Achilles Heel? Rick Barnes' Tournament History

I’m pretty sure the team you have labeled as 2006-07 is really the 05-06 squad. 06-07 was Durant’s year. Other than that it was a really nice writeup

That’s a lot of quality basketball and a run that damn near any coach could be proud of.

I guess I don’t get the headline. The only one of those games that I anticipated Texas winning was the game against Xavier, and that was still a pretty good X team.

I rewatched the Texas-LSU game a couple of months ago, and as painful as I remember it being, it was actually a pretty even, hard-fought game. I guess it bothered me at the time because I knew Aldridge would back down against the big bodies of LSU, and he did. I’ve not watched him that much in the NBA, but I think he still pretty much avoids contact.

The ’08 team never had a chance against Memphis.

The headline is repeating conventional wisdom, and the article shows the conventional wisdom is dumb.

Yeah, the NYT capsule on Texas highlighted how RB is 0-5 in 8-9 games, as if that mattered. He’s also 7-0 in first-round games against double-digit seeds since 2001.

Texas has 12 tournaments under Barnes in the books here are the splits

Against teams seeded better than Texas Barnes is: 1-3 (.250)
Against teams seeded worse than Texas Barnes is: 16-9 (.640)
Texas has overstayed it’s seed: 1 time
Texas has under-stayed it’s seed: 5 times
Texas has played to it’s seed: 6 times (3 losses to lower seeds)

He’s 19-18 in the NCAA Tournament all time. He has advanced/coached past his seed one time in 18 years with that year being TJ Ford’s freshman season as a #6 seed in Dallas. He’s 0-5 in 8 vs. 9 games. He’s lost in the first round in nine of 18 trips to the tournament. He’s lost to double digit seeds three times in the first round.

The positive is he’s made the NCAA Tournament 16 years in a row (19-15). That is the most impressive thing on the resume and a great feather to have. He has a Final Four, which is now eight years ago. He has two additional Elite Eight’s with the loss to LSU being the one teveryone would love to have back. Several Sweet 16’s.

I am still scarred from both NY-area drubbings by Duke. I’m not sure I’ve ever sat through as solid a beating as the game in MSG in 2003 (?), only to be almost equally humiliated in the Meadowlands in, maybe, 2005. I hate to overgeneralize, but I’m not happy about our chances against Coach K with a week’s preparation.

I was in Atlanta for the Xavier game. All I really remember is Klotz having a brutal game. Maybe Buckman, too. But those were the days when we were still endlessly grateful to Barnes for elevating the program. As we still should be, of course. But that kind of loss wouldn’t go down as easily these days.

Nice work, Nickel. Appreciate the main message of the post — on closer inspection we’ve simply more often ran into better teams than anything else.

Thanks for detailing all of that.
 
Doesn’t really jibe with the headline, but maybe you’re being ironical.

Being a friend of Nickel’s that talks with him regularly enough, I’m pretty certain it’s meant to be ironical. He and I were discussing the other day that the national narrative on Barnes is misguided b/c it’s based mostly from last year and Durant’s year.

Thanks, NR… not only for the walk down memory lane but for explaining why I just can’t get worked up about a football playoff system to replace the bowl season wrap-up.

Nice walk down memory lane; it’s been real nice as a UT fan to see such different groupings of personnel each year, each with their own identity.

The only thing I would dispute is LMA not being dominant; like all big men he’s taken awhile to develop, but he is absolutely rolling right now in Portland. One thing to keep in mind is that his stats are depressed because the Blazers play the slowest pace in the NBA. At this point, the only PF I’d take over him is Dirk, and not by much considering how much better a defensive player Aldridge is.

LMA vs. Blake Griffin is going to be an amazing rivalry in the West over the decade.

I agree with the fact that sometimes you just play a better guy… Mello is a freak. If he’s not on that ‘Cuse team we destroy them. No question. The bobbsey twins (big baby and tt) were a really good college pair that complimented each other well. I thought we’d compete better in that game. Even so, if either one of those guys doesn’t play the way they did, and again we win. The Memphis game was a disaster. We’re lucky that their front cort didn’t play up to it’s potenital or they’d’ve really embarrased us.

