play — and there may not be much more to it than that. Seriously, all of this shit gets easy when you are winning and playing well. Anyone can look like a leader then. It isn’t an accident that the leaders of a team are usually the best players.
This is not to deny the existence of leadership. I think it is probably real. But I also think that we as outsiders have zero chance of figuring out how much it matters within a given team. We focus on results, so we assign winning teams as having good leadership and losing teams as having bad leadership. Wouldn’t it be easer to assume that winning teams simply had better players and coaches?
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by Reggieball on Aug 6, 2025 5:50 PM CDT reply actions
See the Longhorn pantheon of QBs
Layne. Regarded as an incredible leader because he was an elite QB and charismatic as hell. Would his hangovers and playing on two hours of sleep be seen as leader qualities if he sucked?
Street. Beneficiary of a brand new system that he understood how to run despite marginal ability. Knack for making big plays in high profile games. Is he regarded as a great leader if those Longhorn teams had average defenses and went 9-2?
VY. Teammates had supreme confidence in him - after the Michigan Rose Bowl. Before that, clearly talented and exciting, but pulled from games, not a study the playbook type. In college, a great leader. NFL, branded by media as the worst possible.
Colt, discussed above.
by Scipio Tex on Aug 6, 2025 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions
just curious
where does Blake Gideon fit into this? He never really brought many observable results to the table, but is still largely considered a “coach on the field”-type guy.
Maybe he has the inherent leadership quality, but just not the visible results?
by vortic on Aug 7, 2025 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
He could line guys up
He had a good knowledge of the defense and the appropriate adjustments. I think he was certainly respected for his seniority and effort and his teammates deferred to his knowledge of scheme. That’s a form of schematic leadership. Earl Thomas provided a very different variety of leadership.
by Scipio Tex on Aug 7, 2025 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Like it
I think you and I touched on this in another thread. The “it” thing is complete bullshit. Generally, the media decides after a QB leads the team to success that he possess “it”. Still waiting for an announcer to say “the Qb had a rating of 65 and the team one 2 games, but damn that SOB is a leader”. Right up there with “clutch” in my stupid sports myths
by codaxx on Aug 6, 2025 5:55 PM CDT reply actions
Alex Oakafor's words of wisdom from player avaliability
People don’t want to see you talk, they want to see you work.
"I can talk about sports and turn my hat around and talk about what is happening with Iran, Israel, immigration, Medicare, Medicaid." - Craig James, ESPN analyst, Presidential Hopeful, Inspiration for the common man.
by Dustin Brockelman on Aug 6, 2025 6:11 PM CDT reply actions
Sadly, in this era
a lot don’t care what you do. As long as you’re media savvy.
by edsp on Aug 6, 2025 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions
http://www.texassports.com/allaccess/?media=324297
"I can talk about sports and turn my hat around and talk about what is happening with Iran, Israel, immigration, Medicare, Medicaid." - Craig James, ESPN analyst, Presidential Hopeful, Inspiration for the common man.
by Dustin Brockelman on Aug 6, 2025 6:11 PM CDT reply actions
In 1981 Robert Brewer was a 6-0, 180 lb jr. walk-on.
He was a “legacy” as his dad, Charlie was a QB in the early 50’s at UT.
Robert saw mop up duty behind Rick McIvor and Rob Moerschell. Texas started the season 4-0 and went into Arkansas ranked #1 after thumping OU 34-14. It was a disaster from start to finish with Arkansas brutally dropping Texas 42-11. Brewer hit a former QB, Donnie Little for the only Texas score with less than a minute to go.
On the plane back, Brewer talked about giving up football to concentrate on studies. He decided being a part of the team was too important. Three weeks later, trailing Houston 14-0 at halftime in the Dome, Coach Akers inserts Brewer. He leads the team on three scoring drives and a 14-14 tie.
Two months later he is the MVP of the Cotton Bowl as #5 Texas stuns Bear Bryant and #3 Alabama 14-12.
The next year Brewer took over a very young Texas offense and is the only QB Fred Akers ever truly trusted to control a game from the huddle. That 1982 team suffered a freakish last minute loss to SMU, but Brewer’s calm, confident demeanor kept the players on task and they finished the regular season with six straights wins (including victories over Arkansas and A&M) averaging 39 points a game.
Brewer was nothing special in High School, and didn’t stand out at Texas until he got on the field, and the players recognized what he had.
Brewer said that when he was thinking about leaving the team he talked to his good friend, Herkie Walls. Walls, a 5-8 wide receiver with Olympic speed, told Robert:
"Brew baby, you’ve got to stick around, �cause the cream always rises to the top."
To paraphrase a Supreme Court Justice, players may not be able to define leadership, but they know it when they see it.
by srr50 on Aug 6, 2025 6:14 PM CDT reply actions
I thought that was Justice Stewart on porn?....
I can’t define it intelligibly, but i know it when i see it?
