Longhorn Starting QB 2011: Picking Your Horse From Ash, McCoy, Gilbert  Wood

The Mack Brown way is what we will see. It is both politically correct and pragmatic, and it allows for the “Game of Thrones” coup to take place with minimal bloodshed. Well done!

Would the three QBs transfer before school starts or woould they wait until the off season?

Flav and Pippa? Man, that WOULD be surprising.

Roy -
 
Agreed. Secure the palace guard, put pikes in the loyalists, and put the young blonde king on the throne.
 
BEW -
 
Most likely Spring. You want the season to play out in case of injury or Ash explosion. As i write, being the #2 guy to Ash is appealing so you want the other guys to play their hands first.
 
huge -
 
Yes, Pippa doesn’t have a chance.

Boise doesn’t ask him to throw 15 yard outs – a true test of arm strength – as they know it’s a pick six in waiting.

Truer words were never spoken.

My theory on the QB question is that if we can run the football, every single one of our QB’s will be adequate, if we can’t then 5-7 is a distinct possibility. I wouldn’t mind seeing someone elevated above Gilbert for the first 2-3 games just to see if it can kick start him or if it turns him into a worthless pile of goo. Either way, Texas learns something and we can move forward. It would also give one of the other QB’s a bit of game experience prior to the start of the Conference schedule. I don’t see this as a MNC type of year, so we have a game or two to give.

SinApple sounds like something Tywin Lannister would conjure. Well done Scipio the Elder.

Gilbert’s career on the 40 rides on his next performance. That’s got to be eating him up daily. While I’d like to believe he shines Friday, I don’t think it’s not likely.

He’s going to force Mack’s hand to Case’s benefit. I also don’t see Gilbert transferring either unless prodded by Dad.

Ash could make this all a moot point by lighting it up again. Here’s hoping.

Penelope Cruz was vacationing with me in Kauai last year. Her excuse was she was filming Pirates of the Caribbean with that Depp looser.

Truth be told, I’ve seen hotter on campus, and that ain’t no joke.

I just hope it doesn’t take an early season loss to catalyze the coup.

roach -
 
We can’t run the football unless our QB will make the basic throws required. I’m pretty certain of this. There’s obviously a reciprocal interplay here.
 
Good point on the game or two to give, but I don’t know how philosophical our fans will be when the rubber hits the road.
 
Kauai is my favorite island and one of my all-time favorite places on the planet. I know Hawaii really well and I like to send the hoopleheads to Maui so I can keep Kauai and the Big Island to myself.

How does this calculus change if Scrimmage #2 on Friday proceeds in the same fashion as Scrimmage #1, i.e., Ash >>McCoy>Wood>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gilbert?

Then you’re looking at one more scrimmage and a handful of practices until it’s go time. Mack has gone on about how this is Harsin’s choice, that he’s been charting every pass, and that this will be an objective decision on who gives us the best chance to win. How do you square that with the results on the field? At what point do you stop asking when the light will come on, and just reside yourself to the fact that there was never a light in the first place?

Nice analysis.

Grape Nehi and Ash for me. Gilbert’s play effects the entire team, including defense.

Was looking forward to your Bill Byrne blog, but Fake Ken did a nice job.

Mad Clapper -
 
That’s a great question. Although I’d disagree that McCoy shined in scrimmage #1. I’ll just say our sources aren’t operating off of an agenda, they have actual eyes on the throws being made, and they’re able to understand the qualitative difference between a jump ball lucky duck and a 15 yard post thrown on a line through a tight window.
 
However, Case brings mental aspects to the game that can never be discounted. He sees where the candy is. But what happens when he’s throwing against cohesive college defenses designed to exploit his physical make-up?
 
Back to your point, the coaches badly want separation and I think they’re done rigging the contest to create it. To put it nicely, the Spring game was set up to anoint Gilbert and McCoy as #1 and #2. David Ash had other ideas this summer and our young OCs are pushing for a real honest-to-God horse race. Mack, to his credit, has signed off on it.

I’m not sure the Darius White throw is indicative of anything on Case other than bad mechanics. That’s a Dirk fade away if I’ve ever seen one. Given that a QB is often coached to throw to the receivers back shoulder in that situation it might have been an intentional under throw.

I get that Case doesn’t have a supper strong arm, but that play doesn’t really illustrate it for me at least, and like you say the 15 yard out is very overrated for a college QB. He can get the ball down the field just fine. I’ll take accuracy and judgment any day over arm strength.

Right now I would give Case a shot to start the year. Hope Gilbert can come back from some time on the bench with his head on straight.

Ash may be the best QB on the roster, but I’m loath to give that kind of responsibility to a true freshman, not the least of which because as you say, next year, when we could be in a position to make a run, we could have one QB and a true freshman back up.

Mack is going to need his Obi Wan Kenobi mind tricks AND his Vulcan mind Probe to pull this off successfully.

Make Ash #1, turn the rest into water boys. If he goes down, Tweeter will take the snaps.

Here’s hoping that Ash proves to be the truth and just cannot be kept off the field. Get him in the system and humming quickly so that when all the other blue chippers start rolling up, we don’t have the growing pains we’re going through now.

(All that said, I think Gilbert 1, McCoy 2, Ash special package makes the most sense)

You are right about GG having mind fucked himself badly. But how is he going to undo that? You could put him in therapy for a year, maybe undo it and perhaps he would be better but will he find the open receiver? So we are supposed to play him until he screws up and then pull him? Does he have to lose the game? Go 3 series without a 1st down? Have 2 interceptions?

I don’t think all 3 would leave if Ash was QB. If they did I’d as soon see Mykele Thompson play backup as watch us go down in flames to prove GG isn’t going to make it. Maybe Shead? Whatever. I say let the best man be QB. Give him all the experience we can this year and let the chips fall where they may. No one expects perfection this year but, if we are looking for it, the search begins with Ash.

Flaaavvvvvaaaaa Fllllaaaavvveee!

Harsin should just smack MB and say, “You had to fire your friend b/c things got so bad last year, now you’re going to play footsies with a qb who can’t use his experience to beat out guys who have never seen the field or another just cuz his brother played here?”

Whatever snake venom was flowing through Mack to enable him to finally dump the dead wood he had accumulated around him on the coaching staff needs to come back during the qb decision. Whoever it is needs to be based on an icy cold evaluation of performance, not only glitter, unicorns and not wanting to hurt feelings.

Mack has always worried to much about destroying confidence, and never enough about seeing if players will bounce back from adversity. Truly, I would let SinApple decide who they want to run their offense, as they have the greatest understanding of how it works and what’s needed. Plus, he owes Major big time for not playing him when Simms was having an off game.

I’ve always been in favor of calling them Majorsin.

MajorSin is strong.
 
We may have to conduct a readers poll.

I agree (with Brad McCoy) that Case should have been given serious playing time last season, especially after mid season when Garrett’s chronic interceptionitis became apparent. It was almost criminal, IMO, to burn Case’s shirt yet not give him opportunities to play more.

Scipio seems to have nailed it in regards to the team/parent/player politics that will take place before any new successor is firmly established. Nothing personal against any player, but I kind of wish Wood would consider transferring before the season starts, so as to simplify the calculus for the coaches and our other 3 gunslingers.

This would be a lot like the SF 49ers QB plight, except Ash’s role is that of a healthy and young Daunte Culpepper (ok, that’s a little over the top), with Gilbert being Alex Smith and Wood as Colin Kaepernick.

If Ash truly is as athletic as some of Jesus’ reports seem to intimate, then there’s no way he doesn’t see the field, and if he is seeing the field it’s with the intent of being the starter should Gilbert falter. I don’t think Gilbert should falter (that would make the football bad), but there’s a chance he might.

