Stoops Brothers: Together Again

Serious Question: Was one of them adopted? Cause they don’t look like blood relatives.

I have no idea if Stoops was that good, or if GD was just that predictable, but they ate our lunch when they were together. I hope it was the latter, because I don’t want to lose to the chinless ones too often over the next decade.

well, well, everyone’s favorite wife beater is once again employed…

Meh. His defenses since he left paperclip U didn’t impress me, though admittedly there was no way he could have equal talent to work with.

Frankly, I think we’re looking at more of the same with OU on defense, and while that historically was good enough, my own impression is that the Stoops brothers’ 15 minutes of fame are just about up. Time will tell.

The Stoop brothers are some mean, angry dudes. They usually look like they just ate a turd. They use their anger to motivate players. It seems to often work in the world of football. But I sure as hell wouldn’t want them as a coach.

What no brotherly luv for MarkyMark?

The Stoops duo lost to Mack their first year, then beat us five years straight. We scored the following points over those five losses: 14, 3, 24, 13, and 0.

The Stoops duo lost to Mack their first year, then beat us five years straight. We scored the following points over those five losses: 14, 3, 24, 13, and 0.

Damn we have our work cut out for us. There’s no sugar coating those numbers. Hopefully those days are over…

Stoopsface

Probably welcome news to most Sooner fans.

Not so sure this is the panacea some Sooners think it is. Offenses are a lot different post-2004 than pre-2004.

Just hope none of John Blake’s recruits still have eligibility.

Arizona’s defenses sucked. It’s Jackass A and Jackass A-1

My question is in regards to how he handles going from Head coach to being under his brother and co-coordinator with Venables, his former underling. Who calls the plays?

If that works out I don’t think there’s any question that this is a worrisome upgrade. OU has struggled to field more than 1 elite DB at a time in the last few years and are a secondary upgrade away from having some truly dominant defenses. Hopefully there aren’t any Derrick Straits on that roster ready to be fashioned into Longhorn killers.

I am interested to see how team dynamics play out. This could easily work against them. “More Asshole” might be the formula that’s needed here, but I doubt it.

Meh. Color me worried if we hire GD back.

I’m not sure if people around here realize that OU’s defensive gameplanning is still some of the best in the country with just Venables and (Bob) stoops. If they get the kind of DB play they were getting under Stoops the first time around their defensive becomes pretty scary.

Harsin’s new Offense tore it up last year, nothing to worry about here.

Two Stoops One Chin

Nickel,

“Who calls the plays?”

Mike does, and as far as I’ve heard it’s not a question. Brent Venables knows that the defense isn’t getting it done, and he knows his options are A) transfer to a lower level school as a DC and take a sharp pay cut, B) stay on and try to repair his reputation to get a HC job somewhere.

“My question is in regards to how he handles going from Head coach to being under his brother and co-coordinator with Venables, his former underling.”

As I mentioned before, this issue appears to be half settled. Mike S > Brent V. The other half, going from being in charge to answering to someone will be interesting. Some guys want responsibility right up until the moment they get it, and then they just want to get out with dignity. Others refuse to accept responsibility for who they are and act like they’re in charge even after getting demoted. Which one is Mike Stoops? The answer to THAT question is still very much up in the air.

“OU has struggled to field more than 1 elite DB at a time in the last few years and are a secondary upgrade away from having some truly dominant defenses”

Bingo. I think if Willie Martinez had been given another two years, he’d have the secondary lined out. C’est la vie. Mike Stoops has already been lamenting about the DBs having to do too much thinking the way the schemes are being applied now.

Texas fans should be well acquainted with the application of the Peter Principle to coaching. You know him as Duane Akina. Great secondary coach? Undeniably. Good DC? Ha ha ha ha! Mike Stoops isn’t that much different. The guy is a wizard as a DBs coach, and he’s a hell of a game planner as a DC. He’s just not cut out to be a head coach. That’s not a knock on him, but it is what it is.

The biggest boost you’ll see in the OU program is the same thing you’ve seen in the Texas program the last 12 months. The problem on the D has been complacency, and Bob Stoops knows it. Mike Stoops was the contrarian on the staff. He had no problems whatsoever coming over to Bob and absolutely ripping his head off if he thought Bob had fucked up. There hasn’t been anyone like that on the staff since then. In my opinion, that is the most obvious upside. Mike Stoops won’t hesitate to rattle cages in a way Brent V has never been comfortable doing.

TTR:

“Offenses are a lot different post-2004 than pre-2004.”