"I can talk about sports and turn my hat around and talk about what is happening with Iran, Israel, immigration, Medicare, Medicaid." - Craig James, ESPN analyst, Presidential Hopeful, Inspiration for the common man.
by Dustin Brockelman on Aug 6, 2025 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions
what
So a guy talking about quiting turns out to have “it” 2 months later. I think you just proved Scipio’s point
by codaxx on Aug 6, 2025 6:23 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think I was trying to back his point up.
I think guys want to follow the guy who is going to put them in the end zone.
Given the chance to prove that he could do just that, Robert Brewer turned into a leader.
by srr50 on Aug 6, 2025 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I took the article differently
I took as mocking the the idea of QBs being leaders. As many times they are said to be terrible leaders and once they win they magically find the ability to be leaders. If leadership was an “it” thing, you would have it before you win. The fact is players follow productive players. Ray Lewis was a suspected murderer until he won a ring, now a leader. Some of the greatest athletes were complete jackasses, but once they win the media fits them with words like leader. We romanticize sports heroes. The more they succeed, the more BS we apply to them
by codaxx on Aug 6, 2025 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I think we are talking across each other
That’s my point as well. Robert Brewer was walk on given little thought until he got his chance and produced.
Hell, he never red shirted because he was the mop up guy. Had he red shirted he would have been the starting QB on the 1983 team.
by srr50 on Aug 6, 2025 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually, what opened the door for Brewer
was the defense locking McIvor in his locker at halftime, and Fred Akers having to play Brewer when he couldn’t find McIvor.
by edsp on Aug 6, 2025 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Brewer was my first Longhorn QB
In the sense of being a player I loved and I was old enough to follow a football game. Loved Brew and remember his QB draw against Bama well. He threw a nice, catchable ball, he ran well enough to get it done, and he was the only QB in the Akers era who seemed to really push back on Fred and run the show out there.
by Scipio Tex on Aug 7, 2025 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
By the way:
Herkie was McCurey Hercules Walls, very popular on campus.
by JDBecker on Aug 8, 2025 1:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Other bloggers
think that Ash’s answer was just a way of saying “I don’t know what leadership is.” But, when I saw the quote, I came to the same conclusion you drew. This kid not only knows what leadership is, his mental wherewithal to articulate it in what could be a tense moment under the lights bodes well for his ability to translate that to performance now that he has a full year of playbook under his belt. I think we may be pleasantly surprised at the butterfly that emerges from the sophomore’s freshman chrysalis.
by Zzzizzzy on Aug 6, 2025 6:32 PM CDT reply actions
Interesting.
I guess I just come at this differently. I’m not sure what his comments mean to actual play, but there’s a lot more depth to David than most kids his age IMO.
by Scipio Tex on Aug 7, 2025 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions
This is absolutely on the money
And the same thing goes for head coaches. If Mack Brown doesn’t win, it’s because he’s too folksy . . . If Mark Richt doesn’t win at Georgia, it’s because he’s too stoic. . . .
Will Muschamp, on the other hand, was perceived as a can’t miss because he’s rough and tough and full of stuff. And Muschamp may well win. (I hope he does.) But a person’s style is ultimately evaluated on how successful he is.
You hit the nail on the head.
by Cirque Du Salado on Aug 6, 2025 7:22 PM CDT reply actions
Once you've won 20 games in the show,
you can let your shower shoes get as moldy as you want, and people will say you’re eccentric. But for now, you’re just a slob.
by withaplum on Aug 8, 2025 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Well done.
Look for the companion piece on Romo in a couple days’ time.
by nobis60 on Aug 6, 2025 8:01 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Leadership amongst Teenagers & Young Adults is fluid...
There are different leadership styles as well as personality traits that Scipio has mentioned.
I think its also important to point out that knowing oneself and what gifts, skills you have is paramount to being a genuine & authentic leader. How many 18-22 year olds really know themselves well enough or understand there place within an athletic program to effectively be a leader?
For some, like Vince its intuitive, he was just being himself and it worked. For Ash, I liked his answer about leadership being abstract because for him it probably feels that way. He may have to “think” his way through being a leader while also managing everything else a QB has to do.
There are plenty of 30+ yr olds who find themselves in management for the first time and shat the bed because the skills that work for them are not effective for the group. It takes time to put the pieces together mental/psychology just as it does to put physical/kinetic skills together.
I expect for both Ash & McCoy this will be a work in progress, but what else should we expect from two college kids.
by HornsUpInLA on Aug 6, 2025 8:14 PM CDT reply actions
Ash Accounting Himself Well
Really like the way Ash is handling “the competition”, which about as frivolous as the Seinfeld episode. Sure looks like Mack;s head games arent affecting this kid one bit.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
by realmccoy on Aug 6, 2025 8:32 PM CDT reply actions
Montana might be the exception that proves Scip's rule.
That scrawny little dude had leadership, ‘it’, moxy, and maybe even a little chutzpah.