I’ve got a feeling that the package of plays that Ash has is more passing intensive than we would expect out of a true Freshman, and if so that would seem to legitimize the 3rd to 1st intentions of the staff.

If Ash looks good against Rice and UCLA, it wouldn’t shock me if his playing time was upped and Gilbert got two series two Ash’s one.

After that of course comes the old, “well, we’re just going to go with whoever has the hot hand.”

1966 and the Horns are televised against highly ranked USC, and I HAVE to watch because Bill Bradley, everyone promises, will take us back to the promised land. We lose a heartbreaker, but a Trojan lineman who gets in Bradley’s face on the sideline at the end of a play swiftly ends up on his ass, and I’m liking what I’m seeing.

Fast forward to 68 and the Bradley wonder years have not materialized. I’m a soph in the stands now, including at the Tech game when Bradley gets benched in favor of unheralded junior James Street, who seemed to have only two things going for him—he was cool under fire and he was one deceptive son of a bitch running the Wishbone.

My advice then, Brown, Harsin and Applewhite sit down with Royal and let him decide.

Good stuff, Scip. Thanks.

Nit: no “e” in judgment (unless BC has decided to mine the clicks of the silent anglophile majority).

If you write "judgement" you should also write "colour."

(Fingers crossed that my first hyperlink worked.)

BTW, that should be Hars-Apple or maybe S’napple but not MajorSin.

This fits well with JTT’s article on third stage of Mack’s tenure at Texas. The starting QB decision will define Mack going forward. I do think he’ll take the politically cautious route that leaves him some options but I expect to see a short leash for whoever is under center. Last season was Mack’s mulligan and he can’t afford to keep his hands on his knees on the sideline while his QB throws three to five picks.

I understand the psychology and the need to keep 3 QBs on the roster, but I don’t see starting Gilbert as the answer. Honestly, if I got to choose one QB out of the four to transfer, it would be GG. He’s just that fucking bad.

My solution would be to cut our losses with Gilbert entirely. Start McCoy to begin the season, with Wood #2 and Ash in situational packages. If Ash excels, he pushes McCoy down to T2 with Wood, and those two stick around to fight for the chance to take over the program’s reigns should Ash get hurt.

Any demotion to Gilbert will send him packing. And demoting Gilbert not only gives the program its best chance at a special 2012-2013 run but will also, I believe, become unavoidable after our first couple of tests. Why risk losing one of the other QBs by starting Gilbert early on, simply because Garrett is a marginally better option? Start building for the future with the brightest star (Ash) in a way that encourages Wood and McCoy to stick around and that, as an extra bonus, puts a two-year cushion between Ash and Brewer.

Well done. Nice piece.

I’m already weary of David Ash, Internet All Pro.

I saw Gilbert play a lot of HS games. It’s going to take more than one season in an inept offense to convince me he isn’t an adequate college quarterback. Your analysis of his mentality is troubling, if true.

Unrelated, but related question: Apparently folks love the HarsinWhite nickname….is the Co-OC’ness that the name implies actually true? Harsin is young’ish. Applewhite is beloved by the faithful. Is the title handling an accurate description of responsibilities, or was it a way to justify a raise to Major while CYA’ing for hiring a young OC?

Glad I’m not the only one who is old enough to remember the majesty that was James Street running the option. He has always been my favorite UT QB until the days of VY and Colt. VY and Colt are the truth, my friend. But,still, Street was majical out there

Gilbert will turn it over based on lack of field perception and slow processing speeds

“Slow processing speeds” is now on my list of favorite euphemisms.

Excellent post Scipio, What troubles me is that the Mack psychology is potentially going to divide the locker room and/or give some of the 2012 outlying scholly kids second thoughts. Mack really should leave the decision up to SinApple (sorry but HarsinWhite sounds like a two headed death beast…more wicked!) as to who the 2 QBs are. I’d definitely say, to save face, make (gulp) Case the started and Ash the back-up with a package of special plays. This way Wood can transfer and GG can figure out is TX St can be his proving ground. I’d really wish the Mackcology would grow a pair and name Ash the starter…of course, if he remains consistent throughout the remaining scrimmages.

I can dream can’t I?!?!?

Until Wood shows he can throw accurately he’s not in the mix.
Opening day depth chart is one of five:
1. The Politically Safe chart is #1. Gilbert #2 McCoy (Don’t rock the boat).
2. The Fair Play chart is #1 McCoy #2 Gilbert (He’s earned a chance having been screwed last year).
3. The Rebuilding chart is #1 McCoy #2 Ash (Give McCoy his shot, with boy wonder in waiting).
4. The Sin-Apple QB-in-motion chart #1 Gilbert (Unless/until he chokes) #2 McCoy #3 Special package Ash-man.
5. The Damn the torpedos! Full steam ahead! chart is #1 Ash #2 McCoy

“QB-caused interceptions bubble up from three primary wellsprings: lack of accuracy, lack of arm strength, and lack of judgement.”

What category do balls tipped at the line because you telegraph where you are throwing and dip your front shoulder a hellacious amount not to mention having a super slow windup fall into?

No need to be insulting — a fairer characterization would be “manly torrent.”

By this I assume you mean not just that Ash would sit the Iron Throne, but also

(a) Greg Davis would be decapitated
(b) Patrick Nkwopara would make clever remarks from behind eyes of different colors
© Rachel McCoy would bear her brother’s secret bastards.

It was almost criminal, IMO, to burn Case’s shirt yet not give him opportunities to play more.

Dunno about criminal, but it damn sure was dumber than shit.

The problem is, that buck stops on Mack’s desk, and he’s still here.

Man, I can’t help it, that worries me. Probably more than having Maddog still here.

Speaking of Maddog, what have we heard about a rerun (hopefully not a sequel) of Cleve Bryant and the Pecker of Doom?

The problem I have with the play Gilbert/McCoy scenario until they “play themselves out” of the position is what defines “play themselves out”.

Past experience says it’s until we drop a game. If it’s based on a bad quarter or maybe a half then I might be OK, but waiting until one of them has lost us a game when the best QB was on the bench just doesn’t cut it for me.

The object of all of this is to win games. If we wait until one of these guys loses one how shitty will we feel if Ash comes in and don’t drop another game. You telling me nobody’s going to be saying “if only”? It may not be a likely scenario, but given the talent and the potential of the new scheme it’s not completely ridiculous either.

The idea of ever being willing to just throw away a game in order to play it safe is something I find reprehensible. How is that fair to all the other guys on the team?

All of that assumes of course that Ash still looks like the best QB when the season starts, ahd we aren’t there yet with a couple more weeks of practices and scrimmages to go.

I said I said -

In my view, there are three primary goals to keep in mind in determining the QB depth chart: (1) Win in 2011, (2) Set up the team for a run in 2012-2014, (3) Keep 3 QBs on the roster heading into 2012.

Of your five choices, only two (nos. 1 and 4) do not, on their face, virtually guarantee the transfer of two QBs. Unfortunately, both assign Gilbert the #1 spot to start the season. Because of goals (1) and (2), I believe that Gilbert-as-starter is an unstable situation.

Playing out the scenario, and assuming the coaches actually care more about (1) and (2) than Gilbert’s feelings, I think he gets benched early. But he will be #2 on the depth chart. That all but guarantees that he’s gone after the year, along with (probably) Connor Wood. Essentially, then, all five of your scenarios result in a 2012 season with 2 QBs on the roster plus Brewer (who I would prefer to see redshirted).

I think the best way to prevent a 2 QB exodus is to give both McCoy and Wood a real belief that they are fighting for the #2 spot while allowing Ash to take over the clear #1 spot. That means benching Gilbert, announcing Case as your starter and playing Ash early and often as a “situational” QB. I think he’ll outshine Case, and take over the top spot within a few games. Then rearrange the depth chart to put Case and Connor in the old “and/or” second-team spot and VOILA! you’ve just successfully kept 3 QBs on the roster while priming the team for long-term success.