However, I don’t agree with the last bit about schemes not being a factor. Schemes are always as factor. ours usually suck and others are usually sound. Barnes got the hint last year after that teams colossal collapse and the heat it generated on his derriere. In an effort to quell the fire, he went out and found an offensive system, allbeit one we’ve largely abandoned down the stretch of this season. Even so, I give him some credit for that move.

This is the time of year we see the ‘system’ pay off. Are we going to be a Duke, were the system helps mask some of our deficiencies, or are we going to be same old Texas - good for a football school, but not good enough. I hope we meet up with Duke in the sweet 16 and that we can exercize some of the demons of recent past.

I picked Texas. I’ll be damned if they win it all and I didn’t pick them. ;-p

3 from the Corner: I agree that Barnes’ switch to the new offense was the right move but he’s been near the front of the pack on defense for some time so it wasn’t like he was just rolling the ball out there.
I totally agree on picking Texas to win it all any time they have a remote chance, i never have money invested in brackets so there is little to motivate me against taking a chance.

OldTimeHorn: I worry when people talk about a 16 team or more football playoff system but 8 or less and I would be ecstatic. Also, didn’t get the UT Dallas, the search goes on…

Scipio: I’m talking about common themes to Texas defeats examining the notion that there is something about Barnes’ Texas that would always keep us from winning it all.

NR, in regard to your comment about what Barnes may do that keeps him from a championship, I think it’s overthinking and overcoaching offensive options. I understand that some people have more freedom to shoot and others have to rebound. However, had Chapman not redshirted, fully half of a 10-man squad would be disinclined to shoot the ball, even when open.

If you have that, there’s something wrong with the coaching. Players must be put in position to be successful. I dare say he could not have recruited those guys if he had said to them, “I envision you as an important part of our team. I will expect you to screen for others and rebound. If you even think about shooting, I will nail you to the bench so hard that people will think you are a statue.”

I’m not suggesting that Dogus Balbay should have channeled his inner Craig Winder, but I can’t imagine how the offensive options became so limited.

I think the staff envisioned Matt Hill developing more along the lines of Jason Klotz as a legitimate scoring threat. Never really happened.
 
Dogus is Dogus.
 
Jai Lucas should be a much better 3 point shooter, but he just isn’t in game situations.
 
But yeah, I agree w you. Having four guys on the court who can score at all times would help our offense a lot.

But yeah, I agree w you. Having four guys on the court who can score at all times would help our offense a lot.

That’s my one worry for tomorrow. Oakland has at least 6 or 7 guys who are thinking offense, and can score.

And they do not have to have permission to shoot.

It’s important for Texas to get the lead and keep it. If they get down and have to gamble on defense, they’ll be falling back three points at a time.

“The only one of those games that I anticipated Texas winning was the game against Xavier”

That comment froze me for a little while as I was flooded with good memories of the 1990 team. Saw those games in person. I can still see the Lance Blanks extended finger roll in slow motion. Good times. I know that was not your point but I couldnt stop it once it started. And maybe the good mojo will run off.

Hook ’em.

nice writeup. couple of comments:

the game against Xavier was an absolute heartbreaker. I’ve mentioned on this site before that that was my favorite Horns team since I’ve been on board the bandwagon (95). Barnes got tossed at the end of that game, which sucked. that game certainly helped get Matta the tOSU gig. also, believe that was the game to go the elite 8.

the game against LSU sucked, particularly following the WVU-Paulino thriller. all I really remember was Tyrus Thomas getting about 3 alley oops in the second half and having a look on his face that suggested he wasn’t really sure what was going on.

in hindsight, rather laughable that certain NBA scouts thougt Thomas might actually “grow into a 3” in the league. despite the frequent injuries, his play has been sporadic at best — producing ridiculous per minute stats while pissing off coaches and fantasy owners on the regular.

contrast this with LeMarcus, who I believe went one pick later. for me, I always thought he’d never be a traditional PF. but, I thought he’d enjoy moderate success because he ran the floor so well. while he certainly has not become the consumate back-to-the-basket player, the baby hook has developed to a certain weapon. his J out to 16-18 feet is money and he’s got serious stroke from the FT line. defensively, he’s been much improved this year. blocking more shots, grabbing more than a steal per game and fighting for rebounds. while I’m not sure he deserved to be an all star, he certainly had a valid argument.

the only other game I’d like to see on the list is the USC game of the Durant year. I think that might be the “high point” of not living up to expectations. we had the best player in our school’s history, surrounded by two other great freshman talents. not only that, but Durant really was the consumate “Barnes offense guy.” give him the ball and let him do his thing.

while the loss was very dissapointing at the time, I remember thinking that USC seemed like a very talented team. Taj Gibson was a monster that day. evidently he’s a bit of an underachiever. he has been very effective at times with the Bulls. additionally, DeRozan has finally started to blossom in Toronto. and if memory serves, Nick Young was on the team as well. mayo too? can’t remember. at any rate, Floyd had some talent and he at least had them coached up that day. loss is easier to deal with now, at least for me.

