Penn State Won't Give Up on Pursuit of Chris Petersen

He’s saving himself for TEXAS!

Texas loyalties aside, anyone taking the Penn State job is signing on for far more issues and trials than a typical job. In less than 30 days, this job became less than a top tier position. Peterson won’t be lured away.

I agree with BOA. Having to follow a legend and follow the aftermath of a huge scandal is a dangerous mix for any potential coach. Not to mention lost recruits and lower morale.

Wouldn’t it be a good idea for Petersen to get his feet wet at a BCS program like PSU, before we fully invest $ in his stock. What if he turns into a Hawkins? It’s not a guarantee he will turn into a Meyer, just sayin.

He’s not going to Penn St. No one wants to dive into that quagmire.

That said, we’re going to screw around and lose him while Mack drifts off into sleepy land.

So you’re saying there’s a chance.

If he goes to PSU and is any amount of successful, there is no way we’re able to pry him from there. They would pull out all of the stops to keep him. And thought we’re Texas, I don’t see someone leaving a legendary program like PSU for us if they’re winning.

tied_to_a_wheel Well if that was the case than it wasn’t meant to be for us to have him. Just remember were Texas were not going to settle for anything less than excellence!!!!!

Excellence as in David McWilliams and John Mackovic and tried to hire Gary Barnett?

“Excellence” as in two Big 12 championships in 12 years as the UT head coach.

My bad… 2 conference championships in 14 years.

Any legend was replaced by Sandusky and the cover up as soon as the news went national. Their chances of luring any respected coaching figure should be around nil. The NCAA, government agencies, and lawyers aren’t done with that bunch. They deserve all the repercussions coming to them and more.

What reason is there for Petersen to step between a target and an arsenal of loaded weapons to accept that job and destroy the good reputation he’s cultivated? Frankly, he’s better than that as will be many of his future job offers.

The Nittany Lions should target the inexperienced, the poor, the desperate (including the current staff), the unethical, or the alumni base for a coach. Maybe they’ll find a splendid combination.

In the meantime, they should negotiate the purchase of cmu.edu from Carnegie Mellon for their new branding as Child Molester University.

Hey dude with all the zzzzzz’s in your name, we get it already. You don’t like Mack Brown. You’ve made yourself clear over and over and over again already.

“Hey dude with all the zzzzzz’s in your name, we get it already. You don’t like Mack Brown. You’ve made yourself clear over and over and over again already.”

And you have made it clear over and over again how much you love the smell of his old jock. Frankly, I’m not satisfied with a 14% success rate winning the conference. Many dance around here billowing how wonderful things are because we are successfully “rebuilding.” “Rebuilding” implies that you fell from somewhere. 2 of 14 is not a fall.

The emperor has no clothes. It’s about time guys like you accept this. Your willful ignorant bliss is nauseating. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. If guys like you can’t see that 2 of 14 is a problem then you need this free intervention that I offer. You’re welcome.

2 of 14 shouldn’t makes anyone comfortable. If it does you, you might want to reconsider your own standards.

Liking MB has nothing to do with it…it’s just acknowledging that MB is NOT A GOOD COACH. Anyone who can’t see that has his head in the sand. Zzzizzzy is right, like it or not.

Stoops owns Mack Brown. So does Bill Snyder. Art Briles and Mike gundy are approaching that. UT needs a GOOD COACH!

Sure is a lot of sore vaginas around here. Christmas time and goodwill and all that.

“Liking MB has nothing to do with it…”

True. I “like” Mack just fine. I’m talking about his ability to create a successful football team. “Success” is defined as winning more than 10 inconsequential games — which, btw, we are not even doing anymore.

Mack would not have been hired if anyone had known that he would only win 2 B12 championships in 14 years. So, why does this record justify his continuation?

When posts like this come up, it just rubs salt into the wound. You talk about everything that affects Longhorn football and diagnose every issue except the real problem. I know that there are other nuances of the program that need to be discussed; but, the most poignant subject by far is when Mack will be replaced and by whom. So, stop making ad hominem attacks and throw some facts at me concerning Mack’s record if you want to defend him.

@J.R.
Gundy has beat Texas twice. And how many times has he lost, usually in embarrassing fashion?

When posts like this come up, it just rubs salt into the wound.

Then do yourself a favor and but a band-aid on it and save your complaints for threads that actually concern itself with Mack and the program.

“Then do yourself a favor and but a band-aid on it and save your complaints for threads that actually concern itself with Mack and the program.”

Thanks for your posts srr. I always enjoy them. Considering Mack’s record, I wish we could have a larger percentage of threads actually addressing the Mack timetable. By some of the barkers’ admission, info on this subject is filtered and couched. I understand this affects recruiting; however, Mack’s continuation affects winning.

For some reason, the same complaints that existed during the firemackbrown.com days still exist and those warnings have been realized; yet, talk of replacing Mack is taboo.

I thought we put down a deposit in a secret Cayman’s account for Peterson’s services that’s good until 2013?

Was Dan Hawkins a fluke?

BTW srr, a thread about Peterson would not even be posted here if it did not have Mack timetable implications. BC has made it clear that he’s likely our man.

Since it’s pretty clear to anyone that has been paying attention that Mack is already on an accelerated timetable to leave (hence the intense effort to revitalize the program) but feels honor-bound to leave the program in good shape (which is why he didn’t resign already [hell, he would have retired after 2009 but for Colt’s injury derailing the BCSCG]), I find your posts, Zzzizzzy, to be repetitive, useless, pointless, and abusive of perfectly good electrons that never did anything to you.

Suggestion: wait patiently till next year (because Mack is certainly not going anywhere in the meantime no matter your caterwauling to the contrary), quietly nursing your bile. If we go 7-5 again, come back and trumpet to all how you “told all of [us] so!” Until then, you are neither original nor interesting, but merely annoying.

Merry Christmas!

Lurker, if any “trumpeting” were due, it is due today — now. We are reaping exactly what many others wiser than I have said would happen with lazy recruiting and crony coaching staffs. Mack has done very little of what was surely expected of him a decade and a half ago when he was hired.

If he is so “honor-bound,” maybe he will donate a large portion of his excessive salary back to the university. If he was so “honor-bound” why did he accept full years’ pay for lazy partial coaching, recruiting, staffing, etc. I submit to you Mack is more “pride-bound” than “honor-bound.”

But sure, let’s do this all over again — over and over — year after year. Maybe we can get back to the days of beating 10 lesser teams, being out of the hunt by the middle of October, then gloriously winning a bowl game that means nothing. Sure, I’m up for that.

Zzzizzy - who would you have us replace Mack with at this point? Serious question.

I, like most reasonable people, look at our current crop of coaches and like where we’re headed. Do I wish we could have dropped some of the dead wood before it got to 5-7? Absolutely. The complacency that drove this program to those lows lay right at his feet. But if you’re going to give the man blame for the down times you have to at least acknowledge that he resuscitated one of the greatest programs in all of football. He was at the helm when Texas won their first national championship in thirty years. Yes, yes I know Vince Young won that championship. Well someone had to get Vince to campus.

I know you keep harping on conference championships, and that’s certainly a distressing statistic, two in fourteen; but you seem to be implying that failing to win a conference championship means failing to reach success. That’s a stupid viewpoint. No offense. Was 2008 an unsuccessful season? 2004? A conference championship is nice, it should be amongst the goals, but it should be a definition of success for any program; especially Texas.

So if you’re going to continue to criticize Mack Brown go ahead. Just try and be a little more thoughtful in your approach, and not quite so boringly redundant. Please.

Shouldn’t*

There is no reason to believe Mack will gracefully exit after another 7-5, 8-4 type season. He will say next year we are setup for a title run and our fans will listen. But if we lose to OU again nothing will save him. The end is near and it could get ugly.

I know there has been chatter on BC about Peterson being the de-facto leader in the clubhouse to replace Mack and he could be all that but I am not so convinced.

I know Boise has some quality wins over the past few years but there schedule is awful year in and year out. The B12 is not the SEC but its the next closest thing, its big time CFB and the mountain west is not.

But like another poster said, “who else would you recommend?”

I have know idea, I think on some level the HC hire is a crap shoot, hiring Nick Saban was a no brainer for BAMA as he had a track record, Peterson has a track record of 1 or 2 good wins a year and a sqeaky clean reputation and thats about it.

I thought Muschamp was a great candidate but given what he inherited at FL it will be interesting if he can turn that thing around, hell he may be available in two more years.

I know the longhorn standard is supposedly excellence on the field but the reality is that is not true, just look at the past 35 years. Mack’s 2-14 conference championships is tolerated because of the prior 20 years was wandering through the abyss only to catch lightning in a bottle every so often.