No doubt about it, but OU’s defense really isn’t that different. We’re still running the same 4-3 base with a LB/S hybrid out of what boils down to being a slightly customized Tampa 2. That’s the exact same defense we were running in 2003 and 2004. The scheme really has never been the problem. When executed properly, it’s brutally effective at the collegiate level.

one thing i have discovered in life is that you cannot repeat history. you just can’t do it. you can put all the pieces back together and it just won’t come out the same. maybe better. maybe less good. maybe just different.

the up-and-coming mike stoops who was aiming for bigger days was a somewhat different person from the mike stoops coming back down the ladder to a rung just below where he was previously, since he’s having to share coordinator duties, supposedly.

for that matter, the brent venables who was up-and-coming and headed for bigger time is faced with accepting a reduced role and the admission that he was not up to the task as a coordinator. how will he respond to that?

moreover, that program already has large problems. if mike comes in and stirs up even more trouble and some resentment from brent, bobby may look back at the troubles he’s having now with some sense of longing.

this is not a particularly good time to be a sooner or to return to the sooner fold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpRap-zHZHY

If we lost Diaz and there was an opportunity to get Venables I would be excited to have him. We’d have to get rid of Akina though and get someone who could teach zone.

“No doubt about it, but OU’s defense really isn’t that different. We’re still running the same 4-3 base with a LB/S hybrid out of what boils down to being a slightly customized Tampa 2. That’s the exact same defense we were running in 2003 and 2004. The scheme really has never been the problem. When executed properly, it’s brutally effective at the collegiate level.”

Exactly true. The cover-2 is the bane of many college QB’s and OU runs it as well as anyone I’ve ever seen.

“Mike Stoops has already been lamenting about the DBs having to do too much thinking the way the schemes are being applied now.”

I’d love to hear more about this. I know the Stoops mantra is prepared aggression. They make all their decisions in the film room and on the field they just attack at high speed in accordance with what was gameplanned. How exactly do they make this easier though? Change the way the defense is called? Or who makes the adjustments after the snap?

If they can reduce the amount of thinking required by their DB’s that’s not an exciting new development.

“The Stoops duo lost to Mack their first year, then beat us five years straight. We scored the following points over those five losses: 14, 3, 24, 13, and 0.”

Not to beat a dead horse, but I must point out that the high water mark of 24 was aided by a Babers pick 6- so a more accurate set of numbers reflecting offensive ineptitude would be 14, 3, 17, 13 and 0.

not sure who i hate more in that golf cart.

Given the right personnel, I think Harsin/White have exactly the right scheme to attack the tampa 2.

Running the ball against a two-high safety provides for a good run ratio. The problem of course is that if you can’t punish the safety for cheating to the box, and you can’t protect the QB long enough to take shots down field then you’re in for a long day. In my opinion OU’s d is predicated on taking away the run game, then forcing you to beat them deep before they get to your QB.

Right now, we don’t have the line, the QB or the receivers to keep 8 out of the box, which means our running backs better be good enough to beat an unblocked man consistently. The uncertainty of playing Harsins constant motion and misdirection will help to slow OU down a bit, but without the deep threat I don’t think it will matter.

“Right now, we don’t have the line, the QB or the receivers to keep 8 out of the box, which means our running backs better be good enough to beat an unblocked man consistently. The uncertainty of playing Harsins constant motion and misdirection will help to slow OU down a bit, but without the deep threat I don’t think it will matter.”

Bulk up and get sticky hands, Mike Davis… and/or come on down, DGB!

Harsin’s offense is designed to be flexible and destroy any type of defense provided you can execute some base concepts.
OU has traditionally killed the run, despite playing a lot of 2-high coverage, by assaulting your tendencies and mixing in big run-blitzes that result in negative plays.
They threw tons of 6-man blitzes at people this year from 2-deep shells that turned into soft-man coverage. Killed people, unless the QB could buy time and attack their safeties. Like Griffin. That dude is the best answer to modern pressure-defense I’ve seen.

I guess my point is that OU’s Tampa-2 isn’t as vulnerable to the run as you might guess because of their blitzes and style. They mix in Cover-3 and Quarters stuff that’s tough to outnumber with the running game, also.

Looks like Venables might leave for WVU though…that’s a terrible, terrible development for us.

What’s the difference. Stoops owns Mack with or without Mike.

If that works out I don’t think there’s any question that this is a worrisome upgrade. OU has struggled to field more than 1 elite DB at a time in the last few years and are a secondary upgrade away from having some truly dominant defenses. Hopefully there aren’t any Derrick Straits on that roster ready to be fashioned into Longhorn killers.