I think the commenter above does have a point about our lack of “overachieving” in the tourney. I don’t think we’ve been bad — far from it. but, it would certainly be nice to go further in the tourney than expected every once in awhile. TJ’s freshman year was amazing to watch.

on that note, I don’t relish playing Duke again. seems like K has had Barnes’ number since the latter took the reigns at UT. I think Barnes’s success against K while at Clemson can pretty much be forgotten at this point.

Duke will get in our grill and guard, while having great guard play and quality posts on the other end. afraid it might be too much for us. certainly would be nice to overachieve.

the only other game I’d like to see on the list is the USC game of the Durant year. I think that might be the "high point" of not living up to expectations. we had the best player in our school’s history, surrounded by two other great freshman talents. not only that, but Durant really was the consumate "Barnes offense guy." give him the ball and let him do his thing.

Not here, too.

Youngest team ever to get a seed that high. Six freshmen and a sophomore in the rotation. Mason was hurt at the end of the year and his minutes went mostly to Craig Winder and J.D. Lewis. Tim Floyd is a great defensive coach; he had an excellent, more experienced college team that could separate Augustin from Durant.

Bob:

not sure I’m following your points. if memory serves, our team was good enough to beat an ATM team at home that made the sweet 16 and came close to beating a KU team in the big 12 championship game that made the elite 8.

was the team young? yes. so was the cuse team that beat us and won the NC. KD is one of the top 3 players in the world right now. DJ went in the lottery a year later.

Mason. admittedly, his FR year might have been his best. I know he shot particularly well from behind the arc that year and never matched it again.

classifying that USC team as “excellent?” really? I think I remember them making one elite 8. and I think that was under Bibby. as I mention above, they did have some great players on that team that had underperformed over the course of the season. research indicates this team was so “excellent” that they didn’t make the tourney in 2006 and exited the tourney in the first round in 2008.

and so what if Tim Floyd is a great defensive coach? what does that mean? that Barnes got outcoached? isn’t that what we’re talking about?

bottom line for me, we were a 4 seed and got beat by a 5 seed by almost 20 points.

as I mention above, I’ve come to terms with the loss. it feels better now that I see Nick Young and Gibson play well in the league.

we had a great season, but it was a second round game. the excuses offered are fine for the game. but they’re just excuses. maybe it was the best game that USC played all year long — but we got our butt kicked in that game.

do you really recall thinking that we had no chance in that game before it was played? I sure don’t. and that’s how the game went down. they pounded us from the opening tip.

it’s emblamatic of Barnes’ record in the tournament. we’ve often played to the level of our seed or slightly below. zero record of overachieving.

don’t get me wrong — I think he’s a great coach and he’s taken our program to new heights. I think he can improve on what he’s done and eventually win a title.

if you want to give him a pass on the SC game, that’s fine. I’m not saying he should’ve been fired over it. I’m not saying that he doesn’t deserve a pass for some of the early exits. and I’m willing to give him a pass on certain NCAA games: the Perdue & Nevada games immediately come to mind — he just didn’t have much to work with those 2 years.

the record in the tourney speaks for itself. and for me, the biggest groaner of them all is the USC game. although that loss to Temple also sucked.

In the Temple game, we were fucked in the seedings. It was before we got any respect.

Txsa — Neither Mayo nor DeRozan were on that team. They were both one-and-dones. But USC was still a really good squad that year — Taj Gibson and Nick Young are going to be 10 year NBA guys and Gabe Pruitt got a cup of coffee in the league too.

BobinHouston: “. . . in regard to your comment about what Barnes may do that keeps him from a championship, I think it’s overthinking and overcoaching offensive options.”

What Bob said, and why I’m not even remotely optimistic that we can beat Duke. Barnes stifles offensive creativity.