Back to Peterson, he wont take the Penn St gig, why would he take that when he is 1,2,3 on most coaching search lists. PS will struggle to get a big name, who wants that job during the upcoming trial and the program is dragged through the mud for months. Ouch!

If the team doesnt win 10+ next year I think Mack will have a tough decision to make and we may find out if Peterson is the guy.

The guy who should be fired is the one who allowed the official University of Texas football website URL to be titled “MACKBROWN-TEXASFOOTBALL.COM” … What’s next, Mack’s tomb in the tower?

2005 is fast becoming a distant memory.

Lurker,

Thank goodness MB didn’t leave after 2009 as the next guy would have taken full responsibility for what took place from 2007-2009. Lazy and poor talent evaluation, awful coaching, and stubborness.

Flaming,

Thank goodness Tim Brewster was on the staff as Greg Davis and MB didn’t even want to recruit VY.

VA,

Great post. Had Urban retired after Tebow graduated, the next guy would have suffered the same fate I reference above.

Because we wandered in the abyss for over 20 years with awful coaching hires, we accept Mack with all his faults. He won a NC, played for another and put us in two other BCS bowl games despite winning only 2CC. With that being said, we have suffered 3 humiliating losses to OU, choked the CC away in 2006, scored 0 points against OU with VY and Benson in the backfield in 2004, choked away the Big 12 CC in 2001 and could have back doored a date against Miami, and saw a huge step back in the program for the sins that we all know occurred from 2007-2009.

However, I’m excited about this new staff. I happen to think Searels, Davis, Wyatt, and Diaz are BMF’s. They don’t suffer fools, they welcome competition, and don’t promise playing time to recruits only the opportunity for playing time through hard work. Our only problem is we don’t have a QB, our WR corps is not good, our Oline is questionable (getting better), and we have no TE unless MJMCF shows up. Next year should be interesting indeed. The only problem is I happen to think a team takes on the personality of its head coach and we’ve been down that road before. Let’s hope our new assistants can overcome those handicaps.

The story title my as well read, “Holy Cow refuses to give up pursuit of Jessica Biel”. Same outcome will result.

I will forever be thankful for UT hiring Mack Brown after watching everything that went down from when DKR retired to when Mackovic was chased out of town. Maybe we could have done better. We sure as hell could have done a lot worse. His academic and citizen standards are way higher than most people realize. Stoops will find a way to pull a prospect irregardless of their personal demeanor or academic achievement. If that’s what you guys want then be a @#$%%^ Sooner.

I agree Groundhog,

I think the current staff is a really good one and I am hopeful they can overcome some of Mack’s weaknesses, good leaders surround themselves with people that compliment them and I think Mack has done that, he will get his chance to prove its all good in the next year or two.

I have said on many occasions that the Gilbert debacle just about killed the program, its amazing that one player could have such a detrimental impact on the program, its not that Gilbert was so bad, its that we didnt have an offense around him to help him out, RB’s, WR’s etc.

Now that ship has sailed lets hope Harsin can make Ash a player because if not I think Mack rides off into the sunset in1-2 years.

in 2008 OU had a graduation rate of 46%, TX 50%, Texas Tech 79%…….

Does Texas need to have a higher graduation rate? Yes. Can we compare what an athlete must do at Texas to graduate vs. what they must do at Tech to graduate? Not if we want to be taken seriously. I could type something in word and print it off and it would be as good as a lot of degrees that Tech has given to star football players.

I know our athletes take lesser courses and have tutors that tell them exactly what will be going on etc. but they still have to show up and take the tests in courses that progress towards a degree that regular students can use to graduate.

That being said, I want to compare graduation rates with Wake Forest, Virginia, Duke, Stanford. Then we can talk about raising our educational standard.

Mack Brown, like DKR, IS the University of Texas! How soon we forget and start howling “what have you done for me lately, you SOB?”. Mack has taciturnly admitted he needed what he wasn’t providing - coaching and evaluating. As a a superior CEO, he made the change.
From the time he stepped on this campus, Mack was never known as an x’s and o’s man. But he has made the UT program what it is today.

Edit — SRR50 (yell and scream at each other all you want — keep it civil or it will be cut)

I don’t agree wit making a change just for the sake of making a change. Mack has a lot of positive attributes. He won back the Texas High School coaches and unfortunately hung his hat solely on that rep for too long.

Some post infer we have to have Mack or Stoops, that there is no other leadership model. I do find that we are comparing to Stoops and his record of success, but others achieve success in different ways.

Until we have a slam dunk candidate in mind, even knowing this candidate would be a crap shoot as proven so many times by so many big institutions, I find that Mack is at least working like a new coaching hire would if he just got the job.

We just need a fucking QB for the short term. Until that is solved, even Knute Rockne would have trouble.

“But he has made the UT program what it is today.”

That’s a sword with two edges. He built it up and he has let it slide into mediocrityfor two seasons in a row. He also makes $5 million per year and right now he isn’t coming close to earning it.

Do I think he will leave this year? No. Given the hires he has made, I believe he has either seen or was shown the light and he isn’t going to be forced out before next season’s end no matter what any of us want. Therefore, any meaningful or fruitful discussion should, IMO, be focused on the immediate future, which encompasses the bowl game and next season.

If we lose to Cal, the exit door opens a crack. We’ve had a month to get healthy and prepare. As for next year, with both schemes fully implemented and with the talent on hand and incoming, if we win less than ten regular season games and/or lose to OU, he should leave. If he does that, then he has, IMO, bought himself an opp to coach a 2013 squad that should be a legit MNC contender if he wants. I personally don’t see him staying beyond then anyway (only my opinion—-nothing more). As for the QB situation, he shouldn’t be able to use as an excuse a problem he was instrimental in creating for the Holiday Bowl or next year.

For those asking the relevant question of who would you recommend to replace him, my answer is “whoever is the best available coach whenever he leaves.” We were looking for a head coach when we found Mack, and we’ll find a damned good one to replace him when he leaves. After all, if you don’t believe that, then I presume you believe we should just keep him forever and, when he dies, have him stuffed and placed on the sidelines during games. Whatever one may think of Mack in his current state, he is not irreplaceable. And with that talent this young staff and Muschamp have recruited, I’m pretty sure we’d be a great destination for whomever we want.

Just a thought….and though I am not wildly supportive in what Mack let happen the last four years regarding staff and recruiting…I wonder how many of us would have wanted to fire DKR after 1965’s 6 -4 record and 3 - 4 in the SWC (Tied for 4th out of 8 teams), and 1966’s 6 - 4 regular season with a bowl win to get to 7. He then followed with another 6 -4 in 1967.

Conference record for the period was 12 - 9.

Might have missed the two national championships soon after.

Just asking.

Jake - I agree the 5 mil is has not been earned.

If he was keeping status quo, I would be in favor of termination.

 However, he has made moves that warrant a reprieve for another season. He has worked like he is a new hire in building a staff and changed the recruiting model.

Zzzzizzzy, I skip your posts. You make good points and write well, but you’re repetitive and write with a tone that anyone who does not get up and cheer your opinion must be some idiot who embraces an unsupportable opposing viewpoint.

Just because everyone on this board doesn’t include a recitation of Mack’s:

1. Conference championship record.
2. Salary per year
3. Salary per month
4. Salary per week
5. Recent recruiting failure
6. Recent poor winning percentage
7. Tendency to clap

doesn’t mean that poster embraces all things Mack.

Reading the same stuff over and over no matter the context and no matter the validity is tedious. Your position has merit, but it begins to sound like a position taken by a parrot.

Stoops would not have won near as many CC’s if it weren’t for the sorry ass tie breaker system that we use. We have tied for first in the South division many times only to be denied the right to play in the Big 12 championship game due to head to head results or BCS bullshit. Mack’s head to head record against stoops is not lopsided and he has taken us much further than the two previous coaches we had. If Colt doesn’t get hurt I think we have two NC’s in the bank by now which would be one more than Stoops has at zero u. Stoops team was picked to win a NC this year and instead came apart at the seems and finished without even making it to a BCS game. I hear rumors that they are having a lot of internal issues and they are doing a lot of random drug testing right now up there. I also feel that he is starting to lose his appeal to recruits, look at how many Texas players he has verbal commitments from this year. The number has decreased steadily over the past several years.

Is Mack Brown perfect? No but he has shown that he is willing to make tough decisions to keep us on top and has stood by his principles throughout. Look at most of the other top coaches in the business over the last ten years and most of them have gone down in scandal

JIm Tressel
Joe Paterno
Rich Rodriquez
Pete Carol
Les MIles (NCAA infractions this year)
Lane Kiffin at Tennessee
 Mike Sherman at Miami
Bob Stoops with Rhett Bohmar
Gene Chizik (Scam Newton)
Oregon

 I am not happy with 7-5 either but overall the program is in good shape and we are positioned to be back at the top again once the players develop under our new coaching staff. If we are not back at the top by 2013 then I agree that we need to make a change and move in a different direction. Until then show a united front and don’t start to tear us down from the inside.

