Texas, OU Board of Regents to Square Off Monday

1. I think the Pac whatever takes OU without Texas if OU wants in.

2. Not trying to be a dick. What is UT’s move? If anyone mentions “Notre Dame” in the comments, you’re best served over at bleacherreport.com

What a Bloody mess this all is. Think I’ll go watch some LHN and try to forget about it….. Seriously.

And, as I’ve mentioned, I wanted the Big 12 to survive.

Agreed that the PAC takes OU with or without UT. And absolutely no idea what our move is. I am thinking of attending church for the first time in years to put in a good word with the almighty to ensure that this ACC nonsense is indeed nonsense.

ColoradoAg - depends on whether UT’s brass are willing to negotiate on the terms of the LHN, right? If not - and all indications are they won’t - then in the short run both the Pac X and B1G are a stretch. Personally I think the best route otherwise is independence in football and joining the ACC for basketball, baseball, etc. That would actually be pretty cool, for a fourth- or fifth-best option.

One thing to remember: UT promised as part of its contract to ESPN that in the event of conference realignment or dissolution, ESPN retains its LHN rights. So renegotiating the LHN w.r.t. the Pacs and Bigs of the world isn’t even UT’s call anymore - it’s ESPN’s.

ESPN might be willing to restructure its LHN deal to get in on a larger conference network deal. Or maybe not. In any case it’s out of our hands.

Second comment is actually a correction to the first…sorry, should have made that clearer.

Good notes as usual, Dagga.

I don’t think the ACC takes your non-revenue sports if football is independent. I could be wrong.

Another not-trying-to-be-a-dick comment:

Is the LHN worth it? Y’all already have more money than God. This thing seems to be more harm than good. And yes, I know, $300 mil blah blah. You already had all the market share you could handle.

I guess someone has to pay for Plonsky’s bikini waxes.

I’m still not sure Pac takes OU / OSU without Texas. I realize I am creeping further out on this sapling… Also, not trying to be a dick or cocky UT guy.

I think the network is totally worth it. I’m willing to suffer the slings and arrows for a while to let it gestate. We can always TURN IT OFF but doing so, in the short term, seems misguided.

ColoAg - At this point it’s damn hard to think the LHN was worth it. Sad too, because the LHN would be kinda cool.

That said, I’d never chastize anyone for saying “yes” when someone’s writing them a $300 mil check in a perfectly legal transaction. But in light of UT’s already-huge coffers there’s some serious diminishing returns on that extra money. It’s not like having the biggest bankroll in the conference guarantees championships. Pretty sure we’ve proved that.

But by that same measure, y’all shouldn’t give a shit either. The high school games thing was irritating, and rightfully so, but per the NCAA that’s a non-issue now. There’s no recruiting advantage to moving games down from a regional broadcast to a sub-regional broadcast. The only real advantage UT’s going to get from this is (a) fans will get to see stuff they like, and (b) UT athletics gets a bunch of cash they don’t need. So what gives? Why is everyone else so bitter about it?

We don’t seem to be incontrol of our conference alignment options. Our ability to have 10+ wins almost every season is at risk in all this chaos. I like it not.

@ Dagga - Where in the contract does it say that?

Larry Scott said that he’s happy at 12, since the purpose of expansion was to garner for the Pac-X a better TV contract, which they succeeded in doing.

I don’t see the Pac-12 adding OU & OSU unless they want to force UT’s hand re: the LHN. I don’t think that’s a gamble the Pac-12 wants to make. They risk UT going to another conference. And would adding just OU & OSU really cause their TV partners to up their contracts that much? I don’t think so.

The question is, is OU going to go all aggy & pull the trigger just to spite UT (i.e., force UT to give up the LHN)?

I’ve said it before, but does it matter what conference the non-football sports are in? It seems to me that The main key in those sports is to make the NCAA Tourney. We could join the C-USA, or something, for non-football. At least, we’d get some of our old SWC rivalries back.

The main sticking point with that plan (football independence), however, is not scheduling… It’s bowl tie-in’s. Specifically, BCS tie-in’s.

Why is everyone else so bitter about it?

As w/ politics, the mainstream media does a piss-poor job of informing people. The LHN has been allowed to turn into a sports version of “death panels.” The anti-LHN folks have controlled the narrative, promoting lies & leaving out the whole truth.

The problem is, you can’t unring the bell.

I’m surprised w/ ESPN as a business partner, the truth hasn’t been aired.

joetx - Sec. 2, Subsec. B:

Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Section 2, in the event that UT determines during the term, to become a member of an athletics conference other than the Big 12 Conference or not to participate in any athletics conference, UT agrees to continue to grant and provide (or to cause IMG to continue to grant and provide) to ESPN the Television Rights set forth in this agreement.

ColoAg - I’m sure the ACC would entertain the idea, if only to get their foot in the door on eventually enticing UT to join fully. But just because I wouldn’t join the ACC for football doesn’t mean DeLoss agrees with me.

At what point does the uncertainty regarding Texas’ conference affiliation begin to affect our recruiting in football (and basketball, for that matter)?

While I’m confident that we’ll land on our feet in terms, where our team will be travelling for road games in the future will be a factor in some football recruits’ decision making. In the ACC scenario, we’d travel further than with the Big 12 ‘bandaid’, PAC X (assuming we go along with OU, TT and OSU), or Indy scenarios. The Indy scenario has additional hair (i.e., Will we be granted ND-like BCS affiliation? Can we get sufficient strength of schedule?, Who would we play?, etc.).

Overall, a lack of stability and uncertainty may tip the scale towards another school, if it ’s close, for some recruits. If OU BOR decides to stick with Big 12 band-aid, the uncertainty will be used against us by SEC schools until the end-game becomes clear.

I’m hoping that OU declares for the PAC X next week. Sooner just needs to play Dr. Kervokian for the Big 12.

Hoju - Notre Dame has an automatic BCS bid, if they’re ranked highly enough; so could Texas.

Best option:
Hop in a time machine and go back one year so we can work all this B.S out (see Deer Hunter pic above) to save the second best football conference in the country -enroute to #1.
Second best option:
I know I’m in the minority but I would go B1G and not look back.
8 (yes 8) conference games against the likes of Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, Nebraska, Penn State and a bunch of patsies, to go with our non-con/traditionals sounds good to me.
Besides, academically the CIC (Committee of Institutional Cooperation) is worth its weight in gold. Even the PAC has nothing that compares. Granted, to make my dream scenario come true we would be joined by the Okies. But hey.
Third Best Option:
PAC. I’ve really soured on them since reading a few of the UCLA and STANFORD message boards concerning expansion. Arrogance personified. Besides, let’s face it, were going to be in the dessert/dust bowl division. It makes me realize how great we had it with the full Big 12.
Besides that time zone nonsense would blow.
Fourth Best Option
ACC. What are we Louis and Clark? We’ll be like the Donner party fighting over Bevo scraps half way there. To me this is just a laughable option. Makes me think ESPN is now our master.
As for independence, that sounds great in theory, but unsustainable in a Super-Conference world.

@ Dagga - Thanks for the citation & quote. I did a quick look over of the contract, but didn’t see it. I had no desire to read 51 pgs either.

Notre Dame has an automatic BCS bid, if they’re ranked highly enough; so could Texas.

The operative word there is “could.”

There is no insurance that Texas would receive a special exception like ND. In fact, if the other conferences want to force UT to pick a conference, they can vote against giving UT a ND-like special exception.

A wise teacher once told me, “When you decide to walk on the mountain there will be those down in the valley who will call to you and say, ‘Get down from up there. You make me look bad.’ They do this because they lack the courage to walk on the mountain.” So we decided to walk on a brave new path — and created the LHN. It isn’t the money. We already had money. It is a whole new thing we created. Why? Because we could! And later generations at UT will benefit from the LHN in creative writing, producing, exposure to athletes and other ways not even seen yet.

What genius ever did a good thing for the world that they didn’t hear the catcalls in the beginning? There was a time people were burned at the stake for saying the earth was not flat.

We will survive and we will go on to do things others cannot because we are who we are.

Abe - I’m hoping OU declares too (even if they’re being idiotic) but I have serious doubts the Pac X will be sending an invite.

It has nothing to do with whether Larry Scott likes OU as a potential member. I’m sure he does. But they’ve still got three issues:

1) OU and OSU don’t fit the academic profile, and some schools (Cal, Stanford) have been on the record against bringing in schools with sub-standard academics;

2) In a 14-team league, one team would have to leave the old Pac 8 and go west. Which one would that be?