Hi! wave

Jefferson is basically a linebacker right now. I doubt they move him back to safety with Colvin and the rest of their young safeties back.

Don’t worry, we’ve got Brocktoon’s intensity and acumen to counter anything the Sooners can throw at us. I am confident that will be sufficient to maintain the 2 to 7 conference championship ratio vis a vis the troubled Stoops program now that Dodds is unilaterally extending the Avuncular Nincompoop. Happy days are here again!!

I don’t this at all. Not at all.

like

Don’t worry Brent.

According to reports, you are about to become the new DC for Dana Holgorsen at West Virginia.

The pairing of Stoops’ Cover-2 system with Holgorsen’s adaptation of the Air Raid is a terrible thing to consider. I wonder how the WVU defensive personnel on stock is…

It looks like Brent posts like he coaches defense. The concept is recognizable, but the thought is incomplete until that “oh sh*t” moment occurs and the correction is made too late.

We have to at least threaten the Sooner D with the run, hit a few timely play action passes, and break tendencies to beat them. That hasn’t changed in a decade. The difference is that we have an OC who’s ground attack is an order of magnitude better designed and organized than the majority of GD’s futile efforts, and we are building the line to block those designs for 3 talented backs.

Ash has to settle in and hit the post routes to Davis that should have been complete this year to terrorize the league. Having Shipley and a TE to be named later abuse their second level wouldn’t hurt either.

Having Mike back probably isn’t a good thing for us, but that’s not the same Sooner defensive talent we faced at the turn of the millenia, and this isn’t the same mind f***ked, whipped, and predictable offensive staff that they dominated either.

Nickel Rover said:

January 12th, 2012 at 11:22 am

Jefferson is basically a linebacker right now. I doubt they move him back to safety with Colvin and the rest of their young safeties back..

I don’t.

Mike Stoops likes big, nasty hard-hitting safeties and plays a lot of 2-LB sets. I’ll be going back to my natural position at safety which will put Colvin at CB to replace Fleming.

Nickel,

It may not matter soon. OU is confirming that Holgorsen has offered Brent Venables the WVU DC job. The Stoops brothers, Castiglione, and even Boren are pretty much full time focused on getting Brent V. to stay. (Side note: Rumored candidates to replace Venables include Randy Shannon and Jim Leavitt)

I agree about Jefferson, but don’t be shocked if Mike Stoops rearranges the secondary. Colvin has made it clear he wants to move back to CB, and he’s proven on the practice field that he’s our 2nd best cover corner. I think OU’s best secondary against spread passing teams features Colvin and Hurst at the corners and Jefferson at FS with Javon Harris at SS.

Re: simplifying the scheme

We’ve got our DBs doing too much to support the 3-4 look we went to, and Stoops wants to go back to the more aggressive nature you see from the Tampa 2. There’s too many conditional assignments. It’s almost like inverted pattern matching. Instead of attacking, they’re reacting. You get all the drawbacks of a traditional Tampa 2, with none of the upside.

Really interesting stuff Nate. How does the 3-4 change the assignments of the secondary?

I’m having trouble buying Jefferson to safety, even if Colvin is headed back to corner. It’s easier to find a hard-hitting safety for Cover-2 than a guy who can cover the slot, play close to the line, and blitz like Jefferson. That’s why they moved Roy Williams there. Someone that versatile is nice to have closer to the line of scrimmage.

Nate
" (Side note: Rumored candidates to replace Venables include Randy Shannon and Jim Leavitt)"
Jim Leavitt?!?!? Plus Mike Stoopes? Just add the Pelini Brothers & turn the trial lawyers loose
Holy shit. They may kick our asses but the youtubes would be great theatre.

OU has traditionally killed the run, despite playing a lot of 2-high coverage, by assaulting your tendencies and mixing in big run-blitzes that result in negative plays.

Which is why I like Harsins stuff so much against the sooner d, he’s great at installing constraint plays. (Maybe “great” is a bit of hyperbole, but compared to what we were used to around here I don’t think so). I know it’s crazy to think this, but Harsin may actually self scout gasp. Unlike in the past, everyone in the stadium doesn’t know what we’re running based on formation and personnel. If you guess wrong on the run blitz, harsin will punish you for it. Especially with a home run threat like Gray. I like our other two backs a lot, but they’re not really threats to take it the distance from anywhere. Unfortunately with our offense this past year, if we went negative, we were helpless.