Alrighty then - who would be the concensus pick for UT if Mack left today? If we are to believe that Peterson has been the heir apparant, but is hired by Penn State - what then?

I knew I shouldn’t have said anything because the zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz’s usually only types out one sentence replies and he upped his game to entire paragraphs after my call out. All the same shit, though, over and over and over again.
What you can’t seem to comprehend, z man, is that nobody is happy with 5-7 seasons or 7-5 or 2 championships. We just choose to talk about something else some of the damn time.

bevocalhorns, great points

snide aside, I think you go after an up and comer like Diaz, that’s what Stoops was when he was hired at OU.

I am not saying he is the answer or has the experience but I think he has the “it” factor as much as anyone else out there.

Mack Brown has been a very good coach (and hire) at Texas. Before you jump on me, please note that I said “very good”, not “great”. A head coach is expected to do many, many things successfully at the same time, and it’s darn near impossible to find one man who who can do them all at the same time. A head coach is expected to recruit players that are:
1. uber talented,
2. are coachable (and a good fit for the intended scheme),
3. who have good character and team-first attitude,
4. will make good academic progress towards graduation,
5. will practice hard and play hard on game day.

A coach is also expected to:
1. win games,
2. win conference championships,
3. win national championships,
4. be media friendly,
5. be fan/alumni/booster friendly,
6. hire and retain good assistant coaches (who have their own career aspirations),
7. obey all NCAA and rules/regulations and other federal/state/local laws
8. work in close cooperation with his AD (and university powers).

Some of these goals can conflict with each other. For example, how to recruit 4-star kids to Texas (with all of its top facilities) while avoiding any semblance of entitlement? How to keep these kids focused on their academics when they know/believe an NFL payday is just a few years away? What about the family atmosphere at Texas, does that count for anything (or is winning more championships the ONLY thing that matters)?

Reality is that there are 120 Division I teams that are competing for the national championship and only one team can win it each year. Like poker, it takes a tremendous amount of skill to win, but oftentimes it also comes down to lucky breaks. For everyone saying that Texas needs to show Mack the door, keep in mind that Florida, Michigan, USC, UCLA, Miami, Florida State, TCU, Notre Dame, and Ohio State (who just hired Meyer) all expect to get back to the MNC game also. As already mentioned above, Texas (can probably) do better, but it can also do a lot worse. If you hold a King-Queen-Jack-Jack-10, are you going throw away your Jack to (try to) get that Ace?

Mack definitely stumbled in the last several years, but as discussed, his MNC win (and playing in another) have earned him more time, which so far he seems to be making progress on. The big question is whether Mack will show enough progress, fast enough. Will a 10-2 or 9-3 season next year be good enough?

Hiring new coaches is a crap shoot and Deloss has not shown a great deal of talent for selecting coaches. He had to be persuaded to bring Mack in over Barnett. He chose MacWilliams based on too narrow a search. He didn’t handle the Akers thing well.

He chose Weltlich which as a bad choice and Penders was an improvement, but couldn’t we maybe have done better? We’re also not doing particularly well in the non-revenue sports over the last few years although the Volleyball teams seems consistently good.

We may be better off with a football CEO like Mack bringing in great assistants than we would be with DeLoss fumbling around with another football HC decision. I’m willing to give the new staff more time.

For the record, I don’t know that I’d be any better at it than Dodds. Petersen looks like a good choice, but will he fit in in Texas? Part of Mackovic’s problem was that he really didn’t fit in the State of Texas. Mack sounds right and speaks the language. I’m the kind of idiot that would take a chance on Applewhite in a few years, but it’s all intuition on my part.

RomaVicta - I agree with you on Peterson. On paper he looks very good. But, as I have said on another blog, until Peterson makes his bones in a conference a little tougher than the WAC, the jury is still out on him. As we all know, Harsin found this out only too well this year.

You are also right on Dodds - people skills are apparantly not his thing - and for damn sure, PR isn’t either.

I think, when Mack leaves, we are down to two basic options - hire an up and comer or take a PROVEN name coach (Saban, Stoops, etc.,?) with a proven track record in a major conference.

RV: Choosing coaches is luck as well as science. Remember, when Barnes was hired (a home run), Dean Smith was telling Dodds he needed to hire Phil Ford, whom to this day has never been a head coach anywhere. Should Dodds have listened because Smith already had sent Roy Williams to Kansas?

Was Penders as good as they could do? Yeah, probably. For one thing, he wanted the job. Two, Weltlich had crash landed the program. It arguably was worse off than when Abe Lemons took over from Leon Black.

According to this, Petersen is NOT INTERESTED in the Penn State job.

http://tracking.si.com/2011/12/26/chris-petersen-not-interested-in-penn-state-position/

LonghornDoc & Bob,

Interesting responses and thanks. I wondered about my opinion of the Penders hire after I submitted the post. Was the Texas job at that time a plum at all? Quite likely not.

Les Miles to a recruit: “Each of our last 12 recruiting classes have played for the BCS National Championship. Each of our last 14 recruiting classes has won one or multiple SEC championships. And I have a winning record against Saban.”

What say ye Petersen? Mack?

With our cash and facilities and recruiting hotbeds, we should hire Saban or Miles within 1-2 years. Mack won’t get 9 wins again until 2013 at the earliest. It’s more likely that we will see another conference realignment for us before we see another conference championship. You must have a seasoned Jr or Sr QB to win those, and we won’t have that for 2-3 years minimum.

It would be foolish to pin all of the “bad” hires over the past 30 years on Dodds. He has worked for several administrations during that time, some of whom had a more “hands on” approach to hiring than others.

No way Texas should ever hire Saban or Miles. That would be like the Washington Redskins paying top dollar to trade for Donavan McNabb (from the Eagles) or Albert Haynesworth (from the Titans). In exchange for a “proven winner”, you’d have to pay huge money for someone in the latter half of their career. And with both these guys, there could be SEC methods that come with it.

If not Chris Petersen, Texas should do like OU and get a smart hungry coordinator like Stoops. Muschamp was going to be that guy, but Applewhite or Diaz could be as good if not better than Boom. Time will tell.

It appears Dodds wants to give Mack an extension to address retirement rumors, so maybe all the speculation on hiring a new coach doesn’t amount to anything:

DeLoss Dodds says he would like UT to give Mack Brown a contract extension of at least two years. Current deal is through 2016.

https://twitter.com/#!/mikefinger

Before giving Mack another contract extension, the UT BOR deserves to see a well-coached, well-executing Longhorns team beat Cal on Wednesday night first. I don’t blame DeLoss for saying that, however, since he’s playing with the house’s money.

Spit and tears -
“It appears Dodds wants to give Mack an extension to address retirement rumors”

This is a very interesting remark - I would love to see a link that justifies it.

A contract extension is merely a Vote of Confidence for recruiting purposes. It means next to nothing in terms of longevity.

“Before giving Mack another contract extension, the UT BOR deserves to see a well-coached, well-executing Longhorns team beat Cal on Wednesday night first. I don’t blame DeLoss for saying that, however, since he’s playing with the house’s money.”

That’s all it takes? A win against Cal?!?!?!

A Mack extension is disgusting. Offering a rubber stamp for what Mack has done here is the height of absurdity. If this is a move to solidify recruiting, it is an expensive one. Next year Mack will be propped-up on the sideline with a broomstick up his rear end and a nursemaid administering a straight cocktail of mainlned testosterone and adreneline.

We continue to wander in the desert.

Great smoke screen for restructuring Mack’s contract.

With srr. I doubt Mack would see an extra dollar out of any extension.

When football coaches retire and/or are asked to leave we always give them a parting gift — even Mackovic was still on the payroll for a couple of years.

This is simply a response to the retirement/replacement rumors before they get out of hand on the recruiting trail.

Getting upset over this kind of extension is a total waste of energy.

Here ’tis

“Texas is considering a contract extension of more than one year for football coach Mack Brown, AD DeLoss Dodds tells the Dallas Morning News.”
Tweet from DMN’s Chuck Carlton, who went on to say that Dodds hopes the move (pending approval by regents) will quiet talk of Mack stepping down (unlikely)."

QUESTION: How many conference championships does Longhorn Nation truly think THE mighty University of Texas Longhorns football will win over Stoops, Snyder, Holgersen, Gundy, Briles, Tuberville, Weis, Patterson, et al in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016? Note: 2015 will likely be Connor Brewer’s junior year at QB.

ANSWER: Not five million dollars worth.