3) In case people have already forgot, the SEC still hasn’t accepted A&M. Oh sure they’ve invited them, but it’s still conditional, and multiple schools are still refusing to sign the legal waiver the SEC wants before making the invitation final. Does the Pac 12 want to invite OU the exact same way, on condition of getting those waivers? Yeah, good luck with that. If they want OU now they’ll have to open themselves up to lawsuits. Considering that OU/OSU would only be a marginally positive addition without the lawsuits, I’d be skeptical that Scott and company would make that choice.

Joetx - I don’t think it’d matter much in any case - if UT’s a top 8 team, BCS bowls will be drooling over themselves to invite them, same as ND - but I also don’t think conferences would be able to blackball UT that easily. Yes conferences are members of the NCAA, but so are individual schools, and they collectively elect a board, who then appoints committees, one of which would make that decision. So it’s not like the SEC could just say “We vote no” and it’s over.

Other indy schools - BYU, Navy, Army - qualify for BCS consideration if they’re ranked 14 or higher, and get in automatically if they’re 2 or higher. So either UT will get ND’s deal, or BYU’s deal, or somewhere in between. None of those are deal-breakers in my eyes.

On my way to a HS game so this will be quick — I believe ESPN would be okay with us in the ACC — they control the TV rights to the league & it would be a big boost to theLHN content including making it easier to get 2 live football games on the channel.

It would also have a chance to increase the bottom line on subscriptions.

Good read, Dagga. If your intuition is right, then OU doesn’t have a clear runway.

I don’t believe the SEC members would vote to accept OU — Aggie is not a perenniel threat on the field, yet increases exposure to the Texas market; OU would be another gorilla yet adds little in the way of market — and I don’t think OU would want any part of the guantlet that SEC conference play is.

Begs the question: Is Boren playing a big-stakes poker game and, if so, what is OU’s bluff intended to do? Leverage for what? Renegotiating Big 12 revenue sharing? Increasing the odds that ACC might prematurely/pre-emptively pursue adding the package of OU, OSU, and TT to go along with Texas to form the ACC West division?

srr50 - also, it’s a bunch of teams who could give a shit if UT has a recruiting advantage in Texas. While there are all sorts of reasons to think that other conferences are preferable destinations, the ACC’s by far the easiest route to close the deal.

While I wouldn’t like it for football, wouldn’t the basketball be awesome?

Dagga. You get it. I don’t agree with everything, but realignment talk typically brings out the retards.

As for this:

“The LHN has been allowed to turn into a sports version of "death panels." The anti-LHN folks have controlled the narrative, promoting lies & leaving out the whole truth.”

Isn’t this a bit dramatic? It’s owned by the biggest sports media company on earth. Take it up with them.

I’m as capitalist as they come. You have a brand that is extremely lucrative. Conferences are partnerships. Most people think you’re a bad partner.

This is your great ACC Championship:

http://fsutomahawkchop.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/acc-attendance1.jpg

And spare me before you think UT would travel well to Charlotte and Jacksonville.

I agree with Dagga’s analysis regarding OU/OSU and the PAC. They don’t bring that many TV sets and that much revenue to the PAC, nor are they where the PAC would like academically. But if the PAC’s endgame is to also get Texas and one other school (probably Tech), then snagging OU/OSU does make sense.

The sticking point continues to be the LHN. The problem is that, whatever conference it joins, UT brings more than its fair share of TV sets and dollars to the table. Okay, fine, go the equal revenue sharing route, UT gives away some dollars to lesser schools, but there’s still the LHN, pulling down 300 million plus over its contract.

I swear we will be independent when the dust settles, which is just about my last choice.

ColoradoAg. I agree with your comment that most of the other schools think we’re a bad partner. The aggies certainly do. This would mystify me, in light of the fact that aTm always supported the kind of unequal revenue sharing that benefited them in the Big 12. Except that I have a low opinion of aggies in general, so the utter hypocrisy of their stance in this whole matter is unsurprising to me.

Ok. A&M played by the $ rules of the conference. I don’t think it nullifies this issue of Texas doing everything in their power to be an independent in a conference.

You guys could play the Washington Generals every game?

Maybe Texas says we’ll sue the daylights out of OU if they leave without Texas so that both schools are a package deal, creating SOME leverage to allow the LHN to remain a Texas asset.

Sorry if not clear, typing onthephone sucks

Give me a break, ColoradoAg. How convenient that your flippant response leaves out the important details that A&M wanted those rules, voted for those rules, and benefited from those rules.

Yeah, the Aggies are perfectly innocent good partners. The kind that vote for inequality, benefit from inequality, pledge their membership in a conference and then continue to talk with another conference about moving there while their current conference members are making major investment plans based on the current conference membership.

Get real.

As of next year (maybe 2013) there will be thirteen Div I FBS teams in Texas. Some are appealing, some are not. I’m just sayin’… it might be GWOT time.

Abe - I don’t think it’s a bluff, exactly. They want to go to the Pac 12, for lots of reasons. But why they’re doing it at this time, and in this way, is still a bit of a mystery. I imagine they’re trying to do two things: (a) make the breakup of the Big 12 seem inevitable, putting the smaller schools under more pressure to stop holding out and start making alternate plans; and (b) put pressure on Texas to accept equal status (meaning, equal TV revenues and drop the LHN) if UT and OU will be in the same conference.

I think the latter logic goes as follows: if UT goes to the Pac 12 now, it’ll have to convince ESPN to fold LHN into the Pac 12 network somehow. If UT waits and applies later, then OU and OSU have Pac 14 votes and can make sure those conditions still apply in the future. If UT goes to a different conference, OU keeps the RRS, recruits more in CA and hopes the new conference situation for UT hurts Texas’ recruiting more than the LHN helps it, allowing OU to maintain recruiting appeal in Texas without playing more games there.

Problem for OU is, I think the third scenario’s the most likely at this point if the Pac 12 invites OU this year…and I don’t think it’ll pan out as OU would hope. Top Cali kids won’t pick OU over USC and Oregon to the extent that Texas kids would over UT and A&M; the West Coast & rural Oklahoma cultures are just too alien to one another. And I think losing the TTU, Baylor, and A&M games will hurt OU’s visibility in Texas pretty badly, as will not being a factor in any Texas school’s conference championship race.

I just got back from my Friday night Mexican food-and-Dos Equis bash, so I’m a little loose-lipped right now…but I got two things to add anyway.

1. It’s “Lewis and Clark,” not “Louis.” Jesus H. Christ.

2. Just in case DeLoss Dodds is having a lackey keep an eye on this thread: I swear to god, if UT joins the ACC I am canceling my fucking season tickets. I hope to christ this is some sort of PR ploy to get OU to shit their mess kit.

That is all.

ColoradoAg - how big of a boner will you get when you flip on your Sony Trinitron and see a mere 57,000 onhand at FedEx Field as Texas takes on the Seminoles for ACC Championship 2013, knowing that later on, you will have the glorious honor of watching Alabama take on Florida in a packed Georgia Dome for the ESS EEE SEE title? It will be a big one I’m sure….nothing like watching competing conference attendance figures to get the ol’ competitive juices flowing.

Conferences are partnerships. Most people think you’re a bad partner.

Considering their alternatives, I’d wager most members of the Big-12 prefer the status quo to the non-BCS conference hell where they’ll soon reside thanks to a certain school’s decision to cut and run. What part of being of a good partner is leaving half of your former partners to die the instant you get a better offer?

As an alum and orange bleeder, if OU nad OSU leave I honestly think the best option for UT is a neo-SWC consisting of
UT
Tech
Baylor
KU
KSU
MU
Houston
TCU
SMU
ISU (don’t have the heart to kick them to the curb)

Who gives a flip if it’s a worse conference than the Big East? I don’t. I just want to keep it in the family, keep Texas in Texas (state of) and not pretend like football is more important than life.

The Aggies are leaving because they are tired of being in Texas’ shadow. All the other things they say is smoke and mirrors.

What has changed since Texas A&M (those of the never lie or cheat ilk) agreed to stay in the Big XII? LHN was known about and Ags were offered a part of it. Unequal revenue sharing was already in effect and A&M was one of the main beneficiaries.

The only thing that has changed is that Texas received a much larger boatload of money than was expected from the LHN.

Even the showing of HS football was blown out of proportion and blocked.

And everyone needs to stop expecting these things to be rational. They are emotional when the decision is made and then a pseudo-rational explanation or two or put in its place to justify the emotional decision. People do not like Texas because we are the richest school in the country and so yes, we will be blamed for everything, including the death of the Big XII which DD has been trying to hold together.