We're going to play like we're in a bad mood.
by JoeT63 on Aug 7, 2025 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Nah, but she had a better arm.
We're going to play like we're in a bad mood.
by JoeT63 on Aug 7, 2025 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Montana proves Scip's rule, but not an exception...
If he’d been drafted by any other team, he’d have spent a couple of years as a backup and his “leadership” qualities would have been constrained by his inability to throw a deep out. Fortunately for him, he went to the one place where the coach didn’t put a deep out in his playbook; where he wanted someone smart, quick and preternaturally accurate.
You run an offense nobody else in the league does, and go against defenses built for every other team in the league except yours, and you have great success. And voila! You now have “…leadership, ‘it’, moxy, and maybe even a little chutzpah.” Because in the immortal words of a true soph sage: “…guys want to follow the guy who is going to put them in the endzone.”
by Pflash on Aug 7, 2025 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions
With apologies to Huckleberry
That’s excellent.
by Vasherized on Aug 6, 2025 10:46 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
xkcd is the best
I am on Twitter @jeffchaley
Burnt Orange Nation
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by Reggieball on Aug 7, 2025 5:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Define Leadership
These are not original ideas but reading through all this and listening to Ash’s comments leads me to include 2 things:
1. Hard work - a leader will work hard in order to give an example to the rest of the team but even more to produce #2 in both themselves and others.
2. Results - just as Ash said. Success is leadership, because people want to follow others whom they KNOW will be successful. That’s why VY and Colt were leaders, the 2 most clear UT QB examples in my lifetime. I knew Texas was going to win with those 2 as QBs (in their later years) because I had visual, experiential evidence of them doing it before. Watching a TV, I felt the confidence. I was motivated. I can only imagine on the field the effect was more pronounced.
Leadership = Working hard to improve + Doing it the time before.
by Monahorns on Aug 6, 2025 11:10 PM CDT reply actions
I follow 10-15 of these guys on twitter
A developing theme I see is Case hanging with these guys in workouts and outside of football. Where is Ash? I never see his named mentioned. Is he an outcast and that’s his barrier?
Did you read my comment, or did you merely see that it disagreed and begin composing your response immediately? by BrooklynHorn
by run Bevo run on Aug 6, 2025 11:53 PM CDT reply actions
Ash isn’t an outcast. But he’s not a late night 6th Street dude. His primary barrier was being a true freshman thrown to the lions.
by Scipio Tex on Aug 7, 2025 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
the comments on the Steven A Smith link
you posted to Eli Manning are too funny. Mr. Smith looked like an absolute tool in retrospect. I have no idea what makes a leader and most certainly, neither does Steven A. Smith. Interesting article Scipio. Kid nailed it. I hate leadership talk—mostly, just do your job to the best of your ability.
by mdhorn on Aug 7, 2025 9:35 AM CDT reply actions
Giants werent just lucky
Read this excerpt of Giant GM Ernie Accorsi’s scouting report on Eli. Scary good.
SUMMARY: I THINK HE’S THE COMPLETE PACKAGE. HE’S NOT GOING TO BE A FAST RUNNER, BUT A LITTLE LIKE JOE MONTANA, HE HAS ENOUGH ATHLETIC ABILITY TO GET OUT OF TROUBLE. REMEMBER HOW ARCHIE RAN? IN THAT DEPARTMENT, ELI DOESN’T HAVE THE BEST GENES, ALTHOUGH I NEVER TIMED MOM OLIVIA IN THE 40. BUT HE HAS A FEEL FOR THE POCKET. FEELS THE RUSH THROWS THE BALL, TAKES THE HIT, GETS RIGHT BACK UP… HAS COURAGE AND POISE. IN MY OPINION, MOST OF ALL, HE HAS THAT QUALITY THAT YOU CAN’T DEFINE. CALL IT MAGIC. AS [FORMER BALTIMORE COLTS DEFENSIVE BACK] BOBBY BOYD TOLD ME ONCE ABOUT UNITAS, "TWO THINGS SET HIM APART: HIS LEFT TESTICLE AND HIS RIGHT TESTICLE"… PEYTON HAD MUCH BETTER TALENT AROUND HIM AT TENNESSEE. BUT I HONESTLY GIVE THIS GUY A CHANCE TO BE BETTER THAN HIS BROTHER. ELI DOESNT GET MUCH HELP FROM THE COACHING STAFF. IF HE COMES OUT EARLY, WE SHOULD MOVE UP TO TAKE HIM. THESE GUYS ARE RARE, YOU KNOW. PEOPLE WILL SAY HE ISNT CONFIDENT. PEOPLE WILL SAY HE IS SOCIALLY AWKWARD AND INCAPABLE OF LEADING. THEY ARE WRONG. THIS KID IS A WINNER. LET’S DO WHATEVER WE CAN TO GET HIM. IT WILL BE THE DEFINING MOMENT OF THE FRANCHISE.
by bullzak on Aug 7, 2025 9:49 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
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