As an additional bonus, Mack gets to show recruits and young players that his decisions are based on proven merit, not high school accolades. Not only does that appeal to the players’ fundamental sense of fairness, but it can be a powerful motivational tool.

“Next, the persistent notion that Case McCoy would never transfer or his camp would never protest a relegation to career back-up is a Brett Favre late-in-a-playoff-game-read on a deep option route followed by a Croc-wearing texting of your junk to a fake-titted sideline reporter sort of judgement.”—- perhaps one of the cleverest observations enter conceived. Great piece. No one in the Big VII world can write like that.

I have this theory about John Snow and Lyanna Stark.

It’s about as definitive as our QB situation, which is problematic since two books are yet to be written. Gilbert Garrett serving as a servicable starter with David Ash as backup is probably your best outcome, outside of a star emergence of any variety, as it primes Ash to take away the job next year and Gives you some separation from Conner Brewer if he takes a redshirt.

I also think BRan may ride a dragon some day, and I’ve only read three of the books, so there you go.

I’m in the middle of the second book. Don’t spoil it.

I’m annoyed you threw out the middleton/FF/PC post because I had something similar written and just deleted it last night.

Oh yes, Mack Brown will just pull the plug on GG, alienate the McCoys and put a true freshman on the biggest stage in CFB (well one of them) because he’s been playng well in practice (we talkin about practice?)

Yes that will happen.

“Good afternoon, we have some depth chart changes. David Ash will be the starter vs Rice”.

very good article. thoughtful and provocative.

kafka and nobis have posited a working model much like yours, wherein ash is given time to adjust and develop without dumping the load on him. his workload could be a function of how much playbook he has mastered and how he has responded. i think that sounds very workable, but the starter has to be able to tote the mail.

Another question for the crew: What do you think

A) Harsin wants to do?
B) Major wants to do?

If they could get their respective wishes without any comment from Mack.

Scipio: Intelligent, reasoned and thorough review. You ask for opinions; a few:

1. Ash’s coronation will not result in three transfers. Maybe not two. Unless he gets hosed again, McCoy stays. Like you said, he believes he’s the best QB, that he ought to start. And he’ll stay around to make that happen. When Gilbert takes his first snap, he’s a senior (should he opt to transfer). Not saying he wouldn’t head out come December, but he’d have to sit out 2012 unless Sam Houston State is his destination.

2. Mack will start Gilbert in the opener and keep starting him until (1) we lose and it’s the QB’s fault; (2) he gets hurt; (3) one of the other QBs rallies us to a win — and wins over the team in the most important way there is.

3. McCoy is Plan B. Maybe he gets meaningful snaps, but that’s not the way it usually works under Mack Brown. Plan B is Sherrod Harris or Matt Nordgren. If GG stinks it up, McCoy probably gets the call.

4. Mack would be wrong to give Harsin the power to pick the starting QB. (I don’t think Mack will do that.) I love what Harsin has done, I love what he seems to have the potential to do. At this point, though, he has no skins on OUR wall. He’s a first-year OC, and if Mack passively accepts Harsin’s advice and then Harsin’s QB picks blows up, it’s Mack who has to answer to DeLoss and the Big Wallets in the Pricy Suites.

Brickhorn-
If you believe that Gilbert as a starter gets benched early then yes making him numero uno does create an unstable situation by definition. ( i’m with you on this one given what he has shown so far)
If you believe that McCoy and Wood could both believe that they are second string and that both would be content believing that then yes you might keep them both. However, playing three QBs can be tricky and playing any less might indicate at least to either Wood or McCoy that he wasn’t really second string. Additionally, if Ash plays well they still might all choose to move on to greener pastures. (see Scip’s assertiion about McCoy not staying on the farm.)

I dunno. All the teeth-gnashing over QBs is making me a little ill.

My sense of the offense per LHS’ posts is that the key goal of the HarsinWhite offense is to keep the other side off-balance and guessing. Problem is, the book’s written on each QB, at least for game one – GG can be rattled and hesitant, Case has an arm made of overcooked linguini, Ash is inexperienced and untested. So whatever plays we run in whatever order, the opposing coaches will know what they want to do on passing downs depending on the signal-caller – hit the QB, cover tight, and play mind games, respectively.

Ideally you’d implement one system with a QB that can handle it all, with maybe a special package as a change-up, but are we there yet? Not really. Given that reality, it’d make sense to me to put together basically three different packages, fitting the strengths of each quarterback, and try all of them over the course of the first game. See who can transcend his rep the most when the chips are real money. Then give that guy more snaps against BYU, and expand that package.

Question for the community is: why do we want to anoint anyone now, given that no one with experience has grabbed the mantle? As much as we’d like to have a clear starter by game one, do we want to risk having the best QB on the bench because he’s not showing it in August?

I am expecting Gilbert to be the starter for the first few games.
If he is serviceable, he will continue in that role unless/until he
encounters serious problems in performance, particularly against a certain
conference foe.
Ash will be “special situation/changeup QB.” If he demonstrates
truly exceptional (VYesque/Coltish) ability ingame, he will be poised to be elevated
to No. 1, if necessary.
Wood will see only mop up duty, but with real play calls to see how he handles it.
Case will get more time than Wood, but still only after the game’s out of reach.

How about Harwhite or MajorSin? Like your columns, enjoy your comments but not feeling SinApple.

Man, were my comments ever late.

IMHO, anything with “Sin” in it sounds like a sex toy. I like HarsinWhite.

edsp-
If Scip turned out to be correct would you be willing to risk losing McCoy, Gilbert and Wood.
Wood might leave due to zero playing time.
Gilbert might leave believing his bridges have been burned and little chance for redemption.
McCoy might leave because he got shafted last year and then beat out by a freshman this year.

Dagga Roosta-
I like your plan to play ’em all early and see who can perform. Theoretically it all sounds good. Why anoint in August? The other side is less snaps with the first string in practice and players divided over who should be their fearless leader. Plus fans and media harping on who will be number one.

My guess is that unless he flames out spectacularly during the remaning fall camp it will be Gilbert to start with. With a new offense and better play calling Gilbert should be servicable, (we hope). BYU and UCLA should be good tests to judge if Gilbert has improved any. If he hasn’t then I can see Ash taking over by midseason. The other two are backups who just don’t have the upside that Ash seems to present. Wood probably will stay but I bet McCoy will transfer after the season, probably to a FCS school so he can play right away.

By the way how does Connor Brewer fit into this? If Ash is the guy and appears to be a 4-year starter does that affect Brewer’s decision-making? Or is he solid as a commit?

Oh and I would vote for the original HarsinWhite, with MajorSin as an close 2nd

Bateshorn:
mind=blown

what’s the difference between Case and McElroy? The bootleg toss was awful since the receiver had to adjust but if it’s a quick read or short dropback, Case is alright. Just kind of needs a West Coast style offense and to find the single man coverage. If he doesn’t do it for Texas, I hope he doesn’t lose an opportunity to play elsewhere. Kinne has been fun to watch.

I’m skeptical of the hype on Ash, if for no other reason than even greater level of hype surrounding Gilbert two years ago.

My two best bets are that either (1) Gilbert uneffs himself and gets right with football, or (2) McCoy shows why guys like Dinwiddie, Zabransky, and Moore were able to run the BSU offense spectacularly.

If you haven’t, check out Case’s cut-up above. As Scip notes, he does a good job on several throws of quickly understanding who is going to have an open window based on the defense’s alignment and whether the corner is choosing inside or outside leverage.