If a tree falls in the forest and the PAC 12 doesn’t want it, does it matter?

3.7 million okies is not anywhere close to 25 million texans, including 3 of the top 10 cities in the nation for population. No way thet take ou just on football history alone.

Texas going to the ACC wouldn’t be the end of the world for football. There’s a good case to be made that the top 4 or so of the new ACC would be at least as good as our current Big 12.

Texas, FSU, VTech, and Miami (I hear they know how to party) would be some pretty high profile games. GTech and UNC have had their moments too. Compare GTech and UNC’s success over the past decade or two with Aggie.

Compare that with Texas, OU, Aggie, and either OSU or Missouri.

Look beyond where these teams are right now and instead how good they will likely be over the years. Miami might be in for some stuff, but the NCAA could decide that the Boise St. probation was punishment enough.

Of course basketball would be awesome. Could we bring along KU?

Dagga, not sure I understand the ND and Texas being independent special considerations. Does this mean they qualify for a BCS bowl only or does it also include the National Championship game as well? Thanks and I’ll hang up and listen.

hombre,

The top two teams in the final BCS standings make the title game, no matter what conference they are in. Notre Dame’s special deal is to automatically get an at-large BCS bid (the way BCS conference champions automatically get a BCS bid ) if they are in the top whatever in the standings.

Thanks bigdukesix. Much appreciated.

I am posting semi-buzzed to say this:

No one was ever burned at the stake for saying the earth was flat. Any educated person has known the earth was round for at least two millenia or so.

If anyone is interested in the perpetuation of the myth, may I direct your attention to Inventing the Flat Earth.

Also, it is interesting that everyone always creates scenarios in which their own team does well. I am not sure what conclusion to draw from this, but I will laugh heartily at school X when it turns our their “greatest deal evar” with some conference turns out to be a contract with Mephistopheles. (For the record, I hope that is A&M.)

Cheers!

ColoAg and Huck - clearing the air here…I think the best way to look at the Big 12 was as a partnership not between 12 schools, but between OU, UT, and A&M. It was those three schools who wrested control of the old Big 8 away from Nebraska and set all the new rules. It was those three schools to whom, when it came time to collect CU and NU’s departure fees, the rest of the conference offered to fork their shares over entirely. Texas may have been the ringleader, but the degree to which UT had power in the conference has always been entirely dependent on OU and A&M’s full cooperation. I believe current events support that interpretation.

The conference was never designed to last anyway. As soon as Arky left the SWC, UT was courting the Pac 10 and A&M wanted to go to the SEC. Meanwhile OU and CU were chafing under NU’s dominance in the Big 8. But complications arose and the Big 12 became everyone’s second-best solution, except Nebraska who was just stuck with it.

Still, the conference could have lasted indefinitely as long as the partnership amongst the troika stayed stable. That didn’t happen; UT and to a lesser extent OU got richer and richer over time, while A&M struggled to balance its books.

Does that have anything to do with the LHN? No. To the Aggies, it sure seems like the LHN is rubbing salt in the wound. But the wound itself - the increasing divergence of fortune - isn’t due to any heavy-handed breach of friendship; it’s just two things:

1) UT and OU have basic fundraising advantages over A&M; and
2) UT hired Mack Brown, OU hired Bob Stoops, and A&M let R.C. stay on too long and then hired Dennis Franchione.

So on the one hand, by accepting the LHN deal one could easily make the case that UT overstepped its implicit power-sharing agreement with OU and A&M. Before the LHN deal, those three schools ALWAYS shared the spoils, and here was UT thinking it could go off and do something on their own. “He’s getting a big head…time to teach ’em a lesson about family.” Classic mafioso shit.

But on the other hand, the LHN is just a very slick package of third-tier rights. There are certain sources of revenue that have always been considered the province of individual schools and not conferences: ticket sales, concessions, donations, branding rights, third-tier rights. Only two conferences have rules collectivizing the use of third-tier rights and the Big 12 ain’t one.

With capable administration and a donations facilitator like Mack Brown, UT was destined to grow larger and faster than the rest of the troika. We have the largest and one of the richest alumni bases of any public school in the nation. The LHN may have been the straw that broke the camel’s back, but if it wasn’t the LHN it would have been something else. The three-legged stool had become imbalanced and destined to tip over eventually.

Good questions. I think Dagga has it as usual. I’m not sure I could predict anything at this point. I still don’t believe independence is good for Texas in any sport. That said, if OU wants to jump to the Pac 12 and leave the Texas schools behind, I would be willing to call that bluff. I just don’t think the land thieves can pull the Cali kids and keep up with the travel schedule in all sports and maintain an elite athletic department.

If we need to bluster and politic about the ACC and independence then so be it. If that calls the Sooners bluff and reinforces the painfully obvious fact that we have more options than anyone then let’s play the game.

Longtime lurker, love the site and the diverse perspectives. Left BON and haven’t looked back.

cragbiggio - you haven’t left BON, exactly (FanTake sites are now part of SBNation). But the atmosphere is different, yeah. I think the fact that the comment interface is super-simple invites people to put more thought into comments rather than just shooting off one-liners and attaching GIFs like you see on most SB sites. That, and the main writers do a great job setting a thoughtful-but-casual tone for the place.

And I don’t think OU’s bluffing exactly, but they don’t have a full house either. We’re all waiting for the river.

ehhombre - ND’s special case is for a BCS bowl invite. Top 8 and they’re in, just as if they won a AQ conference championship. In that case the number of at-large spots would shrink from three to two.

The national champion is always 1 vs 2 in the BCS, regardless of conference; that’s the only automatic invite non-ND independents get. But they can be considered for an at-large spot if they’re in the Top 14. For BYU that’s a raw deal, but for Texas I think that would be fine. As long as our schedule isn’t pure unadulterated trash then if we qualify we’d get as much consideration as any at-large candidate.

Great perspective on the ultimate breakup of the Big 3, Dagga. I love reading your takes and I’m in total agreement. OU, at this point, is calling the (kill?) shot. If they’re smart — a BIG “if” considering Okie — the Sooners will stay the course until Super Conferences emerge and the Big 12 staggers toward its inevitable demise.

I, for one, would love for Texas to say, “Screw you Aggie; Screw you Okie” and either go independent or play with the Big 12 leftovers until Super Conferences form and/or the LHN shakes out.

ESPN is damn sure going to protect its investment, regardless.

conferences aren’t parterships — at least not in the legal sense. more like an agreed affiliation.

I think the acc may be a “relatively” temporary measure. and frankly, I’m not that opposed to it. I like the idea of roadtrips to MD, VA and NC. bball and baseball will be nice. and while the overall strength of the conference won’t exactly be formidable, it will provide the same “relatively easy” path to the bcs championship game that the big 12 has enjoyed in recent years…albeit primarily by the sooners.

I have read twice in articles written by ESPN that PAC 12 won’t do the deal with ou and OSU unless Texas is part of the deal. We have partnered with ESPN and they can sweeten the deal for pac12 to allow LHN and every body is happy. Don’t you think that ou and Texas have been meeting a lot with each other for two teams splitting sheets? I think they are going together. Switzer made it pretty clear why ou needs Texas and I think admin at ou agrees. PAC 12 knows tv markets are in Texas and if they play too hard they could lose Texas to ACC and then they lose out on the real prize and are left with limited options for 15th and 16h team. Timing of ou was to hold aggies until they know their options with PAC is viable.The timing of their announcement caused Baylor to scream and block aggies. This gave ou (and texas) time to work out details with PAC. This also takes Texas out of the bulls eye and let’s ou look like they control their own destiny instead of the sheep following Texas label they had acquired.

Agree totally that the comments here are more thoughtful and the individual wisdom is vastly superior to other sites!

My two-cents involves three thoughts:
1. I get a sense that there are going to be four 16-team superconferences.
2. I feel that if Texas and OU could get on the same page, the B12 would be in a great positon to be one of those superconferences. If they could, it would be the Pac, B1G, SEC and B12. The rest of the conferences would be in a sizeable second-tier group. If we can’t go forward together then a Eastern superconference would likely emerge.
3. With 16-team superconferences, I can’t see much of an opportunity for any major school to make it as an Independent. The schedule just wouldn’t be attractive enough.

Hope the Rose Bowl continues to be kind to us…… Hook-em!