I hope I’m wrong.

Note- UT is one of the top 5 winningest programs in college football history. Mack Brown is the second greatest coach UT has ever had.

Just a little perspective.

A contract extension is merely a Vote of Confidence for recruiting purposes. It means next to nothing in terms of longevity.

Longevity? Likely correct. But at $5 MegaBux per Year, it could add a little to the canopy of the Golden ’Chute… unless, of course, the Party of the First Part turns out to be an Immune Sovereign and the contract is essentially worthless.

@mikefinger Mike Finger
Dodds on extending Mack: “The rumors (of his retirement) have all been wrong, and this is just a way of addressing that.”

Why was DeLoss quiet as a church mouse when it came to defending UT and the Longhorn Network from all the accusations earlier this year, but he is so proactive to vocalize support for another $10 million (Mack @ $5M x 2 years) to address rumors about Mack retiring?

Why was DeLoss quiet as a church mouse when it came to defending UT and the Longhorn Network from all the accusations earlier this year, but he is so proactive to vocalize support for another $10 million (Mack @ $5M x 2 years) to address rumors about Mack retiring?

Deloss doesn’t control the LHN — that is ESPN.

And again, bitching about the extension and even the money is foolish. It means nothing in terms of longevity if another 5-7 happens, and we always take care of ex-coaches. The number doesn’t matter when compared to what the revenue was when Mack got here and what it is now.

srr and TTR have it right. zzzzzzizzzy is I suspect, a troll, or a reincarnation of RS. We will have stability and continuity in our program, even if it costs a few dollars. To do less cheapens our program, our alums, and our reputation. Behavior that some classless individuals struggle to understand.

Some corporations, individuals, and universities screw people, cut corners, and cheapen themselves and those they represent on a regular basis. I prefer to be associated with those who treat individuals with decency.

Hook ’em!

I was watching games from 2005 on LHN yesterday and noticed how much the stadium has changed in the six years since then. Pretty impressive visual evidence of how the program has soared financially since Brown arrived. I believe the only thing that had changed since Royal left was eliminating the track and lowering the field to accommodate more seats in the original stands.

Ultimately, any Texas coach must be successful on the field to hold his/her job. One can argue that top coaches salaries are way too high, but it’s hard to argue that Mack shouldn’t be in the elite when it comes to pay. He’s paid for himself and more.

“lonesome devil said: December 26th, 2011 at 10:07 am

Jake – I agree the 5 mil is has not been earned.

If he was keeping status quo, I would be in favor of termination.

However, he has made moves that warrant a reprieve for another season. He has worked like he is a new hire in building a staff and changed the recruiting model."

Well, isn’t that what I basicallly said in my post???

All you MB haters, do quick to point to conference cahamionships, need to wrap your heads around this ranking:

http://t.co/JXjcIkDO

80.14 win %, trailing only two BCS conference coaches, and one of those by only .13 of a percentage point. Tell me, from this list, who is better?

One of the great things about being an Orangeblood for almost fifty years (as far back as I remember - Tommy Nobis is about the start), is you have some perspective. I’m sure people thought that getting rid of Fred Akers was the one thing that kept us from Valhalla. We know how that turned out. Get rid of Mack and there is no guarantee of an improvement. You kids are spoiled - with a ten win sense of entitlement. Nothing is guaranteed.

Now get off my lawn!

Not to try to derail this thread with a coversation about Penn State, but can someone explain to me the conventional wisdom that says that the Penn State job will be a horrible one? I get the magnitude of the scandal, but as it goes forward, it’s going to have less and less to do with the football being played there. A new coach would presumably bring in his own staff and people, and the Administration is going to be a bunch of new faces as well. In addition, the number of players will be turning over constantly. So why would Penn State suddenly be a horrible job?

Nick - they were talking about this on ESPN yesterday. First is the issue of following a legend. Ask Fred Akers or Gene Bartow how that worked out. Then, throw in the Sandusky turmoil, and unknown NCAA penalties. But the biggest might be the unrealistic expectations of the PSU fan base. They are fighting to be #4 in the B1G ( behind OSU, UM, UW, with a suddenly tough MSU fighting for that fourth spot). Problem is, the fans don’t see it that way. Almost agroid like in their delusions. Might take someone taking the job, and failing, to get the expectations in line. Toss in shrinking populations in their historic recruiting base, and you have a tough job.

TexasNick,

My assumption is based on the scandel for the most part which will get much worse before its gets better, if you are a top tier HC candidate, why would you take that job over other good jobs, that is my main point.

CFB is also being dominated by warm weather teams in the past decade, save OH States NC in the early 2000’s.

Having said all of that I wouldnt say its a horrible job but not the cream of the crop either.

The put it in perspective would you rather have the A&M job or Penn St, I think you would want the A&M gig and its not like everyone was beating down the door to get that one.

“zzzzzzizzzy is I suspect, a troll”

Why post if all you do is throw names and not facts? If you disagree, prove it with more than how you feel.

“80.14 win %, trailing only two BCS conference coaches, and one of those by only .13 of a percentage point. Tell me, from this list, who is better?”

80.14% of games won, shiny new stadiums, all the best recruits, highest paid coaches, LHN, “We are Texas;” yet, we don’t even make it out of the blocks of winning the conference championship except 14% of the time. Why am I the only one who sees the sad irony of all of this?

I am 100% sure Todd Graham would take the job TODAY if offered.

Why am I the only one who sees the sad irony of all of this?

You’re just special…

I can come to grips with the fact the die is cast for at minimum one more year of Mack’s effete “CEO-ing” for at least another year. I do feel that the newly assembled coaching staff merits this vote of confidence and we have not yet progressed to the point where the MBOC (Mack Brown Opportunity Cost) becomes a delimiting factor. I have reconciled with this reality.

But, floating the idea of an extension after a 7 - 5 season in which we limped to the finish losing 3 of our last 4 is DeLoss Dodd’s way of giving us internet “parrot” fans the bird. Mack’s contract runs through 2016 already. There is no realistic possibility of anyone hiring him away, so I fail to see the reasoning behind this unilateral move on DeLoss’s part. This is bullshit any way you cut it!

There is no way I would support a Bob Stoops program at Texas. He is one of the most corrupt and simultaneously overrated coaches in college football. There is a reason that some of the latest big time recruits are having second thoughts after actually visiting the OU campus. If you don’t like Mack Brown fine, but don’t even suggest we should be going to someone who is just as bad at coaching and a total disaster when it comes to the other aspects of the role required at Texas.

Texan Nick- the problem at PSU is that 80% of their most accomplished teams’ photos have a serial pedophile in the photo. The problem is that the football complex weight room was a stalking ground, and football complex showers were rape sites. Any new coach will have to figure out how to embrace heritage while rejecting the horrors. Frankly, any new coach can’t be blamed for wanting to burn the whole thing down, but in doing so he rejects all the tradition. Who wants that job?

Zzizzy- Mack should have more conference championships. True. He is to blame in ’01 and ’06. He is not to blame in ’08, as cronyism carried that day.

By every other standard, Mack has done great- wins, bowl wins, top 5 finishes, a MNC. Mack will be in the coaches HOF, largely due to what he accomplished at Texas. That’s a good hire.

I don’t understand the “we’re happy because we won 10 games” mentality. On our Texas baseball teams, our goal was to win championships—period. Not “we won 40 games so we should be happy.” Our goal was to win the conference championship and the national championship in Omaha. Period. Any time we didn’t, were were disappointed. Maybe that’s why the baseball team has won 70 conference championships and been to Omaha over 30 times. Our HCs instilled in us that mindset. THEY were disappointed if we didn’t win the cc and the nc—-and we knew it.

Once upon a time, our football team had the same mindset. Coach Royal won 11 cc’s in 23 years as an HC. Switzer won 12 in 16. Osborne won 13 in 24. Bryant won 15 in 38. Pete Carroll won 6 in 9 years.

Stoops has won 7 cc’s in 12 years as a HC. Beamer has won 8 in 27. Petersen has won 4 in 5. Chip Kelly has won 3 in 3. Saban has won 4 in 16. Patterson has won 5 in 11. Spurrier has won 7 in 15. Bielema has won 2 in 6. Petrino has won 2 in 8. Miles has won 2 in 11.

Mackovic won 3 in 16.

Mack Brown has won 2 in 28.

Wake up Deloss. Winning more games than Mackovic + having 10 win seasons + being owned by OU every year deserves temporary applause, not $5 million contract extensions and idolatry.

Smarter and more aggressive HCs at substandard schools with a fraction of our resources are regularly finding ways to beat us now.

The Mack Brown era is over, whether Mack and Deloss realize it or not.