His TD is a very pretty ball, hitting a receiver in a fairly tight window with a solid amount of zip on the throw.

It’s also the only throw in the entire sequence that he steps into.

His body is moving away from his throw almost every time – not only on his famous duck to White, but even on his first two quick slants. He damn near doesn’t step into the throw while moving forward on his bootleg, which I would hardly have believed possible.

If you’re already working with an arm strength deficit it is bad, bad juju if you consistently fail to step into your throws. No idea what’s going on there – I find it hard to believe that his technique is consistently that poor or that he hasn’t been schooled in the proper mechanics and how to step through a throw and I don’t want to say he’s scared of getting popped but something ain’t right.

You can’t play all 4. Or 3, really.
 
And it’s possible to differentiate ability without playing every candidate in games. Unless you’d like to extend that logic to walk-ons and our #4 FB.
 
You have to game prep for specific opponents and you need to develop timing with a group of receivers and running backs. First team snaps are a limited commodity and you can’t cut up boarding house pie four ways.
 
The coaches will pick two and it will happen in ten days. It won’t be so much who they pick as who they are able to eliminate.

yeah boyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

I am partial to Applesin or Harwhite. Sounds like a pair of musketeers.

If all throws, mistakes, butt cheek slaps are being charted/tracked, lets see the real and “unfiltered” charts after they make their (his-Brown) decision. This may tell us of any undue influence…or influence for that matter.

GG hasnt improved his execution, if 500 live game reps (5-7) doesnt help you improve. I dont know what will, that dog dont hunt. It has been a 3 step drop, eyes fixated on the reciever to be picked off by the D, as he squints.

Macks loyalty card = Kstate game 2010.

Similarities with the NFL background here (Simms-Gilbert). Any pressure from the fam to keep GG on the field being channeled to Mack?

Mini McCoy needs creatine and a summer of baseball to improve the pitch (Weeden lessons). The kid has heart. And the Spring Game did give hope of possible live game situations?

I would place McCoy or Ash at the top, followed by Ash or McCoy then Gilbert.

 I really dont want to see anyone transfer, but I dont see ALL OF THEM playing. Wont happen. I feel bad for Connor. I would like to see Connor transfer. Let the kid play where he can and get the best shot, NFL shot. He deserves it unless he beats everyone else out for this spot.

How bout Haplesinite? Sounds like an evil cartoon term…“the Longhorn offense takes the field and delivers a lethal dose of Haplesinite on the Sooners…as Bob Stoops skin starts to boil!”

What happens if Ash becomes the blatantly obvious frontrunner in the next two weeks of practice/scrimmage?

Malcolm Brown sighting in latest practice pics. Pic 12:

http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/view.gal?id=99573

I agree Scip cutting up the first string snaps 3 or four ways won’t work. I do remember back in 1998 when Richard Walton was the first string QB and they told Applewhite and Greg Cicero that they were both second string because the coaches couldn’t decide who was better.

Best thing for Texas is GG starts and goes for 400 vs Rice. I think his reads are becoming slower because he is questioning himself. Only way to fix that is to have great game. I saw the spring game and was completely underwhelmed by McCoy. I thought Wood looked better in limited action, but I don’t see practices. GG is the default starter. Hopefully, he can find some confidence. If Ash is the truth I just hope Mack has spirit to have a quick hook.

I think we’re there.

“I think we’re there” was a response to phd

OLD TIME HORN-

Thanks for the Bill Bradley/James Street story, that was a big moment in Longhorn history. Street led Texas to 20 wins in a row and a National Championship.

Bradley was a fantastic athlete who went on to be an All Pro safety. I think he lead the NFL in interceptions a couple of years. He was also a great punter and punted in the NFL I was lucky enough to talk with Coach Mike Campbell at my work back in the late 80s and Coach told me Bradley was the best athlete he ever coached. I

I will never forget the 68 Aggie game. The Ags were led by Ed Hargett, who I believed played in the pros and later served in Congress. Hargett had gone something like 180 passes without an interception. Bradley picked 4 in the first halfin a Texas romp .

I’d be more psyched about giving GG’s short underneath stuff to build his confidence but I’ve seen him underthrow, overthrow and just generally screw up basic screens. I like Case in the quick slant or outside routes and I’m sure he can nail screens or dump offs but that doesn’t separate him from Ash. And as mentioned above, Case has a good read on the corners. I’d also like to see a few more qb highlights showing more QB/TE connections.

It feels late, but it’s still earlier in the QB race. Lots of practice, scrimmage, and OOC games to go on this one. I don’t think much has changed except Ash is better than we thought when the spring began and Gilbert is unfortunately looking like he is not the answer. We will find out over the next two weeks if Case has the arm strength, if Connor can find some accuracy, if Ash will fold under pressure, and if Gilbert will continue his bad luck. Man I wish the best for that kid. If I were the coaches, I would put Case in positions to fight through or overcome his weakness. And with Connor I would do the same with his accuracy, and see the results after another week or two.

Most likely we will start Gilbert until he shows he just can’t do it this year, or another QB blows him out of the water. Since Ash is coming on strong, but a frosh, it’s unfortunately not going to be settled by Wednesday. Yes, you want your top two getting the reps as early as possible. We just don’t have that luxury quite yet.

The devil in me wants to name our offense the Major Sin offense

“Best thing for Texas is GG starts and goes for 400 vs Rice. I think his reads are becoming slower because he is questioning himself. Only way to fix that is to have great game.”

That’s why the Horns schedule Rice in the opening slot. Getting guys to trust their instincts is difficult, especially after an entire season of miscues. Here’s to hoping GG can maintain a short memory and find a rhythm early.

my Dad has been lobbying for me to coin the phrase SinApple

I’m partial to “Brijor Applesin.” Icelandic folk hero, imo.

“Right now Gilbert is a guy that things happen to. He needs to be the player that make things happen.”

This single edict is the basis of what separates people who drift through life and people who find success. My life changed instantly when I realized this. I wish more people got it. Then maybe we wouldn’t have to listen to people whine about “The Man” holding them down.

I should add that becoming a “make it happen” type of person is a process when you’ve been a “let things happen to me and hope for the best” type of person for a while. It’s a transition, but good things start to happen once that light clicks on. I hope for Gilbert that it clicks and the process accelerates rapidly.

Nice piece, by the way.

I opined that Case might stay on another thread. Sniff. And I still think he might. So there.

Whatever the order today, the one who stands to gain the most from having the rest of the month to practice is Ash. If his progress and consistency continue at this rate, we could be in a different place come September. I recall reading that for BYU’s early enrollee QB Jake Heaps, it didn’t become apparent to the staff that they had a frosh vying for starters minutes until halfway through fall practice, which roughly corresponds to this week for early enrollee Ash. Heaps went on to smash BYU freshman passing records last year. The next couple of weeks bear close watching.

I know we all want to keep the focus on this season, but to me, the selection at quarterback is as much about 2012 as it is 2011. For argument’s sake, let’s say Wood isn’t a legitimate option at this point and that it is down to Gilbert, McCoy, and Ash. For the variety of disparate but largely equal weaknesses each brings to the table this season, there isn’t going to be much difference in our win potential no matter who wins. But there does appear to be a major differentiation when we spin the clock forward a year, provided Ash gets his baptism by fire out of the way this season. In other words, the best 2012 outcome is most likely dependent upon Ash getting the job this year, even if he isn’t clearly ahead of the other two right now. If that costs us two or three guys who won’t make an impact on the program, well…OK.

Just wait till Book 3. Mindblowing.

Manny Diaz is wearing a wide-brimmed straw hat to protect himself from the damaging effects of the sun’s rays.

I also wear a wide-brimmed hat to protect myself from the sun’s rays.

Therefore, Manny is cool.

Hook ’em!