BevocalHorns- Can’t remember if its here or elsewhere but I remember insightful comments that if superconfernce armageddon went down, the Pac 12 is in the worst position of the all “superconferences” geographically. Their only big fish are us and OU. Contrast that with the Big 10 and SEC who can pull teams from the Big 12, ACC, and Big East.

The Pac 12 already invited everyone they can who could make an impact except for us and OU. That and many other reasons are why I believe this move by OU is to force our hand into the PAC 12. We’re still the “big get” out there everyone knows we won’t consider the SEC so the ACC rumor is floated.

I believe the rules of non-AQ teams was revised so that any non-AQ team gets an auto BCS bid if they are in the Top 4 and there isn’t already a non-AQ team ahead of them. That was the rule that guaranteed TCU a BCS slot last year. Under the old criteria they could have been skipped over if the bowl wanted to choose another, lower ranked but eligible, team.

Obviously, from Texas’s point of view, I imagine even just having the ability to be invited to a BCS bowl if they are in the Top 14 is a de facto auto-bid, since a bowl with a true at-large choice would pick a decent Texas team over almost any school other than ND, but having a guaranteed spot would be better.

The more I think about it the more I like the ACC. At least we would have something to spend all that extra money on, travel budget.

It would be a semi-competitive football league against large state schools. Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and Maryland aren’t bad places. Plus I like the East Coast exposure. It worked for the Dallas Cowboys.

I would be interested to know what sort of relationship Swofford and Brown have. Swofford hired Mack out of Tulane, and by all accounts he was an excellent AD and well-liked by the coaches. As a former AD for UNC, he can talk Dodds’ language when it comes to protecting a national brand. And he remains desperate/determined to make ACC football relevant. Of all the suitors out there, the ACC wants us most, needs us most, and arguably has the necessary personal relationships to make such a conversation move at warp speed.

I’m not saying I want the ACC. I’m just pointing out the logistics in place to move things along at a brisk pace. I’m not so sure the ACC talk is about posturing or Plan C. Brown knows the ACC landscape, including how fertile a recruiting ground the area can be for football powers in the B1G and SEC. If he thinks Texas can thrive in that conference and turn it into a two-bid BCS league consistently… watch out.

What’s with people and concerns about travel. We are fucking Texas. Travel is a small part of the athletic department’s expenses no matter what conference we play in. First off, in all sports we play most of our games at home. In sports like baseball we already play all but a handful at home. So instead of going to College Station, Waco, and Lubbock we head to one of the coasts. In another conference we probably travel less in OOC since we will have several old rivals to play in-state.

It’s not the travel expense. It’s the travel time in the athletes’ schedules. I know from experience that spending 3 or 4 days in Cali and then returning home just sucks the wind out of your sails for a couple of days, and I was just doing sales presentations, not competing physically at a high level. It’s a long trip, plus my body never did like something in “losing” those two hours coming back. It can be a grind. Not saying that makes it a definitive issue in all this, but I can see how it’s relevant.

Just to muddy the water a little more. What if ou,OSu,tech and Texas all go to ACC. They form west division and play each other. That leaves six more conference games which would only mean three away games that would involve extensive travel time. The time zone works much better than the PAC 12. This would be a respectable football conference and would encompass many of the major tv markets from Texas to the east coast. Basketball and baseball would be seeing beyond. THe LHN would be a non issue and ou could put their new studio they are working on to use.

Meh, I don’t buy into the travel time being a major issue. Unless I am wrong, all of UT’s sports teams travel by charter. Its like 3 hours from Austin to either LA or Raleigh/Durham if you aren’t making all the stops us Joe Schmoes have to make when flying. And I have had many more harrowing flights in and out of Lubbock than just about any other place I have ever flown…I’d take a flight to Boston in the dead of winter before flying into Lubbock in the spring!

Is it just me, or is everyone (especially A&M) retarded in this situation? The Big XII is the second best conference as far as college football is concerned and people are jumping into different conferences (and very poor situations) why?

UT needs to sit down with conference members and make concessions on evening out revenue sharing as far as tier 1 & tier 2 rights are concerned. Let’s get this done and get past this ridiculous “Let’s all jump into terrible situations because we can’t get along” talk.

We should definitely look at replacing Nebraska in the near future. I personally prefer Boise State from a competition standpoint but completely understand that it’s not realistic.

After A&M leaves to get their asce beat in the SEC year-in year-out, we should invite 7 ACC and/or Big East teams to join. I mean, Beebe can’t draw up a few hypothetical Big XII team alignments (so it makes sense travel wise), propose it to the different networks, and take that back to the prospective university presidents? Seriously?

Just my two cents,

But the thoughts that OU doesn’t have the votes border on the lunatic fringe to me. First of all - as many have already pointed out - the PAC has very few good options for expansion beyond OU and UT. Furthermore, both OU and UT are located in a region that would still at least theoretically put them in play for the SEC and Big 10 (and I guess apparently the ACC - fuck me.) So, if you are the PAC and you have a shot at either of these schools, you take it. The last thing Larry Scott wants is for OU to run into the open arms of Mike Slive.

Secondly, if you think OU has not already gone to the individual institutions in the PAC to determine if it will have the votes, you are being silly. OU will not submit an application to a conference if it does not know it will be accepted.

So… in short, Scott will be in favor of this and will push OU/OSU acceptance on the PAC schools. And please, do not bring up what his quote was a week ago - he had to say that. Slive also said the SEC had no plans for expansion. And if the OU BOR votes to submit an application to the PAC, they already know that they have the votes.

This isn’t A&M we are dealing with here… OU will have their shit in order in Monday.

In theory the travel concerns are in large part based on athletes’ families not being able to drive to games. At least that is what I have seen others say - that you need a critical mass of your away games that are within a day’s drive to be attractive to players’ families.

I have no idea if this carries any weight. But this is the answer that keeps coming out from people when discussing the cons of the PAC or Big 10 (much less the f-ing ACC).

Big ern? Let’s say ou and OSu go to PAC and Texas ends up going ACC. Who is 15 and 16 team for the PAC? How do those two teams alone help with tv market. Just asking your thoughts on this since no body really has all of the answers but we are all doing a lot of speculating.

Bevocalhorns - if the Pac 10 says no to OU, I bet that’d be very close to what eventually happens.

The pod concept is plenty workable in that case. Pods failed in the WAC but I think they’d work very well in a superconference. You can play all 12 teams outside your pod every two years that way, 6 per year, leaving three non-con games. The two teams with the best conference records play in the championship, regardless of pod or division. That way you can have UT and OU (or Miami and FSU) play every year without it being too disadvantageous when that’s your only loss. I like it.

No idea, Bevo. But I think if you are Scott you don’t turn away OU and OSU right now b/c you don’t know who 15 and 16 are.

Besides, I haven’t seen much on where in the hell Tech is going… and you still have Mizzou and KU hanging in the wind.

There are options to get to 16. If the PAC wants to be relevant, they have to take OU and OSU and worry about how to round things out later.

Besides, without OU and OSU, how in the hell are they getting to 16? Turn them down now, and the PAC is literally without options to grow.

I think OU brings a tv market - granted not okie tv sets, but I think any time a conference has a chance to add one of the top 5 historical programs, you do it.

Sorry I’m responding to your previous post, about the OU-OSU-UT-Tech to the ACC scenario.

Big Ern, I would agree that fan and family travel will be more difficult once the Big 12 dies, but as I noted, I imagine our OOC scheduling will be much more travel friendly to make up for the additional travel during conference play.

I also agree that the Pac pretty much has to take OU and OSU when the opportunity presents itself. However, I still wonder if it would be a unanimous vote. The academic big boys in the conference might not like the idea of taking OU and OSU without getting Texas and they haven’t been shy in the past on throwing around their weight. I also never saw any reports that said the SEC would invite OSU. OU really seems to be saddled with their little brother and the SEC probably doesn’t want to spend 2 of its last three picks in the state of Oklahoma when there are so many better options elsewhere. So if the Pac feels like OU is pretty much stuck with OSU then they may be willing to risk waiting on Texas to move before inviting OU/OSU knowing that OU can’t really go anywhere else they would like better.

Anyway, I agree that if OU decides to stay in the Big 12 it signals a potential rebuff by the Pac and if OU decides to pull up stakes then the Pac will offer without delay.

Big Ern - I’d agree for the most part, except I have three big reservations: not sure whether the Pac 12 can get its members to agree on academic issues, or the division split, or the legal issues that have kept A&M from boarding the SEC. I talk about it several comments up so I won’t go back into it here. But if you could tell me your feedback, I’m all ears.