National Championships, BCS bowls and top 10 finishes are what the average fan focuses on these days. If you are in the National Championship or a BCS bowl, it really doesn’t matter if you won your conference. Your overall record and final ranking are much more important than whether you won your conference championship.
All schools would rather finish 11-2, ranked 5th in the final polls rather than 9-4, conference champion and an 18th ranking in the final polls. Valuing conference titles rather than record and final rankings is something the Mack haters do to justify their dissatisfaction with Mack.
Give me a top 10 winning percentage and consistent top 10 final rankings, I could care less about conference titles, except for the fact that a loss will hurt a teams chances at playing for a National Championship.

zzzizzzy, you really should shut up already. For starters, you sound like a braindead parrot or broken record. We all know, you hate Mack Brown and think he is a bad coach. We get it. We got it 67 posts ago. If every post you’re going to write is just that we should fire Mack Brown, but you add nothing of substance to the conversation, please write nothing at all. These boards are of value in large part because of the input of intelligent and knowledgeable posters, neither of which describes you to date.

Secondly, your argument is asinine anyway. You’ve chosen one statistic that you’re clinging to like a little child throwing a temper tantrum that validates your claim that Mack Brown is a bad coach. Let’s look at some other numbers. In winning percentage, Mack is excellent. In bowl record, Mack is excellent. In recruiting, Mack is excellent. We are the greatest revenue-generating and most profitable program in the country. You want to tout the 2 of 14 conference championships line endlessly? Well how about playing in 2 national championships and winning 1? Playing for a national championship every 7 years and winning half of those (and actually playing by the rules) is a line any school out there would take. You do realize that we have only won 4 national championships in our school’s fine history, and only 1 coach not named Mack Brown won any of those (and unfortunately he is not coming back to coach the Horns any time soon).

Let’s look at some other statistics. Twice Texas has won the conference under Mack Brown (as you’ve pointed out 397 times now by my count). In both of those seasons, Texas went undefeated in conference. 5 other times, Texas under Mack has had only 1 loss in conference, with 0 championships to show for it. Don’t you find that a bit odd? Maybe the Big 12 has bad tiebreaker policies and there is a media bias in favor of OU because Stoops has 2 conference titles where his team lost 1 game in conference and 3 (!) conference titles where his team lost 2 games in conference. Prior to the last 2 seasons, Mack Brown has only had 1 season in 12 years where his team lost more than 2 conference games, and yet of the other 11 seasons with 0, 1, or 2 conference losses, Texas only has championships to show when it has been undefeated in conference and won the Big 12 south outright. Odd, no?

So you can chalk it up to bad luck, or dumb tiebreakers, or media bias, or a multitude of extenuating circumstances. One statistic does not come close to telling the full story, no matter how many times you yell “14% conference championships! 14% conference championships! 14% conference championships! 14% conference championships!” In just about every other category, Mack Brown has been nothing short of excellent for Texas.

The last 2 seasons have been rough, true, but most of the fanbase (at least by my understanding) is quite happy with the new faces coaching and the current crop of young players. This is a very talented young team that should be building towards being a national title contender sooner rather than later. If it does not develop and instead disappoints next season or the next, when that young talent should be coming into its prime, then it will be time for Mack Brown to step aside. Right now, it would be knee jerk reactionary to force out the second best coach Texas has ever had and risk losing good-to-great assistant coaches, potentially shattering a superb recruiting class, and/or losing out on the coaching hire crap shoot with another Mackovic. Mack Brown has done enough at Texas to deserve not only the chance to put this back together, but our confidence that he can do it. If the program were trending steadily downward (a la Bobby Bowden), it would be a different story. We took a sharp, sudden decline and are trending back upward. Mack should and will get the chance to take us back to the top.

I think I see the problem here. Most of the posters on here seem to be devided into two factions.

Faction #1 - Resents paying Mack what we do while he only delivers 2 Big 12 championships. Is not particularly interested in his other attributes - school brand promotion, honesty and integrity, recruiting wizrad and multiple years of 10= wins for the program. Believes, for the price, we should have large quantities of championships - National and Conference. Otherwise, pay him less and they would be happy.

Faction #2 - Believes, if anything, Mack is not paid enough. Delights in the integrity of the program and the squeaky clean image of Mack and UT in the arena of football. Appreciates the lofty reputation of UT football and UT as a whole that Mack has brought to America. Understands that, in no small way, Mack has elevated UT to the richest franchise in America - lending credance to the fact that his salary is peanuts compared to the money UT makes because of him.

SOLUTIONS

Faction #1 - Hire shady, successful coaches like Saban and Stoops as winning championships is all that matters - devil take the hindmost. Risk the corruption of the SEC, and the hiring of coaches that lbelieve “If you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying”.

Faction #2 - Hire reputable coaches that believe in integrity, honesty and in the welfare of their recruits, players and families. Hire coaches that are loyal to their word and their school and that don;’ job hop at a moments notice. Coaches that are constantly endeavouring to promote UT.
Oh, wait……don’t we know someone like this?

I don’t get those who are so quick to want to throw Mack Brown to the curb.

His teams haven’t won a bunch of Big XII conference championships. Big friggin’ deal. His team went from playing for the BCS championship to 5-7 overnight. That’s a fact, and so it is also that he was reactive in making wholesale changes to his coaching staff following 5-7. All that proves is Mack is loyal to those that stick by him, and Mack is NOT the greatest college head coach in history. I can’t speak for others, but I think I got that last point even way before 5-7.

I have a memory that goes back longer than last season. I remember that during the Mackovic years, the McWilliams years (The “Shock The Nation” season excluded…) and the tail end of the Akers years, UT was essentially Nebraska, a former championship contender that was living on its’ memories, while barely keeping its’ head above water in football. I remember when there was jubilation around here when even a four star chose UT over OU or agricultural. I remember 5.00 north end zone tickets available at any HEB in town (…and man, I miss those!!!), and I remember agricultural’s players doing their dance on the UT symbol in the middle of the field at DKR Memorial after a win, and nobody punished ’em. I remember Mackovic treating Coach Royal and former players and influential alums like they had a social disease, making them NOT welcome around the team.

I remember Mack replacing Mackovic, and I remember Mack embracing EVERYTHING UT, it’s traditions, Coach Royal, the fans. I remember Mack promised better days, and delivered on that promise immediately, putting together a solid recruiting class in a matter of days while knowing little or nothing about the state of Texas. I remember Mack brick by brick building UT into a perennial contender. Again, I can’t speak for anyone else, but I SERIOUSLY doubt UT has the high profile it does today without Mack being here. I concur with those who say he’s the second best head football coach in UT history, and I don’t thing there’s that much of a gap between him and Coach Royal.

Say what you will about this year’s football records, but the Horns improved, dramatically in some areas, and the rebuilt coaching staff generally did a great job compared to the old staff of 2010. If nothing else, the current staff seems to all be on the same page, and there’s a lot of promise for the next two or three years’ teams. I doubt anyone could have predicted that at this time last year.

I get what Dodds is doing, saying Mack’s seat is NOT even warm. Mack may have some perceived flaws (Don’t we all?), but he’s earned the breathing space he’s getting to continue the rebuilding job. I have an idea next year’s team will be markedly better, and not just because Jonathan Gray arrives. I get as frustrated as any other fan with some things about Mack Brown, but I honestly don’t see anyone out there I’d trade him for. Not Stoops. Not Saban. Not the mad hatter. I’m actually kind of curious to see what results will come over the next couple of years from the things Mack’s put in place over the last year.

My final thought to those who seem so adamant about seeing Mack replaced…Be careful what you wish for. It took UT almost three decades to find an adequate replacement for Coach Royal…and Coach Royal would be quick to tell you even he had his detractors.

Faction #3 - people who see the same 5 or 6 posters posting the same material constantly both within particular posts and across multiple posts and are ready for some new material already.

Bravo, Andrew. Bravo, coolhorn.

“Reality is that there are 120 Division I teams that are competing for the national championship and only one team can win it each year. Like poker, it takes a tremendous amount of skill to win, but oftentimes it also comes down to lucky breaks.”

THIS. There are about twenty schools in the country that truly, and quite delusionally, believe they should win the national championship about every four years. Texas is one of them. The maths, they do not works.

Zzzzzizzy, if Mack had won ten conference championships and no MNCs, would you be just as unhappy? Also, I’ll risk offending some by pointing out that, with scholarship limits, it’s kinda different than when Royal could take 40 dudes a year just so middle echelon talent wouldn’t face him at Rice or SMU or TCU. This is not the competitive landscape we live in.

I don’t begrudge anyone’s thinking Mack is not a good game coach, or questioning his personnel decisions, or saying 5-7 or 7-5 isn’t fun. But to flatly declare that Brown has not been “successful” invalidates just about any otherwise valid point a Brown detractor might make. By almost any measure—yes, except conference championships!—he’s been successful beyond anyone’s reasonable expectations when he was hired.