Oh yeah, Gilbert will start, McCoy is likely second string, and Ash will definitely play with a special ‘WildAsh’ package. McCoy will be the first off the bench if Gilbert falters while Ash gains experience, learns the playbook, and learns how to avoid the manly torrent.

There is a problem of throwing kids into the fire. You can destroy them. NFL is littered with talented QB flops that started to early or lost it after being behind incompetent lines. We have our own version now. Throw Ash in there with a subject line and he could be the next headcase. If you are worrying about the future you have to consider that. You have experience lacking confidence and a baby being a practice hero. Brutal call.t

Scipio: Are you an Ash man?

Random thoughts regarding selecting the starting QB….

Either one of the four beats Rice. Success against Rice doesn’t really tell us anything. Lack of success against Rice would tell us something.
If the starting QB question is still open for Rice, the Rice game is about game reps.

If “…the purpose of all of this motion, deception, and initiative granted to individual player route adjustment is precisely so you can have a wide open skill athlete running down the seam waving his hand feverishly.” then that could work to the benefit of Gilbert being a one-eyed QB.

We’ll probably need to score points (35+) to beat BYU.
If our Defense holds BYU under 20, that would have a significant effect on the QB question.
If our rushing game is capable of producing 200 yds per game, that would have an effect on the QB question, but the first two opponents on the schedule don’t provide enough of a test to have confidence in the answer to the rushing game question.

If you’re going to start a Freshman QB, or give him significant playing time, you need to be prepared for opposing Defenses throwing everything but the kitchen sink at him in terms of blitzes. You need a solid OL and FB to help him deal with that.

One scenario that might work to resolve the Gilbert “mind-fuck” issue would be for him to come off the bench and engineer a come-from-behind victory over BYU or UCLA.

If Gilbert starts against Rice and is pulled, his career at Texas is over. If he’s pulled later in the year, the season is probably over.

Any way you look at, success this year will depend on a very good Defense. An Offense with a good, consistent rushing attack will benefit the Defense.

Ultimately, the play of the OL leads to most of the answers to most of the questions.

If winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing.
And if winning cures all problems, the only question that matters is which QB most helps us win.
It doesn’t matter if that QB is a Freshman.
If we’re winning with a Freshman, does it really matter who transfers? Let the quitters quit.
Having said that, I hope the Junior beats out the Freshman. If the Freshman beats out the Junior, start the Freshman and don’t look back.

I think starting McCoy would be the smart thing to do. If we had a Todd Reesing, Chase Daniel, Major Applewhite, etc type we win many more games last year and I don’t completely hate the sport of football. A player like that is never going to win you over in practice. If McCoy can’t even be that type of player, then we can see if Ash is ready.

Gilbert can be a useful option as a true backup QB (ie: injury replacement) as he has real game experience and hopefully competence in the system. However he was robotic, innacurate, and a horrible decision maker last year. I think his top upside (let’s say senior year Jonathan Crompton) is still significantly worse than any starting QB in the Mack Brown era. Why waste our time with him as the starter again?

If guys transfer that you feel are never going to help you win, who really cares? I really don’t understand the hand wringing.

GG doesn’t seem to enjoy the spotlight or the pressure, maybe backup suits him like it did his dad? There’s nothing wrong with that.

I say start Ash if we really believe he’s better. He is going to be the starter next year anyway. Get a year seperation between him and Brewer. McCoy is nothing but a stopgap and Wood is two years away at least and we have Ash and Brewer who are both hopefully better. Let’s cut ties if they want to move on.

I still think it’s not out of the question for GG to end up being serviceable. Maybe a serviceable backup is all he is meant to be. Let the kid with the upside play.

It is too soon to say. Thankfully, we still have two weeks of practice and two more scrimmages before game week. Let’s see what those two weeks bring. Things could change and any of them could get hurt.

I also don’t like “annointing” anyone since that hasn’t worked out too well for us. Let them continue to fight it out and play the winner.

If I had to say today, I agree with nobis, kafka and others who have predicted one of the older guys starting vs. Rice with Ash worked in with a special package of plays to ensure that he isn’t allergic to playing under the lights on Saturdays. Poor accuracy eliminates Wood first. I don’t think Case has or will develop the physical ability to play QB for Texas. So, start Gilbert unless he continues to stink it up.

Unless Ash can’t keep his lunch down on Game Day, I suspect the others are keeping the seat warm for him, My hunch is he is our guy by mid-season.

The best thing that can happen for whoever starts at QB is Malcolm and company runs, runs, runs. I’d gamble on Ash as much as possible, which is why ’m not a college FB coach. What the hell, expectations are near a low all-time level anyway.

Emmitt and his OL made a very good Troy look great.

If 5-7 isn’t good enough at Texas and 10 tds to 17 ints isn’t good enough at Texas then why count those things as a positive or even pretend like they are positives?

If Ash is the best performer then he should start, and if your scared like my Dad always says then you should bring your dog with you.

Look at it this way, if Colt McCoy can be a redshirt freshman in a GDGD offense where he got no real experience and come in and start and do as well as he did in a GDGD offense, then David Ash should have a real chance to thrive in the SinApple offense.

Every 2 bit college analyst will tell you that when you have 2 quarterbacks, you don’t have any. Looks like you have 4, but if the law is commutative then you still don’t have any.

It ain’t that easy trout. tannehill was sitting on the bench while jj was throwing ’em up to the defenses. you had two but turned out you had a pretty good one with some pt under his belt.

We need W’s. Put the guy who gives you the gut feel has the best chance at winning the ball game right now. Fuck transfers, broken hearts, etc. Just beat somebody out and be the man or sit down. The coach may make a wrong decision but that is his job, to make the decision he thinks will win the ball game.

The Drought:

Dallas’ offense made a very great Troy Aikman appear merely great. Aikman had picture perfect footwork, a strong arm, and uncanny accuracy. He was completing 65 percent of his passes in a timing offense that featured a lot of difficult throws like deep outs. He wasn’t asked to throw often, but he was a devastatingly efficient passer when called upon.

tweet news: someone got the majority of the first team reps tonight.

First of all, great article. I’ve been tweeting the shit out of it all day.

Next…

triple, I think this is what you’re talking about.

@Recruitocosm Watching Braveheart as I wait for the Asset’s follow up call after this text:“Ash got most of the first team reps tonight.” #Freedom!

If I can keep my eyes open I’ll write something up tonight. If not, it’ll be tomorrow, in which case, just reread Scip’s article and be patient.

I think the best case scenario if you’re going for the least feelings hurt of those who matter is to start Case with Ash as backup. The scenario I’d like most to see happen granted that the next scrimmage doesn’t utterly change this is for Ash to start and Case to be named second. I don’t want Gilbert to get anywhere near that field on game day.

God I love BC and Recruitocosm. Ash getting first team snaps at the very least says that this race is wide open and good performance has its rewards. Well done, Mack et alia.

I submit WhiteBrian as the new Co-coordinator name.

Just as you remember, Texas77. Even Royal referred to Bradley as the best athlete he’d ever coached. But the four ’68 INTs on Hargett were just balancing out the ledger…

I’d thought we’d righted ourselves in ‘67 until a long punt return ignited TCU to an 18-0 fourth quarter and a victory in our next to last game. So, I decided to head to Kyle Field for the Turkey Day game a few days later convinced we’d at least end with a win. If I remember correctly, it had rained heavily during the week and the field was slop. At any rate, Bradley threw four interceptions as the Ags prevailed 10-7.

I know we had a game where the home team was accused of watering down their field, and I believe that was it—on top of the rain. Part of Bradley’s QBing problem was small hands; in lousy conditions, he had poor grip. The sloppy field stopped our running game and forced Bradley to pass… in lousy conditions.