If OU does decide to stay in the Big 12 I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that it was a move based on weakness or a rebuff by the Pac, I just mean it is a possibility. While OU has their own Stallings contingent, I think there are also a lot who agree with Switzer and don’t want to risk Texas recruiting by limiting themselves to OOC games in Texas or even worse perhaps killing off the RRS. For as much as Texas wants to keep the rivalry going, they have pretty impressive leverage should they decide to use it against OU.

Big ern makes good point about taking ou when you get the chance but I still have a feeling that ou and Texas are tighter on this deal than they are letting on. I think Daga is thinking the way I am about ACC unless PAC gives in on LHN. Who knows though? At this point anything could happen. I am glad they are meeting on Monday because I am ready for some answers. The other question is what are the collies doing? Are they just sitting and waiting for all of the dust to clear and then make their move or are they posturing for showdown with Baylor?

Ricky,

I agree on the travel front. I have never understood the concern there. You still play a lot of games in Austin and you schedule at least 2 OOC games in or around Texas that are easy for kids’ families to get to.

So my understanding from looking at the PAC rules is that they only need 75% of the vote. OU and OSU will get that - I would be shocked if they don’t. I agree that OSU would seem a strange bedfellow for Cal-Berkeley, but we thought we could get the Lubbockians over the hurdle.

I could certainly be wrong, but I think Scott had drilled it into these Presidents heads that they do not have many options for expansion. OSU is not that big of a blackeye - respectable football and bball programs, wealthy alumnus (just that one). Its not like they are having to take K-State here. And its not like the PAC is the B1G - I mean nobody is confusing Arizona State, Washington State and Oregon State with Purdue, Northwestern and Michigan State.

I think UT fans are so used to dealing with Dan Beebe’s management by absentia, that we do not understand how the B1G and PAC work, where commissioners actually wield considerable power over the University Presidents because those Presidents have bought into the long-term plans for the conference.

NCAA Championships in the Past 30 years (AP, UPI, or BCS) from teams currently in one of the 6 BCS conferences

SEC — 9 (5 different schools)
ACC — 9 (4 different schools)
Big 10 — 7 (4 schools)
Big 12 — 4 (3 schools)
Pac 10 — 3 (2 schools)

The ACC is fine in football and tremendous in Basketball, Baseball and many other sports. The Big 10 is great across the board too, and I think the Pac 10 is now back in football after a decade + of underperformance. The Horns playing football in any of those conferences will be much more fun to watch than the current Big 12.

One other note on the ACC. In the past 30 years, 6 of their teams have combined for 30 Top 5 AP finishes. As a point of comparison, A&M hasn’t finished in the AP Top 5 in more than 50 years.

Also, there is an interesting precedent for the Ags to consider. In the 60s, 70s, and 80s, Arkansas finished in the AP Top 5 four times, and the Top 10 eleven times. They also just missed with an 11th ranked finish another couple of times. That’s a total of 13 finishes in the Top eleven in the AP poll over a 30 year period. Arkansas left the SWC in the early 90s and hasn’t finished in the AP Top eleven since. Interesting stuff.

Regarding the overall negative propaganda concerning LHN and UT as a bad conference partner - why isn’t Byrne taking any heat for passing on the combined network idea. Have to think combined it would have been worth even more than the $300 million (minimum) we are getting alone.

And why aren’t all of the other conference AD’s not taking any heat for passing on the idea of a conference network?

These are the questions that boggle my mind in all of this. Can you imagine how much shit Dodds would get if we passed on a partnership with A&M or OU, and they had decided to go it alone with such a huge payday?

Are we the only school in the conference with a business school?

On the list above, the Big 12 and Pac 12 should be reversed. The Big 12 now has 2 schools that have combined for 3 MNCs and the Pac 12 has 3 schools that have combined for 4 MNCs in the past 30 years.

Bevo - I think that last point is really the nub. Going back to the poker metaphor, I don’t think even the major players are looking pretty right about now. Everyone at the table is sitting on a pair at the turn. We’ve got aces with a flush draw, but who knows, Baylor could triple its sevens. Or someone could lay out a convincing bluff. There’s a limited number of ways this can play out but I don’t think anyone will know what exactly will happen until the river card hits.

Dagga,

I agree with most of what you wrote, and can’t find anything that I really disagree with. I still think that if OU moves forward on Monday, it means they feel 100% certain they have the votes. Boren was a Senator, he knows how to count votes, and especially after watching Aggy trip on its own dick several times, OU will have things in order. Like I said a minute ago, the PAC is not the B1G when it comes to academics, and I am not even entirely sure that OU and OSU would drag down the median ranking. They have some pretty weak links in the chain already.

I am quite sure Larry Scott has told Mark Yudof (Cal’s current President - UT"s old President), look its Stillwater now or UNLV and the Mormons later. Pick your poison.

As for the legal mess…. I have no idea what anyone is thinking on that. I agree that a conference would seem to be foolish to move forward in this environment. However, seems like most close to the SEC think this is still just a matter of when not if on A&M. I don’t think Baylor’s threats are going to hold back the flood forever.

Patience isn’t one of my virtues but in this case we will just have to wait and see how it plays out. I think dodds has proven that he is a pretty good poker player and we have the biggest stack of chips at the table right now. I just get anxious because whatever happens will probably be long term and I hope we are in a good conference that will allow us to play good competition and give us an opportunity to win a mnc.

colorado ag - don’t you have some hiking or fly fishing to keep you busy? why are you trolling TEXAS threads? Will we see as much of you after aggy falls back to below class average in the coming years?

Being a Sooner fan, myself and most Sooner fans don’t vice a crap about the LHN and I don’t think Boren does either. As long a no recruiting advantage, blah, blah, blah, who gives a shit if a buch of Texans want to sit and watch Longhorn women’s volleyball, table tennis, OSU basketball or Mack getting a bikini wax. OU sees the B-12 losing a ton of prestige with the loss of Husker and Aggie. BYU/tcu/anybody else might be capable replacements for Ralpie, but there is no replacement for 2 80k + stadiums that are full every weekend. The B-12 is dying and OU wants out before the corpse starts to stink. Good luck to Texas.

eric1996, you are way low in Big 12 National Championships over the last 30 years. You may also be low for the others but here is my count off the top of my head:

Nebraska - 71, 94, 95, 97 = 4
Oklahoma - 74, 75, 85, 00 = 4
Colorado - 90 (or was it 91) = 1
Texas - 05 = 1

That’s 10 right there. If your total for the other conferences is right that’s #1.

NY Times reporting Syracuse and Pitt in discussions to join ACC…

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/17/sports/ncaafootball/syracuse-and-pitt-in-talks-with-acc.html?_r=1&ref=ncaafootball

Crimson jihad put the wheels back on your house and head for the west coast. Good luck mobilhoma!

Monahorns,

I was comparing teams in their conferences as they sit now. That means no NU or CU in the Big 12. Also, 30 years only includes 1981-2010. That leaves Texas’s 2005 Championship and OU’s ‘85 and 00 Championships. That’s all the prestige left in the conference. Pretty slim.

Bevocal- ouch. Don’t be hatin’ son. Not happy with your prospects, take it up with Deloss, not me. The way I hear it is UT is going to go w/ Sooner to the west coast. Deloss is just willing to lay low as the LHN created too much bad pub for Texas. With Sooner out front, Texas can avoid any more bodysuits to it’s rep.

Over the same period as the Big 12’s 3 Championships:

ACC has 9 (Miami 5, FSU 2, Clemson 1, Ga Tech 1)
SEC has 9 (Florida 3, Bama 2, LSU 2, Tenn 1, Aub 1)
Big 10 has 7 (Nebraska 3, Penn St 2, Mich 1, OSU 1)
SEC has 4 (USC 2, Washington 1, CU 1)

So the remaining teams in the Big 12 are behind all the other conferences other than the Big Least.

I am starting to think UT and ND are going to park everything but football in the ACC - with Pitt and Syracuse, would bring the ACC to 16. Football will go Indy.

Texas to the ACC is just such a stupid idea that it may actualy happen.

I think Big Ern’s link to the New York Times site, which reports Syracuse and Pitt are in talks with respect to joining the ACC, suggests that talks with Texas may be very far along.

We all know the ACC is one of ESPN’s darlings, and the reported $1B to Texas if it affiliates with the ACC may be too much for Texas to decline.

I still hold out some hope for the B1G, but it’s looking very suspicious that Texas will go ACC.

Monahorns: South Carolina is SEC. Clemson is ACC. Guess we better get to know the ACC a little better.