Someone on this thread actually suggested that Briles and Gundy are on their way to “owning” Mack. Please reconsider.

Mister Orange says,

“Let’s send Nice Guy Mackie to Happy Valley, and hire Petersen ourselves.”

All of you “I remember…” guys seem to think that just because we sucked for decades after Royal, we should be satisfied with mediocrity — and compared to the potential associated with big money, top recruits, and top facilities, yes, our results are mediocre. Raise your standards.

The rest of you 2 of 14 apologists blaming Mack’s dismal conference showing on everything from the “tiebreaker rules” to “media bias” can’t seriously be typing with a straight face. We crucify Aggies for the same logic. We don’t need any excuses if we aren’t out coached most years by by that mean old lower-paid coach from a poorer school north of the river with less than half the student body.

Finally, we all agree that the past two seasons were disasters. We all agree this was due to lazy recruiting and poor coaching. It is undeniable that the buck stops at Mack for both. But, you just can’t bring yourself to make the logical conclusion that Mack is a poor head coach. The last two seasons are Mack’s fault, period. A coach with drive and pride would not have let this happen once, yet everyone not only wants to give him a pass, we applaud his workman efforts during “rebuilding,” as if getting BACK to wining ten games but playing for nothing is so incredible.

The “walk” of second-tier bowls and second place in the south division of our conference year in and out doesn’t reconcile with our “talk” and our brand. Those of you apologizing for playing second-fiddle even in the 6-team division to which we recently belonged are part of the problem. Don’t hate me just because your standards allow you to be happy in line behind OU and mine don’t.

5-7 will be the best thing that happened to this program. I’ve turned companies around and it doesn’t happen overnight. But every one came back stronger. Some people aren’t able accept the fact that having two down years is nothing in the grand scheme of things. These people usually lack vision or common sense or just like to bitch on the internet from the safety of their mothers basement.

zzz - I hate you solely because you use a wildly inefficient and unpronounceable handle. No other reason. Though I guess it’s not as bad as Patel O’Flanagan Muhammad Rae Dawn Chong van der Beek.

Also, this argument is stupid. I humbly submit that the decision to keep or fire Mack is neither an easy and obvious choice nor is it an option on the table. Next topic.

dagga, patel . . . beek is affectionately known as mune pi, if that helps.

I can see why Chris Petersen would not want to go to PSU.

Odd timing for extending Mack’s contract since it already runs through 2016 and Texas has a losing conference record both of the last two years. It is an enormously expensive way to counter negative recruiting, especially when Texas recruiting seems to be doing fine. DeLoss obviously wants to avoid having to hire Mack’s replacement. Can’t blame him since it took him so long to find Mack Brown.

Back when coaches made much less money, paying them a few extra years after they have been replaced might have made sense. Once a coach is making several millions of bucks/year, that is no longer necessary or even proper. A contract is a contract and should be no longer than is in the best interest of the school. Mack is under contract through 2016 so there is no need to renew that contract yet. Mack will be 65 in 2016. Let’s see how the next few years go and revisit the question closer to the end of the contract and after there is tremendous improvement in on field results relative to the past two years (especially in conference play).

A question that is interesting (at least to me) is how many defenders (on this blog) of Mack have a conflict of interest. That is, they have a professional or financial interest in Mack staying as the Texas head coach. It probably is not a large number but it seems very likely to be greater than zero.

kafka, mack may be telling deloss and the powers that bill that he will voluntarily step down in a couple of years when he feels he has righted the ship. if so, it doesn’t matter whether they extend him a hundred years. of course, they must be very sure of him to do that, but mack has shown to be extremely trustworthy. only worry would be his deciding it still isn’t quite righted twenty years from now. they would need some ironclad assurances, but it would shut some people up.

Back when coaches made much less money, paying them a few extra years after they have been replaced might have made sense. Once a coach is making several millions of bucks/year, that is no longer necessary or even proper.

Mack will either retire or be forced out. If he retires, the rest of the contact is void. If he is forced out there will be a negotiation that will fit reasonably into other negotiations in the past and in relation to the increased revenues. This is not that expensive a gesture.

A question that is interesting (at least to me) is how many defenders (on this blog) of Mack have a conflict of interest. That is, they have a professional or financial interest in Mack staying as the Texas head coach. It probably is not a large number but it seems very likely to be greater than zero.

I have no idea as to what you are talking about. Expand please.

No one who makes $5 million a year retires. Mack will be forced out. Just like Landry. Bowden. Paterno. Gustafson. Etc etc etc. Retires when he thinks he’s righted the ship? Please.

1776, you must think very little of Mack.

bertdbob - It’s amazing how many on this blog don’t like Mack. Although, I suspect zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz is really an OU mole and trying to stir dissent.

1776, mack made an irrelevant Texas program arguably the most relevant program in the fbs. Won a title played for another. You wanna play around with head coaches? That’s not a fun game to play.

Zzzizzzy hangs out over at Beerguts aggy site along with the BON site, he likes tempting reaction from the aggy. For some reason he is much more discrete over there. He just enjoys stiring the pot, including the Longhorn pot.

“All of you "I remember…" guys seem to think that just because we sucked for decades after Royal, we should be satisfied with mediocrity "

Straw man argument. Also the “satisfied with mediocrity” argument does sound very Aggie.

Jonesing for smoke ring tales and precise practice reports….or do I have to become a pay-site member?

zzzizzzy,

Wow, you could not make it through even one whole post without mentioning 2 of 14 again. That really is the lone data point you’re using for your entire conclusion. Laughable. You must be an Aggie troll. Or t-shirt fan maybe? My vote goes to the “no way in hell this guy was smart enough to actually go to UT” camp.

So by your own argument, you’re satisfied with the mediocrity of winning conference championships and don’t care about playing for national championships? In the last 7 seasons we have played in 2 national championship games and won 1 of them. Now tell me again how you define mediocrity? Oh wait wait wait, I know this one already. 2 of 14! 2 of 14! 2 of 14! 2 of 14! 2 of 14! 2 of 14! 2 of 14! 2 of 14! 2 of 14! 2 of 14! And one to grow on: 2 of 14! I think maybe now everyone will get it. Nah, they need to read it once more. 2 of 14! Jesus Christ you are dense!

Hey, uh, don’t the Longhorns play in a bowl game in less than 24 hours. Would be nice to have a thread to discuss that. (Not that I’m whining.)

2 of 14 is the only stat I need when one of the other 5 teams in our old division is 6 of the last 12. That’s 50% for you Andrew (do you really go by Andrew?). BTW, they also recently played for two NC’s and won one… AND they have a few 10-win seasons under their belt.

But we’re Texas!

OK, I’ve been pissed at Mack for years for keeping GDGD around, and finally reached the point I wanted Mack gone this last offseason. He didn’t go, and he hired a bunch of really good coaches who deserve a chance to turn things around. I would prefer they were under someone besides Mack but they aren’t, so it’s water under the bridge. That said, this is a silly argument against the conference championship crowd.

National Championships, BCS bowls and top 10 finishes are what the average fan focuses on these days. If you are in the National Championship or a BCS bowl, it really doesn’t matter if you won your conference. Your overall record and final ranking are much more important than whether you won your conference championship.

Clearly you have to see that the first step to National Championship games and BCS bowl games is almost always a conference championship. Alabama this year is the anomoly and not the norm. Look at the BCS bowl teams and NC game teams year after year and most are conference champions. Only 2 National Championship participants in the 14 or 15 years of the BCS era didn’t win their conference (Nebraska in 2001 and Alabama this year). To state that conference championships aren’t necessary to reach those games is technically true, but it makes the path a hell of a lot harder and less likely.

The point of the conference championship crowd (and I’ll include myself among them) is that if you aren’t getting conference championships you’re drastically reducing your BCS bowl games and National Championship appearances, which is what we really want.

Oh, and $5 million a year is obscene for the productivity we’ve gotten. Politically we can’t dock his pay, but if Mack had any shame he’d donate $1 million a year to a scholarship fund until he has us back to championship level. That ain’t happening either though, so c’est la vie.

With all the pieces we’ll have everywhere else on the field next year all I can do is hope that Harsin and Applewhite can make something manageable out of Ash or kick Mack in balls and tell him to get off his high horse and get a JUCO or transfer QB. We’ll see tomorrow night.

Well said NYB.

National Championships come from BCS appearances, BCS appearances usually come from conference championships, and for us, conference championships come from beating OU. Bob Stoops understands these metrics.