On a chalkboard Harsin has all the answers for the OU defense, the question is whether we can consistently field teams that can comprehend and execute his litany of constraints and punishments on a defense that plays that fast.

The 4 and 5 star guys that everyone drools over seeing in a Boise offense don’t always take to the mental side of the game like those lesser known 2 and 3 star guys do.

I expect it to work though, once we start cranking out QB’s and OL who have redshirted and studied for a few years before they hit the field.

Someone link Scipio’s old Stoops-Stoops conversation posts. Right now.

The Tampa 2 is predicated on each DL controlling their one gap in the front 7. Be it run or pass, their primary objective is containment and gap control. When you have a beast at DT like Tommie Harris, Kheeston Randall, Gerald McCoy, or even Ndamukong Suh, you get the added bonus of collapsing the pocket and stuffing the middle run game. This is how they contained Vince Young in 2003 and 2004. The pocket was maintained and that left VY alone against a blitzing LB or safety, but his options on where he could run were highly limited. Contrast that against the cluster fuck that was the D against Baylor.

On obvious pass plays, the MLB drops into shallow middle zone coverage. Well, what happens when you have 3 DL to cover 4 gaps between the tackles? Now, you’ve got a LB having to fill in that gap. Against an OL with a head start. This worked EXACTLY as well as you’d expect. This forces the LBs to crash on every play if the front 3 aren’t getting it done. Unless you’ve got a very badass NT, they won’t be getting it done. The safety has to fill the hole in the middle of the field that the MLBs leave. This is unless there’s a blitz called, and then your safety is coming downhill, too. Your CB’s are generally unaffected, aside from being on an island a little more. But your safeties now have to focus on filling the gap left by LBs having to creep up to the line. They’re so busy having to read the front 7 to determine their next move that they can’t attack the crossing routes and make people pay for getting into those seams in the zone. For a counter point to this, watch the decapitation of Kenny Shaw by two OU players in the FSU game. The front 4 controlled the gaps, the MLB was able to drop, and the safety could focus on just beating someone’s ass.

On a chalkboard Harsin has all the answers for the OU defense, the question is whether we can consistently field teams that can comprehend and execute his litany of constraints and punishments on a defense that plays that fast.

Aside from teaching fundamentals, this really is the crux of all football coaching. How do you explain/teach your stuff simply enough that guys get it at game speed, while not making it obvious to the other team what you are doing? From what I can tell this is one of the things that Diaz is really really good at.

I don’t have any idea how Harsin gets all the motion, formation and trick plays in. I’d love to see his play book. Certainly that was one of the impressive things about Holgorson. Smart football had an article about installing his entire offense in three days.

The General:

THANK YOU. I was also looking for the one where Mike Stoops came back and Brent Venables was sent to K-State with a bus ticket stapled to his jacket and an aioli sandwich.

Is there something in the water - or maybe a gravitational anomaly - in Youngstown that causes your brother to have to rely on you for a job? Whatever it is, it works for these, and the Flying Penile bros. as well.

http://barkingcarnival.fantake.com/2008/11/07/reunited-and-it-feels-so-good/

You da man!

Nate, that doesn’t make any sense.

Even in your 3-4 fronts everyone up front would have a single gap to control, just like in the 4-3. It’s not like you were asking your DL to 2-gap, it was just to pit your big DT’s on smallish centers and to get R. Lewis and Nelson in space on the perimeter.

I can see how the switches from 4-3 to 3-4 would affect gap assignmentsof the front seven but I don’t understand why that would affect the safeties.

If you noticed your linebackers crashing into the line and short zones being occupied by safeties I think you were just observing zone-blitzes, not a consequence of the 3-4 scheme.

I’m having trouble buying Jefferson to safety, even if Colvin is headed back to corner. It’s easier to find a hard-hitting safety for Cover-2 than a guy who can cover the slot, play close to the line, and blitz like Jefferson. That’s why they moved Roy Williams there. Someone that versatile is nice to have closer to the line of scrimmage.

And Roy Williams was?

Wait for it …

A safety.

For the 2001 Orange bowl and subsequent season Roy Williams played “roy-backer”, essentially the SAM linebacker in the OU scheme. Subsequent roy-backers have included Keenan Clayton and now Tony Jefferson.

Brandon Moore would like to have a word with you, Nickel.

So much goiter…so little sideline….

Auburn, Tennessee, West Virginia, and maybe Clemson are all interested in making Venables their defensive coordinator.
But he’s responsible for all the OU losses though isn’t he?
I’m not sure OU fan is the smartest in the league.