The entire conversation reeks of Chris Plonsky’s Money Myopia. We overplayed our hand. We blew up an easy path the NC (win the Big XII, which was tougher than it looked, but still) and now we’re reacting to the Land Thieves, and thinking about begging the ACC for admission. And all so we could wring more money out of football for women’s athletics because people will pay to watch an 18-year old move into his dorm.

Love the intelligent banter as usual, but could do without the frequent Christianity bashing… Hook ’em.

I think the ACC is playing their card to become the first 16 team conference. And so it begins.

@Dagga,

Did you write this? This is pretty much what I’ve been looking for the past week. If not, maybe you can supplement it with anything else you might know? Regardless, it might be worth a read/BC promotion.

http://longhornnetworkanddelusion.tumblr.com/

Sorry if this has been pointed out before. I just kinda scrolled through the comments as opposed to reading them all.

If we go to the ACC, Swofford should mail a framed picture of the troll face to both Slive and Scott with a card that reads “#winning.”

To comply with Domers Law, Frank the Tank claims ND will pull it non-football sports out of the BE, and place them in the ACC, along with Texas.

The Big 10 has been awful quiet since Aggy decided to shit itself. The last thing they want to see is UT and ND both help solidify the ACC. The B1G’s route to 16 always ran through South Bend and relied on easy pickings from the ACC.

The comments on this thread are diverse yet rational, so kudos to most of the posters here. A few thoughts to add…

As long as the Big 12 conference retains its current TV contracts and BCS AQ bid to the Fiesta Bowl, there is absolutely no need for Texas to rush to join another conference. If A&M, OU and OSU bail on the Big 12, that translates into quite a bit more money for Texas… how sweet/ironic that is! The additional money would come from (1) larger slices of the revenue pie for the remaining B12 members, (2) payouts resulting from Aggie/Sooner/Cowboy exit fees, and (3) more revenues resulting from more frequent trips to the Fiesta (or other) BCS bowl assuming Texas can beat out the weaker remaining teams in the B12. Texas can sit back, mint more money, and watch how successfully A&M and OU/OSU fare in the SEC and Pac.

Because of the LHN and the additional monies to be had (listed above) by remaining in the Big 12, it would foolish for the powers at Texas to make a rash decision to join any other conference (e.g. Pac, ACC, Big 10) if the terms are unfavorable to UT. Assuming 16-member superconferences will definitely exist in the future, that means 4 new members each for Pac, SEC, and Big 10 (12 new members total), not including the 16 members of some 4th superconference. So A&M, OU and OSU would represent the first 3 schools to jump to superconferences. That still leaves 9 + 16 more schools needed to finish the game of musical chairs. Texas and Notre Dame don’t need to jump now with the first wave of schools because they are big/valuable enough to wait and be among the last to jump. Much like how the Oscar awards for Best Actor/Actress, Best Director, and Best Picture are saved for last.

Staying in the Big 12 also means UT won’t have to defend against Ken Starr and lawsuits from Baylor (poor Aggies), and reigns in the time and expense of long-distance travel for Longhorn student-athletes (it’s obviously not the biggest factor but it’s still a consideration). When you add it all up, I think you can make a case that TEXAS should just stay at its post and hold down the Big 12 fort. Sure, it will probably have to be abandoned if/when the TV money dries up, but until then, why jump the shark into the superconference frying pan when you can stay home and get paid even more to dominate what’s left of the Big 12?

Of course, if ESPN wants to throw money at the ACC so that Texas can join, then that’s cool too, because it means the Longhorns really do have friends in high places.

Sash - i don’t know about most facts in that article, but the part giving Joe C credit for woking w/DD to set up the B12 is questionable. OU didn’t hire JC until 98, and his first job was to fire John Blake and hire Stoops. The B12 was 3 years old by then. Maybe JC did his magic at Mizzou.

Hey Sasha - you’d think it was me, right? His take is pretty much identical to mine though we’re looking at different sources (and his sources are better than what I’ve found). Plus, he’s got my long-winded style and infatuation with commas. RANTERS UNITE! But no that’s not me. Thanks for posting it though. It deserves more attention than a comment link so when I put something together (probably Sunday) I’ll be sure to include a prominent referral.

Poofy,

If OU and OSU leave, Fox will renegotiate the TV contracts. Pretty sure I have read that if the conference drops below 9, both Fox and ESPN can void the TV contracts.

I think the conference has to drop below 8 to lose the BCS AQ — not positive on that.

Either way, if OU and OSU leave, you would be killing a couple of recruiting classes if you stayed in this broken down jalopy of a conference. Not saying we would get nobody, but I guarantee you that UT would start losing some head to head battles that we did not lose in years past.

Poofy - following your logic, the teams that stick in the B12 will make more money when TAMU, OUand osu leave. That logic shoots holes in any claim Baylor (or any other remaining teams) may have agaist the departed. After all, how can one claim they have been injured when they are financially damaged when they are making more money than they were before the others left.

Crimson jihad- It may just be a mis-type. Most of the other things in the article I’ve read other places as well. Its just never been put in one spot before.

Also, someone mentioned on another thread a San Antonio Express article from a year or so ago about how the Big 12 came about. I couldn’t find the original article, but here is a copy/paste of it on a Baylor blog. It actually says the exact same thing regarding TX/OU talking, just with the name Donnie Duncan instead of JC. In other words, that Deloss and Donnie had talked about it before.

http://www.baylorfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83536

At any rate, I don’t know. I was still in high school when all this went down, and didn’t pay attention to any of this stuff until after college. Both articles seem well researched and reasoned, though. But again, I don’t know for sure if it is completely accurate, which is why I wanted to bring it the attention of the main bloggers over here. All of them have more knowledge of this stuff than I do and could verify/correct any misinformation. Dagga had mentioned writing something similar, which is why I posted to him.

Either way, I think it is worth the read.

Big Ern,

If Fox and ESPN renegotiate down the Big 12 TV contracts, that pretty much guarantees (Baylor or Iowa State or whoever’s) litigation against OU/OSU and the Pac, no?

Apart from legal, a short-term counter for the Big 12 could be to add SMU and a few “Little Sisters of the Poor”. To your point about killing our recruiting classes, I don’t think losing OSU is that big of a deal. OU definitely is a big deal, of course, but as discussed elsewhere, it cuts both ways if OU doesn’t want to continue the RRS as an out-of-conference game (assuming UT and OU head to different conferences). If the RRS continues as an OOC match-up, then the argument about killing recruiting is diminished IMO.

I am guessing it guarantees litigation. Doesn’t guarantee the success of the litigation.

It’s too late to read through every comment on this thread, but answer me this. Why can’t we be happy with equal revenue sharing for tier 1-2 rights, and give tier 3 rights to us through LHN? If we’e so confident that LHN is a gold mine, then let’s be entrepreneurs and put our upside solely in LHN, while being good conference partners by sharing equally in tier 1-2 revenue. And if you’re a conference cigar, why are you being an ass about tier 3 revenue? Let us take the risk and prove the business model, then you can be a B/C round investor in concepts that monetize tier 3 rights.

And for those of you who’s panties are in a wad about Texas losing recruits while we dicker around on conference realignment, STFU. This is a decision that we should be making with a 100 year time horizon.

Crimson jihad,

Good point. I think the fact that Baylor cannot quantify how much they will lose from A&M’s departure is what will make their legal threats moot.

After (assuming) OU/OSU depart, however, what will/can the Big 12 do to keep alive the current TV contracts? It’s not necessarily a contradiction to see the surviving B12 members make more money (via a larger slice of the pie) until the end of the road is reached with the current contracts and then teams like Baylor get a lot less money in a watered down Big 12 (or even worse conference).

Here’s an interesting article…
http://outkickthecoverage.com/big-12-television-contract-likely-to-protect-league.php

The Pac is clearly trying to break up the Big 12. The Big 12 schools should be threatening legal action to stir up a shit storm to make this whole mess unpalatable to the university presidents of the Pac. The presidents of UCLA, Cal, and Stanford are already gagging at the prospect of adding Ok State and Tech (might not be that thrilled bout OU either) to the Pac. It won’t take much to make these 3 dig their heals in against the expansion (diluting the Pac brand). This stampeding of universities into switching conferences because they are afraid of being left in the cold is unethical and unseemly and should be strenuously resisted.

Somebody should do a FOI request on the communications between Powers and Boren. If Powers is actively, stealthily torpedoing the Big 12, he needs to resign.