Long after the Texas-OU game most every year, Sooner fans have a hope of playing for all of the marbles. It sucks as a UT fan that our season is all but over after mid October most seasons, many times after a severe butt-kicking to add insult to injury. The much ballyhooed 10-win season is merely the way Mack makes lemonade out of the lemons Bob Stoops delivers most years.

The fact that this piece of shit of a thread is still going and nothing new has been posted here just kind of proves what i suspected since we heard about Inside Texas taking Jesus and Tipsy.
Looks like this place is going down quickly.
This is the exact same shit we have been yelling about since 97 except the addition of Stoops in 99.
Anyone that’s not tired of this discussion probably has the same fight with their wives or girlfriends over and over again.

Kafka, I will confess I have an enormous financial stake in the continuation of the Mack Brown regime. If he’s fired, I am ruined. You got me. Kudos for ferreting out the conspiracy.

Zzzzizzzzy, I also confess that you’re right: your standards are much higher than mine and any other “2 of 14” apologists. Yours just happen to be very narrow. If we win the next three Big 12 titles, will you bitch because Mack is only 5 of 17?

Sorry for the gap in coverage. I think there might have been a holiday recently. Which is why there’s a Holiday Bowl tonight!

A new post about something/anything is coming soon just so you don’t have to read zzzzzizzzzy cut and past the same worn out shit.

He/she is quickly becoming a candidate for the same habanero enema IP Ban that permanently severed HenryJames’ relationship with the Internet.

Haven’t the land thieves railed against Mack for years? Who would benefit more with his departure, particularly in the arena of recruiting? You got it!

Look at zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz’s posts and forget his Longhorn facade - now tell me he is not an OU homer!

Forget the twerps, that have hijacked this thread, and tell me why you think Peterson would be our best choice - should Mack retire?

He has coached, successfully, in the WAC. Oh, yeah, now there is a powerful conference. Didn’t we think the same of Fran when he was at TCU?

I’m confused. Have you been complaining since 1997 about Mack not bringing UT conference championships or about the declining quantity on this site?

You mean does he have the same amount of big time BCS conference coaching experience as Bob Stoops and Pete Carroll had? Or the same amount as Tommy Tuberville had?

bevovackside - I’m confused as well - did you throw your comment at me?

Interesting posts to say the least on many levels.

Andrew,

I don’t disagree with anything you wrote except your use of media bias and a bad tiebreaker system in conference. In 2001 with arguably Mack’s most talented team we lost to OU and still played in the CC game, but absolutely gagged an opportunity to face Miami in the NC game against Colorado. In 2004 we lost head to head to OU and ended up not playing for the CC based on this factor as it should be. It should also be noted that we were shut out that year by OU with VY and Benson in the same backfield. How does that happen? In 2006 with a veteran ballclub we lose to a better tOSU early but thoroughly whipped OU and have a commanding lead in the conference race only to lose to KSU and Aggy to end the season thus letting OU win the conference. I don’t quite buy the media bias with 2008. Yes, we won head to head vs. OU but there were 3 one loss teams overall and all had one loss in conference and had beaten each other. Had we employed the SEC tiebreaker system, TX most likely plays FL in NC. However, put the blame on the ADs, deloss included. We didn’t win the conference based on the rules we established. With that being said, had we not lost to Tech late we don’t have that problem but I’m not going to harp on the 2008 team which is quite possibly my favorite team of the MB era.

So by that count, we should have won 4 more CC and none of them had anything to do with media bias or a crappy tiebreaker system and had we done so we would have played for two if not 3 more NC. We all know Mack’s faults, but most of us know the good he has done too. But when speaking of the MB era I will remember the opportunity lost of a decade of dominance. He did win a NC and that in and of itself means more than plenty. I still would not take Miles over Brown, but anyone saying they wouldn’t take saban over brown is truly delusional. The next two years are very important for Brown and the TX program and I really like his staff. It will be interesting to watch because zzzzzzzz is right 2 of 14 is not quite good enough and this stat alone has prevented us from playing for more National titles.

40% of the teams in BCS bowls this year didn’t win their Conference. Several teams have played for NC’s without winning their conference. Conference championships are overrated. 6-6 UCLA played for a conference championship.
 
When reviewing or previewing a college football season, the media and fans always focus on how teams finished in the national rankings. Who finished in the top 10, who is projected to finish in the top 10 the next year.

When comparing coaches or teams winning percentage and national rankings are the barometer. So if you want to discuss Mack and compare him to other coaches over the last 14 years that is the metric. Don’t bring in some lame argument about that suggests a level of performance(conference championships) addr4ess something that directly indicates performance(W/L % & final rankings).

UCLA played for a CC because the divisional winner wasn’t eligible to play in it. Not a great example. 28 teams have appeared in the BCS Championship game, two of them didn’t win their own conference and one of those didn’t win the conference because they lost head to to head to the best team in the country and no other team in any other conference seized their opportunity. 2 of 28. What is that percentage? I would say its imperative to win your conference if you want to play for a national title.

Jake - I was agreeing with you sir and explaining why.

The argument isn’t whether it is important to win the conference chapionship to play for a national championship. The argument concerns how to properly judge the performance of a Coach. Some pitch the lame, irrational argument that it is conference championships. I say it is winning percentage and national rankings.Under that metric, Mack is a top 10 coach, no question.

Napoleon said (translated) “Strength is to esprit as one is to three.” My Dad pounded that one into me - his understanding of what Nappy meant was that the general who gets his guys pumped and ready to fight is three times more important than having the best uniforms, the straightest ranks, the biggest cannons, and the fastest horses.

It’s one of the paramount tasks of the successful general, to inculcate that esprit into his troops.

From my perspective, we - in the person of our Head Coach - have done an outstanding job of having those uniforms, straight lines, and fast horses. I think a lot of our cannons have been large and ornate, and often the envy of all when on parade, but many of them have failed to demnstrate superior firepower. It also appears that if the troops do not pump themselves up, or get pumped up by the adjutants, the required level of esprit is often lacking. Against lesser foes, it may not be necessary to have the fire in the belly, but when even near-equality of forces appears as part of the situation, unexpected losses result - or hoped-for victories elude us.

Napoleons are few and far between, and we do not have one leading our troops at this time. It is not particularly damning to make this point, and I am not suggesting that Chris Petersen (or anyone else, for that matter) is such, either - although it appears that Coach Petersen is perhaps a better judge of cannon quality and better at training and leading. No doubt there are others, perhaps even a budding young Darrell out there, and no doubt some of you will have a favorite or two.

As long as we’re content to win 9 or 10 of our annual 12 or 13 battles, we will have continuation of the status quo. These last two seasons, having failed to reach even that goal, have put a serious stress on Mack’s position.

Do we even have a goal in mind for our re-run of “Wait ’til NEXT year”? Some have suggested that we “should” win nine games next year… others, that the conference will be down so far that we may even win the title.

What to do? What’s our carrot, what’s our stick? Do we put a limit on how many years we go without achieving whatever goal we wish to set? Do we (continue to) allow for excuses (we would have won had the freshman not dropped the sure interception, our best players got hurt, et cetera)?

Maybe we should take the Five+ MegaBux, divide it by 12 and give Mack 450 KiloBux for each win, and a bonus (based on the payout) for a bowl win, another for a CC, and another for a NC? Maybe we should bonus the payers, too, since it appears that the most desirable ones are motivated mainly by their potential future NFL paydays. Worked for Auburn in 2010, dinnit?

What’s the bonus for the Dago Bowl, tonight?

That’s fine CD and I can accept your last statement as Mackovic won 2 CC but we consider his regime a massive failure besides recruiting a Heisman Trophy winner.

But you originally stated that CC are overrated and many teams have played for NC without winning their conference and I gave you evidence to the contrary. Winning CC are important at big time programs. In fact, most if not all coaches put winning the conference as the number one goal before a season starts. But you are correct, you must win a large % of games as well.

Good post TL.

Groundhog Day,

Thanks for bringing rational, thoughtful analysis to the conversation. I will agree that we all know Mack Brown’s faults. He is not perfect. There are things I would like him to do differently (although the new hires and changes in recruiting practices over the last year address a large number of those concerns).