To top it off, I ran into a hometown buddy who offered me a ride home, I said sure. We had to wait for his other passengers to show. Turned out to be my high school girlfriend and her fiance. That completed the gloom.

JS – Don’t let Vegas beat you twice. Sleeep.

Mack went 5-7 last season. He repeats that he’s done. He can’t afford another Sherrod situation dividing the team this year especially not after all his, ‘This is my first year at Texas, too’ and ‘the team told me Colt was the guy back in 2006 and I’ll be listening to them this year too’ talk. Mack gets more rope playing Ash and failing than he does for failing while playing GG.

Agree.

Giving Ash 1st-team reps this week, at a bare minimum, tells the whole team: “Play well, and you’ll be rewarded. Play badly, and you won’t.”

This is a good thing.

I say name McCoy w/ Ash #2. I agree that it will be Ash’s time sooner or later. Wood will probably never see the field and I bet he would transfer anyway. As for GG, I think the K State game last year was it for him. I just can’t see him ever being anything more than he is right now. Even with a great OL and running game and a dominating D, a QB who telegraphs throws and takes 8 days to deliver them will get you killed. It’s simply time to move on.

This quality of analysis and writing is why Barking Carnival blows the doors off every other Horn site. Great insights today by Scipio, Toadvine, and jonestopten.

It will be interesting to see if Mack really learned anything. Scip reminds me not to draw conclusions based on who starts against Rice. So, I’ll give him until BYU. Somebody besides Gilbert needs to be getting ready for OU. I hope he has the guts to go with Ash. I’ll believe it when I see it.

Ash and Wood are the only two quarterbacks on campus that are talented enough to conceivably win a National Championship. They are the two that Texas has to make sure stays on campus. Gilbert is beyond repair from a mechanical, footwork, field vision standpoint, and Case is simply too limited physically. The coaches know that Case can’t be the long-term answer as the starter. If he is, you’re looking at a 9-3 ceiling for the foreseeable future.

Gilbert is beyond repair from a mechanical, footwork, field vision standpoint,

Really? I’m interested to know specifically what footwork and mechanical issues you believe Gilbert can’t overcome.

If Ash is better, then why would you start McCoy? It’s not like he has any meaningful game experience or any more familiarity with the offense than Ash. I’m pretty sure if his name was Chase Smith he’d be playing for Tuscola Junior College anyway.

Let me remind everyone to kindly observe the color of the quarterback’s jersey’s. There is a reason these guys wear a different colored jersey. That jersey is the reason you really don’t have any idea what you are getting in a QB until the games start.

Let’s be honest: if Harsinwhite is really making the call, the predictable QBs will be 1. McCoy 2. Ash.

By end of year, Ash will be running the show.

2 Qbs will xfer after that and we will go into 2012 with Ash, remaining QB and redshirt Brewer. End of story. (for tonight)

Earlier in the thread, Nobis60 said this of Case:

"No idea what’s going on there – I find it hard to believe that his technique is consistently that poor or that he hasn’t been schooled in the proper mechanics and how to step through a throw and I don’t want to say he’s scared of getting popped but something ain’t right."

Absolutely correct. Case is so far from being a legit major college starter that if he or his father believes otherwise, they’re being willfully blind.

That doesn’t mean they weren’t or shouldn’t have been angry at the way Case was handled last year. I’ve heard Brad was particularly pissed about it, and he should have been. Case got reamed, no question. And if he’s reamed in the same fashion this year, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if he and his camp pull up stakes next year.

But this year Case is being given a fair chance at winning the starting job. I don’t know the McCoys so of course I’m speculating, but I don’t see him as the kind of kid who takes his ball and goes home if he gives it his best shot in a fair competition and comes up short.

I think he stays even if Ash is promoted to starter during the season. We may get a chance to find out.

What do I do? First thing is decide what the position is. I would decide that in 2011, the Texas QB will not be asked to carry the team until the end of the 4th quarter of close games. No QB has shown signs of being ready to sling guns through a Big 12 game or season, so I won’t ask them to. The Texas QB job in 2011 will be to hand off, throw occasionally, but in situations set up for success. No wasted series where we throw on every down, unless the defense is getting ridiculous. In other words, I would go in planning to play Tressellball in 2011 (yes, I know our run game is not expected to be dominant).

I would then decide that player ratings should be factored off tenure, i.e. upperclassmen need to have real separation in performance to play over underclassmen. If Gilbert can execute the run-based offense better than the others, play him. If not, don’t. We’re only worried about transfers in 2011 due to injuries. If the QB only hands off and throws 20 – 25 times per game, the risk of injury is diminished (we’re not asking for Pat White or Colt McCoy running the ball in this offense).

Spens 2011 working on the running game and grooming a QB. Put the full offense in the following season. There is no guarantee we’ll have one in 2012, but at least this is a plan.

Eh… huh?

Mack cannot afford to send the wrong signal to his team again, right out of the shoot. If it’s clear to the players that GG is not the best performer leading into Game 1, Mack will again undermine team chemistry and his chances of rebuilding a culture of accountability that was absent last year.

“…[by naming GG the starter], Mack would again undermine…”

Dang edit button.

It seems the internet consensus is that Ash has all the tools and the highest ceiling. The smart play would be to start him from day 1 but look at the other guys if he struggles. I don’t know if it sets you up to win the most games this year or not, but it certainly does for next year.

As for last years JJ vs. Tannehill Qb struggle – Tannehill should have been playing in the FIU game as JJ had been struggling through camp and only held the job because he was the incumbent. We’ll have a battle for next years starter as both Joeckel and Showers look good. Manziel will likely redshirt this fall, but he’s kind of a wild card at this point.

I don’t understand the circle jerk around Case McCoy. Poor form. Weak arm. Unimpressive. Is it his bloodline, or have expectations dropped so low that he actually appears promising?

In Harsin I Trust.

One last question question – are Hoopleheads related to Mott the Hoople? Are they All young dudes?

case reminds me of major. major really knew what he was doing, and if he had more size and a better team around him — and thus better protection — no telling what he might have done. as it was, he was . . . well . . . major in the college game before his knee injuries.

case may never achieve major’s stardom because of physical limitations beyond any person’s control, but there is no question about his understanding of the game. if he lacks the physical tools to lead the team, i still wonder if he doesn’t present situational possibilities that harsinwhite will tap into.

Major threw a much prettier ball than McCoy does. The pick McCoy served up to Gideon was worse than GG’s, absolutely terrible decision and execution. If Blake Gideon picks you off, you know you done goofed.

I don’t see it at all with McCoy. Everybody is claiming he makes good decisions and understands the game, then we see him throw a timing route weakly off his right foot and late to the sideline after he’s avoided the rush and get picked off in the red zone. If Gilbert had done that he would be getting justifiably ripped for that decision.

And comparisons to Applewhite as a QB are way off, IMO. Applewhite had noticeably more zip on the ball at the same stage of his career. I’ve seen more wobbly duck interceptions waiting to happen from McCoy in one spring game and one scrimmage video clip release than I did Applewhite’s entire freshman year. Applewhite didn’t have a strong arm, but McCoy has a weak one as far as I can tell.

edit – And I see Mad Clapper made the same points while I was watching 1998 highlights to make sure I wasn’t crazy about the arm strength difference.

If Gilbert starts, it will be with Ash as a number 2, with an eye of setting Ash up for success. But I’d bet we’ll see something like McCoy 1, and Ash 2. You probably want Gilbert to go away anyway, and Wood is all but gone any way this shakes out. Then, if McCoy has something special in the context of this offense, it will come out. If not, you have a pretty good number 2 quarterback, and you go into next year with Ash, McCoy, and Brewer. I do think McCoy is going to find a way to win, especially in this offense.