The Big 12 minimizes our travel, maximizes Texas power and flexibility within its conference. The idea that teams (especially minor sports) are going to have to travel cross country for conference games is mindless. The Big 12 provides an easy way into a BCS bowl. Who cares if the Big 12 is not as good as the SEC? As long as the Big 12 champion is an AQ, then the Big 12 has served its purpose.

OU does not want to split from Texas, they just want to force Texas into equality. Not going to work. We should work with Espn to help OU get their own network (though sustained scrutiny of the OU program might not work out for the sooners). Texas recruits are the lifeblood of the OU program. Anything that puts a crimp in that recruiting lifeline could easily shrivel OU football. OU football is not a natural dynasty, it is small state with few football players (nowhere near enough to be great in football). It was built on massive cheating and sustained by winning and Texas recruits. Texas has looked the other way when OU cheats because OU being a nationally prominent program has served Texas interests. Texas should make it clear to OU that if they work to break up the Big 12, Texas will no longer turn the other way but will instead instead investigate, document, and report every possible OU violation to the NCAA.

Anytime OU momentum is stalled even for a short while, OU football dominance is profoundly threatened.

Once there is a playoff system with at least 8 teams (preferably 16), the importance of super conferences goes away down because you can schedule whoever you want in non conference play. This is because the champions of the AQ conferences will automatically enter the playoff and their non conference wins or losses will have no impact on their post season prospects. Teams in AQ conferences will gladly schedule Texas because of the gate and national interest/exposure. College football is going to be vastly more interesting and profitable once it creates an 8 or 16 team playoff to determine the NC.

If Texas wants to avoid being controlled by ego maniacal assholes like Larry Scott of the Pac or Jim Delaney of the Big 10, it needs to work hard for a playoff system. Espn should also campaign for a playoff system to determine the national champ in football because it will make Espn a lot of money.

If forced to choose between the Pac and the ACC, the obvious choice is the ACC. The Pac (Larry Scott) has actively worked to destroy the Big 12 and refuses to let Texas keep the LHN. The ACC will be much flexible than the Pac in accommodating Texas needs. The games in the Pac will be on 3 hours later than in the ACC. Our athletes will have to play in these later games and then return to Austin, losing two hours of sleep in the process, rather than gaining an hour.

The Big 12, ACC, and the Big East ought to work together to come up with a strategy to avoid being stampeded. Naturally the eternally selfish and stupid aggies are the school to kick off this stampede.

I know its immaterial, as its not going away, but does anyone here actually give a S$%T about the LHN. We don’t need the money and we don’t need the recruiting advantage, we already have more of both than any other program in the nation.

After Nebraska and now A&M left our conference what we need are meaningful games of football. If we end up in the ACC, Independent, or in a cobbled together Big 12 of second rate teams it will be the biggest failure of what had been the greatest turn around of a college athletic program ever (seriously they teach this s$#t in the business school). The problem with running a college athletic program as a business is simple, its not a business. A business exists to make money for its shareholders, a college athletic program exists for many reasons, athletic development of students, school pride, fun, tailgating, excuse to relive college years long into your 70s, amongst many others. Making money allows our program to be successful in all these factors, but it is merely a means to an end, and not an end in itself. The athletic department need to sit down and draw out a spider diagram about why they exist, and then ask themselves, which of those reasons is reinforced by the LHN (and its subsequent alienation of all our historic rivals).

I do have a vision how this can all end well however (short of somehow managing to keeping OU and TAMU in the B12). The B1G is the answer. Here’s what we have to do. We have to get Notre Dame on board, and (this is going to make some of you roll your eyes at my lack of realism, others will spit out your cornflakes with its genius) …….Florida. Yes thats right get ND and Florida on board to join the B1G. Apparently ND already have interest, now we need to pull of the greatest Coup ever and pull in Florida for the ride. Why the hell would Florida leave the SEC I hear you ask? Well, simple. Prestige, academics, and that they know they are better than those SEC ‘ta%$s. Geographically Texas and Florida make no sense for the B1G, but as institutions they are like PB to the B1G’s J. It just needs the right type of persuasion, ask them if they really want to be rubbing shoulders with those redneck schools down there rather than Texas, Michigan, OSU, ND, or Penn State. Leave the SEC to Florida state or miami, those two would be a far better fit. Texas and Florida are B1G schools in the sun. Now for the final part of my genius plan. OU. OU? but they are not members of the AAU I hear you say? Well, you think if Texas, Florida, and ND went knocking on the B1G’s door and said you can have us but you have to bring them too they wouldn’t make an exception? Of course they would, Nebraska isn’t an AAU school anymore either. But why would we take them? first of all scheduling, it would allow us to play a 9 game conference schedule, second of all awesomeness. Texas, OU, Nebraska, ND, Michigan, Florida, Penn State, Wisconsin in the same. Suddenly the SEC is no longer the football conference. That is how this can all end well. However it won’t, we’re heading to the ACC as they are the only ones who will cave on the LHN, as they need us more than any other conference and it stinks.

Still, those trips to NC State, Duke, and Wake Forest should be be fun right?.

The other reason I would like to see us in the B1G is plainly to piss off the corn-munchers. Imagine the look on their faces when they put us in a division with them again. I would love it.

Well, I prefer Texas in the B1G. If Texas joined the B1G, I think ND would, too, and vice-versa.

However, Florida? In the B1G? With Texas and ND?

Yea, sure, that’d be awesome.

I’m still not sure how you pry FL out of the SEC, however. I mean, how do you do that?

OU? I don’t see OU’s relevance here.

Everythings bigger in Texas, including the wild imagination of its fans!!!

Well we could always the aggies along, but after they blew up the B12, I’m not sure I would want to do them any favors. Texas in the B1G and TAMU in the SEC would only serve to widen the gap of ‘prestige’ between the two institutions. This probably wouldn’t mean much to most Longhorns (who really gives a shit right?!), it would however seriously piss off our jealous little brother from College Station

Seriously though I’m a realist, I’m going to see if I can get a season flight pass from Austin to the NC research triangle. Whoop-D-f’n-Doo.

The fact that the ACC is raiding only two teams out of the Big East, and not four, tells me all I need to know. Texas and ND are next, and if not ND, then Tech.

That potential conference would be among the most nationally relevant in athletics and academics across the board.

Pistol & XOVERX,

IF Texas has to jump to a (different) superconference, then Texas and ND to the the B1G makes the most sense. But again, there is NO REASON for Texas to rush. Does anyone hear about ND administrators rushing to talk with B1G officials? Probably not, and if not, then Texas doesn’t have to rush either. I’m on the same wavelength as Kafka, Texas should sit tight and relax where it is in the B12 and collect the fruit remaining in the Big 12 TV revenue orchard. (See the outkickthecoveragelink from my earlier post.)

A&M and OU/OSU are leaving the Big 12 while citing Texas/LHN as the reason for instability, when in fact the Aggies and Sooners themselves are causing the instability. I don’t see any reason to give up the LHN. As an LHN subscriber/viewer, I know that it is still in its infancy but will (probably) grow up into a potent resource for the university. The LHN can/will be such a valuable tool that it’s easy to see why A&M and OU want to force Texas to divest itself of it.

3 quick points:

1) To say OU doesn’t want to go to the PAC and is doing this all to try to force equality in the Big Algebra is not true. There have been any number of articles in the OK press written saying a significant number of the OU powers that be (including Boren) regretted not making the move west last year.

2) Nobody knows if this is true, but there had been several reports that UT offered equal Tier 1 and Tier 2 revenue sharing to keep the conference together.

3) Nobody is getting their panties in a wad about recruiting. Dodds/Powers have a limited number of options and I am quite sure they have already thought through the pros and cons of each conference. I am not sure what sticking around in a Big Algebra (minus OU, minus OSU, in all likelihood, minus Mizzou) for a couple of years while they reconsider each option does for us that is good.

If the last 20 years of conferences have told us anything, it is that the 100 year time horizon is pointless.

Poofy,

I have been as big of an advocate of the Big X as anyone. I hope we end up there.

I would be careful trusting C’lay Travis from OKTC. There is another thread of BC right now basically detailing what a retard he is. C’lay has been run out of several jobs, but on the bright side, he is a lawyer. or has a law degree.

OK, all universities that would have turned down the LHN deal with ESPN please line up at the door with STUPID on it!

If we make a decision on conference affiliation, a decision which will have far reaching consequences in every aspect of University operations, solely on the basis of LHN and which conference allows us to maximize 3rd tier rights, criminal irresponsibility isnand has taken place.