One point I was trying to make is that it has come down to the bad luck of timing on so many of our seasons. We all know that it is better to lose early in the season with the way the BCS system works. So in 08, we beat OU early, but have the late loss to Tech. Both teams had one loss, but based on timing, we know how that one ends. There’s also been the timing from season to season. We win as many games as OU, but apparently with much worse timing. I’m going off of this statistic, for Bob Stoops’s 13 seasons at OU their conference record has been:

8-0: 3 times, with 2 conference championships
7-1: 2 times, with 2 conference championships
6-2: 5 times, with 3 conference championships

Mack Brown at Texas on the other hand has the following line:

8-0: 2 times, with 2 conference championships
7-1: 5 times, with 0 conference championships
6-2: 4 times, with 0 conference championships

Not to defend everything Mack Brown has ever done, but there’s some seriously bad luck with timing there. Bob Stoops at OU is 138-34 (80.2%) overall, Mack Brown at Texas is 140-39 (78.2%) overall. Mack Brown is 6-8 against OU. Before the implosion of the last 2 seasons (which don’t get me wrong, defininitely do count against the head man), we had a better winning percentage than OU and were dead even head to head against OU. We win as many games as OU, and are right around even head to head against them, and yet we have played in 4 conference championship games (with 2 wins) to their 8 (with 7 wins) over the last 14 years. At some point in a statistical analysis, outliers have to be considered. One statistic (albeit a pretty important one) does not a story tell.

Have there been squandered chances at a decade of dominance? Hi Greg Davis! Were 01 and 04 and possibly 06 (the injury argument could be brought up, but that’s part of the game) thorough choke jobs? Pretty much. But has Mack Brown done far more good than harm for the program? Most assuredly. Is the program headed in the right direction right now under Mack? Matter of opinion, but I would contend yes.

“A new post about something/anything is coming soon just so you don’t have to read zzzzzizzzzy cut and past the same worn out shit.”

I’m even sick of my repetition; but it is in response to the same repetitive arguments: “We are doing just fine with Mack… No improvements necessary if we can return to the magical 10-win season.” I guess if the repetition and magnitude with which Bob Stoops reminds of our place year after year doesn’t shame you, my posts here won’t either.

So what I’m saying is OU doesn’t win (appreciably) MORE games than us, but they win the RIGHT games (except bowl games, zing!). That’s not skill. Bob Stoops does not pick and choose which games in a given season his team is going to lose. That comes down to luck of when your particular losses fall.

“One point I was trying to make is that it has come down to the bad luck of timing on so many of our seasons.”

Bad luck of timing = scheduling OU

Of Stoops’ 7 CC, the sooners beat Texas in 5 of those years. OU lost to Tex in 06 but won the conference anway as documented above and we know the story of 08. Stoops also beat Texas in 01, 03, 11 but failed to win the conference in those years and neither did Texas. Texas had a chance in 01 and 02 despite losing to the sooners but late losses derailed CC. OU lost to KSU in the CC game in 03.

I distinctly remember OU taking on the likes of Oregon, Alabama, Florida State and Miami in non-conference matchups on a fairly regular basis. Those are tough games and wins in those types of games mean a hell of a lot more than beating Wyoming, Rice and Florida Atlantic. Not to say that we don’t occasionally schedule a home and home with Ohio State and Arkansas, but it seems like OU has a marquee non-conference matchup almost every year whereas we take one on every five years or so. I believe it is completely disingenuous to make the kinds of statistical arguments that appear in this thread without considering the teams that actually underlie the wins and losses.

Zzzizzzy said:
"One point I was trying to make is that it has come down to the bad luck of timing on so many of our seasons."

Bad luck of timing = scheduling OU

Andrew, I think this exchange pretty much defines the term “Casting your pearls before swine”…

and Felonious (love that handle, btw), there has really only been one year where that sort of schedule strength had any bearing at all. And in that one I would contend that the difference in schedule strength had miniscule effect compared to the coaching tree sewing circle effect. And that paled next to the effect of shiny “Wow, 60 points!!!” on uninformed, gullible and just plain bad voters…
In the end, using ‘08 as a knock on Mack’s coaching seems kind of petty, although in a lot of ways, it’s his unwillingness to bear grudges, act in ‘unclassy’ ways, and put Art Briles’ head on a pike as a sign to all that you do not want to piss off UT that made it safe to screw with us and put us 5th or 6th on a ballot.

My argument does not relate only to 2008. That was coach voting chicanery more than anything else. My argument regarding non-conference opponents is directed at comparing winning percentages across the respective tenures of Mack Brown and Bob Stoops to prove a point. Based on my observations of both teams’ non-conference schedules over this entire timeframe, I am confident in asserting that Stoops’ numbers at OU have been achieved against a significantly tougher schedule overall than Mack’s.

Look, we’ve got our “CEO” for at minimum one more year. If that is what is necessary to maintain continuity throughout the coaching staff, then I can live with it. However, I think it sends entirely the wrong message to extend Mack at this point and it is absolutely an inefficient application of athletic department money. I don’t give a damn if Mack is “having fun again” or “wants to be here forever and ever”. This move is an act of spite by Dodds - essentially a “fuck you” to those who had the temerity to discuss the possibility of Mack moving on sooner rather than later.

Since 1999 OU has played North Carolina, Notre Dame, Alabama (2), South Florida, TCU (2), UCLA (2), Oregon (2), Washington(2), Miami (2), FSU (2), BYU, Cincinnati

Since 1998 Tex has played UCLA (3), Stan(2), NC State, Rutgers, North Carolina (2), Arkansas(3), Ohio State (2), TCU, BYU.

You guys make the call.

The Bobs - "One point I was trying to make is that it has come down to the bad luck of timing on so many of our seasons.
Bad luck of timing = scheduling OU"

This comment pretty well confirms that he is an OU mole and homer.

“This comment pretty well confirms that he is an OU mole and homer.”

More ad hominem attacks. I dispise OU because of Switzer and Stoops. That’s why seeing us effectively eliminated from contention most years by this jackass is so nauseating.

BTW, go re-read some of the justifications y’all have been posting…

This place turns into Mack Brown Excuse Central when the facts are in play. Ad hominem attacks and “bad luck” apologetics are the flavor of the day.

zzzzzzzzzzzz - Sorry, you are busted, my friend. Nice try, however, with the ad hominem smokescreen. Ad hem, more aptly describes what I said about you!

Assigned reading for MB apologists:

http://college-football-coaches.findthedata.org/saved_search/Winningest-College-Football-Coaches

And how about these barely lucid remarks from yesterday…

http://www.burntorangenation.com/2011/12/28/2665872/mack-brown-im-going-to-be-here-for-a-long-time

Mack Brown: “With Will being 38, I thought Will could stay a long time and be a lifetime defensive coordinator at Texas and then take the head job. But none of us thought it would be two or three years.”

WTF? Are you serious? That sounds borderline senile in the modern era of football coaching. This sounds like something Bowden would say, or pre-scandal Paterno would say. Diaz and Major have to love seeing that comment. Earth to Mack: you will lose Diaz and Applewhite within 2-3 more years.

Mack Brown: “Last year, because we didn’t play well, and I didn’t think I did a good job. It’s the first time I’ve had to sit down and say, ‘What are we doing here? This isn’t what we want for Texas or for me or our staff or anybody else. What Sally and I decided was we are going to go back and give it our best shot for as long as we can do it, and make sure we give Texas our best.”

Uh, $5 million wasn’t enough for you to “give it your best shot” and “give Texas your best?” It took 7 losses to do that? This comment really pisses me off, and is the one comment of his that reveals A LOT, along with this last one….

Mack Brown: “Right now, I’m just having fun. Sitting here at 60, I feel healthy and feel great. I love this staff. I’ve really enjoyed this team with as weird as it’s been. And obviously not what we want with numbers on the field (in terms of wins). But I’ve never felt better with where we are off the field. We’re making more progress, in my estimation, than what we’re seeing in numbers.”

Wow. I’m done. Having fun? Sitting at 60 with an extension thru age 68? All “I feel” “I feel” “I love” “I’ve enjoyed” “I’m having fun” ’I’ve never felt better" Folks, welcome to eternal mediocrity. We’re back in Mackovic land. Sit back and enjoy it. We’re going to dig a huge hole in the next ten years. And save your comments about our great assistants. They ARE great——and they’ll be gone shortly.

And save your comments about our great assistants. They ARE great—-and they’ll be gone shortly.

And who hired them in the first place?

Oftentimes the active internet segment of our fanbase can get lost in the day to day minutia and lose perspective on the big picture. This thread is an example of that what with all of the tortured statistical back and forth and whatnot.

Wifey watched the game with me last night and did a great job staying engaged in my running commentary for the first half before she had to put the kids to bed - she was a captive audience. When I went into why I was disappointed with Mack and so on and so forth and started hitting her with all of the specific reasoning she listened intently and then replied that in her opinion Mack was a “touchy-feely twat” and that was the fundamental overriding issue separating Texas from the truly elite echelon of programs.

She could not have been more right IMO. As Bob Dylan said, “You don’t have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing.” All of the narcissistic commentary in the linked article about “feelings” and “having fun again” is a prime case in point.

Also, when Mack asserts that he is “going to be here for a long time”, to me it comes across more as a defiant threat to Longhorn fandom more than anything else. Does anyone else feel that way?

Fuck this fucking extension talk!