So my money is on

McCoy
Ash, legit number 2 with his special package
Gilbert
Wood

And Gilbert and Wood transfer after the season. Ash may or may not take the lion’s share of the reps as we get further into this season.

kilgore, i got interested in your question. the band got its name from a ’60’s novel of that name, which featured a ne’er-do-well drifter, sometime freak-show employee, who the chicago tribune referred to as “A garganua. A clown, but not without nobility.” the author named his protagonist norman mott.

no idea where author manus got the name ‘mott’ or picked up the ‘hoople’ part, but a very popular comic strip in the newspapers for many years was ‘our boarding house’, which featured a bulbous clown of a man who hilariously saw himself as an important person, even though it was his wife that ran the nondescript establishment.

interestingly, in my poking about i discovered there was a canadian rock group in the ’70’s called major hoople’s boarding house.

major hoople was an icon of sorts in that generation and before, kind of a forerunner to the inspector clouseau / maxwell smart characters who achieved such success.

How does everyone here know what they would do when they haven’t seen these guys perform this summer any more than three or four highlights a piece on a couple of web sites? Amazingly talented bunch.

I’ll be the first to say that Mack has appeared clueless regarding the QB situation with input from GD, but I have to think the co-coordinator brain trust will straighten this out and go with the guy that can execute this offense. Maybe these guys don’t separate. Maybe there is a moment when one of them “gets it” and it is obvious. Hopefully Ash is getting it.

McCoy does have the innate ability to make plays. He is a good backup QB that deserves playing time. He may grow physically as he is only a Sophomore. He could be a very viable peice to the puzzle in a year or two if called upon or needed. Remember McEachern in a MNC title run year.

And btw, McCoy’s mechanics don’t help him at all. Colt had great mechanics and Case shows none of that. He would help himself immensely if he would get out of the bad habits I know these coaches have to be trying to fix, and get his footwork to hemp him eliminate these weak-ass throws.

thinking about it just now, i have no doubt cleese’s character in fawlty towers and the establishment itself was a brilliant knock-off of the comic strip. cleese’s characterization — while not bulbous, of course — was extremely similar to the major hoople character.

oh, i agree that major (applewhite, not hoople) was better at throwing than what i’ve seen from case to this point. i didn’t mean that major and case are clones but that major was limited by his physique but had the mind to be a great. similarly, i think if case were as physically capable as major, i think we’d see a lot more from him.

i only mean that both men really know what they are doing but that physical limitations prevent both from reaching their potential otherwise. i bet case will one day make a coach of distinction.

i agree, lonesome. in time case may find a role that will make a difference.

Actually, I think Kellen Moore might be a good comparison to Applewhite. Neither have good arm strength, but both are/were mechanically sound and pretty lethal with the deep ball. Vintage Applewhite would really thrive in this offense.

Ash is by all accounts the closest we have to a total package at QB. Hopefully,
the coaches feel the same but more importantly have the balls to make the call and
send the kid out there to start. I think the call would be a lot easier for the coaches if
DA was a RS frosh instead of just an early enrolee.

good post, bat. you see things sort of like i do, though case is going to have to step it up to do what you describe this year.

case strikes me as a harsin type guy, and i bet major can relate to a degree. if harsinwhite can mold him, i think he becomes a weapon.

also, bat, i saw a tweet from jeese that ash got the majority of first-string snaps in yesterday’s practice.

yes, clapper, major was a killer with his deep throws. hadn’t thought of the comparison with moore, but that’s a good point. i’d love to see vintage major in this offense.

Hoopleheads is also term used in Deadwood to describe the hoi polloi.

Kilgore Trout-

 J. Jhonson’s situation is completely different from the UT QB situation. J. Johnson was recovering from a shoulder injury that they kept relatively quiet. It does not suprise me that he struggled. The only reason that I can imagine that he was in those games was because it was the year he was playing for his salary. aTm owed him a shot, which he got, but as soon as it was obvious, he got the hook.

Regarding UT QB situation-
 
Why does everyone keep trumpeting the “build for next year” line. This is the single most stupid thing that the general consensus agree on. If you do not understand that Mack Brown’s interests are winning NOW and only winning NOW then you should quit posting. As fans, we have a year to comfortably rebuild. As the coach of UT football that most recently went 5-7, Mack Brown does not have a rebuilding year. I think that he is acutely aware of this fact.

With that said, I have zero clue who he is going to start and even less of a desire to form an opinion on who I think is the best option. As fans, we can only definitely say that we know Garrett Gilbert is recycled horse dung. We have seen a handful of plays from the rest of the QB’s and are trying to extrapolate future performance based on 5-10 plays for each QB.

I don’t buy the hype on Ash, simply because I don’t trust practice reports or general message board consensus. Many people on this site and others thought G. Gilbert was a world beater from January of 2010 to September 2010. You would also do well to remember the lessons of the past and not trumpet David Ash so hard based on a few practice reports and limited scrimmage footage.

The best scenario for the beginning of the season is to start anyone other than Garrett Gilbert because we already know that he is every level of unacceptable. Give any 2 of Wood,Ash,McCoy first team reps until gameday. Throw a starter out there, if he fails then move to the next one. If all 3 are worse than G. Gilbert then he is your starter and the fanbase at least knows that Mack tried but could not find a better QB on the roster.

i don’t watch tv, so i had to google deadwood. excellent observation, roma.

check this out: http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-hoo3.htm

Ok, I’m way too late on this, but life gets in the way sometimes.

I’ve tried getting through Game of Thrones twice now, and I keep getting bogged down. Nothing good ever happens, the good guys keep dying, and the assholes always win.

Sort like last season.

yeh, you are projecting things onto Case that he has shown no evidence of. Once again, in very limited data we have seen multiple bad decisions from him on when and where to throw the ball.

well, he has shown up enough in the scrimmage and the spring game to show some signs of life where some others haven’t. maybe that the source of my opinion. let’s see how this plays out.

How late can the loser(s) of this sweepstakes transfer and be eligible for next year? Is it based on whether they’re enrolled at UT when school starts, whether they’re on the team for the first game, or what?

regarding major hoople. ‘major’ wasn’t his name but was an adopted title. he wanted to be thought of as ‘military’. he projected an air of importance though all around him knew him to be of no consequence. had he been involved in college football recruiting, his name would have been ‘willie lyles’, and had he been a college football team his name would have been ‘fightin’ texas aggies’, if that helps set the picture for anyone.

like lyles and the ags, whenever he was found to be useful for someone, it was not in the capacity that he thought he was valuable.

Will helicopter dad Brad McCoy turn on Mack if Case is not designated no lower than #2?

Wait, is this a predictions thread? OK then, this arrangement has the most political stability, which means we’ll all read too much into it.

- Gilbert keeps “his” starting job. “Experience” becomes a euphemism for “interceptions.”
- Case is pencilled in at #2 and immediately becomes the pay-site favorite. 2nd and 3rd-string receivers blamed for his garbage time field fails.
- Ash sees the field in a sort of Q package, albeit one that’s worth a shit. Scipio switches from briefs to boxers on the advice of his urologist.

Then, events on the field dictate promotions/demotions between #1 and #2, and between #2 and #3. The real QB controversy will be next year, between Gilbert and Ash, and between the McCoy family and the coaching staff.

Capitalizing, LHN begins “In the House” reality show, which finally gets Connor on Longhorns’ TV screens, and the real QB decision is made by a freak hunting accident that goes viral on YouTube. “I didn’t seem him” becomes an internet meme in its own right, haunting the survivor through his remaining “experience.”

Pillow – you said everyone. Read my post well above. I repeat partially:

We need W’s. Put the guy who gives you the gut feel has the best chance at winning the ball game right now. Fuck transfers, broken hearts, etc. Just beat somebody out and be the man or sit down. The coach may make a wrong decision but that is his job, to make the decision he thinks will win the ball game.