I mean, if somebody can convince me we’d even momentarily consider the ACC in the absence of LHN, I’ll be quiet. I get that 3rd tier rights are important, I really do. But what about the first and second tier? Is there an argument to be made they their value ISN’T diminished in either a Big XII redux or ACC?

Not to mention… I still can’t see see this damn network and most Longhorn fans can’t either!

Pistol - the UF thing is interesting. I lived in Fla, and know that they have the same “market position” as UT - flagship school, toughest academics, same accusation of arrogance. I have always thought of them as a near peer to UT. I have to think they are as dismayed by the frequent trips to the NCAA penalty box by the rest of the SEC as we would be. Their only real in conference historic rival is UGA. If they could (or would!) play them and FSU OOC, in the B1G, I could see that flying.

One thing I do know Delaney is concerned about is the demographic reality of the Rust Belt Conference thing. The long term demographic trends don’t bode well for a conference centered on the upper Midwest states. Everything about a B1G with a UT and a UF would be better, by orders of magnitude. Recruiting, TV markets, alumni base attractiveness to sponsors and advertisers - everything.

That is a BIG play (pun intended) - a landscape shifter. What UT, UF, and potentially ND bring to the table might be enough to get Delaney to convince the presidents to yield on LHN, ND’s TV deal, and UF’s contract with SunSports. Otherwise, they are landlocked in an area that people are fleeing.

There’s a certain luxury to having 15 mil a year in your back pocket. In the end, Texas will do whatever is best, among the options that are available. Texas does not have to move until it wants to move.

After all these other whiny institutions go off in what they perceive as their own best interests, complaining all the while of how big bad Texas bullied everyone around by selling some third tier media rights and baseketball games, then Texas will do whatever works best. If some conference allows the best deal, that will happen, otherwise we’ll keep our media rights and do our own scheduling.

OU + FSU = lamest College Gameday signs ever.

The battle of wits between these two is like a battle to the death between mollusks.

I keep seeing the opinion that OU and OSU do not have the academics to fit into the PAC. This is not about academics. This is about football money. Hence the operative question is where can anyone like UT, OU, OSU go and be successful enough on Saturdays to continue to make a lot of money?

SportsCenter just announced live that Syracuse and Pittsburgh have formally applied for membership in the ACC.

The football world moves.

No SEC school is going to join the B1G. Period. It would be a recruiting disaster. Plus, the B1G financial model explicitly diverts revenues FROM the big boys (re: schools like Florida and Texas) TO the smaller schools, such Indiana and Purdue. You know, the very thing Texas refuses to do in the B12 (not alone in that, but certainly a staunch member of the club).

The B1G’s just stuck. None of the remaining big boys want any part of that conference, and the B1G doesn’t want any of the smaller fry.

As for NCAA doghouse and bad press, I believe Michigan, Ohio State and Iowa’s recent travails cumulatively equal anything emanating from the SEC.

Texas will never go to the B1G, for all the reasons cited above, plus this - there isn’t a room big enough to accommodate Delaney’s ego and ours. Texas wants a conference that’s feeling just insecure enough to give it everything it wants but big enough to be a respectable home. The ACC’s the only one that fits the bill, unfortunately.

Of all the reasons a conference would reject a school or vice versa, the publication rate of the faculty or the average SAT doesn’t make the Top 200. If Berkeley and Stanford can get along with Corvallis and Tempe, then you know it’s just a complete non-issue.

So the ACC pulls the string that starts toppling all the dominoes. Sorry, Baylor. Not sure how Ken Starr can litigate this one.

^ Having to deal with second rate diploma mills in Corvallis, Pullman, Tempe is bad enough for the Pac 12 elites, having to add in more in horrific locales like Lubbock and Stillwater may be the straw that breaks the camel’s back.

spider are you kidding? someone had a fire craig james remember the five sign, OU fancy huh?, and a holtz splash zone one…come on now

I don’t understand the fetish with LHN. So what if they share programming with Tech. The LHN can’t fill programming with only Longhorn games already. The channel would offer better games if it shared the load with Tech.

Everybody mentions $300 million but, come on, the Longhorns are getting $11 million per year. And that 70% boost split only comes after ESPN makes their $270 million profit. At the current LHN subscriber penetration rate, that’s gonna be awhile.

It seems Longhorns are under the impression the university is doing all the hard work. Puleease, this is an ESPN operation all the way. This must be Hell for DeLoss and the university. Their greatest dream has turned into this crap sandwich. Now they are considering the ACC because it’s what ESPN wants and can broker. I think the Powers grabs the wheel and points it west. This is what Monday is about.

Yeah, that’s right. I meant to say, “the Powers.” :)

Texas, are you really going to turn down the Rose Bowl, Surf and Turf, and Bruin cheerleaders? And that’s not to mention the RRS. I find that hard to believe.

OK, the Holtz Splash Zone was worth a chuckle.

Pistol,

I like the prospect of the Big 10 with a lot of tradition and big stadiums, but you’re giving short shrift to the ACC. FSU, Miami, Va Tech, Clemson, Ga Tech and BC would also present fun venues with good football programs in nice locations. The core schools of UNC and Virginia would not be bad to travel to either even though they have had less football success. Sure you’re going to also have Wake and Duke, but in the Big 10 you’ve got Indiana and Northwestern.

The academics are about equal and the non-football sports are better in the ACC. Also, you’ve got Miami, DC, Boston, Florida gulf, South Carolina golfing, and North Carolina scenery, all of which are more interesting than the extra-curiculars in the Big 10 (not to mention much better scenery in the stadium).

I would like the Big 10, but I’m perfectly fine with the ACC or Pac 10 too.

And the the rumor of ACC for non-football sports with 4 dedicated ACC football games in an independent football schedule may be the best option of all. ND and Texas switch off with FSU and Miami every other year, and then Texas gets Va Tech, BC, and UNC type games. Add in games with ND and OU, a few Texas games (have to include the Rice warm-up game), a Pac 10 game, a Big 10 game, and an SEC game and you’ve got the perfect 12 game schedule.

Eric,

Ding, ding, ding.

It seems to be there, eric.

I sure hope we do not let a technical school in Lubbock with average SAT scores that equal the bottom 10% of a UT. I hope this is all a smoke screen and not the tech tail is not wagging the dog.

i mean ….. the tech tail wagging the dog.

I have the definitive solution to our PAC-16 proble and I’m totally serious. The PAC-X currently pairs 2 schools’ tier 3 TV rights and creates a regional network for the pair.

All we have to do to make conform to this approach is to partner with Texas Tech on a regional network. I have a genius name for this regional network…………..The Longhorn Network!!

We keep our deal with ESPN and throw Tech something like $1MM a year for their trouble. Maybe we’ll even show a handful of Tech basketball games throughout the year (LHN is already going to shoe UTSA football games).

We are Tech’s only ticket to a place in one of the eventual “Mega Conferences”. In the PAC-16 they will make more money than they would have in the Big 12-2 and will have long term “stability” which apparently is worth an immeasurable sum these days. Without us, they will be stuck choosing between the WAC, MWC and Conf USA when the Big 12 implodes.

Seriously, why wouldn’t this work?

WyattEarp

What we can do is pack TT off to the PAC, while Texas stays home in the B1G.

Sooners might want to stay away from the ACC.

ACC football not entirely full of win this week, but certainly not full of suck either.

If the addition of Syracuse and Pittsburgh to the ACC is real, I believe this has strengthened the PAC-s position vis-a-vis Texas, assuming Texas is genuine in its expressed concern about minimizing the burden on our athletes, because now Texas to the ACC leaves it as a geographical outlier with no nearby conference mates. It also leaves Texas facing unappealing intra-conference alignments in the ACC (quads are probably out of the question). Now the Pac is the only realignment option that offers Texas some regional conference partners. I think if the PAC 1) agrees to the obvious quads, and 2) allows the LHN basically unchanged, then that’s our best option.

But I do think this strengthens UT’s desire to salvage the Big IIXII (assuming OU still has any desire to stay). There are also now several Big East teams as expansion targets (TCU, Louisville, Cincinnati) as well as BYU.

It does still leave in play the option I mentioned in an earlier thread - UT joining the ACC in all sports but football and offering to schedule 4 ACC non-conference games a year, with maybe some revenue kickers. I think this is more likely if the ACC stays at 14. This makes an independent schedule much easier for UT to pull off.

And were we to be ACC in all other sports we would have some leverage to schedule the games later in the season leaving the beginning of the season open for OOC games with other conferences.

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