BTW – major recruits hang in the balance of our success this season!!!!!

I do not care. I am only interested in what will give us the best chance of winning. If it is Ash play Ash if it is any of the other 3 then start them. Our team future is in the last 2 classes and the incoming class (2012) so play for 2 yrs from now. If Ash starts and wins then we have a head start on the future if he fails we will find out if one of the other qbs has it.

lahorns—

Mack Brown does not have 2 years. As I stated before, any depth chart resulting from “play for 2 yrs from now” logic is inherently flawed. A college coach that continually plays for 2 years from now is also unemployed. A UT coach playing for 2 years from now on the heels of a 5-7 season will likely be unemployed.

‘pillow’ is an interesting name. any relation to fort pillow? that is an incendiary name.

bobby burton said this just now: ‘I could be wrong, but I don’t think Garrett Gilbert is going to win the job. More convinced of that by the day.’

interesting that 247 hasn’t put up a review of yesterday’s practice either. bobby says he’s waiting to speak with someone.

coincidence?

Bartoncreek said:

August 15th, 2011 at 8:36 pm

If guys transfer that you feel are never going to help you win, who really cares? I really don’t understand the hand wringing.

GG doesn’t seem to enjoy the spotlight or the pressure, maybe backup suits him like it did his dad? There’s nothing wrong with that.

I say start Ash if we really believe he’s better. He is going to be the starter next year anyway. Get a year seperation between him and Brewer. McCoy is nothing but a stopgap and Wood is two years away at least and we have Ash and Brewer who are both hopefully better. Let’s cut ties if they want to move on.

+1, esp. the 1st sentence.

If guys transfer that you feel are never going to help you win, who really cares? I really don’t understand the hand wringing.

While I’m firmly in the camp of “win now and to hell with sacrficing some games this year in hopes it somehow helps down the road”, I think the concern is with the QB situation next year. If all three transfer that leaves you with Ash and Brewer. Problem is we’d like to redshirt Brewer and get two years separation between him and Ash. If he redshirts then Ash is the only QB next year. I personally doubt all three would transfer, but who knows.

“RomaVicta said:

August 16th, 2011 at 7:50 am

Hoopleheads is also term used in Deadwood to describe the hoi polloi."

SWIGGIN’, PLEBS, COCKSUCKA!

nunna, we used to have a qb named mceachern who was beat out by two other qbs. google him.

for huck:

“Case McCoy looked really good in his ones vs ones scrimmage work. We’re told he excels at checking into the correct play pre-snap, and then figuring out a way to deliver the ball where it needs to go. It’s not pretty, but it’s effective. In the screen game, McCoy was better than the other QB’s at delivering the short ball during scrimmage work.”

phooey, i just realized that wasn’t nunna but nunna was quoting joetx. sorry.

speaking of joe tex, he had advice on holding onto what you got:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzHK5VApBbU

but my favorite joe tex:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVKNdZxVDhg

“If guys transfer that you feel are never going to help you win, who really cares? I really don’t understand the hand wringing.”

These guys are young. They’re offered based on potential. A freshman or redshirt freshman remains a bundle of potential. Such was the case with VY. This isn’t the pros where you know people have basically reached physical maturity and have a resume of playing as an adult.

It’s not handwringing to want to keep some of this potential on the team. We may need it. Injuries on the downside and possible improvement on the upside (let’s say Case gets better mechanics and improves his long ball) are part of the college game. This balancing of judging what someone is doing today versus what they did before and what they may do in the future is one of the interesting aspects of the college game.

We’re in trouble if we have a sophomore starting QB and a true freshman backup.

The transfer(s) would not be until Spring according to Scipio. That is another reason for Mack to keep quiet about who starts until kickoff. By next Spring, we’ll effectively have 5 QB’s on the roster since Brewer’s LOI will have been signed. That’s too many—-at least one if not two need to leave, and it makes sense that the starter ans second teamer vs Baylor would be the two to stay, which would be opitimum, IMO. Then we can redshirt Connor, which is probably the plan, having a solid enough back up with room for the big dual threat guy everyone is talking about for 2013.

bobby burton just posted some interesting comments regarding the qb race. this is what i got out of his remarks:

This post is for members of Hookem247 only. Join now!

At some level, what really matters more than anything may be whether Mack has gotten over his paralyzing fear of having another qb controversy on his hands. He obviously hadn’t when Snead was here (not that it didn’t end up well, obviously) and I’m not sure I’m sold that anything has changed in that department.

Another point…is it just me, or does it seem like any time we promise a kid we won’t recruit someone else at his position, when that kid comes here, he doesn’t turn out to be all-world (Gilbert) or doesn’t even end up playing that position (Whaley). I’m just sayin…

Too bad ol’ Cleve ain’t around anymore…he’d be obvious choice for Hand of the King.

I think the concern is with the QB situation next year. If all three transfer that leaves you with Ash and Brewer

You are assuming of course that Brewer still decides to come to a school with an established returning sophomore QB with no possibility of red shirting. Essentially, Brewer would be here for 4 years with the probability of only playing one.

He might not think that is the best situation for his development.

unless he plans to beat him out. brewer is stout stuff, too.

Surely we could find a way to redshirt him over the next three years.

@ roach – Even in the unlikely event Gilbert, McCoy, & Wood all transfer, and Ash seems ensconced as the starting QB, Brewer would be crazy not to come. He’d be ONE play away from taking the reigns of the offense.

roma – “We’re in trouble if we have a sophomore starting QB and a true freshman backup.”

What makes you think we are not in trouble and trying to dig out after last year? We are in trouble if we have a Jr playing the way the QB position was played last year.

“What makes you think we are not in trouble and trying to dig out after last year? We are in trouble if we have a Jr playing the way the QB position was played last year.”

That has nothing to do with what I wrote.

i think there’s a better chance of Ash getting the job than you think. the consensus was he looked great in the summer, he had arguably the best scrimmage on saturday, and gilbert is still doing terribly. mack has said they’ll give the job to the guy that gives us the best chance, period. ash also has the best upside of any qb on the roster. he looks the part, he’s an accurate passer, and he’s makes good decisions with the ball.

i also don’t see how 2-3 qb’s transfer. whoever gets the number 2 will take it, and as far as the 3 and 4 are concerned, the odds they both transfer have gotta be pretty low as there are a number of reasons each of them might want to stay.

Anything further from Bobby Burton?

The starting QB will only be as good as that offensive line in the Harsinwhite offense. How is that O-line coming along? I see Gilbert starting as well with Ash working his way to starter very quickly.

Because of my lack of confidence in that line, I see Ash being injured due to his lack of adjustment to defensive speed on the rush (a freshman thing) and his ability to run the ball.

McCoy just might likely end the season as a starter. Gilbert is a number 2 QB, a solid solid number 2.

He can finish a game, but he cannot play from behind, I don’t care what type of offense you are running. He simply is not a play maker, and he’ll practice excellent, and be the best in practice….it’s all mental during the game. He cannot pull the team out of a hole.

I think it is just a much easier thing to have Gilbert under center and replace him if it goes badly in a more natural transition than to have to go to Gilbert when one of the other guys fails.

i will say this again. neither GG nor Case has what it takes to get us back a MNC. Ash won’t be able to do it as a freshman but we aren’t going there anyway regardless of who starts at QB this year. I would rather have Ash start and get in one full year of experience this year and be ready to rock and roll next year with an improved team.

regardless of who starts at QB this year i don’t see it making more than one game difference either way so why waste a year of play on either GG or Case?

“nunna, we used to have a qb named mceachern who was beat out by two other qbs. google him.”
mceachern sucked, mcbath and aune were both better…